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What should we do with Republican atheists/non-believers?

Today, one of our active (assumed) Republican members was driven off the site after shouted down by liberal members. This saddens me. His posts, while contrarian to the majority of opinions here, were well constructed and intended to create discussion. However, the theme of many of the opposing comments were of the "Trump is bad, you're a member of a political party affiliated with Trump, therefore you and any of your opinions are bad" variety. Should we add an 11th "principle" on our "About Us" page saying "... and must agree with every plank of the Democratic party or you're not welcome here"? I want to stay neutral and simply provide a platform for non/un-believers to feel safe from religious trolls. I'm I naive? Maybe. I'm making this post to hear from you to learn more, thanks!

anonymous 7 Jan 22

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26

I've had my feeling hurt here a couple of times and I lay low for a couple of days and don't comment. I really believe in standing up for what I believe in while not attacking the messenger. When the majority actively argue against what a person believes then that person might view it as a personal attack because those on the other side are overwhelmingly negative and in such numbers. That still is not ad hominem. If on the other side of the coin, there is a belittling attitude or personal degradation that is. I don't know the circumstances that you speak of, but I guess we need to be more careful in how we word posts. On the other hand I would hate to see politics banned from debate. If I knew that most everybody disagreed with me on one subject then I would not discuss that one subject. If I were to post things that I knew to be inflammatory to the majority, then would I not be a troll? That, to me, is what Christian trolls do. I'm glad it is you guys that have to deal with this more than me. I really appreciate what you do and how much you care. I hope this makes sense.

gearl Level 7 Jan 22, 2018

I post about free will being an illusion and it seems most people disagree with me. I know it to be true though, so it doesn't really affect me.

Thanks for your comments!

Gearl, I think we agree often. I know I've liked some of your comments and vice versa.

@JeffMurray could you expand on your belief that there is no free will? I disagree with you at first blush, but I'm interested in hearing your views on the subject. Maybe there's a philosophical corner I haven't thought arkund on the subject. Thanks.

Really thoughtful reply

@DobbinPitch Basically, you have zero conscious control over what you think, from what features or gender you're attracted to, to the next thought that pops into your head, to flavors you find pleasurable or repulsive, and whether or not you find propositions reasonable or nonsensical. Your brain, (specifically your subconscious) is like a black box with an extremely complicated algorithm. When faced with a decision it weighs potentially millions of bits of information (from the entirety of your human experience) and coupled with the physical and chemical composition of your brain it "spits out" an answer into your conscious mind. Most of the time you may be able to give rationalizations for why you 'chose' said option, but ponder the times you couldn't. When someone says, "Why did you pick that" and you say you don't know you just did. Also, think about the times we say someone "went crazy" or "had a chemical imbalance" or even view their decisions through the filter of "they have a brain tumor or brain injury" that renders them unable to control their thoughts or actions. And that's just the beginning, the stuff that everyone has a little experience with or knowledge of. (There's also scientific experiments that back up the claims.) I don't really do the argument justice, though. If you're really interested, I'd give Sam Harris' book Free Will a read. It'll take you a couple hours. The best part is that you won't have any choice whether or not to accept his argument. (The first half of the book I was actually saying aloud, "This is such bullshit." Then it clicked. And clicked again even harder when I realized me believing was another layer of proof that I have no choice considering I actively didn't want to believe free will was an illusion.

@JeffMurray excellent reply, man! Thanks! I agree with the majority of what you say, with the caveat that about 94-96% of our decision making is made by our subconscious, but there still is a little bit of 'us' in the driver's seat. We can expand that ability by trying to be hyper-aware of what is really going on inside our skulls, but I agree that the majority of 'free will' is pretty much a joke because of our subconscious programming. We will always fall for the people that best fit our programming... we can only hope to find the one that is healthiest for us over all. Thanks for your response!

@DobbinPitch What do you think that 4-6% is? Why would you think that most everything is out of our control with an illusion that we are, but not think that maybe the last bit is also an illusion?

