Yesterday morning I submitted a post, and when I saw later that people had reacted and commented, I ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 23, 2022:

The site works best with a desktop, people who use mobile devices, (I don't know if that includes you. ) often encounter problems. You can also sometimes get problems if you make the things first and then open them with the app, it is best to copy into a text editor, and then copy to here, or type ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 24, 2022:

@waitingforgodo Well you know full well that, it was set up by Christian fundamentalists, to collect information on sceptics. And that they are making a hit list, ready for when the evangelicals are poised to take over and make the USA a theocracy.

Putin's evolution: weird kid -> spook -> kleptocrat -> war criminal ->

Garban comments on Mar 22, 2022:

My fairytale version: Botched suicide attempt leaving him competent but physically pathetic condition. Humiliating conviction to life in prison for war crimes. Multiple botched painful suicide attempts finally resulting in a humiliating death at the age of 99.

Fernapple replies on Mar 22, 2022:

You really don't like him, do you ?

You WON'T Believe This Cruel New Law - YouTube

misstuffy comments on Mar 22, 2022:

Glad I dont live in a state like this, If I were a woman of child bearing age, in a state with a law like this, I would move.

Fernapple replies on Mar 22, 2022:

The next law will say that you can't move across a state border, without a visa and permit.

"Going to church does not make you a good person, says Pope Francis" [christiantoday.

Beowulfsfriend comments on Mar 21, 2022:

And yet, the catholic church has holy days of obligation and insists people attend or they've committed a minor sin. Just out of HS, one of the fellows with whom I partied would often set times to get together on Saturdays - any time after 6:30 pm. He needed to do mass to keep mom happy. And ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 22, 2022:

Why not Saturday night while drunk ? After all the priest performing the rite, usually is.

"Going to church does not make you a good person, says Pope Francis" [christiantoday.

Fernapple comments on Mar 21, 2022:

The church supports and fosters narcissism, My god, My prayers, My spirituality, My church, My congregation, My demons, My faith, and even My charity, it all starts with the big MY. Because narcissists are needy and will buy any fix to keep the delusion of their specialness alive, and the more ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 22, 2022:

@Triphid Well they would certainly be burning, that evil book. "The gosples according to Satan and Lucifer." LOL

Minimally CounterIntuitive Concepts Counter to popular folklore, the evidence, so far, does not ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 21, 2022:

Actually the article you are citing, states exactly the opposite of your claim. "Counter to popular folklore, the evidence, so far, does not support the claim that the persistence of religion is due to the indoctrination of children. Rather, it is purely biological. That is to say, it is a ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 21, 2022:

@Garban The actual science quoted, is little more than an experimental confirmation of R. Dawkins, old speculative idea that children are credulous by nature, because learning counter-intuitive information from parents gives protection against dangers, obvious statements hardly need absorbing because they are self evident most of the time, but it is important to believe when adults tell you there are lions on the hill, especially so when you can not see any. And perhaps his other speculation that that is the main reason why, it is in fact very needful to protect children against indoctrination, is exactly because they are so subject to easy manipulation by it.

THis arsehole makes me ashamed to be British Boris Johnson has been uninvited to an important ...

Petter comments on Mar 21, 2022:

Johnson is amazingly supple for his age. How many of you can still open your mouth and, without straining, put your foot into it?

Fernapple replies on Mar 21, 2022:

Does it time after time.

If there's no evidence a god exists and there's no evidence that a true miracle has ever happened ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Mar 21, 2022:

> If they can accept that fire-breathing dragons aren't real, why do they refuse to accept that god isn't as well? Two reasons come to mind: 1) Lack of evidence for something is not the same as claiming something doesn't exist. (the evidentiary reason) Almost everyone one of us lacks any ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 21, 2022:

Yes that is all very true. Although it has to be said that you and the poster, are perhaps taking past one another. Since you are clearly refering to a deist god, while the poster is clearly refering to the specific gods of religions. All of which certainly can not exist, for at least the reason, that, since many make the claim that the others don't, so logically only at least one can be correct and exist, while the others don't. Since if a god makes a claim that the others do not exist as part of its own existence, then either they or it do not exist.

"Going to church does not make you a good person, says Pope Francis" [christiantoday.

Fernapple comments on Mar 21, 2022:

The church supports and fosters narcissism, My god, My prayers, My spirituality, My church, My congregation, My demons, My faith, and even My charity, it all starts with the big MY. Because narcissists are needy and will buy any fix to keep the delusion of their specialness alive, and the more ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 21, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yes it is a stretch, but it is also based on long years, over sixty, of observing the effects that religion has on the human personality. The use of the pronoun was metaphorical and ironically light hearted of course, but it is not without grounding, even if only in personal experience. And there are plainly two different usages, "MY" belief that, we will sell more oats if we put some in the shop window. Is clearly free from narcissism. While "MY" belief that I need more spiritual experience, to assuage my fear of death, is not.

Why Would A God Need to be Worshipped? (or is God a Karen?) - YouTube

skado comments on Mar 20, 2022:

This is a problem only for literalists. The more troubling question would be… why on earth would an atheist ever be a literalist?

Fernapple replies on Mar 21, 2022:

@skado Because the none literal view is often as deviant and dangerous as the literal, and contains many of the same errors, so there is little point in separating the two. All of the evils of religion come from the culture it generates the. The existence of a purely deist god, or not, would have, and does have, no effect on the world at all and is of little interest to anyone. V. Putin who probably is not a literal Christian, according to many who know him, is still using the uniting of the Orthodox church as one of his major excuses, to shell buildings with children in them, among lots of other things. The literal or none literal view of god, is largely beside the point, since addopting religion for most, even if they do not have a literal belief in god, effectively makes a god out of tradition, and tradition is just as cruel, mindless and unjustified in its assumptions as a literal god. There is no reason therefore, except on very rare occasions for atheists/agnostics to make any distinction between the two, and most of the time it is better not to.

