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I was thinking about the whole cyberpunk concept of transferring the contents of a person's brain into a computer.

Each morning when I wake up, there is no question that I am the same person that I was the day before, albeit one day older. There is a mental continuity there.

Let's say that through some mix of art and science, they figure out how to transfer the entire contents of a person's mind into a computer. If the contents of my mind were read on my deathbed and transferred, would there be that same sense of continuity after my body died and my computer self was turned on?

Would I see myself as me, even though my senses were different? Or would i know the whole thing was just a mash up of wires and circuits, and not me at all?

And really, in the final analysis, would I still be me at all?

Robotbuilder 7 May 29
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"San Junipero" from Black Mirror explores this topic. It's a great episode. The best episode from Black Mirror in my opinion. Dying people can transfer their "selves" into a computer system with other willing participants. You remain the same age forever and still play out life as you would in your old body. It's a forever thing though. Or for however long the system holds up.

This topic has been done a billion times in film and literature. I watch the show Westworld, which I think is amazing and possibly the best show ever. I just love philosophical topics though. The main characters of the show are programmed robots who begin to become sentient and question everything. Every week I'm intrigued to see where it goes. The last episode of the show, if it's the same writers and actors, should be a mind blower if they do it right. A human man on the show asks another woman if she's real. She responds with, "If you can't tell, does it matter?".

I would think unless there is some type of tweaking in your memory, then you would know there is a break in continuity in terms of your body and appearance etc.

I guess if you are programmed to think or see or believe something, or if the replacement "reality" was so detailed and good, then you wouldn't know the difference.

What if we are the equivalent to "robots", but the way we're programmed, we see our wires and fluids as veins and blood etc?

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If you copied your mind into a computer, would the computer you start screaming "You've transferred the wrong one, I'm the human, noooooooooooo" and would have to live an eternaty believing that it was the real you trapped in a computer while the copy was enjoying your human form.

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You know how animals are hard wired at birth to be instinctively like their parents. The offspring knows a little something they didn't have to be taught. That would be us after the transfer to the computer. A whole different ententy...but not us.

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First off the concept of transferring the consciousness creates a break in the continuity. You would die, a fax is not the original. This same concept is true with teleportation, each time you were teleported you would die and v2, 3, 4, 5 would be created completely unaware that your first consciousness has died and the new one would continue to exist.

Secondly, you are not the same person you were yesterday. At a celluar level the body recreates cells on a regular basis, many portions of you are 100% new from when you were born. The brain creates new connections based off of experience, some weigh in hard, others are light. Either way your response and reaction to some items are different based on experience, look at PTSD. It's an extreme version of this, but the reality is there. Learning to ride a bike is not muscle but muscle control, which happens in the brain. The inability of a computer to change in this way would create a permanent version of you that would no longer develop (assuming the computer was similar to those that exist today).

Lastly, it would be impossible for you to see yourself as you want to be. There is a good chance that you would not be able to mentally cope with the transfer. How do you feel hunger? Do you need to sleep? Do you feel sexual desire? Most of those feelings are a chemical release which no longer exists. You may be similar on day 1, but within a week I'd bet you'd be looking for death as most of what makes a human, you can never hope to do in a computer or machine.

Transferred to a new biological body may work, but you'd still die in the process and v2 would continue to exist.

You're right about craving for physical things. Sex, food, sunshine etc. Gonna have a few beers tonight, oh wait, no I'm not, never again. I agree, most people wouldn't last a week before formatting their own drive.

@TheMiddleWay I disagree, during transmission an electronic file is not sent in its whole form, it is broken down before being transferred. At that point you would die. A "dreamless sleep" is not equivalent to transferring a consciousness from one point to another.

Most buddhists have claimed to achieve a desire free state, well that's great. We also know that the human body cannot live without food and water. In addition I think you are not properly understanding the difference between controlling your desire and not having access to any. It is not the same thing and I'm betting that at one point we will transfer our consciousness into a computer and my bet is that the computer will lose its humanity fairly quickly.

