Agnostic.com
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Six months on the site.
Rugglesby comments on May 18, 2018:
I had to have a look, 6 months for me. I agree with your post, thank you for it, but better, for how well it reads. What I get from the site keeps changing, I was over regular on-line dating sites, too many fake people. On here I realised the chances of finding someone local was unlikely so ...
David1955 replies on May 18, 2018:
Great reply. Thanks. I think it will a while longer for me too. To say the least. Unless of course the religious fanatics take over the site. Doubt that will ever happen. They don't know with whom they are messing. Over my cold, dead typing fingers! :-)
Six months on the site.
DavidLaDeau comments on May 18, 2018:
Well I have met you. Going well I'D say.
David1955 replies on May 18, 2018:
If only we were closer for that coffee. :-)
Six months on the site.
VAL3941 comments on May 18, 2018:
Agnostic, Atheism or dating site all I know it is for me !
David1955 replies on May 18, 2018:
Fair Enough
How many of you actually care about the royal wedding? I won’t tease you.
GoldenDoll comments on May 18, 2018:
Not at all.
David1955 replies on May 18, 2018:
I"m with you. Not at all.
Even Kirk.....
Novelty comments on May 16, 2018:
The worst thing about Fox is to keep some form of balance MSNBC had to go further left. While MSNBC has far more integrity than Fox and doesn't lie and spread propaganda like Fox they're in perpetual "They're full of BS mode" and consequently the quality and quantity of actual news has diminished ...
David1955 replies on May 17, 2018:
I'm in Australia but watch these services. Watching NBC morning joe program yesterday, I had never seen such trolling as I saw them do against Trump. Don't get me wrong, I'm a socialist and a Bernie Sanders man, and wish Trump the very worst, but they were doing a number on Trump, "Mr Trump, a smart man like you, being told by your lawyers not to talk to Mueller... They think they are smarter than you Mr President... How could they think that ? .. just because they went to fancy colleges.. We know how smart you are..... " and on it went, trolling Trump, playing to his vanity, using reverse psychology, knowing that if Trump does Mueller, Mueller will do Trump for breakfast. I loved it, and yet the blatancy of it was so obvious for mainstream media. CNN do not like Trump, but they do keep it professional.
Who is your favorite Atheist?
LenHazell53 comments on May 15, 2018:
Bertrand Russell His books literally changed my life
David1955 replies on May 16, 2018:
Me too. Me too.
Are there any Gnostic Atheist out there besides me?
David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:
For the life of me I cannot understand why a position of saying I'm an atheist because there's not a scrap of evidence for God, past or present, and I'll only change my position if some clear evidence is presented, and leave the rest of the hypothesising and speculating to what may or may not exist,...
David1955 replies on May 15, 2018:
@kensmile4u it is not my own science to state the simple proposition that a negative does not have to be proven. You think you are right, OK, well then try this: like it or not there is no evidence to support the existence or absence of leprechauns. If you believe that leprechauns do not exist you have a belief. Another leap of faith too, I suppose.
Robert Reich: The Poor Should Work Harder, but Billionaires Deserve a Break—Right, Trump?
Rugglesby comments on May 14, 2018:
Same in Oz, tax cuts for the top end, reduction in corporate taxes, no increases in the lowest incomes for almost 25 years. Everybody is screaming about it, but that same everybody are the same clowns who voted in our current disastrous government.
David1955 replies on May 15, 2018:
Trickle-down discredited economics, alive and well in Oz, 30 years behind as always. From our trickle-down discredited PM.
Android App, new version.
Admin comments on May 14, 2018:
This is a bug in Google's code. Your login worked but you need to press the "Google" button one more time on the app and you'll be logged in. We hope Google fixes this soon.
David1955 replies on May 15, 2018:
@Admin Version details: Android version 5.0 It's the latest version Samsung have updated on this Galaxy Note. They won't update any further, darn them. Thanks
Are there any Gnostic Atheist out there besides me?
David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:
For the life of me I cannot understand why a position of saying I'm an atheist because there's not a scrap of evidence for God, past or present, and I'll only change my position if some clear evidence is presented, and leave the rest of the hypothesising and speculating to what may or may not exist,...
David1955 replies on May 15, 2018:
@kensmile4u I've heard these arguments before. They don't impress. And I don't like being told what I "have to admit". And I am sick sick sick of agnostics and pseudo agnostics claiming there is no evidence that God does not exist. Like there has to be. And I haven't drawn any conclusion without evidence. Certainly no leap of faith. The absence of evidence of any God is a fact. Prove otherwise. I don't have to disprove it. Believe what you want, but don't mischaracterise my position, or atheism. Thank you.
Are there any Gnostic Atheist out there besides me?
David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:
For the life of me I cannot understand why a position of saying I'm an atheist because there's not a scrap of evidence for God, past or present, and I'll only change my position if some clear evidence is presented, and leave the rest of the hypothesising and speculating to what may or may not exist,...
David1955 replies on May 14, 2018:
@kensmile4u first, huge developments in cosmology and quantum theory have gone a long way to explain the origin of the universe. Read the experts on this, which I am not, but you find the inclusion of a god is a supernatural leap that helps nothing. Who created God? Everything must have a creator, this premise assumes. Why not just say a Cosmic Duck laid the egg of the universe? One supernatural explanation is as good an another. Second, no leap of faith is EVER required to reject a proposition that cannot be verified by evidence. This most definitely includes the proposition of a god.
Android App, new version.
Admin comments on May 14, 2018:
This is a bug in Google's code. Your login worked but you need to press the "Google" button one more time on the app and you'll be logged in. We hope Google fixes this soon.
David1955 replies on May 14, 2018:
No, I saw that comment about pressing the Google button again. Tried all that, but no log in. That's why I'm interested to hear if it works for others. If so I have a specific issue, don't know what.
Which Star Trek series is your favorite?
ScienceBiker comments on May 14, 2018:
I love them all equally but not all in equal parts. There are things in some series that I like better than others, and things from each series that I don't like at all. With TOS I loved the dynamics of the relationships between Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura .... I didn't like the mysogynistic ...
David1955 replies on May 14, 2018:
It is true that both TNG and Voyager were weighed down by a 80s-90s political correctness that is stifling to watch a bit these days. TOS had some archaic attitudes, like on women, but is less groan-able to watch because the series did push so many boundaries for its time.
Which Star Trek series is your favorite?
Betty comments on May 14, 2018:
The original. It touched on "taboos" and diversity in the early sixties long before our society was ready to accept it. Even though there were only three season it has endured. :)
David1955 replies on May 14, 2018:
Yes I agree with with that. Some criticize it for the stereotypes about women, and that is true, but for the time and in so many ways it was a boundary pusher. We have to judge things in their context, not just by modern political correctness.
