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What did Trump do, if anything, to incite violence?

This question is sincere as I'm trying to find out myself. I'm a fairly active reader of news but have only seen outrage in mainstream news outlets about the DC protests and not specific claims of what Trump did or how the protests were more violent or dangerous than the months of BLM protests last year. The attached video by JP Sears seems to suggest that Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, and Google have teamed up with Liberals to censor dissent and promote that Trump is dangerous via propaganda. In the video, he shows two tweets of Trump, shown below, that he says is what the fuss is all about - is that right?

Bonus question: How are the alleged calls of violence by Trump different or worse than those in this video below?

Did Trump incite violence?

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Admin 9 Jan 13
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63 comments

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25

Sprinkle gasoline over an area, every day, for two months.
Strike a match and the area ignites.
You don't have to touch the gasoline with the match.
The fumes ignite...

Excellent analogy.

21

In all seriousness, I find it rather baffling how anyone could listen to 45's rhetoric, whether in live speeches or online, and not come away the distinct impression that he has been inciting violence, from the start.
Even before the 2016 election, he was encouraging violence. I've heard him do it with my own ears.
He's only gotten worse since then.

KKGator Level 9 Jan 13, 2021

It's like the people that say, indignantly, "Name one thing Trump has ever said that was racist!" I've actually had people, I think even on this website, say something that fucking ridiculous to me.

18

@admin
"What did Trump do, if anything, to incite violence?"
He called on his people to march to the capital and take their country back and don't be weak. Weakness will not get your country back. He spent an hour riling up the crowd and send them to do his bidding. He also on several occasions stated to his Proud Boys to, "Stand back and stand by..." a call for action when he calls. There are others but I'm not going to list them all.

"I'm a fairly active reader of news but have only seen outrage in mainstream news outlets about the DC protests and not specific claims of what Trump did or how the protests were more violent or dangerous than the months of BLM protests last year. "
This is so disingenuous I can't believe you'd let this fly. It is literally on every news channel in America. Specifically, they quoted him 100 times a day. PBS and NPR have had many people discussing the specifics.

As for how they differ from BLM protests... first, this is irrelevant to the insurrection as BLM people were not ordered to go to the capital (the seat of our democracy) and instructed to take back their government. In the BLM protests no police died only protesters and by-standers. In the BLM protests there were Trumpers who admitted they infiltrated it to cause violence in order to harm the BLM movement. No such thing the other way around. (Childish finger pointing of "but they did..." is childish.)

"The attached video by JP Sears seems to suggest that Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Apple, and Google have teamed up with Liberals to censor dissent and promote that Trump is dangerous via propaganda."
Until the insurrection the Big Techs went out of their way to be fair to GOP & Trumpers BUT afterwards they cut them off due to websites not following the rules of monitoring violence posted. Break the rules, break the contract. Tough cookies.

I specifically did not watch the vid, he's an ass and not to be taken seriously.

***I want to add that I think your bias is showing in this post, which I find very disappointing. I understand you are trying to keep people active here and some people think drama aids that but I expect more of an Admin than baiting.

Leelu Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

This is the 2nd time recently admin has show pro trump bias. Its ridiculous

@redhog and you notice he hasn't responded to me though I made a lengthy and sincere reply and he's responded to nearly everyone else. Telling.

@Leelu very much so. Ive heard people complain about him but I hadn't actually seen why until recently. No wonder people just give up here.

@redhog Some people just can't handle facts. 😀

17

Odd, the VOTES say yes, Trump did call for violence, and has been inciting his drones for the last 4 years. But, the commenters for the most part seem to BE those very same Faux Noise Drones. And such a pitiful showing of the whine crowd. He rallied his troops of basement dwellers and Mamma's boys and told them he would lead the march on the capitol. Of course he stayed behind in his "Command Tent" to watch the action and cheer. Trump can't even pull off a Jim Jones Cult because he's a born coward. He is a despicable slug on the side walk. Someone should just step on him and smear him along the curb as they wipe him from their shoe. Now Trumps raider are going to prison, where they belong.

MerlinZap Level 8 Jan 14, 2021

" just step on him and smear him along the curb" ... I think there was a scene about that in the movie "American History X". Are you trying to incite violence here?

@Admin If that's the way you want to see it.

@Admin You're right, a nameless person from a "small free website" or whatever you called it metaphorically taking about ridding ourselves of the vile, violence-loving asshole in the White House and the most powerful person in the world inciting an insurrection on his own government are totally the same. That's some powerful whataboutism game you got going on.

@Admin That is a great movie BTW.

@MerlinZap, @JeffMurray, @TheGreatShadow Should we clamp down on Agnostic "Hate Speech" the same way as if it was said on Parler by a Trump supporter as seen by the examples in my screenshot below? If so, MerlinZap will be banned immediately and permanently. Want that? Why is your statement to KILL TRUMP like stepping a slug different than a Trump supporter statement of KILL ANTIFA by stepping on a cockroach? Why is it assumed to be a metaphor on Agnostic but not on Parler? On Parler, saying that was enough to have their entire site killed. Are you afraid in the slightest that Agnostic will be removed next for "hate speech"?

@Admin So you're against capital punishment? Because that's the law.

