Seems to me that in the opinion of many on this board, women have Bodily Autonomy when it comes to ...

xenoview comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I believe a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion. I'm vaccinated and plan to get the booster shot soon as I can. I think everyone should get vaccinated to help end covid.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 11, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay "and as such that everything else they say is on this topic is irrelevant to me because I personally do not want all blacks dead." This doesn't follow logically. Just because you don't want the same thing as someone else doesn't mean that anything that have to say is irrelevant because a. they can vote or change the minds of other people who vote so it very much could affect you and b. wasn't it you just the other day that misquoted Aristotle saying, “It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it"? "you are incredibly biased against humans, to the extent that you want them all dead" This also doesn't follow logically. Just because you want something to stop reproducing (die off) doesn't mean you want all existing instances of that thing to die. Even if it did, it still doesn't follow that my arguments are invalid or illogical. Are you saying one's thoughts on a type of thing are inextricably tied to all your beliefs about how it should exist or not? If one doesn't believe in capital punishment does that mean they love convicts? What if there are layers to these things? It would be impossible for a KKK member to think it's wrong to enact laws that are bad for black people even if the reason is that it's also really bad for white nationalists? In order for an Ad Hominem to not be a fallacious argument, you have to show reasoning why the things you're claiming invalidate their argument. Give the fact that I said women should be allowed to CHOOSE whatever they want in regards to a pregnancy, it's going to be pretty hard to claim my disdain for humans, collectively, means my arguments about bodily autonomy are invalid. And finally, in trying to draw a parallel between those two, you have made the classic illogical blunder of conflating arbitrary and non-arbitrary reasoning. It's as dumb as saying hatred of racists is the same as racism because you think "hating a whole group of people is the exact same thing no matter what defines the group". You are off the reservation on this topic. You are making illogical argument after illogical argument and as much as you claim to be neutral on the topic at this point ("only asking questions to see where you stand") it seems to several of your readers that it not at all the case. If you still think it is, you need to take a step back and reassess why you're making so many nonsensical claims seemingly in deference to the pro-life argument.

Seems to me that in the opinion of many on this board, women have Bodily Autonomy when it comes to ...

xenoview comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I believe a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion. I'm vaccinated and plan to get the booster shot soon as I can. I think everyone should get vaccinated to help end covid.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 11, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay I can't tell if you're joking. If you're not, how can you possibly conclude that? Just because I think someone * should * do something doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to CHOOSE for themselves what to do, hence pro-CHOICE. Uugh, if you're not joking I'm pretty disappointed because you should have been able to see this on your own.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 11, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay So, end result: Do we agree your initial question/premise in one of these posts about 'my body, my choice' was based on a false equivalency? Do we agree people can call the abortion of fetuses whatever they want, but there's no justification for restricting access to it because none of the pro-life arguments supercede bodily autonomy? And we can't agree that my phrasing was fair as far as parasitic, even though you said, "Of the 252 hits you'll get, you will find many papers that draw correlation between pregnancy and parasites" which I believe is all I was doing too AND it's completely irrelevant to my argument. But instead of focusing on the part of my argument that destroys the pro-life/women become forced incubators argument, you ran down the parasite tangent as if winning that point invalidated my argument.

Seems to me that in the opinion of many on this board, women have Bodily Autonomy when it comes to ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 7, 2021:

Thats very easy, first of all that is a strawman statement about the people on here. Because lambasting someone for making a choice, is not the same thing as saying that they should not have a choice. I for one would defend anyones right to refuse any medical procedure, even at the cost of my, ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 11, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay I didn't see this until rereading through. @Fernapple, that quote was of me, so I'll respond. "But it kinda does if you can't work, travel, or go in public without a vaccination, doesn't it?" Not really, you can still choose not get the vaccine. The question is: does society have a right to protect itself from members that won't pitch in and do their part to protect others and the answer has to be a resounding 'yes'. Maybe the risks of Covid aren't such that the premise is readily apparent to you. Dial it up a bit and see if the argument makes sense then. Let's say someone [or a lot of people] had been severely irradiated (cause, irrelevant) such that they could irradiated others. Should society and its private entities be allowed to install geiger counters to prevent affected people from entering and harming others? Now let's suppose there was a medication that could be given that would a. reduce the likelihood you could get irradiated from someone else who was, b. drastically reduce the harm the radiation would cause to your body and c. reduce the likelihood that if you had been irradiated, you would irradiate others or severely harm them. You still don't think society has a right to severely limit participation in society by individuals who wouldn't participate in the protection of the society they want to participate in? It's a two-way street... And this would even extend if there wasn't a vaccine. If someone had Ebola they would be force-quarantined, so we can't really pretend that "work, travel, or go in public" is so sacrosanct that we can't deny it if someone refuses a vaccine when as a society we agree we can deny it even if there isn't a vaccine you can choose to take.

Seems to me that in the opinion of many on this board, women have Bodily Autonomy when it comes to ...

silverotter11 comments on Dec 7, 2021:

My body my choice as applied to the covid vaccine is *not* the same as applied to abortion - last time I checked men have never needed to have an abortion. Vaccines are also not banned anywhere in the world, abortions are banned in many places and in some have pretty sever penalties for getting ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 11, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay Again, you keep framing the first part of that slogan as taking about the fetus, and it's not, it's talking about the effects on her body. They intend to throw the fetus in the trash, so why would you think * that's * the genetic material they're talking about?! They are talking about their uterus, their nutrients, and every other part of THEIR body that will be affected by a pregnancy. As for suicide, yes, it's a contradiction, but the solution is to correct the ban on suicide, not ban abortion. Pointing out that contradiction during an abortion debate amounts to, "Hey, that law is wrong, let's make this law wrong too so we're consistent!" and happens to be a variant of a Tu Quoque logical fallacy.

Seems to me that in the opinion of many on this board, women have Bodily Autonomy when it comes to ...

xenoview comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I believe a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion. I'm vaccinated and plan to get the booster shot soon as I can. I think everyone should get vaccinated to help end covid.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 11, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay You laugh, but I 100% agree with that statement. Humans are fucking terrible and we should stop reproducing until we die off.