@JeffMurray I guess I think that because I am aware of myself and my internal discord, and the two are exclusive, though the one, my Me, is heavily influenced by the other if I let it have free rein. Cogito ergo sum, I believe the phrase is. The fact that I am Aware tells me that I am here. I understand that brain chemistry can erase or alter that, but for the moment, I AM HERE. I AM AWARE. I DO HAVE A CHOICE, however small that may be. If I choose to end my life today, ultimately that choice is mine, in spite of the brain chemistry and/or bad programming I received as a child... the fact that I have chosen not to end my life, every day, a conscious decision, over and over, made daily by me, simply because I have found some small thing of beauty that allows the tiny little insignificant decision-making part of me to say, 'okay, that's worth another day', that right there tells me that I am not entirely a passenger trapped inside the gray cheese that sits between my ears. I am not wholly autonomous... but neither am I wholly automaton.

Thanks for the discussion. The world needs more thoughtful humans. Well done, sir. Keep thinking

@DobbinPitch But why is that decision different than any other? Couldn't it just be that your subconscious has yet to find the requisite input or biochemical/physical "abnormalities" that would spit out the answer 'kill yourself'? By your rationale, any decision could/would be under the control of the conscious mind. If you replace "end my life" with "eat chocolate ice cream" or "go to work" wouldn't it be the same thing?

Extremely well said. This pretty sums up my thinking on it:

"If I knew that most everybody disagreed with me on one subject then I would not discuss that one subject. If I were to post things that I knew to be inflammatory to the majority, then would I not be a troll? "

22

Let them stay. Most of us don't agree with their politics but if they are agnostic or atheist it would be interesting to see how they justify supporting someone like Trump.

Read the OP again, you might have done exactly what was criticized.

@hlfsousa Respectful disagreement is fine. It is totally legit to ask someone why or what makes them believe something. What was criticized was something else entirely.

@shockwaverider I am not a US citizen, so be lenient on context. It seems that you are conflating being Republican with supporting Trump, and concluding that because one supports Trump they must be wrong. Then your interest would be in seeing the mental gymnastics, not real dialog. Where did I go wrong?

@hlfsousa Ahh, ok. Your assumption is reasonable although incorrect. I am sure there are many Republicans who do not support Trump for many different reasons, so I am not conflating Republican and Trump supporter. I really want to know how someone, without the flimsy shield of religion that is often used, comes up with a cogent argument for supporting Trump.

17

I would not like it if this site became politically biased.

well i see a very big political bias here leaning toward the extreme left that won't accept facts about anything unless it lines up with their own stance. ive even had posts removed that are in no way attacking or disrespectful just for the simple fact that i don't follow the extreme lefts BS and i point it out. its best to just stay quiet cuz even the admins seem to have bias that will always lean to the extreme left cuz that is the majority here. the left has become nothing but echo chambers that won't allow any dissenting opinion to be discussed most of the time. its bad when u have to censor the world cuz of adult children who get offended but turn around and offend anyone that don't fall in to their group. the left wanting to silence trump supporters is one great example. they can dish it out to trump but want anything that shows why trump was better than hillary shut down cuz they know the truth even tho they don't like it. i think trump is horrible but at the same time i can see many reasons why ppl would take him over hillary and none of them are sexist but instead actual facts to the criminal empire that is the clintons. we had 2 criminals to pick from so u can't hate ppl for seeing one side as worse than the other when both are horrible to begin with.

Hillary was not on the left. She favored continuing to import very cheap products to close any remaining US factories and terminate the workers, (are there any left?), would tell the truth about what she believed, to the bankers, for 225,000 dollars a talk, but not to the public for free of course, she took the crucial step of moving enough Democrats over to the G W Bush / Rumsfeld side to bomb and invade Iraq, killing in total - including Iraq War 1 and between the wars about 2 million people, but mainly poor people so that's OK, Bombed Libya, showed her sadistic side there, she's a greedy multi millionaire,

I'm on the Left and I have never seen anything of the left in anything she's done.

Maybe she's a liberal.

14

I think just as a general principle, it's better to be more inclusive than exclusive. I can easily see that Republicans, theists, and especially Trump supporters would feel unwelcome here, but I don't think they should be excluded as a rule. I'm very curious to read the post and shoutdown. Perhaps this is more about behavior than it is ideology, although I do suspect that people in those groups tend to think and make statements (and argue) without much reason or logic.

bingst Level 8 Jan 22, 2018

I would like to see that post too.