I'm feeling beyond frustrated and feel a strong need to vent.

Fernapple comments on Mar 19, 2022:

The bottom line is, happy people are content, so they don't buy anything. The whole point of sales is make them believe they are unhappy, so that then you can sell them the solution. Which is why religion, which is pure sales, without even a product, at least not one you get to collect until ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 20, 2022:

@TomMcGiverin Never really been Buddhist, but people get to the same place by different routes, I would think. Now that sounds Buddhist too. LOL

Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine is not just a war of politics – it's a holy war ...

racocn8 comments on Mar 19, 2022:

I can't believe Putin is a believer, but who knows? It might explain the absurd explanations he keeps touting. I gather an orthodox prelate has blessed the "special operation". I still don't understand the "Nazis" invocation. It makes no more sense than the Nato bullshit. Are Russians really that ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 20, 2022:

He may not be a literal believer in Christianity, but of course it is perfectly possible to believe in Chritianity a culture, and as a pseudo-race, or pseudo-nation, and that loyalty to the tradition is the same as loyalty to the state.

Women should not be enlightened or educated in any way.

thinkwithme comments on Mar 20, 2022:

I was taught he said, "Love and do whatever you want." I choose to love and not believe that other bullshit

Fernapple replies on Mar 20, 2022:

St. Augustine changed his oppinions greatly over the years, and was proud of that, so that you may find a whole range of contradictory things in him. Which of course means that, just like the bible, you can find support for almost anything you want in him. Which probably helps make him a popular theologian, for the same reason the bible became popular in the first place.

It seems the war in Ukraine is being seen by many Xian leaders as the sign we are in the last ...

CuddyCruiser comments on Mar 19, 2022:

..

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

@MizJ The four are not mutually exclusive, fortunately.

It seems the war in Ukraine is being seen by many Xian leaders as the sign we are in the last ...

CuddyCruiser comments on Mar 19, 2022:

..

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

@MizJ Yes he may like them too. Though the two are not mutually exclusive. Generally I call myself an agnostic atheist in fine company. But just atheist most of the time, because most people would not understand that anyway.

Business this week took me to Nottingham, where with an hour to spare, I visited the Attenbough ...

KateOahu comments on Mar 19, 2022:

Nice shots.

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

Thank you.

It seems the war in Ukraine is being seen by many Xian leaders as the sign we are in the last ...

CuddyCruiser comments on Mar 19, 2022:

..

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

@Toonman God is like aliens on a planet around a distant star, their existence or not, makes no difference to us at all as long as they stay quiet. But if we detect a message then that could be very important to us. But then you have to face the fact that there are a hundred thousand claims of god's message, many of them contradictory and most of them not worthy of the author. Yet if aliens were advanced enough to send us a message, you can bet your bottom dollar, that with that level of technology, they could manage to make it clear and plain.

It seems the war in Ukraine is being seen by many Xian leaders as the sign we are in the last ...

CuddyCruiser comments on Mar 19, 2022:

..

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

And even if he did exist, how do you know he does not like atheists the best ?

Lee Smolin - What's Fundamental in the Cosmos?

Reignmond comments on Mar 18, 2022:

While I have a few Smolin books on Physics, and I "understand" where he is coming from, the practical fact is that this experience we call reality is as real as real can be for us. Any other view is simply going down a rabbit hole of illusion itself

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

@Reignmond A very good anology. Especially as you could add, that. They sometimes hear a clang and know they hit something, but not if it was what they were aiming for.

“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or to push an agenda.

p-nullifidian comments on Mar 19, 2022:

A great quote from a great Russian chess player! Modern propaganda remains true to its Roman Catholic origin, from whence the term originates. And whether in religious or political form, propaganda is the dissemination of lies and the subjugation of reason with faith.

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

@Marionville It seems that for many people, even the self evident truth that, failed governments who can't solve the problems at home, resort to blaming foreigners instead of owning their problems, is too clever for them to grasp.

Lee Smolin - What's Fundamental in the Cosmos?

Reignmond comments on Mar 18, 2022:

While I have a few Smolin books on Physics, and I "understand" where he is coming from, the practical fact is that this experience we call reality is as real as real can be for us. Any other view is simply going down a rabbit hole of illusion itself

Fernapple replies on Mar 19, 2022:

If the illusion is the only expereince you can have, then the illusion is reality for you. End of story, anything else is just dreamtime.

Thinking about getting a (my first) tattoo. I'm digging the spaghetti monster thing. Any thoughts?

Fernapple comments on Mar 18, 2022:

Nah, Go for a slogan like. "Jesus was gay." "Fairy-tales make Bibles." or "Satan was the good guy."

Fernapple replies on Mar 18, 2022:

@Captain_Feelgood You could always keep it covered, until after you have had sex with a nice Christian girl.

“Sometimes the bible in the hand of one man is worse than the whisky bottle in the hand of ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 18, 2022:

Oh, I think that is Atticuss in To Kill A Mockingbird.

Fernapple replies on Mar 18, 2022:

@Marionville Thank you. I remember it was someone talking to Scout.

Oops. Sorry for the mix up.

Arg1929 comments on Mar 17, 2022:

Mistaken idea of what a shamrock looks like. Both the oxalis and shamrock have 3 leaves, not 4. It is a clover, genus trifolium.

