Courtesy of "Traditional and Folkmusic" Enjoy Ulic O'Boyle & the Australian Snowy Mountains Settlers singing the songs written by Ulic of those momentous times:

@FrayedBear Poor Pedro. Thanks, good song.

@girlwithsmiles if you are interested there are 2 CDs full of the Snowy scheme songs

@FrayedBear Thanks, will look them up.

Buy a pair of pigeons?

Until some bastard stabs you in the back?

@FrayedBear
It's always been lower class white people. That snuck up on me. Every single time.

@BOBdammit Currently for me German origined Lutheran's are my nemesis's

Where were you when USA malicious interference in Ukraine resulted in the fascist genocidal campaign against Russians in Ukraine?

If Conservatives hang on to religion, why is there a Group on this site named Conservative Atheists?

True! Psychopaths don’t have consciences.

Also no reason

What a load of crap.

@redbai I agree. They exist and it is a load of crap.

@Heavykevy1985 Not at all surprised you didn't get it. Kind of a pattern developing.

@redbai not at all surprised of the arrogance displayed by an ideologue and a racist such as yourself. The idea of white privilege and white supremacy is a bunch of hooey. No white guilt here. White people kick ass and make the world better everywhere we go. lol

@Heavykevy1985 Oh no. The ignorant bigot called me a racist. Whatever shall I do?

@redbai citation needed on that bigot claim. You are the bigot here since you bought into the whole institutional and structural racism narrative and try to beat white people like me over the head with it like some cudgel

@Heavykevy1985 Actually it was your racist trope "Black Victimhood" that brought up the whole "institutional and structural racism narrative" as that is of which blacks claim to be the cause of the oppression. But I know your racist nature won't allow you to recognize your own part in racism and anticipated your reflexive act of attempting to put it on someone else.

Racist are so predictable.

@redbai the only racist here is you. You assume that by dent of being white that I have oppressed black people. So essentially if you deny being a racist, you are one and if you are honest about being racist, you are one for sure. Robin DiAngelo Kafkaesque mind trap 101. You are an ideologue incapable of introspection. By the way, blacks like everyone else have agency over their lives. You saying that blacks have no culpability or agency for themselves demonstrates your racism bare for the world to see. Blacks like you teach generations after you that there is no hope like that character in “Menace 2 Society” teaching Cain that black people are just mere prey.

@Heavykevy1985 Since I never said that because you're white you are oppressing black people, I'd have to say that's a strawman in an attempt to avoid the real issue or a demonstration of poor reading comprehension skills.

"So essentially if you deny being a racist, you are one and if you are honest about being racist, you are one for sure."

See, that's the kind of stupid logic that makes it easy to infer that you have reading comprehension issues. I never said that denying being a racist makes a person a racist, nor did I say that it's what makes you one.

"You saying that blacks have no culpability or agency for themselves demonstrates your racism bare for the world to see."

Another stupid comment you attribute to me which I in no way said. But since you apparently don't have the ability to understand a perspective that doesn't agree with yours you would have a hard time comprehending what others say.

Menace 2 Society! LOL! Yeah, now I get it. Your impression of the black experience in America is limited to what you see in movies and you're not bright enough to distinguish that which you see in a movie from reality.

@redbai no. I encounter good hardworking black people every day who make no excuses for their lot in life, unlike you, who have this sense of entitlement, as if the world owes you something because you are black. I understand perfectly what you say because we have had this conversation before. You are a race-hustling ideologue who has an inferiority complex against a group of people because they have more success than the other. Instead God of the gaps, it is racism of the gaps.

@Heavykevy1985 There's more of that racist tripe racists spew when trying to pretend they aren't the disgusting beings they are. You encounter good hard working black people everyday? Really? And they actually have conversations with you about their lives that detail their hard working ethic and never say anything about the racism in this country? Only a racist idiot would think that even remotely reflects reality. Your lying. That's why your comment is just about some ambiguous black people that you "encounter", as if black people spew their political beliefs and work ethic to some random white guy who happens to "encounter" them.

You claim to "understand perfectly" and then rant some stupid racist crap that couldn't possibly reflect what I have said. Go watch another movie about black people and pretend you learned something.