You think inclusive is better but joined agnostic.com? This was partially intended to be a dating site so people could find "like-minded" people.

@JeffMurray I think more inclusive is better. I will make an exception to booting contrarians off the site. 😛

@bingst Can we boot people who don't understand irony?

@JeffMurray I got your stab at irony, but it is misplaced, as this whole discussion is within the context of this site. That is, should we exclude Republicans from this community?

@bingst Precisely. We are ALREADY being intentionally exclusive. If the vast majority of this community wouldn't want to look at believers as potential mates (and it seems as though the same is true for Republicans and specifically Trump supporters) I don't see why continuing on our path of exclusivity is in any way wrong or incongruent with who and what we are.

13

Respectfully, I don’t understand your concern. If your sadness is because some members had to experience ideas they were uncomfortable with, then I don’t see a problem; they knew how to deal with it, and took care of it.

If you are sad because a member was driven away, then why is your question “What should we do with Republicans?” Maybe it should be “What should we do with people who drive members away?”.

Is the underlying principle of this site to promote tolerance, or to shelter people who share our worldview, no matter how poorly they behave in other ways?

skado Level 8 Jan 23, 2018

Yeah, I should have written the question differently - good point. My sadness was more that I was hoping we could recruit some atheist Republicans who could help deprogram the "religious right". Now, if a Republican ever says they believe in science, they're demonized as a liberal. I admin that I'm learning the ropes here. It might be that for the secular movement to flourish, it has to shun Republicans.

@Admin All the secular movement needs to do to flourish is to meet people’s needs better than the competition does. Religious people are not opposed to science. They are opposed to having the only worldview they know taken away from them, the way science is slowly and painfully doing. Science itself however, is not a worldview; it’s a method of describing the natural world in objective terms. That’s useful as far as it goes, but humans also have a subjective experience of life which objectivity alone does not address. A worldview must be more than a basketful of unrelated facts, no matter how accurate. It must also guide people in how to live, how to reconcile their differences, and how to find peace of mind in a world of heartless competition and material hardship. It must show people how to reconnect with meaning, rather than telling them that there isn’t any, and they don’t need it.

The general public will not soon, in any great numbers, exchange their security blanket for the absence of a security blanket, but they would make the exchange in droves if they could turn in their tattered, two thousand year old security blanket for a fresh 2018 model that worked better. Think about this. The competition has brick and mortar training centers in every town with a population greater than a hundred people, and one on practically every corner in large cities. People don’t go to those places because they don’t have anything else to do on Sunday morning. They go because they have a deep human need that is not only not being met by science, but is being actively (in their perception) threatened by science. Secularism currently has nothing to offer those people except the absence of a philosophy, the absence of training, and the absence any real understanding of their needs.

And why? It’s not because science doesn’t contain all the necessary ingredients for such a philosophy; it most certainly does. It’s because science isn’t in the business of generating philosophy, or taking care of people’s emotional needs preemptively, or instructing people on how to live wisely. Science has left that to the churches.

Secularism doesn’t need to go to war with religion, or with Republicans. It needs to outperform them in the competitive marketplace. It needs to understand the customer better and meet their needs better. If we really believe science is superior to superstition we need to demonstrate it, not just declare it louder. There is nothing scientific about pretending we are purely rational creatures. Science has long known that we have a complex emotional nature. There is nothing contrary to scientific principle about recognizing our whole nature. We don’t need to destroy the church. We need to bring it into the 21st century. Science alone is not equipped to do that, but an astute philosophy that adheres to science while understanding the broadest scope of human nature is.

People are really tired of superstition, and hungry for truth. But modern humans don’t even cook their own meals let alone build their own philosophies. The members here are exceptions; they are all DIY philosophers, but the general public, by and large, are not. An establishment that could assist them with that chore would not need to beg or cajole them for their patronage.

Science has long since overtaken superstition as a means of explaining natural phenomena, but Religion is still kicking Science's butt in marketing and service. Their product is a fully assembled worldview; ours is a bucket of parts.

@skado Wow. That is one of the most profound things I've seen on this site. I think you should make that a stand-alone post.