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

@Admin Why is a metaphor a metaphor? Is that really your question? If that's our starting point for educating people we want to find common ground with, this is an impossibly long road. Ridding yourself of someone like a squished slug off your boot or whatever the phrase was couldn't be anything other than a metaphor. You can't literally step on the president, and even if you could, it wouldn't kill him or barely even hurt him. The screenshot you posted was some super violent, very specific death threats. They call out 15 specific people, call to shoot police officers right in the head, and wait until Senators grovel before killing them too.
Absolutely that person should be banned for posting that.
And here, again, we see your next-level equivocation skills.
Someone should just step on Trump and smear him on the curb cannot be considered the same as shoot the police officers that are protecting Senators directly in the head so we can then make the Senators beg for their lives before we shoot them to death too, plus, these specific 15 people, we are coming for you and you will know it.
Tell me you're not that, whatever, that you can tell the difference between those things. Please.

@JeffMurray That was quite the useless diatribe over a metaphor. Let me ask you this. Did you start this post with the long hair idiot at the beginning or did you post the very next post about "Violence in America, Democrat and Liberal?"............GO

@MerlinZap Useless because he won't get any value from it, or because you think it has no value?

17

I think it's kind of disingenuous to focus on what was said only and not the entire picture. Could what was said by the president on January 6th be said without the intent to incite violence? Sure it could. But, listen to the emotion in his voice and from the crowd; look at what transpired directly afterwards; look at the actions of the president while it was happening and afterwards. When all of this is taken together, it's hard to argue there wasn't intent.

Yes, I agree that some of his supporters could think he means physical violence... just as they could with most any comment. I can't say that he didn't have the intent to stir things up - Trump is an ass. The only silver lining of the protest is that it might be cathartic and reduce tension in the long run.

@Admin The “silver lining” ,as you put it, would be the unveiling of some individuals who are willing to resort to taking these steps to win their point.

I watch with interest from the safety of outside your border as you beat yourselves up.

@Davekp I have family up there who I hope would take me in if it ever got too bad.

16

I believe it’s disingenuous not to acknowledge the continuous drip of a prophesy of election fraud which Mr. Trump had for months been feeding to his supporters, as part of a deliberate strategy by him to cast uncertainty and doubt on any result in which he was not the victor. First lay the groundwork and sow the seeds, and keep cultivating that idea in the minds by reinforcing the message regularly. These are classic tactics of all demagogues, despots, and fascist regimes....straight out of the Goebbels playbook I’d say. By the time the election results came in, their indoctrination ran so deep that they were already convinced that the election had been stolen from them. The fact that no evidence can be found to support such an assertion will not shift the view they hold that Mr Trump was cheated. Add to that his rhetoric, telling them, the people, to come to Washington and then to march on down to the Capitol, to take back the power which was being stolen from them.

It doesn’t take a mastermind to make a correlation between all these points and to arrive at the conclusion that without actually saying it in so many words ...Mr Trump was expecting they would storm in and prevent the lawful business at hand ...namely the confirmation of Mr Biden as the legally elected President of the United States. This is as clear an incitement to undermine and interfere with the due and legal process of the US government as there could be in my opinion. The likelihood of violence was always present because many of the insurgents were armed and ready to do what was necessary to do their leader’s bidding, and Mr Trump was banking on it. That you can be sure of, regardless of what he may now say to the contrary.

Marionville Level 10 Jan 14, 2021

Well reasoned, well stated!

@AnneWimsey Thank you...as a Brit I sometimes hesitate to offer my analysis of your politics, but this was all played out in the full glare of the international spotlight.

@Marionville: Excellently stated! When Trump asked protestors to march to the Capitol he should have added "but no violence, no vandalism. We want it to be peaceful" Any decent person, well knowing that a huge number of protestors can easily turn into a vicious mob, would have added that.

@Ray13 IMO not just "forgetfulness!!!!!

@Marionville
The World watched in horror. ...right through his presidency, he encouraged division, spurned on the hatred and shielded the perpetrators.

Your comment, "this was all played out in the full glare of the international spotlight". IS SPOT ON😉👍

@TimeOutForMe Yes...and it didn’t give any of America’s friends or allies any pleasure to watch it happen.

@Marionville
We were numb with shock daily😳. Rightwingers in South Africa were looking to trump as their ray of hope🙄 A few South African Rightwingers were also at that Charlottesville march. He, Trump, gave rise to hatred and division we all wish to put behind us.

Forgot to add video.

These Suidlanders have been buying up all the guns in South Africa.

The extent of Trump's utterances of division and shielding the perpetrators.
These Suidlanders are deluded hateful conspiracists.

@TimeOutForMe Yes...Trump was a poster boy for the extreme right wing, especially neo nazis and racists everywhere in the world. White Nationalists in South Africa would naturally be drawn to Trump’s rhetoric. Having the president of the USA showing such overtly right wing white Christian bias was a great boost to racists and zenophobes everywhere.

14

Context. Context is everything. Open a dictionary. You will find different meanings for the same word depending on the...Context. Pelosi's context is (1) that she doesn't have violent groups with allegiance to her or hanging on her every word. And (2) she doesn't have a history of calling for violence to be enacted in her presence. With Trump, it is the opposite. So when Pelosi and Trump both say the word "fight," it has quite different meanings for each and for those who listen to them. That's why there are different entries in the dictionary for the word "fight." Admin, you're smart enough to have figured that out. So how about you reflect critically on the right-wing sophistry that you find on the Web?