Fernapple replies on Mar 18, 2022:

Yes, especially St Patrick's, the whole point of which was the it was suppossed to be a metaphor for the holy trinity. To show stupid pagans, what a really clever idea it was, and how much smarter Christianity could be. (Irony)

[news.yahoo.com] Telescope Webb is a big success!

yvilletom comments on Mar 17, 2022:

Hm-mm, most interesting. And Hubble revealed some of what the Bang is allegedly unable to explain.

Fernapple replies on Mar 17, 2022:

@yvilletom No I don't think that is quite fair, given time science can and will move on, indeed it tries to. The Vat-In-can, only moves when forced from the outside.

[news.yahoo.com] Telescope Webb is a big success!

yvilletom comments on Mar 17, 2022:

Hm-mm, most interesting. And Hubble revealed some of what the Bang is allegedly unable to explain.

Fernapple replies on Mar 17, 2022:

There has been little doubt for a long time, that the so called "standard model" will need a lot of reviewing.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 16, 2022:

@skado " I don't set myself up as the moral corrector. " From the site bully who does not even draw the line at bullying new members before they have even found a footing. LOL

Why is racism is wrong?

skado comments on Feb 8, 2022:

If we are to be consistent, just like there is no literal god, there is no innate right or wrong. There are actions, and there are consequences. In our ancestral environment a hundred thousand years ago, racism wasn’t wrong. It was adaptive. It conferred survivability for our species. ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 16, 2022:

That is ridiculous. Racism is not and could never be adaptive. "In our ancestral environment a hundred thousand years ago." Or confer, "survivability for our species." Because for something to be adaptive there needs to be a survival or reproductive pressure to drive it. And that was impossible a hundred thousand years ago. Since until the invention and wide spread use of the ocean going sailing ship about three thousand years ago, and especially, its widespread use, about five hundred years ago, ninty nine point nine, ( add as many nines as you like, ) of the human species, passed their whole lives without ever encountering a person from another so called race. Nor does evolution, the genetic sort, deal in such fine judgements, things must be at best be culturally emerged properties from much more generalized instincts. What may have existed as an evolved trait a hundred thousand years ago, was perhaps neophobia, the fear of strange things, as a generalized instinct. Whether that be strange foods, places, animals, weather, etc.. And that could have led, in modern times, to a distrust of strange looking and culturally different people, which could have been formalized into cultural traditions of racism. PS. " Species survivability " has nothing to do with evolution on the micro scale either, and even whether it is a valid idea at all as a significant driver of evolution, is debatable.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 16, 2022:

@skado No like I say I have no intention of being snowballed, I would not respond to such a cheap sleazy trick which is itself more than enough to prove my case. And as you, should know the site does not store responses to comments only the first comments on the members list. And I have more than a good enough memory to remember at least two occasions, maybe a third but I am not sure of that. I could perhaps even believe that excuse, if it was not for the hundreds of other examples of disingenuous behaviour I have had the displeasure to observe.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 15, 2022:

@skado No I am not very busy, such meetings are very rare, such people are very rare, only three so far, and of course it never works, but there is no alternative. As for how I verified it. That is is very simple. You said you did not remember denying being an appologist, so I stirred up a little ire, and lo, you did remember it. That made a second untruth, in one day. ( The ad hominem did its work, you must use the right bait in your trap ).

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 15, 2022:

@skado I normally try to lead them to the mirror, because I think that that is the best humanity.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 15, 2022:

@skado That I am dealing with a person who does not understand or appreciate, the idea of personal or intellectual integrity.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 15, 2022:

@skado By your position, am I to take that you mean your core ideas ?

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 15, 2022:

@skado But I have just verified them. You asked for the evidence, and I thank you for then supplying it yourself, which saved me the trouble.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@skado Then I will take it that since you refer to someone accusing you of being a "closeted apologist" , and since I presume that you denied it, I will present your last statement as evidence, that you have denied being an apologist. ( The qualifier "closeted" being of no relevance in this instance.) And if you did not deny it then, my first point that it as logically inconsistent with one of your stated definitions of 'religion' still stands.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@skado The supply the link to the "closeted apologist", and I will take a look at it, and decide if I am mistaken.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@skado Ad homs are sometimes the ideas which really matter, especially when you wish to offer help. You no full well that you were attempting to make a snowball on me, if you resort to that, do you really expect any better.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@skado Memory loss can be a truly terrible affliction. If that is the case then perhaps you should see a doctor. If lying, then I have no intention of doing your homework.

“A hypocrite is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then stand on the stump ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 14, 2022:

There is another kind of politician ?

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@FrayedBear You could try the transfer vote. Instead of first past the post for each candidate, each constituency is made, say five times larger, and the first five go through, but instead of each successful candidate getting one equal vote in the legislature, each one gets the same number of votes as those cast for them. In the modern world with computers, the maths is no problem. And the bonus is you can't gerymander the voting by changing the geographical boundaries of the constituencies, since that would make no difference. You could also add a second chamber where experts could speak, but voting was in the hands of randomly selected jurors, quite a lot say two hundred at least, who would be changed every few weeks. They would be given some powers to regulate the elected first chamber.

“A hypocrite is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then stand on the stump ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 14, 2022:

There is another kind of politician ?

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@FrayedBear We always have to be subjected to the "best of bad options". Since there is no such thing a perfection. I can go into my garden and pick the very best flower to put in a vase, but even though it is the very best it will still be the best of the bad option, because it is bound to have some blemish. There are no absolutes, just as there is no absolute line between democracy and tyranny, all states are to some degree democratic and to some degree tyrannical, it is just that some states are more democratic and less tyrannical than others.

“A hypocrite is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then stand on the stump ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 14, 2022:

There is another kind of politician ?