Thank you, @bingst I can do that.

11

That is appalling that people have to bully like that. Saddens me that people can not take a moment to listen and consider that someone can have a different idea won't be listened to. This to me demonstrates closed mindedness.

azzow2 Level 9 Jan 22, 2018

Would you say that to someone who thinks all Jews should be gassed? Some beliefs shouldn't be tolerated and all our lines in the sand are at different points.

@JeffMurray This statement has to be the most close minded statement I have read yet. This is not WWII Germany. This is the United States of America the 21st century People need to work with each other and attitudes like your statement, will repress psychologically for centuries to come.

@FortyTwo Have no idea why you are supporting the burned out 3 rich but hey it that is your choice who is to judge you.

@azzow2 There were hundreds of people marching in the streets, brandishing torches, waving Nazi flags, and chanting, "Jews will not replace us" here in the US, only a few months ago. Where the fuck have you been that you don't think my counterexample was pertinent?!?

@FortyTwo My apologies thought you were bashing. I do not support either party. I am anti bullying though did not read clearly my mistake.

@JeffMurray Dude I live 80 miles from nowhere I watch Netflix and Amazon. I stay away from reading or watching the news because they omit and add info depending on what they support.

@azzow2 I consume almost no news. I hate it. I even deleted my Facebook, which sadly is where a lot of people get their news, but it's shocking to me that you managed to not hear there is a huge uprising of Nazis in the US. Either way, if you are going to intentionally cut yourself off from all current events, you probably shouldn't be admonishing people while referencing what you think is the current state of affairs in this country.

Was unintentionally the dish antenna bill was like 90$ a month shut it off like 2 months ago. We are simply too far away to get even network tv. Do not miss the news that much. Watch jeopardy on YouTube occasionally. Looking into a satellite dish that I own do not have a monthly bill.. Listen to the radio but it is Amazon steaming just have not paid attention. Noone even mention it to me had no idea. Been busy being a dad and a writer. I really hate bullying and when I see it going it is very irrating . We live in what is called to be civilized society and when I see people back sliding reminds me of being a helpless child and having been pick on to a point of abuse by my stepfathet. I just really hate bullies.

Unfortunately making assumptions than having thoughtful conversations has become the norm in the general US atheist community.

@repubatheists Think that if we make mistakes it helps us learn for the next time. To boot this website is more unique than the others. I normally do not post much. The facebook community when I post something lots of time it is ignored. Here people are great they can point you in a more thoughtful positive way.

@azzow2 That's good. As a more conservative thinker, I have found it difficult to find decent atheist groups to communicate with both online and in person. I've been gradually carving out my own community which has been fun.

9

I enjoy having civilized discussions and debates with people who have differing opinions. The problem I have is when people begin bashing, mocking, criticizing other people for their opinions, particularly when they have asked for them. Challenge an opinion or counter with facts, but don't be a douchebag to other members.

@ScienceBiker You have a point. Lol

8

Those Republicans on this site have a right to their political beliefs, but should be prepared for substantial and strong disagreements with others who believe differently. Still, civility should be the order of he day.

7

If they are intelligent atheists they can't possibly be devoted to Trump anymore than all Democrats were big on Clinton. Unfortunately, many people feel the need to affiliate with one of two political parties. The leaders of those parties aren't necessarily the best representatives of the party ideals. Just because one is a Republican does not mean one is an enthusiast of all the prominent members of the party. I would rather have atheist republicans here for better understanding of their stances on all matters social than drive them away. If this is only a site for liberal arrogance then it is not really a forum for intelligent thought.

I agree with what you're saying. My point was that the member wasn't saying "I'm with Trump" but was giving his conservative opinion on issues. I was hoping that "I'm an Atheist" would be sufficient for respect here.

7

I have never attacked a Pub atheist myself. We should play nice. Don't know who the victim could be.

6

There’s a lot of ant-Trump sentiment out there... especially among people of reason. We can see quite clearly how dangerous the man is, and how destructive he is and how he threatens in every way our democracy... It’s pretty straight forward. So when a supposedly reasonable person defends Trump on any level, that surprises me. But I may be working under an assumption myself, in that I thought atheists and agnostics at least “leaned toward” reason.