Krish55 Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

I'll take your point to heart. I'm not going to fight here 😉

He may be smart enough, but is he conscientious enough?

12

Charles Manson never killed anyone. He just sent his followers out to do his dirty work. Basically, that is what Trump did. Called a rally, fired them up, sent them to the capital. Pretty straight line incitement. No confusion here. But then I truly do hate the son of a bitch!

Your not alone. I am a mere 15 min subway ride from Trump Tower. Everyone I know here hates his guts. It would be a really bad idea if he came back here.

12

I'll play. What did trump do, if anything, to stop violence ?

Leetx Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

Didn't he make a statement and tweet to ask the protestors to go home peacefully? (from what I heard)

Yes. A couple of hours after he let the cows out of the barn... he closed the barn door...@Admin

@Leetx As a farm boy, I can say cows are some of the nicest animals I know. Geese, on the other hand, are not.

@Leetx He also disingenuously said "remain peaceful" long after they were already violent insinuating that what they had done so far classified as peaceful enough to him.

@Admin hours after All the damage was done, and he was forced to, to avoid immediate arrest, duuuuhhhhhh

@Admin : Trump also said he loved them and they were very special. Well, I wouldn't want any of those 'very special' protesters living next door to me.

@Admin Let us look at his words in true context...
When armed militia entered the state capitols of Michigan and other states. He called them "Patriots"
When asked to condemn the Proud Boys in the debate he said "Stand down and stand by" (Stand by for what we might ask?)
After the election, he continued to espouse misinformation of voter fraud. To the extent that hardly any of his base believe that the elections were fair. Even though no proof has come to light and BOTH of his appointees in the DOJ and DHS said there was none.
He refused to condemn the attempted kidnapping of the Mi governor.
He then called on his supporters to come to Washington for a "Stop the steal" rally. ( A clear violation of the Hatch Act but we kinda stopped worrying about little niceties like that ages ago)
(At this point any responsible person might think that there might be some trouble and maybe tone down the rhetoric, however...)
On the day of the rally when Gulliani called for "Trial by combat". Trump son says "We are coming for you". Trump then ... “This egregious assault on our democracy,” he said his supporters should “walk down to the Capitol.”— “We are going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women,” he continued, “and we are probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them — because you will never take back our country with weakness.”
(Exactly where was he expecting his supporters to be cheering from? A respectful distance, all 6 feet apart through muffled masks at closed windows?)

With all this one MUST bear in mind that he is not just some guy, He is the POTUS. His words carry weight (if no substance). You call a mob to come to Washington. Knowing full well that far-right elements and a lot of angry people will be there. (You cannot tell me that there were no security briefings about what might happen.) Then you tell them to walk to the capitol and "you will never take back our country with weakness.” Well just what the f*ck did he think was going to happen? Oh and after it did happen "We love you...You are very special people."

Okay let me put this another way;
There is a guy at the local bar going on and on about how there is a paedo in our community. He says that the police will do nothing and then goes into graphic detail about the acts he alleges have been happening. All night he rants on about this guy and when the bar is about to close he says; Let's walk round to the guy's house and show him how we feel about him. Adding "We have to show strength here"
So then a mob breaks into the guy's house and beats him to death. To what extent was that ranter responsible?

I'll play. because they have become so radicalized and filled with hate that they have not only forgotten what America stands for, ( we the people, for the common good) but just like any other cult they have lost there reasoning skills. @MaryjLacoss

11

Trump did not incite violence. He did something MUCH worse!

When it was VERY clear The Capitol was being attacked, he refused to deploy the National Guard to protect the government and its elected official. He refused SIX TIMES!
Correction: trump refused 1 time. The other times were before the attack and were decisions by security officials and people at the pentagon.

We can't say its negligence, because he clearly want Congress to invalidate a our completely valid and true election process. So TRUMP AND HIS COLLABORATORS COOPERATED AND HELPED WITH A TERRORIST ATTACK ON OUR GOVERNMENT.

Those terrorists should have been exterminated with extreme prejudice. The fact that they weren't is a national shame and the blame lies starting with Trump, and anyone else who aided and abetted.

Just because one is dumb enough to attempt a poorly executed coercion or overthrow of the government using violence does not excuse one from the repercussions. If one entered the capitol building as part of the attack then one is guilty of sedition. If someone of the governnment helped foment the attack unexpectedly but then refused to do one's duty to protect the government because it result in a power gain, then tgat one is also guilty of sedition.

Jail the perpetrators for LIFE!

MakeItGood Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

Yes, we live in uncertain times. How do you expect the next 4 years to go?

@Admin if the trump supporters can suppress their urge to attack and destroy when things don't go their way, if the right doesnt spout outright lies about basic science, if the right can muster up some scraps of decency and respect the rights of minority groups and hear their cries for help instead of attacking the victims, if the right can understand that our economy is not isolated and requires participation within a global system, and if the right can stop undermining our workers health and finances just because big businesss found a way to do it and make a buck...may be we'll have a nice calm 4 years.

But im not holding my breath.

@MakeItGood so basically if the right just goes away or decide to agree with the left, we'll have a nice calm 4 years... I'll not hold me breath either 😉

@Admin the question is why are those ideas considered left. Note I didnt put anything about religion, or culture or succumbing identity politics or socialism or communism. Im just talking about acknowledging reality and being decent and empathetic lol.