@TheMiddleWay Ok, I think I see the angle you're getting at. My answer would unfortunately rely on the interface used upon waking. Could you theoretically fall asleep and wake up in a machine and not see a difference? If it was a virtual environment like the Matrix, I think yes. If it was a machine in our world, I'd say no. At our current level of tech I think you'd realize immediately.

@TheMiddleWay There's a theory that the computer power we consider to be "quantum" is still very far from being able to mimic the human brain. Data storage and single core processing power are one thing, but data intake is not rivaled in biology yet.

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It's hard to know since we don't yet know exactly what consciousness is. I've wondered the same thing watching Star Trek, when they beam somebody down to a planet. Is there continuity there, or is one consciousness "lost" and replaced with a duplicate consciousness? Could that person even tell the difference given that that reconstituted "self" has all the same memories?

godef Level 7 May 29, 2018
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Who know's the phantom know's.

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Are you the same person you were ten years ago? Five years ago? No. And yet you're still you.
Continuity of experience, in my estimation, is what matters. A change in senses doesn't mean you become someone or something else, just ask someone who's gone deaf or blind, or developed synaesthesia. Even the brain can change--the person whose brain it is is still, in their experience, the same person.

Transhumanism is a ways off, though, so we still have loads of time to philosophise about it.

Every few years Dr. Who has an episode where all the old incarnations of the Doctor get together. Each incarnation has is own memories and skills, and different personality.

And looking back, that certainly applies to me. 20 or so years ago, I was an expert silversmith: I would get sheet silver, wire, and so on, and with a butane torch would make all sorts of rings. If you went to me now with all those supplies and asked me to make something with them, I'd just shake my head. I remember doing it, I remember some of the things I used: easy solder, hard solder, and quench, but that's it.

Come to think of it, I wonder what that guy from 20 some odd years ago would think of me if he met me now. I am certain he would not be impressed.

Of course, all of those memories could just be thetan implants from Xenu, but I digress. 🙂

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I believe we'll find out in the next 10 years.

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Interesting question. There’s a short but fascinating novel on Kindle which delves into this very topic. It’s entitled “The Staggering Implications of the Mystery of Existence” by William Fleming.

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No it's just a copy . The copy may think it's you but will never be you . It's a bit like triggers broom ...[foolsandhorses.weebly.com]

What an amazing coincidence. He has the same name you do. 😉

@Robotbuilder Amazing isn’t it. I don’t know if it is me or not—hell, I don’t know who or what I am.
Anyway, I notice the book is rated five stars. It’s a wild success with two downloads, one each by me and my daughter.

We aren’t supposed to use this forum for hawking goods. I don’t propose that anyone buy the book. I’m just saying it’s there.

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My Penis disagree I am just my mind. Now, I am not afraid of dying. Same individuals that claim there is nothing else at the other side of passing are the same ones that want to be transfered to computers and robotic machines. What an irony and lack of guts in facing reality of existance!

@daylily I am here for the whole experience, you afraid of dying? Become a zombie, you can walk from ocean to ocean.

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For some reason I find these discussions irritating and pointless.

Human emotions, which emanate from our brain also produce physiological effects around the rest of our body and vice versa. It is a case of body and mind interconnected. This is fundamental.

So transplanting a mind into a machine becomes insanely naive. It will cease to be the same mind and can never be equivalent to a human mind because of this missing interaction between flesh and thought. And also... What's the point of it?

You've made some excellent observations. So much so that I will have to abandon that idea and place it in the same category as ghosts, ESP, UFOs, facilitated communication and so on.

In other words: thank you for correcting me.

@Robotbuilder

Now I feel bad. Sorry. 😟

@Ellatynemouth don't feel sorry for changing someone's mind

@TheMiddleWay not much difference at all just see my other comment about Trevor's broom

@Ellatynemouth I made an error. You corrected it. I'm better off now. No reason to feel sorry.

Too many times I have seen people on the internet hang onto their pet ideas for dear life, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. There's no learning or growing in that.

@TheMiddleWay

You have a point, but there is still a fundamental difference.

Machines are not born like humans are.. They don't grow and get old and die like humans do either.

@TheMiddleWay

That sounds interesting.

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