A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 26, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay There is some truth in that, but I do accept that culture exists, as a special emergent property, ( In the Emergence Theory meaning. ) still part of nature, but born only when you apply reason and the extra levels of knowledge and understanding gained from communication by abstract language and art, to the understanding of the universe, including and especially, human nature. But since the remaining entirety of that universe and humans is nature, then culture is only an expression of our attempts to understand that nature, and without nature there is simply no reason to develop culture. Since without hard wired needs there is no need for anything, without hunger and taste, no need to eat and so no cuisine or hospitality; without pain, no need to avoid harm, and so no medicine or justice systems; without empathy no need to socialize, without curiosity no need to learn. Nothing comes from nothing, even by way of reason and language. Indeed without our hard wiring, of pains and pleasures, there would not only be no need for culture, but no need for anything, (Or any possible meaning to life. ) and the most logical thing to do would be for us all, to sit down and starve to death, which we easily could do, since we then would feel no hunger. Which at least then would mean that we could leave the world perhaps, to some other creatures who could perhaps find meaning in life. Fortunately perhaps though we are not like that. ( Though maybe it would be better for the planet if we were. ) As to the whole nature ver. nurture debate, I would not even care to take a part in that, since I think that the whole thing is in complete error on both sides, and a vast over simplification, to the point of being inane, and that no truth or use can be found in it. Like all vast over simplifications it is either driven by people who wish to mislead others and are therefore setting up false premises to avoid addressing real issues. Which they do in this case, by dividing the world up into two crude and chunks, or as often happens it is motivated by laziness, and a cowardly wish for easy answers, which drives a lot of poor thinking. Probably both, since the two are often mutually reinforcing. (Laziness being another piece of hard wiring by evolution, which deeply affects the way culture is designed. )

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 25, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay I can't believe you thought through. "If you are stating that nature can't do it and nurture can't either, then you are stating that neither can do it, not that you need both." So I will spare you the embarrassment of answering that.

Have you seen the movie "Operation Mincemeat" on Netflix? An extrordinary true story.

Fernapple comments on Sep 25, 2022:

You may also love this documentary, which tell the true story, but with a great sense of fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh2e6sE6YXA

Fernapple replies on Sep 25, 2022:

@LiterateHiker I loved the ladies tell their stories first hand, and the rich collection of eccentrics.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 25, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Not at all, because the trolley problem only exists because of nature. If you resort to pure reason then the trolley problem is a simple maths problem, solved by an equation, if your science tells you that the world is underpopulated then you pull the leaver, if overpopulated you don't. The only thing which make it a real problem, are the fact that things like guilt and intention complicate it, and they only exist as hard wired or even chemical reactions in human brains, which are planted there by evolution by natural selection. Things like guilt, intention and the illusion of free will, are not part of reality, but only illusions built into wiring of our brains, without those we do not even have any need for a morality, any more than a clock needs a morality to make it tell the time.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 25, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yes nature can not tell us what is right and wrong, but my point is nurture can't either, you need both.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 24, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yes, of course it is society and human culture which tells us if monarchy or democracy is better for society, but that does not mean that democracy, monarch and society as a whole, are not designed by us to serve hard wired needs, nor does it prove it wrong, that if we had different hard wired needs we would have a different society.

Posting to aid in the debate over what is socialist exactly?

ChestRockfield comments on Sep 23, 2022:

USA 1. ✅️ 2. ✅️ 3. ✅️ 4. ✅️ 5. ✅️ 6. 7. ✅️ 8. ✅️ 9. ✅️ 10. ✅️ 11. ? 12. ✅️ 13. ✅️ 14. ?

Fernapple replies on Sep 24, 2022:

@puff 14. if people, especially from certain areas and ethnic groups, have to line for hours in the sun inorder to cast their votes.

'Once you've introduced a socialist program, like a national health service, you are on the path to ...

Fernapple comments on Sep 23, 2022:

Australia, New Zealand ?

Fernapple replies on Sep 23, 2022:

@Ryo1 Well it is a fun game, and I love the snap sound that nits make when you pick them.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 23, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Which answers your own question you raised in the comment above. fernapple "Why invent human culture at all, all of it not just the moral, if we do not have inherent hard wired motivations that require fulfillment ?" TheMiddleWay "I don't know how to answer this. All I know is that we humans are prone to anthropomorphizing everything around us, in it's ultimate form leading to god's. Hence when we start assigning consciousness to rocks and morality to animals, I feel that that consciousness or morality is not inherent to those objects but just a projection of how we understand the world on two other things." In that, at the bottom of human culture are evolved emotions and instincts, which create needs that have to be fulfilled, determine to a large extent the design of culture, and without which there would be no need for any human culture at all. Culture, including morallity, being an emergent thing which stems from the interactions of evolved hard wired emotions and instincts, reason and communication, since we only reason and commmunicate because our animal drives compel us. They are the engine of the cultural vehicle, just as language is the wheels, art the transmission and reason the steering. And as I said at the beginning it is complex. Soryy if I stuck to this a while, but it matters to me. Now, if you like, we can move on to the question of anthropomophic interpretations of animal behavior, which seems to interest you more.

'Once you've introduced a socialist program, like a national health service, you are on the path to ...

Fernapple comments on Sep 23, 2022:

Australia, New Zealand ?

