Fernapple's Profile

“Friendship improves happiness and abates misery, by the doubling of our joy and the dividing of ...

Pralina1 comments on Jan 3, 2023:

Friends are EVERYTHING 🙌♥️🙌♥️🙌♥️

Fernapple replies on Jan 3, 2023:

“Of all the means to insure happiness throughout the whole life, by far the most important is the acquisition of friends.” “It is not so much our friends' help that helps us as the confident knowledge that they will help us.” ― Epicurus ( Who Cicero may himself have been quoting, because he often did. )

"So be aware that the priests, by means of terrorizing threats, will seek to cause you to fall away ...

Mcfluwster comments on Jan 3, 2023:

True. Now how do we bring back reasonable reason to the church?

Fernapple replies on Jan 3, 2023:

You don't, because that is not the purpose for which the church exists. Reason is self justifing, it does not need a church or a god to explain it, you only need a church or a god if you have something unreasonable to promote. And as or if reason, evidence based science, and education advance to explain more to more people, so it is increasingly only those with something untrue/criminal to sell, who need churches, so the chuches grow ever more unreasonable with time.

"If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 12, 2022:

Very true, I do love B. R.. Although it has to be said, that you can be angry on behave of others, if you catch someone teaching that two and two are five, (especially if they don't believe that themselves, and/or are doing it for selfish ends ) then you may be quite justified in feeling anger.

Fernapple replies on Jan 3, 2023:

@johan17 Thank you, I stand corrected.

“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.

FrayedBear comments on Jan 2, 2023:

And several thousand years later Cipolla refined it with "an intelligent person benefits both themself & others with their decisions & actions"

Fernapple replies on Jan 2, 2023:

When they can.

Sometimes I think that well intentioned had work should just be appreciated for its own sake, ...

Julie808 comments on Jan 1, 2023:

We all gotta do what we have in our instincts to do, even if we don't have a reason, it seems!

Fernapple replies on Jan 2, 2023:

Well he does have a reason, after all, winter may be coming, and his new family need to be protected against the cold, while the house is clearly leaking, he can hear it when the taps are running or the bath is emptying , got to look after the home.

Would you prefer that this site be more welcoming to religious people, or screen them out more ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 1, 2023:

Yes please, I love to talk and debate with any opinion. But it also has to be kept in mind that this is a refuge for some people, so that while diversity is good for people like me, it should not be gained at the expense of making an unfriendly site to those who need the community, and the religious...

Fernapple replies on Jan 2, 2023:

@David1955 Indeed I quite agree, that is my possition exactly.

Sometimes I think that well intentioned had work should just be appreciated for its own sake, ...

Redheadedgammy comments on Jan 1, 2023:

He is a good builder with the items that were available!! 🤣

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

Trying his best to be a good family member, and contribute to getting the house ready for winter.

Happy new year.

Julie808 comments on Jan 1, 2023:

Yes, the most pious of the religious people in my circle growing up were also the most unhappy and the most vicious in their treatment of others. I was made to believe that if bad things were happening to me, and God wasn’t watching out for me by assisting me with guardian angels, it was ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

Perfect, if there is wisdom in this world, then I think that you are its enbodiment.

Happy new year.

Cyklone comments on Jan 1, 2023:

So what is the difference betweeen a religion and a cult, other than just the number of members?

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

The difference is, that a religion is big enough and rich enough, to buy a share in the government.

The Five Laws Of Stupidity [youtu.be]

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 31, 2022:

This is the same dumb-ass shit Frayedbear always posts. After looking into Cipolla, it seemed like a joke (contrary to what the narrator of the video thinks). IF he was joking, then people shouldn't be quoting it as if it were a serious theory. If he wasn't joking, then he was a fuckin' idiot and ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

@ChestRockfield All life is absurd, and only fools think that they can rise above the absurdity.

The Five Laws Of Stupidity [youtu.be]

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 31, 2022:

This is the same dumb-ass shit Frayedbear always posts. After looking into Cipolla, it seemed like a joke (contrary to what the narrator of the video thinks). IF he was joking, then people shouldn't be quoting it as if it were a serious theory. If he wasn't joking, then he was a fuckin' idiot and ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

@ChestRockfield You are quite correct on all points.

Happy new year.

