Davesnothere's Profile

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 24, 2018:

@AxeElf You still MISS my point "The next step is identifying what you are discussing" I AGREE--YOU have not done that, you have instead labled a mystery, assigned attributes to that mystery, put a hat on the mystery labled God, and call that God. I Still do not know WTF you are actually talking about. In your MIND, I am sure you have a notion, I do not share that notion. THIS "What impetus makes you think you need to determine if such a fantastic being exists?" IS NOT asking you to prove God IT IS asking you WHY make that assumption to begin with? WHY is it rational to ASSUME a fantastic superbeing, if you have no evidence of a fantastic superbeing? WHY ponder the nature of said Superbeing, when you are the one who assigned it all the attributes? HOW is that distinguisable from pure fantasy? HOW is that rational or valid in the slightest?

If we're serious about drawing distinctions between "acceptably dangerous" and "unacceptably ...

Davesnothere comments on Feb 23, 2018:

I think there is a simpler solution to guns in America. Equate them to the automobile. Firearms are lethal ordinance and require responsible operator capable of safely owning and handling them. So too is the automobile. With that item we require testing, liscencing, inspections, and insurance, ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 24, 2018:

@jayneonacobb IS your Militia UNDER the Command of the CiC? Then I would argue it is not actually a Militia in the sense the term was used in the Constitution, but rather a Hobby group of like minded survivalists. Can the Governor muster you? Can the POTUS? "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Neccessary to the SECURITY of the state, not, as the Militas here are mostly, an athema to the State, full of fear of deep state and gov and prepared to stand against what the constitutions sets them up to defend. So our definitions OF milita is not the same. The right of the people to keep and bear arms, as wirt, is DEPENDENT upon those well regulated Militas (read National Gaurd today). Further the SCOTUS has already ruled that ARMS does not include many things, assault weapons included, but also fully auto M60 Machine Guns, 20 mm anti aircraft, missiles, right up to nukes. ALL arms in the loosest sense, NONE Arms as the original writers intened or imagined. Your idea of a right as being unailenable and unchangeable is flat out wrong. We assigned it that staus, and we can remove it as well. The very same document makes Blacks 2/3's of a white and women have no rights at all. We had to add those. IF it is our right to own and use firearms, it is our responsibility to make sure they are owned and used by responsible sane humans. Incidentally, I too was raised in gun/hunting culture, on the farm, shooting at 11. I also served in the Army for many years. Since you have no issue with your right, I find it frankly, cowardly, to shirk responsibility FOR such a right as the ownership of lethal ordinance. Why would you stand for YOUR right OVER the need to protect vulnerable chil;dren from madmen? Especially when you can keep your weapons AND ensure their safety by simply BEING RESPONSIBLE, testing, liscencing, and insuring them like autos? In essence, what makes YOUR right to your weapon MORE IMPORTANT than a childs right to life itself? God did not grant you a right to and AR or a Ford, Humans granted you a privalage, and NAMED that a right. Go ask a Japanese American pushing 70 about your rights and see how illusory they are.

Pseudo intelligence.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 18, 2018:

Being ignorant does equal a lack of intelligence. There are nine types of intelligence; some people have a few, some have one, some seem to have none. I know nothing about rocket science, but I can discuss the symbolism in poetry and am an expert on the novel Frankenstein and archetypal myth.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 24, 2018:

@Gwendolyn2018 To a true fan of Shelly, it is a sacrilige. I TRY not to carry that baggage, the baggage of literature, to film, as the mediums are very different and the artists expression result from screedplays which are entirely different. The costuming is fine . . .

I thought I might make a brief post about Ignosticism.

Scoobs comments on Feb 19, 2018:

Why stop there? Seriously... You realized you had no reason to assume the existence of god (thereby making a discussion of the nature of god somewhat moot).....but is this your only initial assumption? The initial assumption every one of us seems to make is that logic and reason are reliable ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 24, 2018:

@Scoobs I think assessing assumptions is valid, but if you do not have some initial assumptions about reality, then we can proceed no further intellectually. This is a nice critique of this very issue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9x_oa--KAc part two is valid too

If we're serious about drawing distinctions between "acceptably dangerous" and "unacceptably ...

Davesnothere comments on Feb 23, 2018:

I think there is a simpler solution to guns in America. Equate them to the automobile. Firearms are lethal ordinance and require responsible operator capable of safely owning and handling them. So too is the automobile. With that item we require testing, liscencing, inspections, and insurance, ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 23, 2018:

@jayneonacobb the key to that phrase is the opening I think, are YOU in a Militia? noun a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency. ARE YOU, as a gun owner subject to INSTANT DRAFT for combat? The Right of the People to keep and bear arms is to ensure a well regulated Milita, we have a professional army. NOR is my comparrison about rights VS privalages It is about how we HANDLE Lethal Objects, ONE we insist on a slew of regulations, the other we bypass by convienient interpretations of a centuries old document, the authors of which in no way intended to cover weapons which they could not even imagine. IF you are responsible enough to Drive, we consider you responsible enough to train, test, and insure your vehicle. WHY would you seek to AVOID such tests? You think it is YOUR right to infringe on others right to life itself by not being competent, sane or proerly trained and insured? Do you think a human interpretation of that Phrase is of more import than the lives of others?

If we're serious about drawing distinctions between "acceptably dangerous" and "unacceptably ...

Captnron59 comments on Feb 23, 2018:

Once they decide to take our guns we are all in for the fight of our life... literally! Tyranny always takes away people's right to defend themselves so that they can control every aspect of life within said country. It's happened too many times in the past.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 23, 2018:

Not sure how anyone thinks this is an arguement. Do you think you can fight our military with Ar's and the like? Think you can shoot the drone you cannot see before it shoves a hellfire up your ass? AT BEST, in an outright Tyrannical power grab, all your Ar's and Ak's make you is the Talibhan living in caves, an insurgency hunted by drones and worse. Technology seems to me to have outmoded this arguement.

Pseudo intelligence.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 18, 2018:

Being ignorant does equal a lack of intelligence. There are nine types of intelligence; some people have a few, some have one, some seem to have none. I know nothing about rocket science, but I can discuss the symbolism in poetry and am an expert on the novel Frankenstein and archetypal myth.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 20, 2018:

@Gwendolyn2018 LMAO at the moment, here we discuss this, which is not a common topic of conversation, and when I go to my netflicks what do I see as new offerings? The Frankeinstein Chronicles, a new Netflicks series. LOL You know an author hit a nerve when their work is done, and redone, and reinterpreted in every concievable fashion through history. Sometimes in interesting fashion but most times in a way i find ignorant of the originals depth. BUT I will savor every drop, good or bad most likely, can't decide what I think until I give it that much right? I've an Abby Normal Brain ya know

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 20, 2018:

@AxeElf an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "argument to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it, often concisely encapsulated as: "If many believe so, it is so." So to argue that 2 billion people believe in God, therefore it makes sense to assume a Fantastic Superbeing called God simply does not follow. You said "We make the assumption that God exists so that we can talk about God." THEN you define what God is AND you cannot show any evidence of that God How is that any different than pure imagination? Actually I have not really talked about God, I have tried, in vain to get you to DEFINE what it is that God is INSTEAD you told me what God can do, its attributes, all knowing, all powerful, everpresent, all good--NOT A WORD ABOUT WHAT it IS. I spent more than a decade doing what you are, before I asked myself why I was assuming a superbeing. Using an AD Populum as your rationale tells me that part of you sees that as a valid reason for BELIEF, and these rationaizations and ponderings are how you rationalize your God Model, how you make it remain sensible to your mind, how you keep your idea intact. Tell me when you can show it to be more than just your idea.