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@FrayedBear Yes I have often thought that a none, would be a good idea, and if the nones were the largest vote, then it would force a rerun with different candidates. But that could be an improvemnt to democracy, and the lack of it does not disprove democracy.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

@skado We have been here before, and if you remember, you described religion, at that time, as for you a synonym, for the greater part of human culture. I describe it for me, as a synonym for the fallacy called, the argument from authority, especially when that authority is not supported by evidence, but only by things such as tradition or supernatural belief, which is probably close enough to the popular definition of religion, to not usually require a qualifying statement when I use it. However I do think that yours should, since it deviates so far from the popular definition that it would seem disingenuous to use it without explaining it each time. The other problem I have with your choice is that it does not match with your claim that you are not an apologist. Since if you define religion as a synonym for human culture, and you certainly, like most people, support some parts of human culture , including apologetically, as I have often witnessed, then that would make you a religious apologist. While if you claim that you are not an apologist because you oppose only, literal fundamentalism, which is though a subset of culture. Then you are flip flopping between two definitions. Sorry but that is trying to have it both ways. And honesty would at least require that you state clearly, with a qualifying statement, each time you use the word which one you are using. I know that that is a big burden, but that is what you get if you deviate from the widely understood definitions.

I'd be happier living in a society not dominated by religion, but I also believe that freedom of ...

p-nullifidian comments on Mar 13, 2022:

As a nullifidian and anti-religionist, I long for the day when organized religions, as we see them in action today, are a thing of the past. It’s not that I want to limit Freethought, or attempt to control people’s minds. That’s what religion is there to do. No, I would just be happy to have ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

Good point, but in the long term of course political kowtowing and political involvement, will probably do more harm than good to religion. Because religions become seen as just an arm of the state, and tainted with the sins of politics, and holding a cruel, unjust or distasteful view, does not make you half as unpopular as being able and willing to enforce it does. I think that one of the reasons that religion is so much more popular in the US than over here in Europe is because you have the sepparation of church and state, which works in religions favour, where we often have state churches which chokes it.

Survival even when you are not supposed to. [youtube.com]

waitingforgodo comments on Mar 13, 2022:

A thing of beauty is a joy for ever: Its loveliness increases; it will never Pass into nothingness; but still will keep A bower quiet for us, and a sleep From Endymion by John Keats https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44469/endymion-56d2239287ca5

Fernapple replies on Mar 14, 2022:

Thank you, it is a long time since I last heard/read that.

Hello.

skado comments on Mar 12, 2022:

I recommend not drumming up hate.

Fernapple replies on Mar 13, 2022:

@skado No just forest fire control officers.

Alien intelligence: the extraordinary minds of octopuses and other cephalopods: [theguardian.

dalefvictor comments on Mar 12, 2022:

Alien intelligence is going to be so different from what we do that it will be hard to study as we will jot have the language to discuss the topic. The fact that an octopus has its brain in the parts of its body is kind of like what we have when we get really good at doing certain tasks. We call it ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 13, 2022:

There is a lot of evidence that we too have intelligence not based in the brain, but in our case in the alimentary canal. Because our gut probably evolved even before we had things like a head and eyes, and the neural networks there, had to perform certain logic functions, long before we thought of understanding the outside world. So our gut does things like deciding how long different foods will need to be digested, when to demand extra blood flow from the heart to process it, what chemicals to use and when and when to push the waste out, etc. without our brian even being involved.

Hello.

skado comments on Mar 12, 2022:

I recommend not drumming up hate.

Fernapple replies on Mar 13, 2022:

@skado While I agree with where you are coming from , I dont think that the anology really works , and there is some justification in KKGator's comment. You can. "Fight fire with fire." and a "controlled burn" is a successful tactic used by those who do. Also the "hate the idea, love its victim" comes into it. However see my above.

Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it. Christopher Hitchens

hankster comments on Mar 12, 2022:

sounds kinda convenient or opportunistic of hitchens to me. decency and selfishness alike are human behaviors that have naught to do with religion. Hitchens just wants to deny religion any claim to the good morality in a human. so what gets the immorality blame? same thing, being human.

Fernapple replies on Mar 13, 2022:

@skado Yes as you say. "Humans were decent to kin and to certain others who were viewed as potential allies, but were not, and still are not (by and large) to strangers or people who have different colored skin or sexual practices and so on. Humans need additional persuasion to do that. " And that is why we have nation states, international institutions and law, racial and sexual equality pressure groups, and secular charities etc. And why religion, which was set up to forward none of those justifiable things, finds itself a natural role only in opposing them, and supporting those who wish only to foster racial, sexual hate a zenophobia etc.. Yes It does some good by the way, but that fades fast now. Because the good causes are only incidental asides to religion, whose main purpose is to foster narcissism, and because people can easily see that other institutions do those jobs more effectively without the extra baggage, that even the best intentions of the religions bring with them. And even before that, the additional pressure to be kind and moral to strangers, and to view others as potential allies, came far more from practical sollutions to practical problems, such as trade networks and the need for agricultual irrigation, than it ever did from religion. And perhaps most of all, simply as a side effect of the technology called language. Which enabled us to communicate sympathy for and the understanding of others, far beyond physical contact.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 13, 2022:

@skado I am sorry to say that I do not think that you have understood the relevant evolutionary psychology, at all. Certainly religion did help to address the mismatch, and certainly it was needful to create some, "thou shalt nots" . But that would have occurred anyway, with or without religion, because people do fulfil their own needs, and there is quite a bit of evidence that religion, at least as a thing separate from tribe and state, was quite late into the game of ethics. Only taking up the business of morality in imitation of the nation states, when it saw that there was power and profit to be gained. Certainly the best known set of, "thou shalt not", in the western world are clearly plagiarised from earlier state legal systems, and in conventional history it has always been universally accepted that early religion was mainly amoral. While in the world in which we have lived for the last ten thousand years or more, the nation states and the civic institutions have been much more proactive, more progressive and done a much better job, in the field of moral guidance than the religious institutions. I live in a country where religion has faded much more into the background than it has in yours, and the societal and moral progress that has been made in that time has been massive to an astonishing extent. While one of the few things that have held that moral progress back, has been resistance from the ultra conservative religions. One of the main problems with religion is not just, to quote, "horrible things the new atheists rightly complain about" but the fact that they act as breaks on moral progress and lower the moral standard. While it is also obvious that secular charities and other such institutions, do a much better job, of influencing the national moral compass, and holding the state accountable than the churches, in part because they are not burdened by ritual, and in part because they have far greater unity of purpose. Accountability is not just a check upon institutions and and a way of testing the veracity of their ideologies, but also a great driving force for the development and spreading of ideas, and institutions which lack it are doomed to become irrelevant, or merely criminal. The main drivers of early cooperation between peoples beyond the extended family, were forces outside of the control of both nation states and religions, ( Especially organized religions, which probably were only themselves products of nation states.) Both agriculture, of which the earliest forms were heavily dependent on irrigation, as needfully a cooperative venture, and trade networks, depended upon agreed moral and ethical frameworks. And they therefore, probably forced the development of both the nation states and the organized religions, in ...

Trends, Looking back.

Toonman comments on Mar 12, 2022:

Religion has never been beneficial, because it has kept us mired in superstition, irrationality and truncated our intellects. Could you imagine how far along we'd be societally and scientifically if the dark ages never happened?

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

@racocn8 Agreed.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

@skado If you know of any such functions please list them, for I can think of none.

Trends, Looking back.

Garban comments on Mar 12, 2022:

I concur that this is the trail we have cut though history wearing the yoke of religion. But I don’t think it was our only option, not implying that’s your conclusion. I would add one word at the end of your final sentence “AGAIN” Thanks, now what do we about it?🤔

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

@Garban Yep.

Trends, Looking back.

Garban comments on Mar 12, 2022:

I concur that this is the trail we have cut though history wearing the yoke of religion. But I don’t think it was our only option, not implying that’s your conclusion. I would add one word at the end of your final sentence “AGAIN” Thanks, now what do we about it?🤔

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

We may have to do nothing more than let it die. As the fundamentalists increacingly take over, they drive away the moderate majority, that leaves it even more in the hands of the extremists , which in turn, turns off and drives away, more moderates, and so on. In the end only a small rump who are of no account in mainstream society remain.

Trends, Looking back.

ASTRALMAX comments on Mar 12, 2022:

The Crusades were military campaigns sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church during the High and Late Middle Ages . Early alchemists, physicists and astronomers like Galileo Galilei had their lives threatened by the Catholic Church. They have never been paragons of reason, instead, they prefer ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

Very true .

Trends, Looking back.

Toonman comments on Mar 12, 2022:

Religion has never been beneficial, because it has kept us mired in superstition, irrationality and truncated our intellects. Could you imagine how far along we'd be societally and scientifically if the dark ages never happened?

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

Yes you can make that argument, and I for one would not want to dispute with you. But it is as they say, "an ill wind", and human life and cultures are such complex things, that it is hard to imagine anything that could affect them which would not have a few benefits, if only by accident, however bad the overall effect. So that I was presenting a, best case argument, for religions effect in the past, in order to better show its direction.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

@Rossy92 We are on much the same page.

I posted this in natural history, but thought you may like it too.

Triphid comments on Mar 11, 2022:

Nice to see, I'm at present devising a way to ensure that frogs can actually use my garden pond again to breed in and I can stop the birds and stray cats from from eating both the frogs and their eggs and tadpoles as well. It worked great UNTIL the lilies I grew in the pond were STOLEN a few years ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

@Triphid Good idea.

I posted this in natural history, but thought you may like it too.

Triphid comments on Mar 11, 2022:

Nice to see, I'm at present devising a way to ensure that frogs can actually use my garden pond again to breed in and I can stop the birds and stray cats from from eating both the frogs and their eggs and tadpoles as well. It worked great UNTIL the lilies I grew in the pond were STOLEN a few years ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

Yes they like a few plants for the tadpole to hide under from the hot sun and predators. You could try some cheaper plants that are not a tempting to theives.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

@skado, @Rossy92 I think that you are very correct about the critics of the new atheists. But I do not agree with you completely about gods and the supernatural. I think that they are only a tiny part of the problem with religion, and not the most important one. ( Some religions do not even have gods after all, like Buddhism and Scientology. ) The main harm in religion is a cultural one. Which is the problem of claiming authority without justification. Whether that comes from an old book which claims to contain all wisdom, from ritual, from tradition, or supposed racial superiority. To claim authority in most realms of life, you have to justify that authority in some way: in philosophy and maths by logical rigour and the reviews of your peers, in science by those, plus experimental evidence, in politics by earning the support of your pears and public approval, in engineering by making things that work, etc. . But in religion all you have to do is say. "I believe." And you can immediately tap into all that authority, that comes from tradition, ritual, respected old sources and yes, even god. And that is especially useful if you want to promote ideas, like say racism or sexism or your own narcissism, which can not get past the tests required by all those other institutions, or at least not without a lot of effort and deception. And I do not need to tell you what sort of person, has ideas that will not pass those tests, and wants to support them with authority they can gain without cost or effort.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 12, 2022:

@skado No, I conclude that religions, like all human institutions, are a complex mixture of beneficial and harmful parts, sometimes connected inseparably and sometimes not. And that in the deep past they were probably very beneficial, but became gradually more harmful over time until today they probably do as much harm as good, and will probably become almost completely harmful in the near future, but also probably hopefully fade in importance. That is not however a plain path, there have been times when religion was very good, and times when it was not. In part because, one of religions great strengths, is as an alternative voice to the nation state. So that it hit an especially low period, when, during classical times it became little more than a number of profit addicted cults, almost entirely subservient to and supportive of the nation states. Which failing on its part, led almost certainly in part to the invention of classical philosophy, to compensate for religions inability to provide needed wisdom and ask pertinant questions. Rome then fell for many reasons, but in part because fanatical new monotheist cults, which at first arose to address the growing rich poor divide, in the end became anti-intellectual because philosophy was seen as elitist, and having gained as share of power, decided to side the the increasingly corrupt state against secular thinking. In the dark ages which followed however, when the nation state became little more than badly organized armed thuggery, religion had perhaps its greatest high spot, becoming the resort of those who opposed the culture of violent mindlessness, and sought to keep alive a vestige of knowledge and humanity. By the middle ages however the nation states began to become real communities again, and religion, once more became a servant of the state, trying to gain a share of the power and wealth which now could be gained again without resort to violence, in consequence it became corrupt and anti intellectual once more and forcing the initiation of the Renaissance, the rebirth of secular thought. Now however, in part because of the revived interest in democracy, but for other deeper reasons, the nation states of the West and most of the developing world, see their main function as human welfare, and the protection of human rights, supported by the increasing power of secular charities. ( America and the other fading super power, are no doubt, to different degrees, exceptions, but it is a bad idea to see things just from a purely local perspective. ) Then as the nation states increasingly take on those roles, and see welfare as the basis of both their power and prestige, then religion if it is to offer anything at all, must turn to those who oppose welfare and rights, and, or, fade into being a ...

Right-wing pastor attributes climate science to Satan and blames environmentalists for Ukraine ...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Mar 11, 2022:

Do I laugh or do I cry? Both?

Fernapple replies on Mar 11, 2022:

If you cry, don't use paper tissues, as they cause you to change race.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 11, 2022:

@skado I did not say that all interpretations are wrong and criminal, did you not read my first paragraph, which gives an example of a very good one. Specifically to pre-concede that point. Which I will repeat. "Some few of the stories may depend upon literal interpretation, including sometimes for the harm they do, but only a very few, for most, literal or metaphorical is irrelevant, and they are just as bad or good either way. ( If I take the 6th commandment literally, it is probably a good thing that I do not murder people. While if I take it metaphorically, that I should not terminate good things wilfully for poor or selfish gain, then it is still, probably for the most part, a good one.) "

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 11, 2022:

@Rossy92 Dawkins has his limitations and has made errors. Who has not ? But the claim that the era of the new atheists is over, in the sense that they have been shown to be making false speculations, and their ideas can now be forgotten, is simply an example of echo chamber thinking. It naturally takes time for the opponents of any ideology, to form a concerted rebuttal, and so a lot of people from different backgrounds, including science, religion, apologetics and political social science, etc. who had issues with the New Atheists, eventually came together and formed an echo chamber, and they took to using Dawkins as the figure head of all that they opposed. It also takes time for rebuttals to be answered, it will probably take time for the supporters of Dawkins and the new atheists to regroup, and start the pushback. This has happened before, in Natural History for example. A large movement with its own echo chamber was formed in the late nineteenth century, to oppose Darwin's thinking, and by the nineteen thirties Darwin was quite out of fashion, and being declared redundant and out of date by many. Including scientists who really should have known better. But of course the personal benefits of going with fashion, and joining the echo chamber are very great and carry a lot of weight, especially for those with families to feed. Eventually though realism began to come forward and the pushback took place. So that now Darwinian thinking is once more regarded as the core of biology, and it is many of the fashionable anti -Darwinian biologists and naturalists who are forgotten. Having said that, there is a lot to be said which is good on both sides, and like many who invent new ways of looking at things, the New Atheists were probably very proud of their ideas, they were their babies after all. So that they were bound to overestimate their scope and importance.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 11, 2022:

@skado Some few of the stories may depend upon literal interpretation, including sometimes for the harm they do, but only a very few, for most, literal or metaphorical is irrelevant, and they are just as bad or good either way. ( If I take the 6th commandment literally, it is probably a good thing that I do not murder people. While if I take it metaphorically, that I should not terminate good things wilfully for poor or selfish gain, then it is still, probably for the most part, a good one.) Yet for most for those myths that can be, or should certainly be, interpreted metaphorically, it depends entirely upon who it is doing the interpreting, which is why, since they are so much more dependent upon interpretation, the metaphorical are by far the most beloved of the criminal and evil of intent. As an example. For every one of the rare fundamentalists who takes the story of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, absolutely literally, and wonder if Adam and Eve used a stone or metal knife to peal it, there are a hundred preachers who take it metaphorically. Indeed nearly everyone, even those sitting in the pews understands that that one is a metaphor. Yet it can still be read metaphorically, to mean that our shared religion, and subculture, believes in and approves of the idea of original inherited sin, that humans are born broken, and in need of the repair services only a deep committed involvement in that sub-culture can give. Either literally or metaphorically it is still a method and aid for the criminally intended to entrap people, for their own profit and gain. While the academic view that the history of theology , inculding religious metaphor, is a usful tool to understand the human psyche, is of little interest on an atheist/agnostic site. Since most people are concerned for the vast majority of their time with the immediate, large impact of religion as practiced today on the world they encounter daily, even specialists in the field have to go outside on to the streets some of the time.

This logical contradiction has been around a long time but nobody wants to put their imaginary god ...

OldMetalHead comments on Mar 10, 2022:

Are there any biblical verses that explicitly reference Satan torturing souls in Hell?