Aaron70 comments on Jan 1, 2023:

Happy New Year, from one babbling narcissistic heathen to another! ☺️

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

You don't babble, its only really old farts like me who do that.

Happy new year.

xenoview comments on Jan 1, 2023:

TLDR, all religions are cults.

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

Correct. The only difference between a religion and a cult, is that a religion is rich enough to buy some part of the state.

Happy new year.

Mcfluwster comments on Jan 1, 2023:

Thanks for posting. It helps when anyone gets down to fundamentals. I presume that the step out of religion gave you progress. Where do you look for progress now besides this site?

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

I am always moving, and philosophically an Epicurian, with the love of nature at the heart.

Hello dear agnostic friends.

Fernapple comments on Nov 14, 2022:

Hello and welcome, enjoy the site. And yes there are quite a few like you here.

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

@kafeel007 Fine thank you, and a happy new year to you. Would you like to share how you came to be agnostic or atheist ?

Happy new year.

Scott321 comments on Jan 1, 2023:

Surely they have their downsides, but I had thought Jesuits to be a step above the Catholic rank and file priesthood. George Coyne was a cosmologist Bill Maher interviewed for **Religulous** and another Jesuit came up with the Big Bang.

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

They are great educators yes and have been thinkers, but they also are at the core of the Catholic propaganda machine, and run cult of original guilt and have been involved in some of the church's darker right wing activeties, and managed some of its worst schools.

Happy new year.

DenoPenno comments on Jan 1, 2023:

Thanks for posting. I put up with Christian apologetics which are lies the entire time I studied for the ministry. Dropping away from that, I lived in guilt for a majority of my life. Drinking was wrong but I became alcoholic and would sometimes cry over my lost Christianity. One day I woke up to ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

Sorry to hear about the drink, that is not good. I was raised in a heavy drinking culture, but fortunately it never grabbed a deep hold on me.

Happy new year.

KateOahu comments on Jan 1, 2023:

I think that generally people are as “good” as they are able to be, with the tools they have. Some are lucky to be born with many tools, some are able to acquire tools…and some are denied access to the tools that would allow them greatness. Societal and familial scripting go a long way ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

There is a lot more, but even someone as patient as you would run for cover if I went on at full length.

Happy new year.

Moravian comments on Jan 1, 2023:

An interesting journey. Although made to go to Sunday school and then church the whole religion thing went right over my head and only in later years did I read widely including the bible at length and came to the conclusion that religions are just archaic superstitions that are long overdue to be ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

Yes i try to keep to secular subjects when talking to clergy. A lot of them are good people if misguided, and I see no point in causing hurt when there is no need.

Happy new year.

waitingforgodo comments on Jan 1, 2023:

Thanks, although I didn't have a headache before.

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

You are welcome.

The Five Laws Of Stupidity [youtu.be]

ChestRockfield comments on Dec 31, 2022:

This is the same dumb-ass shit Frayedbear always posts. After looking into Cipolla, it seemed like a joke (contrary to what the narrator of the video thinks). IF he was joking, then people shouldn't be quoting it as if it were a serious theory. If he wasn't joking, then he was a fuckin' idiot and ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 1, 2023:

I don't disagree with you about a lot of the interpretations placed on Cipolla, but I do think that he is hard done by and misunderstood to a degree. Cipolla's "stupid" was not originally intended to be the same thing as the popular meaning of the word, it was originally intended to be a technical term and idea, to be used in modeling human behaviour, when trying to create models in economics. For the understanding of things like the workings of the stock market, and for that use, the idea works well enough.

Sometimes you have to wonder about humans.

TheInterlooper comments on Dec 31, 2022:

I believe political satire shows (the daily show, real time, etc.) have normalized responding to opposing ideas with snark and sarcasm. Unfortunately, most fans of those shows do so without the wit and grace of the comedians who host them.

Fernapple replies on Dec 31, 2022:

Very true.

One less christian nutter in the world!!! Hallelujah!!!! Praise the Lord!!!! Thank you baby ...

nowhereman55 comments on Dec 31, 2022:

What happened? Somebody died?

Fernapple replies on Dec 31, 2022:

Just some old sad pedophile protector and nazi sympathizer, nothing to get excited about, sadly there are a lot more like him.

Would you prefer that this site be a comfortable echo chamber for like-minded individuals only, or ...