Seems to me that in the opinion of many on this board, women have Bodily Autonomy when it comes to ...

p-nullifidian comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I have not seen anyone advocating “forced” vaccination. If such a policy were attempted it would seem unlikely to be upheld by the courts. Bodily autonomy is bodily autonomy, whether we’re talking about abortion, suicide, or vaccination. Individuals still have the right to refuse to be ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 11, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay You're missing a key difference between * sexually * transmitted infections and * droplet/airborne * transmitted infections. For STIs you can protect yourself by not engaging in risky sexual behavior, but for things like covid, you can only partially protect yourself. If, however, an STI mutated and became transmissible without sexual contact, the same rules for interacting with society would then apply. Not quite sure how you didn't see this false equivalency as you were typing it.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 10, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay I guess I have to paste this again... "What we found next was most unusual. It appeared the placental NKB contained the molecule phosphocholine which is used by filarial nematodes, a type of parasitic worms to escape host immune systems! I have had two or three 'Eureka!' moments in my career. This one, at 63, I am happy to bow out on." The human foetus and placenta have a different genotype from the mother. ** The foetus has been described before as acting in a parasitic way: ** it avoids rejection by the mother and exerts considerable influence over her metabolism for its own benefit, in particular diverting blood and nutrients. Now it would appear the similarities go much further. Although the mode of attachment of the phosphocoline (PC) is different in the mammalian placenta, its presence is startling. "When we saw this, our immediate instinct was to look at other proteins in the placenta. So far, from what we have seen, it appears a large number of them possess this cell surface molecule which ** cloaks them from the host immune system," ** Lowry continued. [reading.ac.uk] . "It may be concluded, therefore, that on a low plane of nutrition, ** the foetus lives as a parasite, ** the tissues of the foetus having a prior claim on the nutrients circulating in the maternal blood" [cambridge.org]

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 10, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay A G A I N . . . I'm not saying it * IS * a parasite, I said it was parasitic in nature, and the literature apparently DOES support that. And no, those views aren't consistent based on the reasoning I gave to allow abortion, (that a woman should be allowed bodily autonomy) as bodily autonomy does not give you just cause to kill a prisoner. And of course, as I stated before, it doesn't matter if it's a person or a life or whatever else you want to call it.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 8, 2021:

The question is Not, never legitimately, been about When life begins! (P.S. the Babble says, clearly, it is when the first breath is drawn, period). The question is, WTF are you to tell someone else what to do with not only their next 8-9 months, but for 20 +/- Years of their life?.....

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay So @AnneWimsey, was I off base? Or was my assessment of what you meant and how he mistook it spot on? I don't think my "flavor" is topic dependent, so I haven't considered that. My flavor is: what makes sense that I can logically support. Is it logically consistent with my other beliefs.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay First of all, definitions of parasites from your own source do not list parasite as necessarily detrimentally harmful, so your conclusion that we should eliminate all of them does not follow logically. Secondly, I never said it was a parasite, I described the relationship as parasitic. The research articles describe a parasitic relationship, so I disagree my description was inaccurate. Finally, it may be uncomfortable for people, but I guess that wouldn't be unlike me agreeing to call abortion 'killing a person' as long as it remains perfectly legal... 😉

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay "What we found next was most unusual. It appeared the placental NKB contained the molecule phosphocholine which is used by filarial nematodes, a type of parasitic worms to escape host immune systems! I have had two or three 'Eureka!' moments in my career. This one, at 63, I am happy to bow out on." The human foetus and placenta have a different genotype from the mother. The foetus has been described before as acting in a parasitic way: it avoids rejection by the mother and exerts considerable influence over her metabolism for its own benefit, in particular diverting blood and nutrients. Now it would appear the similarities go much further. Although the mode of attachment of the phosphocoline (PC) is different in the mammalian placenta, its presence is startling. "When we saw this, our immediate instinct was to look at other proteins in the placenta. So far, from what we have seen, it appears a large number of them possess this cell surface molecule which cloaks them from the host immune system," Lowry continued. https://www.reading.ac.uk/news-archive/press-releases/pr9938.html . "It may be concluded, therefore, that on a low plane of nutrition, the foetus lives as a parasite, the tissues of the foetus having a prior claim on the nutrients circulating in the maternal blood" https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/FE3C75CA91EF14B39FE4419B107241E5/S0029665169000085a.pdf/the-foetus-as-a-parasite.pdf You found one source that * mentions * two species. Here are research articles that detail scientific reasons how the fetus acts in a parasitic manner. You sure there's a scientific consensus??

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 8, 2021:

The question is Not, never legitimately, been about When life begins! (P.S. the Babble says, clearly, it is when the first breath is drawn, period). The question is, WTF are you to tell someone else what to do with not only their next 8-9 months, but for 20 +/- Years of their life?.....

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay "Not when it comes to their asking and your executing: in both cases, you have the freedom to accept or deny said request." No. Just no. It's the difference between asking someone to do something and asking them to do it with a gun to their head. That is what she was talking about. And I am genuinely concerned. I've debated you a thousand times, and this does seem a little beyond your "usual Middlewayness". I'm wasn't trying to call you a liar, I'm sorry you took it that way, but more like you were answering a different, very literal version of the question even though you really knew what she meant. I wouldn't call that a lie, personally.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay I Googled "parasite definition" and none of the definitions on the first page of results specified it had to be a different species. What source are you using for this definition?

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 8, 2021:

The question is Not, never legitimately, been about When life begins! (P.S. the Babble says, clearly, it is when the first breath is drawn, period). The question is, WTF are you to tell someone else what to do with not only their next 8-9 months, but for 20 +/- Years of their life?.....

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay Anne said you can't tell people what to do for 9 months let alone 20 years. You flippantly said anyone can tell anyone what to do. But telling someone what to do as a random person on the street and legislating what someone can do are two COMPLETELY different things. If you didn't understand that after what she said and my multiple clarifications of it, then you're not a liar, but I am worried about you.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 8, 2021:

The question is Not, never legitimately, been about When life begins! (P.S. the Babble says, clearly, it is when the first breath is drawn, period). The question is, WTF are you to tell someone else what to do with not only their next 8-9 months, but for 20 +/- Years of their life?.....

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay I * know * abortions will continue to happen, but claiming that you can ignore an abortion ban the same way you can ignore a random person "telling anyone what to do" is dishonest.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

KKGator comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Legally speaking, no one can be forced to donate blood, tissue, organs, or bone. That's settled law. So, it would stand to reason that no woman should be forced to gestate any pregnancy. Women aren't broodmares. No woman should be forced to house what basically amounts to a parasite, if she ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay "Clearly to you is not clearly to me" Well, you've consistently and repeatedly made the argument regarding doing something to another's DNA. So whatever your beliefs/lack there of, that has been the point/side you've been arguing.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

KKGator comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Legally speaking, no one can be forced to donate blood, tissue, organs, or bone. That's settled law. So, it would stand to reason that no woman should be forced to gestate any pregnancy. Women aren't broodmares. No woman should be forced to house what basically amounts to a parasite, if she ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay You did it again. I Ironmanned your argument for you and you still just parroted what I had already conceded then didn't respond to the follow up. What is going on with you lately? If I invited you to hold my arm, then asked you to stop, you didn't stop, and in an attempt to get you to stop I injured you, I would not be liable for your injuries.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 8, 2021:

The question is Not, never legitimately, been about When life begins! (P.S. the Babble says, clearly, it is when the first breath is drawn, period). The question is, WTF are you to tell someone else what to do with not only their next 8-9 months, but for 20 +/- Years of their life?.....

