Robert Reich: The Poor Should Work Harder, but Billionaires Deserve a Break—Right, Trump?

David1955 comments on May 15, 2018:

He's a great guy, always worth listening to. He made a doco a year or two ago about economics in the US. Excellent watching. Quite damning of the Clinton period, and I think Clinton was his student back in the day.

Holy crap! We have Holy Koolaid as a member! Holy Koolaid is a Youtuber definitely worth watching! ...

David1955 comments on May 14, 2018:

I sense that this guy's style appeals to you. He kind of targets specific issues and fleshes them out from the nonbeliever perspective. Interesting.

Does God exist?

David1955 comments on May 14, 2018:

Agree with you 100%. But prepared to be criticized some in the agnostic camp that claim that atheists, or those presenting your argument, have to prove that a God does not or God's do not exist. Basically to prove that negative. It's bizarre to me but you will hear it.

I'm spiritual

David1955 comments on May 14, 2018:

Absolutely. That crap gets nowhere with me. It's like a boast people make. Not around me and get away with it.

Which Star Trek series is your favorite?

David1955 comments on May 14, 2018:

Well, I'm a sucker for all of them, but TOS captures Roddenberry's 23 century secular vision better than any other series. I liked TNG but they should have thrown Wesley Crusher out the airlock. Absolutely love the character of Q. The greatest and most misunderstood character in the ST mythology. Voyager was sooooo politically correct it made my teeth ache. Love the episodes with Q in Voyager, though. The episode "Death Wish" has a number of huge philosophical implications about the Q Continuum. The space station series didn't do much for me, though others loved it. I really liked Enterprise, though it was fashioned in a post 9/11 environment and misty eyed Trekkers didn't care for it. The new one, Discovery, I'm holding judgement and see where it goes. It's a mess in terms of consistency with tv and movies, but there it is. I do feel Roddenberry's secular vision is just about gone, however. I suppose it reflects the age we live in, sadly.

Holy crap! We have Holy Koolaid as a member! Holy Koolaid is a Youtuber definitely worth watching! ...

David1955 comments on May 13, 2018:

"Holy crap" There's tautology for you.

Finally!!! Someone is standing up to the bully.

David1955 comments on May 13, 2018:

I agree. The Aust-US alliance should be one of mutual respect, but in truth we revel in being someone's little buddy, and that's how the US treats us and regards us really. When Trump spoke to Turnbull like a dog a little while back it wasn't just Trump being Trump, but a glimpse of the reality of US elite attitude to Australia. He let it slip, and they smoothed it over afterwards. Australia should be a country of principles, and we are, but mostly other country's principles. Of course, the Australian political, business and media elite maintain a concerted effort to discourage Australian self-criticism or even serious self reflection. The mantra and reverberating echo of Australian self-congratulation fills our media and public discourse. You can say anything you like about Australia, as long as it's glowing and not critical. This is never more truer than talking about our foreign policy. I've refused to go along with this mantra for years. It started with the right wing, but has now corrupted left of centre politics as well, just as conservative ideology had corrupted just about everything else about progressive politics. So, no, don't expect Australia to stand up against anything any US governments do. That's not what little buddies do. Little buddies are with you right or wrong, even while you're kicking them.

Drive-in movies

David1955 comments on May 12, 2018:

Oh man, now you're talking about my youth. Bad sound, rain, rotten food from the canteen and a picture that was basic at best, freeze your ass off during winter, what could beat that? Well, there was the girl and you in the back seat. :-) That might have had something to do with it. In my case I can even boast that my father was a part owner of a suburban drive-in and we didn't have to pay. Never made much money, but it cool saying we owned one. Fun days. It was the best excuse young guys and gals had to go somewhere and make out.

Athiestists and Astrology

David1955 comments on May 12, 2018:

Reading this thread I'm seriously thinking of throwing away my Tarot Cards, as well as my Iching sticks, not to mention my mystical tea pot for tea leaf reading, my astrological dart board, my fortune telling dice, and between you and me even the garden statue from which bird poop stain-divining is practiced is also on borrowed time. Thanks a lot. :-)

Are there any Gnostic Atheist out there besides me?

David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:

For the life of me I cannot understand why a position of saying I'm an atheist because there's not a scrap of evidence for God, past or present, and I'll only change my position if some clear evidence is presented, and leave the rest of the hypothesising and speculating to what may or may not exist, be supernaturally knowable, unknowable, detectable, undetectable, or cosmically floatable every third leap year, to those with too much time on their hands. Honestly I don't.

Has anything ever happened in your life that challenged your atheism and made you consider going ...

David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:

No, and I was never religious, so there was never anything to go back to. However, in a moment of honestly I will admit that the only time a slither of doubt creeps into my mind is when I see how cruel, unjust, unfair and horrible the world and life is for so many people that just for a moment I contemplate the possibility that there is a god, but an evil, uncaring, callous, vicious, vindictive, capricious and spiteful God, that I wouldn't worship even if he/she/it did appear before me. Then, my reason kicks in, and I remember scientific and philosophical minds that I respect, and their reminder that reality and the universe is under no obligation to confirm to subjective human thinking and folly, a by product of our brains which evolved to explain everything by simplistic cause and effect thinking. So, it passes.