JackPedigo comments on Dec 30, 2022:

Depends on what is meant by mutually, 'respectful' debate. I thought we already had that so should we open the door to the Musk type of thinking!? I hope not.

Fernapple replies on Dec 31, 2022:

Examples of blunt refutals without evidence or reasoned argument. Bear in mind that these statements are often made to new members who just joined, and are often trying to test the water and gain confidence. If not bullying then the next nearist thing perhaps ? https://agnostic.com/post/651566/religion-the-root-of-most-evil?aid=2789735 https://agnostic.com/post/647094/the-lies-start-early?aid=2777535 https://agnostic.com/post/646897/the-concept-of-hell-serves-no-purpose-other-than-to-instill-fear-and-control-others?aid=2777081 https://agnostic.com/post/646913/immortality-sociopaths?aid=2777063 And there are dozens more. And Ad homien. https://agnostic.com/discussion/666471/the-happiest-nations-on-earth-are-strongly-secular?aid=2826636

The early history of something which is never dug up by archaeologists, ice, and be amazed by just ...

waitingforgodo comments on Dec 30, 2022:

I say, "Waiter, there's sand, clay, egg-white , ash and goat-hair in my ice cube". "Certainly sir", the waiter foamed frigidly, "I shall add a slice of lime". The IceCube Neutrino Observatory (or simply IceCube) is a neutrino observatory constructed at the Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 31, 2022:

Wonderful.

And it is also error to argue that, in the absence of the restraint that comes when evil men fear ...

waitingforgodo comments on Dec 30, 2022:

Did he construct a rectangular pizza as testament to his love of epicurean treats, or some such? A wise man would read up on this.

Fernapple replies on Dec 31, 2022:

You maybe know, but for those who don't, he actually did something nearly as strange. He had a large wall, round a city square, inscribed with an Epicurian text, including sections on physics and ethics. So that everyone could read the teachings of Epicurus, which were mainly agnostic, even if they could not afford books or a visit to a philosophical school.

Sometimes you have to wonder about humans.

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 30, 2022:

So i should exert myself to charm assholes into changing their minds??? which Isn't going to happen, not them changing their mind or me using feminine wiles on them.........

Fernapple replies on Dec 30, 2022:

Only if you want them to change their minds, if you don't want them to change, be as charming or not as you like. My point was about as said, only people who obviously want people to change, and there seem to be a lot of people banging their heads against the wall and asking. Why does nobody buy my ideas, no mater how hard I shout, about how stupid and immoral they are ?

And it is also error to argue that, in the absence of the restraint that comes when evil men fear ...

zeuser comments on Dec 30, 2022:

He ain't wrong.

Fernapple replies on Dec 30, 2022:

And just think about the age when that was written !

Sometimes you have to wonder about humans.

hankster comments on Dec 30, 2022:

same reasons non-believers do.

Fernapple replies on Dec 30, 2022:

@hankster Yes.

Sometimes you have to wonder about humans.

hankster comments on Dec 30, 2022:

same reasons non-believers do.

Fernapple replies on Dec 30, 2022:

Oh, every shade of opinion has some who do it yes. My remarks were quite as generalized as I could make them, without being long winded, so I hoped that, " religion, social and political " would be taken to include non-believers.

The early history of something which is never dug up by archaeologists, ice, and be amazed by just ...

Oldman51 comments on Dec 30, 2022:

How much of this society would be left in 1 thousand years and what would people think digging it up in the future.

Fernapple replies on Dec 30, 2022:

I often thought that if they dig up one percent of our civilizations sites, which would be a good percentage. Then it is unlikely that they would hit on a rocket launch pad, since there are only three or four at most, so they would conclude that we never went into space.

Sometimes you have to wonder about humans.

vocaloldfart comments on Dec 30, 2022:

The first tenet of advertising is get yourself noticed. You are more likely to remember the message of someone obnoxious than someone who spreads feel good stories. the feel good message soon fades in the memory once we have processed it especially if it is not relevant to us at the time. Get the ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 30, 2022:

Yes that is true, but you are unlikely to accept a message which is presented in nasty form, rather to get noticed you have to presents the lack of your message in nasty form, and your side as a pleasant alternative. If I wish to sell a car, I first tell you a story about how bad the other make of car is, and how their after sales service let someone down very unjustly, bad enough to make you mad. I then tell you how good our after sales are, and what kind thoughtful methods we use. Not the other way round.

