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Why do you think some people have such an aversion to homosexualtiy, trans etc. Is it an innate almost like an unconscious reaction from our past or is it a learned thing from society and religion? Is it because for life to exist and evolve it all procreates from plants to animals and everything in between?

Aquaeyes 6 May 7
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0

An aversion to unnatural concepts may come from how messy the idea may get in the ideas of cleanliness for sodomy. We do know how many diseases can result in the colon. Then there is the accidents of doing the act. The cliché of packing chocolate so to speak or losing the chocolate uncontrollably. The idea of cleanliness is next to the deity is not unique to any one religion. It seems to be an abstract of disgust with the potential problems. In societies that practiced sexual acts more openly it was less taboo but you still ad the potential accidents that were just not cool to many people. Sexual pleasure is one thing but being defecated on was another problem.

The idea of altering the sexual identity from what it born into is relativity new. The idea of the girlie man and masculine females have been expressed in genetics for a millennia and we understand it from a hormonal concept. However, the idea of physically changing the sexual identity is relatively new. This makes it hard for a lot of people to understand why an individual may want to change from their natural born state by surgery. What people do not understand results in fear of the idea and hatred to spread. The idea that certain clog has specific definition for women and other clog for men has never set well with me since clog is the art of expression of the individual when one gets far enough in evolution of the individual's mind.

Native Americans recognized 5 sexes. Ancient Greeks celebrated homosexual liasons. Etc. NOT a new idea at all! Also your concept of the nature of sex between men is just creepy. And you ignore female love.....?.

Guess what a lot of gay men don't like anal that's just the hopes of the heteros fantasies !!

@AnneWimsey The cliche of gay females is subjective to fantasies of men and more socially acceptable up until the point of marriage in many cultures. This american concept of sexuality is problematic at best, even among atheists. How each identity sexual preference is their own. How it is celebrated or denigrated is the individuals involved. The ideas of what goes in which hole on either gender and who render service to those goals is subjective and has been put in many cultures globally. Many of the modern forms of our sexuality started after the black plague of Europe as a counter to the spread of disease(s). The time frame is constant across the globe in history and for many of the same reasons of diseases. It is where monogamy took off as a stoic idea. The religious ideals had authority and women's rights were nonexistent to define it more pragmatically.

4

Hatred of any kind must be taught. ?

I believe all emotions are good and natural if they exist in an appropriate context. Hatred of the act not necessarily the person. Hatred of racism is good. Hatred of the person is bad.

I have an ingrained hatred of asparagus!

@arnies were you abused by asparagus as a child ? Just askin' ... ?

@SimonCyrene yes maybe as an adult too

9

Not every organism engages in sexual reproduction. Not every sexually reproducing organism engages in exclusively heterosexual sexual interactions either.
As far as I'm concerned, hate is taught, not inherent. I think to suggest otherwise is to give hateful, ignorant people a pass for their beliefs.

Mea Level 7 May 8, 2018

Do you know of a society where alternate sexuality has been accepted as normal?

@Aquaeyes, unfortunately I cannot think of a society where "alternative" sexualities are widely normalized.
Although, more developed countries tend to be more accepting of sexualities other than heterosexual.

@Aquaeyes Most pre-Christian and native cultures are accepting of the range of sexuality not limited to Western culture’s pinched and narrow model. For instance, many Native American cultures recognized two-spirit people whom we might calls transgender. They would live in same-sex marriages which were respected like any other.

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I saw a videotape of a pheromone experiment.a while back. They did two tests.

In one they sprayed a gal liberally with male pheromones and another female liberally with female pheromones and unleashed 5 guys and 5 gals upon the victims to see what would happen. Pretty much what you'd expect: 4 of 5 guys went for the gal with the female pheromones, 4 of 5 gals went for the girl with male pheromones.

The second experiment is what you'd expect: they sprayed down one guy with a liberal application of male pheromones and another guy with a liberal application of female pheromones... and this test reflected the first: 4 of 5 guys went with the female pheromones, 4 of 5 gals went with the male pheromones.

In each case, they went where they were more attracted by scent.

Note that in each case they reacted with aversion to the opposing pheromone. 4 of 5 women were not pleased by female pheromones and 4 of 5 men were not pleased with male pheromones.

No, not a definitive test but it does imply that we are wired (that wiring may be hard or soft) to be attracted to one and not to the other... and thus if you see relationships that double down, if you will, on the one that you are not attracted to, you might not have the nicest reaction. Especially in a time when it's not the norm AND when elements of society promote poor reactions to same.

I say we are learning and will get to a place where we are allowed to like what we like and react in a 'ho hum' manner to that which we aren't particularly fond of. We just aren't there yet.