Is Turnbull the worst PM we've ever had?

David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:

I have to agree with Senator Rugglesby on Abbot, though at least Abbot believed in something, namely going back to the 1950s, which was nuts, but in his retro mind he believed it. Turnbull believes in nothing. It's the worst thing I can say about anyone. He should have stayed at law, where your principles are whatever your client pays you to say. Whatever the room thinks, he thinks. He's as vacant mentally as an empty storage room. He's not even worth disliking. Abbot was worth disliking, in a counter intuitive kind of a way. Oh and Senator @Rugglesby, I have to say that if you are going to criticise Whitlam, then I'm going to ask you to step outside. It'll be a fair fight.. Sort of :-)

I think there should be a presidential executive order decreeing "no more executive orders".

David1955 comments on May 11, 2018:

While you are at it, I suggest the following: * end the rule that a President cannot be charged with a crime. * end Presidential pardons. * end the questionable matter that a President cannot be forced to give evidence in court, or to an investigation. It seems passing strange to me that a country built on the notion of leaving the Old World and the rule of Kings should give their President powers exceeding those even of a monarch.

Is apatheism similar to agnosticism?

David1955 comments on May 10, 2018:

I confess to being a bit jaundiced by this term apatheist. Seems to me to be an agnostic that's too lazy to get out of their own theological way. But that's me.

My daughter has taken up Christianity, despite all the work I put into her and her sister early on, ...

David1955 comments on May 9, 2018:

That's a really tough situation. I feel for you. My first thought was that maybe your daughter was rebelling against your view, as children do, but at age 40 she's well beyond that stage. Not sure what to say, other than be there for your granddaughter. Perhaps your daughter was born with a predisposition to religion. Some atheists think that people are born neutral on religion and it's all acquired. I would like to believe that, but life experience suggests otherwise to me. I hope time works out in your favour on this.

You are God for the day. What commandments would you make?

David1955 comments on May 9, 2018:

Thou shalt ignore me and use thy best judgment using thy evolved brain

Would you ever donate to a Youtuber?

David1955 comments on May 8, 2018:

Yes, Secular Talk, Kyle Kulinski. Kyle is good folks. :-) and SecureTeam. Young Tyler does well with UFO stuff.

What’s the most interesting experience you’ve had with a zealously religious person?

David1955 comments on May 8, 2018:

My story is not about a religious zealot, but a friend from long ago. At university 40 years ago, my closest friend in my final year was an academically brilliant guy who went on to study at Oxford. We had ongoing debates about religion as he was a very religious man. In a memorable debate I pressed him hard in Christian history, the historical Jesus, the nonsense of Christianity and the rest. He was so intelligent and I pressed him to explain to me why he believed this religious nonsense. The moment I remember like it was yesterday was when he looked at me and said, "You are absolutely right. These questions you ask are good questions and I don't have satisfactory answers. But I just have to "believe" ." We looked at each other. I was stunned. I told him that if I said something like that about any other subject he would shoot me down. He agreed. What I saw was the logical part of his brain telling his emotional part of his brain that his religion was crap but his emotional brain was saying that it couldn't let it go. I didn't know the term then, but it was the first time I ever saw real cognitive dissonance in a truly smart person.

There is a question which am sure has been round and round on here.

David1955 comments on May 8, 2018:

Another comment on this. Having been here since December, I've noticed some believers turn up, make a bit of a splash, and then you don't hear much or sometimes anything from them. I don't know what the stats are, but I suspect that the attrition rate of believers here might be quite high. Admin would know this. I suspect that believers find that this is not a community to tangle with, no conversion rich pickings here. Their religious arguments, historical, theological or scientific, are usually countered in spades. Others may have had run-ins with believers more than I have, but that's how it seems to me. If the longevity of believers here is comparatively short then maybe that's a good reflection on this community. I don't know if your experience here is the same as mine.

There are level seven members who have only been here at Agnostic for a month.

David1955 comments on May 7, 2018:

How do people get level 7 in a month? This is a related point but I have wondered how some reach higher levels so quickly, like a few days or weeks only. This has been on my mind and your post triggered it.

There is a question which am sure has been round and round on here.

David1955 comments on May 7, 2018:

This one is tricky. Personally, I would like it to be a site for non believers only. But I accept the site policy as it is. And what do you say about people who call themselves secular religionists and alike. They reject supernatural religions but believe in non supernatural religions, do they say. Between us I think they are confused and what they believe in is philosophy, but try telling them that. There are others like this too who technically are 'believers'. You see, it depends on how this is defined. Personally, I wish religious believers would not join in this site as I don't think it's a site for them. I'm interested to hear the views of others on this.

Hello all, I just joined up.

David1955 comments on May 7, 2018:

Yeah, you won't find me on other social media sites as well, but this little oasis is different. I'm a community not a dating member, but if you are, I wish you good fortune. Welcome.

Now level 7 yea! Actually don't care, but I am the guy that wears atheist t shirts whenever I go to ...