Sometimes you have to wonder about humans.

ASTRALMAX comments on Dec 30, 2022:

The simple answer is that social media presents an easy outlet for many people to vent their general discontent with their life.

Fernapple replies on Dec 30, 2022:

True. But should it not be easy you would think, to make a difference between venting and promoting, yet so many people seem not to be able to do that.

Would you prefer that this site be a comfortable echo chamber for like-minded individuals only, or ...

TheInterlooper comments on Dec 29, 2022:

https://agnostic.com/discussion/700620/whats-the-difference-between-a-man-made-god-and-a-man-made-government I think I know where @anglophone and @Betty stand on this issue.

Fernapple replies on Dec 29, 2022:

The difference is that. If you chose not to believe in a religion, it will go away, if you chose not to believe in government, it will still take your taxes.

Lies travel faster than the truth.

Robecology comments on Dec 27, 2022:

But...but...

Fernapple replies on Dec 28, 2022:

@LenHazell53 Thank you, great trivia.

Why Do These Deadly Insects Look Like Flowers? - YouTube

Paul4747 comments on Dec 27, 2022:

Because of evolution. But try to explain that to the ID people.

Fernapple replies on Dec 28, 2022:

@Paul4747 Sorry, I don't remember now.

Why Do These Deadly Insects Look Like Flowers? - YouTube

Paul4747 comments on Dec 27, 2022:

Because of evolution. But try to explain that to the ID people.

Fernapple replies on Dec 28, 2022:

Sadly I have even heard a creationist ask. "Why are polar bear white, when nothing eats them ?" As though he had come up with a clever challenge to evolution theory.

Lies travel faster than the truth.

Robecology comments on Dec 27, 2022:

But...but...

Fernapple replies on Dec 28, 2022:

Two and three may be Ok, but I think that one is perhaps itself fake news, I am pretty sure that I heard the term, "fake news" long before Trump ran.

I don't get the concept of prayer.

skado comments on Dec 26, 2022:

Literalism ruins everything. I think it’s better understood as a practice of mindfulness, like meditation. It’s a tool for managing personal psychology, not a hotline to emergency services.

Fernapple replies on Dec 27, 2022:

@skado I do remember nearly all of what you have posted on here, and I would never say that you are an apologist for literal belief in god. But to be an apologist for belief in theist religion, with all its evils and limitations, as if it were itself a god, and to be blind to the many better ways of achieving all of its doubtful benefits, which are available today, because of that. Without even the poor excuse of a literal belief in the god superstition, that is indeed fundamentalism of the worst sort.

I don't get the concept of prayer.

skado comments on Dec 26, 2022:

Literalism ruins everything. I think it’s better understood as a practice of mindfulness, like meditation. It’s a tool for managing personal psychology, not a hotline to emergency services.

Fernapple replies on Dec 27, 2022:

@skado The sickle cell analogy is indeed a true one. Especially since it should be remembered, that we now live in an age when there are better ways to combat malaria available, and whatever benefits sickle cell anaemia may have had in the past, it is now today a wholly harmful disease, which will hopefully be eradicated soon. Theist religion, of the sort most people here reject, has not been around for sixty thousand years. In fact it is quite a new thing in religion, and goes back perhaps twenty thousand years or so plus, in a very few cultures if that. In many western cultures perhaps ten thousand, about the same length of time as piracy in fact. I now long to hear your explainations for the continuation of piracy, and it benefits to humanity.

I don't get the concept of prayer.

mischl comments on Dec 26, 2022:

Trying to "make sense" of religion is an exercise in futility. It's all make-believe. However, I've learned that for some people, praying has certain benefits. It's a sorta kinda cousin to meditation, which can indeed have a calming effect on the human mind. I have told more than a few people, yeah,...

Fernapple replies on Dec 26, 2022:

( Other meditation substitutes are available. )

What it should be is the first item which would lead to Atheism but what it is in fact is the second...

skado comments on Dec 23, 2022:

Nobody owns or defines Christianity all by themselves - not even a majority of Christians. There are many practicing Christians who fit the first statement. Apparently it did not lead to atheism for the Rev. who posted it.