Pseudo intelligence.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 18, 2018:

Being ignorant does equal a lack of intelligence. There are nine types of intelligence; some people have a few, some have one, some seem to have none. I know nothing about rocket science, but I can discuss the symbolism in poetry and am an expert on the novel Frankenstein and archetypal myth.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 20, 2018:

@Gwendolyn2018 I always thought her clique, and the creation of the book quite interesting, as well as the work, especially in historical context. Still I expect we could have many fine conversations

I thought I might make a brief post about Ignosticism.

icolan comments on Feb 19, 2018:

I too am an Agnostic Atheist. I don't agree on the point of the discussions being pointless because we can logically argue against the claims and definitions made by theists, and hopefully convince some of them that their claims are logically inconsistent and without merit. As for the assumption...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 20, 2018:

From your position you can argue against that position. BUT do you have those internal thought processes, do you debate these notions in your own mind anymore (if you were once theist) BUT that initital questing, that seeking for the solution to the "great mystery" itself ASSUMES the great mystery IS GOD, and then inserts God into the gap. It left me as a boy endlessly pondering God, based upon indoctrination and cultural tradition.

I thought I might make a brief post about Ignosticism.

Scoobs comments on Feb 19, 2018:

Why stop there? Seriously... You realized you had no reason to assume the existence of god (thereby making a discussion of the nature of god somewhat moot).....but is this your only initial assumption? The initial assumption every one of us seems to make is that logic and reason are reliable ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 20, 2018:

The problem, as ypu point out is that that is a dead end and pointless. We only have what we have, and as such we can either take those initial assumptions like "I Am" to build upon in our shared reality. Nihlism and Solipism as dead ends as well, and void of any validity.

Pseudo intelligence.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 18, 2018:

Being ignorant does equal a lack of intelligence. There are nine types of intelligence; some people have a few, some have one, some seem to have none. I know nothing about rocket science, but I can discuss the symbolism in poetry and am an expert on the novel Frankenstein and archetypal myth.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 19, 2018:

Tell me, are you fond of this too? "This is the Hour of Lead – Remembered, if outlived, As Freezing persons, recollect the Snow – First – Chill – then Stupor – then the letting go –"--E.D.

Pseudo intelligence.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 18, 2018:

Being ignorant does equal a lack of intelligence. There are nine types of intelligence; some people have a few, some have one, some seem to have none. I know nothing about rocket science, but I can discuss the symbolism in poetry and am an expert on the novel Frankenstein and archetypal myth.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 19, 2018:

OOOO-- we can discuss Shelly? That sounds FUN, your sounds like a fine brain to pick!

Pseudo intelligence.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 18, 2018:

Being ignorant does equal a lack of intelligence. There are nine types of intelligence; some people have a few, some have one, some seem to have none. I know nothing about rocket science, but I can discuss the symbolism in poetry and am an expert on the novel Frankenstein and archetypal myth.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 19, 2018:

Only 9?

Is there a reason we should speak respectfully of the dead?

I_dont_know comments on Feb 19, 2018:

One time I stood at my father's grave and "swore like a sailor" due to the feelings that he instilled in me from childhood. I shared this with a nephew. My sister, his mother, later told me I desecrated his grave! I didn't come back with a retort then. I'm thinking now she was wrong. How can you ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 19, 2018:

When my mother died I wanted to Honor her request of final words on her headstone (Dark/Black Humor) "I have PROVEN cigarette smoking is hazardous to your health!" My siblings saw it as Sacrilegious and would not assent. YET, at her service they had the sheer audacity to have FLOWERS! Which I saw as sacreligious as she ALWAYS SAID "Give me flowers when I can smell them, not when I am dead and they are useless" since I was a small boy. I insisted, on her behalf, that each person take one and smell it in her stead, since they did not recall her words, which I repeated. We all greive differently, and what you see as Honoring the dead might well offend another.

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 19, 2018:

@AxeElf Axe, Again I seem to miss my mark. I have not as yet read your entire response, but I want to say FIRST, that I have enjoiyed this discussion and its peaceful nature, I think it shows folks can hold differnt positions and not be assholes. I commend you for your class in this.--NOW to go read . . . I also want to respond to your first line --" Like I said before, if you keep expecting me to produce evidence that God exists, or to try to prove that He exists, then we're done here, because I will do no such thing." BECAUSE I think this is where you and I keep MISSING each other. I am not asking you to Prove God, as I said about the above definition I don't think that could be done. I AM asking you "WHY make that assumption to begin with?" THIS "If you want to talk about God, then you have to assume that He exists for the purposes of the discussion, or else what are we talking about?" IS kind of Ignosticism in a nutshell. IF your are going to make assumptions in philosophy, then it is best to make the smallest ones possible. To Assume "God" is to Assume "A Supernatural (unprovable, unfalsifiable), omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent SUPERBEING EXISTS" WHY make such a FANTASTIC assumption? How is that different than Assuming Dragons to discuss the nature of Dragons? IF it is an exercise in Imagination, WHY agian make that effort? What impetus makes you think you need to determine if such a fantastic being exists? It is not that I do not like your definition, it is not a real definition. You have given attributes OF that superbieng, but have said little or nothing about it. Does it have eyes, ears, hair? What does it eat? ALL unknown or unknowables, OR ASSUMED not to be relevent because it was asserted to be all powerful. WHY is it rational to make all these assumptions for something about which NO REAL EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE can be shown? Just for intellectual exercise? I would assert that there is really NO POINT in such an exercise unless the person, at some level of their conciousness, either suspects or assumes such a being exists, as I once did, and that is what drove me to ponder these same things. BUT I never asked myself WHY I asked these questions. I was raised in "God" culture, EVERYONE believed in God, every authority, every adult, just everyone, so as a child I did too. Being the type of child I was I quickly sought to learn all I could about God, which meant learning all that people said and wrote about God, I quickly learned that authoritative sources were not authorities, and that authorities claimed such authority by a divine means they could not show, that their Dogmas, Traditions and definitions OF God conflict. Did not dissuade me from God a bit, but from organized religion. For me, it took ...

Is it just me or does others find it undignified for our VP Mike Pence, who said that he 'ignored ...

Davesnothere comments on Feb 15, 2018:

NO Pence fan here BUT Kim Jon Uns Sister is the head of Propaganda in North Korea, any and every Photo op with her will be used by her ONLY as The Leader sees fit. Do Anything with that particular woman is to feed their propagana machine.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 17, 2018:

@Freedompath but a photo op can be spun that way by a propagandist, you just smile and nod politely, they capture that on film and play it up "Pence graciously pays Homage to . . ." That is How propaganda works. If you give her a grain of sand, she can turn it into a beach

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 17, 2018:

@AxeElf OK You say "IF God exists, I would like you to have a rational way of understanding a universe where an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent God exists--IF, and let me say a thousand times again, IF, IF God does indeed exist." BUT I do not at all say that, before I EVER get to such an assumption I need an impetus. A reason why I should make such a fantastic assumption. First I say "What evidence do you hold which leads you to conclude that there exixts an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent God?" AND "How is it even possible to have evidence of something of such description?" I would posit itis not possible to EVER show evidence of such a being. I would further Posit those terms conflict with the reality we share in empirical reality, making such a definition of unsound logic or an form of special appeal falling to, again, the definition itself, which fails to define what "IT" {?} actually is. Rather it is a lable placed on a concept with al those attributes applied to it. YOU keep FAILING to grasp my central issue. YOU want to ASSUME God, and then rationalize the whys and wherefores. "I understand that you are not trying to prove the existence of God, you are merely assuming that He exists for the purposes of argument." How does one ASSUME what is not defined? Should we call it X like in Algebra and solve for X? IF you then just ascribe abilities to X, of what merit is that but an exercise in your imagination? I am an IGNOSTIC. Ignosticism is an Epistomologic position; it is a set of ideas refuting the importance of determining the existence of God. It claims that knowledge regarding the reality of God is altogether unprofitable. It is the idea that every theological position assumes too much about the concept of God and other theological concepts; including (but not limited to) concepts of faith, spirituality, heaven, hell, afterlife, damnation, salvation, sin and the soul. IF you cannot even define what you are talking about, or consider it beyond human understanding, how is it you can claim to know anything about it and keep your intellectual integrity intact? I see no value in ASSUMING such a fantastic being as described exists in practical reality, and to even assume that it would need to be logically consistent, and that definition is not. Further the definition itself is so open ended I really have no idea what it is That I am too assume exists, other than YOU call it God and list these attributes to it.