@redbai yep I do. They are my coworkers. So you represent all of black people when they racism is holding them back? Otherwise, you would call them Uncle Toms. Mainly, the blacks and Hispanics that work with me have conversations about sports and gambling. Yeah, goes to show what you know. I hold a camaraderie with one my coworkers as a Saints fan. Geaux Saints! Never said anything about political beliefs. Might need some Bengay for that stretch you made there, fam. Once again, you are proving how much of an ideologue you really are. Not only you think that Black people are perpetual victims in a systemically racist system that they can never rise above, now you act as if you speak for all of them. Who is spewing the tripe here, homie?

@Heavykevy1985 Your black co-workers are telling you that there is no racism and that they simply work harder than all the black people complaining about victimhood? Your black co-workers detail their work ethic to you? I'm not going to call them Uncle Toms based on your word. I'm going to call you a liar.

You have camaraderie with someone because your both fans of the same team? Who gives a shit? And if they never spoke politics with you then there are two things very obvious: 1) They know you're a racist and don't want to take a chance of you complaining about them so they avoid politics and stays on a safe subject like sports. 2) You're so ignorant that you think that just because you can talk about a sports team with someone you have some insight into their life.

Black people talk politics with people they consider an ally all the time so not discussing it with you should say something about what they think about you. Black people know when a white person is too racist to even have the conversation with because racist do what you do here, dismiss it with racist tropes and assumptions. Why bother when you won't even give a black person's word any honest consideration? Racist like you are pompous enough to believe that you can tell black people what their experience actually is and can deny the black person's perspective of their own life.

You sound like an ignorant southerner from the antebellum south saying that black slaves like him because he can talk to them and they smile.

@redbai no. They do not have to bitch about racism because it is non-issue to them. An ally? Translation: a white person that nods their head in agreement with everything said by them. All they care about primarily is sports and making money. Even amongst themselves that is all is discussed. Never said that sports is all we talk about. Holy crap, you are really being uncharitable here. You will call them Uncle Toms if they disagree with you because you are an ideologue. I disagree with them on all sorts of shit. I have even discussed philosophy and politics with them. I will not give your word any consideration not because you are black: it is because you are bent towards a narrative. Everything that is said to you has to pass through that prism and what emanating from it is absolutely bunk. To put a bow on here, a person I have respect for, who is black, often discusses his dreams of owning a house to put on his land.

@Heavykevy1985 Please expand on black people telling you about how racism is not a problem for them. Tell me the phrases they use when explaining why all those black people protesting are simply programmed to accept a media narrative. Oh wait, you can't do that because you're lying. Making up crap to pretend that black people actually associate with you on more than a superficial level.

I"m not being uncharitable, you're simply lying. I find it amazing that you think you know what black people talk about "amongst themselves" as if after they have a conversation without a racist like you present, they then come out and tell you everything they talked about. Otherwise, how would you know what they speak about when you're not there? Oh wait, that's obvious BS and you apparently aren't bright enough to come up with a better lie.

Your need to change the definition of "ally" to something derogatory demonstrates the lengths you will go to propagate your ignorance. It's certainly not my definition, but then you are pompously and ignorantly claiming to know more about the black experience in this country than black people do. Another racist tactic, pretending to have knowledge about black people while demonstrating that at best they know OF some black people with whom they associate at work.

"To put a bow on here, a person I have respect for, who is black, often discusses his dreams of owning a house to put on his land."

A incredibly superficial comment about someone that doesn't demonstrate a thing you've said is true, and yet you put it out their as if you have demonstrated you know something relevant about their politics and personal life. Some shit they would tell a stranger standing in line for a burger, you think is some great insight into their personality and character. Everything you say about black people simply demonstrates your incredible ignorance wrt the same.

@redbai you are right: the protesters have accepted a narrative. The media has been telling them about oppressive this country is towards black and race-hustlers like you run with it. That is why the protesters have killed people, destroyed property, looted, and just totally chimped out. No answer I will give will be sufficient because as mentioned numerous times, you are an ideologue. The media selectively edited footage to make Nick Sandmann a villain while doing the same to make criminals like George Floyd to be victims. You are outclassed. You are not going to make me feel guilty about being white. Please bring up slavery, Jim Crow, and redlining because I know you race pimps like you have no concept of linear time. Go suck Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson’s dick some more.

@Heavykevy1985 "the protesters have accepted a narrative"

Another racist trope. Pretending that black people aren't bright enough or have the emotional and intellectual depth to define their own life experiences so it must be the media who are telling them how they should feel and act. It's not actual systemic oppression, it's the media manipulating the simple minded black people in some conspiracy to pretend they are oppressed. The logic of disgusting racists.