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2022:

If he is an honest man, it will in time, but if he is able to live with high levels of cognitive dissonance, in other words if he can not do the first, then it wont.

i am writing this post primarily because its cold, I'm tired of you tube, it's cold, and I've built ...

Beowulfsfriend comments on Dec 23, 2022:

Unless you are planning on doing repairs, I vote leave it. Some squirrel will find it. Studies have shown that squirrels find about 90% of the nuts they hide.

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2022:

@MsKathleen Beowulfsfriend is quite correct, indeed there is some debatable evidence that squirrel's brains grow larger in the Autumn to enable better memories. If so they may be one of the few mammals able to grow brain issue in later life.

I have long thought that one of the reasons for Christianity's popularity, was the ironic fact that ...

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 23, 2022:

i have to say this reminded me far too much of Orthodox Jew adult men spending their lives studying the Torah while their wives do Everything else.

Fernapple replies on Dec 23, 2022:

Oh yes. Theology = male idleness made into a religion.

I have always thought that nature had health benefits, whether you "forest bathe" or like to do ...

ChrisAine comments on Dec 23, 2022:

I always had a curiosity about the folk I see come with mega cameras just to watch birds. Since I grew up seeing birds fly around I've never really thought of it as a hobby but now I know otherwise. I think it's a another fulfilling hobby I want to start thanks to this birdwatching for starters ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 23, 2022:

The more things in the world you can enjoy, the more you are likely to be happy, and the less you need to buy happiness from others.

That’s a boat load of cookies!!!🥹

Fernapple comments on Dec 22, 2022:

I recommend, a three speed hand drill with a three jaw chuck, and a one tenth inch clean cut flange ended wood bit, with the dill set to the lowest speed and torque settings. Use a piece of hardwood not softwood as a base when making the cut. This usually results in a nice neat clean hole in the...

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2022:

@Buck Oh they do, but they are recognized as the uniform of the "Fat" army, and only the truly desparate sign up.

Humans continue to evolve: Study tracks the emergence of 155 new genes: [phys.org]

puff comments on Dec 20, 2022:

Is evolution in genes just genes reacting to changes in the environment?

Fernapple replies on Dec 21, 2022:

@Robecology Nothing for our personal future, but it is all our past and creator. But then it could be said that we do affect the future even by not choosing to reproduce.

Humans continue to evolve: Study tracks the emergence of 155 new genes: [phys.org]

puff comments on Dec 20, 2022:

Is evolution in genes just genes reacting to changes in the environment?

Fernapple replies on Dec 21, 2022:

@puff Yes, most of them are neutral and have no effects that have any survival cosequences. It is the neutral and least important genes which change fastest, while due to the effects of natural sellection, it is the really important genes that are the most conservative. Because they are the ones where changes are most likely to prove fatal. So that the really core genes you carry, are often virtually the same as those used by bacteria, while the newer genes for the most part change rapidly, and the junk DNA, which does nothing, changes at the background mutation rate.

Humans continue to evolve: Study tracks the emergence of 155 new genes: [phys.org]

puff comments on Dec 20, 2022:

Is evolution in genes just genes reacting to changes in the environment?

Fernapple replies on Dec 21, 2022:

No, its just new mutations failing to die due to pressures from both the physical and human environment.

I love it🥰🥰🥰

Fernapple comments on Dec 20, 2022:

You don't mean that some of your local governments are at last, giving up on their horrible addiction to grass shaving ?!!! Welcome to the twenty first century USA. ( Well there are a few other things, but lets not be negative. )

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2022:

@Killtheskyfairy Yes, the rich loved their parks, but the grazed grass of a park actually supports a lot of wildlife especially flowers, since grazing is natural and animals graze and dung sellectively. It was only when the middle classes, who did not have enough ground for grazing or hay making started to copy the fashion, and used machines which blindly chopped everything, that lawns became a problem.

Grins and giggles for the old folks

RichCC comments on Dec 20, 2022:

I saw someone here on Agnostic brag about remembering why she'd gone into a room. She admitted it was the restroom, but still.🙂

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2022:

The sign on the door helps.

Whats the difference between a man made God and a man made government?

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2022:

When nobody claims that government is infallible, and you can change it if you don't think it is good enough, then those are two big differences, and it is usually called democracy. While claiming that the government is infallible is called totalitarian, and then there are no big differences.