David1955 comments on May 7, 2018:

I'm beginning to think we might have colonized Mars before I get a Tshirt, so maybe I'll get my own Tshirt and put agnostic.com on it. Admin probably wouldn't approve. Not cricket and all that. In Thailand there are places all over where you get your own custom tshirts made. I might succumb to the temptation.

I don't miss church but I do miss the coming together the togetherness of worship.

David1955 comments on May 6, 2018:

It's interesting that you begin by saying you don't miss church, but the rest of the post suggest that you do. I have a term for it. I call it residue religion. I've even said to some professed agnostics (particularly) and other non religious people that I think they are residue believers. It's not a put down, in fact I symphathize. There are certain tell tale comments: I don't miss religion but.... I don't believe any more in the church but... I'm an agnostic about God now but.... I like the Pope and the church but....and so on. It's what religions do: mound people at a formative stage of their life, and for some, not all, expunging that can be a challenge. I'm no one's trained counsellor, but from my life experience, I would suggest thinking about what need there is to fill, such as greater social involvement or engaging with those whose advice you respect. The big cosmic daddy in the sky that loves and forgives us is a powerful potion religions peddle shamelessly, because it resonates with the inner child, no matter how old you are, can be addictive, and they know it. You have to truly slay that religious dragon, and I mean totally dead, before you can move on, knowing you've liberated yourself from it for good.

Who else out thar, is so tired of all the Trump Bashing ?

David1955 comments on May 5, 2018:

I see your point, but you might like to reconsider any view that Trump is no worse than any other president in terms of honestly, integrity, and personal propriety. I'm not American, but I have a little more respect for some past presidents than that.

Just as we cannot scientifically prove the existence of a creator, we cannot prove the non-existence...

David1955 comments on May 5, 2018:

I cannot scientifically prove the existence of fairies and I cannot prove the non existence of fairies. Therefore, that leaves me with one alternative: I must be agnostic about fairies...... Wait a minute, let me rethink that... No, I just don't believe in fairies... And I don't have to prove that fairies do not exist. So, I am an A-fairies-ist. That's better.

Just want to let you know that I am thinking about the growing issue of trolling in groups - that ...

David1955 comments on May 5, 2018:

I'm not sure how to reconcile "following up with member deletions" with "not singling out specific members" in your post. Perhaps I'm misreading it. I would suggest the use of warnings and the use of deft rather than a heavy hand in this kind of thing. I do think that some of this extends from a seeming contradiction in the site mission. On the one hand a mission "supporting people who are good without Gods" but on the other allowing those who are clearly happy with Gods. Just an observation.

I am currently debating a “know it all” Christian who does not understand there is very little ...

David1955 comments on May 4, 2018:

I wish you were right that there are very few differences between agnostics and atheists. That should be the case. It ought to be the case. I always believed it was the case, especially on the bigger picture. But, as I have learnt here, with endless squabbling about which is the 'more nuanced position' and agnostic claims that atheists have to 'prove Gods do not exist' (false) and assertions about atheism being 'dogmatic' and an extreme position like theism, and so on and so forth, I have reluctantly been forced to conclude that the differences are greater than I previously imagined. You even see it in debates about the naming of this site, Agnostic.com. So, I don't care what religionists think; for the most part they lump the non religious all together. The debate however between agnosticism and atheism is, regrettably, quite real and in some runs quite deep.

Do Some Atheists Seem Superior?

David1955 comments on May 3, 2018:

Sometimes, just stating one's position as an atheist and confidently responding to poor arguments against atheism can get you the criticism of being smug or superior. So, the question is based on an assumption of what someone might consider "superior" to mean. So, I have a problem with the premise of the question. Atheists vary with the nature of their personalities. Some have a more direct approach. But a true atheist, in my view, believes doubt is a healthy byproduct of a healthy mind, and everything should always be questioned. I don't think that acting "superior".

Hrmm.

David1955 comments on May 3, 2018:

I've had the view some believers join here maybe as a way to work through their views or even doubts on religion, so unless a person is a believer and objectionable in some way tolerance should be the policy.

What do atheist You Tubers miss? What should they address that they don't?

David1955 comments on May 3, 2018:

It would seem, David, that instead of responding to your post about YouTube and atheism, some have preferred to fall back on their favourite hobby horse pet subjects. But I think the subject of how YouTube can be better used to promote atheism is an interesting one. I don't have a lot of ideas to offer you, but I hope you will continue in your efforts. I like your passion, if I can use that term, or motivation to do something positive.

What do atheist You Tubers miss? What should they address that they don't?

David1955 comments on May 2, 2018:

I'd like to see more energetically plain speaking confronting atheist channels on YouTube. There are a lot of channels but they are too damned polite. I like Kyle Kulinski's Secular Talk, but he mostly talks about politics. I'm not complaining. I agree with him 100% of the time. He just doesn't cover atheism all that much, given the title of the channel. Not suggesting that you do this David, but it's just what I think about YouTube.

Riddle Time 3

David1955 comments on May 2, 2018:

Anyone from Gotham City here to solve this?