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay Telling someone they can't do something with the threat of punishment doesn't mean they can freely ignore you, so it's not at all the same thing as "anyone can tell anyone what to do". Don't be intellectually dishonest.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

KKGator comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Legally speaking, no one can be forced to donate blood, tissue, organs, or bone. That's settled law. So, it would stand to reason that no woman should be forced to gestate any pregnancy. Women aren't broodmares. No woman should be forced to house what basically amounts to a parasite, if she ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay "But making a decision for your DNA (blood tissue organs) is not the same as making a decision for another's DNA (fetus)." You keep saying this as if people need to do something other than to their own body to abort. If I want to scrape the inside of my uterus (or take a pill), I should be allowed. If that explants a fetus, then too bad for that fetus * (provided that fetus would have survived gestation and would have grown into a person that was happy they were born, which not everyone is). * But in any case, it's no different than if I want to run my hand down my arm rapidly. If your wrist happens to break because you were grabbing on to me, too bad for you, you shouldn't have been grabbing me. And I'll even Ironman the argument and you could say, "But you can't break the wrist if you invited someone to grab your arm." To which I'd reply, "You can if you tell the person to stop touching you." To which you might say, "But you can't tell a fetus to stop touching you." And I'd say, "Sure you can, it's not your fault they don't have a brain or ears yet, or even the ability/volition to let go, but that shouldn't change one's ability to exercise bodily autonomy because of it did, that would mean the fetus would be exercising rights over the woman's body or "making decisions for her DNA instead of just their own" which you are clearly against. So if one has to go over the line (if that's how you want to characterize it), it should be the one that's not dependent on the other.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 8, 2021:

The question is Not, never legitimately, been about When life begins! (P.S. the Babble says, clearly, it is when the first breath is drawn, period). The question is, WTF are you to tell someone else what to do with not only their next 8-9 months, but for 20 +/- Years of their life?.....

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay It will if it gets legislatively mandated, that's her point.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

LadyLinK comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Abortion has always been a thing and will always be a thing... we should keep it as SAFE as possible so women don't end up dead in alleyways and hotel rooms.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 9, 2021:

@LadyLinK Oh, wait, I wasn't talking about selling children into sexual slavery, I was talking about black market babies to circumvent the adoption system. And I'm not talking about * stealing * organs per se, I'm talking about financial compensation for "a donation" to a rich individual that's trying to skip the organ list. Those miscommunications aside, proponents of abortion bans, who think abortion is legalized murder of another human being, would say that exact same thing about abortion; they can't believe an advanced democracy would allow the murder of defenseless citizens.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

LadyLinK comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Abortion has always been a thing and will always be a thing... we should keep it as SAFE as possible so women don't end up dead in alleyways and hotel rooms.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

@LadyLinK You don't need to convince me of your conclusion, we're already in 100% agreement on that. Actually, it would be impossible for you to find someone who's * more * on women's side in the abortion debate because I believe in ABSOLUTELY ZERO restrictions on abortion whereas even a majority of women believe there should be * some. * And I don't think if it's a life or when life begins should have ANY seat at the table because it's completely irrelevant in my book. If a woman wants a baby to stop living off is her, for any reason, at any time, she should be allowed to abort it. Period. The rest of that shit is just noise. And my hypotheticals are not absurd. At all. People * DO * sell children (and organs), and it would be safer for the children if there was governmental involvement and oversight. Those are facts. But does that mean we should allow the sale of people?

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

LadyLinK comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Abortion has always been a thing and will always be a thing... we should keep it as SAFE as possible so women don't end up dead in alleyways and hotel rooms.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

@LadyLinK If people are going to sell an organ or sell a child, it would be much safer, cleaner, better if they did it with the governments approval and resources. Should the government provide approval and resources for these things? I'm sure there are tons of examples of things we shouldn't give governmental approval for just because it would be safer when people did it anyway. * That's * why it's not a good argument. I still agree with your conclusion, just not for the reason you gave.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

LadyLinK comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Abortion has always been a thing and will always be a thing... we should keep it as SAFE as possible so women don't end up dead in alleyways and hotel rooms.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

@LadyLinK I'm not saying you did, but in assessing the merits of an argument, you should look and see if the reasoning holds true to validate it. If 'people will do it anyway...' isn't a good reason to allow other things, what is your justification that it is for abortion i.e. what makes abortion different that makes that argument viable?

Go, California! California Plans to Be Abortion Sanctuary If Roe Overturned [apnews.

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 8, 2021:

Subsidized bus trips? I would donate to that! An actual abortion takes about 1/2 hour at most,& no sedation, they could be back late the same day if coming from close-by states....pretty cheap! From Texas maybe 2 overnights at Motel 6 or whatever (group rates!!!)

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

The legal fees and $10,000 settlements will add up though.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

LadyLinK comments on Dec 6, 2021:

Abortion has always been a thing and will always be a thing... we should keep it as SAFE as possible so women don't end up dead in alleyways and hotel rooms.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

As much as I agree it should be safe and 100% legal, 'people are going to do it anyway, so let's make it safe and easy for them' is not really a good argument or the standard you'd want for all laws.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

JackPedigo comments on Dec 6, 2021:

From my readings we do know life (writ small) is not a newly fertilized egg. One major item missing from the pro-life movement is that it's not pro-life but pro extinction of life other than human. We have created the 6th great extinction due to a major loss of bio-diversity. This has been dubbed ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay “Life is a self-sustaining chemical system capable of Darwinian evolution” In what way exactly is a fetus "self-sustaining"?

