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Why not equality right now?

With the start of Black History month, famous antiracism author Ibram Kendi thinks big, saying, “Why can’t we be calling for immediate equality? Why can’t we be thinking that big?”. Well, why not?

A major source of inequality between groups is income. The following illustration shows a simply way to get instant income equality - just have Asian and White people donate their surplus income each year to a pool to be distributed to Hispanic and Black people to make up for the gaps in income.

If it is true that income inequality is due to systemic racism, then what is an easier way to eradicate it than to simply eradicate the income inequality? White people, for example, would only need to give up 13.9% of their income. Could this be considered a small price to pay for 400 years of injustice? Should Asians, once arguably an oppressed group, also participate? What's your thoughts?

Source: [usatoday.com]

Income equality right now...

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22 comments

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5

Equality doesn't come through quotas.
Nor wealth redistribution.
Equality doesn't have shit to do with the wealth distribution. Wealth distribution is just a symptom of inequality. Even if you evenly divided everything the world still wouldn't be equal.
Equality is the availability of opportunity.
The Cynic might say everyone has equal opportunity to fly to the moon, if they have the cash for it.
But when I see a 9 year old black girl handcuffed, pushed face first into the snow and then pepper sprayed like an adult I have to ask how well that would have gone over had it been a nine year old white girl?
It is precisely this lack of respect, harshness and assumptions of intent differences between races by those in authority that are the problem.
Fewer and fewer of us get to eat enough to be comfortable every day, while they sell deserts that are covered in gold foil and filled with truffles.
Many of us need medication for diabetes and heart issues. I had a heart attack on Dec 21st 2020, I'm out of Brilinta an anti clotting medication that prevents my stint from causing a blood clot that could lead to either another heart attack or it could break off and lodge elsewhere causing stroke or a pulmonary embolism. The prescription is ready, but I have to wait till Thursday because I'm broke.
The issue isn't just racial, it may have started that way but now it's those that "have" obstructing those that don't "have." Bigotry against the poor, the racism is more than anything else the assumption that darker races are poorer.
I write industrial control software, I make a reasonably good salary, but I live in my car with occasional breaks at Motel 6 due to health issues that have accumulated as I've grown older.
Capitalism is a slave based economic system, when not actual slaves, then wage slaves. The key is "ownership" and ownership is a delusion. If you think you own your house then refuse to pay property tax and find out how long you get to keep it.
Capitalism is a damnable lie.
Your poll as usual misses the point and reinforces the damnable misconceptions that have been the problem all along.
Learn nuance for fuck sake, you talk like one of the terrorist that attacked our government.

He could learn so much from you.

No quotas, no wealth distribution... you're starting to sound like a conservative 😉

Can you help explain this famous meme?

@Admin You still sound like someone from Alabama under George C. Wallace, a Conservative racist Democrat. The very people that switched parties in the 1980's to join the Republican crime family, since evil people seek out others to reinforce their prejudices.
I don't do quizzes for people that have made their contempt of me and others like me clear as vodka.

@Admin You have this strange habit of misinterpreting things to mean what you'd like them to mean. She did not say she didn't support quotas or the redistribution of wealth, she only said they don't lead to equality.

4

Addressing income inequality addresses income inequality, not systemic racism. There are aspects of systemic racism unrelated to income.

Income inequality, which needs to be addressed in and of itself, is addressed through progressive taxation, not donation.

Progressive taxation IS the same as what this chart shows.. it is just a more radical version of it... tax 100% above a given amount. Currently, Whites and Asians pay more into the tax system while Blacks and Hispanics receive more than they put in. This proposal, motivated by Kendi's statement is designed to get equality now.

@Admin The chart says "give" and your post says "donate", each requiring voluntariness. And we all know you cons aren't going to do anything involving money voluntarily. That's why we're going to take it from you with progressive taxation.

@LovinLarge Are you suggesting that only Conservatives are to pay this progressive tax?