Fernapple replies on Mar 10, 2022:

Certainly when Jesus refers to the tares being cast into the fire, which is his metaphor for the death of evil doing people, there is nothing in it which hints at anything other than a single few seconds of total destruction.

Breaking News...

Fernapple comments on Mar 10, 2022:

In Britain we have a different strategy. We will send a lot of aid, and weapons, but we will just wait until the war is over before we send it. Then when it gets to the French border, with the wrong papers of course, we will just let it sit there for ten months, and then say. "Well its not ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 10, 2022:

@Petter Yes well, I sometimes overstate my case for the sake of bitter irony, which is my favourite, we are not all that bad really. (Well apart from the people around Boris.)

Piety requires us to honor truth above our friends. - Aristotle

zeuser comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I looked up a couple of definitions of piety. I am not sure Aristotle had these same definitions in mind when he said this, and who knows what the translator did to the original meaning. But the consensus definition is something like this: a belief or point of view that is accepted with unthinking ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 10, 2022:

Yes, it is exactly the sort of statement, which is probably almost impossible to translate from one language to another. I am not even sure that "piety" even has a single hard and fast meaning in modern English, it could for example mean reverance for truth, or honesty in other words, which would alter the meaning a lot.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Rossy92 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

I'm so glad you asked. He promoted the concept of infinite punishment for finite crime, encouraged followers to abandon their families in pursuit of reward in an imaginary world which never came to be as he promised (Second Coming), upheld inhumane the laws of the Old Testament such as slavery, ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 10, 2022:

@skado The issue of literalism / mythology is irrelevant, since the moral example stands whether it be the literal account, a mythological metaphor or an influential fiction.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Toonman comments on Mar 10, 2022:

Yes. He disses his mother. He rejects his family. He hates Samaritans. He tells his followers that anybody not with him is against him. He murders a fig tree because he's hungry for figs which are out of season. He encourages his followers to not wash their hands before eating. ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 10, 2022:

That is a really good list, well done.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Mar 9, 2022:

Xtians argue that Jesus was human, but if he were, he was subject to the same flaws/sins that humans are subject to. He said that to think of adultery/sex was to commit it. Jesus obviously understood the act of sex; when he considered it, did that not make him a fornicator? Even if he did not ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 10, 2022:

Can a human even willingly control their thoughts anyway. It is in some ways, once more , about that boring old issue that the religious can not get over, free will. And even if there was such a thing as free will, it certainly stops at actions, and does not extend to thought.

Unbelievers. Are there any moral flaws in Jesus?

Fernapple comments on Mar 9, 2022:

The question does not seem to be very clearly put, since you list at least five Jesus persons: the biblical, the Roman, the Gnostic, the one who is identical to Yahweh and the possible original one behind the myth. Does the question in the first line refer to all of them, or only one ? As to ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 9, 2022:

@Garban Thank you, I hope you will not be disappointed.

A little knowledge: " When would you estimate the "dumbing down” of America began?

Fernapple comments on Mar 7, 2022:

No. I think that that may contribute to the Dunning-Kruger effect, and may make ignorance more bold and visible, but it does not add to the sum total of it. I think that it really begins when those who control power and wealth, began to lose faith in education, as a generator of more power and ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 8, 2022:

@fishline79 No certainly not. You are big enough to take the punches and the prizes, and treat those two imposters just the same.

A little knowledge: " When would you estimate the "dumbing down” of America began?

Fernapple comments on Mar 7, 2022:

No. I think that that may contribute to the Dunning-Kruger effect, and may make ignorance more bold and visible, but it does not add to the sum total of it. I think that it really begins when those who control power and wealth, began to lose faith in education, as a generator of more power and ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 8, 2022:

@fishline79 That is all very true.

Sometimes being pretty can get you all you want. Until you become a pain that is. [youtube.com]

Reignmond comments on Mar 7, 2022:

Here in the US and Canada we have 2 native species. As a State Naturalist I used to show kids how to collect a bunch of the seeds and eat them, they taste like walnuts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_capensis

Fernapple replies on Mar 8, 2022:

@Reignmond Most are also fairly poisonous, it is only Matteuccia struthiopteris and one or two others, that can be eaten. You probably know that, but just in case anyone else is reading, and is tempted to do something silly, it needs to be mentioned.

Sometimes being pretty can get you all you want. Until you become a pain that is. [youtube.com]

Reignmond comments on Mar 7, 2022:

Here in the US and Canada we have 2 native species. As a State Naturalist I used to show kids how to collect a bunch of the seeds and eat them, they taste like walnuts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_capensis

Fernapple replies on Mar 8, 2022:

@Reignmond I am still hoping to have enough Matteuccia fern one day for a meal of croziers, called I think, fiddle heads, in the North American food industry, but it is not native to Britain and my naturalized stock only seems to build up slowly.

Sometimes being pretty can get you all you want. Until you become a pain that is. [youtube.com]

Reignmond comments on Mar 7, 2022:

Here in the US and Canada we have 2 native species. As a State Naturalist I used to show kids how to collect a bunch of the seeds and eat them, they taste like walnuts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_capensis

Fernapple replies on Mar 8, 2022:

I did not know they were edible, that is really interesting thanks.

Why one health problem can make another worse.

ASTRALMAX comments on Mar 7, 2022:

Broadly speaking, true, however, from my own experience I do not tend to eat more if I do not get enough sleep. Fine as long the explanation is not used to justify pigging out. :)

Fernapple replies on Mar 7, 2022:

I do eat more if I lack sleep, because I find that it is harder to avoid eating out of bordom, and therefore not overeating when lacking sleep requires a lot of hard concentration. Which of course you can not give unless fresh and alert.