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

waitingforgodo comments on Dec 6, 2021:

There is no debate, abortion is legal

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay I do not think it's slim. Judging from what was said during oral arguments, I think abortion will be illegal in many areas of the country by next summer. * So much so that I'm considering buying a shit ton of plan B in May. *

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay "It matters in understanding your viewpoint if your viewpoint is contrary to scientific consensus though." I'll say it more clearly: my viewpoint doesn't care if it's a * technical * parasite, something behaving in a parasitic manner, completely neutral, or even symbiotic in nature. A woman should not be forced to provide for a thing growing inside her for any reason whatsoever. 'Re-read what you originally wrote: you made no mention of her removing her uterus with a embryo or fetus inside." Re-read what you originally read, apparently I made a typographical error, but it's still fairly obviously that I said 'a pregnant woman'. "Not ignored. I addressed directly why I thought the example didn't apply, namely that you were not responsible for giving the soccer player the disease and thus there is no reason to hold you responsible for it." Which addresses the morality of the issue. You are saying that you should be legally responsible because you were morally culpable for the creation of the fetus. I showed why the morality shouldn't be the basis for the legality, thus, the principle applies to all pregnancies, not just rape. "Which means that if they make abortions legal, then that's that and it's legal..." Yes, but your OP was asking about "My body, my choice." If we agree that should be the standard, then abortion * wouldn't * be made legal or illegal based on who's in power. The Left isn't ever saying, "Your body, not your choice," only the Right is. Your claim about vaccines (or masks, whatever) was already pointed out to be a false equivalency by several people. "After all, there can be no equality when one party can become pregnant but they other cannot." I'm not asking for it to be equal, I'm asking for it to be fair. "admit that it's alive to satisfy those that think that way. And yes, admit that it's killing them. But at the same time admit that it's for the greater good of the individual and society for that baby to be killed." I'm fine with all that, and I think most women are too. Call it whatever the fuck you want, as long as you don't turn me into a forced incubator. I may take issue with the phrasing if it's then used to try to justify capital punishment, the stark difference being that you don't have to force a particular person to care for them for them to continue living.

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 8, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay It doesn't matter if scientists call it a parasite (which some do, I just Googled it and saw that exact phrasing in a research study from Cambridge) because it's still essentially a parasitic relationship. Anyway, I don't know why you're stuck on this tangent, it doesn't influence or advance either of our arguments. I'm not claiming you should be allowed to abort a fetus * because * it's a parasite, so we can probably stop arguing about whether or not it's a parasitic relationship. "Hence that a woman drinks an aborticide rather than having a doctor extract the fetus/embryo doesn't change the issue of personhood which I feel is at the core of the issue" Was this thought unfinished? There's no punctuation and the intent of the preceding sentence is unknown. Are you saying that abortifacient drugs are acceptable because the woman should be allowed to take whatever medicines she wants into * her * own body? I assume that would have to be your stance because you said a woman could have her uterus removed with a fetus inside and that would be okay. As for the soccer player, all you did was parrot what I had already conceded, and then ignore all of the reasoning why it is applicable to the rest of pregnancies, most notibly why what is moral (if we can even determine that) should not be a basis for what is legal. This also brings up another issue. Are you only arguing what is moral here? Because "My body, my choice" has NOTHING to do with mortality, only legality. Women aren't marching so that people will all think it's moral for them to abort. They are marching so that they can have the option to abort. If I could concede we all call it immoral as long as it becomes permanently, irrevocably, completely legal to abort with no restrictions, I'm in. To me that's no different than our women being allowed to walk around with their faces and heads uncovered while it's deemed immoral in other parts of the world. Essentially, I don't care what people I don't care about think about what I want, I only care if they can affect me as a result. One more tangent: responsibility in creation of the fetus shouldn't have bearing on whether or not you're forced to be financially responsible for he resultant child. Safe-haven laws allow a parent to relinquish control and responsibility for a child. Since men have exactly 0% control over whether or not a child gets aborted or carried to term, there's no appreciable reason why they shouldn't at least be allowed to exercise their right to essentially "safe-haven" the child to the woman. If the women doesn't want to raise it alone [without your money] she can also exercise that right and turn the child over to the state. This is even more reasonable considering our court system has consistently upheld the ...

I think the abortion debate is putting the cart before the horse because we have no widespread ...

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 7, 2021:

I your assessment begs the question, why do you think the definition of 'life' is even relevant? If you simply believe that one owns their own body and shouldn't be forced to carry a parasitic organism in it regardless of how people define it, that solves the debate i.e. even if it's a life, that ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 7, 2021:

@TheMiddleWay "Because I don't consider an embryo a parasite." Regardless of whether you consider it a parasite, it's still a parasitic relationship. "And according to DNA, it is not the mothers body." You're splitting hairs, because I'm obviously taking about the woman's body and only the woman's body, but fine. Then if they're so separate, you shouldn't have any problem with a prrgnant woman wanting to take an abortifacient into * her * body, or get a hysterectomy to remove * her * uterus from * her * body. If you do, then you're saying the fetus' has greater rights over the woman's body than the woman does. "That is one possibility that isn't talked about" I don't know why this isn't the * only * thing that's talked about. No other argument matters. And there are very clear examples one could use to show why this is the most important factor. Here's one: You awaken after a drunken night out to find yourself in bed with a famous soccer player. He has a fatal blood infection, and his fan club has discovered that you have the right antibodies to cure him. They have kidnapped you, and connected your blood supplies together so your immune system can fight his infection. If he's surgically disconnected from you he will die, but if he stays connected to you for 9 months before being separated, he will live. Does the soccer player have rights to your body making you obliged to stay connected to him for 9 months regardless of what you want? This is more adequately a parallel for pregnancy resultant from rape, but the premise stands: who has more claim to the woman's body, the self-sufficient woman herself, or the fetus that's living in her and off her? Furthermore, if we were to argue this morally (as you seem want to do) either it's immoral to abort or it's not. If it is, the * cause * of the pregnancy (consensual vs rape) should be irrelevant. So, since we should still allow a woman to abort to satisfy her bodily autonomy * [at least in the case of rape] * then it follows that the morality (regardless of whether we've even determined abortion is in fact immoral) of the issue is irrelevant to determining what should be legal.

Seems to me that in the opinion of many on this board, women have Bodily Autonomy when it comes to ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 7, 2021:

Thats very easy, first of all that is a strawman statement about the people on here. Because lambasting someone for making a choice, is not the same thing as saying that they should not have a choice. I for one would defend anyones right to refuse any medical procedure, even at the cost of my, ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 7, 2021:

Guess I don't need to write out a lengthy reply... "Pro-vaccine" does not mean forced vaccination.

Usually when the block comes, I feel disappointed, but occasionally, there is a sense of pride that ...

ChestRockfield comments on Nov 29, 2021:

What you said was * technically * true, and you were very civil while she was not... That said... I have a real problem with the framing of your argument. To state thing X, which seems to only be for the purposes of causing thing Y, with zero mention or regard for the necessarily resultant ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 6, 2021:

@RoboGraham "Bad" and "good" are subjective terms and your determination/use of them is not sufficient for deeming my analogy logically fallacious. Furthermore, I didn't make a parallel to * not * smoking, I made a parallel from suppressing appetite * via smoking * which could be labeled "bad" to not voting for Biden/ voting for Trump which could be labeled "bad". Please understand the argument and the logical fallacies before you attempt to use them.