Fernapple replies on Dec 19, 2022:

@Sailer No, sorry I did say that all government came at a price, and certainly tyrannies are not a thing I would want anyone to believe in. But if you can not respect and support your government, ( and try to help improve and democratize it, then it will not die. The only thing that will die, is the democratic part of it, however small, and you will just be left with the worst bits of all. And like it or not, it was the democratic goverment which in part helped make America great, it is sad that people who claim to value that greatness can not understand and value the main thing which made it so and helped to keep it so. While if you can not tell the difference between a tyranny, and governments which are at least to some degree democratic, then you are a lost cause, and I am wasting my time. Bye.

I just came across this, it shows a church near where I live, which is now disused due to falling ...

Ryo1 comments on Dec 17, 2022:

Nowadays in the UK, hundreds of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and the Bible is seen as an anthology by many Christians. So churches function as community centres rather than places for worship. It's good that the church near you found its new purpose. I also find churches are ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 19, 2022:

@Ryo1 Yes there are many good things that can come from religion. But that only means that religion is taking up the slack left by a lack of mental health care, and why should not all the money, time and effort, spent on religion go to, for example the NHS ? Yes you can say that there are some things that only a imaginary god can do, but god and religion are not equivalent, indeed they are almost certainly opposite if god exists. The benefit many get from it is however why I never preach atheism, to anyone who believes, let those who truely want god enjoy the benefits they get. I am content that my agnostic atheism is my own private matter, and the only people who I engage with about it, are people who have doubts already, such as some on this site. I have never tried to undermine someones faith, not even an annoying door knocking J. W..

Whats the difference between a man made God and a man made government?

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2022:

When nobody claims that government is infallible, and you can change it if you don't think it is good enough, then those are two big differences, and it is usually called democracy. While claiming that the government is infallible is called totalitarian, and then there are no big differences.

Fernapple replies on Dec 19, 2022:

@Sailer There are a vast number of mental constructs, which we chose to believe, often collectively as a social contract, because we get benefits from that belief, such as maths, money, reading and writing, maps and plans, contracts and marriage etc.. All that atheism means is the rejection of the one mental construct called a theistic god, like the word says a-theism, and sometimes religion as well. Because people who chose not to believe in it, think that it does more harm than good and that it is one mental construct that you can do better without, and easily do without. While mental constructs such as maths, I see as wholly beneficial, and I therefore chose to believe that there is such a thing as circle of three hundred and sixty degrees. Democratic government on the other hand, does a lot of harm and comes at great cost, but it also brings many benefits. I would not think that in the world today, it would be good to try living without money or roads organized nationally, or to have policing run by unaccountable for profit gangsters. There are countries in the world where the governments and policing are run by unaccountable gangsters, and it is truly horrible. So on balance I think that, faith in democratic government, however imaginary it may be, and trying your best to keep it as democratic as possible, is the best option despite the cost. Which is doubly why I reject religion. Because since government does come, whatever the benefits, at great cost, I see no reason to wilfully accept the cost of a second government, which is what religion is. Especially so as it tends to be run by people who have rejected the ideas of democracy and accountability, and who chose it rather than government often exactly because of that lack of accounting. You say that you can see no difference between government and religion, and in many ways you are quite correct, therefore why would I chose wilfully to accept double the problems. And secondly, while I can chose easily not to accept religion, as the populations of many countries like Japan and Denmark already largely have, and there is little cost. If I reject democratic government, then I end up with the none democratic sort, or in other words the gangsters step in to fill the void. And religion really is a form of gangsterism based government. Under democracy, the will of the people can be very unjust, ill informed and unkind to minorities, but at least it makes an attempt to be accountable to most of the people. The rule of gangsters however is accountable to nobody, however kind it may try to appear at the lower level. You know the scene, the gangsters employee walks into the shop, and says. " Really nice little business you have got here, would be a shame if something nasty happened to it. And I ...

A little Christmas cheer for your funny bone.

Organist1 comments on Dec 18, 2022:

That explains his middle name as well!

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

VERY GOOD.

An interesting opinion piece, clearly identified as an opinion piece by RT.

