Religious people usually maintain Morals can only come from a diety. While Atheists obviously can't agree with this, I find many Atheists don't know how to counter it. To figue out where morals come from, I think we must first agree on the definition of the word "moral". In many cases I find people arguing for or against actions that are really social acceptability issues and not moral issues.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Morals come from humans, not from god(s). All the religious books - Torah, Bible, Quran, etc. tell people in various words that you must treat others the way you want to be treated. All of them state in various words, that people are equal in spite of having different backgrounds. Ethics and morals evolve as humans obtain more knowledge. In all countries, slavery is illegal - still goes on but is illegal and organizations work to end abuses of power. Humans keep evolving, even though it may look that some of them are DEvolving ... like certain politicians who shall remain nameless.
SKH78
Level 8
May 12, 2018
1
Individual morals are an internalization of social ethics. Put a group of atheists together on an island or in a jungle and they will very soon come up with what is essentially the Golden Rule, which is usually considered to be the foundation of all religious ethics. If they did not, they would soon all kill each other, or at least all but one. You don't need a deity to come up with a system of morals, just people who have to get along with each other in order to survive.
Heraclitus
Level 8
May 9, 2018
2
And NO God or religion can guarantee that people will follow a system or morals. All you have to do today is look around at all the "Christians," including church leaders, falling all over themselves to support a president who is as UNChristian as you can get. Even insisting that he was chosen by THEIR God!! As I watch this society sink lower and lower into the moral swamp, I am reminded of the movie, Lord of The Flies, from the book by William Golding.
“Maybe," he said hesitantly, "maybe there is a beast." [...] "What I mean is, maybe it's only us.”
― William Golding, Lord of the Flies
Morals seem to be subjective to social constructs. What's moral in one part of the world to one set of people may seem immoral to another group. s pick and choose from the Bible what is socially moral and call it 's plan, but ignore other points entirely. In I'd say morals are taught by our parents and reinforced by a society. If you're parents taught you your morals threw the lens of religion you're going to have a hard time seeing around that point of veiw.
JustinPalmer
Level 5
May 8, 2018
2
@Bobby9 See, when you say moral, you're asking for an objective standard of what is right and wrong, yet we cannot provide an answer for what is objectively right or wrong when we do not know if that standard exists. I would recommend providing first an argument in favor of the existence of an objective moral standard before asking for what is objectively right and wrong.
@Bobby9 But isn't it a society that decides what is moral? Example: In our society killing someone who has wronged you is vigilante murder, it is socially and capital offense and morally wrong. But in other parts of the world, like those that do not have a structure of police and jails a vigilante murder can be socially acceptable or even a social responsibility and there for morally right.
Granted this is an extreme example
You are saying morals are not subjective but I can't disagree more. We choose what is moral.
@Bobby9 I think you kind of proved my point. Southern Baptist think it's immoral to dance because the social structure the live within says that is immoral ergo society dictates morals.
Also, I accept your challenge:
Example 1:
Less than two hundred years ago if one man insulted another they could challenge each other to a duel. Resulting at time with one man being killed by the other. This practice was socially acceptable and not seen as immoral but as honorable.
Example 2:
War
Soldiers are not seen as immoral but they do have to kill people from time to time.
What would you have for an example of something that is a moral construct that is outside of a social one?
@Bobby9 I've already responded to this challenge in comments below. Also, what is your justification for declaring an objective moral standard? Your negation of the notion that it is right is entirely dependant upon a consensus which is developed entirely based off of people with like anatomies, social environments, and of course, evolutionary traits.
We have evolved to become social creatures. Functioning as a group provided a greater chance of survival. In order to maintain a society, certain obligations have to be made so that individuals could continue to benefit from that group. This altered our evolutionary pathways as humans (not home sapiens, but other early members of the genus homo) were once solitary creatures engaged in competition with other humans for resources and came together only for the sake of reproduction. And so, murder was definitely a beneficial thing to do(biologically speaking) as it lessened the amount of competition for resources and increased the odds of reproduction especially as there was no desire to cooperate in these early humans as they had not developed an area of the brain associated with social functions.
From what I've seen in studying philosophy of religion, theists tend to argue from one of two points about the origins of morality:
- created morality
Or - Morality exists beyond and always had.
Somehow this is supposed to objectify whatever morality is associated with their religions, however Euthyphros Dilemma discredits this notion in stating that:
Assume 1) created Morality > then morality is arbitrarily based and so is subjective
Assume 2) Morality exists beyond and always has > then is not omnipotent and there is no way to know whether his teachings are truly in sync with whatever that universal morality may be
Edit: Link for learning about the dilemma: [en.m.wikipedia.org]
Edit 2: "From one of two* points..."
EliRodriguez11
Level 5
May 8, 2018
0
As for an atheistic account for the origins of Morality, it may differ widely from atheist to atheist. I personally accept the notion that morality is subjective and is a product of sociobiological evolution. This is a fairly popular standpoint, but there are also atheists who believe that morality is objective and provide arguments in favor, however I know none of those arguments lol
Edit: could you add the philosophy hashtag? Trying to get that out there lol. Thanks
@Bobby9 Depending upon the anatomical state of the individual committing the murder, there may be a degree of pleasure associated with the act. We call these people demented or sick. And perhaps they gain from the murder some cash or the organs to use in some other matter. I personally don't promote murder, but this is Philosophy, and I am attempting to refute your point regarding that nothing is gained from murder. The victim on the other hand may have gained from this a relief from existence, or perhaps a satisfaction in knowing that their loved ones would benefit from the insurance associated with their death.
@Bobby9 I was refuting your point about how nothing is attained from murder. In your challenge comment, it seemed as what you were defining to be immoral was a lack of benefit from an act (In this case murder) and so I proceeded to explain how there could be some benefit.
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