Is it just me or does others find it undignified for our VP Mike Pence, who said that he 'ignored ...

Davesnothere comments on Feb 15, 2018:

NO Pence fan here BUT Kim Jon Uns Sister is the head of Propaganda in North Korea, any and every Photo op with her will be used by her ONLY as The Leader sees fit. Do Anything with that particular woman is to feed their propagana machine.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 16, 2018:

@Freedompath Oh we are looked at most unfondly with Trump at the head of State, but we don't make that better by acting cozt with serpents many know and consider exactly that.

Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

Davesnothere comments on Feb 15, 2018:

A-Gnostic =Lacking a certain KNOWLEDGE of any God. A-Theist = Lacking a belief in any Gods It is possible for a person to be either agnostic Atheist or Theist. What I would ask of believers who are agnostic is, since you realidly admit you do not have evidence of your God (by being ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 16, 2018:

@walklightly Correct, I do not need to Believe in my Pickup, I know it to be real.

A friend I knew back in my high school days recently told me not to long ago that he found Jesus.

kiramea comments on Feb 16, 2018:

I have a friend who named her cat Jesus.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 16, 2018:

Odd, when I was in Middle school I named a Kitten Satan, on Christmas. Was not my kitten. I found it in a snowbank on the way to the store to get smokes for my mother in the early 70's, mewling. Someone had thrown it out to freeze on Christmas Morning, a little black Kitten with Yellow eyes. I cam back with my mothers smokes and the Kitten she was Pissed "where did that come from, find a home for it", I promised I would when school started. She asked me to name it and I said "Satan, who else do the Good Christian townsfolk throw out to freeze to death on Christmas?" She never let me get rid of the cat and kept it for years . . .

I'll Pray for you. Building bridges between Theist and Atheist.

David1955 comments on Feb 16, 2018:

Reading this it seems to me that if the intent of such a comment is condescending, patronising or to have a 'dig' at us, then hard atheist applies. If the person means well and that's their way of trying to be nice or supportive, then you let it go or take it in that spirit. It's a case by case ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 16, 2018:

I agree with David, if it was meant in some derogatory fashion, given away by tonal inflection, body language or other social cues, expect a firm reply from me. If it comes from a place of compassion and those other cues indicate that, it is simply a reflection of their own cultural tradition (which is religious) in that compassion and will be treated as compassion.

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 16, 2018:

@AxeElf Let’s redefine our terms in light of our discussion ASSUME 1. God exists—To me it is rather impossible to assume this, as it is UNDEFINED. You are basically asking me to assume an unknown mystery {?} exists. I literally do not know WHAT I am to assume is in existence. I do not have an IDEA entrenched here. YOU DO, you have a concept entrenched here which you place in this placeholder. 2. God {?} is omnipotent.—Defined by you as “Logically consistent, or maximally powerful, so {?} is very powerful. Still tells me nothing about what {?} is. 3. God {?} is omniscient.—meaning you think and believe that {?} is knowledgeable of EVERYTHING. (This adds the qualities of both Timelessness and ever-presence for most folks, and most Christians will use scriptures to support those notions too. The rationale being {?} must be outside Time to see all time to have all knowledge, and yet ever present to have that knowledge. 4. God {?} is omnipresent.—see above 5. God {?} is omnibenevolent.—If you mean that {?} is only able to do Good things, it is not maximally powerful. If you mean that {?} is not able to even think other than good things {?} is not omniscient. In all cases, since we do not have the {?} to examine and determine what its attributes actually are, these assertions and assumptions must originate from elsewhere. So where did they come from and what purpose did they serve? If you are with the Biblical God, you just claimed Global Genocide was GOOD (the literal Flood tale) when such a being is timeless and ever present and KNEW it would not work and another human sacrifice of Jesus would be necessary (making it less than Maximally powerful). Nor are you free to rip the notions above from scripture AS IF THEY ARE FACTS, and then claim other parts of the Bible must be allegory or metaphor. As soon as you do that the entire work becomes subjective to mere human opinion via interpretation, and the truth of salvation itself dependent on human interpretation of a text. How you get from {?} to the Biblical Idea is a pure leap of faith based on your indoctrination and interpretations, I do not see how it can be otherwise. I still have no notion of what {?} is to YOU, other than YOUR IDEA, your "God Model" as I oft call it. While I find examining these interesting, and did myself for many years, I gave that up as a fruitless and pointless exercise some 35 years ago. IF an God exists as YOU define it above, what has ANYONE ever to fear? No Hell could exist inOMNIbenevolence, as it is clearly not benevolent, wailing and gnashing of teeth. IN Luke 16, in the tale of Lazarus Jesus explains how Hell is ETERNAL, , and the gulf between heaven and hell is fixed (16:26) Eternal Torment cannot be benificent to the victim, ...

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 16, 2018:

@AxeElf You are misunderstanding me. When we look at reality I see TWO types of reality Practical reality, which can be measured, tested, weighed and shared. I can say "I have a Keyboard, here examine it yourself" it is empirical. AND Conceptual Reality or Philosophical reality, the land of Imagination, the realm of ideas. Here anything can and does exists and sometimes, we humans, with much blood sweat and tears, drag things from this conceptual reality into practical reality (Look, I made a submarine!) YOU are using deductive Logic to assert your CONCEPTUAL GOD is in fact in Practical Reality, but it does not rise to that level of evidence. In fact it CANNOT because of your own definition. You cannot define something as BIGGER than Practical reality and then PROVE it in any empirical fashion. You are describing the actual reasons why theologians do not use the term Omnipotent but instead use Maximally powerful, because omnipotent DOES mean one sided coins because of all, they resort to maximally powerful as you are describing Omni. ""Is it possible to be both Omnibenevolent and require Torture and Murder for forgivness of Sins?" Well of course it is" --- So being Crucified was a GOOD thing which Jesus enjoiyed, which GOD (1) Did for God (2) (Jesus) as a GOOD thing for HIM? FORGET about the world's souls, what about Jesus the Man? You are outright claiming it was GOOD for him to be flogged with a scourge and crucified. IF an Omniscient and Omnipotent God exists we could conclude we lived in EXACTLY the reality they desired, we CANNOT conclude it is OMNIBENEVOLENT, because it does not treat the people in it in such a fashion. To claim it is OMNIBENEVOLENT you have to make an appeal to IGNORANCE, that this great being understands something we dont, and that is why things are as they are. "Parenthetically, God does not require torture and murder for the forgiveness of sin"--So as a Christian you do not believe in the sanctity of the Shed Blood of the Lamb? A thing which the entire religion is BASED ON? That men are seperated from God, and Jesus's sacrifice unites them again? That makes the sacrifice CENTRAL, it makes it MANDATORY (as the Bible says, Unless you believe and are Born again . . .) NOT Only did he have to be tortured and die for you YOU have to accept another being tortured and killed in your stead. BUT Back to my Central POINT YOU have failed to define GOD in any real way to me. Instead you have put embellishments on a question mark. I say "What is God?" and you give me a list it can do. If I say "What is making that Racket?" And you say, a race car, that is one thing BUT you have said it is FAST and LOUD and HEAVY and INVISIBLE Without ever saying WHAT it is, instead you have labled that what with the tag "God"...