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

Which ever side wins, even if one side does win and the conflict does not last forever, as some do. Some large section of the civil population will suffer ethnic cleansing and worse. That is a given, it can not be avoided either way. But if it goes on forever, then both sides will suffer endlessly. ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@puff Yes all of that is true.

Religious beliefs

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

No. Because it almost inevitably has the opposite effect. If people have real knowledge, and the willingness to help humanity, then they will try to share that knowledge, by reasoning, free debate and education etc. and as a last resort they may use, things like, tradition and superstition as ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@racocn8 Yes I agree it does. I used sibling, because I have used the term marriage in this context often before, and was getting bored with it. Though I am not sure that religion directly fosters anything, religion is not itself creative, it is merely a tool or weapon in the hands of those who wish to use it to promote other things, and I would say that it is most useful to people who are evil of intent. I would rather say that, like an instrument of torture, it has no good uses, but it does not itself create pain and suffering, if sat in a museum it does nothing, it is people who drive it.

I just came across this, it shows a church near where I live, which is now disused due to falling ...

Ryo1 comments on Dec 17, 2022:

Nowadays in the UK, hundreds of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and the Bible is seen as an anthology by many Christians. So churches function as community centres rather than places for worship. It's good that the church near you found its new purpose. I also find churches are ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Ryo1 We are all sometimes dishonest. But we would be unwise to pick a belief system for our guidence, which actively drives us towards greater dishonesty. If you are going to chose a belief system, then it is surely best to chose one which matches your ability, though since a perfect match is not in practice possible, at least one which asks better of you, even though you may fall short. But to pick one which actually demands that you stoop to greater dishonesty than you otherwise would, and then to promote that to others as self improvement, is surely foolish.

Religious beliefs

racocn8 comments on Dec 18, 2022:

The current embrace of climate change denialism by Christianity endangers Humanity with extinction. What religious belief (actually tied to the religion's dogma) has a positive impact (and not contradicted elsewhere in dogma)? (Quaint universal epigrams don't count). All religions require ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

Good point. You may like to read my below comment, which is similar but a bit longer, sorry.

Whats the difference between a man made God and a man made government?

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2022:

When nobody claims that government is infallible, and you can change it if you don't think it is good enough, then those are two big differences, and it is usually called democracy. While claiming that the government is infallible is called totalitarian, and then there are no big differences.

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Sailer Government is not an illusion, goverment is a mental construct which we agree to as part of our social contract. And mental constructs are quite real, even though they are imaginary, because a thing does not have a material existence, that does not mean that it is unreal. Maths is a mental construct, yet it is quite real. If your car has four wheels and the garage told you that they have changed one of the bald tyres, but finding that you needed another changing they changed that as well. And that since they hold that one plus one equals six, they are going to charge you for six tyres, you would not be very happy. But then, since money is even more of an illusion than maths or government, then you would be wrong to be unhappy and would not have lost anything anyway.

If you created the higher power "government " which is imaginary and followed its orders OR You ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2022:

God is a word without fixed meaning, it can mean anything you want it to. Therefore there would be no difference between a higher power government and a god, they are the same thing. Just as if you overvalue and over respect them, you can make the equivalent of a god, and therefore a true god, out ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Sailer Oh I can see that government is fake OK. I long ago followed Stalin's reasoning, " The only part of the human condition you can not fake, is power. " Because, as he went on to explain, it is all fake to start with, so any attempt to give someone fake power, will always result in them getting real power. You seem to have made the common assumption that because people reject theist belief, that means they have to reject all belief, but we all have to believe in many things, rejecting one belief does not mean that you are inconsitstent in not rejecting them all. Rejecting the idea of fairies at the bottom of the garden, does not mean that I have to reject belief that my wife is faithful. You may chose not to believe in government, and I may even join you, all you have to do is come up with a better alternative. All laws are indeed fake and depend completely on people accepting them on belief, but there are many benefits to that. In my country we drive our cars on the left hand side of the road, but there is no real reason for that, since in France only twenty miles away , they drive on the right. So there is no material reason to pick one side or the other, but by making a social contract with all the other drivers in the country, we are all able to drive where we want to go, quick and in moderately safely, with few accidents. If it was not for that quite irrational belief, we would all have to drive at three miles per hour, or meet with horrible injuries and death twenty times a day. But as I pointed out at the begining of this post, if I want to enjoy the benefits of the social contracts we call laws, then I would far rather that the formulation and occassional adjusting of those quite imaginary beliefs called laws, was in the hands of live humans who are to some degree accountable, rather than unellected and self appointed interpreters of badly garbled old books. If you really want to understand this issue you would be well placed to google solon and his political thought.