While Democrats lose support as income increases, there seems to be a tipping point where the ultra-wealthy begin leaning Democratic. The most famous example would be the entertainment industry, where star-studded events have become a significant part of Democratic culture.

But this phenomenon is not limited to Hollywood. A review of the 20 richest Americans, as listed by Forbes Magazine, found that 60 percent affiliate with the Democratic Party, including the top three individuals: Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison. Among the riches families, the Democratic advantage rises even higher, to 75 percent.

[debt.org]

@Admin That was not a reasonable interpretation of my comment. Income tax is based on income, not political ideology.

@LovinLarge Exactly! Lets make America great again! Like it was in 1955 when anyone (Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative) earning over 100 million a year payed 91% income tax, yet people were still getting richer, like Howard Hughes, for example.
Reagan said that with high taxes people wouldn't be motivated to get rich.. LOL
As big a lie as the last election being stolen.
Republican's hate the truth.

@Admin Perhaps when people become rich enough that they no longer fear becoming poor is that tipping point. Many wealthy people are still insecure about becoming destitute, and about public perception of them.

3

Income fairness is a totally positive goal and we should start efforts to achieve it right now. But it will take time and effort.

wordywalt Level 9 June 21, 2021

Of course it will take time because because there are many stupid & thieving people opposing it. * [en.m.wikipedia.org]

These are Cipolla's five fundamental laws of stupidity:

  1. Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.
  2. The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.
  3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.
  4. Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.
  5. A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.

Corollary: a stupid person is more dangerous than a pillager.

3

I disagree on wealth distribution, especially if it is managed by big government. But I do agree that more access to education can help reduce inequality substantially. There will never be a perfectly equal society, but a better quality of life is found in better opportunities in higher education. Encouraging competition in the economic market can also help reduce income stagnation and inequality.

JamesA91 Level 5 May 30, 2021
3

The U.S. mixed market economy will produce winners and losers. Having said that, it is the our collective responsibility to our principles and our posterity to ensure fairness in the pursuit of success and happiness. Your post presents a binary choice between a welfare state and something else. I chose something else. I would start by creating more equity in our education systems. Please see the link to more info on mixed market economies.

Education does not result in employment if there is none.

@FrayedBear Better education can result in the ability to create a job when there is no employment, or to have poly skills which will allow adaptation, survival, and employability across multiple disciplines. All of these outcomes will increase average incomes.

@kensmile4u I should have included the word necessarily. I remember a school acquaintance who graduated with a decent degree in math who took three years to obtain employment using his education. That was 50 years ago.

3

I think income is just one (not insignificant) aspect of inequality.

Another is education -- where is the logical connection between property taxes and K-12 funding ? If ALL schools are 'equal', the children of the well-to-do would be educated with everyone else -- Finland :

[bbc.com]

Some say that where people live, school quality for same money spent, and educational differences are due to differences in income.

When it comes to $/student, I thought most public schools have similar funding as some comes from the federal government. If this is true, it might imply other explanations?

@Admin IMO, the large disparities in educational funding are a function of State and local governments.
I'm old enough to remember "The Contract with (on) America" in which the Rs wanted to totally eliminate the DOE (Betsy DeVos would have done it with 'vouchers' ). 😛

2

Ibram Kendi’s solution to racism is to be “racist.” His book is one big crock of shit. Essentially, advocating for the equality of outcome. If you are going argue for some idiotic form of reparations here, why not go after Asians? Hell, Nigerian-Americans make more money than Whites. Another shakedown the way I see it

2

Income is far from the only basis of inequality. Americans of all races live in poverty. In the 1960s African Americans were given more access to higher education by grants etc and that made a tremendous difference in their ability to overcome poverty. Republican administrations ever since then have done their best to lower the amount of money given out in those grants. I believe that should definitely be reversed and actually increased. Americans of all races that now live in poverty are not all capable of benefiting from higher education but many of them can benefit from trade schools. Access to Grant's for Americans living in poverty should be increased for those wanting to attend a trade school as well. Grant should include money for living expenses because if you are the poorest American you can't afford to just go to school and forget about eating and having a place to live. Bernie's free college for all did not include living expenses and realistically without living expenses many people cannot afford to use educational opportunities available now. Perhaps we should just have free college and trade schools for all though but add generous grants for living expenses to the program.