I still have my CDs and DVDs but no longer have the device to play them.

Lauren comments on Dec 5, 2021:

I have everything but the wall calendar. Paper menus are still the easiest way for a group to order, and the last time I thinned out my DVDs and CDs, they disappeared from other resources, so I'm not making that mistake again.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 5, 2021:

THIS. Google Play Music fucked everyone over.

I never would have guessed so many gentlemen didn' t want kids .

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 4, 2021:

Is the first sentence supposed to read * wanted * kids instead of didn't want kids? Either way, kids are the pits. You made the right choice.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 5, 2021:

@duchessa1 Well, that's certainly the best reason. And you make a really valid point. If kids were * good * for the environment, I still wouldn't want them.

Who do you believe about Russiagate?

linxminx comments on Dec 4, 2021:

I don't think Trump solicited help from Russia in the election because, quite frankly, I don't think he is that smart. However, influencing the election using social media did happen in 2016. Netflix's The Great Hack is a compelling and revealing documentary about how this happened. It's called ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 5, 2021:

@linxminx The, "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing" isn't clear and direct enough for you?? I'm kind of at a loss how that could be * more * clear or direct...

Who do you believe about Russiagate?

bobwjr comments on Dec 4, 2021:

Trumpleforeskin always lies he asked for their help

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 5, 2021:

@dalefvictor That video above is him asking Russia to hack us and find emails...

Every time . Yeah . My life

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 4, 2021:

You could always live in a home without dogs...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 5, 2021:

@Pralina1 You both suggested that you couldn't live with a cat alone. But they can be everything you need, especially because there's no downside of them being super high-maintenance like dogs are.

Every time . Yeah . My life

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 4, 2021:

You could always live in a home without dogs...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

@LucyLoohoo Cats are amazing if you give them a chance.

Every time . Yeah . My life

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 4, 2021:

You could always live in a home without dogs...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

Or doorbells.

I never would have guessed so many gentlemen didn' t want kids .

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 4, 2021:

Is the first sentence supposed to read * wanted * kids instead of didn't want kids? Either way, kids are the pits. You made the right choice.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

@duchessa1 That's both true and shitty. I'm sorry you and any other childless woman has to deal with such nonsense, especially when you've done a great service to the environment.

Who do you believe about Russiagate?

dalefvictor comments on Dec 4, 2021:

If you have read any of the documents about trump and what he has done, treason would be the least of his charges. If it is possible for him to do something that will increase his money or power he will do it no matter what, or how many have to die.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

Treason could never be the * least * of any set of charges, but I take your point. He's a scummy pile of shit and no amount of terrible things that could ever happen to him would be enough in my book.

Who do you believe about Russiagate?

linxminx comments on Dec 4, 2021:

I don't think Trump solicited help from Russia in the election because, quite frankly, I don't think he is that smart. However, influencing the election using social media did happen in 2016. Netflix's The Great Hack is a compelling and revealing documentary about how this happened. It's called ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

I mean, but he did. I posted the video of him doing it. That video is Trump, himself, debunking all the people on Agnostic who think Russiagate was a hoax.

Who do you believe about Russiagate?

RichCC comments on Dec 4, 2021:

Why should we listen to TFG? He's a constant, consistent liar. From the link *** Trump made the remarks in question during his first campaign, saying, “Russia, if you’re listening — I hope you are able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

We should listen to him explicitly ask for a foreign power's help. Several people on Agnostic think Russiagate was a hoax, but you can hear him clear as day being a traitor.

Who do you believe about Russiagate?

racocn8 comments on Dec 4, 2021:

I believe the Mueller Report that says Trump's campaign had more than 100 contacts with Russian agents, some of them involving the provision of polling and demographic data which Russia then used to effectively deploy social media bots. Bannon and Manafort provided the data, and Flynn helped ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

Out of curiosity, did you watch the video or follow the link?

I never would have guessed so many gentlemen didn' t want kids .

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 4, 2021:

Is the first sentence supposed to read * wanted * kids instead of didn't want kids? Either way, kids are the pits. You made the right choice.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

@duchessa1 It's just confusing because you said the men insulted you for not wanting kids.

4 dead, 8 injured (5 critically.

Serenityseeker comments on Dec 2, 2021:

There just aren't words to fully express my anger and disgust with parents like them.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 4, 2021:

@Lorajay Agreed. Which is why I'm concerned about big picture gun legislation and the horrible shit-fuck Republicans that would rather hundreds of children get shot to death while trying to learn than fail to suck the dicks of the gun lobby groups. I don't have children. Never will. And I almost don't care about * anything * anymore. I'm pretty close to not giving a fuck about this either. (Which is why I didn't even bother responding to that other woman who apparently already knows everything there is to know about gun violence; I don't * have * to care about children getting slaughtered. I could vote like a scum-of-the-Earth-Republican and it wouldn't affect me at all other than to have to shrug off every subsequent lifeless body of a child as a small price to pay to be able to buy guns at will.) But for the potentially very short time I still do, I'm going to speak as loudly as I can. REPUBLICAN POLICIES ARE MURDERING YOUR CHILDREN. That is not hyperbole. On to your point about locked up parents being unable to "give" a kid a gun. You know who else can't? All of the people that don't have/can't buy guns anymore. I don't disagree with you, it's just that you're describing putting a band-aid on a severed artery here.

4 dead, 8 injured (5 critically.

Serenityseeker comments on Dec 2, 2021:

There just aren't words to fully express my anger and disgust with parents like them.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

@Lorajay I'm talking about where to best concentrate efforts (and place blame and anger). Preventing the one in a million double child in one household school shooter seems like a red herring to me. Great, punish the parents for being idiots, but no one should sleep better tonight if they're sending their kids to school tomorrow because of it.

4 dead, 8 injured (5 critically.

Serenityseeker comments on Dec 2, 2021:

There just aren't words to fully express my anger and disgust with parents like them.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

@Lorajay Are there a lot of separate shooting sprees perpetrated by siblings?

I think we have a hit...

p-nullifidian comments on Dec 2, 2021:

I know this is supposed to be funny, so why am I not laughing and seething instead? 😡

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

@Lizard_of_Ahaz No one wants me to be wrong more than me. Trust me. My ass would be a smiling, smug-ass motherfucker rolling around in the news of Trump going to jail like a pig in shit. I've just seen these criminal fucks get away with everything for far too long to think we'll see any real justice.

I think we have a hit...

p-nullifidian comments on Dec 2, 2021:

I know this is supposed to be funny, so why am I not laughing and seething instead? 😡

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

@Lizard_of_Ahaz So just to clarify, when that rancid pile of Cheeto shit asked a foreign power to hack into government servers and steal emails, and they did, that wasn't over the line?

