@JeffMurray "The whole point is violence." I surely hope it is NOT. Though I will say I have read a lot of commentary and it seems larger forces are attempting to incite the citizenry. Hopefully, people can see through the manipulation.

@Flowerwall Larger forces? Larger than the President of the United States??

@JeffMurray Trump won't be winning any peace medals any time soon. But the nation has been under assault for a huge part of 2020. You do remember that don't you? No way you could have missed it. $2Billion in damage across the nation. I'm sure it must also be adding up because from what I hear this is STILL going on in places. Crime is general is skyrocketing too. A significant part of this goes back to dem leadership in cities. When the initial incident with George Floyd happened Dems mismanaged. Everyone knows about George Floyd and says they care, but what about everyone else who died in these riots? Why doesn't anyone care about them? Because there is not a media narrative telling people about everyone else! They are just FORGOTTEN. Residents in these cities are enraged with their government for what they view as "being abandoned", but you won't hear that much discussed.

The other point is who knows what else is behind all of this. There is a pandemic. There is government not focusing on readily available, low cost treatment options. There are global economic plans that I don't remeber ever hear being publicly discussed, the "reset", or if it was publicly discussed, I never heard. There is an election that has a huge amount of holes in it. Frequent vitriol online towards people who disagree. Now dealing with censorship of things based on politics. Yes, larger forces.

@Flowerwall That still doesn't seem "larger" than the President of the most powerful country in the world having a meeting with convicted felons where they plan riots so he can declare martial law and stay in power, basically becoming a dictator. Nothing you mentioned is more dangerous or more pressing than an authoritarian leadership of the most insanely powerful military the world has ever seen. Even if he's unsuccessful, his destruction of the fabric of democracy is paving the way for a wanna be dictator who isn't a bumbling fucking idiot, who can actually take advantage of opportunities presented.

@JeffMurray " where they plan riots so he can declare martial law and stay in power," I doubt it. But all of these election irregularities need to be explained. The idea of having real elections is paramount here. I don't know how Dems remain laregely unconcerned with the results. I think I read about 15 or 20% do believe there was fraud. So some, but about 80% are okay. We see voter turn out like never before, but if the day ever comes that faith is lost turnout will drop, drop, drop. I don't see how trust is even the goal anywhere. The courts over and over do not do their job. States are not doing their jobs. And media had no right taking a position in any of this. There are some senators that will call for an investigation, and everyone criticising the senators is clearly motivated by maintaining a believable lie. Why else would they utter a word against what is needed?

Also you used the word "white supremacist" to describe political opponents earlier, please stop attempting to use false names to associate ppl with. It's not good for Dems believability.

@Flowerwall First of all, the only people who believe there were election irregularities are lemmings who listen listen to everything the president says. Even his own officials have come out to say this was one of the securest elections on record. Secondly, there was clearly cheating in the last election. The president was caught on tape trying to coerce a foreign power into interfering and then, as you stated, we had record turnout. So I'm not at all concerned that a small percentage of people who are easily fooled by the president's conspiracy-theory-filled lies think there were problems. Losers whine, that's all this is. Finally, when I said White Supremacists, that's exactly what I meant. This was leaked so that groups like the Proud Boys would show up in DC tomorrow to help with the plan. Google it. They responded and even said they were going to wear the garb of other groups like antifa so they'd get blamed.

@JeffMurray "First of all, the only people who believe there were election irregularities are lemmings who listen to everything the president says. " Sure. You can keep telling yourself whatever you want to believe. If you are not aware of the longstanding history of voter fraud in this country, I recommend that you look it up. I suspect it will be a problem a long time into the future too. Unlike you, I won't label people as "sore losers" at that time because I like to think truth in the process is paramount.

I think you will be able to tell who Trump supporters are because they are carrying Pro-Trump signs and red, white and blue. I am not privy to any of this specific group's plans. If they dress like Antifa it will add more confusion to who is who, but maybe that would lessen chance of fighting. Who knows? I hear the national guard has already been activated. Dems should use this tactic more often and even handedly, because failure to do so reeks of political based, authoritarian control. And hopefully a retrospective look at these political based government responses will be used in places to sue based on unconstitutionality and unseat any proveyors of unequal treatment under the law.