Is it just me or does others find it undignified for our VP Mike Pence, who said that he 'ignored ...

Davesnothere comments on Feb 15, 2018:

NO Pence fan here BUT Kim Jon Uns Sister is the head of Propaganda in North Korea, any and every Photo op with her will be used by her ONLY as The Leader sees fit. Do Anything with that particular woman is to feed their propagana machine.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 16, 2018:

@Freedompath Let me elaborate. Goebells was Hitlers minister of Media, that is what this woman is for her brother, the Leader (who does not poop you know, much of the Nation of North Korea believes he never needs to poop, so entrenched is their propaganda. South Korea does not believe a thing she is saying and are frankly surprised the western world sees it as anything real, because of who she is. Were Pence to do some Photo Op with her, they will use that to spin who knows what to their own people? How can we be responsible for the gas they throw on a fire, just because it looks polite to do a pic or impolite not to?

Is the downfall of humanity men or the authority of men?

LeighShelton comments on Feb 10, 2018:

it's too many humans

Davesnothere replies on Feb 15, 2018:

Always reminds me of those old rats experiments on population back in the 50's and 60's Increase population and food, but not space Eventually it all starts to come apart

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 15, 2018:

@AxeElf Deductive logic is not PROOF, it is reasoning. and in my view faulty from its outset as you begin with the assumption of #1 "God Exists" Then claim Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omniprescence and Omnibenevolence as part and parcel of that definition. ALL aspects of the thing you are labeling "God" You have not told me what that is at all, you have instead made claims about the nature of that Question Mark you have labled God. Those axioms also raise all sorts of problems. things like "Can God think of a rock so big it cannot lift it?" If yes, it lacks Omniscience, If No it lacks Omnipotence (this is why Theologians switched to "Maximally Poweful" over Omnipotent) Is it possible to be both Omnibenevolent and require Torture and Murder for forgivness of Sins? Not very Benevolent for Jesus was it? So the Christian Motif really cracks and falls apart under these terms. Also, the things I had siad are not "irrational things I have heard", I grew up a believer, devout and on fire. I first slogged through the Bible at 9, and have read it five more times since then. I have studied that text, and most others, at temples and churhces, in studiies, and even in a couple of Monasteries BEFORE there was an internet. An examination of the base text leads readers there. The explanations YOU have adopted were designed by MEN to explain away all the things I have mentioned and more, as they came up. Those explanations are ALL extra Biblical human ideas to explain outright contradictions which refute your defintion. An argument is not Proof. It is not evidence either, it is a rational argument. See if you can follow along. YOU say "Hey Dave, I got a new car." "What did you get?" "A Lamborghini." "WHAT!? BS, your full of shit! Where is it?" NOW, if it is parked outside or at your home and you roar up in the beast, then I eat Crow. "Damn. I did not believe you. I appologize. Can I have a ride?" You have now "proven" your Lamborghini (A fantastic claim for most folks) It is not possible for you to do the same with your God idea, because it is a supernatural idea and we live in a natural world. So, the impetus will always be on you to prove an impossibility. THAT is why it is your Faith, and not a fact. WERE it a fact, then everyone would believe not only in God, but in your God, in the same way they accept the existence of the Lamborghini.

Starman 'driving' a Red Tesla Roadster Poll

Davesnothere comments on Feb 9, 2018:

His Rockets were bigger than Apollo, and the booster came back down and landed, all three, two on nearby pads and one on a ship at sea, so they can be reused. The chat thread on his live feed is outrageous though, so full of grade school flunk outs and flat earthers,quick to believe conspiracy and ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 12, 2018:

@GeorgeRocheleau That is a tribute to DOOM, the BFG, Big fucking Gun, Elons loves his little tributes . . .the cars dash reads "Don't Panic" So BFR would be Big Fucking Rocket

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 12, 2018:

@AxeElf That is some serious special pleading for God's rationale as to why he made man selffish, with a whole series of assumptions (eternal life and so forth) which, like hell do not exist for Jews. All Christian add ons after they plagerized the Jews. And Hell offsets all that. Your premise is the Deist Model, God as Grand Architect and reality as a "School" or testing ground in which we are supposed to learn. Everything you need to learn is here and some of the lessons suck, and the teacher does not help. A Lot of Deist ideas blended into Christianity after the Great Awakening. I too think the sprawling texts are heavy for both of us, so I suggest a simplification. From my end, it is not really possible to have a good conversation with someone like you without a definition of God, so I know what you mean by the term. Can you give me that, your definition of God?

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 12, 2018:

@AxeElf Please try and understand this. Because YOU believe a thing does not make it defacto True, for that we need real evidence. YOU subscribe to a series of interpretations of a text, a list of things you believe which makes that notion seem sensible. So to say to me "You have done an excellent job of detailing the things you don't understand yet" is to say your claim IS PROVEN, because you understand it in a certain way, and I am simply ignorant in not understanding it in the correct fashion. BUT without actual real evidence there is now way for you to prove YOUR way is any more Valid than another persons way, any of the thousand sof Christians who would disagree. ALL you can REALLY do is tell me where YOUR DOGMA (a sum total of your Christian Beliefs) differs from the Dogma I (Used the standards from various denominations which might not agree with yours or my own understanding from the text) You can tell me where and HOW your Dogma is different, but you cannot show it true, valid or based on reality. I dont have "misconceptions" about orignnal sin or the Creation TALES (Plural), I have different ones than YOU. How can you prove yours is correct? Where is your evidence, an interpretaion of a text vs another interpretation of a text, or Adams Bones? Your explanation of Genesis is Theology, which is the EXTRA biblical explanation MEN came up with when confronted with this very issue. WITH no evidence, (and lots of contrary evidence in Sumeria, in the use of Plural Gods in the OT, i the text itself.) Further they fall apart on their face for any "literal" interpretation (such as a linear one), because LIGHT came before the SUn (which gives us light) Of course these were people who believed the sky a solid, and the stars "pinpricks in the curtain of night", They use terms like "falling stars", when stars cannot fall they are SUNS and we would fall into them. IF you want to say that you can only take SOME things in a literal fashion, like a LITERAL Jesus and a LITERAL Execution and a LITERAL Sacrifice and a LITERAL rising from the dead BUT then want to say "These other things must be taken only in a NON Literal, allegorical or Metaphorical sense" THEN whatever you believe about that text IS SUBJECTIVE to how you interpret it and decide which is which (that is why you have so many denominations, and why it would be a poor way for any God to communicate because it would know it would fail, AS it would have to now the Flood would fail due to timelessness and ever prescence)

Why is the Bible so poorly written?

Davesnothere comments on Feb 11, 2018:

It is about how it was constructed, which is a LONG story. here I will link to to some short films explaining that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70SYwkoH_yc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q37NhrCPNo

Davesnothere replies on Feb 12, 2018:

@zblaze Your very welcome

Your love language?