Fernapple replies on Sep 23, 2022:

@puff Yes that too.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 23, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Good, and what benefit does society, and/or its members, hope to get from developing and enforcing codified rules, since it must be a practice with some costs involved so there should be a benefit, is it an increase in pleasure and happiness, a decrease in pain and fear, or both ?

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 22, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Please try to confirm, we are getting near the end now.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 22, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yes, but this is not where I am going with this, or what I am intersted in. All I wanted to know, which you seem to have confirmed since you have made two refences to it, was. Whether you believe that there is such a thing as society, and if you thought that codified rules were to its benefit ?

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 22, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yes I agree, but can we agree that the only other thing besides the obvious value of having codified rules, that they are available for reference, ( Which I should have included though I thought we had already agreed that. ) is that they add the idea of a larger society which is invested in those rules. And that to be truly moral an act has to be in the interests of that society alone, and of, at best slight, indirect benefit to the actor. You yourself just used the idea of society shunning. ( Though I do have to say that it is well documented that many social animals, including monkeys do shun group members who behave too selfishly, but that is beside the point. )

Welcome to my world folks!!! 🤠

Fernapple comments on Sep 22, 2022:

You are welcome to it.

Fernapple replies on Sep 22, 2022:

@Buck You are welcome to them as well. Actually though we have bred a few more since then, and I was thinking, since you still have quite a lot of space............

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 22, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay So in that case it would follow, that the main if not the only thing added to human behaviour by the codified cultural morality, is the idea of true total altruism. That we should make some investments and effort, without any expectation of at least direct reward for ourselves or indirectly for our immediate relatives and social group ?

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 21, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay I have not got to the convoluted bit yet. Do you agree that the ape in the example is not being moral, but is just making an investment, spending some of its present pleasure and happiness in the hopes of reaping greater rewards in the future ?

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 21, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay To your first I have to take a more convoluted route, and I may not be able to get back to you with the final part for twenty four hours, since I shall be working, I hope you will stick with it because you should find it interesting. But to begin. Let us suppose that a male ape, ( not human, ) shares his food with a female. ( Which does happen and is well documented.) I would say, that you would state that case that it is not an example of moral behaviour since: firstly, most of, (I say most of, note the rough rule of thumb again. ) the females he is in contact with, are likely to be relatives with the same genes, two, he may be trying to win social credits in the group in the hope he will get fed when he is in hunger, and three, being kind to a female may make her more inclined to choose him for invited mating. So that you could say that he would have very good selfish reasons, whether instinctive or rational, for what he does, and that evolution would favour such actions therefore. And that you would not call such actions therefore moral ?

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 21, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Taking your second first. No, nature is never exact, all that nature does is to provide flexible rule of thumb guidelines, for everything. If that was not so, then all humans would eat the same diet, and would never have left Africa, because we would not have found the same food plants and animals on the other continents. Evolution by natural selection rarely has time before the environment changes to adapt species to just single forms of food, and where it does, those species live precariously on the edge of extinction, the food species goes extinct and so does the animal the more perfectly they are adapted the more likely it will happen. Likewise it does not provide exact methods for things like childcare, or even child recognition. Just rules of thumb which work most of the time. Such as if it looks like a baby, and especially if I know it personally, then instinct says feed and care for it, because there is a high possibility that it is the infant of a close relative with the same genes. Which is why the system often breaks down and you get animals which accidentally adopt strange babies to which they are not related, and why brood parasites are able to get away with their trickery. But it would be unwise to think that the guidelines are not there, or of importance, since if we did not enjoy caring for children in the past, long before cultural learning gave us a logical, though a very questionable logical, reason to do so. Then we would have gone extinct long before we developed culture.

I don't see why Lauren Bobert's such a big problem in America.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Sep 19, 2022:

Ya know, I could pass such a test with higher scores than most Xtians.

Fernapple replies on Sep 21, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 No you did not offend at all, in fact I find your habit of sometimes missing the irony quite charming.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 21, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay It is also a completely false argument since human culture is almost infinitely flexible, not all human cultures regard rape, ( To use your not very good if cherry picked example.) as immoral, many celebrated it. The only reason why some cultures, such as our post Christian one, could come to the conclusion that rape is immoral, is because we have found that regarding rape as immoral, makes for a society which better fits with our desire for happiness, which like all desires is inherent and part of our nature.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 21, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay All of which is beside the point, since it does not address the basic question of. Why invent human culture at all, all of it not just the moral, if we do not have inherent hard wired motivations that require fulfillment ?

I don't see why Lauren Bobert's such a big problem in America.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Sep 19, 2022:

Ya know, I could pass such a test with higher scores than most Xtians.

Fernapple replies on Sep 21, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 Sorry its called irony, I know that I should not use it on a site with an American majority appologies.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay 1. Now you are contraditing yourself, because you just told us that nature tells us that it is good to increase the chances of propagating our genes by rape and seeking better willing mates. 2. There can not be any such thing as a pure human cultural product, since human culture only exists within a physical and biological environment, and if those environments do not present needs and drives, then there is no reason for human culture to exist.

A proponent of a Middle-Eastern religion once asked me, as an agnostic, what book I read to guide me...