@Flowerwall So you think there's rampant voter fraud even though Trump's own officials said there wasn't? And I'm the one that's telling himself what he wants to believe.

@JeffMurray I want an organised, comprehensive investigation. Once that is completed, with bipartisan participants at each step, than I will agree with the outcome once it is presented in a formalized report. And I will say Trump has cried foul in the past when I myself believe there likely was none, but that means absolutely nothing here. And when I say bipartisan I don't means Dems and anti-Trump Republicans, I mean truly bipartisan.

@Flowerwall Did you miss the part where Trump's own people said there was no election fraud? And we know those are legit sources because Trump said he knows the best people and hires the best people.

@JeffMurray Comprehensive investigation, please! This goes beyond Trump even. I think the entire concept of digital voting is very overrated and too susceptible to multi-tiered issues that can undermine democracy and public trust. This is something Krebs missed when he said "Safest". He may be highly skilled, very intelligent, but to make that claim is not smart outside of digital concerns, if that us not your area of expertise, it's misleading. It almost seems hard to believe that someone at his level of job responsibilty could make such a glaring error. That would be like a computer technician saying "there have been no robberies at this bank" because the digital records match, without confirming with the staff the cash is still safe. It's a big error and if I was the bank managet I would view it as being somewhere between absent minded, or negligent, or what else could it be?

@Flowerwall So the people desperate to find any appreciable amount of election fraud couldn't find it, but a bipartisan group that's not goal oriented will? Please, bro.

@JeffMurray If they don't find it then it's probably not there. Move on. Joe Biden is then the rightful Pres. and any questions can be referred back to findings.

"Not goal oriented"? The goal is to independently audit the elections process.

@Flowerwall That's my point!!! The people that WANTED to find it and TRIED to find it COULDN'T find it, so we don't really need to wonder if people who AREN'T trying to find it will.

@JeffMurray "people who AREN'T trying " Well then you sound like you mistrust everyone just from the very beginning, like a conspiracy that truth will never be found, everyone wants to hide the voter fraud.

@Flowerwall Dude, what the fuck are you not getting? A bipartisan commission wouldn't have the intention or goal of finding fraud. They should be neutral and without bias. So if people that wanted and desperately tried to find it, couldn't find it, or even think they could fabricate it , why would you think a neutral commission would find it?

@JeffMurray Because they would be following up on the evidence that was given and addressing point by point. Okay the goal should not be "find it" but answer the evidence, and figure out where cracks in the system are. If you say this election was problem free I'm going to put you in the same category as Krebs. The first step would be concerns given at various testimonies. Compile the state by state, and federal, lists and then answer them. Even if there is no further fraud found you can still accurately gauge what changes need to be made so that the public's confidence is strengthened and it ends building faith back into the system.

@Flowerwall I can't with this. I'm not opposing it. I think it's a ridiculous waste of money considering Trump's people tried as hard as they possibly could to find any evidence of court fraud they could and failed fucking miserably at every turn. If Trump or the RNC was willing to foot the bill with all the money they fleeced from their dumb fucking supporters if no widespread voter fraud was found, I'm all for it.

@JeffMurray "I'm not opposing it." Okay good that's enough. But public confidence in elections is important. I can see where there is a concern about cost, but it is a cost we must pay now.

@Flowerwall The "public" in question is only people who believe Trump's lies and are being told to question it only because he lost. If he had won, this wouldn't be an issue. We can't cater to people for being sore losers. Notice how Clinton didn't do any of this shit, and we even heard Trump on fucking tape trying to cheat in the 2016 election. We shouldn't have to pay any cost because we aren't deranged, conspiracy-theory-fueled idiots. They can pay all the costs they'd like for that luxury.

Nice insight.

Ay let them gather in the millions, so they all could drop dead.

Me too. sigh

Yeah

You left wing people are the anarchists!