Provide EVIDENCE that BLM protestors have killed people. I say your lying as you've been doing all along. Spreading lies that racists tell each other as if they're an authority on the people of which they show such disdain.

I think it's kind of funny you think my goal is to make you feel guilty about being white. I have said no such thing. I couldn't care less about what you feel about being white. Why the fuck should I care about how you feel about being white or how you feel about anything else for that matter? Oh yeah. Racists always think it's about them. They're narcissistic assholes and you are a true representation.

@redbai okay. Gavin Long, a BLM supporter, killed two cops. David Dorn was killed during the protests last summer. A girl was killed for merely saying all lives matter. Secoria Turner was shot and killed in Atlanta. BLM marched and said slogans like “Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon.”

@redbai BLM is the very epitome of a movement centered around narcissism

@redbai Also, look at how easy it was to manipulate these moron protesters when came to Jacob Blake, who was in the wrong

@Heavykevy1985 Gavin Long is a BLM supporter? So BLM is responsible for people that support them but don't belong to their organization in any way whatsoever? So BLM is responsible for the actions of all black people now. I wonder if they know you gave them that responsibility?

All you've done is list some names. You haven't demonstrated that any one of them has anything to do with BLM. And the reason you lied about BLM killing people is because, like most racists, you never bothered to check if the lies you were proliferating about them were true. Like the racist you are you just assumed that black people run around killing people during protests without a shred of evidence to back it up. Just the word of some of your white racist friends and the right wing news narrative that fits what you want life to be. Now that you've actually been challenged to provide actual evidence of the lies you've been spreading you have none. You've discovered there's nothing in reality that backs up your stupid assumptions.

You're a pathetic racist who is also a demonstrated liar.

@Heavykevy1985 Still waiting on the topics of those "philosophical and political" conversations you have with black people that made you believe that they don't believe there is racism in America and that it's the news media manipulating all the ignorant black protestors into believing they're oppressed. Oh wait. That was a lie too, right? That's why you can't expand on the obviously superficial dialogs you have with black people that make you believe you actually know something about their lives.

@Heavykevy1985 redbai continually posts racists posts and then denies he has any agenda. He is either a liar, or has no clue.

@redbai No True Scotsman at its finest here, boyo

@Alienbeing I believe it. I figured the list of things that BLM is culpable did he would go No True Scotsman here on me

@Heavykevy1985 So because you need to identify blacks as protesting killers you misuse the "No True Scotsman" fallacy and hope that no one notices. Where's the evidence that those people where part of the BLM? Where's the evidence that any of them claimed to be part of BLM? You don't have it because it doesn't exist. They never claimed to be "Scotsman" in your false analogy, you claimed they were. So not only have you even demonstrated those people even exist, but you haven't demonstrated that they claim to be affiliated with BLM. That's why you don't explain why it fits the fallacy, you just hope people don't think about it and accept that you know what you're talking about. You know, the same thing you did when you accepted the racist assumptions you've been spewing during this whole dialog. But your racist desperation is grasping at anything to justify your disgusting beliefs regarding non-white people, even if it doesn't make sense.

But maybe I'm wrong. Why don't you explain why the "No Scotsman Rule" fits here. Given that I never denied their identity as black people but your ability to identify their beliefs and character traits. So, using your faulty analogy, I'm not saying they aren't Scotsman, I'm saying you are misrepresenting their beliefs as Scotsman not their identifying as Scotsman.

It's called nuance. Bigots like you aren't good with that, explaining your confusion. You might want to ask for help in differentiating beliefs from identity.

@redbai it fits because I gave you examples and you are trying to act as if they are not.

@redbai You sound like a tankie that defends communist regimes that have killed millions

@Heavykevy1985 Oh no! The bigot changed from calling me a racist without a shred of evidence to back it up to associating me with communist mass murderers which he also can't backup! Whatever shall I do?

You're desperately trying to denegate black movements by associating them to crime without a shred of evidence to back it up, textbook racist. You provided NOTHING that demonstrates that any of those people belonged to or acted with BLM, you just made another claim that you can't back up and make the assumption that because you and all your racist friends agree it's unreasonable for someone not in your racist circle to disagree.