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I would look at you the same way. I've studied anatomy extensively and I've never come across an "inner compass" as an separate organ nor as a part of the brain. 😏 Thing is no body is born with innate morality. Nobody IS evil or IS good. Everyone LEARNS evil and LEARNS good and then through ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

1. No, that is a gross over simplification, since, you do not get your morality from learning or entirely from inherited natural instinct. Morality like nearly everything else in the human world is an emergent property which needs a complex interaction between both those things to appear. 2. The inner compass is called a metaphor, no one is saying that it is an anatomical structure. Metaphors are often used in human culture, to express ideas about things which are not yet determined fully by reductionist methods. There are a large numbers of such structures, like consciousness in the human mental sphere, which are not yet fully explained by reductionist methods, and are therefore commonly addressed by metaphors.

I would not normally do this but I am so sickened by a comment made in answer to one of my comments ...

Diaco comments on Sep 20, 2022:

I'd Echo my reply there under his comment : ----- In which animal raping is a desirable thing?! even the most stupid animals try hard to attract another one to mating. you claim: " There is no genetic or physical component to the concepts of empathy and altruism. " If so, pls. ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

@FearlessFly Humans evolved language long ago which made it much easier to communicate ideas like. "Help I am in distress." We therefore have to rely much less on empathy for such communications, so that the evolutionary pressures to possess it are much weaker, and it is possible therefore that there has been long enough, for our instincts of empathy and intuitive understanding to have declined a lot, relative to most social animals.

I don't see why Lauren Bobert's such a big problem in America.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Sep 19, 2022:

Ya know, I could pass such a test with higher scores than most Xtians.

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 Yes I am aware of all that.

just a storage issue my ass

Fernapple comments on Sep 16, 2022:

Some very good ones this time.

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

@whiskywoman You don't fall far short.

I would not normally do this but I am so sickened by a comment made in answer to one of my comments ...

Diaco comments on Sep 20, 2022:

I'd Echo my reply there under his comment : ----- In which animal raping is a desirable thing?! even the most stupid animals try hard to attract another one to mating. you claim: " There is no genetic or physical component to the concepts of empathy and altruism. " If so, pls. ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

@Diaco Thank you.

I would not normally do this but I am so sickened by a comment made in answer to one of my comments ...

Diaco comments on Sep 20, 2022:

I'd Echo my reply there under his comment : ----- In which animal raping is a desirable thing?! even the most stupid animals try hard to attract another one to mating. you claim: " There is no genetic or physical component to the concepts of empathy and altruism. " If so, pls. ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

@Diaco Or try rats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyolz2Qf1ms

I would not normally do this but I am so sickened by a comment made in answer to one of my comments ...

Diaco comments on Sep 20, 2022:

I'd Echo my reply there under his comment : ----- In which animal raping is a desirable thing?! even the most stupid animals try hard to attract another one to mating. you claim: " There is no genetic or physical component to the concepts of empathy and altruism. " If so, pls. ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

Do you have a link to the thread ?

I don't see why Lauren Bobert's such a big problem in America.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Sep 19, 2022:

Ya know, I could pass such a test with higher scores than most Xtians.

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

Yes it is generally the case that biblical knowledge is higher among atheists/agnostics, than practicing Christians. ( Why does the spell checker on this site make me use a capital for Christian, but lower case for atheist and agnostic ? Sorry, just thinking out loud. )

One of the many reasons..

AnneWimsey comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I did that when recovering from knee replacement you judgemental fool, as have several of my friends with orthopedic problems...I bet somebody in Europe has done it too.....

Fernapple replies on Sep 20, 2022:

Yes it happens here.

I beg to differ.

KKGator comments on Sep 19, 2022:

I wish he'd have a stroke and just die already.

Fernapple replies on Sep 19, 2022:

No he has to face justice, no slipping the leash though early death.

If the evidence for an Abrahamic god is confined to a book of fairy tales then what is the logical ...

Fernapple comments on Sep 19, 2022:

1. Agnosticism comes in several forms, it is not therefore possible to answer that question without you first define the form of agnosticism you which to address. 2. Agnosticism generally, does not just apply to the Abrahamic god, but to all gods, including the deist. Especially so in the form ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 19, 2022:

@waitingforgodo It depends on the degree of uncertainty. I for one, am an acting atheist in effect. But I am also honest, I hope, and therefore my honesty forces me to admit that I do not have any evidence to disprove either the Easter Bunny, or Santa, therefore to that degree, and only to that degree, I am agnostic about those and about god as well. That does not mean that I have any belief in them, only that I do not have Santas body to prove that he is not here any longer. And I am happy with that, because, in a tactical sense, I do not therefore give any leaverage to the theist appologists who ask, for proof of the none existence of god from hard atheists. Which leaves the burden of proof where it should be, with the believer. Which is good, if for no other reason than that I have neither the time, nor interest to debate such silly points with faith fools. I am an atheist but I am happy to be agnostic as well because the two are not mutually exclusive, since one is about knowledge and the other about belief, and defending the hard atheist possition seems to me to be a waste of time. And my degree to which I credit any idea with the likelyhood of being true, is dependent on the quality of the evidence in its favour as well as that against. So that I assess the evidence for, humans usually having two legs as quite extremely high, the evidence for evolution by natural sellection as very high, the evidence that seeing a bus shelter means there could be a bus, as quite good, the evidence for the Yeti very poor, and for god and Santa extremely poor, and not therefore liable even to make me consider their existence. It is a sliding scale and not a matter of absolutes, the evidence for absolutes being itself very poor.

🤠😋🤗🙃😊🤠😋🤗🙃😊

Apunzelle comments on Sep 18, 2022:

I see a Reese’s peanut cup trend. Yum.