I think I read a couple of days ago that there are no leftists. Democrats by most accounts are typically center right leaning. Only Bernie and AOC are real left leaning politicians and Im not including them at all.

There is some truth to saying there is no left atleast not in politics, theres simply the far right pushing around the centerists so much that leftists are sounding reasonable. If the far right/republicans start labeling a centrist left and then gaslight them at everypoint...guess what? They'll end up creating real leftists. And once that starts the power will shift as more and more get fed up with the far right shenanigans.

Conservatives and republicans need to calm the fuck down and start negotiating and playing nice, or the red states will turn blue really quick in the next decade.

@Admin, @TheMiddleWay

Lol dude thats version of the left doesn't exist! The far right has convinced you there is some mystical group called the left. Yeah maybe there are a few thousand nobodies in New York or in California. Maybe a few thousand more scattered across the country. But they are largely ignored by everybody as ridiculous.

Most "liberals" are center right. Bernie and AOC are literally the only one who can truly say they lean slightly left. Hillary and Biden were anti gay marriage, pro war, and part of big business. I don't think of them as left for one minute. They are party players and party players are all the same.

Im an independent. I voted twice for obama because he was mostly the best of the two, but I would have voted for Mccain if he had not chosen sarah palin. I held my nose and voted for hillary because i knew how bad trump was. But when he won you can ask anyone I know what I said, which is "ok, hes our president, I hope he turns a new leaf and magically does some awesome things that benefits us". Then came the travel bans, the dumb wall idea, meetings with murderous dictators...ugh...

Im telling you this to prove to you that I will support conservative or liberal, democrat or republican, if they are actual good for the job and have good ideas.

So I tell you again, all that giberish you wrote about the left, it doesnt exist. There is no grand plan for the environment. No one has solutions. We just gave the data and its alarming. Most of the battle has be about ehat the data even says. And were arguing with religious nuts who think the world is 5000 years old. Gimme a break...there is no grand plan.

You have the audacity to say the left doesnt want to help rural farmers? When they fight for free health care? For a universal basic income? Dont you think think that would help farmers. And its not even a socialist idea! It regulated capitalism.

Dude identity politics is a manufactured poltical issue. It fills an hour podcast nicely don't you think. Something to get uppity about when it doesnt EVEN FUCKING CONCERN YOU!? Who gives a shit about gender. Let people call themselves whatever they want. Fuck off with that nonissue. It concerns all of .01% of people and the right make a fucking mountain out of a damned atom of an issue. Seriously fuck off with that issue. It shouldn't exist.bstop making it an issue, it doesnt affect you more that fart in your face, that is to say a mere annoyance.

Buddy if you think fighting against intitutional racism sexism and abuse of power is equivalent to childish behavior...i refer to the right getting triggered for having to remember a pronoun. Youve instantly lost all credibility.

I can't find any reliable sources that say Trump refused to send in the National Guard six times. The best article I can find says that the Pentagon originally refused to provide support though they don't know why. I'd be interested in sources for this claim. If it's true, that would be incredibly damning but what I'm finding doesn't sound as terrible as this sounds.

@UpsideDownAgain you are correct:
This was the article:
[npr.org]

If you read the title, you can see how I made my mistake: it makes it sound as if trump refused it six time. It was as far as I can tell, the national guard was not deployed until many hours after the attack.

The six times was with the capitol security chief and a pentagon official before the attack.

But we don't really know the details, how many requests were made during the attack. So I guess we'll have to wait.

@MakeItGood Thanks for sharing that. It is very confusing. When I typed it into Google, I got a whole range of claims about what happened. The best I can figure is that Trump claimed he called in the guard right away when really he didn't do it at all. Whether he was in charge of doing so or not is very confusing.

11

You are obviously a Trumper. The man's a big fat liar. Worse president we have ever had. Why would anyone, except a supporter, defend him? If I had just joined agnostic.com I would seriously consider leaving. But I've met too many wonderful people on-line to do that after 2.5 years. Please put a little more thought into your posts from now on. I really don't want to see you lose members.

Ray13 Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

I do try to soften my posts... but if people want to have any meaningful discussions, I can't. For example, what if the title was "What did Trump do to incite violence?"? The result would JUST be a list of phrases which people think do. I don't like Trump but I believe that the only way this country will survive major changes like conservative Whites losing their cultural "whiteness" hegemony is for the country to throw out identity politics and the merciless persecution of conservative Whites for being bad just for being white. To me, denying that they are is similar to denying that Blacks get pulled over more for just being black.

@Admin please cite some examples of whites being persecution for just being white, you are sounding like the harberngr of a war on christmas and the darkies are going to get everything for free type person.

@Admin There are PLENTY of reasons conservative [white] people, collectively, are fucking terrible that are available to choose from, they don't need to resort to the color of their skin...

10

As twitter deleted the post I can not comment at this time however as he has a history of posts that incite people to violence and glorify violence it would be in character for him to react this way. That he would say something like take back the capitol knowing full well that while rational people would take that to mean use your voting, political power to enact change the morons that follow him go "Imma gonna get ma gun and shoot up shit"

Budgie Level 8 Jan 13, 2021
9

The two tweets you cite do not advocate violence, you're correct. They're also selectively cited.

Taking only 2020 into account, as far back as January, Trump tweeted to support heavily armed demonstrators in Virginia: “The Democrat Party in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia are working hard to take away your 2nd Amendment rights.” Therefore the Democratic party is the enemy.