CEO Mark Zuckerberg Says Facebook Will Rank News Outlets By Trustworthiness | HuffPost

David1955 comments on May 2, 2018:

He, of course, being so trustworthy himself. You gotta love these 21st century Techno Robber Barrons. Tell you anything and think people are stupid enough to believe it.

Star Trek Discovery fans?

David1955 comments on May 1, 2018:

It's a work in progress, but certainly quality tv. It's a shame to me that between the recent Star Trek movies and the new tv series they have trampled all over the ST mythology, which is what it, as entertainment, is. Borrowing this and taking and changing that. There have been too many cooks at the ST broth, but the damage is now done. The design and technology and story lines of the Discovery series just do not fit the pre-captain Kirk period, but as long as you can suspend disbelief it's ok I guess. I love good quality science fiction and will take whatever I can get. But to me the ST "universe" has been gutted and filleted by unrestrained meddling. Shame.

As an atheist/agnostic, what would you do if the Dark Ages were to come back?

David1955 comments on May 1, 2018:

Fight! Die if need be doing it. I'd be dead but on the right side of history. I'm sure I'd be far from alone.

Trump and the correspondents dinner

David1955 comments on Apr 30, 2018:

Trump treats people and whole nationalities with contempt and prejudice, slanders and mocks people, and has not the slightest respect for anyone but his huge narcissistic ego, and then gets all precious when a comic turns the tables on him and his sycophants. What a friggen hypocrite.

I just made my first atheist YouTube video! It has been much to the credit of the people in this ...

David1955 comments on Apr 30, 2018:

Great. Where do I find it on YouTube? I couldn't.

I have no idea what one might consider me in regards to “religious orientation” Religous people ...

David1955 comments on Apr 30, 2018:

No. Every now and then someone posts something like this here. Essentially it's about the philosophy of language. We can't really be sure of anything because everything is language and so let's go down a rabbit hole talking about. Reality might be 3D projection for all we know. Bully. In the meantime I know what religion is. I see what religion is. I read about about what religion does. I loathe its past and present and hope it doesn't have a future. I'm not interested in BS twaddle that people call spiritual and like because it produces feel good chemicals in the brain. I'm an atheist, because there is no evidence or any God, or for any supernatural phenomena of any kind for that matter. I have no doubts about the world being a better place if we pursue reason, science and social justice. The only doubts in my mind are about the best ways to pursue that goal, and how best to confront and challenge and neutralise mysticism, supernaturalism and magic based thinking, and I'm always interested in hearing views of others about this. I'm not interested in twaddle about how I should prove God doesn't exist, or fairies for any other supernatural invention, and I'm not interested in twaddle about spiritualism. My brain doesn't produce feel good chemicals for crap like that. Never has, never will.

I no longer believe in the institution of marriage.

David1955 comments on Apr 29, 2018:

I tend to agree but people will keep doing it for all kinds of reasons. What's interesting to me, looking at this issue from a trend analysis view, are the various counter trends. I mean, on the other hand you got many who are cool on marriage, or feel unmotivated by it, or even negative about it. Then on the other hand you've got some who make the biggest deal out of it, spend obscene amounts of money getting married, even when they shouldn't or can't really afford it, and it's just excessive in my view. (Had one in the family last year. Grumpy uncle Dave had to attend). Then again you got many in the gay community who are desperate to get married, fight big political and legal battles to do it, and it just means so much to them when they are able publicly to do that. I don't judge negatively any of that. To each their own. What I observe though is the somewhat extremes now that apply to view of marriage. In the past people mostly got married because it was the thing that most people did. Now, it seems they either really don't want to, or they really, really, really, want to.

What is a god and how can you claim to know about it?

David1955 comments on Apr 29, 2018:

No, unless some real evidence emerged, and it hasn't in all human history, visions and mystical knowledge included. Your key phrase there was that atheists don't have to prove that gods do not exist. This cannot be overstated. Any argument that any God is unknowable is also false. Any God worth the name could make itself known.

I have a question why do we get notifications that someone made a post and the deleted it?

David1955 comments on Apr 28, 2018:

It's one of our site's mysteries. Where would our site be without these great mysteries. (God I sound like an old archbishop. ). :-)

Atheist/ Secular Church

David1955 comments on Apr 28, 2018:

Definition of Church: noun noun: church; plural noun: churches 1. a building used for public Christian worship. "the church was largely rebuilt at the end of the 15th century" synonyms: house of God, the Lord's house, house of prayer; kirk "a village church" a particular Christian organization with its own clergy, buildings, and distinctive doctrines. noun: Church "the Church of England" synonyms: denomination, sect, creed; faith "the Methodist Church" the hierarchy of clergy within a particular Christian Church. noun: the Church" For the life of me I cannot understand how the words 'atheist' 'secular' and 'church' can be used in the same phrase.

Nice to meet you all! Im Carla, an atheist and have been for over 20 years, im excited to get to ...

David1955 comments on Apr 28, 2018:

Welcome fellow atheist. The more the merrier.

Which Religious Apologist do you dislike the most (William Lane Craig, Ray Comfort, Eric or Kent ...