Which Star Trek series is your favorite?
Connolly42 comments on May 14, 2018:
The Animated Series... (YES, I out-geeked all of you.)
David1955 replies on May 14, 2018:
Im going to get that.. on my list...
Holy crap! We have Holy Koolaid as a member! Holy Koolaid is a Youtuber definitely worth watching! ...
David1955 comments on May 13, 2018:
"Holy crap" There's tautology for you.
David1955 replies on May 14, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau duly noted, and will follow up, thanks. Was thinking perhaps you are turning into Frank from Everybody Loves Raymond. He made the saying famous. Actually, I say it myself.
Is Turnbull the worst PM we've ever had?
David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:
I have to agree with Senator Rugglesby on Abbot, though at least Abbot believed in something, namely going back to the 1950s, which was nuts, but in his retro mind he believed it. Turnbull believes in nothing. It's the worst thing I can say about anyone. He should have stayed at law, where your ...
David1955 replies on May 11, 2018:
@Rugglesby me too, just. 72, my matric year. Got to Uni because of Gough. I don't forget things like that.
Is apatheism similar to agnosticism?
DavidLaDeau comments on May 11, 2018:
It is a big difference to me. Not knowing is one thing, not caring is another. As a former fundamentalist I do care about how I was indoctrinated at a young age, how it affected my mental health and how religion affects others. I understand the position of not caring, but religion had a devastating ...
David1955 replies on May 11, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau it would be a pleasure but bring your magnetic boots. :-)
Is apatheism similar to agnosticism?
DavidLaDeau comments on May 11, 2018:
It is a big difference to me. Not knowing is one thing, not caring is another. As a former fundamentalist I do care about how I was indoctrinated at a young age, how it affected my mental health and how religion affects others. I understand the position of not caring, but religion had a devastating ...
David1955 replies on May 11, 2018:
Yeah, you've said there in a more serious way what I thought too. People have to right to be what they want. But to me the subject is too serious to be apathetic.
My daughter has taken up Christianity, despite all the work I put into her and her sister early on, ...
David1955 comments on May 9, 2018:
That's a really tough situation. I feel for you. My first thought was that maybe your daughter was rebelling against your view, as children do, but at age 40 she's well beyond that stage. Not sure what to say, other than be there for your granddaughter. Perhaps your daughter was born with a ...
David1955 replies on May 9, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau yes, it's an interesting subject, and your analysis has a lot of merit. I just cannot get over my observation of some people not born into religion or socialised into it who seem to have a pathological addiction to it. If it's not one religion it's another. Even if they have a religion there's always some new guru they're reading. Yes, I'm stereotyping, but I just sense their brains need it. While others born into religion just know from an early age that they don't buy it and move on. Subjective assessment, yes, not scientific, certainly, but if I'm honest that's what I think.
My daughter has taken up Christianity, despite all the work I put into her and her sister early on, ...
David1955 comments on May 9, 2018:
That's a really tough situation. I feel for you. My first thought was that maybe your daughter was rebelling against your view, as children do, but at age 40 she's well beyond that stage. Not sure what to say, other than be there for your granddaughter. Perhaps your daughter was born with a ...
David1955 replies on May 9, 2018:
@Enchanter your father sounds like a wise man.
There are level seven members who have only been here at Agnostic for a month.
CaroleKay comments on May 7, 2018:
I'm level 7 in a little over a month. It's easy to level up. I feel it's a perk and I earned it by participating, posting smart topics that engaged people, interacting with the site, joining groups, posting in those groups, I posted Art, music, photography, gardening, memes. Started my own group and...
David1955 replies on May 8, 2018:
@paul1967 @bingst @annaleda @admin @Emme @CaroleKay @hankster @NFAguy53 @Bingst @mistymoon77 I don't disagree with any of that. But discussing the point system, ensuring that it works as expected, as part of the site system, is perfectly reasonable, and does not have to reflect jealousy or pettiness. I think this post and thread has revealed a number interesting things. That's good.
There is a question which am sure has been round and round on here.
Annaleda comments on May 7, 2018:
Maybe this isn’t the place for you. We don’t really like prejudice people here. Your attitude about theists is sad. Every belief is welcome here.
David1955 replies on May 8, 2018:
@LetzGetReal it was a comment in reply to @Annaleda
There are level seven members who have only been here at Agnostic for a month.
bingst comments on May 8, 2018:
Perhaps there should be a limit on the RATE at which points accumulate. So many points a day, or week, or whatever, and that's it. Or... in some way make the time since signup an integral part of the level system.
David1955 replies on May 8, 2018:
@bingst I'm much the same, I just do what I do and the points do what they do. But I know my time here and contribution, and when I see someone here I've hardly noticed and after a short time they are level 6 or 7 I just scratch my head a bit. I didn't want to complain about it, but since the poster raised a good question I think it is good to discuss it.
There are level seven members who have only been here at Agnostic for a month.
Emme comments on May 8, 2018:
Maybe we shouldn't be in the Senate until we reach L10 then?
David1955 replies on May 8, 2018:
@hankster good question. I think the point system is a good one, and the levels. If there are any lurks in artificially manipulating it then these need to be looked at however.
There is a question which am sure has been round and round on here.
Shelton comments on May 8, 2018:
Believers usually welcome non-believers into their places of worship. In their eyes they are doing the non-believers a favor by showing them what they believe is the way. I believe this site is instrumental in sharing independent thinking and can benefit the believers as well as be informative to ...
David1955 replies on May 8, 2018:
Well yes, but start engaging and challenging believers in believer places and you'll find the welcome becomes pretty chilly pretty quickly and your presence is less than appreciated (unless they think they can convert you and you've got your credit card.)
There are level seven members who have only been here at Agnostic for a month.
Emme comments on May 8, 2018:
Maybe we shouldn't be in the Senate until we reach L10 then?
David1955 replies on May 8, 2018:
I don't see how that's a solution. If they have tricks to get to I 7 then l 10 is just a matter of time.
There are level seven members who have only been here at Agnostic for a month.
David1955 comments on May 7, 2018:
How do people get level 7 in a month? This is a related point but I have wondered how some reach higher levels so quickly, like a few days or weeks only. This has been on my mind and your post triggered it.
David1955 replies on May 8, 2018:
@CaroleKay I don't doubt it. Me too.
There is a question which am sure has been round and round on here.
Annaleda comments on May 7, 2018:
Maybe this isn’t the place for you. We don’t really like prejudice people here. Your attitude about theists is sad. Every belief is welcome here.
David1955 replies on May 7, 2018:
No, this is an issue at this site and is worthy of discussion, without reflecting badly on those who raise it.