In the '60s I went to college with a girl that had three kids and the system then gave her grants to go to school and free healthcare so she could go to school and work. She graduated and joined the middle class. Yes there are many Americans that have worked their way through college. I have three grandchildren that did it but they all had very good grades and they also had fantastic family support with a free place to live and a car to drive etc.

Throughout America, public School systems are so uneven for almost everyone because property taxes support the schools and poor neighborhoods do not produce a lot of property taxes. That inequitable method of financing local schools needs to be changed.

Both of those things would help a great deal but the ravages of poverty have created ghettos full of crime. Those ghettos must be cleaned up and the people living there need to be given other options. I wish I was smart enough to know how to do that but I do know it will not be done without government support and regulations that prohibit things like slum landlords making money off indecent properties.

Lorajay Level 9 May 29, 2021

Isn't a major problem the insularity of education to life purpose? The tendency is for people to seek education in sectors that that enjoy & like or see as leading to an easy means to wealth. Educational V institutions in the main however do not teach the students how to live intelligent (as proposed by Professor Cipolla & other) lives. They do not dedicate their lives to ensuring that everything that they do is not just for the benefit of themselves but everyone else.

Do read
[en.wikipedia.org]

These are Cipolla's five fundamental laws of stupidity:

  1. Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.

  2. The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.

  3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

  4. Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.

  5. A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.

Corollary: a stupid person is more dangerous than a pillager.

Ping @Alienbeing

@FrayedBear there are stupid people who are rich as well as stupid people who are poor.

@FrayedBear Ping? Your short posts make as much sense as yout long posts.... none.

@Alienbeing No? You didn't read this sub thread?

@FrayedBear Another post that makes no sense. Keep it up!

@Alienbeing Lol, You need to get an improved Hal.

@FrayedBear What does "you need to get an improved" mean? An improved what? Did you ever attend a grammar class?

@Alienbeing Pity you cannot properly read & quote. The statement is "You need to get an improved Hal" and if you don't know what Hal (Heuristically programmed ALgorithmic computer) is I suggest that you look it up & educate your alien ignorance.

@FrayedBear You are so strange it is impossible to follow your rants. Have a good time with yourself, I'm sure you frequently do.

2

That over-reaching idea only works if you think racism is based on wealth. You really think white supremacists won't be racist if their black neighbors have as much money as they do? What you're suggesting ends up with a racist Society where everybody has the same amount of money.

lerlo Level 8 May 29, 2021
2

Equality is never going to happen for as long as you have people in positions of power who do not care about the health and wealth of those who are less fortunate than themselves. There has been no change in that social dynamic over the last 5,000 years, so it takes a fool to imagine otherwise.

anglophone Level 8 Apr 15, 2021
2

Redistribution of income is a truly stupid idea.

Alienbeing Level 7 Feb 16, 2021

Why?

@FrayedBear Amazing anyone would ask why. Remember Property Rights? Income is the fruit of labor, it is solely owned by the person who earned the only. The same applies to Real Property, vehicles and personal property such as clothing, etc.

Now a question for you. What right possibly exists for anyone to abridge Property Rights?

@Alienbeing Consider how "right to property" does not include right to property acquired through illegal earning. America is very fond of imposing sanctions in order not only preventing trade but as recently seen stealing Iranian property, oil for Venezuela, and then selling it to pay for US piracy.

Once money has been legislated to be paid as tax then that property becomes that of the state.