David1955 comments on Apr 28, 2018:

William Lane Craig, is as pretentious as he is spurious in his debating. Saw him in a debate once state that there were written accounts of Jesus' life within 5 years of his death. He wasn't challenged. Pure crap. When challenged on his blog or whatever later he replied that what he meant was it is believed that were written accounts of Jesus' life within 5 years of his life but they didn't survive. Yeah, the dog ate his homework too. Dawkins and other atheists repeatedly call him out for mis-stating science and scientists, as well as history and other facts. He a Christian apologist who cares only for making specious arguments to his believer base. The truth and facts hardly matter. Totally my vote.

If you could travel back in time and alter any one historical event, what would it be?

David1955 comments on Apr 28, 2018:

I like the religious historical inventions of some here. But, me, I would go back to March 1967 when Charlie Manson was released from jail, and kill the SOB before he went anywhere else and took so many lives and ruined so many others. No moral qualms about it whatsoever. Like taking out a terrorist before they kill the innocents.

Listening to nostalgic rock music makes me wish I could party down and just forget all ...

David1955 comments on Apr 27, 2018:

I hear you, brother, and concur most mightily. What happened to the world?

So here is a question.

David1955 comments on Apr 27, 2018:

This issue has concerned me from the beginning. The point system encourages posts, so there can be a motivation to post on anything to get points. On the other hand I've noticed that some people just like to post a lot, and some not so much but comment a lot. The posts are the life blood of the site; without a steady stream of subjects posted there wouldn't be much life on the site. So I've decided to relax on this matter. What's important for me is having a good flow of posts and discussions about the serious subjects related to the theme of the site, on religion and atheism. Thankfully, that's still the case. It is curious though that sometimes posters turn up, post a lot then fade away.

Movie Star Crush

David1955 comments on Apr 27, 2018:

Re your comment on Colin Farrell. Women always like bad boys, until they find one. (In answer to your question, for me, Sharon Tate, now and forever. )

I am beginning to see more articles and posts on social media criticising 'The new atheism' and its ...

David1955 comments on Apr 26, 2018:

Yes, but I think the correct tense is the present progressive: we 'are experiencing' a theist backlash against not just us, openly nonreligious people, but against the rise of secularism, the decline of religion as shown in census data, and the decline of Christianity in the West. You see it a lot: endless articles about atheists being bigots, racists, alt-right (there's a laugh) and the usual baby eaters; right wing media proclaiming the evils of atheism, and the end of civilisation, and how believers are being attacked and suppressed. On it goes. All utter fantasy. I predict it will get worse. That's why I hope nonbelievers, whatever our differences and designations, will look for greater groupings and connection and a shared view that we need to stand up to this stuff.

I didn't know about this group.

David1955 comments on Apr 26, 2018:

Think of us as Deep State of Agnostic.com :-)

I've apparently been blocked by someone based solely on my viewing her profile. lol

David1955 comments on Apr 26, 2018:

Yes that's a concern. I often just check a new member's profile, not for any devious purpose other than just knowing where they are from and their position on religion.

Fantastic movie about female Greek scientist Hypatia and colleagues murdered by fanatic Christians ...

David1955 comments on Apr 26, 2018:

The movie is not accurate about her death. It was hideous. She was dragged from a carriage, stripped naked, dragged through the streets, then descended upon by the Christian mob, cut into pieces with shells and other sharp objects, and then burnt to ash. It is recorded in more than one contemporaneous historical account and is accepted as accurate. Any film about her is good to see. But is downplays the Christian role and the manner of her death. Director didn't want to offend the Christos. More Christian love in human history.

Is science & religion compatible?

David1955 comments on Apr 26, 2018:

Only to a cognitively dissonant mind.

Rewrite the "Academic (e.g. science)" category?

David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:

Are you not inferring a typical academic distinction between the physical sciences and social sciences, and drawing a clear line between these recognised disciplines and so-called pseudo- sciences which are not recognised as academic disciplines at all? I would see it this way.

A Handmaids Tale

David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:

I know it's a highly regarded series, but I watched 2 episodes and couldn't watch any more. A dystopian future of religious fanatics in a new dark age of male domination of women is about as horrible as I can imagine, even worse than aliens taking us over, AI ruling the world, or global corporate fascism or other dystopian themes. I think it is because there are so many religious people who still yearn for exactly this kind of theocratic anti-modernist world in their hearts. So it's a pass for me on the series.

Is anyone else sick and tired of all the Superhero movies?

David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:

Yeah, enough already. I don't know about you, but they talk about CGI costing millions and state of the art and all that, but to me they look animated and unreal, almost cartoonish.The best special effects are those you just accept as looking real without thinking, Oh what a great effect. I agree with you about the old effects in the past, yet they didn't have the tech then. I fear these superhero movies will continue because they don't know what else to make and making huge profits is the only goal. When these hero movies finally start to die consistently at the box office, what will they do? I think the feature-length movie as a form is on its downward run. We'll see.

Will we EVER know?