There is a question which am sure has been round and round on here.
btroje comments on May 7, 2018:
It is up to Admin. It would be weird for someone coming here trying to convert people and I am pretty sure they would be scared off but I have seen a few people wanting to exchange ideas and I think that would be good.If they are all banned or hammered for their beliefs it might be a lost ...
David1955 replies on May 7, 2018:
There is some truth in what you say. I'm conflicted on this one. I'd like the site to be non religious only, but I can see some possible benefit from interaction.
There is a question which am sure has been round and round on here.
ScienceBiker comments on May 7, 2018:
Personally, I like it here because it's one of the few places I can get *away* from debating believers. I've been debating believers my entire life. The biggest believer I debated was myself. I'm done debating believers. There's plenty of places to go in the world to debate believers. This is ...
David1955 replies on May 7, 2018:
Yeah verily yeah
If you don't believe in "God" in the traditional sense (the one taught in the Christian bible but ...
JimG comments on May 6, 2018:
Atheists don't believe in god, but from what I've seen here some are okay with believing in any number of irrational, paranormal, or supernatural nonsense. So, I guess you can believe what you want as long as it's not divine and call yourself an atheist. I do hope however that anyone who believes ...
David1955 replies on May 7, 2018:
You may be right, fellow member, but not this atheist. With my run-ins with theists I'll tell them plainly I don't believe in and Gods or associated religions; also that I reject the entire spectrum of mysticism, magic, and supernatural nonsense, old age, new age, cults, sects, universe lickers, astro levitators, cosmic beamers, and universe trippers, and any other dang fool idea thought up by the religious, pseudo-religious, or the downright loop fruited 'spiritual' weirdos who have breathed in too much incense, without a scrap of proof or evidence. I agree with you and also believe every person on the side of religious non belief, whatever their designation, and reason and skepticism should be as unambiguous about rejecting the totality of nonsense that surrounds us.
If you could travel back in time and alter any one historical event, what would it be?
dahermit comments on Apr 28, 2018:
It is a paradox that if time travel were possible, you would not dare to go back in time and change anything. To do so, could/would result in an unpredictable and undesirable result. Consider that if someone went back in time and killed Hitler to save the 30 million people killed as the result of ...
David1955 replies on May 6, 2018:
@dahermit I'm aware of the argument. Some choose the 'change one thread in history and the whole picture changes' view, while others might say 'history is a tapestry and even if you change a few stitches the tapestry remains'. Who knows. Since this hypothetical will likely never be played out, we can speculate in safety. It may seem strange, but I'd rather take out Manson rather than Hitler, despite the enormity of the latter's crimes against humanity, because perhaps killing hitler might have led to an alternative even worse and militarily successful dictator from which we might never have recovered. Whereas Manson was a pimp, theif and conspiratorial multimurderer whose crimes could be expunged and the world a better place. But, you're right, who knows what the results would be.
Just want to let you know that I am thinking about the growing issue of trolling in groups - that ...
David1955 comments on May 5, 2018:
I'm not sure how to reconcile "following up with member deletions" with "not singling out specific members" in your post. Perhaps I'm misreading it. I would suggest the use of warnings and the use of deft rather than a heavy hand in this kind of thing. I do think that some of this extends from a ...
David1955 replies on May 6, 2018:
@kensmile4u no, if it were up to me it would be a site for the non religious only. But that's not the point. That's only my personal view. It's not my site. I was simply pointing out that while the site's mission refers to being for those who are good without Gods, it also allows the religious to join. That's something of a contradiction to me. May also explain some of the trolling. That was my point.
Who else out thar, is so tired of all the Trump Bashing ?
David1955 comments on May 5, 2018:
I see your point, but you might like to reconsider any view that Trump is no worse than any other president in terms of honestly, integrity, and personal propriety. I'm not American, but I have a little more respect for some past presidents than that.
David1955 replies on May 6, 2018:
@NotConvinced I'm the last person to believe mainstream media spin. But I am a student of history, including your country's, and my view is based on that.
Just as we cannot scientifically prove the existence of a creator, we cannot prove the non-existence...
TheAstroChuck comments on May 5, 2018:
We can in fact rule out scientifically all of the Gods of Abrahamic religions (Jewish, Christian, and Muslim). One has to first start by distinguishing between *personal* and *impersonal* Gods. See "Joseph Campbell, who was a religious scholar, made the following distinction between a personal God...
David1955 replies on May 5, 2018:
Yes, I don't accept an impersonal God myself, but it is consistent with a reality where such a god never turns up, never interferes, never prevents terrible events and never rights wrongs. In other words, the reality we have.
Just as we cannot scientifically prove the existence of a creator, we cannot prove the non-existence...
memorylikeasieve comments on May 5, 2018:
I thought one couldn't prove a negative, anyway? ?
David1955 replies on May 5, 2018:
There are some of the agnostic view, not all, who refuse to accept that basic tenet of science. Their view seems to be that you don't have to prove a negative unless it's a negative they remain agnostic over. Not credible.
Just want to let you know that I am thinking about the growing issue of trolling in groups - that ...
David1955 comments on May 5, 2018:
I'm not sure how to reconcile "following up with member deletions" with "not singling out specific members" in your post. Perhaps I'm misreading it. I would suggest the use of warnings and the use of deft rather than a heavy hand in this kind of thing. I do think that some of this extends from a ...
David1955 replies on May 5, 2018:
@bingst just to point out that regarding the site name issue, I was not referring to the agnostic/atheist issue, but rather the matter of a site for *nonbelievers* generally which also allows religious believers to join. So, it's not just a site for people who are good without Gods, despite its name. That's the contradiction I was referring to. I know you got this point but I'm not sure everyone commenting here did.
I am currently debating a “know it all” Christian who does not understand there is very little ...
DavidLaDeau comments on May 5, 2018:
Hope this makes it easy. Bionic Dance on YouTube hits on this all the time. Agnostic is a knowledge statement- I do not know if there is a God. Atheist is a Belief statement- I do not believe there is a God. I am 100% certain with all my knowledge and experience that there is no God I am ...
David1955 replies on May 5, 2018:
I would politely disagree just in one respect. I would not say atheism is a 'belief statement' but rather a position statement. A position can always be revised and updated, for example if new evidence appears. If theists would like to present new definitive evidence about deities, as an atheist I would look at it. Given that over thousands of years they never have shown any and I have no expectation that they ever will, but that's the case in theory. The word 'belief' is more problematic for me.
Do Some Atheists Seem Superior?
AmiSue comments on May 3, 2018:
It's not an atheist thing, it's a person thing. You'll see atheists on our site aggressively arguing the 'correct' way to define atheist/be atheist. Anyone acting superior needs to be ignored, I can't see reasoning doing much good honestly.