@Trajan61 Please excuse me for shitting myself with laughter at your reply.

@anglophone Seeing as your from Australia what could you possibly know about American politics?

@anglophone Trajan61 wouldn't have been able to spell "anarchists" if you hadn't spelled it first.

@Trajan61 Please, explain--how can we be both Communists and Anarchists?

@Trajan61 Seeing as you are in America, it is impossible for you to know anything outside the USA, and that includes knowing the limits of your own ignorance. Oh, and if you want to play the "Game of Insults", it is already too late for you as you have already lost. You can have this jelly baby by way of a consolation prize.

@Trajan61 Well Trajan, you sound like a 3rd grader. I should correct anglophone. He/she is wrong. Trump supporters are no different than those who supported Hitler or Stalin, for Trump is surely in their club, Going on 350,000 deaths and you support him????Ignorance on a stupendous scale, especially when you consider, which you obviously don't and can't see that he is stealing your money and destroying your water, air and food on an unprecedented scale. I call that attempted murder!!

Given this thread's conversation...this is a little old but could be classified as relevant [psypost.org]

@Healthydoc70 LOL! I was poking fun at @Trajan61 with my admittedly xenophobic and unjustified claim about people living in America. I would add Mao Zedong to the triumvirate of Trump, Hitler and Stalin given the millions that Mao killed with his purges and the way he whipped up the youth of China to achieve that.

Religious Whackjobs.

@Joanne Probably a Trumpanzee.

@Trajan61 There is no voter fraud. Just like trump's birther lies. The media has created something that is not real and the politicians want to investigate the lie they created. BOTH sides have had committees look into voter fraud - it's NOT there! Minor shit happens but on the big scale of major elections there is nothing to swing an election.
The Fairness Doctrine needs to be brought back.

@silverotter11 Why is it the democrats almost always object to showing a valid ID to vote? To me that reflects an intention to commit fraud!

@Trajan61 Why is it that total nutters always make crazy unsubstantiated and unsubstantiable claims?

@Trajan61 The only people I know who object to showing ID where I live are republicans, except if the people voting are not white and then you best have your ID.
FYI, WA State has had all mail in balloting for years. When you register to vote your ID is checked, the auditors office does that. There are no road blocks like limiting the number of ballot boxes. One of the reason the state went to mail in ballots was to save money, make access better for all residents rich, poor, rural or city. Why do some states say you have to have a vehicle registered in the state in order to vote? Yes, Georgia tried to get that in before the run off today. Why did Texas limit the number of drop boxes? Counties in MY state ADDED more boxes.

@Trajan61 Let's see your evidence that "democrats almost always object to showing a valid ID to vote"?

You have no idea how facts are established, do you?

@LovinLarge [m.washingtontimes.com]

@silverotter11 [newsthud.com]

@silverotter11 Absolutely the Fairness Doctrine should be brought back, and let the Supreme Court decide if it's constitutional or not.I've been saying that since the late 1980s. The lack of it is one of the main reasons--if not THE main reason--this ignorance is allowed to grow and fester. It may be a relatively small percentage of people who listen to the megaphone which is AM Radio, but those people then spread the lies and ignorance spewed forth by AM Hate Radio to everyone they know.
Reinstituting the Fairness Doctrine should be the first thing Joe Biden does January 20.

@Trajan61 And your point is? @LovinLarge

@Trajan61 Why do you rely on lunatic fringe conspiracy mongers? @silverotter11

@Healthydoc70 If Trump was anything like Mao, Stalin or Hitler you would be dead! You evidently don’t know your history very well.

@Storm1752 The Fairness Doctrine? I can see the constitutional arguement against it. But a Fairness Network aimed at television? That would be a great idea. Right now all you get are versions of the same propaganda on multiple networks. Maybe the fairer thing would be requiring a warning label that states the generally perceived political bias of the news source, so we could know atleast ONE aspect was definately true of the content. I think the larger the news agency, the more money involved, the more important it would be to make this public declaration. In the declaration would be a reminder to seek out other sources in order to balance perspective. A warning against the ill effects of biased news.

