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The Art of Being a Victim.

Worldwide, no matter what religion, no matter whether atheist or agnostic, rich or poor or middle class, there is no easier way to get people ruffled than to suggest they can take command of their lives.

"I can't get ahead because the rich won't let me."
"I won't prosper until the government makes sweeping reform."
"She made me angry."
"The system is rigged against people like me."
"We are born with innate talents, and can't learn them."
"Some people are born lucky,"
"I can't succeed until racism ends."
"All the money is controlled by the elite."
"My genetics are keeping me fat."
"We have destroyed the environment and I can't enjoy nature."
"Monsanto has poisoned our food supply so I can't get healthy."
"Social media has destroyed real relationships, and that is why I am lonely."
"You can't trust men."
"You can't trust women."
"People who make a lot of money should help the rest of us."

Alexander Pope said: Plea for your limitations and they are yours.

anonymous 7 Dec 18

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If you are arguing every person can be the master of their circumstance, I have to disagree.

Your argument fails when given to 7 year old illiterate child brides.

Your argument also wouldn't help kids who raised themselves dealing drugs, sleeping in flop houses and running errands for the local gang in order to earn mom's drugs and a meal for the siblings today.

Or the person in chemo whose insurance won't cover their treatment.

Or the car accident victim who awoke quadriplegic.

The truth is bad things happen to all people. Some life events we can avoid, or try to ameliorate the consequences. But you need two things for autonomy: freedom and opportunity. You assume everyone enjoys equal measures of both, and in my opinion, this paints you as an elitist.

Kevin Johnson I am not arguing for victimhood. I am arguing that asserting everyone has the autonomy, resorces and opportunity to overcome circumstance, acculturation, and abuse smacks of elitism.

If what I wrote hurt your feelings and makes me, "insensitive, immoral and downright mean" I would counsel you to take your own advice, be responsible for your feelings, and don't read posts you find upsetting or that disagree with you.

Okay Kevin, you're right in your lofty judgement and absence of compassion. You are wrongly paraphrasing what I wrote. Please demonstrate where I wrote people should either accept circumstance or just die? I believe I was addressing your value judgements assigned to people less fortunate than yourself, but sure, make this all about me.


People can and do take control or "command" (odd choice of phrase) of thier own lives, all the time, and they don't need this warmed over Stefan Molneyux / Machiavellian nonsense in order to do it, as is displayed in the tone of this.

lol, so im right. That's the crap youre trying to sell. here. I knew it sounded familiar. why wouldnt you want to help people around you that are in trouble? Why yes, it does make you feel good. Each person is a part of a web, a network of people that help and support other people around them. These people, who I just call people, you have a hard time relating to them even when they are in extreme conditions, and get victim status. Its interesting that you find things like compassion suspect, or you think that people being victims of any sort is a cushy gig for them, or its favoritism, or "quitting", or "laying down and dying".
I do not control the tone of this site, we're just talking. it is rare to find people like you with nothing wrong with them.


im trying to figure out the impetus and motive for such a post. Al i ccan think of is some sort of adversarial mindset that sees itself under attack from various forces, and splits the world into winners and victims, when it just is what it is. I posit something awful has happened and this is overcompensation, because there most certainly are victims in the world, of all kinds of things. and it is for the good people of the world to help them back up, not to minimize anything anyone has gone thru, That you have never even met.

What about flood victims? Stroke victims? Rape victims? Is the word "victim" the issue?
Quo Vadis?

All over in the America, in the middle of the night, you can go to McDonalds in just about every town, and meet victims of elder abuse and identity theft, in there getting warm and trying to use the wifi. I'd wonder at people that could be all "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" to these folks, or rolling up with this "personal responsibility" jive, presented like this. Hard selling crappy ideology that no one would want, and disingenuous, now that i have to guess.

I can hear Ron Paul's voice, telling school kids to work as their own school janitors, to pay their way thru high school. yknow, like al high school kids dream of.

No, i am suggesting that cruel intended people not go "youre not a victim!" and not offer any sort of help, when it is ridiculously easy to help them. You would be unwilling to do such a thing because it would involve a sacrifice of money or time on your part, and you cannot freely give something like that without getting some sort of return.


I'd say it's a poor stance to take by anyone to say that they can never succeed because of all these other circumstances. I would however also say that due to all these circumstances it makes it much more difficult to succeed. The "suck it up" mentality is not a solution, nor is hardwork and perseverance necessarily a path to success. Factors such as poverty, race, greed of the rich and poor governance do in fact have profound effects on whether a society and even individuals can progress and succeed.

Someone deciding to work hard won't magically land them a well paying job with benefits, especially if those jobs are becoming less and less common and more exclusive to who they will hire.

A "can do" attitude won't make the problems that minorities have to face every day disappear.

"Growing a pair" will not stop the rich from exploiting the poor.

Is it impossible to succeed when dealt a crapy hand? No. However the examples we have come from people who are truly talented in whatever it is they decide to pursue and the success story is often(not always) accompanied by someone who is more successful already, pushing that person towards success.

Although in my response here I am assuming the success that we're talking about is to live financially stable. In a sense success is measured more on an individual basis as how satisfied or enjoyable An individual finds their life to be and I would say that The likelihood of that success varies on each persons own definition of what that would be.