As you so willingly defend property rights surely you will defend the right of the state to redistribute those taxes to its citizens in whatever way it determines including as redistribution of income to enable right to life through food, clothing, shelter etc?

@FrayedBear No one, certainly not me in the above post even hints the Right to Property exists for property obtained illegally. Therefore your ENTIRE reply is absurd, and irrelevent.

If you learn to stay on topic, let me know.

@Alienbeing what part of :
"Once money has been legislated to be paid as tax then that property becomes that of the state.

As you so willingly defend property rights surely you will defend the right of the state to redistribute those taxes to its citizens in whatever way it determines including as redistribution of income to enable right to life through food, clothing, shelter etc? "
Did you not understand?

@Alienbeing It fascinates me that you have no complaint that $billions of your income is tsken from you in order to steal property & destroy life of others through American military spending but you have a mental block about such money being diverted to the welfare of your American citizens. IMO your thinking is well & truly fucked up.

@FrayedBear Your mind works in strange ways. OBVIOUSLY once tax money is collected it is the Government's money. The POINT is whether or not collection of a tax with the sole intent to redistribute income is a proper function of Government. By "redistribution of income" I mean Government establishes a tax when collected is then divided up among other people who made less income that the aforementioned taxed people. That is the definition everyone I know (except your) attaches to "redistribution of income".

Other use of tax dollars is not "redistribution of income".

@FrayedBear You have NO CLUE whether I have a complaint of any use of tax dollars other than for redistribution of income.

The subject was (and remains) redistribution of income. You change the subject to something I never commented about then draw conclusions. I never even thought about the military in any response I maed to the topic "Redistribution of income". Your conclusion is based solely on your confused mind that cannot stay on topic.

Your minin is what is fucked up. Stay on topic, or if you can't do that then ask what I think about the new topic you are introducing.

@Alienbeing As your US military mainly consists of the underpriviledged white, black, hispanic etc. trying to lift themselves from poverty it is obviously a redistribution of wealth. What do you fail to understand in that? That the owners of armaments factories grow ever wealthier from sale of their products to the US military -what do you not understand in that being a redistribution of your income taken by taxes?

@Alienbeing now think of how lifting your fellow citizens out of poverty will benefit you personally through fewer muggings, burglaries, broadened tax bases . . .

@FrayedBear You apparently want to misuse English for you benefit, or simply don't know definitions.

When one chooses an occupation, whatever that choice is, it is NOT income redistribution. NO income is redistributed. NONE. What you are doing is making up your own definitions to suit your lame argument.

In your reply you again go off on a tanget about owners growing more wealthy. You simply cannot stick to the subject and your attempts to flavor the redistribution argument by throwing in other social ills is simply wrong.

Your second reply is so far removed from the topic that you clearly illustrate a very disorganized mind.

@Alienbeing Whatever you wish to think.👋👋👋👋👋

@FrayedBear Feel free to continue to argue with yourself, and by the way you never discussed income redistribution. One wonders what your position on actual income redistribution is.

@Alienbeing are you smoking bad dope or just a troll? The subject of the thread is “Why can’t we be calling for immediate equality? Why can’t we be thinking that big?” Your contibution started with your inerudite statement -

@FrayedBear YOU replied to me and as such I cannot be a troll. Maybe you are as slow as you sound.

_@Alienbeing Yeah, I really should stop arguing with such as you - I get dragged down to your level of stupidity.

These are Cipolla's five fundamental laws of stupidity:

  1. Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.
  2. The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.
  3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.
  4. Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.
  5. A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.

Corollary: a stupid person is more dangerous than a pillager.

@FrayedBear Your feeble attempt at insult is childish. Thus far you have discussed everything EXCEPT income redistribution. Now, once again you avoid the topic.

You are a pityful debater. When you know enough to stay on topic. let me know. Until then pet yourself on your back, you are the only one who will.

1

Do women first! They are a majority and the income inequality on them is pretty glaring. Then we can work on minorities.