Fernapple replies on Sep 19, 2022:

@Buck Turn your phone on its side before you snap.

"The best things in life are free.

MizJ comments on Sep 19, 2022:

The cost is one aspect, quality is more important. Now I am thinking about "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Pirsig. Fabulous book.

Fernapple replies on Sep 19, 2022:

Yes, the remark also means, the worst things are often the most expensive.

"The best things in life are free.

Buttercup comments on Sep 18, 2022:

I first heard it attributed to native Hawaiin , "The best things in life aren't things"

Fernapple replies on Sep 19, 2022:

That is a really good form of it, yes.

I really love Alice Roberts humour, and wondered if this is a purely British thing, or can the ...

DenoPenno comments on Sep 18, 2022:

Morals without religion. Lots of people seem obsessed with this idea. Personally I have not given morals too much of a thought. Most of us do what works for us and what pleases us.

Fernapple replies on Sep 18, 2022:

I think that morals come perfectly naturally to humans, except when your culture skrews them arround, especially for evil purposes. The reason why many sceptics are thinking a lot about the idea, is of course because there is a need to counter the quite false argument of religious appologists, that you can't have morals without religion. Even though it is of course ironically the religious who most like to skrew morals arround. Though actually A. Roberts video is not really about that subject, but just a slightly funny autobiography of a humanist.

Anton Petrov - Did Advanced Civilizations Exist Before Humans?

AnneWimsey comments on Sep 17, 2022:

Without listening to it, I bet it has more "what if", "possible" "perhaps" & other qualifiers per sentence than times drump pleaded the 5th...

Fernapple replies on Sep 18, 2022:

@AnneWimsey Yes that is very true.

Go meat free….

barjoe comments on Sep 18, 2022:

I was a vegetation (vegetarian lol) years ago, and then I broke up with my girlfriend. The first thing I did was run to get a cheesesteak. Boy it tasted good. I'll never give up my meat. It made me happy. Healthy? You gotta die of something.

Fernapple replies on Sep 18, 2022:

Nice to know you were a vegetation, presumably in a former life, were you a forest, a grassland, or a bunch of seaweed ?

A man steals $100 from a store then he buys $70 worth of goods from that same store using the $100 ...

Garban comments on Sep 17, 2022:

$100 was stolen. The rest of the story is a distraction.

Fernapple replies on Sep 18, 2022:

No, it depends on whether the man would have gone back to the store had he not stolen the money. Because if the store makes an 'extra' sale it is to be assumed, unless the man blocked a parking space, and prevented someone else from going in. Which means that whatever the percentage of the seventy which is pure profit the store got back. If however the man would have gone into the store and made the same purchse using unstolen money anyway, then the stores loss is one hundred.

Anton Petrov - Did Advanced Civilizations Exist Before Humans?

AnneWimsey comments on Sep 17, 2022:

Without listening to it, I bet it has more "what if", "possible" "perhaps" & other qualifiers per sentence than times drump pleaded the 5th...

Fernapple replies on Sep 18, 2022:

It is perhaps though, the people who don't use qualifiers that you should be most wary of.

It is a very heavy year for fruit this Autumn.

FrayedBear comments on Sep 18, 2022:

What do you make with them?

Fernapple replies on Sep 18, 2022:

Sometimes I make pies, they are not a type that you can eat raw.

Atheists didn’t finish the job (yet), so God’s Not Dead 5 will come out in 2023

skado comments on Sep 14, 2022:

People who think atheists should, would, or ever could finish God off are people who don’t know where the God idea comes from. The wish to see God gone is a deathwish, because the God concept is an integral part of the human species. When it goes, we go. No worry. We’ll probably be gone ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2022:

If that is true, how come millions of people survived for thousands of years with pretheistic religions ?

It is a very heavy year for fruit this Autumn.

KateOahu comments on Sep 17, 2022:

I wasn’t familiar with Rowanberries, so went looking. Found the page interesting, where I learned that you shouldn’t harvest them until after a frost…or several. Just one thing, if you decide to use them to cast a magic spell on me, please make it a pleasant one. ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2022:

Your most delightful dream shall be made reality.

It is a very heavy year for fruit this Autumn.

OldGoat43 comments on Sep 17, 2022:

Do you ever harvest them for juices or cider?

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2022:

One day if I get time, I retire this year.

Vor mehr als 70 Jahren wurde erstmals nachgewiesen, dass langes Sitzen unserer Gesundheit schadet.

Fernapple comments on Sep 17, 2022:

Hey folk, in case you don't do German, this appears to be a sales pitch for office equipment. lol

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2022:

@p-nullifidian No I use Google translate. Why a German language should come out of China is hard to know, unless you assume that amy77 is s a sales pitch robot.

It is a very heavy year for fruit this Autumn.

Garban comments on Sep 17, 2022:

Looks healthy for a drought season. Irrigation or the power of prayer?😉

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2022:

Not either, strangely it may just be the trees response to the dought stress possibly, that is what I thought was so interesting about it.

Tell us 😆😂🤣

Organist1 comments on Sep 16, 2022:

We had a Hepatitis A outbreak in our school, spread by the lunch lady.