April 17: Following armed anti-pandemic lockdown protests at several state capitals, Trump tweets: “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” and “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

These tweets are in response to armed protests in several states, including Michigan, where protesters chanted “lock her up,” referring to Governor Gretchen Whitmer. The tweets prompt a leading legal expert on militias, Mary McCord, to write that Trump has “incited insurrection” against state governments.

April 30: Armed protestors storm the Michigan state capitol building. Two of the protestors are eventually charged in the attempted kidnapping of Governor Gretchen Whitmer (see entry for Oct. 7, 2020).

The New York Times reports that one of the protestors carried a sign that read, “Tyrants Get the Rope,” and another carried an American flag that had a doll made to look like Ms. Whitmer hanging from it.

May 1: Trump tweets in favor of the Michigan protestors: “The Governor of Michigan should give a little, and put out the fire. These are very good people, but they are angry. They want their lives back again, safely! See them, talk to them, make a deal.” The clear message is that it is acceptable to storm a capitol in an armed mob, if you disagree with the democratically elected authority.

June 4: The Trump campaign sends out a fundraising email asking supporters to enlist in the “Trump Army.” What do you need an "army" for in politics?

July 9: President Trump refuses to say whether he will accept the election results.

August 19: President Trump acknowledges and appears to tacitly endorse QAnon during a White House press conference.

August 31: After the police shooting of Jacob Blake, an unarmed black man in Kenosha, Wisconsin, President Trump declines to condemn white nationalist-led violent protests and expresses sympathy for Kyle Rittenhouse, charged with killing 2 men with a rifle he illegally brought over state lines. About the violence in Portland and Kenosha, including white supremacists harassing and shooting peaceful demonstrators with paintballs, Trump says: “Well, I understand that had large numbers of people that were supporters, but that was a peaceful protest…And paint is not — and paint as a defensive mechanism, paint is not bullets. … These people, they protested peacefully. They went in very peacefully.”

September 23: Trump again refuses to say he will ensure a peaceful transfer of power if he loses the election.

In a White House press conference, a reporter asks the president if he will “commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election?” President Trump answers, “Well,we’re going to have to see what happens.” He further raises alarms about a potential transition of power: “Get rid of the ballots and you’ll have a very peaceful — there won’t be a transfer, frankly. There will be a continuation.”

September 29: First Presidential Debate.

When asked by debate moderator Chris Wallace, if the president will urge his supporters to “stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest,” President Trump answers vaguely that “bad things happen in Philadelphia. Bad things. And I am urging my people. I hope it’s going to be a fair election.” His answers heighten concern of “election day chaos.”

Later in the debate, when asked to condemn white supremacist militias like the Proud Boys, Trump tells them to “Stand back and stand by,” and that “somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left.” This is another outright endorsement of white supremacist militias; the Proud Boys adopt "Stand Back & Stand By" as their slogan the next day.

October 07, 2020: The Justice Department indicts ring for attempting to kidnap Michigan Governor. Trump attacks Gov. Whitmer at a rally. “It was our people — my people, our people that helped her out. And then she blamed me for it. She blamed me and it was our people that helped her. I don’t get it. How did you put her there?” (The crowd chants “lock her up” at the rally in response). He then tweets: “I do not tolerate ANY extreme violence. Defending ALL Americans, even those who oppose and attack me, is what I will always do as your President! Governor Whitmer—open up your state, open up your schools, and open up your churches!”

October 15 President Trump claims to know nothing about QAnon, despite already endorsing it in August, and refuses to denounce it.

November 1: President Trump praises supporters who, with their cars, swarm a Biden campaign bus traveling between San Antonio and Texas. “These patriots did nothing wrong,” he tweets in response to news the FBI is investigating the caravan.

November: In the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election, President Trump’s allies lead a media campaign and a call to action of the President’s supporters. Ex-General Michael Flynn (confessed felon, pardoned by Trump) tweets, “This is as serious a constitutional crisis as our nation has ever faced. We will only be the beacon of hope for the world if we are willing to stand with courage and integrity & defend our republic.” Sidney Powell says, “This is essentially a new American revolution. And anyone who wants this country to remain free needs to step up right now.”

December: While the President’s supporters ratchet up calls of martial law and use of force, Republicans beg the President to tone down his rhetoric.

Lin Wood proclaims on Parler: “Our country is headed to Civil War…President Trump must follow the precedent of Abraham Lincoln and declare martial law.” Meanwhile, Georgia election official Gabriel Sterling tweets, “Stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. Someone is going to get shot, someone is going to get killed. And it’s not right.”

On Dec. 2, Lin Wood speaks at a "Stop the Steal" rally in Alpharetta, Georgia: “We’re going to slay Goliath, the communists, the liberals, the phonies. Joe Biden will never set foot in the Oval Office of this country. It will not happen on our watch. Never gonna happen.”

December 6: Armed protestors arrive at the home of Michigan Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson, threatening violence after the results of the election.

December 8: The official Twitter account of the Arizona GOP asks supporters whether they are willing to die for President Trump.

December 9:“I believe there will be violence in our streets soon.” Lin Wood predicts during an interview on the pro-Trump TV station, New Tang Dynasty Television.

December 12: On the day of “Stop the Steal” rallies, Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio posts photos of himself taken at the White House, although the White House later denies he was invited.