David1955 replies on May 4, 2018:
And some agnostics too, let's be honest, if we are noting aggressively arguing persons. As you said, it's a person thing. I don't know if superior is right, but there can be irreconcilable differences and it's pointless going down the same old rabbit holes. This is something I have learned here since I joined last year. With religionists, it's par for the course. But I've found it can happen with some on the non religious side. It has been a surprise to me, actually.
I'm interested in what else you do in Oz in support of your non religious views?
David1955 comments on Apr 12, 2018:
Just thinking that just as most Australians don't take their religions to extremes, compared say to the US, secular minded Australians likewise aren't so animated in their secularism to be part of formal organisations or be activists. I guess it cuts both ways.
David1955 replies on May 4, 2018:
@MsDemeanour yes,some of the stories some atheist members here in the US tell of being afraid to say they are atheists is very disturbing to me.
Those of you who are 100% certain there is no god...
SmartKidCorner comments on May 2, 2018:
I cannot say for sure. This is why I am agnostic, rather than atheist. This is an important question.
David1955 replies on May 3, 2018:
@SmartKidCorner so, how do you "know" there is no biblical God as compared to any other type of God? As an atheist I'm intrigued how you can say you know one type of God doesn't exist but maybe other gods might. I don't think you can and be consistent. It's this kind of picking and choosing between more or less possible gods that makes the agnostic position impossible for me. An atheist's view is consistent: there is no evidence for ANY God. Disagree with the position, but it is consistent.
What do atheist You Tubers miss? What should they address that they don't?
TheMiddleWay comments on May 2, 2018:
This was originally a reply to another but it took a life of it's own. Atheism itself is not a religion: clearly no god nor any fixed rituals nor anything typically associated with religion. Yes, some have a belief in the supernatural like crystals and aliens, but I don't consider that a ...
David1955 replies on May 3, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau just an affirmation of your comment that you've never heard anyone say that science proves that God does not exist. Nor have I. No atheist intellectual I respect would say that, any more than they would agree that atheism has to prove that any or all gods do not exist. (To prove a negative). More straw men arguments.
What do atheist You Tubers miss? What should they address that they don't?
David1955 comments on May 2, 2018:
I'd like to see more energetically plain speaking confronting atheist channels on YouTube. There are a lot of channels but they are too damned polite. I like Kyle Kulinski's Secular Talk, but he mostly talks about politics. I'm not complaining. I agree with him 100% of the time. He just doesn't ...
David1955 replies on May 2, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau understood.
CEO Mark Zuckerberg Says Facebook Will Rank News Outlets By Trustworthiness | HuffPost
Ellatynemouth comments on May 2, 2018:
This is the establishment telling us which news sources we can and can't read. The ruling class owned media have been in control for decades, telling us to agree to their wars, telling us who to vote for, covering up things they want hidden, exposing things they don't. For the first time ...
David1955 replies on May 2, 2018:
That's about it.
Star Trek Discovery fans?
David1955 comments on May 1, 2018:
It's a work in progress, but certainly quality tv. It's a shame to me that between the recent Star Trek movies and the new tv series they have trampled all over the ST mythology, which is what it, as entertainment, is. Borrowing this and taking and changing that. There have been too many cooks at ...
David1955 replies on May 1, 2018:
@MikeInBatonRouge no, I don't think I'm a purist. Of course the production values will improve over time. But mythologies need to have an internal logic, a consistency within that imaginary place. The Star Wars people, despite being space opera rather than science fiction, have done a better job generally in reconciling their past, present and future story lines. In ST they just cut and slice anything they want from the past and tough if it doesn't fit. Captain Pike in the original series went off to live in a VR beings type planet as he was very disabled. But in a movie a while back he was killed by Khan who was a silly reinvention of the original played by Montalban. No sense. They've got tech in Discovery that just couldn't exist. No problem. No big wars with Klingtons in ST TOS but a run in or two only. In Discovery, huge wars almost destroy the Federation. On it goes. You end up going, ok whatever. But the attachment to the mythology is impaired. The movies haven't been that successful. This new series is doing ok but not a runaway success. People have said similar things about it. I stand by what I said. I fear ST will fizzle into its own contradictions and inconsistencies as loyalty dissipates. Too many cooks, as I said.
Trump and the correspondents dinner
gearl comments on May 1, 2018:
Ana Navarro said it best when she attacked the snowflakes offended by Wolf.
David1955 replies on May 1, 2018:
I watch her on CNN. She really says it.
I no longer believe in the institution of marriage.
David1955 comments on Apr 29, 2018:
I tend to agree but people will keep doing it for all kinds of reasons. What's interesting to me, looking at this issue from a trend analysis view, are the various counter trends. I mean, on the other hand you got many who are cool on marriage, or feel unmotivated by it, or even negative about it. ...
David1955 replies on Apr 30, 2018:
@Hobartian we indeed live in an increasingly narcissistic social-economic culture when worth is all, but little has value, including relationships I fear.
I just made my first atheist YouTube video! It has been much to the credit of the people in this ...
David1955 comments on Apr 30, 2018:
Great. Where do I find it on YouTube? I couldn't.
David1955 replies on Apr 30, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau Checking your channel, it seems you are pitching these towards those who might be questioning their 'faith" rather than committed nonbelievers. Is that right? Will that remain the focus in future videos?
I just made my first atheist YouTube video! It has been much to the credit of the people in this ...
David1955 comments on Apr 30, 2018:
Great. Where do I find it on YouTube? I couldn't.
David1955 replies on Apr 30, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau Found you on Y T.
What is a god and how can you claim to know about it?
David1955 comments on Apr 29, 2018:
No, unless some real evidence emerged, and it hasn't in all human history, visions and mystical knowledge included. Your key phrase there was that atheists don't have to prove that gods do not exist. This cannot be overstated. Any argument that any God is unknowable is also false. Any God worth ...
David1955 replies on Apr 29, 2018:
@TheMiddleWay I will not engage with you any further on subjects other than site management as an L7 member. I made that clear before. Go bait other members.
If you could travel back in time and alter any one historical event, what would it be?
dahermit comments on Apr 28, 2018:
It is a paradox that if time travel were possible, you would not dare to go back in time and change anything. To do so, could/would result in an unpredictable and undesirable result. Consider that if someone went back in time and killed Hitler to save the 30 million people killed as the result of ...
David1955 replies on Apr 28, 2018:
From a purely logical point of view, you are quite right of course. The interesting thing about this impossible hypothetical is it reflects people's attachment to past things that happened, usually bad things, sometimes personal, sometimes historical, and what they would change. In that sense it's interesting. Some would change big things - eg Hitler- some would change personal things - eg love interest etc - and some, like me, a specific awful person/event. In my own case, taking out Charlie Manson, I find it hard to believe that this time travel intervention would make the world a worse place.