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2022:

@Organist1 Rats in the kitchen at night running arround treating it as a playground, and urinating on all the equipment. The school kitchen was closed down for several weeks and refitted after that. I missed it sadly, and the bought it take-aways, because I was one of the victims, at home in bed, but I was allowed to take a lunch box for the remaining years, which was great because the school food like that in most British schools then was inedible anyway.

Tell us 😆😂🤣

Organist1 comments on Sep 16, 2022:

We had a Hepatitis A outbreak in our school, spread by the lunch lady.

Fernapple replies on Sep 16, 2022:

Ditto.

Hypothesis: Religious behavior a consequence of autism.

Fernapple comments on Sep 16, 2022:

Slight problem with the last one, there is no evidence that men are more likely to follow religion. Its a better fit with immaturity.

Fernapple replies on Sep 16, 2022:

@yvilletom I know of none. There are a few like Quakerism, which do seem to be egalitarian, but it is not a religion. Just a sub-sect of the very hierarcical Christian religion, which respects an imaginary, male god, male leader, male prophets, male writers of holy books, and male apologists.

Hypothesis: Religious behavior a consequence of autism.

Fernapple comments on Sep 16, 2022:

Slight problem with the last one, there is no evidence that men are more likely to follow religion. Its a better fit with immaturity.

Fernapple replies on Sep 16, 2022:

@yvilletom Yes but that would be religious leadership and not religion. We autistic people like to be exact.

"I will look upon death or of comedy with the same expression of countenance." Seneca

Fernapple comments on Sep 15, 2022:

Bet he was fun at parties.

Fernapple replies on Sep 15, 2022:

@Beowulfsfriend That is what parties are for to test your Stoic credentials.

Release of more classified UFO videos will ‘harm national security’, US Navy spokesperson says...

Druvius comments on Sep 13, 2022:

Well, yeah, it would give hostile powers information about the capabilities of US imaging systems. Kind of a no brainer really.

Fernapple replies on Sep 13, 2022:

Or with good images, you may be able to spot the all too human pilots, aboard the all too experimental things that the Russians would love good shots of.

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

SnowyOwl comments on Sep 12, 2022:

Are you suggesting that the Religitards of the world would be so devious and underhanded as to misrepresent themselves and then misquote atheists and agnostics in order to further promote their religious dogma and vilify those who want nothing to do with such a cruel, hate filled and oppressive ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 13, 2022:

@SnowyOwl That's why I only raise it as a something to think about, in the back of the mind.

On the queen The UK has been transformed as planned into a world stage to demonstrate by acting ...

Marionville comments on Sep 13, 2022:

I’ve never been a royalist…but in the case of Queen Elizabeth she has proved to be a better head of state than any elected President or politician anywhere in the world. She has fulfilled her role and provided a reassuring constancy during seven decades of immense change at home and throughout ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 13, 2022:

The only real advantage I ever thought there was in monachy, is that complete jerks, like Johnson, and L. T., not to mention Blair, who only get elected because of chance anomilies of the voting system, don't get to call themselves president.

Our local village of Caistor has been putting on a floral display again this year.

FrayedBear comments on Sep 13, 2022:

I see that Caistor locals nearly 2000 years may have been involved in crucifying Simon the Zealot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caistor

Fernapple replies on Sep 13, 2022:

@FrayedBear They probably did hang flowers out, especially to celebrate ridding themselves of a pest. There has always been an atitude problem in Lincolnshire.

Our local village of Caistor has been putting on a floral display again this year.

tinkercreek comments on Sep 13, 2022:

Wow, beautiful! - how long do the displays stay up?

Fernapple replies on Sep 13, 2022:

All summer.

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

Charles1971 comments on Sep 12, 2022:

Your premise is plausible though if these anti-atheist members are simply interested in disparaging us they can easily fabricate quotes and posts to spread to their little hate groups. Though, it's not as if these trolls are clever or smart.

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

Yes though from their point of view, there is a lot more value in provoking actual quotes.

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

Flyingsaucesir comments on Sep 12, 2022:

It's certainly worth considering. We don't want to give ammunition to the opposition.

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

It does not take much of a brain to think. "I think I will go troll the atheists. Bet my mates will love some of the replies."

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

AnneWimsey comments on Sep 12, 2022:

The "new members" that come to mind have in no way the intelligence, plannimg, or skills to do any such thing....IQ of 75, at best, and filled with free-floating anger.

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

@Castlepaloma The idea of the quotes was to put the, "stupid" as the view of the troll, since most trolls probably do think of everyone else as stupid, even their friends, that is what makes them trolls to a degree.

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

SnowyOwl comments on Sep 12, 2022:

Are you suggesting that the Religitards of the world would be so devious and underhanded as to misrepresent themselves and then misquote atheists and agnostics in order to further promote their religious dogma and vilify those who want nothing to do with such a cruel, hate filled and oppressive ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

Yes a lot of people are assuming that I am pushing a conspiracy theory, which could in fact happen. But as I said to Middleway above, I was thinking more of a low level, spontaneous cut and paste. "I went to agnostic.com and guess what one of them said ?" I think that it is perfectly possible, and indeed probably even common.

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

TheMiddleWay comments on Sep 12, 2022:

I think it's true in a "confirmation bias"/"self fulfilling prophecy" sense but not in a quote harvesting sense. By this I mean that if I want to prove that non-believers are assholes, I come onto an non-believer board and be an asshole myself thus eliciting asshole responses and thus I can walk ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

That is very true, I am sure that it would be very rare to have it happen at an organized planned level, although at a low level, spontaneous cut and paste. "I went to agnostic.com and guess what one of them said ?" I think that it is perfectly possible, and indeed probably even common.