@redbai they supported BLM. BLM does not have an extra official roster, shit-for-brains. Again, nice try with the No True Scotsman Fallacy. BLM is a movement that has used violence and destruction to try to achieve its aims. They are anti-capitalism, anti-nuclear family, racist, money-grubbing pieces of garbage. Fuck BLM and all of its supporters

@redbai by the way, stop blaming whites for all your problems. Stop success shaming, boy.

@Heavykevy1985 Did I say that whites are responsible for all my problems? Nope, so you, the racist bigot is telling me to not do things I'm not doing. Classic stupid racist.

The racist bigot is using vintage bigotry from the last century. Must have hit a nerve to have you resort to your grandpa's racist rhetoric. That's pretty satisfying.

So now BLM is anyone you want to call BLM allowing you to paint any crime by any black person on the organization. So using your logic I can claim you're KKK because I've never seen their roster either, but you certainly sound like a member or at the very least support their disgusting goals. You're could also be one of those traitors who invaded the capitol because a lot of stupid white racist appeared there and you certainly fit that bill. So I won't use your logic and tarnish all white people with your disgusting personality traits. That would be unfair.

This is continuing to be a wonderful exposure of your racist nature for the public to see. Please continue so that those who wish to see just how stupid your racist rhetoric sounds when challenged can enjoy the show.

@redbai Another person is racist in your opinion. Actually everyone who does not agree with you is a racist in your world.

@Alienbeing Poke.

You forget that Britain had its own slaves creating the wealth of the industrial revolution.

Only they weren't called slaves they were called the working class & were found throughout the United Kingdom having lives, living conditions, education & rights as intolerable as those of any slave.

@FrayedBear I agree. But that was after the industrial revolution started. I was showing how it was only made possible at all through slavery and colonisation that created the surplus wealth for Britain to industrialise.

@FrayedBear Please provide evidence that living as a free white person in London in poverty was just as bad as living as the property of a slaver in the south of America. Were the children of someone poor the property of someone else and could legally be separated from their parents and sold? Could another person legally take their spouse and sell them for personal profit? Could they marry? Did they have the right to leave and go find their fortune someplace else? If they decided to leave were they hunted down by officers of the law and dragged back, whipped and tortured and forced to work for their master? Were they allowed to worship using the religious practices they wanted to use?

The idea that a free poor white man in the United Kingdom were living in the same conditions as black slaves in the American South is just racist BS attempting to mitigate the horrors of white racism and it's effects on the world today.

@redbai Perhaps it goes to prove that hundreds of years of the treatment that you bitterly complain of had already whipped them into subservience?

Are you aware that there is no grading of human rights violations? In other words murder is as heinous as lack of freedom to marry who you wish.

@FrayedBear Yeah, people who have been "whipped" into "subservience" protest in the streets and create world wide attention to their issues with movements like over 250 slave revolts, a civil war and the Civil Rights movement in the middle of the last century and the BLM movement today. That's one of the stupidest things you've said so far.

I don't care that there's no grading of human rights violations and it sounds like a tangent to avoid the actual topic.

@redbai the topic is that it is in your head that I'm racist to you because you assumed that I'm white & that my words confirmed that. Geneticists say that we all came out of Africa so as normal for the ignorant you wish to label & accuse someone who has no truck with your accusations. Go back to your art.** I am not ashamed to be white because I had no choice in the matter & certainly have no control or influence on what other whites do to you or brothers. If you you don't like that fact block me, there are 6 or billion more people in this world some who do not carry disabling chips on their shoulders.

@FrayedBear There you go making ignorant assumptions. I have no idea if you're white or not and couldn't care less. Your ignorant rants about racism in America needs to be challenged in public so that people don't assume there is merit to them.

@Krish55 I thought that it was the invention of the steam engine & other machinery that resulted in the Industrial Revolution from 1760 on.
More interestingly is the fact that it was probably the wealth generated by the Industrial Revolution that led to the abolition of slavery in America.

@FrayedBear You are correct about that. However those facts do not contradict what I have said.

@Krish55 I hadn't realised that I was other than uour asertion thst slavery generated the wealth that gave rise to the industrial rvolution. I suggest that the industrial revolution broadened the extent of slavery to Mammon.

Americans aren’t happy until they find some group to hate. May even be a state law in some regions

@Canndue The hatred of atheists by some state legislatures is well known outside the USA.