Davesnothere comments on Feb 11, 2018:

I speak all of those, but it omits perhaps the most noble of any such hypothesied linguistics of Love Self Sacrifice for the sake of the loved one

Davesnothere replies on Feb 12, 2018:

@BarbaraParks I dont see those as equal, an act of kindness might be a ride in a car, self sacrfice might be your own life

Can a moderate have a place in this agnostic site?

jayneonacobb comments on Feb 10, 2018:

I'm politically conservative, but socially liberal. I have found that some people here accept that, and others outright dismiss me because of my conservative views.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 11, 2018:

@jayneonacobb Frankly I am not so sure what folks mean by those terms anymore. I used to, but not anymore. Many Conservatives will speak the word Liberal with Venom, or twist it into something else like "libtard", when a Liberal is really a person who supports, endorses and defends the principal of Liberty; The ability to live ones life as one sees fit to live it. Which strikes me as a conservative value. Many Liberals will do the very same thing to conservatives, conflate Cons with Convicts with criminal with a lack of human compassion. When the term originally meant people who wanted to preserve American Social Values and demanded fiscal responsibility (not anymore in this GOP) NOW it seems to me that news outlets and BOTH parties work day and night to keep Red hating Blue and Blue hating Red by turning up the heated rhetoric on certain hot topics, while ignoring their own core values. This only works to keep Americans fighting Americans, and is the core of a Divide and Conquer tactic. It is much easier for a wealthy Oligarchy to keep the masses in check if they blame each other rather than realize it is a tiny minority who is lording it over them all. E Plurubus Unum terrifies modern politicians.

Can a moderate have a place in this agnostic site?

Davesnothere comments on Feb 10, 2018:

The only commonality I have found among non theists is the lack of theism. Beyond that they reflect the larger society and run the spectrum. Are you conflating Politics and Theism?

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@Leutrelle Need sunglasses?

Just had a moment of clarity here.

Hicks66 comments on Feb 10, 2018:

You seem to be stressing a predator/prey dichotomy. Do your ethics provide for a third role; of protector, perhaps. Just because you didn't mention it doesn't mean it hasn't crossed your mind. If so, I wonder why it didn't make it to the page. I can almost see the Shepherd as an aspect of predator ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

Actually no, what I am seeing is two entirely different approaches to problem solving at the root. One, like myself, is data oriented. Improvise, adapt and overcome. The other, and it seems to me by that simple tv research (which means I would really like to see a larger properly funded study on it) is a form of SOCIAL thinking to problem solving. So that when I am confromnted by some sort of ethcal dilema, I use critical thinking and Empathy to solve the issue BUT when most people confron such issues they do not, instead they ask themselves "What would Mom, Dad, Coach, or Jesus do in this situation?" and indtead pf actually reasoning out the problem they extrapolate based on their personal understanding of another person and how they have handled things, or how they think or believe they would handle things. A form of social cognition. This allows them to come to positions they FEEL are proper without ever contemplating the puzzle in detail.

Just had a moment of clarity here.

birdingnut comments on Feb 10, 2018:

They did that same experiment in an Asbury College freshman class, except that I'd grown up in Haiti, where we sometimes dove under furniture when we heard machine gun fire in the valley below to escape stray bullets. So, as soon as some guy rushed into the room and knocked down the teacher, then...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

I too find it odd how few react with any speed in cruisis, unless they have been through a few. They see it as surreal, and it has that appearance, but when you have been through some understand it is all too real and that is why it seems surreal.

Why all or nothing

NothinnXpreVails comments on Feb 6, 2018:

What do you mean by spiritual?

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@DaveAaron so you mean experience of all sorts? Yet combine that with Ethics or Usefulness? Why use such loaded language for that? adjective 1. relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things. 2. relating to religion or religious belief. And isnt Spiritua closer to Holy breath? Luke 12:10 he " that blasphemeth against the holy pneuma

Can a moderate have a place in this agnostic site?

mordant comments on Feb 10, 2018:

Sure you have a place here. I've met conservative and libertarian atheists. I've met atheists who didn't come to atheism via skepticism, who believe in various unsubstantiated things, etc. All atheism is, is a label for people who see no valid reason to believe in even one god. Other than that ... ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@Leutrelle In all cases your always welcome at my lodge

Starman 'driving' a Red Tesla Roadster Poll

Davesnothere comments on Feb 9, 2018:

His Rockets were bigger than Apollo, and the booster came back down and landed, all three, two on nearby pads and one on a ship at sea, so they can be reused. The chat thread on his live feed is outrageous though, so full of grade school flunk outs and flat earthers,quick to believe conspiracy and ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@marmot84 For those too young to get the joke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtDAK7Umk7A

Starman 'driving' a Red Tesla Roadster Poll

Davesnothere comments on Feb 9, 2018:

His Rockets were bigger than Apollo, and the booster came back down and landed, all three, two on nearby pads and one on a ship at sea, so they can be reused. The chat thread on his live feed is outrageous though, so full of grade school flunk outs and flat earthers,quick to believe conspiracy and ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@marmot84 Dave's not here man

Levels I am frankly not impressed with the levels system I find here, I think SFW.

fit-in-Spring-TX comments on Feb 9, 2018:

Levels are actually a method to filter our fake accounts or bots. Bots are too lazy to do the work necessary to get beyond level 1. There are a few bots on A.com, but not an infestation that comprises a denial-of-service, like on Match.com.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

Well that makes sense, thanks for that.

Levels I am frankly not impressed with the levels system I find here, I think SFW.

AxeElf comments on Feb 8, 2018:

You're awfully outspoken about something you don't care about.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@AxeElf I have difficulty seeing conversation as buisness, but I suppose your correct.

Starman 'driving' a Red Tesla Roadster Poll

Davesnothere comments on Feb 9, 2018:

His Rockets were bigger than Apollo, and the booster came back down and landed, all three, two on nearby pads and one on a ship at sea, so they can be reused. The chat thread on his live feed is outrageous though, so full of grade school flunk outs and flat earthers,quick to believe conspiracy and ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@marmot84 your correct, it only appears so because of the new design.

Starman 'driving' a Red Tesla Roadster Poll

Davesnothere comments on Feb 9, 2018:

His Rockets were bigger than Apollo, and the booster came back down and landed, all three, two on nearby pads and one on a ship at sea, so they can be reused. The chat thread on his live feed is outrageous though, so full of grade school flunk outs and flat earthers,quick to believe conspiracy and ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 10, 2018:

@icolan It did? Early reports said it hit the target as planned. Damn

Levels I am frankly not impressed with the levels system I find here, I think SFW.

AxeElf comments on Feb 8, 2018:

You're awfully outspoken about something you don't care about.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 9, 2018:

Only because I see from others responses that it seems of import to them. So It becomes of import to me to tell folks I am really not concerned with that, and slightly suspicious about the motives of it. WHY do we need levels at all? WHAT is the puurpose of that? IS IT, like FB, seeking a Dopamine response to create an electronic addiction for profit? I enjoiy the discourse here, see a lot less ads, and a lot less meme wars, screaming and so forth. That is reason enough for me. How am I deserving of some "perk" because I type more than someone else who is more busy?

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 9, 2018:

@AxeElf How did Judas Iscariot Die? In Matthew he is despondent, repentant, throws the money at the priests and goes and hangs himself. In Acts he is unrepentant, keeps the money, uses it to buy a field and god punishes his wickedness by having him fall down and explode. Christian Apologetics says both happened BUT you can't be both unrepentant and repentant, keep the money and buy a field, and throw it away So ONE is wrong.