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

Spinliesel comments on Sep 12, 2022:

Goodness, I have missed ll of that drama. Who are you speaking of? Of course, since all my life I have been not paying attention to religious remarks, this may just be a continuation of my own way of dealing with stuff. Or my eyesight is failing so much that all the juicy bits are swimming by.

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

You can miss a lot on this site, things disappear fast. A lot depends on what time of day you log on.

Just a thought about something that sometimes happens on this site, every now and again.

AnneWimsey comments on Sep 12, 2022:

The "new members" that come to mind have in no way the intelligence, plannimg, or skills to do any such thing....IQ of 75, at best, and filled with free-floating anger.

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

Oh I am not sure about that, it does not take much planning to think. " Lets go troll the sceptics and see if I can get something that will impress my stupid mates."

Back to one of the old favourites from the deep past, I am sure it was all a lot more complicated ...

Robecology comments on Sep 12, 2022:

The gist of the article was "The whole picture of dinosaurs is backward. They're primarily cold-adapted animals." I read it..but I don't see it. I read about the geology and climate of those times... I read that most larger "dinosaurs" thrived in the extreme warmth I ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2022:

I agree it is not the best case I have seen put forward. But a lot of people now think that they may indeed all have had feathers, except for the very large ones, since bulk alone would be a warm adaption.

Allow children to choose religion and form world-views after growing up.

Krish55 comments on Sep 10, 2022:

Impossible to totally eliminate! All cultures must of necessity enculturate their young. The real question is how to do so. Some comments below shows a poor understanding of sociology, anthropology, social psychology, and developmental psychology. Critiques have to be based on facts, ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 11, 2022:

@Krish55 That's ok. You are welcome.

Allow children to choose religion and form world-views after growing up.

Krish55 comments on Sep 10, 2022:

Impossible to totally eliminate! All cultures must of necessity enculturate their young. The real question is how to do so. Some comments below shows a poor understanding of sociology, anthropology, social psychology, and developmental psychology. Critiques have to be based on facts, ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 11, 2022:

As you say. "All cultures must of necessity enculturate their young." That's what the post says, it does not say that you can or must do without it, only that it is a fact.

UK News Liz Truss, don't like her already.

Fernapple comments on Sep 10, 2022:

If you are a really cynical politician, with no conscience, then you look for a busy day to hide bad news. Mind you, I did not think that LT was that smart, maybe she just got lucky ?

Fernapple replies on Sep 11, 2022:

@puff Or mindlessly following her guru M. Thatcher, who was a right wing puppet of the capitalist institutions, but did at least have some talent, charisma and grasp. Which will kind of make it hard for L.T. to follow, that act.

The ahistorical claims of Christian Nationalists get me going.

Fernapple comments on Sep 10, 2022:

If they believe that Jesus still works within the material world, then it follows that, he has plans for everywhere all of the time. In which case, he does not seem to be any good at getting his plans to work.

Fernapple replies on Sep 10, 2022:

@phxbillcee Like father like son.

Charles III is the head of the Church of England.

Fernapple comments on Sep 10, 2022:

When the Founders established the constitution, they may well have intended that, not having a state religion would eventually lead to a secular nation. But thanks to the law of unintended consequences, what they did was to privatize religion, and make it a for profit business, thereby adding an ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 10, 2022:

@David1955 That's the one hope, monopolies tend to implode on themselves.

Frightening;

Fernapple comments on Sep 10, 2022:

The perfect couple, I would be a bit worried if they had babies though.

Fernapple replies on Sep 10, 2022:

@Alienbeing Pure Aryan bigot I would assume.

I don't know; what's your opinion.

Beowulfsfriend comments on Sep 9, 2022:

Possible both. On one trump meeting with the Queen, the Queen wore a broach gifted to her by Obama.

Fernapple replies on Sep 10, 2022:

She did have a great sense of humour its said.

Yes he's Xtian but I fully support him.

Apunzelle comments on Sep 8, 2022:

English degree here. I’ve used “they” as a gender-neutral pronoun for decades. I’m a writer for a large company, and it’s in our brand manual that “they” is preferred to “he/she.” It’s confusing to no one. Anyways, who cares about this fool? He’s just like a baker who ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 8, 2022:

@puff There, I hope that I annoy both of you equally. LOL

Yes he's Xtian but I fully support him.

Apunzelle comments on Sep 8, 2022:

English degree here. I’ve used “they” as a gender-neutral pronoun for decades. I’m a writer for a large company, and it’s in our brand manual that “they” is preferred to “he/she.” It’s confusing to no one. Anyways, who cares about this fool? He’s just like a baker who ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 8, 2022:

@puff "Good morning all." Would do quite well I think.

Yes he's Xtian but I fully support him.

Apunzelle comments on Sep 8, 2022:

English degree here. I’ve used “they” as a gender-neutral pronoun for decades. I’m a writer for a large company, and it’s in our brand manual that “they” is preferred to “he/she.” It’s confusing to no one. Anyways, who cares about this fool? He’s just like a baker who ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 8, 2022:

Should it not be: as a gender-neutral pronoun, and not "are".

A Stoic is someone who transforms fear into prudence, pain into transformation, mistakes into ...

zeuser comments on Sep 7, 2022:

My understanding of stoicism is somewhat different. I will explore further on my own.