December 12: “Stop the Steal” rallies occur across the country and turn violent; Trump tweets his encouragement: “Wow! Thousands of people forming in Washington (D.C.) for Stop the Steal. Didn’t know about this, but I’ll be seeing them! #MAGA

December 14: As the Electoral College plans to meet in statehouses across the country to certify the 2020 election, credible threats of violence force building shutdowns in Michigan.

December 17: Michael Flynn publicly floats the idea that President Trump could use the United States military in response to what the President falsely claims to be a rigged election.

December 18: Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell meet with Trump and top administration officials in a heated meeting at the White House. Trump reportedly asks Flynn to inform him about the martial law idea; other advisors talk Trump out of this notion.

December 19: Trump begins to rally support around a large gathering of his supporters in Washington D.C. on January 6th, immediately following the Senate elections in Georgia and coinciding with Congress’ certification of President-elect Biden’s victory.

Trump tweets: “Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election” and “Big protest in DC on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!”

December 27: Trump tweets, “See you in Washington, DC, on January 6th. Don’t miss it. Information to follow.”

December 28: Former Trump White House official Olivia Troye says she is “very concerned that there will be violence on January 6th because the president himself encourages it.”

January 1, 2021: Trump himself tweets, “The BIG Protest Rally in Washington, D.C. will take place at 11:00 A.M. on January 6th. Locational details to follow. StopTheSteal!”
He also retweets Kylie Jane Kremer, chair of Women for America First, an organizer of the rally:

“The calvary[sic] is coming, Mr. President! JANUARY 6th”. The President responds “A great honor!” in his retweet.

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) says on Newsmax that as a consequence of the dismissal of his lawsuit enjoining Mike Pence to overturn the election results, “you got to go to the streets and be as violent as Antifa and BLM.” As usual, Trump says nothing to disavow the encouragement of violence on his behalf.

January 3, 2021: Support continues to grow for the January 6th event, as President Trump and ally Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) encourage supporters to show up.

At a rally ahead of the Georgia Senate special election, Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) says, “We will not go quietly into the night. We will defend liberty. And we are going to win.”

Meanwhile, Trump retweets @CodeMonkeyZ (now suspended by Twitter): “If you are planning to attend peaceful protests in DC on the 6th, i recommend wearing a body camera. The more video angles of that day the better.”

January 4, 2021: On the eve of the two-days of events in DC, Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio is arrested in Washington D.C., as President Trump and Donald Trump Jr. call for supporters to “fight like hell.”

January 5, 2021: General Flynn directs veiled threats to Congress while speaking at a rally. “Those of you who are feeling weak tonight, those of you who don’t have the moral fiber in your body — get some tonight because tomorrow we the people are going to be here.”

January 6, 2021: In the morning, President Trump and his allies encourage his followers to show up for the protests over Twitter.

President Trump tweets, “The States want to redo their votes. They found out they voted on a FRAUD. Legislatures never approved. Let them do it. BE STRONG!”

“Today is 1776” tweets newly elected Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), who had earlier in the week made a video purporting to carry her firearm into the Capitol.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) tweets, “FIGHT. FOR. TRUMP.”

January 6, 2021: President Trump, members of his family and supporters speak at the rally on the National Mall in Washington D.C.

Donald Trump Jr. warms up the crowd, saying of Republican lawmakers, “If you’re gonna be the zero and not the hero, we’re coming for you.”

Rudy Giuliani is next. “If we’re right, a lot of them will go to jail. So let’s have trial by combat … I’ll be darned if they’re going to take our free and fair vote…We’re going to fight to the very end to make sure that doesn’t happen.”

Then Trump himself takes the podium:

I would love to have if those tens of thousands of people would be allowed the military, the Secret Service and we want to thank you and the police and law enforcement great you’re doing a great job, but I would love it if they could be allowed to come up with us.
We’re going to walk down to the Capitol– and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them
You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
Something is wrong here, something is really wrong, can’t have happened and we fight, we fight like hell, and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
So we are going to–we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give–the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try–give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re try–going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

I don't see how you could have missed all of the above events in the news, for the last year, which is why I've provided the summary.

The portrait here is a President who glorifies violence by his followers, dismisses democratic norms, excuses violent acts as long as it's his supporters undertaking them, and tacitly endorses, by his silence if nothing else, the most violent extremism, including calls for martial law and revolution- all because his ego can't bear the thought of losing an election. And his constant calls for "strength", to "fight", "fight like hell", "take back our country"- how can you NOT see that these are inflammatory dog whistles to the thousands who had come to Washington DC, already hyped up by a year of talk about a rigged election, already primed by talk of reclaiming the country (from the democratic election, but never mind that), already knowing that they have a President who excuses and supports violence in his name, who supports the storming of a state capitol? Why not take the next step? How else does one take back the country than by taking back the seat of government?

How can you, in any seriousness, ask "What did Trump do?"

Paul4747 Level 8 Jan 16, 2021

🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

This is just like holy texts which are full of violent ideas and incitements to kill, but because they say at some point that they're in favour of peace, all the violent parts are apparently being misinterpreted and don't apply. Trump is as much for peace as those holy texts are. We shouldn't have different rules for different sources of hate.