Fantastic movie about female Greek scientist Hypatia and colleagues murdered by fanatic Christians ...
David1955 comments on Apr 26, 2018:
The movie is not accurate about her death. It was hideous. She was dragged from a carriage, stripped naked, dragged through the streets, then descended upon by the Christian mob, cut into pieces with shells and other sharp objects, and then burnt to ash. It is recorded in more than one ...
David1955 replies on Apr 28, 2018:
@crazycurlz you're too kind. :-) In pitch black room at midnight during a total eclipse I'm told I'm a dead ringer for Tom Cruise. ;-)
So here is a question.
David1955 comments on Apr 27, 2018:
This issue has concerned me from the beginning. The point system encourages posts, so there can be a motivation to post on anything to get points. On the other hand I've noticed that some people just like to post a lot, and some not so much but comment a lot. The posts are the life blood of the ...
David1955 replies on Apr 28, 2018:
@Annaleda well, having been here since last December and watching the site grow, it is the case that members can focus on what interests them. I like to focus on the religion related areas, while that's not your main focus as you said. That's fine.
If you could travel back in time and alter any one historical event, what would it be?
jwd45244 comments on Apr 28, 2018:
I would take a gun back to the Council of Nicea and kill as many of those fuckers as I could. Then I would burn every scrap of paper in the room.
David1955 replies on Apr 28, 2018:
I like it!
So here is a question.
David1955 comments on Apr 27, 2018:
This issue has concerned me from the beginning. The point system encourages posts, so there can be a motivation to post on anything to get points. On the other hand I've noticed that some people just like to post a lot, and some not so much but comment a lot. The posts are the life blood of the ...
David1955 replies on Apr 27, 2018:
@Akfishlady no, your point is understood. We should be wary of any issues like this. This site will benefit from a reputation of not tolerating any such nonsense.
Fantastic movie about female Greek scientist Hypatia and colleagues murdered by fanatic Christians ...
David1955 comments on Apr 26, 2018:
The movie is not accurate about her death. It was hideous. She was dragged from a carriage, stripped naked, dragged through the streets, then descended upon by the Christian mob, cut into pieces with shells and other sharp objects, and then burnt to ash. It is recorded in more than one ...
David1955 replies on Apr 27, 2018:
@crazycurlz I suppose, as I recall. I remember the Spanish director was concerned about not offending the Catholic Church so the facts were muted. Read a good article about her first and then watch the movie.
I am beginning to see more articles and posts on social media criticising 'The new atheism' and its ...
WizardBill comments on Apr 26, 2018:
There has ALWAYS been a backlash against us. Nothing new here.
David1955 replies on Apr 26, 2018:
No, I think there is something more concerted going on now in mainstream media, politics and elsewhere. It is in response to growing secularism.
Rewrite the "Academic (e.g. science)" category?
David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:
Are you not inferring a typical academic distinction between the physical sciences and social sciences, and drawing a clear line between these recognised disciplines and so-called pseudo- sciences which are not recognised as academic disciplines at all? I would see it this way.
David1955 replies on Apr 26, 2018:
@phxbillcee Same here, that's why it needs to be separated from quality science,
Royals: They are born; they urinate; they defecate; they copulate; they flatulate.
David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
It's all a lot of archaic anachronistic nonsense that should have been relegated to history in the 20th century. At least those of you on the US threw off the British and went forward. Here in Australia we still can't decide to be a Republic with many hanging on to all that Royal nonsense. But ...
David1955 replies on Apr 26, 2018:
@Hobartian Adelaide. There are quite a few Australians here but not all of them are very active. I hope that changes in the future.
Royals: They are born; they urinate; they defecate; they copulate; they flatulate.
David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
It's all a lot of archaic anachronistic nonsense that should have been relegated to history in the 20th century. At least those of you on the US threw off the British and went forward. Here in Australia we still can't decide to be a Republic with many hanging on to all that Royal nonsense. But ...
David1955 replies on Apr 25, 2018:
@Hobartian I meant here in this community, on this site. Sorry for any ambiguity.
Royals: They are born; they urinate; they defecate; they copulate; they flatulate.
David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
It's all a lot of archaic anachronistic nonsense that should have been relegated to history in the 20th century. At least those of you on the US threw off the British and went forward. Here in Australia we still can't decide to be a Republic with many hanging on to all that Royal nonsense. But ...
David1955 replies on Apr 25, 2018:
@Hobartian hello. The number of Australians here is growing. Not sure if you know, but there is a group here for us. Aussie skeptics.
WE ARE FAMILY!!! We have become somewhat like a family here wouldn't you agree?
David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:
I plan to be the crazy old uncle that you keep away from the cooking sherry. :-)
David1955 replies on Apr 25, 2018:
@memorylikeasieve no, in this family, weird is normal. Keep showing.
The Senate chat room is open for testing today from 6-8pm EST.
David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:
Not sure it's going to really those of us on different time zones. Oh well.
David1955 replies on Apr 25, 2018:
@Admin sounds good, thanks.
What would you say to God if when you died you were faced with him?
PerbeMayhaps comments on Apr 24, 2018:
Why did you make chocolate kill dogs? If you hate homosexuality so much, why is the male G-spot up the ass? Is the set of all sets that are not members of themselves a member of itself? What’s for lunch?
David1955 replies on Apr 24, 2018:
Is it? Gosh, you learn something on this site everyday. Sometimes it's almost useful. While you're asking him about the G-spot thingy, can you also ask why, sexually speaking, to use a gun metaphor, women are designed like machine guns but men are designed like flintlocks that take quite an effort to reload. Always bugged me, that. I would ask him but I'm too bashful. :-)
Hi just discovered I'm in a new group-lol. How is this group different from L7U?
KKGator comments on Apr 22, 2018:
It's kind of like the Imperial Senate in Star Wars. j/k It's to work with Admin on improving the site, as needed.
David1955 replies on Apr 23, 2018:
So who is Palpatine in this analogy?
This may seem trivial to some but I'm really into this point system.
David1955 comments on Apr 22, 2018:
I have at say that I don't even know what my current points are. I don't think I've ever looked. I have never allowed it to govern my contribution here. It goes up as it does. I contribute as I wish, to varying degrees. I see the value of the points system, and I'm not passing judgement on others, ...
David1955 replies on Apr 23, 2018:
Apropos the above, I should note however that I just looked at my level at its still 7.1. Now I think it's been 7.1 since Caesar crossed the Rubicon.. or was it when Alexander founded Alexandria.. Oh well. :-)
Welcome to this new group for experienced members!