Fernapple replies on Sep 8, 2022:

True. But to be fair, I think that he is talking about the popular usage of Stoic, not the original philosophic meaning.

I ran onto this article while trying to find out whether or not wizards were ever burned at the ...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Sep 6, 2022:

From what I researched years ago, 75% of the people burned/hanged as witches were women and 75% of them were old women. Women, men, kids, and animals were put to death for practicing witchcraft. It is interesting to note, though, that Elizabeth I was close to John Dee--who was a part of her ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 7, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 One of the more revealing things about how social attitudes play into it. Is the word "Hag" meaning an old dirty and ugly female who is probably a witch. It originally derived from an old English word of several spellings but roughly "hagge", which originally meant the rough land just outside the village boundary but short of the wild forest, and also the people, of both sexes originally, who lived there. (It also gave us "hedge", which today means a living fence of shrubs, but which originally meant the outer fence of the village which, fenced of the hagge. ) Imagine the loneliness, the exclusion and the economic difficulties which are contained in that word.

I'm sure you all agree with this post.

Petter comments on Sep 7, 2022:

Being a happy, good looking, highly intelligent bloke, of course I agree.

Fernapple replies on Sep 7, 2022:

@Garban We are the only sort who seem to come to this site.

Is it just me?

Organist1 comments on Sep 7, 2022:

Unless the meal makes me violently ill on the spot, or the waiter throws the food in my face on purpose, or maybe if there's a dead rodent or Madagascar hissing cockroach in my soup, I can't think of a situation in which I wouldn't pay for a meal. Occasionally I have left a very small tip for ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 7, 2022:

In the UK the law says that, if you are unhappy with your meal or service, you should pay half the asked fee. Because you have used the seating and lighting etc. even if the meal or service was bad.

Is it just me?

Julie808 comments on Sep 7, 2022:

Oh my goodness, this question must have been asked in a large urban location for 22% to think it's okay not to pay the basic bill. I live in a small community, where everyone knows each other. There is no way anyone wanting to eat out again would ever stiff the restaurant, owners, staff, etc.,...

Fernapple replies on Sep 7, 2022:

In the UK the law says that, if you are unhappy with your meal or service, you should pay half the asked fee. Because you have used the seating and lighting etc. even if the meal or service was bad.

I ran onto this article while trying to find out whether or not wizards were ever burned at the ...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Sep 6, 2022:

From what I researched years ago, 75% of the people burned/hanged as witches were women and 75% of them were old women. Women, men, kids, and animals were put to death for practicing witchcraft. It is interesting to note, though, that Elizabeth I was close to John Dee--who was a part of her ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 7, 2022:

@dalefvictor I remember reading a study done on witch trials many years ago. In which the author found that almost invariably, the first people accused of being witches by others, had previously asked the accuser, for what was then called an act of Christian charity, and had been refused. ("She asked to borrow my axe so that she could cut some wood because she was cold. I said no, and shortly after that the illness started." ) The accusation therefore almost always started with someone feeling guilty, about not giving reasonable aid to a reasonable request, and then blaming the victim. And who in a patriarchal society were most dependent on the charity of others, except of course old, often widowed, members of the legally and economically disadvantaged sex ?

Can Religion Without Belief “Make Perfect Sense”? | Mind Matters

Fernapple comments on Sep 6, 2022:

One common claim made by religious apologists is that, all of the harm coming from religion stems from a literal interpretation of it, and that it can be easily be redeemed by treating it as a metaphor. But sadly, whether religion is metaphorical or literal, is completely beside the point as to ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 6, 2022:

@David1955 I always define religion as. A synonym for the Proof By Authority fallacy. It matters not if that authority come from a god, or only from tradition, excessive respect for texts, institutions or teachers, it is still the same. And what you really have to ask is, who really needs to use proof by authority, good people with good ideas which are well supported by evidence and logic, or bad people with bad ideas which they can find no good justifications for if pressed ?

What's you favorite non domesticated animal? I'd have to go with the

Emanuele comments on Sep 4, 2022:

Beaver

Fernapple replies on Sep 5, 2022:

@FvckY0u You can go there too often, stroking beavers can prove very expensive.

Huh.

Krish55 comments on Sep 3, 2022:

Why does the senate need to discuss this if it was merely a block? I understand the later discussion if he is gone and we are concerned about him. I hope that speaking about him publicly didn't cause him to leave... Perhaps when we have an issue with someone, we can address that person ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 3, 2022:

Perhaps because the Community Senate is the one place a block does not work, and Matias will still be able to read what is here.

I thought this was an interesting nugget of information. The highest point on earth?

Beowulfsfriend comments on Sep 1, 2022:

Add Mauna Loa in Hawaii, as from its base on the seafloor it rises some 33000 feet.

Fernapple replies on Sep 1, 2022:

Tallest mountain.

Never have I ever..

Sgt_Spanky comments on Sep 1, 2022:

I have never run the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl, played lead guitar in a classic rock band, or made any significant discoveries in science. I'm freakin' useless. :(

Fernapple replies on Sep 1, 2022:

That makes two of us. Maybe we should form a club for useless people, who like to hang out on the internet exchanging anti-religious thoughts, when we have nothing better to do, we could call it something like Agnostic.com.

More on my favourite thinker, and the inspiration behind the biggest challenge early Christianity ...