I think we have a hit...

p-nullifidian comments on Dec 2, 2021:

I know this is supposed to be funny, so why am I not laughing and seething instead? 😡

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

@Lizard_of_Ahaz That's what I'm saying. These scummy fucks have been getting away with borderline treason for years. What's changed?

I think we have a hit...

p-nullifidian comments on Dec 2, 2021:

I know this is supposed to be funny, so why am I not laughing and seething instead? 😡

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

@Lizard_of_Ahaz except there isn't a coffin. Do you think any of them are going to jail? Doubt it.

Brian Tyler Cohen - Top Democrat goes megaviral, gives SPEECH OF THE YEAR [youtube.com]

BD66 comments on Dec 2, 2021:

The technology and manufacturing come from the private sector. When Democrats talk about "investing' in technology and manufacturing, they mean they want the government to pick winners and losers. The US government (and most other governments) are notoriously bad at picking winners and losers, so ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

You have to be a special kind of slow to still be touting "trickle-down economics."

Brian Tyler Cohen - Top Democrat goes megaviral, gives SPEECH OF THE YEAR [youtube.com]

BD66 comments on Dec 2, 2021:

The technology and manufacturing come from the private sector. When Democrats talk about "investing' in technology and manufacturing, they mean they want the government to pick winners and losers. The US government (and most other governments) are notoriously bad at picking winners and losers, so ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

@Willow_Wisp Excellent.

4 dead, 8 injured (5 critically.

KKGator comments on Dec 2, 2021:

But, but, but... Her emails! The 2nd Amendment! Parents' rights!! Abortion!!

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

I loved how you perfectly predicted exactly what the first dumb fuckin' Republican asshole to comment would do. Brava. Fuck Republicans.

4 dead, 8 injured (5 critically.

Serenityseeker comments on Dec 2, 2021:

There just aren't words to fully express my anger and disgust with parents like them.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

Is that the best place to direct your anger? There are 1.2 guns for every single person in America. Our policies have a direct casual chain to dead children. Republicans consistently uphold these policies. There will ALWAYS be more dumb parents because our country is a majority of dumb people. Putting the dumb parents in jail * after * the school shooting doesn't do those dead children any good. Republicans are the common denominator.

4 dead, 8 injured (5 critically.

CourtJester comments on Dec 2, 2021:

How about the deaths in Chicago, New York, and LA this year under democrat rule??? How about that?

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 3, 2021:

Who invited Captain Whataboutism?

Three Reasons “You” Won’t Return After This Life

Canndue comments on Oct 2, 2021:

Whether you come back or not is fun to debate. My question is, if you could, would you want to?

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

Fuck no. One go around on this shit hole is too much. To choose to come back again, when the planet is in drastically worse shape, could not be the decision of anyone whose actually thought about the proposition intelligently for more than two seconds.

Three Reasons “You” Won’t Return After This Life

BufftonBeotch comments on Oct 3, 2021:

People who do claim to remember past lives always seem to claim to have been royalty or some other person of great importance. But if this farcical notion had any validity most people would be recalling memories of bleak poverty, disease and drudgery.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

Maybe not, I hear reincarnation machines are really expensive, so it would make sense that only the rich come back...

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

CourtJester comments on Dec 1, 2021:

Personal responsibility includes sex too. (Excluding rape). You can buy the Plan B pill at Walmart for christ sake. Make wiser choices and it shouldn’t be an issue.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

Should she have bought Plan B from Walmart?

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 1, 2021:

If I've said it once, I've said it 42,863 (now 42,864) times, I FUCKING HATE REPUBLICANS.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

@CourtJester I don't know what you're taking about anymore. What's an administrative decision? Didn't vote for whom? Even if Operation Mockingbird was 100% true, what would that have to do with our conversation?

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

GrooshStar comments on Dec 1, 2021:

I don't see why men should be having a say in this issue at all. It's a women's body and should be a women's decision.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

@GrooshStar Okay, good, we are on the same page. Yeah, I hate hearing people say only women should get to vote on this issue because it's completely illogical, begs a ton of questions (like is it all women, or only those that can get pregnant, etc.), and may not result in the desired outcome.

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 1, 2021:

If I've said it once, I've said it 42,863 (now 42,864) times, I FUCKING HATE REPUBLICANS.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

@CourtJester I'd be here for it. I want to die anyway, and that would give me a good reason/ justification for gambling on almost certain death. Unfortunately, there couldn't really be a Civil War the way it was before with the geographical divide. But that's not what I meant by doomed, I meant the irreparable fabric of our democracy. More likely as we descend into chaos, others, probably China and Russia, will take full advantage and demote us from our current standing.

In Hindsight, Crossing Horse, Demon, and Nazi DNA Was Probably a Bad Idea

FrayedBear comments on Dec 2, 2021:

Aha, an article written by one of @JeffMurray's buddies?

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

I wish I had friends like that dude, he's as funny as M.T.G. is shitty.

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

GrooshStar comments on Dec 1, 2021:

I don't see why men should be having a say in this issue at all. It's a women's body and should be a women's decision.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

@GrooshStar There may have been a miscommunication here. You said: "I don't see why men should be having a say in this... ...should be a women's decision." And "Her body, her life, her decision." How can it be a decision for women to make and also each individual woman? Unless you misspoke? But if that's the case you should have realized there was simply a miscommunication upon reading my reply. But I think we're on the same page? So there's no confusion about my position, there should be no legislation regarding regulation of reproductive rights. Women should be allowed to abort any time for any reason. Any restriction, no matter how small or seemingly inconsequential, can be abused to trample on individuals' reproductive rights, thus, there should be zero such restrictions.

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 1, 2021:

If I've said it once, I've said it 42,863 (now 42,864) times, I FUCKING HATE REPUBLICANS.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

@CourtJester Under anyone, the extreme divide of the people will be our downfall.

Hmmm ...........

Shaggy2018 comments on Dec 1, 2021:

But it only worked once. Then every time I looked they were all right side up. Interesting.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 2, 2021:

@MichelleGar1 It's basically fun, real-world examples/puzzles/demonstrations of findings in neuro-science and psychology.

Hmmm ...........

Shaggy2018 comments on Dec 1, 2021:

But it only worked once. Then every time I looked they were all right side up. Interesting.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@MichelleGar1 I think it's over, maybe? Used to be on Netflix. Just Googled, looks like it's on Disney+ now?

Hmmm ...........

Shaggy2018 comments on Dec 1, 2021:

But it only worked once. Then every time I looked they were all right side up. Interesting.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@MichelleGar1 Did you watch the show Brain Games? Strongly recommend it.