@David_Cooper Well put. Adding a disclaimer doesn't get one off the hook for everything else said before and after. For example, saying he would defend my governor (Gov. Whitmer) "just like everyone else", and then immediately attacking her policies and supporting the protestors who shouted "lock her up". Everyone knows what the real message is.

wow

9

He whipped them into a frenzy with lies and then sent them on to the capitol building without him. Don't be obtuse!

LovinLarge Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

Do you believe that all the things that whipped up BLM last summer were truths?

@Admin Impossible to answer such a ridiculously broad question with any accuracy. Nice try.

@Admin Law enforcement has disproportionately targeted people of color, for a LONG time.
That is a fact.
The murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, just to name two, forced a reckoning.

Comparing what happened all across the country, and around the world, to what happened in DC last week, is NOT reasonable. They are not the same.
They are two very distinctly different issues.
It's truly appalling how some people don't see how they cannot be compared to one another.

Whenever I've seen/heard anyone attempt that comparison, I've noticed that they've usually been white, and lean (or are firmly planted) to the right. The "what-aboutisms"
strike me as weak and pathetic.

9

Ahh! a troll poll by Dr. Frankenstein who doesn't agree with his monster.

Mind explaining the metaphor?

@Admin Yep, I do, everyone knows exactly what I mean.

@Willow_Wisp sure do

8

[adfontesmedia.com]

The first video is a guy who thinks he's a comic. Try using a real source like those in the green box at the top of the photo or using www.mediabiasfactcheck.com to see where your sources are on the spectrum. AND STOP BELIEVING ANY WORD OUT OF TRUMP'S MOUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, Admin, you show yourself to be on the wrong side time and time again. Go to my post from Seth Abramson and read it ALL THE WAY THROUGH then answer your own question. Facts and truth are important.

Larimar Level 8 Jan 13, 2021

Could be. Thanks

@TheMiddleWay agreed

8

I keep seeing @Admin use the excuse of yes, but BLM. All that does is cloud the issue. The issue is on and before Jan 6, 2021 did Donald Trump incite violence against those that disagreed with him. Do you remember 2016, "rough them up, I'll pay for the lawyer", when the looting starts, the shooting starts, and the list is way too long to try to begin to list hjere. The issue you asked about was DJT,, NOT BLM. If this is to be a valid exhange, don't change the rules in the middle. One topic at a time please. If you have a problem with BLM post on that, don't begin by asking about DJT then answer many questions with but BLM.

glennlab Level 9 Jan 13, 2021

My point is to cloud the issue if the issue is forced to be restricted only to the evil "other side". I put them together to emphasize that both sides see the other side as violent. Do you think that white Trump supporters view the BLM protests as "mostly peaceful"? I assume you would agree that they don't. I'm very concerned that mutual contempt that is going on won't end well.

@Admin You are clouding your own issue. Reality has proven that many times the violence during BLM protests was NOT BLM attendees but Boogaloo Bois, Proud Boys, etc. So stop the BS about both sides, because it's not.

@Admin I don't care what their "perception" is because they aren't believing reality, it's been reported time and time and time again. The protest that I took part in was helped by the fact that I used to work for Probation and Parole....I KNEW the cops. I pointed out some that didn't belong to our protest and they were pushed aside and not allowed to rejoin the march. Entirely peaceful

[washingtonpost.com]

[msn.com]

@Admin I am a white people, I was part of the civil rights movement in the 60s and 70s. I have criticised administrations of both parties for doing the things I considered wrong. One of the most importantrules of debate is that you must define terms and limit the debate to those agreed to terms. This is not creating an echo chanber, but allow full examination of an issue before going on to another. There are more than 2 sides to every issue, if you keep injecting tangents to the mix, you stoop to going to a two sided arguement instead of lively debate.

In Washington, on 1/6 there were several different groups on each side. There were both legal and illegal actions that took place simotainiously. If we simply limited the discussion to the events of Jan 6, not anything that happened in the leadup, there would still be multifaceted explainations.

  1. DJT held a legal rally that morning. He incouraged illegal activity during that rally.
  2. DJT refused to allow activation of the DC national Guard, and required that only the Sec of Defense could authorize activation, a violation of protocal that the Sec of the Army, or the Govs of Va or MD could activate units if requested. They were requested.
  3. Many protesters stopped at the police barracades and did not violate the law.
    4.Some number of the protesters not only crossed the barracades, but scaled the walls of the capitol broke windows, beat at least one police officer to death, looted, illegally entered the house chamber and offices and did considerable damage to building, furniture, fixtures and artwork.
  4. This stopped the constitutionally mandated action of the Congress of counting the vote.

Each of those points is inline with your topic, there is no need to add more cloudiness to the issues. Each of those bullet points could take a lot of discussion, but since many members get blocked, we are only going to see a few of the comments. I have none of them blocked by the way.

I have stopped worring about how the trump supporters perceive things. I have quite a few in my family and friends. I Listened as the degradated other races, ethnic groups, nationalities, religions, classes, income levels, intellence levels, and pretty much anything that was other than them. Not once in the last 50+ years did they show any concern about how I felt about an issue since they were right and had god on their side.

Until we all have the same rights, I will continue to try to give voice to the voiceless.

@glennlab Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I have much respect for the civil rights movement during the 60s/70s. However, I'm more a fan of the vision of MLK/Booker T/Sowell than Malcom/DeBois/Kendi. In 2021, we need to find a way for both sides to lay down them arms.