@Trajan61 Your link does not support your claim, Einstein.

[politifact.com]

[mediabiasfactcheck.com]

@anglophone Got it. I was going to add Mao, but got tired and figured he wouldn't know who it was given his obvious high degree of information level.LOL

@Trajan61 Very weak. You have no idea and coming from you, Mr Flat earther it is hilarious

@Trajan61 Newsthud.com "News for Conservatives"? Nope, evidence has to be credible

@LovinLarge So you probably consider CNN and MSNBC along with CBS and ABC to be credible?

@Trajan61 Not always, it depends what their source is for any given article. The only source in your article is The Washington Times which I had already proven is not a credible source. If something is true, there exists unbiased evidence to prove it

@Trajan61 Here we go again. Anyone who is not an american can't know anything. You are so brroad minded

@Trajan61 The only fraud going on is Gerrymandering and Voter Suppression. And the Republicans are the experts at this

@Trajan61 If Trump had the same Power as Stalin or Hitler then you may find that you could be dead by now

@Trajan61 "@Healthydoc70 If Trump was anything like Mao, Stalin or Hitler you would be dead! You evidently don’t know your history very well." Your ignorance appears to be boundless.

I keep an eye on some things just to see what we're up against. They actually believe this BS

@linxminx I know!!! But I've seen even more of these. They're insane!

@Larimar Wow, people so stupid they are willing to die for Trump, though I'm sure there's not a human on this planet he would do the same for, including his wife and children. And what a charming screen name the first post had - "VapingTrumpsPiss".

We've had plenty of false flag events in the past, only in those cases it was the cops or the intelligence agencies like the CIA or FBI pretending to be leftists. Maybe this time the authorities and the media might actually see thru it, since the right wingers are being dumb enough to publicly tip their hand ahead of time. But I won't hold my breath on that, since leftists always get smeared and bad-mouthed by the corporate media and the government no matter how innocent they may be of crime or wrong-doing. As American as apple pie....

@Larimar JFC these people are demented and have lost their fucking minds. I fear for this Country with morons like this running around.

@linxminx The worst ones are on Parler. But equally bad is certain facebook groups that I lurk in or see posted by cousins where's she (primarily) is sharing. I'm in a group that lurks in right wing groups and shares also. Know your enemy and then you can fight them. Where we can, we report.

@Redheadedgammy All the more reason to petition your representatives to bring back some form of the Fairness Doctrine.

@linxminx I know....utterly disgusting. And princess Ivanka called them patriots, then deleted the tweet, he's still stirring them up, and so forth.

@linxminx No, it's going to take time and hard work to tamp this down if we can. I suggest reinstituting laws to force media back to facts and fine them when they don't. And we need to dig up all the dirt on what has happened in the last 4-12 yrs under Republicans and expose it. And the same goes for Dems. Start holding our representatives to truth.

I would love it if he was declared bankrupt and put into the slammer for the rest of his life.

Lol @ political flatulence. It's a succinct way to describe the past four years.

Making popcorn ?

They could all kill themselves for all I care.

I think the jail terms for some of the troublemakers may last significantly longer than a news cycle.

@mcgeo52
We can only hope.

@skado Hope is an illusion in the minds of the gullible and naive.

@SeaRay215ex
It is if it is.

The ONLY positives coming from this will be COVID-19 test results.

Wow, that's an impressive list. I concur that the next 4 years will feel more divided than ever... if mutual compromise doesn't happen.

I was going to formulate a reply, but it looks like I don't need to...

@JeffMurray yeah, what he said.

You seem to think Trump is a person of philosophical and moral integrity who meets adversity with dogged determination, long-term planning, and stoic adherence to principle.

@Admin You mean compromise like the democrats did after Trump won in 2016?

@skado
Do you need any integrity to be a nuisance and trouble maker? He still managed to get 70 million votes across the land in 2020, didn't he? While we keep underestimating him, Trump keeps beating us in the ground. How's that?