I saw conservatives posted the lie that Biden cut oil production.

BD66 comments on Dec 1, 2021:

It's not a lie. Oil production is still below pre-covid levels: 12,966,000 barrels were pumped in November 2019 when oil was $59 per barrel 10,809,000 barrels were pumped in September 2021 when oil was $76 per barrel https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/production/#oil-tab ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@BD66 Again, that's not the only concern. If the financial effects of the existential crisis of global warming are softened as a result of these policies, we might be * saving * a certain percentage of money not losing it. I just don't know. Not sure it really matters to me, specifically, though as I'll likely be dead before I run out of money regardless of the gas prices, have no offspring, and don't give a fuck about all the horrible people that will be left on this shit planet when I go.

Hmmm ...........

Shaggy2018 comments on Dec 1, 2021:

But it only worked once. Then every time I looked they were all right side up. Interesting.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@MichelleGar1 Ooh, saw them upside-down again. Is it the bottom right plate that flips them for you?

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 1, 2021:

If I've said it once, I've said it 42,863 (now 42,864) times, I FUCKING HATE REPUBLICANS.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@CourtJester And this is why our country is doomed.

If you get caught in the act of Mass Murder—you get put to sleep.

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 1, 2021:

Nonsense. You can't * know * someone's guilty. We've put too many innocent people behind bars and in the ground to be arrogant enough to think this is a good idea. I hope someday proponents of the death penalty end up wrongly convicted, thereby removed from the electorate. ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@Tourirst So you're suggesting that US citizens should not be entitled to an appeals process?? That's even more ridiculous than your original post.

I saw conservatives posted the lie that Biden cut oil production.

BD66 comments on Dec 1, 2021:

It's not a lie. Oil production is still below pre-covid levels: 12,966,000 barrels were pumped in November 2019 when oil was $59 per barrel 10,809,000 barrels were pumped in September 2021 when oil was $76 per barrel https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/production/#oil-tab ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@BD66 Fair enough. I agree that Biden enacted policies that were hostile to oil production. Don't know if I think that's a bad thing though. I spend maybe an extra $10-15 a month compared to a year ago. If that reduces climate effects that save me the same or more later in other costs, sounds like a decent deal.

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 1, 2021:

If I've said it once, I've said it 42,863 (now 42,864) times, I FUCKING HATE REPUBLICANS.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@CourtJester The difference is we have logical, rational reasons for our hatred.

I saw conservatives posted the lie that Biden cut oil production.

BD66 comments on Dec 1, 2021:

It's not a lie. Oil production is still below pre-covid levels: 12,966,000 barrels were pumped in November 2019 when oil was $59 per barrel 10,809,000 barrels were pumped in September 2021 when oil was $76 per barrel https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/production/#oil-tab ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

Did * he * cut oil production??

If you get caught in the act of Mass Murder—you get put to sleep.

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 1, 2021:

Nonsense. You can't * know * someone's guilty. We've put too many innocent people behind bars and in the ground to be arrogant enough to think this is a good idea. I hope someday proponents of the death penalty end up wrongly convicted, thereby removed from the electorate. ...

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

@Tourirst 1. I do not agree we should kill anyone. 2. What is "far worse" is obviously subjective and relative. 3. Why allow people to sit in jail? 1. It is * somewhat * reversible where death isn't. 2. Sitting in jail is less expensive than killing the prisoner.

Can you imagine … abortion becoming legal and overturned in the USA in the same lifetime?

GrooshStar comments on Dec 1, 2021:

I don't see why men should be having a say in this issue at all. It's a women's body and should be a women's decision.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

I disagree with that. Women, in general, should have no no more say over what an individual woman can do with her body than men. Why does it matter what genitalia someone has when they're shitting all over your reproductive rights? Would you really be okay with it if it was only all [hard-core, right-wing] WOMEN that took women's reproductive rights away from them? I doubt it. Please stop parroting that line.

Me being in a mean mood.

Cast1es comments on Dec 1, 2021:

Speed limits are , "just suggestions ," in the same way vaccines are suggestions . Ignore them and you die .

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

Going slow is more dangerous than going fast. https://suttoninsurance.com/blog/why-slow-driving-can-be-dangerous/#:~:text=Driving%20slower%20than%20the%20surrounding,could%20lead%20to%20an%20accident.

Me being in a mean mood.

p-nullifidian comments on Dec 1, 2021:

Bottom line: In the US, drivers need to keep right, except to pass. Too many selfish people in this country plant themselves in the passing lane and try to assert their right to do so because they’re driving at the speed limit.

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

Right? Get the fuck out of the way! In PA they ticket those punk, bitch-ass motherfuckers for impeding traffic.

The most disgusting person this week.

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 1, 2021:

The time was mostly no doubt for the child porn, a Very serious crime! But the poor dog!!!!!!

ChestRockfield replies on Dec 1, 2021:

If you watch the video, it is apparent he's serving NO time for the child porn. This country is FUCKED. They care more about dogs than black people (or child welfare).

@yvilletom just blocked me because he doesn't understand what a joke is.

altschmerz comments on Nov 30, 2021:

He took that post too seriously, and damn it escalated quickly.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

I mean for fuck's sake, it was posted in silly, random, & fun. Then I * told * him it was a joke, and he * still * said he didn't believe me. Even if he didn't take it as a joke, it's not like I said I fucked his mom, I was commenting on the fucking word of the year. How much lower-stakes of a thing can you possibly get worked up about? Fuck that dude.

@yvilletom just blocked me because he doesn't understand what a joke is.

Tejas comments on Nov 30, 2021:

I've never blocked anyone on this site. For sure I know I'm blocked by at least 4 people. I understand why and it's OK.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

@Tejas Alienbeing, redhog, LovinLarge, mofo1953, Marionville, Mitch07102, LenHazell53, Larimar, hankster, Duchessa, LiterateHiker, yvilletom, and that's just what I know about...

@yvilletom just blocked me because he doesn't understand what a joke is.

Castlepaloma comments on Nov 30, 2021:

I heard agnostic.com is up for sale. Maybe you can buy it and turn it into a way you like . Personally I like it because it's open enough and more tolerance than most forum sites I've experienced. Even though many discriminate non vaxxers like me most.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

And I don't have anything against the personal choice to not Vax. I am, however, vehemently opposed to anti-vaxxers using false information to get others to be anti-vaxxers.

@yvilletom just blocked me because he doesn't understand what a joke is.

Castlepaloma comments on Nov 30, 2021:

I heard agnostic.com is up for sale. Maybe you can buy it and turn it into a way you like . Personally I like it because it's open enough and more tolerance than most forum sites I've experienced. Even though many discriminate non vaxxers like me most.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

No interest. I don't even like it enough that I'd care if it folded forever.