David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:

Watching a debate recently with Bart Erhmann, notable authority on Jesus, who believes a historical figure existed but was not divine, explained that he now considers the whole part of the story about burying 'Jesus' in a tomb could not be true. The reason is the Romans would not have allowed it. Crucifixion served as punishment but also to impose fear on the populace, obviously. Bodies crucified were left to literally rot and decompose and collapse on the cross. The rotting remains were then dragged many days later into pits or burnt. If you attempted to take down a body from a cross the Romans would deal with you and not nicely. The idea of a crucified body being allowed to be taken down and buried in a tomb is pure nonsense and contrary to Roman practice, especially for someone charged with sedition against Rome. So, Erhmann believes the whole tomb part of the Christian story is utter fiction. Personally, I'm a mythicist and don't believe a historical person existed, but a myth or composite of several figures moulded into the Jesus story centuries later. But, even if you do believe in a central non-divine historical figure, like Erhmann, then the whole tomb story as he says cannot have been true. I thought it was, from a historical perspective, a very interesting point.

so what use is the pope any more use than a road sweeper or president ? No man is more above himself

David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:

The pope, despite his pretensions, is a shiver looking for a spine to run up. Nothing more.

WE ARE FAMILY!!! We have become somewhat like a family here wouldn't you agree?

David1955 comments on Apr 25, 2018:

I plan to be the crazy old uncle that you keep away from the cooking sherry. :-)

How would you label me?

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

I would like to suggest very politely that you give serious thought to these terms and then consider what your position is. You sound more like an agnostic to me, with a new age quasi-religious flavour added. It's not uncommon. Not for me, however.

Ugh.

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

Do you like playing around land mines? Is one of your hobbies jumping out of planes without a parachute? I just ask because you seem to enjoy living dangerously. I mean making a statement like that around here. :-) (Psst, by the way, I totally agree with you, but that's just between us, OK? If you quote me I'll deny it) ;-)

The Senate chat room is open for testing today from 6-8pm EST.

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

Not sure it's going to really those of us on different time zones. Oh well.

The magical missing post on blocking reminds me of a site pet peeve that others have expressed in ...

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

Yes, I agree with this too. Of all the things in this site, the "missing post" is the most mysterious. You don't know if it's you or someone else, and there's not any follow up, if you did something wrong, to say, "that's not cricket old boy". So, you're just left wondering...very twilight zone.

What would you say to God if when you died you were faced with him?

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

I would say, " So, which one of the 3,500 or more Gods that people have dreamt up are you, or are you another God entirely, and why didn't you stop them from killing Sharon Tate, not to mention all the other atrocities that happened in human history, many in your name, and what have you got to say for yourself, M-Fer?" I figure if I'm going to be damned, I'm going down swingin'

Sometimes when I think there’s a lull, I try to post questions that promote critical thought, ...

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

I find what people don't comment on is as interesting as what they do comment on and what they say. I follow this closely. Ask questions about favourite movies, what they're having for dinner tonight or what they should wear on a first date, and alike, and an inundation of comments will appear. On more serious subjects the response is more patchy, and often from a smaller group of members. I think there are a lot of Facebook refugees here for whom the more serious issues don't really apply as much. I'm not trying to be judgemental, I'm just drawing my observations of the post and response patterns I see here. Like those of you here I think about how we can shape and focus the momentum here.

Sometimes when I think there’s a lull, I try to post questions that promote critical thought, ...

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

A lull? I haven't seen too many lulls here. I find this site to be quite lull-less, with a low degree of lulling compared to most forums I've seen. Should the propensity of the site lend towards greater lull-ability then I certainly think we should shake the tree to shake the lullers out of their lullingness. Haven't seen it yet though. ;-)

Confrontational?

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2018:

No, but I would like to have a badge that says, "I'm an Atheist. If you're a religious proselytiser don't even think about it girlfriend." :-)

How often, or when do you feel like you need to exercise the old "suspension of disbelief"?

David1955 comments on Apr 23, 2018:

Any pure fantasy and entertainment, yes no problem. Religion propagated through bad history and fraudulent story lines dressed up as 'a true story', like just about all religious fiction for the masses, no, never. Same holds true of cinema/tv purporting to be true stories when in fact I know the history and know they are peddling crap. Nothing suspended there, except the remote control in the off position.

While I think having a space for higher level members could be good, there are more than a few ...

David1955 comments on Apr 23, 2018:

I concur with your point. I'm watching some of these site changes, higher level groups, etc, with a little detachment at this stage, always positive about this site, but wary of the stratifying of the community. It's my cautious nature, despite my left wing politics. :-) Longevity and points can but does not always result from quality contribution, your point I believe. It is good that members, and site management, are reviewing these developments constructively.

So you join a dating site and you need a user name that represents who you feel you are.

David1955 comments on Apr 23, 2018:

I stopped reading this thread half way through, deciding I was too young to read it :-) Maybe some posts should have an R or X rating, so youngsters like me can avert our naive eyes. ;-)

Atheist principles - would atheists be interested in listing basic atheist principles?