"oh, i see that you're a black single mom applying for a home loan... here you forgot to Capitalize your name here, and cross the T on this page... oh, and the bank just ran out of money.. Sorry. Yes. Yes I know you have three jobs, a high credit score, equity, but the bank just ran out of money, and its Thursday. Siorry, no home improvement loans on Thursday. This is absolutely no reflection on your gender, race, or marital status or anything like that. imsorrywereclosed."

i have a feeling that you are somehow insulated from what people go thru, are unable to empathize, or are protected in some way from those sorts of things, or do not encounter people that experience these sorts of things, or when they do, you are quick to go on about victim/no victim, and urge this woman tofight, a black woman, to get loud and make a scene and start an initiative in a bank, lol.


Look.... life may not be fair, but life's playing field must ALWAYS be level. The New England Patriots didn't get to make their own rules for their games this season just because they won the Super Bowl. They've had to play the whole season by the same freaking rules that the Cleveland Browns have.

Winners should win because they were better. Not because they rigged the game. When we allow those who would cheat the system to rise to the top, our best and brightest do not flourish.

See, that's where you and those who share your thinking are so horribly flawed and misguided. In a civilized society, the game isn't fair. The rules are. If fair rules and a level playing field didn't ultimately win the day, we'd all still be living in caves and shitting and pissing where ever the urge arose.

There are always those who simply can't keep up that will try to con and cheat the rules, but they ultimately loose. They may win small victories here and there, but these people eventually fade in to the background where they belong. Those who rose to the top simply because they were better and could win playing by the rules are the ones who write history.

As an example, I give you Nicolai Tesla. Ask any kid today who Nicolai Tesla was and they'll probably be able to tell you at least a little something about him. Ask them who Alexander Graham Bell was and I'll bet half of them say that he's a member of some boy band. The other half might be able to surmise that he had something to do with the telephone.

Unfortunately, Tesla ultimately died broke because he fell victim to inferior con men and charlatans. But in death, he's having the last laugh. 100 years from now, his name will still be honored and his life's work still studied.

This "winning" and "playing field" concepts are the very thing that keep people in chains, and most of the world in darkness, and i mean some darkness. Life is not a fucking game. and never has been. My saying that does not make me some "chill" dude that does nothing, unconscientious "winning" is why people ignore kids hand mining cobalt for cell phone batteries, and things like that. they ignore things, or get mad when you bring up those expendable children cobalt miners, and the child soldiers around them, for there are no victims, only winners and losers (lol)


@KevinJohnston I've pretty much given up on you but I think I should post a comment so others can see a different and more inclusive perspective. Of course personal responsibility is very important but no individual's power is immune to our shared reality. Some problems are systemic and unless the system changes the problem doesn't change. We are all part of different groups/societies and what we do and don't do is always bound to those group/societies to some degree. Most individual problems have some connection to societal problems. This does not mean change and controlling what you can control isn't worth the effort but it does mean that victimization DOES exist. As far as I can tell from his other posts Kevin Johnston is a Libertarian and central to their beliefs is the idea of an Individual with a capital "I" somehow seperable from history and social reality as absurd as that sounds. They also believe in essentially unregulated capitalism but I'm not focusing on that this time. I've challenged him on this on another thread.Everyone who reads this should keep that in mind. It's always important to recognize what story each of us tells ourselves to make sense of our world.

we have destroyed the environment. every problem with life on earth is to do with human overpopulation and greed.

@KevinJohnston Before it was I had 'pretty much' given up on you. Now it is: I have given up on you. I responded thoroughly and directly to everything you said as have many others in this thread. You have not afforded me the same courtesy. Once again your responses have been hard to connect with what myself and others have said. If I got the libertarian part wrong I apologize. I thought that because you had quoted a libertarian before, of your unabashed affection for capitalism and your emphasis on capital 'I' Individualism (all hallmarks of libertarianism) that was your affiliation.

I'd say that, but maybe a redhat. they normally talk like this. He seems pretty pissed off at "chill" people, pot smokers, that sort of thing. I wonder if he's "pro life"? I'll bet he is. Ready with a "personal responsibility" lecture and wand.

Ok, lot to unpack here. You don't seem too liberal to me, lol. I think the word youre looking for is "paternalism". Lol. Im not sure where you are making these absurd leaps in logic. Please describe by what method I am now "teaching" people (kids? Slaves? What?) that they are "powerless"?

The hard part for you, would be the personal responsibility lesson that youd pick up right away with this "massa" and "dem po dum" whatever helpless people. Its interesting that im "White" for this kind of stuff, but "From the Azores" for country club membership determination, lol

A lot of bad dungeonmaster language here, bro. You should have chilled more, and saw the value of knowing when to stfu, and work on team building skills more. Now youre all "youre a victim of your need to follow dogma!" Did you run to your room crying after typing that? Dogma?


Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. Your choice.

lead, then assign everyone to thier best roles, then cross train everyone during the down times so that everyone can switch out and pinch hit st the other jobs.


So do you think we should just accept the status quo, whatever it is, pick our selves up by our bootstraps and get on with life, turn a blind eye to inequities and injustice, put up and shut up? Not me.

Ringo Starr was recently displaying this "Get on with it" attitude, but he was talking about BREXIT, lol. Im sorry, I shouldnt complain about our inept pussygrabbin, nazi sypathizer president that is trying to rip off the country and scuttle the economy, lol. My to do list is 28 pages long, and they are 11 x 17 pages, lol.


Much like the Eagles tune "Get Over It". Love it.



I wish I could hit "like" ten times.

BD66 Level 7 Dec 18, 2017

You nailed it. You can choose to be a victim or not. I choose to fight back.

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