Garban comments on Aug 31, 2022:

Horace on Epicurus :

Fernapple replies on Aug 31, 2022:

Some people say that it is a slander on the Epicurans, since Epicurus himself certainly lived a very plain life and so did his early followers and the ideal was certainly one of moderate austerity. Yet there may have been many, especially later followers, who did not. On the other hand Horace could well be being ironic. At this distance who knows, it is an interesting puzzle inside a conundrum.

There's nothing wrong with an early start to perfecting one's craft.

Unity comments on Aug 30, 2022:

"Why must I feel like that? Why must I chase the cat?....." ~Parliament Funkadelic~

Fernapple replies on Aug 31, 2022:

@Unity Ah, no sorry I do not know the song.

There's nothing wrong with an early start to perfecting one's craft.

Unity comments on Aug 30, 2022:

"Why must I feel like that? Why must I chase the cat?....." ~Parliament Funkadelic~

Fernapple replies on Aug 30, 2022:

He's trying to make a pun. The baby is tying to get his hands on some pussy. Yes it made me groan too when I worked it out.

There are it is said as many different definitions of what the word “Religion” means, as there ...

Flyingsaucesir comments on Aug 29, 2022:

My simplified definition of religion: belief in something in the absence of any independently-verifiable evidence.

Fernapple replies on Aug 30, 2022:

@Flyingsaucesir It does indeed.

Since the word "Evil" seem to be used in many different forms.

Fernapple comments on Aug 29, 2022:

There is no such thing as an absolute evil, there is merely a spectrum of good an bad things, with no dividing lines and most things being in the middle. (The bell curve.) If we like to give the most extreme end of the spectrum a special term, such as, evil. Then well and good, but the big danger ...

Fernapple replies on Aug 30, 2022:

@Betty, @Barnie2years No I am just a dumb ass redneck.

Since the word "Evil" seem to be used in many different forms.

Fernapple comments on Aug 29, 2022:

There is no such thing as an absolute evil, there is merely a spectrum of good an bad things, with no dividing lines and most things being in the middle. (The bell curve.) If we like to give the most extreme end of the spectrum a special term, such as, evil. Then well and good, but the big danger ...

Fernapple replies on Aug 30, 2022:

@Betty That is very true. Interestingly, Plato wrote about that same thing nearly twenty five centuries ago.

My fellow evil heathens are going to ruin the world.

Fernapple comments on Aug 29, 2022:

Yes, but can we drink sixteen cans of beer without falling over ?

Fernapple replies on Aug 30, 2022:

@LenHazell53 The wisest of men know that everything useful is done layed down.

There are it is said as many different definitions of what the word “Religion” means, as there ...

Flyingsaucesir comments on Aug 29, 2022:

My simplified definition of religion: belief in something in the absence of any independently-verifiable evidence.

Fernapple replies on Aug 29, 2022:

That is in part my point. But belief in something without any evidence, could be honest belief or superstition. The point of my definition, is that what makes religion different from those two, is fake evidence or claims to justfy it by appeal to fake authority.

Since the word "Evil" seem to be used in many different forms.

Fernapple comments on Aug 29, 2022:

There is no such thing as an absolute evil, there is merely a spectrum of good an bad things, with no dividing lines and most things being in the middle. (The bell curve.) If we like to give the most extreme end of the spectrum a special term, such as, evil. Then well and good, but the big danger ...

Fernapple replies on Aug 29, 2022:

@Betty My main point is I tend to avoid using it at all, because I do not think it is a good word. But if I did it would mean very bad things, but with a very fuzzy edge.

There are it is said as many different definitions of what the word “Religion” means, as there ...

KateOahu comments on Aug 29, 2022:

I think the word “organized” belongs somewhere in the definition of “religion”. Otherwise, I would simply call it unfounded belief, which religion IS, but not only that.

Fernapple replies on Aug 29, 2022:

@Julie808 Yes that is about it. But there could be appeals to other sources of false authority such as tradition, or a literal god, not just text. My point being that it is the use of fake evidence or proof from authorities, which makes religion different from mere beliefs, such as superstision which is unsupported, and honest belief, which honestly admits it has no support.

There are it is said as many different definitions of what the word “Religion” means, as there ...

KateOahu comments on Aug 29, 2022:

I think the word “organized” belongs somewhere in the definition of “religion”. Otherwise, I would simply call it unfounded belief, which religion IS, but not only that.

Fernapple replies on Aug 29, 2022:

Yes true, Julie808 below made much the same point. But I think that misses my point a bit, which was that there is a difference between unfounded belief, which you could sometimes call, honest belief, and religion. In that honest belief, admits that it is unfounded which is what makes it honest. As in, I may say that I believe that it is our duty to care for the environment, while someone else could say f##k the environment lets have a good time and be the last generation on earth, and we could both agree that we could not prove our belief and agree to differ. ( Actually I could prove mine. ) But what makes it religion, and not honest belief, is the attempt to support that unfounded belief with fake authority, whether it be the authority of a divine god, the supernatural wisdom of prophets, tradition, ritual or exagerated respect for writen text over other sources.

There are it is said as many different definitions of what the word “Religion” means, as there ...

DenoPenno comments on Aug 29, 2022:

I go with Mark Twain's idea that it is believing something you know is not so. A bit out of context here but it works.

Fernapple replies on Aug 29, 2022:

That is actually pretty close to the same thing.