@Canndue - It was state law in plenty of places in the US. I think most of those laws are either repealed or ignored, but the tradition that brought them into being lingers on.

Says the white guy.

@ReadyforaChange Oh I'm SO SORRY for being white.

@Storm1752 Please do not apologize for being white as none of us can help what skin we were born with. Apologize for your successes earned on the backs of the rest of us. Thanks.

@ReadyforaChange Excuse me? I've been a furniture mover and a taxi driver most of my adult life. I'm retired now only because a semi tractor trailer ran into the back of my vehicle and almost killed me. My successes? My 'success' is I'm still alive and finally out of the rat race, and I know plenty of white people just like me who would laugh in your face about any suggestion they're 'privleged.' You're talking about some delusion, not the real world.

@Storm1752 You refuse to accept the truth...done talking to you. Bye.

"Seen folks show their darker side. Seen 'em die just for foolish pride." - Jackson Browne. One of my favorite lyrics to quote. The song they're in is about the temporary nature of existence but the value we put into it.

Add major defects of personality to the list.

Oh go storm the capitol or something goofy.

The traditional saying is that "pride comes before a fall".
I simply say "I'm not ashamed" and when it comes to place, country, year of birth & parentage you had no say in it. Therefore to take pride from that occurrence is nonsensical.
Similarly the colour of your skin was not determined by you.

@FrayedBear

Please, do elaborate on that saying.
("pride comes before a fall" )

Maybe people use the word pride
in the terms of "I'm proud of my skin, because I'm honoured to be put in the same group as those other people associated with it"
like being proud of them in end effect.

Nonetheless, yes, it does sound like taking other people's achievements to boost one's own self-esteem. Like, "person X and Y is one of my people, guess what achievements and traits you are to associate with me"

Else, what do you think of the idea on self-affirming oneself with feelings of pride in order to boost one's self-esteem?

@theodore33 if you didn't do it you are deluding yourself if you think that the mantle of other's worthy achievement is yours to subsume to boost your feeling of self worth.
There are many problems in this world that are caused by people thinking that they have a right & genuine benefit from such assumptions - Donald Trump & the delusion of MAGA immediately springs to mind.

@FrayedBear
Well explained, thank you for that!
Thus we both agree on this point.

Thus being proud of the people in association is alright, whereas boosting one's ego with pride for achievements never achieved is rather unjust.

Now either way, I won't judge someone who says they're proud to be this and that (something they didn't choose to be), because they might mean they're not ashamed.

As one of the definitions for proud is:
having or showing respect for yourself:
example:
"He might be poor but he's also proud, and he won't be pushed around by anyone."

found it here:
[dictionary.cambridge.org]

Language is fun,
you can use words that can mean very different
things. A wise man once said "The more I think
about language, the more it amazes me that people
ever understand each other at all.”

@theodore33 I like your symmetry of word layout. Very neat..
Thanks for the compliment.
Just as our eye-brain makes assumptions about what we see our ear-brain makes assumptions according to what we want to hear.
Frequently people who have been conditioned or indoctrinated cannot hear or read what is presented to them because of it.

@FrayedBear
You're welcome!
Thank you for your compliment!
My texts tend to be very long, so I have to do it for the sake of a comfortable reading experience. XD

Very true indeed!
Is it perhaps them refusing to see it in a different light? One I have discussed something with outright refused to see the proof I was willing to provide for something, but they still tried to convince me I were wrong. Maybe they see contradictions as sly and deceitful attempts to promote something wrong.

@theodore33 in most cases I suggest yes. However I've just had the unpleasant experience of the Post Office stealing my mail for a year. When found out & questioned, someone not in the plot accidentally gave me the bundle of mail stolen over the previous 9 months, they stated that the officially redirected & paid for redirection service, was to a non existant Post Office. The fact that other mail redirected for 12 months the previous year to the same location was of no consequence. The excuses made were "it's an LPO not a PO!", "We ran out of printed labels" (so why was it not delivered to my street address?), as my phone number & email address is known to the Post Office why was I not contacted. As a result of this theft I did not receive car registration & insurance renewal notices, bank statements, replacement Visa card which resulted in my closing the bank account to say nothing of the inconvenience of not having the card.
Now am I reading perfectly valid reasons for the theft or simply sly & deceiptful gaslighting to hide the fact that one or more people have been running a vendetta against myself or the LPO owner?