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 9, 2018:

@AxeElf "Okay, let me get started here. First of all, I don't believe that I am being or would be punished for an ancestor's crime." So you do not believe in original sin? Without that, the rationale for the "sacrifice" of Jesus vanishes. You then leap to a series of assumptions 1. Human nature is selfishness 2. Human nature seperates you from God (which would be the error iof that "perfect God who made the system that way without original sin) 3 You need to fix that seperation inorder to have an eternity with God--what evidence do you have that there is any such thing, either the God or an eternity to spend with it? If you are going to jump into Genesis, understand that there are TWO creation stories in Genesis. The first (gen 1) is almost word for word, the Summerian tale, the second (Gen 2 the Garden Tale) seems to be a creation of the Semantic tribes. This is problematic on many levels. Further, the context of the tale itself clearly shows this to be a direct punishment, not a cause and effect situation, God itself says it will cause these things, as a punishment. It is one of the more liberal Christians Dogmas that it is simply a result of our own actions, like getting burnt from sticking your hand into a fire unwittingly. The Problem is this fails on EITHER account when you keep in mind that working Model (definition of God purposed by the religion) IF the text were accurate, it is a punishment by a being who knew what would happen beforehand YET still placed the tree, STILL allowed the serpent to be there, and the punishes people who we deceived BEFORE they had any inkling what deceit was. This makes it a Cosmic setup to force some reaction from humanity on pain of eternal death, followed by eternal torment (hell, a christian invention, does not exist in Judaism). IF the text is allegorical or metaphorical, it STILL FAILS. This is because that very same definition of God still holds fast, All or Maximally powerful, eternal, timeless and EVER present (watching everything, everywhere, all the time like reality TV) IF it was an "inevitable consequence of the human action" (eating from the tree) OR human nature itself, then the very same being WANTED it that way. OTHERWISE that definition fails. "13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 16 Unto the woman he said, I will ...

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 9, 2018:

@AxeElf Have you considered that by your standard, any soldier who jumps on a grenade to save his buddies is a vile and horrible monster, unethically taking punishment to save others from their due fate? Not at all the same proposition, unless the soldier 1. designed the grenade, and pulled the pin 2. with perfect foreknowledge of what it would do 3. then claims it is inevitable (which cannot be true with perfect foreknowledge and everprescence) 4. Then falls on the grenade, allegedly sacrificing self to save me, from a threat it created, and from which it wont really die instead it will only be on "pause" for three days.

I think what surprises me most is the look of confusion on people's face when you say that you don't...

Rudy1962 comments on Feb 9, 2018:

It's sometimes like that here in the sticks in northern Wisconsin. I can relate to that confused look on people's faces when you say you don't believe in God. I had one lady and she seemed happy, or excited or something, and she said, "I've never met an atheist before!". Kind of like she had just ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 9, 2018:

More often, in the Sticks here in Maine, or in Cali, or in cities when traveling, I get that response from other Atheists because I am public, outspoken and quite often in shows i my choice in clothing, especially when travelling (love to burst those bubbles)

I think what surprises me most is the look of confusion on people's face when you say that you don't...

ChrisR comments on Feb 9, 2018:

In the south of England you'd probably get the same reaction if you told them that you *did* believe in God ;)

Davesnothere replies on Feb 9, 2018:

I found that in Europe for the most part when I was there, except for certain Catholic strongholds

Fox News Is Driving Us Toward A Constitutional Crisis | HuffPost

MadHadderoll comments on Feb 3, 2018:

All of this stuff works in pendulum. The conservatives are in charge for now, there is a lot of push back from the atm, let them shine for now until the poles come through. Soon enough the revolution will come.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 8, 2018:

@MadHadderoll it is an interesting way to look ath things though, an interesting conversation. Rather pessimistic rather than realist. If you embrace such an idea, what prevents you from such deep depression you just give up any hop[e for any future other than nuclear winter?

Fox News Is Driving Us Toward A Constitutional Crisis | HuffPost

MadHadderoll comments on Feb 3, 2018:

All of this stuff works in pendulum. The conservatives are in charge for now, there is a lot of push back from the atm, let them shine for now until the poles come through. Soon enough the revolution will come.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 8, 2018:

@MadHadderoll While that might be true of your or mine as far as a chemical reaction is concerned, it does not follow that it would be so for the social process, wherein you have multiple people with multiple "programed" reactions, which then interact. If your premise was correct, then everything would be predictable by an algorythm would it not? Seems a vast oversimplification based on the neuroscience of our brains. Why would you assume I make such assumptions about humanity? They also have nothig to do with the issue at hand. You wont find much argumment fromme that the barbaric is thinly clad in humanity, take away electric from the populace and watch what happens. But I fail to see how your extrapolating those ideas as some agurentee that any social construct is designed, by nature, to fail. That would go against the survival instinct.

Can coincidence be explained scientifically?

Sheitelhau comments on Feb 8, 2018:

There is no reason to believe either fate or coincidence exist. Both imply there is some meaning to apply to events that occur, but no such meaning is evident or necessary for the event to occur.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 8, 2018:

coincidence does not imply any meaning. noun 1. a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection. Happenstance, like dropping a glass and it NOT breaking, it does happen . . .Random factors combine to allow it not to break. Does not imply any outside agency.

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 8, 2018:

@AxeElf IF I rob a Bank and kill three people, and you love me so much you volunteer to go to prison and serve my sentence for me, is it ethical and moral for me to allow you to do that, face violence, prison rape and who knows what else in my stead when you are innocent and I am not? Under Christian Dogma, to avoid this, ALL humans are declared Borken and Guilty via original sin. YOU, I and everyone are guilty for an ancestors crime. Is it Ethical, Moral or Just for you to be punished for your Grandfathers crime? Under Christian Dogma it becomes a long series of special pleadings, first original sin (which disproves the all knowing God or convicts that God Model of a Cosmic set up), then neccessary salvation (which shows that an alleged all powerful God cannot be all powerful because it is unable to forgive without Blood Sacrifice) Even the Sacrements are Blood Magic, cermonial Cannibalism and Vampirism, claimed not only as Good, but Divine, and if your a devout Catholic subscribing to the doctrine of Transubstationation, they are not symbolic, as the wafer and wine transform to blood and flesh inside you via Dogma. How is Vicarious Human sacrifice in any way Ethical or Moral? The concept of Hell turns God into an extortionist. For God, being all knowing, timeless and ever present, created man with full knowledge he would fall (or your definition fails and God is not all knowing, ever present and timeless). Hell is thus like a shotgun held to everyone's head. God then says "IF you love me and Obey me, you wont get shot. It is your choice" BUT The Same God, created Hell for this fallen man as a predetermined fate( a Disneyland of Eternal Torture), like a shotgun held to everyone's head rigged to go off UNLESS you love God and OBEY God. That makes your idea of salvation actually extortion, and thus makes your God Model evil.

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 7, 2018:

@AxeElf The Ethics of Christians would vary from Christian to Christian, and the Ethics of Christianity varies slightly from sect to sect. It is not even possible to address the former without some context, like Joel Orsteens Homes or something as a focus. My issue is with the ethics of the religion itself. I find it unethical, immoral and because of the way it is spun, in an emotional appeal, presented as both highly moral and ethical, when It cannot be in my view. That is presenting the profane as the divine. No believer I know of can maintain their beleif AND accept that Ethical idea, they either see the ethical issue and lose that faith, or make endless excuse for that Ethical issue based on flawed theologies, Dogma, and Faith (in spite of the Ethical issue), sometimes due to tradition, indoctrination, fear of reprisal (hell), fear of social ramifications (loss of family, friends, spouse).

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

Atheistman comments on Feb 7, 2018:

This site isn't that great but it isn't totally horrible either. This site is most left wing nuts, and that includes the admins

Davesnothere replies on Feb 7, 2018:

@Disco_sugarfist Its not the Gov so much as the wealthy Donor class, the Oligarchs, who make money from edless politcal TV, who make more money from Magazines and Web based content of the same ilk, and for whom it is beneficial to keep left fighting right and right fighting left, keep red HATING Blue and BLUE hating Red, because then they have achieved Divinde and Conquer. The Opposite of E Plurubus Unum, a concept so frightening they removed it from the money, and changed the Motto to a religious one.