1

Equity should be the goal. Starting with equitable access to education, for all children. Removing all barriers. Equitable access to higher education and vocational education for adults, should be available, if desired. Not measuring the successful outcomes for society as 'the use of education to earn a nominal income', or employment in a specified job (related to a chosen field of education). If every child had at least one parent with some higher education, the next generation would need less 'propping-up' to ensure equitable access to education and, eventually, equal opportunities for a fulfilling life.

LizZyG Level 5 Feb 20, 2021
1

There's few polls out there for Seniors who were downsized just prior to becoming senior. I make a fraction of the income I made in the late 90's up until W. tanked the economy in his search from WMDs when I was downsized. The question and answer choices are far too simplistic for me to select. "Seems reasonable" "Seems unreasonable": WTF is that anyway. Better question: Have we got to the dark side of capitalism and corporations running the country?

TreeSpirit Level 5 Feb 13, 2021
1

Totally oversimplifies things. I'm white, but I make far less than the median income for ANY group - and always have. Will I be given more money? Anyone who said "seems reasonable" is an idiot.

You missed the point which ws should incomes be equal irrespective of race.

@Alienbeing No, I got the point - it's "equality" as viewed by a 2-year-old.

@1BrentMichael How amazingly educated and mature you must be. Do you think everyone who has an opinion different than yours is a 2 year old?

I think you know you have no basis for your thoughts so you bark. Get lost.

@Alienbeing No, just people who can only see a complex subject in simplistic terms. But I can see you aren't capable of grasping the complexity, so I'll leave you to your Dunning-Kruger bliss.

@1BrentMichael Complex to you doesn't man complex to anyone else.

PS. Your feeble attempt at tryng to sound educated only reveals your inferiority complex issues.

1

Anything race based does not reward incentive, fortitude, knowledge & the access to such, inheritance, tax savvy. Centuries of inadequate everything does not make a fisher for life. We as a society must teach what works and what doesn't. Handing out money instead of teaching financial knowledge & leveling the competitive edge is the manner in which to provide equal chances for everyone. "The only thing I know about money is the government sends you a check", as spoken by a Little Sister of the Poor. Why hasn't school taught her about finance? Because school funding is based on property values. Hence the wealthy areas buy more education while the poor areas continue to languish. The inequitable education system if faulty. Fix that & we flatten the curve.

Mooolah Level 8 Feb 3, 2021

Knowledge/learning does not guarantee a job or the desire for one.

@FrayedBear It did for me.

@Mooolah you were fortunate.

@FrayedBear No. I educated myself when I could not get credit as a female without a man's signature. We changed that law. I spent less than I made. I invested consistently. I sacrificed what I wanted at a moment for the greater reward later on. The classic marshmallow psychology test that predicts the success of children in later life. True I was born mostly white. But as a square peg in a round world I embrace diversity which caused many setbacks. Fortune? Same as god.

1

Wealth redistribution is not the solution to the perceived problem.

1

How does this create incentive for individual striving to maximise contribution to society rather than the ultimate bludger?

1

Ooops, not qualified to vote really. Keep forgetting this is largely a US site.

Is it any better in Yorkshire?

@FrayedBear I do not know. How can a comparison be made? There are less than six million inhabitants here. The Rowntree Foundation has some information, which tends to be nationally based; I do not know of a similar organisation in the USA.

@1950debris
[jrf.org.uk]

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

The fact that pensioners now are the worst group in poverty simply indicates the ongoing senicide being perpetrated.

@FrayedBear Thank you.

0

I suggest equity over equality

Anvesh Level 5 Mar 11, 2022
0

What about the income inequality of those at the top and he rest of us, aided and abetted by Republican politicians at all levels???????????

wordywalt Level 9 Nov 24, 2021
0

Another "you gotta suspend any critical thinking you ever possessed" to even begin to wade through it. So sad about yer brain......

AnneWimsey Level 9 June 22, 2021
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