I’m not familiar with the guy in question, or his posts, so I don’t know what kind of Republican he is, but today’s Republicans have become hostile toward science and reason, conspiratorial at a level that Alex Jones is now normal to them, and antagonistic toward facts, to the point they like to create a false reality. These are things reasonable people don’t do.

I think the challenge we all face is what I like to call “unskilled behavior,” in that we don’t know how to debate an issue without attacking the person. Words, thoughts, and ideas, have an emotional component to them. This just “is.” It’s baked into the cake and I don’t see a time in the near-future where that isn’t going to be the case. And sometimes when emotion is running high, our debate skills suffer from it. Very often I’ve had to compose a response in Word, edit the crap out of it... even come back to it later... but, alas, that isn’t always the case. Sometimes I shoot from the hip and don’t bother to “ask for clarity” instead.

This is a skill, and I think that if we start thinking of it as such, we’ll get better at how we respond. There are plenty of books on the subject, and those can be quite useful.

But Donald Trump is a profoundly treacherous individual, and those who put him in power, i.e. Evangelicals, want to use that treachery to bring real harm to all those they disagree with... particularly the non-theist community. As a non-theist, I would thing they would at least find that alarming. Carl Rove was an atheist, but he certainly had no problem making life miserable for other atheists.

Wow - I completely disagree with your comments. All of my intelligent friends support Trump, while the slower ones don't like him, they seem to be like parrots that repeat what they hear on CNN without ever thinking for themselves.

Trump is repairing this country at a record pace - fixing all the bad policies by Obama and Bush. He wants border security to keep Americans safe and for that he is labeled a racist.
All Americans should be grateful to have someone in office that is a business genius, that is fighting for them. But the Dems can't see the big picture - its pathetic.

This is a joke, right?

@Benthoven Great comment. And...I don't think gater is joking.

@gater I completely agree with you but most of the people on this website seem to be Trump bashing. Hell almost all of my friends, like yours are Trump supporters with only those looking for a government handout supporting Obama. After 8 years of Obama people were so disgusted Trump carried 87% of the vote.

@gater Seriously? That's all you got? Jesus, I've heard better comebacks from a German Sheppard.

But I'll just say, "Spoken like a true Trump supporter." Or, "I've seen funnier comebacks on Fox and Friends." "Is that what you said to your teacher when you were home-schooled?" "I hope your mouth speaks more intelligibly than your ass does." "Would your insults be funnier if you knew how to read?"

I got more, but I'll hold them for the next time. In the meantime, I'll leave you with the words of the great thinker Bertrand Russell:
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.

So I get why you can't understand the comment.

@gater Ah, those Trump supporters. I understand your response based on your limited cognitive abilities.
Quick, spell IQ.

@Benthoven Let me guess - you backed Hillary, the puppet - and you have the nerve the call anyone stupid?

@gater Only because she wouldn't destroy our country. Trust me, the man you back wouldn't know truth if it crawled up his ass, tickled his colon, and latched onto his tonsils .

@Benthoven Clever

@AMNOTGOD lefties werent complaining about he deficit goin up under Obama. Obama sky rocketed the deficit but now its a problem if Trump raises it?

@jorj You're kidding, right? I know that that facts aren't in the Bible, but they are available to the rest of us.

6

I don't think we should "do" anything with republican members here.
For my own part, I admit to getting a tad heated from time to time over certain topics.
I try not to call names (except for 45-he's fair game and the gloves are off), or hurl insults,
but, I'm human and I make mistakes and I don't always practice what I preach. I despise hypocrisy, particularly in myself. I never intend to hurt anyone's feelings, but I have questioned
the intelligence of people. That could hurt someone's feelings, and I'm going to try to watch that. Theoretically, we're all supposed to be adults here. We should all be able to handle dissent. I probably need to learn to handle it better myself. Going to work on that, too.
All that said, I think we should all be able to express ourselves, even passionately, if that's what we're feeling. Maybe trying to remember the common ground which brought us all here in the first place is the best way to proceed.

6

There's nothing about being an atheist that means you must also be liberal.

There's nothing about being a Republican that prohibits you from also being an atheist.