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

Atheistman comments on Feb 7, 2018:

This site isn't that great but it isn't totally horrible either. This site is most left wing nuts, and that includes the admins

Davesnothere replies on Feb 7, 2018:

Why must one ploitical side always label the other political side with disparaging labels? "Left wing nuts", or "Right wing Facists" and so forth? Tribalism gone amok to me . . .

This is my first time on this site and I already haven't seen any christians.

AxeElf comments on Feb 7, 2018:

Maybe you already hadn't seen any Christians, but now you definitely have. ::: waves :::

Davesnothere replies on Feb 7, 2018:

@Disco_sugarfist I dont condem Christians for thier beliefs, they simply make no sense to me, and seem both immoral and unethical. I do understand how inside that motif they can seem plausible, but that all falls apart with the slightest ethical inspection. So it makes no sense to me

A lot of angry and/or uneducated atheists around here...

Aenith comments on Jan 29, 2018:

I am not angry about a religion or a person's beliefs. I have just as much fun with a devout Catholic as I do a devout Muslim. I am, however, angry at: People that use their religious power to take advantage of others People that use their religious influence to protect the above People that ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 7, 2018:

@Aenith Layers of "prosecution"? And yes they do matter. If your convicted of murder 1 you get life without parole or death, if it is negligent homicide, you get 5 years. That is a hell of a diference, both for "taking a life", because we consider scircumstances. To not consider circumstances is to PREJUDGE based on your own ideology. How is this now Terrorism? That is extremism,, not just religious belief. extremism is both religious and political ideology combined. It is also not at all what I am talking about. In your first response you said you are angry, and it shows. Angry at people who do things based on thier religious ideology. You are angry at their actions, which are associated with or based upon their religious ideology. They are not seperate things, that you can then blame the person and leave the religious ideology out of the picture entirely. They COULD NOT have developed those ideologies without the religion, the ideas, and the acts whioch spring from them are dependent upon the religion. "Personal experience counts for nothing once that person chooses to harm another."-- the fact that you see this as some simple choice, like picking a flavor of ice cream, tells me you do not understand the central issues. IF a person becomes convinced of an ideology, then they adopt it, and its tennets. That is why ideologies are dangerous. This enable GOOD people to do horrid things, all the while thinking and believing they are doing Good things against an EVIL society.

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”

Davesnothere comments on Feb 5, 2018:

that is only true if the neutral person is fully aware of all the factors involved. Hypothetical You see one man murdering another (injustice) IF you take prompt action and prevent the murder (without fully being informed) AND you have an innocent victim, your a hero IF you take prompt ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 6, 2018:

@Dick_Martin The Op said nothing about Trump

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”

ThereisnoDog comments on Feb 5, 2018:

what are you if you take incorrect action based on perceived injustice?

Davesnothere replies on Feb 5, 2018:

Bingo

Atheist.

Atheistman comments on Feb 5, 2018:

I don't think so, I believe atheism is accurate thinking. These other idiots saying they don't believe anything is absurd. Really, just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean you don't believe anything at all. I believe in the real world aka reality. I think many Christians are still ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 5, 2018:

Not all people define success in the same manner. It sounds to me like you define sucess with dollar signs. I do not, money is to me simply a means to an end. Experiences and relationships are of far more value to me the $$ucce$$

Am I the only person who cares nothing for football?

DJ_Blaser comments on Feb 5, 2018:

Add me to the list of people indifferent to sports. I also feel sports that involve killing things (hunting, fishing) are barbaric. Hunting and fishing as a necessity for food is not necessarily bad if there is the need. As a species we need to evolve beyond the need to killing for food.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 5, 2018:

Hunting and Fishing are a niche skill set. You might seethem as barabric, but the reality is that you cannot have that skill set unless you exercise it. So, if you DO need to hunt or fish for life sustaining sustenence, and have no experience doing so, your gonna starve. I grew up in hunting culture, but I neither hunt or fish.

A lot of angry and/or uneducated atheists around here...

Aenith comments on Jan 29, 2018:

I am not angry about a religion or a person's beliefs. I have just as much fun with a devout Catholic as I do a devout Muslim. I am, however, angry at: People that use their religious power to take advantage of others People that use their religious influence to protect the above People that ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 5, 2018:

@Aenith That is a poor correlation. IF you are raised in a tribe which teaches you that only your tribe has value and all other tribes are evil in your worldview, and it is not the childs fault they have it. They were raised in it by no choice of their own. The Child grows into an adult and MIGHT grow out of those ideas, but it is unlikely, it takes a skeptical mind to break free. The Law certainly DOES discriminate, by circumstance, by level of involvement, by action and deed. Murder is not murder in every circumstance even though the person is always equally murdered. The Law might decide it was 1st degree, 2nd degree, Manslughter, or Negligent and so forth. You seem to have lost all sense of Nuance on this and want to lump all believers into some boat with Nazis.

A lot of angry and/or uneducated atheists around here...

Aenith comments on Jan 29, 2018:

I am not angry about a religion or a person's beliefs. I have just as much fun with a devout Catholic as I do a devout Muslim. I am, however, angry at: People that use their religious power to take advantage of others People that use their religious influence to protect the above People that ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 4, 2018:

@Aenith "Reason is the Enemy of Faith"--Martin Luther

A lot of angry and/or uneducated atheists around here...

Aenith comments on Jan 29, 2018:

I am not angry about a religion or a person's beliefs. I have just as much fun with a devout Catholic as I do a devout Muslim. I am, however, angry at: People that use their religious power to take advantage of others People that use their religious influence to protect the above People that ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 4, 2018:

@Aenith The ones who go against what they are taught have already breached that indoctrination, the ones who have not breached it actually think they are doing good, which is a huge part of the problem. Religion has the capability of convincing good people to do horriffic things thinking and believing they are actually doing good, and that is fucking dangerous. When you look at something like the Inquisition, it is easy for us to think 'these people were crazy, or evil", but the reality is far more insidious and worse, in that you have people utterly convinced that IFthey do not torture you in a horriffic fashion to get you to confess, so they can burn you alive for your "sin" THEN your soul will burn for an eternity So, in thier OWN MIND, they are doing not only Good, but the highest Good, saving your soul. It is not because they "know" and do not care, but because they are in a state of Cognitive Denial. The religion teaches them to BELIEVE and Not think too much. It is those who do think that break free, those who remain in faith do not think outside the paradigm, and so think they are doing good when they are being bigoted. It is not that the individual does not bear any responsibility, it is that their worldview actuall prevents them from seeing the harm, because they either see it as a good or as a neccessary evil, like pulling a rotten tooth, and the religious systems have a great many rationalizations, ready made, worked out by Theologians over two thousand years, to simply hand the believer to shore up their belief and allow them not to think about it too deeply. This is the mechanism which allows Catholics to remain faithful to the Church despite all the evidence of the Churches history, itt is an elaborate rationalization, which to those outsidethat bubble is as trasparant as cellophane, but to the believer feels as solid as concrete.

Fox News Is Driving Us Toward A Constitutional Crisis | HuffPost

MadHadderoll comments on Feb 3, 2018:

All of this stuff works in pendulum. The conservatives are in charge for now, there is a lot of push back from the atm, let them shine for now until the poles come through. Soon enough the revolution will come.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 4, 2018:

@MadHadderoll while that is true, democratic society is not a by product of "natural law", but of social mechanism. You seem to be putting forward a notion of social sociopathy. Global Thermocuclear War as a simple by product of nature, and not the foolhardieness of human invention and lackof control. Seems like a cop out to me.