David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:
Should we not refer to each other as 'Honourable Senators"?
David1955 replies on Apr 21, 2018:
@LEPeff :-)
Welcome to this new group for experienced members!
ipdg77 comments on Apr 21, 2018:
The Senate? Can't we have a House of Lords & Lasses? :-)
David1955 replies on Apr 21, 2018:
@ipdg77 careful. If you know Roman history then senators used to sometimes be seen floating down the Tiber, and I don't mean happily. :-)
I’ve often wondered how the term “'New Atheism”' gained such currency.
David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Since the advent of this term and the activists you mention, as I call them respectfully, my view has been that while atheism is not new, obviously, going back to ancient times, what is *new* is the *attitude* of many modern atheists, and I include myself. New atheists, if you like, have a new ...
David1955 replies on Apr 21, 2018:
@Slappy_Longarms right, I perhaps wouldn't have put it so colourfully, but that's the idea yes. :-)
All in all this app is pretty dope, although it often feels more like social media platform than a ...
David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
The use of the word "dope" here as an adjective threw me. I'd never heard of it used as anything other than a noun or verb. I checked to discover than in colloquial English it means "very good" which I find odd since the word applied to a person is a negative. It seems in language these days, as ...
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@AssassinofWords ok. Well I learn something everyday.
What is your impression of Unitarian Universalist?
intrepid65 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Unitarian means they do not accept the claim that Jesus was God. And Universalist means everyone gets to heaven no matter what you believe. They do not require you believe heaven is in the afterlife either. So you are covered. :)
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@Kojaksmom atheism is the rejection of all supernatural phenomena, including all gods, in view of a total lack of evidence. No faith required. Provide evidence and the position can be revisited. No one ever provides this. Your proposition that atheism is a kind of religion based on some kind of bizarre faith is the kind of nonsense that we get from religionists who attack atheism usually out of fear or because they think this cheap argument might work for them. It's disappointing to read it in this community frankly.
Royals: They are born; they urinate; they defecate; they copulate; they flatulate.
dahermit comments on Apr 20, 2018:
A lot of the Brits feel the same way. However, royal stuff is why the majority of non-Brit tourists visit Briton...they are THE major tourist attaction (read $$$$$).
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
Yes, true, but mostly tourists see buildings and landmarks and historical places, not the royals themselves, so I've never been that impressed by the tourist argument. Yes there are Royal weddings and so, but these are occasional and for the most part it's the history and architecture tourists see.
What is your impression of Unitarian Universalist?
intrepid65 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Unitarian means they do not accept the claim that Jesus was God. And Universalist means everyone gets to heaven no matter what you believe. They do not require you believe heaven is in the afterlife either. So you are covered. :)
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@Kojaksmom then you are wrong, and I wonder why you are here. Anyone who confuses religion with atheism hasn't focused on key definitions. And you think atheism is a religion but this Unitarian thing isn't ? How very odd.
What is your impression of Unitarian Universalist?
David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Well I had look it up. Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion characterized by a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning".Unitarian Universalists assert no creed, but instead are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. As such, their congregations include many ...
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@Kojaksmom well according to Wiki.... "The Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA) was formed in 1961 through the consolidation of the American Unitarian Association, established in 1825, and the Universalist Church of America,[10] established in 1793." So, this iteration goes back to 1961, and seems to have a new age theme to it, though its antecedents go back.
What is your impression of Unitarian Universalist?
intrepid65 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Unitarian means they do not accept the claim that Jesus was God. And Universalist means everyone gets to heaven no matter what you believe. They do not require you believe heaven is in the afterlife either. So you are covered. :)
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
Sounds like religion to me.
What is your impression of Unitarian Universalist?
David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Well I had look it up. Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion characterized by a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning".Unitarian Universalists assert no creed, but instead are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. As such, their congregations include many ...
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@DavidLaDeau you mean starting an atheist subgroup of this community? Might they frown on that? (Heretic?)
Some site updates 1.
David1955 comments on Apr 19, 2018:
The resource centre sounds interesting. I'm wondering what "donate" here means from a copyright point of view. Could we share texts and titles for the community to read? I have a huge library of ePub and PDFs on the subjects discussed here. Others overtime have shared with me and I would very ...
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@FrayedBear Okay, point taken.
Some site updates 1.
David1955 comments on Apr 19, 2018:
The resource centre sounds interesting. I'm wondering what "donate" here means from a copyright point of view. Could we share texts and titles for the community to read? I have a huge library of ePub and PDFs on the subjects discussed here. Others overtime have shared with me and I would very ...
David1955 replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@FrayedBear I think there was a misunderstanding. There was an error in my comment. I meant "Not quite SURE what the Tele App group is for .." It was not meant as a criticism. Sorry for the confusion. Wish the group well. My view is any info about the app can be given as a general post. That's all I meant.
Some site updates 1.
David1955 comments on Apr 19, 2018:
The resource centre sounds interesting. I'm wondering what "donate" here means from a copyright point of view. Could we share texts and titles for the community to read? I have a huge library of ePub and PDFs on the subjects discussed here. Others overtime have shared with me and I would very ...
David1955 replies on Apr 19, 2018:
@FrayedBear at the moment you can't sign into the app with Google email address and password so until that changes the App can't be used and access is only through browser. Not quite what the Tele app group is for. I think these things should be shared for all community.
Anyone watch the James Comey interview?
DenoPenno comments on Apr 16, 2018:
I didn't watch it but I did see a few clips. I think Comey is trying to sell his book. When he tells us that Trump is morally unfit to be president he says nothing that others did not already know. Being against impeachment and saying the way of getting Trump out is to vote him out is actually ...
David1955 replies on Apr 18, 2018:
Yes, I think he was a terrible Director of the FBI. The people who worked there liked him, but that's not the test. It's competence in the job, and keeping a low profile and acting honourably, if that's possible. He failed these. He should look in the mirror. I agree with you that he hasnt said anything about Trump that any sensible informed person didn't know in 2016, at least on character.
We could rename this the Mature Agnostic Group.
David1955 comments on Apr 18, 2018:
I'm sorry mate but while I see some of the points you are making, I'm not sure exactly what your proposal is and why. Rename the group to mature agnostics? Why agnostic? Can you elaborate a bit. Thanks.
David1955 replies on Apr 18, 2018:
@Rugglesby I think a name change like "world weary, been there, done that, seen it all, gimme a break non believers Group" might capture the flavour of it. :-)
Joseph Campbell, who was a religious scholar, made the following distinction between a personal God ...
SKH78 comments on Apr 17, 2018:
Perhaps "god" or some sort of force got things in motion, then sat back and let the things do what they wanted.