I have a poor sense of smell so I would probably go for the prettiest female whatever. 🙂

@Gareth I appreciate the humor, but pheromones, I understand, don't work in the normal 'smell' way... so, it's at least possible that you would detect the pheromones without detecting any odor... and, no, I am NOT an expert so, who knows, maybe I am so far off base, I a'm two games over. 🙂

1

When I was younger and still learning about my stances I had a lot of friends who loved reading novels about gay guys. I never understood the passion they had for watching two dudes get it on. I was grossed out by it. I had no problem with gay guys I just have no desire to watch two dudes go at it. I still don't quite get why women everywhere are so into it. I'm almost scared to mention that for me it is uncomfortable because when I said it to my friends they called me a homophobe. Like I actively am NOT against gays at all, and maybe it's because I'm asexual, but it just isn't something I like to think about or see. (Kissing and hugging and marrying sure spread the love but I don't want to see bedroom stuff)

Also for the people adverse to it as a whole I think it just comes down to "I never saw it(was shielded from it) it wasn't the norm. Therefore it is bad"

I am not against gays however like you I do not like to watch two men having sex. It makes me uncomfortable. But I do not know if this is some kind of conditioning but probably.

4

It's definitely learned. Homophobia and sexism are woven into our society so deeply we feel like its naturally occuring but the fact that societies that don't have those issues exist/have existed shows its not innate. Racism and zenophobia exist across societies so those are probably functions of our biology, though easily addressed by more open societies with a lot of exposure and education.

Thanks blindbird. Are you able to give some examples of societies that are as you described?

@Aquaeyes the ancient Egyptians had a very egalitarian society sex wise as did the ancient gauls. I seem to recall that african hunter-gatherer tribes were reported to as well. I've been trying to find an article I read once about societies in ancient india but I can't locate it on the web. It may be in one of my anthro books. Might take me a while to hunt that up.

As for societies that were accepting of homosexuality you need look no further than the Greeks, though many native american and middle eastern cultures were quite accepting of homosexuality as natural.

9

I saw a meme once that said; Homophobia, the fear that a man will treat you the way you treat women... I think that sums it up nicely.

Remi Level 7 May 8, 2018

Ha! Amazing.

3

Edit: forum software seems to be dropping the word Cath-o-lic at the moment. I'll edit them back in, but of they disappear again, that's why this doesn't make sense.

('th-in' and 'lo-ng' disappearing, too.)

You just have to see the panic that sometimes comes out of the Catholic Church over this: "Make it okay to be gay, and everyone will be gay. Who will make all of the babies then?" Catholicism has a problem with anyone who doesn't look like they're going to turn out to be breeding stock. It's figured out that it should put its gays in charge of PR and sends them to convents and seminaries. It hasn't figured out how it can use trans people yet, so it's still massively opposed. The reality check is that even If being LGBT+ suddenly became stigma free, the vast majority of the population would still be either straight or bi. Babies would still be made. But the Church loves a bit of drama almost as much as it loves hoarding wealth.

Everything else stems from how this religious fixation with breeding projects into everyday society. We've come along in leaps and bounds, but so many LGBT+ people are still in closets, for fear of how others might react. Religion generally doesn't teach that you shouldn't have any same sex interest, it just teaches that it's temptation from [insert devil figure here] and must be resisted. I saw an interesting documentary about Mormon men who openly admitted to same sex attraction while striving to be practising heterosexuals. It's the action rather than the desire that's the sin, apparently. Once again, religion gets its way, it gets those people breeding, and puts future generations of bums on pews. It's not the temptation but the failure to resist that makes you a bad person.

There are plenty who are fighting those demons. The strongest homophobia tends to come from people who have homosexual urges themselves, and who either indulge them in secret and feel the need to smokescreen, or resist while secretly envying those who give in to temptation. And that's the story behind many a US anti-gay politician who gets caught with his trousers down with a younger male aide.

I believe everyday homophobia and transphobia stem from the fact that most people are potentially bi, and after a few drinks, with the right person, would go both ways if they'd let themselves. Of course you do get a handful who are at the binary ends of sexuality, but I suspect for most, there's an element of resisting temptation to deviate from their chosen binary path (and homosexuals get this just as much as heterosexuals - they're under similar pressure to conform from their community that straight folks are from society/religion.)

Yes, there's an element in male homophobia of predatory men not liking the idea that they could be prey. Meanwhile, a lot of transphobia comes from the unsettling conflict they discover in being attracted to the feminine presentation, while being revolted by what's probably underneath it.

The way I tend to look at it...
Homophobia: fear that you might fancy them.
Transphobia: fear that, after a couple of drinks, they might fancy you.

Even if 100% of the population were gay the evidence indicates that there would be babies made. Folk want babies, not just sex. Not all folk, but enough.

3

They secretly love cock

4

I think the ones who seem to hate it the most have a little too much interest in it so get loud about it to hide their real feelings. I am not interested or bothered about a person's sexual orientation.

2

I think it's partially a society thing, but also maybe just a little bit too much thinking about other people's intimate sexual moments. What I would say to someone wondering about that is this: No matter what your sexual preference is, do you actually look at every couple you see (hetero or gay) and imagine them in bed? Not likely - it isn't your business. Let people love in the way that feels right to them and mind your own love life.

3

I have no idea dude. What 2 concenting adults do in the privacy of their home is not my business and shouldnt be any others either.

Proto Level 6 May 8, 2018
2

a lot of it is cultural--some religious--some peer pressure--some afraid to confront their own sexuality--we have a lot more pressing problems than who people choose to love or have a relationship with

0

Probably a variety of reasons.
Most based on fear, misguided ideas of gender, religion, latent homosexuality manifesting/projecting.
No simple answer really.