@St-Sinner
Of course he holds on to his opportunistically achieved positions as long as he can milk them, but when they nosedive, he bails. If he does otherwise this time it will be a complete departure from his entire life’s history.

@Admin what’s a mutual compromise ? Can u get this into measurable example ?
Maybe will spare division if no charges and prosecution of “ your good for the economy “ president ?
Wouldn’t that be sweet and nice and kind , and soo the right thing to do and stop the hate ... to not mention so convinient .
Let’s not worry about him rallying his supporters to spit on democracy’s face . Let’s focus on what can be done to stop “ dividing the country afterwards “. Bcz u know , priorities and shit .
There in not a fucking crime in the books that this guy and his government have not committed against this country , citizens , health , education , taxation , minors , women , gays , responding to a pandemic , blacks , fraud in all levels , but we are ok w rallying AGAIN . The problem is “ what will happen next “, and what can be done to restore devision. .
where is the post condemning this rally on the 6th ?
I ll wait . And won’t hold my breath . Blue is not my color dude .

I think sedition may be a crime still. Who knows in this country now.

@JeffMurray ha the federal reserve apparently gets away with it every day?

Maybe he’ll get a nice large schlong up his fruity fudge tunnel.

Then he’ll be making a lot of “loud noise”.

@SeaRay215ex I'm kinda hoping some locked up gang members shank him.

You libtards are the ones who need to grow some brains!

@Trajan61 The fact is that Biden & Harris won the election fair and square. It's the trumpian repubtards who are trying to steal the election from Biden.

@BestWithoutGods What in the hell are you talking about? There was rampant fraud. Nobody but a raving idiot would vote for that senile SOB Biden and his Looney VP!

The rampant fraud is on the part of the Chump and the followers he has conned. The rampant fraud is on the part of the trumpians. It is possible that Biden has memory problems, but Harris is anything but looney. The looney ones are the Chump in the White House, and his VP Halfpence. After four years of the Chump, Biden and Harris will be a welcome breath of fresh air.

@Trajan61, I hear lots of claims of fraud. So far there have been four proven cases of fraud. Three were in Pennsylvania. Those involved voters voting multiple times for Trump. One was in Georgia where somebody attempted to ote for a dead person. That vote was also for Trump.

As for all the fraud you have heard about, where is the evidence??? So far five dozen courts have asked for the evidence and haven't been shown any. I've lost count of the number of times that, when asked by the court for evidence of fraud, the Trump legal team says, "we are not alleging fraud, your honor."

We just need Trump to go away a la Goebbels show of courage!!

@Healthydoc70, or he could just imitate his hero, Adolf. Trump knows where the bunker is.

..

My, you are quite the optimist.

I expect it to drop 100 points.

I think some of this upheaval over the votes is revenge, because trump was not embraced by everyone (meaning the Democrats to them). He was not accepted because it was clearly known by at least half this Country...trump is a dangerous man, especially as president! I shutter to think what might have happened if the ‘left,’ had not pushed back to the degree that they were able!

When it comes down to it, Trump deep down is nothing but a little sissy Mary. He only goes after those he knows are smaller and weaker. Anybody can be a “Tough Guy” behind a phone keyboard or when around friends or bodyguards. He would in all likely hood go down with one shot to his face.

He is hated here in NYC. That’s why he moved to FLA. he can never walk the streets here again without having bodyguards or the Secret Service. He’d get harassed and lynched every time he stepped out of Trump Tower.

@SeaRay215ex All Bullies are little sissy Mary's

hi - @dermot235 and @searay215ex

It's hard to argue with these diagnoses of Trump as nothing more than a bully or sissy or "fill-in-the-blank", and I think there's real value in hearing it and discussing it. At the very same time, couldn't this be said of some of the most murderous fiends in history? The amount of damage that Trump has done is hard to calculate and understand, not only in terms of property and lives and health and economics, but in more abstruse ways. So, I'm suggesting, even as we agree that there is value to diagnosing him as nothing more than a lame bully in some ways, that we also stop underestimating him. He is a bully, but he is a scheming and proven-lethal bully, and getting rid of him legally and properly and fully is difficult.