David1955 replies on Apr 18, 2018:
The God of free will, you mean. Curiously, that's the only kind of God that would make any sense to me, at least logically. No point praying to such a god or having a religion because it just lets things unfold as they do. No interference. I don't believe in such a god, but at least it would be consistent with our crappy unfair world.
What can I do to be a better representative of atheists?
NoMagicCookie comments on Apr 16, 2018:
I am a very outspoken atheist and often engage with theists. The foundation of my arguments usually include, because I value truth, (things that can be demonstrated) and all religions are based on faith (things that can not be demonstrated) asserted as truth (what I consider to be dishonest) I ...
David1955 replies on Apr 17, 2018:
@Nomack I was making a comparative point that your comment previously asking for proof that a god/s does not exist is a false question. You don't have to prove a negative. This is understood in science and evidence based reasoning. It wasn't a serious question to you about proving those things don't exist, but you missed it. Considering your last reply that's all I have to say to you.
What can I do to be a better representative of atheists?
NoMagicCookie comments on Apr 16, 2018:
I am a very outspoken atheist and often engage with theists. The foundation of my arguments usually include, because I value truth, (things that can be demonstrated) and all religions are based on faith (things that can not be demonstrated) asserted as truth (what I consider to be dishonest) I ...
David1955 replies on Apr 17, 2018:
@Nomack if it's okay to ask for a demonstration that one form of supernatural phenomena does not exist then it should apply to all forms of such phenomena. Of course as an atheist my view is that it is up to those making claims about such phenomena to prove them, not for nonbelievers to disprove them. It's also a basis of science and the notion of presentation of evidence.
What can I do to be a better representative of atheists?
NoMagicCookie comments on Apr 16, 2018:
I am a very outspoken atheist and often engage with theists. The foundation of my arguments usually include, because I value truth, (things that can be demonstrated) and all religions are based on faith (things that can not be demonstrated) asserted as truth (what I consider to be dishonest) I ...
David1955 replies on Apr 16, 2018:
@Nomack Please demonstrate that witches don't exist. And while you're at it, I will sleep a whole lot easier at night knowing that ghosts don't exist as well. So, please demonstrate that too. Thanks.
Should there even be the concept of a "billionaire"?
jwd45244 comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Why is assumed that if someone is wealthy they made their wealth on the backs of others? Paul McCartney is a billionaire. Bill Gates founded Microsoft and help to create the technology wave in which we are living. Does he need his wealth? No. However, he is entitled to it as he owns shares in ...
David1955 replies on Apr 16, 2018:
@IAMGROOT my final comment to you is re read my previous comment - a mixed economy with a balance of public and private enterprise, I said. I'm not pissing on anything. We have federal, state and local taxes too. Most countries have layers of taxation. They cover different things. That's not the point. The point is the fairness of taxation as applied. Your hostility should be directed to the corporate elites and alike who play the system and thrive while ordinary working people get screwed. That's where this post started. Instead you criticise those who focus on the rising egregious inequality. You follow a fantasy that some 'pure' form of capitalism will save the day. Your thinking is 30 years out of date. This is the kind of crap that lead to right wing freemarket ideology that took hold from the 1980s. It in turn has lead to the situation we have today with unsustainable inequality and oligarchic capitalism. And what is your solution? A flat consumption tax, much loved by the political Right. Of course. Rich or poor get whacked the same. No, not the same. The poor get whacked, while the rich have all the lurks, perks and schemes to play the system to their advantage. The usual.
Why to call yourself "Atheist" instead of "Agnostic."
hemingwaykitten comments on Apr 15, 2018:
I believe agnostic is the more accurate overall term. You may be atheist, but you CAN'T prove a negative. Wishing won't make it so. You have no more evidence for atheism than a Christian does for belief. So why don't you knock off trying to sow dissention in the ranks?
David1955 replies on Apr 16, 2018:
@BrightTyger979 @hemingwaykitten yes, there's no sexism here. Only arguments that do or don't stack up. I respect people's right to be agnostic, but not arguments against atheism that are not valid.
Should there even be the concept of a "billionaire"?
jwd45244 comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Why is assumed that if someone is wealthy they made their wealth on the backs of others? Paul McCartney is a billionaire. Bill Gates founded Microsoft and help to create the technology wave in which we are living. Does he need his wealth? No. However, he is entitled to it as he owns shares in ...
David1955 replies on Apr 16, 2018:
@IAMGROOT Russia and China's increased prosperity is the result of the application of Capitalism?! That's really funny. You really are as confused on these issues as you are outraged about socialism, even if you have only the simplist definition of it.Russia and China break all the rules of free market economics and your beloved laissez faire capitalism and have state based monopolies, oligarchies, authoritarian regimes, with private enterprise skewed to these systems, and you praise them. I see. So, a democratic based mixed economy, with a balance of public and private enterprise, a fair salary structure and social welfare system to prevent poverty and social alienation, along with a decent public health system, all paid for by reasonable taxation based on ability to pay - that's the terrible socialism (or what we more informed folk would call social democracy) you despise and want to flee, but oligarchy and authoritarianism is just fine as long as some people get stinking rich. Well, you know what, I don't agree.
What is your conspiracy fear that seems like nobody else thinks about?
David1955 comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Mine. That the Manson Cult, specifically he and certain core members, had links to the US government's domestic covert programs( eg Operation Chaos) to infiltrate, subvert, inform on, or provide info on anti establishment movements in the late 60s. Anti Vietnam, Black Panther, politicised hippie ...
David1955 replies on Apr 16, 2018:
@Virgoan the real story is not that Manson and co we're not guilty. They very much were. It's certainly the case that they killed more than those attributed to them. The rest of the story is about their connections, as referred to in my comment, who gave them money, why Manson, a parolee wasn't busted months and months earlier despite repeated violations, who some of his gang were (Eg main murderer Tex Watson, protected in Texas for also most a year until the trial was over, then a low key trial for him) and why all the links between actors and musicians and others in Laurel Canyon and elsewhere were ignored, covered up and left out. That's just for starters. They wouldn't get away with it now, with modern media and public cynicism about the govt. It was very different back then. I remember, like it was yesterday.
Why to call yourself "Atheist" instead of "Agnostic."
hemingwaykitten comments on Apr 15, 2018:
I believe agnostic is the more accurate overall term. You may be atheist, but you CAN'T prove a negative. Wishing won't make it so. You have no more evidence for atheism than a Christian does for belief. So why don't you knock off trying to sow dissention in the ranks?