1

Some of it may just be surface, peer-group hate-mirroring, but when people are homophobic on a deep, emotive level I generally assume they are in conflict with their own inner homoerotic feelings.

1

Society sets social norms. Consider the ancient Greeks...homosexuality was accepted by society and therefore individuals accepted it as well. People are generally sheep who will go along with whatever behavior they perceive everyone will accept whether harmful to others or not.

0

Good question, there must be some research on this somewhere. I'd think a combination of factors, but I expect more familial/societal than innate. that's just a layman's observational conclusion, but I've seen attitudes change over the last 60 years, & I know historically that gays were more accepted in some cultures more than others, so that's my take. From the outside, so to speak, so someone gay may have a different viewpoint.

0

I would think a lot stems from religious view that merged into society. I live in Florida 10 years ago my home town was country and there was maybe 1 or 2 gay kids in school. Of course they were picked on as such things back then were taboo, now times have changed and it's more accepted by society as a whole but some still carry the views of their parents or older siblings. A majority of people are always going to be standoffish from someone than has a completely different view on life and how it should be. To be honest I didn't want to even associated with someone who was gay or other preference when I was younger but now I have 1 homosexual friend and 3 bi/lesbian friends some people will realize they are still human beings with their own rights and other will always look down upon them. As far as plants and animals are concerned we are still part of the animal kingdom so I would think that it is probably hard wired to a majority of people due to if everyone was gay/trans ECT. their species would most likely die out, but there is a case of a lizard I do believe it indigenous to Australia that is only female and reproduction is stimulation by another lizard rubbing them in the right spot, point being I think regardless life will always find some way to continue, but for all of nature the #1 rule is preservation of your kind so I would think the workings of this world would play a major role in peoples thoughts

1

Not surprisingly, the most religious of societies have the least tolerance of human sexual behavior that does not conform to the standards of their particular faith. These groups teach the young that these behaviors are abhorrent and should be met with severe punishment. Therefore this hatred is learned behavior. We don't grow up hating by nature, but rather by the influences of our particular environment.

1

From what I've observed, the more homophobic a person is, the more likely they have homosexual tendencies and scared to admit them.

2

Learned/societal. Consider the three major forms of Buddhism. Although homosexual activities may be in one degree or another considered sexual misconduct, there is no general consensus regarding issues of the LBGTQ community and one is referred to the third precept which basically says: Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct: I undertake the training to refrain from using sexual behavior in ways that are harmful to myself and to others. I will attempt to express my sexuality in ways that are beneficial and bring joy.

A general conclusion may be drawn that homosexuality appears to be not an issue in many cultures and religions. On the other hand, Abrahamic religions in general are against homosexuality and the opposition covers a broad spectrum from simply trying to discourage people from engaging in such behaviors to actual execution. Contrast that to the "savage" indigenous peoples of the Western Hemisphere who had an entirely different view of acceptance and in some instances actual reverence. The Two-Spirit concept was a general notion on both the North and South American Continents.

All cultures have come to us through the long process of evolution, so it is quite apparent that views on sexual identity have arisen mainly through cultural worldviews and those have been strongly influenced by the dominant religions of their various regions. I think my personal testimony can help underscore this: I was taught as a young child that there are multiple ideas about sexuality in the world, but that all people are people nonetheless. That is to say, however a person identified themselves was unimportant, but how they conducted themselves was. I am a straight male, but have never developed any negative opinions about those who identify in other ways. Outside of my home, I was of course exposed to all sorts of prejudices, but happily my home education prevailed.

5

Other people sexual preferences is none of my business....

0

I think this might be partly nature but mostly nurture. I think that if the nature component was strong then we wouldn't have the acceptance of non-straight sex that we have in some places today. And I suspect that there are a few people who are incapable of accepting anything but the 'norm'. So this leaves Nurture.

Imagine the chief and religious leader of a large tribe. The crops have done well and the men are mostly content. They have their wives at home looking after the house and kids and they themselves have time to socialize and form close bonds with their male friends. Some of these relationships become sexual and the pressure on the lady of the house to share her bed becomes less in some households and these women aren't making babies every year.The leader notes the trend and realizes that the population of his tribe could fall while the population of the neighboring tribe steadily increases.

As the political leader he is able to influence the social behavior of the group and as religious leader he is able to pronounce the wishes of the god(s).
Enhancing the importance of the family and making homosexuality taboo along with masturbation might be seen as an answer and if it works or seems to work, I guess, would embed prejudices in th population eventually

5

I am clearly missing the gene, seeing people happy and in love seems to me far more preferable than other possible outcome. As adults we learn to accept that everyone is different...everyone. There are billion ways to be normal. So be happy when you see adults in love in whatever form it comes in.

6

Homophobia is the direct result of someone who is deeply in denial of their own homosexuality. It's the classic case of someone hating most what they can't stand in themselves.

This is why you always see these anti-homosexuality preachers getting caught in a parked car by the police trying to pay some male prostitute for a blowjob.

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