It certainly seems to be the case that many atheists in the US are also politically left of center, and it's also the case that the Republican party has carved out a place of distinction within its political coalition for socially conservative Christian people -- but so what? What defines us as a community not a unity of political belief but rather a shared acceptance of a skeptical attitude towards religion.

I'm perfectly happy to hear from politically conservative atheists, and I hope they stand their ground and defend their points of view as best they can. If they can convince me to change my mind on a particular issue based on a fair argument on the merits, so be it!

Except most of the arguments for their stances on issues are based on faulty reasoning. It's why those same people tend toward religious beliefs.

That is a good way to look at it Erik.

6

Reasoned discussion is the best way forward. Even if someone is on the other side politically, if they're able to put forward well-constructed and coherent arguments, I want to hear them. Anyone who resorts to ad hominem arguments, even if they're correct in their position, ruins a discussion.

6

I consider myself to be a moderate, but just slightly to the left. I don't care if someone on here is Republican, as long as they play fair works for me. I like a place I can present an opinion, and if you don't like it, that is fine. Present you opinion. Just no attacks.

5

Unfortunately this has become a common occurrence in many atheist groups throughout the US. Not only does it create a divide in the atheist community, but it makes the atheist community in general look unwelcoming to outsiders unless they are prescribed to a specific political ideology.

I recommend emphasizing basic communication courtesy within the group. If people choose to be hostile and insult they should communicate on their own time outside of the group.

Atheist Republicans are collaborating more. There is an organization called Republican Atheists that engages with the public. You can point atheist Republicans in their direction.

5

As a republican atheist I hope you don't do anything with those of us who identify this way. If someone couldn't take the heat of this left crowd don't worry about it. I enjoy this site for the political conversations mostly because ther aren't many republican atheist out there. You can always learn from someone even if you disagree with them.

5

Difficult, because not all Republicans are idiots, and some can even be respectful and make well thought-out points.

I don't think I saw the post referred to above. If the user was subjected to personal insults, then that's something that needs to be addressed and, in future, discouraged - after all, if we wish to propagate our ideas, we need people to listen and they won't do that if we're abusive. However, it's a different matter if s/he left simply because several people took an opposing view and told her/him that s/he was wrong. Heated arguments are to expected when discussing matters such as politics and religion - things would certainly become heated if any of us liberals and lefties were to go onto a Republican/Conservative/right wing website and start espousing liberal/left wing philosophy, and if we left as a result of being told we were wrong we'd be called snowflakes.

Jnei Level 8 Jan 23, 2018
5

Unfortunately, tRUMP has created fear in those Republicans who might oppose him by instilling a "with me or agin me" attitude. Such behavior as you described is part of result of that.

I was referring to the majority-liberal members all taking turns equating his conservative comments on issues as "love for Trump". I don't know. Maybe I haven't spend enough time reading comment threads online so I don't know if it's normal for this type of behavior.

4

Unfortunately most of the atheist on this website with the exception of the conservative seem to be liberals. It amazes me that the administration tolerates all kinds of cursing and hate when it comes to Trump and the pro gun people but when when you reply in kind your comments are censored or deleted. @Lancer, @gater

I know what you mean. But I have solid evidence that the internet is mainly used by irresponsible liberals, at least that is more evident from the "pre-election polls" showing "overwhelming support" for Hillary. Which turned out to be false. There are right wingers and conservatives which are currently the majority in society. However they rarely use the internet to vote on stupid polls which are a waste of time. What matters is the electoral vote and that is the only one that the conservatives and right wingers vote at.

The left have more spare time which is why they can go out and demonstrate during the weekdays and weekends. The rest of us conservatives are working, studying or enjoying time with out families (generally). But the left protest EVERYTHING. Whereas the conservatives pick our battles. We preserve History, Rights and Freedom. Whereas the left protest offensive language (by using offensive language), feelings and other less worthy causes.

If you're a lefty, you're generally indoctrinated by peer-pressure. But if you're a conservative which is where most people should reside if we use the principle of the bell curve then you're generally a reasonably intelligent individual who doesn't always follow the crowd.