@yvilletom just blocked me because he doesn't understand what a joke is.

Tejas comments on Nov 30, 2021:

I've never blocked anyone on this site. For sure I know I'm blocked by at least 4 people. I understand why and it's OK.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

4? Step up your game, bro. 😝 I'm blocked by a ton of people.

@yvilletom just blocked me because he doesn't understand what a joke is.

Castlepaloma comments on Nov 30, 2021:

They have a right to block , which has been done to me. Yet, I think it's really lame to not be open enough to opposing ideas or gestures.. I wouldn't want to join a club, where everyone was just like me.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

A right? I guess you could call it that. Doesn't make him any less of a pussy bitch, though.

@yvilletom just blocked me because he doesn't understand what a joke is.

FearlessFly comments on Nov 30, 2021:

Perhaps it should be a rule, that ONLY folks who have blocked NO ONE can post here. :)

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

As a general rule, I don't think blocks should exist. Either you can discuss something rationally and intelligently, or you can't. If you are a continued nuisance, or continually fail to use reason, you should just be banned from the site. For a long time, I didn't block anyone, but I've taken to blocking people who blocked me. People shouldn't get to say their piece and block you can then continue to view/participate in the conversation without you knowing what's being said. Short of eliminating blocks, the blocks should only work on direct messaging. Why should a block control what you can say publicly? If the person doesn't want to read or respond to you, they're more than welcome to refrain. This site has gotten pretty ridiculous anymore. I have no other social media, but I don't think I'll be too sad when this site crashes and never recovers.

Usually when the block comes, I feel disappointed, but occasionally, there is a sense of pride that ...

ChestRockfield comments on Nov 29, 2021:

What you said was * technically * true, and you were very civil while she was not... That said... I have a real problem with the framing of your argument. To state thing X, which seems to only be for the purposes of causing thing Y, with zero mention or regard for the necessarily resultant ...

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

@RoboGraham It should be pretty clear. I made a perfect parallel to your argument with Wisp. Your X = Factual statement about why you think Biden is bad. Your Y = people may refrain from voting for him or actively vote for his opponent. Your Z = Trump gets 4 more years in office. Cigarette X = Factual statement about cigarettes being an appetite suppressant. Cigarette Y = Young girls may start smoking to try to lose weight. Cigarette Z = Cigarettes are tremendously harmful and addictive, cause systemic healthcare problems, and increase insurance rates and healthcare costs for everyone.

I am, once-again, perplexed that the word of the year isn't cuntbag.

yvilletom comments on Nov 29, 2021:

Fuhgedit. Geddalyf. Where did you get your hatred for body parts? Did religion do it to you?

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

@yvilletom Do you believe that I think you're a fuckin' idiot?

I am, once-again, perplexed that the word of the year isn't cuntbag.

barjoe comments on Nov 29, 2021:

I prefer the the Philly colloquial term "jitbag" a word that I use quite frequently. I don't think I could ever use your word of the year for 2022. Sorry Jeff.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

@barjoe We don't think that's a little silly? Makes me think of how it's perfectly acceptable to draw the Prophet Muhammad, and even mock the concept of it being forbidden, but elsewhere it's about the most egregious thing you can do.

I am, once-again, perplexed that the word of the year isn't cuntbag.

barjoe comments on Nov 29, 2021:

I prefer the the Philly colloquial term "jitbag" a word that I use quite frequently. I don't think I could ever use your word of the year for 2022. Sorry Jeff.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

@barjoe Yeah, I reserve all iterations of 'cunt' for men 99.9% of the time... "People offended by the C word would hear it a lot less if they didn't go around acting like such cunts." - Ricky Gervais

I am, once-again, perplexed that the word of the year isn't cuntbag.

yvilletom comments on Nov 29, 2021:

Fuhgedit. Geddalyf. Where did you get your hatred for body parts? Did religion do it to you?

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 30, 2021:

@yvilletom I wrote it. Nothing in there suggests I "hate body parts". And you should be smart enough to know that telling me to reread my own post wouldn't alleviate the confusion; if your point was readily apparent, I wouldn't have asked what you were taking about in response... This was supposed to be an irreverent * joke * (who here is dumb enough to think I'm actually suggesting 'cuntbag' be the word of the year, raise your hands) and you're mucking it all up with this nonsense. Maybe religion made you hate a body part... * the funny bone. * 😝

I am, once-again, perplexed that the word of the year isn't cuntbag.

barjoe comments on Nov 29, 2021:

I prefer the the Philly colloquial term "jitbag" a word that I use quite frequently. I don't think I could ever use your word of the year for 2022. Sorry Jeff.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 29, 2021:

@barjoe My sister had a neighbor who couldn't mind her business to save her fucking life that she dubbed Mrs. Cuntinsky. It's too excellent of a word for how much Americans are hung up on it. I guess Americans have a ton of silly hangups with words though.

I am, once-again, perplexed that the word of the year isn't cuntbag.

yvilletom comments on Nov 29, 2021:

Fuhgedit. Geddalyf. Where did you get your hatred for body parts? Did religion do it to you?

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 29, 2021:

What are you taking about?

I am, once-again, perplexed that the word of the year isn't cuntbag.

barjoe comments on Nov 29, 2021:

I prefer the the Philly colloquial term "jitbag" a word that I use quite frequently. I don't think I could ever use your word of the year for 2022. Sorry Jeff.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 29, 2021:

Watch some British comedy, it really softens the word and makes it accessible!

Looks like I have been blocked by the pro gun rights group.

anglophone comments on Aug 10, 2021:

Ah yes, @Wildgreens, that sensitive little soul that blocked me for pointing out relevant facts. I wonder if she feels lonely in her own little bubble of alternative facts.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 29, 2021:

No, she probably has tons of friends in her head.

Looks like I have been blocked by the pro gun rights group.

FearlessFly comments on Aug 10, 2021:

I agree that your comment(s) did not deserve removal. "Another statistic from the fantasy world you live in." You started your comment with ad hominem (and used it in this post). :P You provided no link to credible source(s) for your claim(s) in those comments. . . . but neither did ...

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 29, 2021:

@FearlessFly I think people inaccurately label insults as Ad Hominem attacks, which not all are. If I said, "Hey, Wildgreen you fuckin' idiot, there's some statistics detailed right here that shows that, 'So far, in 2021 there have been at least 259 unintentional shootings by children, resulting in 104 deaths and 168 injuries nationally, according to the group's #NotAnAccident Index.' https://www.npr.org/2021/08/31/1032725392/guns-death-children" that would not be a fallacious Ad Hominem (and if we're being honest, wouldn't even be an unfair or untrue way to phrase it).