@Admin I agree both sides to need to foresweare violence and arms. I have been a conditional pacificist since high school. I objected to the War in Vietnam, but served anyhow. I served working with our nuclear capabilities, then cross trained to war planning. I never got involved with any violent protest and normally exited as soon as someone brought it up. Decades later due to FOIA releases of the operatives names we discovered that the people that were encouraging violence were paid police aggitators, undercover operatives, or other government agents.

I never trusted anyone ,including MX, that advocted violent overthrow of any organization. When you resort to violence you have lost the chance of winning the arguement, You may get the other side to submit, but they will not agree you are right.

8

How does this question go no and on? Where have you been for the last 4 years?

DenoPenno Level 9 Jan 13, 2021

I believe that both sides of the political spectrum see the other side as "terrorists" for what they think the vision of the US should be. I also believe that this is mostly due to the social-media outrage machine, echo chambers, and call out culture. One way to get this to stop is to be exposed to how the other side forms their beliefs. For example, most Trump supporters do not see his statements as inciting them to violence... and a question like this one is trying to show that.

@creative51 That is an unrealistic generalization. 'Most' Trump supporters are just ordinary people.

@creative51 Do you have more proof other than that they voted for Trump? Many here would say that that's suffice.

@creative51 I agree. Maybe the first go around you could try to make the claim they were "regular people" (and even that would be a stretch) but not now. Not after what we've seen for 4 years. And also, what's the definition of normal we're using here? There are a ton of racists in the country, so is that just part of normal? There are a ton of people who don't believe in facts and science. Is that normal too?

@creative51 I have have many acquaintances that still support Trump, despite his failings as a human. None of them are racists, and they are all otherwise intelligent and rational beings.

7

An organized crime boss doesn't get a pass in court just because he used vague words when ordering someone's murder.

Rainbird Level 5 Jan 14, 2021

next time all he would say is "you know what to do" and of course that's not incitement-too vague right? 🙂

7

I must object to the ongoing accusation of politicisation of major social media networks.
There is no evidence of partisan moderation, and is a complaint of the insincere and brainwashed.

Mvtt Level 7 Jan 13, 2021

Can you show some examples of Democrat commentators with over 1M followers being banned from Big Tech social media?

@Admin Can you point to a such a Democrat with a Trump-like like history of inciting violence? You are ignoring CONTEXT again. Hitler had a lot of followers. Yet he is now banned in Germany. Hmmn, I wonder why? Must be some pro-liberal prejudice?

@Admin In response, I would rather reject the assertion outright, without evidence having been reasonably supplied on the argument’s behalf.
There’s a false equivalency logical fallacy at play when asserting trump being republican as a contributing reason in his outcasting.

@Admin Sure, as soon as you show some examples of Democrat commentators with over 1M followers inciting terrorist attacks. Hint: they'll be the same people.

@Admin Can you show some examples of Democrat commentators with over 1M followers calling for treason and insurrection?

7

I am done with this fucking admin asking moronic questions. Can't be this stupid or ignorant.

Mofo1953 Level 9 Jan 13, 2021

I have heard a handful of Trumps speeches and have never gotten a vibe that I'm suppose to act out any form of violence. I do sense, however, that anger is rising and not helped by this latest round of banning/censorship. Shutting down Parler by Big Tech is seen by Trump's supporters the same as their pet guard dog being shot. Good intentions have unintended consequences... just like my posts 😉

@Admin the road to a hellish inferno is paved with good intentions. Not sure what speeches you've heard or what rally you attended or if you are selectively deaf, but it could not have been more clear. Now I am really done. Do some research instead of polling shit. Might as well poll is there light during the day only to get dark at night or is it the other way around? DUH???

7

It is hard for me to realistically believe that Trump (and some of his supporters) are not purveyors of division at the least, violence at the worst.

How are we (anyone) to believe him (given all the misinformation/lies), if/when he says he wants peace ?

FWIW, almost every statement by a political could be consider violence inducing by the other side... no?

@Admin I agree your video about the progressives' comments is damaging.

6

By a strictly legal standard, based on Supreme Court precedent, Trump did not say anything that would qualify as "Incitement," which requires a high threshold be satisfied, because the First Amendment most strongly protects political speech, and a president as an individual citizen is protected by that just as much as anyone else. For terms of impeachment, under the "high crimes and misdemeanors" section, the legal standard is not as high, and given his past 4 years, all the tweets, speeches, and random comments he's made, as well as his unchecked sociopathic narcissism, it is obvious to a not-very-sharp rock he absolutely intended to provoke the incident and totally got off on it. This is the guy who was quoted as admitting how much he loves the poorly educated. Why? Because only a poorly educated and/or person of low intelligence would actually fall prey to Trump's bs. Pericles, he is not.

and if there was a next time and all he said was "you know what to do?" Every jury in the world, save a republican one, would know exactly that he was inciting violence and there are no specific words that qualify as incitement.

6

..

I've been following the radical Christians uptick for several years now. My family is full of them. When Trump came on the scene they had found their 'savior'. If someone had told me six or seven years ago that my much loved siblings would become moral less, spineless, cowards I wouldn't have believed it. They started digging in deep when their religion grabbed hold. smh

6

Sources. RT? Really? You don't know what that is? It is Television Free PUTIN." Russia Today".

Mooolah Level 8 Jan 13, 2021
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