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LINK Sheeple: Stanford Prison Experiment: why famous psychology studies are now being torn apart  - Vox

This says lots of things about group behavior and what we want to believe and who we choose to believe

16 comments

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Once mentioned prison I stop from linking. Prison is not a cross section of the population!

the study was about having college students mimic a prison, and how power dynamics change peoples behavior. it wasnt done on prisoners or any captive population

@sarahjustme Okay, college students are not a proper cross section of the actual population. I know many people never wanted to attend college. Not motivated or already on life circumstances stoping them from going to school. The word "mimic". Let's play a roll you guys may had never experienced or currently properly don't understand? He, he, he, ha, he.

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This article has some merit, but it misses badly in a few areas. One of the reasons the old studies made it into texts was because the statistics necessary to appropriately analyze the data had not yet been designed. Others got into books because they were exciting and compelling. Any individual study can be supported or not supported by future replications.
Another big problem is the time it takes from turning in a book manuscript to a publisher and the publication date. It's usually about two plus years. Add that to the time it took to write the book and they are always out of date ON the publication date. As a textbook author in social psychology and professor, I can tell you it's really frustrating. I just would go through and point out the problems with the studies.
As for whether or not psychology is a science -- a science is defined by its methods, not its subject matter. Because you are working with people you need hundreds of participants in studies and sophisticated statistics to help determine whether the hypothesis (or hypotheses) are supported. Nothing is proven with one study. Over time you get a preponderance of the results either supporting the hypotheses or failing to support. It's an ongoing cycle.

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I have a skeptical notion about that article! I have always understood the social sciences, to be ‘in-exact sciences,’ so information for them, is always evolving. I have a faint rememberence on these studies and many many more (details foggy now). To me they are just a ‘point,’ in time and I leave myself open for whatever the next studies show. That article took too many studies and down played them, when they are only a starting point and I can’t believe all were somehow bogus! They were however, specific individual’s perspectives! Everybody has one!

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If you think about it from a psychological warfare perspective more comes into focus. If you want to be the biggest bully on the block psyops is the way to go. Gaslighting, driving people crazy works. Somewhere along the way someone decided to fight fire with fire (instead of water Duh) so now we have healers using mental flame throwers as medicine, and sure it actually works in most cases. I started outlining a book 2 years ago called Memory Topography I doubt I will ever finish, not enough interest, that would supplant psychology while incorporating some of it's terminology to help illustrate actual processes between the will and biochemistry.

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Psychology is not a science. Get over it. It is a respectable form of woo-woo. Some of it works in some settings (think of the designers of torture) but on balance, dismissed by serious scientists.

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Can’t open link smile003.gif

[vox.com] if you see an ad, just scroll down

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Science is compromising itself. Such a pity.

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Nice to know.

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Imagined orders: money - corporations - government - religion

The imagined order is an inter-subjective order that exists in the shared imagination of millions of people. Things like any monetary system, the idea of human rights, or the United States of America itself exist as inter-subjective realities.

The imagined order shapes our deepest desires, how we view ourselves and world around us. We believe the fictional realities of our culture because we are born into it. “If you don’t think your money is real, give it to me.” Well yes, but it is only useful because of the inter-subjective belief of all of the other people within the system.

The imagined order is embedded not only in the desires of a single person, but of countless people. It is an inter-subjective order that exists in the shared imagination of millions of people, but it probably started with the coming together of related tribal groups of humans in places like Göbekli Tepe, Turkey. Creating large shared fictional realities resulted in rapid innovation of social behavior resulting in, or related to, the development of agriculture and towns and cities.

The vast information capacity of human language seems to have evolved so that we could talk about other humans (i.e. gossip) and to screen potential mates for intelligence. Sexual selection is a driving force for quick changes in species. The guy who could sweet talk the most smart females into having sex with him got to pass on his genes.

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People find it difficult to understand the idea of ‘imagined orders’ because they assume that there are only two types of realities; objective realities, and subjective realities. In fact humans have evolved to create intersubjective orders based on their beliefs.

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Very interesting article.

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Modern psychology is in a mess. Reliant on "tick a box" assessments and associated drug experimentation.

And online surveys! SO many studies in the last decade have gotten their info by administering online surveys! smile003.gif

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Many dietary studies, such as the one about salt, are equally flawed because the prison demographics do not tell the correct story for the actual population.

and the oh so common tendency to only publish the desired results, and suppress the rest

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grrrr at people who try to politicize everything. and thats not about any one group or side-of-the-aisle

But he does have a point. We see the same thing in universities. Since the liberal viewpoint predominates, the conservative viewpoint whither. Thus, there is a lack of balance which leads to universities becomes "safe space" kindergartens instead of a thriving ideological battleground where kids become adults by honing their skills on what used to be neutral ground.

I notice this in transgender studies, where the liberal viewpoint dominates over the scientific one, as exemplified by giving hormone drugs to children with no studies showing it's safe and opening transgender schools for kids as young as 3 even though again, there is no science behind those effect, just a liberal mindset that acquiesces everyone's desires with no respect for the lack of science or the possible long term effects their po

It's really not about politics. It's about ideology. And I agree, the liberal ideology predominates in the social sciences and that makes them unbalanced.

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Excellent post!

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Are we better or worse than we thought?

id vote for worse... people overestimate themselves, thats one of our hallmarks

Neither for sure. We don't know as much about ourselves as we thought.

Far worse considering that we make often make government policy, social policy, and economic policies based on said studies.

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