An interesting opinion piece, clearly identified as an opinion piece by RT.

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

Which ever side wins, even if one side does win and the conflict does not last forever, as some do. Some large section of the civil population will suffer ethnic cleansing and worse. That is a given, it can not be avoided either way. But if it goes on forever, then both sides will suffer endlessly. ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@puff Russia was the agresssor. And Russia are already doing a lot of vicious ethnic cleansing. And If you follow it carefully even Russian troops taken prisoner are asking the Ukrainians for political asylum, rather than be returned home.

Tell me with whom you share a coffee and I will tell you who you are.

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

My friends, especially the ones from my village.

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@duchessa1 They come from my village. One of them is my best friend for whom I am a part time carer. ( She's ninety. ) Some are customers, who I like because they are specially interested in my plants. ( I run a plant nursery.) Some are my tenants,, the ones who are cheerful and make me smile. Some are a small old persons social group, which rents one of my buildings for social activeties like cards and dominos.

Tell me with whom you share a coffee and I will tell you who you are.

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

My friends, especially the ones from my village.

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@duchessa1 No simple answer, they are all friends for different reasons.

“If you are not willing to risk the unusual, then you’ll have to settle for the ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

Yes, but the ordinary can be profound.

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Marionville It can apply to human culture though as well, since for example, as I am sure you will remember, archeology, is said to have only grown up and come of age, when they stopped being treasure hunters and became stat. collectors.

An interesting opinion piece, clearly identified as an opinion piece by RT.

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

Which ever side wins, even if one side does win and the conflict does not last forever, as some do. Some large section of the civil population will suffer ethnic cleansing and worse. That is a given, it can not be avoided either way. But if it goes on forever, then both sides will suffer endlessly. ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Castlepaloma You are not always given that choice.

“If you are not willing to risk the unusual, then you’ll have to settle for the ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2022:

Yes, but the ordinary can be profound.

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Marionville Is not a Dandelion as beautiful as an orchid. When we dismiss the ordinary, we fail of appreciation, and fall into the trap of only valuing the novel. Yet the dandelion is more common than the orchid, because it is strong and well adapted, and if we understand those strengths then we know something profound. The orchid is no less strong and well adapted, but just for a different role of course, but its strengths are less central.

Whats the difference between a man made God and a man made government?

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2022:

When nobody claims that government is infallible, and you can change it if you don't think it is good enough, then those are two big differences, and it is usually called democracy. While claiming that the government is infallible is called totalitarian, and then there are no big differences.

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Sailer Yes but the problem with comparing government to religion is that, while I accept that governments are a burden to the population, it would be hard to do away with government and achieve total anarchy. Since not only does government give us a few important services, but even more importantly, without an existing government there would be nothing to stop anyone , probably people with criminal intent, from forming a new government entirely for their own benefit and profit, without even attempting to provide any token benefit to the wider population to justify their cost. While religion is at least something which you are free to join or not. Therefore given that you are forced to take on one burden, why take on a second.

If you created the higher power "government " which is imaginary and followed its orders OR You ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2022:

God is a word without fixed meaning, it can mean anything you want it to. Therefore there would be no difference between a higher power government and a god, they are the same thing. Just as if you overvalue and over respect them, you can make the equivalent of a god, and therefore a true god, out ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2022:

@Sailer Yes but the problem with comparing government to religion is that, while I accept that governments are a burden to the population, it would be hard to do away with government and achieve total anarchy. Since not only does government give us a few important services, but even more importantly, without an existing government there would be nothing to stop anyone , probably people with criminal intent, from forming a new government entirely for their own benefit and profit, without even attempting to provide any token benefit to the wider population to justify their cost. While religion is at least something which you are free to join or not. Therefore given that you are forced to take on one burden, why take on a second.

Whats the difference between a man made God and a man made government?

skado comments on Dec 17, 2022:

In a theocracy, not much difference. In a democracy, adherence to God’s laws is considered voluntary, whereas adherence to government’s laws is imposed.