David1955 replies on Apr 16, 2018:
@hemingwaykitten no, no. It's a basic point of science and enquiry. Proposition forwarded, proposition fails or succeeds based on the evidence, if the evidence does not support the proposition then it fails. It is not up to nonbelievers of the proposition to prove it is wrong. What if I use the reverse the argument. Do you believe in witches? If you don't then please reply showing me your evidence why witches do NOT exist. It's up to you, according to you, to prove to those who do believe in them why they do not exist. I look forward to your answer. (unless of course you at an agnostic on witches too) .
Why to call yourself "Atheist" instead of "Agnostic."
hemingwaykitten comments on Apr 15, 2018:
I believe agnostic is the more accurate overall term. You may be atheist, but you CAN'T prove a negative. Wishing won't make it so. You have no more evidence for atheism than a Christian does for belief. So why don't you knock off trying to sow dissention in the ranks?
David1955 replies on Apr 15, 2018:
You don't have to prove a negative. It's up to people proposing supernatural claims to prove them. Would you say that I cannot claim to be an a-leprechaunist because I can't prove they don't exist? Of course not. Same with God. Guess what, I'm not an agnostic about leprechauns either. The atheist position is consistent about all unproven claims.
Why to call yourself "Atheist" instead of "Agnostic."
sassygirl3869 comments on Apr 14, 2018:
I just use "freethinker" and call myself a cultural Jew.
David1955 replies on Apr 15, 2018:
You know that a lot of religious people also call themselves freethinkers. I've known them. Freethinkers and they believe their religion too. Whatever you or I might think about that, the term freethinker is open to interpretation. So, I can't accept the term as synonymous or relating to a non religious view, like atheist and agnostic.I just make this point. @marga
Hi, I am a new member and have already been welcomed by a couple of people, which is really nice.
Rugglesby comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Hi and welcome, I am on the NBN so you won't see this for a while. I will climb up on my roof, face west and yell. That would work better.
David1955 replies on Apr 15, 2018:
@Rugglesby oh, jeez. No wonder you are pissed. Between the two political parties they've totally f-ed up what should have been a national investment infrastructure here in Oz. I've read that G5 G6 mobile will leave fibre optic behind in the foreseeable future. So it might just be the most expensive white elephant in the country.
Should there even be the concept of a "billionaire"?
jwd45244 comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Why is assumed that if someone is wealthy they made their wealth on the backs of others? Paul McCartney is a billionaire. Bill Gates founded Microsoft and help to create the technology wave in which we are living. Does he need his wealth? No. However, he is entitled to it as he owns shares in ...
David1955 replies on Apr 15, 2018:
@IAMGROOT Russia is no longer Communist. China is now a weaponised form of state capitalism. You are back in the 1970s. Pure laissez faire capitalism has never existed except in right wing wet dreams. Your understanding of the word socialism is simplistic at best. And finally, every tax, every subsidy, every financial lurk, perk or benefit, every financial intervention of whatever form is a kind of wealth regulation. It's just a question of for whom the regulation benefits, and for the most part it benefits the rich, certainly in your country and in mine. And when you are ready to flee your "socialist" country where are you going to go? Europe - socialist in your terms; the UK, what with national health and social service programs? Australia? With our health and social welfare - don't think so, Africa, Latin America, where right wing economics are discredited. So where? Well perhaps they follow pure Adam Smith economics on Mars. Have a nice trip. Gimme a break pal.
Hi, I am a new member and have already been welcomed by a couple of people, which is really nice.
RobAnybody comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Welcome from Toowoomba, epicenter of Australia's most conservative electorate.
David1955 replies on Apr 15, 2018:
But great fruit, as I recall.
Hi, I am a new member and have already been welcomed by a couple of people, which is really nice.
Rugglesby comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Hi and welcome, I am on the NBN so you won't see this for a while. I will climb up on my roof, face west and yell. That would work better.
David1955 replies on Apr 15, 2018:
What's the problem with your NBN? Mine works ok, is reliable, and I'm on 50 mb. What I don't like is the high price, but then it is Australia, so what's new, and the fact we still use these damn routers which drop out. Weak link in the chain IMHO. We should have invested in national 4G 5G and so on. What's yours like?
Should there even be the concept of a "billionaire"?
jwd45244 comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Why is assumed that if someone is wealthy they made their wealth on the backs of others? Paul McCartney is a billionaire. Bill Gates founded Microsoft and help to create the technology wave in which we are living. Does he need his wealth? No. However, he is entitled to it as he owns shares in ...
David1955 replies on Apr 14, 2018:
No one is suggesting that there won't be wealthy individuals. I myself said earlier that a limit of 500 million should be reasonable reward for any individual. But my question to you is what should be done about ever concentration of wealth, and therefore power, in fewer and fewer hands; the creation of elites of not just billionaires but billionaires hundreds of times over; the creation of ever increasing poor stratas while middle classes vanish.... elites and then super elites of very likely trillionaires? Don't tell me that hard word and initiative will create a workably reasonably wealth-shared societies. Many people work extremely hard just to barely survive. I hear from right wingers and fellow travellers about jealousy, class envy, and all the rest on this issue. Never any solutions other than freemarket (so called) capitalism and market based solutions, while rampant inequality increases. So, what do you suggest needs to happen to redress the trend towards plutocracy and, very likely, authoritarianism with it? ( Like what is happening in the US now) If not through taxation, wealth regulation and other political-financial measures, as proposed here, then what?
Should there even be the concept of a "billionaire"?
IamNobody comments on Apr 14, 2018:
We all have the right to say "It's my money"..... How come it is any different for a billionaire? ( Or another standpoint, you may disagree all you want and yet you are a billionaire in the eyes of the less fortunate)
David1955 replies on Apr 14, 2018:
The country has the right to say, it is your money but you have to pay tax for the good of the country and what it needs. It does that now, it's called taxation, and on ordinary people on whom the burden disproportionately falls because they don't have access to smart ass financial advisers and all the lurks and schemes that allow the rich and corporations to pay comparatively little compared to everyday working people. The figures of growing indeed obscene wealth inequality since the age of right wing economics post 1980s cannot be denied. The decline of the middle class as a result of this outcome cannot be denied. It will not be dealt with as long as the debate is couched in terms of 'envy' and individual freedom attacks. How bad does it have to get - trillionaires, multi trillionaires, social and economic collapse, rampant domestic terrorism - before it is recognised as a systemic economic issue? I suspect it will.
Move to OZ.
David1955 comments on Apr 14, 2018:
Just bring lots of money with you to pay for the electricity bills, and the high cost of everything else. The gun laws will keep you safe while you are being price gouged for everything else. It's the greatest country in the world. We know this because the politicians and corporate media tell us so ...
David1955 replies on Apr 14, 2018:
@RobAnybody can you? Many Australians only get what that can.
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