David1955 comments on Apr 23, 2018:

Look it depends what we mean by principles. I voted yes because I would like to see the broad nonreligious community focus on things we do agree on rather than the endless debates between atheists and agnostics and all the other groups and identifiers that are used. I know this is a pipe dream, because people in any movement always break up into groups and subgroups and splinters of subgroups, like the scene in monty Python and the people's front of Judea, and that's probably why I've never been a movement joiner. However, I like to think there are principles and values and people who have clearly defined themselves as nonreligious can agree on. As so often happens, however, it gets down to words and definitions. I do think this is an interesting subject to pursue and it has been on my mind too.

This may seem trivial to some but I'm really into this point system.

David1955 comments on Apr 22, 2018:

I have at say that I don't even know what my current points are. I don't think I've ever looked. I have never allowed it to govern my contribution here. It goes up as it does. I contribute as I wish, to varying degrees. I see the value of the points system, and I'm not passing judgement on others, but that's really how it is with me, and I suspect I'm far from alone. Just wanted to say that.

I watched the Barbara Bush ceremonies today.

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

Yay, not to mention that the Bush family business history is questionable to say the least. But hey, it's mainstream media. Manufactured consent, like the MIC (military, industrial corporate) Complex like it.

What are you binge watching this weekend?

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

I watch no TV during the week due to my schedule, so weekend I binge watch all my carefully chosen shows accumulated. Currently, Gotham, Designated Survivor, The Americans, Blindspot, Lost in Space, Agents of Shield, Krypton, Last Man on Earth (only cause I have a crush on January Jones) Arrow, Jessica Jones, and a couple of others. Eclectic range, no?

Can One be religious and Skeptically agnostic?

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

No, this is just word play. Rationalised cognitive dissonance.

Welcome to this new group for experienced members!

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

Should we not refer to each other as 'Honourable Senators"?

Just wanted to let you know that I started the g:246 specifically for high-level discussions about ...

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

Excellent

I'm a newbie

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

It's always good to see more Australians join this site. The levels are explained in the website FAQ so check that out.

I’ve often wondered how the term “'New Atheism”' gained such currency.

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

I think we should rejoice in the growing trend towards non religious belief, as shown by research data on the subject, whatever we call it.

Am I the only atheist that doesn’t smoke pot?

David1955 comments on Apr 21, 2018:

Definitely not. I hope a myth will not arise here that "all" atheists are users of this drug. I doubt there is a higher statistical correlation between atheists and pot use than with any other group.

Here is my first 420 post of the day and an observation... atheists love their weed!!!

David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:

Not this atheist.

I’ve often wondered how the term “'New Atheism”' gained such currency.

David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:

Since the advent of this term and the activists you mention, as I call them respectfully, my view has been that while atheism is not new, obviously, going back to ancient times, what is *new* is the *attitude* of many modern atheists, and I include myself. New atheists, if you like, have a new attitude; a more assertive, open and confident and critical attitude towards religion and religious claims and practices. This is in contrast with the 20th century where the attitude was more along the lines that progression to secular societies and science and reason was kind of inevitable so we'll show respect to religions and religious belief. Islamic fascism, Christian fundamentalism, evangelical politicisation and reactionary attitudes from Abrahamic religions in the latter 20th end early 21st centuries forced many of us to fundamentally review the atheist attitude and approach. Dawkins et.al gave expression to that, thanks to them. So, the atheism isn't new, but the attitude is, and I share it.

Royals: They are born; they urinate; they defecate; they copulate; they flatulate.

David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:

It's all a lot of archaic anachronistic nonsense that should have been relegated to history in the 20th century. At least those of you on the US threw off the British and went forward. Here in Australia we still can't decide to be a Republic with many hanging on to all that Royal nonsense. But actually, there's a more fundamental point and contradiction with the continuation of monarchies. While the notion of equality is espoused, we continue with this idea that some people are born royal and somehow deserving of respect simply by virtue of their 'noble' birth. What!? So we have princesses and princes and so on, reinforcing the idea by birth some are better born, a higher class, deserving of respect for no other reason. Ridiculous. It reinforces the idea of class by birth. Here in Australia I have nothing to do with it. When someone says, "Prince so and so is coming" I say, "what a waste of money". When someone says, "Oh another Royal baby..gush gush.." I say, "well there's another parasite for the tax payer to support... Poor suckers." So I'm real popular with monarchists, as you can imagine.

What is your impression of Unitarian Universalist?

David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:

Well I had look it up. Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion characterized by a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning".Unitarian Universalists assert no creed, but instead are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. As such, their congregations include many atheists, agnostics, and theists within their membership. The roots of Unitarian Universalism lie in liberal Christianity, specifically Unitarianism and Universalism. Unitarian Universalists state that from these traditions comes a deep regard for intellectual freedom and inclusive love. Congregations and members seek inspiration and derive insight from all major world religions. Wikipedia Pseudo religion sounds about right. Another new age invention. Not for me, thanks. I'll do a bit more reading, but well, you know me. I'm 100% atheist, and I hear spiritual and I'm gone.

Hey guys I just hit level 7 where's the money?

David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:

No, you have to pay us. Whatever you can spare. :-)

All in all this app is pretty dope, although it often feels more like social media platform than a ...