“There is new life in the soil for every man.

Davesnothere comments on Feb 2, 2018:

Gotta love them trees right?

Davesnothere replies on Feb 4, 2018:

@Stevil Oh yea, she has been there for years and knows them very well indeed, Plus Mary is my favrite kind of woman, intelligent and strong. She would smile, and if actually angry, figure some nefarious way to make things even. She refgails me with the tales of tourist stupidity all the time, like leaving you car windows cracked with food inside while you go off for the day, then wondering why you dont have a car when you get back, cause the bears tore it apart looking for treats.

A lot of angry and/or uneducated atheists around here...

Dida comments on Jan 29, 2018:

Thank-you! Those books sound like a treasure trove of knowledge. I too have studied the history of religion, even saw some pieces of the Dead Sea Scrolls! My name, Melita, is ancient and can be found in the bible. It is my opinion that being angry has a negative effect on me and does nothing to ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@Dida Your quite welcome

Was at the National Holocaust Memorial in DC today.

Davesnothere comments on Feb 2, 2018:

I have stood in Dachau, in Nuremberg all the street signs show images of the streets after the fire bombings with the term "nie wieder", never again, so at each street you can see what it looks like today, and what it was then NEVER FORGET is the point. TOO MUCH of America now resembles Germany...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@DUCHESSA You have no arguement from me there on education. I am far too outspoke to overhear such an thing and NOT make a scene (not so good at parties unless you want sparks). You sound like you were a fine teacher.

Fox News Is Driving Us Toward A Constitutional Crisis | HuffPost

MadHadderoll comments on Feb 3, 2018:

All of this stuff works in pendulum. The conservatives are in charge for now, there is a lot of push back from the atm, let them shine for now until the poles come through. Soon enough the revolution will come.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@MadHadderoll I dont see what Nature has to do with the structure of our democratic process

“There is new life in the soil for every man.

Davesnothere comments on Feb 2, 2018:

Gotta love them trees right?

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@Stevil NAH, she'll just leave an open pack of doghnuts by your tent with some bacon drippings while your out hiking :)

@BeeHappy posted a ten-minute video on the topic "The Bible Is Mostly Not Factual" in which a ...

Davesnothere comments on Feb 1, 2018:

It is not the interpretation of idiots which concern me, it is the actions those voting idiots take based upon those very interpretations, actions which find their way into law and policy. Tell me, if you truly believe the world is ending and Jesus coming to save you and burn me, of what concern ...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@AxeElf You know, I have been here for two days now, and I must say that compared to something like FB, the conversations here are both more erudite and civil, even when folks are not fully in sync, or miscommuncating, or even in open disagreement. I find that quite refreshing.

Fox News Is Driving Us Toward A Constitutional Crisis | HuffPost

MadHadderoll comments on Feb 3, 2018:

All of this stuff works in pendulum. The conservatives are in charge for now, there is a lot of push back from the atm, let them shine for now until the poles come through. Soon enough the revolution will come.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

That has been the pattern for all of American History, the problem I fear is that if the pendulum swings too far to one side, will the chain then break?

Fox News Is Driving Us Toward A Constitutional Crisis | HuffPost

KKGator comments on Feb 2, 2018:

I have met the enemy, and it is us.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@Duke lol

Fox News Is Driving Us Toward A Constitutional Crisis | HuffPost

Redcupcoffee comments on Feb 3, 2018:

Fuck yes he is. It's kind of nice to see how this is all playing out, I never lived thru the Nixon era so it's nice to see how it all works. I'm proud to be alive at this time and prouder to be a part of the Resistance.

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@astardrifter Nor did Tricky Dick attack the institutions we depend on left and right or utterly disregaurd the rule of law. I too recall that time and see this as exponetially worse at this stage. We either STAND UP in 2018 and throw out the baby and the bathwater (The whole damn GOP Congress which is now also complicit in obstruction of justice) or we lose what is left of the Democratic republic we once had. That has already morphed into a Democratic oligarchy in my life, enshired as such by Citizens United, but this is headin to a Bananna republic in rapid time.

Was at the National Holocaust Memorial in DC today.

Davesnothere comments on Feb 2, 2018:

I have stood in Dachau, in Nuremberg all the street signs show images of the streets after the fire bombings with the term "nie wieder", never again, so at each street you can see what it looks like today, and what it was then NEVER FORGET is the point. TOO MUCH of America now resembles Germany...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@DUCHESSA I would fault that on the poor education process, something I have been fighting about all my days since Iwas a child. I was that Kid in grade school who confronted a first wave creationist with my collection of paleontology books from the smithsonian, and got flunked for the year for the effort, in middle school got suspended thee times for reading on my own time, because they did not approve of my reading choices, two of which I bought through the scholastic book club, and in high school had another teacher of American History , who again flunked me for a year, because I kept on bringing up the Native histories he kept omitting, like the trail of tears. As a Parent, I had similar issues but my children did not suffer for it, teachers had to suffer me. During Black History month they always make displays of famous Black folks picked by the Kids and the Teacher, always see Dr King, then it would be a bunch of sports figures actors and musicians, so I would ask in front of the class and teacher "Hey, wheres' Malcolm? Where's Medgar? How can you have a civil rights board and omit them?" I did not care if it was my childs class or not cause it would get the kids talking, and ASKING "Who's Malcolm? Who's Medgar?" and in these time googling it. So I would gather that like all these issues, this too is something folks like you and I will always have to rtaise to remind others of it and educate those around us, because we sure dont need a repeat.

Faith, as a term, is often misused by people of faith.

Atheistman comments on Feb 2, 2018:

Thoughts are physical entities. Thoughts affect and shape matter. The words you typed into the screen is evidence of the materialization of thought. Faith that I will achieve the goal I set for myself. I haven't yet achieved the goal, yet I have faith that one day I will. This faith is evidence...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@Atheistman brain waves can be neasured, not thoughts. Show me some data that shows "thoughts" being "physical" adjective 1. relating to the body as opposed to the mind. OR 2. relating to things perceived through the senses as opposed to the mind; tangible or concrete. "Entities" 1. a thing with distinct and independent existence. OR 2. existence; being. Do you see how you are miscommunicating your point here? To claim a thought is a Physical entity is to claim a thought is SOLID and SEPERATE from you, rather than a process of your own mind. IS that your claim, that your thoughts are seperate living things, with a tangible presence we can measure outside of ourselves? Cause that sounds rather scitzophrenic

THESE BOOTS WERE MADE FOR WALKING

Rudy1962 comments on Jan 29, 2018:

The most per mile walking I did was 70 miles in 2 days. It was on the Ice Age trail in southern, WI. I hiked from the trail head to a hotel in Whitewater. I then spent the night in a hotel that had a hot tub. The next day I walked the 35 miles back to my car. The hotel clerk was confused by the...

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@Rudy1962 Nor will I, I lived my life fully excepting to be dead by thirty, now pushing 60 my body tells me of my youthful folly daily and sadly REAL hiking is a thing of my past due to health, now I can take strolls. It was more solitary and a fine hike, but the south in the late summer was rough hiking. Georgia's Red clay was mud from my own sweat

“There is new life in the soil for every man.

Davesnothere comments on Feb 2, 2018:

Gotta love them trees right?

Davesnothere replies on Feb 3, 2018:

@Stevil I have a female ranger friend who works at Yosemite

A lot of angry and/or uneducated atheists around here...

Duke comments on Jan 29, 2018:

I'm actually incensed at the amount of time and energy we (as a group) expend on this website pointing out what we don't believe. You're not a Christian. Good for you. I don't care. Why is an entire website being used primarily as a bashing place for religion? Who really gives a shit? I don't.