4

I came here looking for a place to discuss agnosticism/atheism, but it looks like you're only interested in liberal bigotry. You people are more close-minded than religious people. I'm outta here.

Why don’t you join the conservative atheist group. You’ll find some like minded people there.

@Idheinz If you are still active on this site, you are more than welcome to join- "Conservative Atheists" You need not have to be Republican to join, there are plenty of Libertarians and Independents in that group, and even a few moderate liberals who share some conservative values.

4

Good topic. im not a republican at all but I will constanlty be attacked by the "liberals" cause I point out the problems from both sides. what u are creating with this site is lookin to be like a echo chamber for the ultra-left that thrive on only idetitiy politcs and scoail justice issues. the brightest atheists to ever exist in my opinon don't have to belittle anyone to get a message across and when ppl are assuming things on others only to have a reason to ignore the factual evidence put forth it is a recipe for disaster. this site has helped me to realize that even tho I once thought agnostic and atheist ppl to be of higher intelligence that could discuss issues rationally and intelligently, the truth is most of them are just as emotinal and self absorbed as any religious groups. ive been here for a couple of weeks myself and have reached lvl 6 pretty quick cuz I do try to engage but honestly, im about to leave the site to cause of the way things are here. when I can point out a FACT of something then have ppl ignore what I say then put words in my mouth and twist it up so they can get back to their preprogrammed talkin points I have to question whether or not the site will be for the greater good or not. seems to me like its more of a hangout for the SJW group for the most part, not intellectual conversation.

jorj Level 8 Mar 11, 2018

This is the first I came across this post. I couldn't agree with you more, what you said is true. While I do lean conservative, I'm not really fond of identity politics, and both major political parties have long become corrupt. It is my assumption the conservative member Admin mentioned above is the guy who used to host the Conservative Atheist group. While some in that group may not agree with your views, I respect your views and glad you share them with the group, and also glad you decided to stay in said group and on this site. The way I see it the reasonable members need to stay to somewhat balance the others who are intolerant and confrontational.

4

As a former Bernie supporter, I think that too far left is wrong, and so is too far right. Most of my liberal friends accuse me of being a Trump supporter, and my conservative friends call me a Hillary supporter. I WAS NEITHER! I try to be open minded about all sides of a debate. How can anyone be open minded if he/she throws away half of the information? Trump may claim to be a christian, but his actions sure don't seem to show it. I think republican agnostic/ atheists should be made to feel welcome here. It's hard to change someone's mind after you have slammed the door in his face.

fellow "berniebro" here as well and i know the exact things u speak of. only when the extreme left realize how bad Hillary was will things be able to get better but at this point all that matters is gettin a woman elected to them cuz we had a minority so they "feel" like its time for a woman no matter how crooked she is. the policy has no use at all as long as the left voters ignore the facts of their candidate in order to make their agenda happen.

4

I am an Atheist since birth....I am a registered Republican and I voted for Trump.

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I'm a lifelong Atheist, and I was an elected Republican for 12 years. I don't see the conflict.

You held public office as an atheist Republican?!? @TheMiddleWay unicorns DO exist.

The two are two entirely different issues. My religion (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with my desire for fiscal responsibility. Why do you believe the two are linked?

As Fire Commissioner for my village, people were concerned with the cost of a new fire engine, response times, and payroll, not whether or not I believe in the Easter Bunny. That question simply never came up.

@JeffMurray

Not surprising: theist democrats are a dime a dozen.

@ldheinz I wasn't saying the atheist Republican was the unicorn, I was saying the atheist that was elected by Republicans. The comment made it seem like you were "out of the closet".

Ah, I was wrong, @TheMiddleWay, it appears he wasn't elected as an out atheist. Just a regular old horse-like creature with a horn super glued to his head.

"Out"? I'm not "out" as an aleprechaunist, either. I just don't believe in Santa Claus, that's all.

@ldheinz I agree with @jeffmurray 's SENTIMENT. It is very RARE that avowed/open/"out" atheists get elected to ANY position in this country, ESPECIALLY by other republicans. Did you sincerely not know what he meant, @idheinz?

@BlueWave It's why I didn't respond. Either he's pretending not to know what the fuck I'm saying or he actually doesn't, either way it's annoying.

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