David1955 comments on Apr 20, 2018:

The use of the word "dope" here as an adjective threw me. I'd never heard of it used as anything other than a noun or verb. I checked to discover than in colloquial English it means "very good" which I find odd since the word applied to a person is a negative. It seems in language these days, as Cole Porter might say, anything goes. But I am still not sure if the poster meant "dope" here as good or bad. I think he meant bad or poor or unimpressive. Am I right?

Another death question: why is it ok to speak lll of the living, thing not the dead?

David1955 comments on Apr 19, 2018:

It is amazing how all the questionable stuff about the Bush family, business dealings and the rest, are ignored by the mainstream media. All the focus on Mrs Bush being a 'nice lady'. That's why the establishment have mainstream media, for manufactured consent. There're a lot like Illusionists, making sure you look exactly where they want you to.

What do you think of getting Adm.

David1955 comments on Apr 19, 2018:

I join others here in not approving of it. I will only use the like button.

Some site updates 1.

David1955 comments on Apr 19, 2018:

The resource centre sounds interesting. I'm wondering what "donate" here means from a copyright point of view. Could we share texts and titles for the community to read? I have a huge library of ePub and PDFs on the subjects discussed here. Others overtime have shared with me and I would very happy to share on. Also secondly, how is the *Google log on with the mobile app* coming along? If it would be easier I'd be happy to have a separate or new log on with password without the Google email address. Just wondering. Thanks for all. Ps. When are going to get an airing on CNN or NBC? A growing community of nonbelievers. :-)

Do you Google?

David1955 comments on Apr 18, 2018:

I use DuckDuckGo more and more these days. Google is a technology monster, like Facebook, and is an information vacuum cleaner. Unlike FB, which wild horses could not drag me to use, I do use Google, and even have a Google Home. But, I check my account regularly, check all the settings, delete activity, all of it (they still hide and keep some) and I use DuckDuckGo for as many searches as possible.

How often do you update your profile picture? I update mine every month.

David1955 comments on Apr 18, 2018:

Obviously this is more important for those looking to make personal relationships, dating if you will, than it is for those here for community, for the reason that the picture would factor into whether to make contact or not.

Hello everyone, I'm Lisa and consider myself to be both atheist and agnostic.

David1955 comments on Apr 18, 2018:

Welcome too. Can we avoid a phrase like 'faith in atheism' and any notion that it means to know 'the absolute truth' . Atheism does not mean these things of course. Cheers.

We could rename this the Mature Agnostic Group.

David1955 comments on Apr 18, 2018:

I'm sorry mate but while I see some of the points you are making, I'm not sure exactly what your proposal is and why. Rename the group to mature agnostics? Why agnostic? Can you elaborate a bit. Thanks.

Atheism and socialization

David1955 comments on Apr 17, 2018:

No. I just think people who believe in supernatural stories from the Bronze Age are a bit strange. Should it come up I tell them. Let the cards fall when they may. Interestingly, I always keep and eye out for people I meet who say they are nonreligious. I'm always very genuinely friendly and welcoming to such people to let them know we're brother and sister nonbelievers. Also I don't find in the real world nonbelievers are so fussed about whether they are agnostic or atheist or whatever. It seems to be a recurring tribal thing here in this community. It's the only disappointment I have about this community. Not a big one, but one nevertheless.

Who's going to clean up the blood in this group? Admin? :-)

David1955 comments on Apr 17, 2018:

Yes, well I've got a post coming that I'm working on about agnostics endlessly here claiming that atheists have to prove that God does not exist. I am seriously p--sed off about this repeated claim, so keep your powder dry and look out for that one. Bring your mops. Later dudes, as the young people say.

Allow me to introduce @SiteSupport! This lovely volunteer member has admin access and handles ...

David1955 comments on Apr 16, 2018:

A kind of consigliere, eh? :-) Make us an offer we can't refuse. ;-)

Ever had pets that both you and others treated as equals?

David1955 comments on Apr 16, 2018:

It is said that pigs make the best pets. Dogs look up to you. Cats look down on you. But pigs treat you as equals. :-). I dare say.

Anyone watch the James Comey interview?

David1955 comments on Apr 16, 2018:

Comey's got a bit of school principal complex, thinks he's above it all with a touch of a Christian moral superiority complex thrown in. I don't think he's a bad guy, in fact he seems pretty straight, but he's got terrible judgement, first that Hillary thing during the election which was appalling, and now he admits that maybe he took into account that she was going to get elected. Any bloody fool knows a public servant doesn't announce stuff like that during an election. I think he really wanted to remain the head of the FBI, knew that Hillary would replace him, so he wedged her thinking Trump might keep him on. In the end he shot himself in both feet and helped to get the worst sociopath ever elected to the White House. I just read his wife and daughters all voted for Hillary and were surely pissed when she lost. I wonder how many cuddles he has had at home since 2016. He'd better make a fortune on this book, because I think he's too radioactive to employ now.

Has anyone read Richard Carrier's book about the Historicity of Jesus and the weakness of the ...

David1955 comments on Apr 16, 2018:

Yes I have all his books. I like his work a lot. If you haven't done so I recommend that you watch his presentations and debates on YouTube. There are many. He's very entertaining, and makes the subject interesting to watchers.