There Is No Way Back {Part 1)

Fernapple comments on Mar 7, 2022:

Would we now be having a war in the Ukraine, if the West and the world as a whole, had stood up to Putin in Syria ? And if not Syria or the Ukraine then where next ? But of course the place where winning the war really matters, is in Russia. The Russians have a long tradition for the of disposal...

Fernapple replies on Mar 7, 2022:

@Buttercup All very true.

STFU.

Fernapple comments on Mar 7, 2022:

True. But still I wonder, if the wholesale price of gas only equals about one percent of my total monthly gas bill. Why is it that when the wholesale price of gas goes up by half, my bill goes up by nearer to fifty percent, than by half of one percent ? Actually I also wonder why I am paying one...

Fernapple replies on Mar 7, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX Exactly. No, at best they do a shabby job of keeping the mains going, I suspect that there are huge profits being made out of price fixing. But if they were half as bad as the plastic payment card rip-off I would complain, people who take card payments, pay often as much as one and a half percent for each transaction, plus monthly rentals for the terminals, of thirty pounds or more, which itself would more than pay for the tiny factions of pence it costs to send payment messages round the wires. So that every card transaction effectively pays a tax which goes directly into a bank account on an offshore tax haven. People keep making more and more payments by card, instead of cash, and then wonder why the rich/poor divide keeps getting wider.

“The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 6, 2022:

Practice helps a lot, many who hold to beliefs which require high levels of cognitive dissonance, get to be very good at fooling themselves. Which eventually becomes a problem that extends far beyond the initial, acceptance of the doctrine around religious belief uncritically, which is why religion ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 6, 2022:

@p-nullifidian You are not alone in that feeling.

“The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 6, 2022:

Practice helps a lot, many who hold to beliefs which require high levels of cognitive dissonance, get to be very good at fooling themselves. Which eventually becomes a problem that extends far beyond the initial, acceptance of the doctrine around religious belief uncritically, which is why religion ...

Fernapple replies on Mar 6, 2022:

@Marionville Well yes, though for the sake of my comment I am including, " accept all the doctrine around religious belief uncritically" under the bigger group of lying, but that would be better. Will change it.

“Putin has become the world’s most toxic man,” Howard W.

Fernapple comments on Mar 4, 2022:

"Some parts of Poland hold German speaking people, therefore Poland is part of Germany." A. Hitler. "Some parts of the Ukraine hold Russian speaking people, therefore the Ukraine is part of Russia." V. Putin. No further comment from me needed.

Fernapple replies on Mar 5, 2022:

@Matias That is true .

“Putin has become the world’s most toxic man,” Howard W.

Fernapple comments on Mar 4, 2022:

"Some parts of Poland hold German speaking people, therefore Poland is part of Germany." A. Hitler. "Some parts of the Ukraine hold Russian speaking people, therefore the Ukraine is part of Russia." V. Putin. No further comment from me needed.

Fernapple replies on Mar 5, 2022:

@Matias Yes but you have misunderstood. I am not saying that Hitler invaded Poland to liberate Danzig, anymore than Putin invaded Ukraine to liberate the Russian enclaves. What I am saying is that they both used the same, "liberate our people", excuse/lie in part to justify their actions.

“What concerns me is that man, unable to articulate, to express himself adequately, reverts to ...

Fernapple comments on Mar 3, 2022:

People reach for their guns, when they know they can not win the argument. ( Can't remember who first said that. )

Fernapple replies on Mar 5, 2022:

@MsKathleen That is to a large degree true. Indeed many would say that they wish the US was more proactive in the world. Would there now be Russian troops in Ukraine, if the West, not just the US, but including them, had stood up to Putin in Syria ? And a lot of anti US feeling is directly tracable to Russia and China, Putin and many like him do not like or understand democracy. Putin especially it seems, really does believe his own myth, that democracy, especially in Europe is just a sham, and that Europe is really run by secret networks of American spies. That is the propaganda that he preaches at home and exports when he can. In part that is the old tactic used by all broken tyranies, off,; if you can't fix the problems at home, blame foreigners, and if you have to start a war abroard. Such a large amount of propaganda pushed all the time, is bound to have an effect, even overseas, and when you have set up the idea of a pirate state causing trouble, then of course other broken tyranies are bound to see an easy way to unload the blame for their own failings. Having said that, American policy abroard is often very short term and clumsy. In Libya topple Kadi, yes good idea. But then abandon Libya to its own devices, do little or nothing to help rebuild the country, or assist it in establishing a stable government, because that is long term, costly and boring, toppling an unpoppular dictator is worth some votes at home, but long slow unspectacular rebuilding projects, don't earn any votes with the largely indifferent public who will forget where Lybia is, when once the shooting is over. In many ways it is just the same idea as all the failed dictators, foreign policy as a distraction for the people, from failings at home.

“Putin has become the world’s most toxic man,” Howard W.

Fernapple comments on Mar 4, 2022:

"Some parts of Poland hold German speaking people, therefore Poland is part of Germany." A. Hitler. "Some parts of the Ukraine hold Russian speaking people, therefore the Ukraine is part of Russia." V. Putin. No further comment from me needed.

Fernapple replies on Mar 4, 2022:

@Paul4747 It has been pointed out that having evaded military service by spending his whole life in the KGB, he has absolutely no military understanding from experience or training, and he is a very bad historian, so does not have a historian's perspective of warfare either. Not someone you really want commanding your armed forces.

Saw this tonight in my local 7-Eleven. Has there ever been a more ironic product?

dalefvictor comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Cyanide is a organic product, saying something is organic actually tells you nothing.

Fernapple replies on Mar 4, 2022:

@Apunzelle Yes that is what I thought you meant.

“Putin has become the world’s most toxic man,” Howard W.

Fernapple comments on Mar 4, 2022:

"Some parts of Poland hold German speaking people, therefore Poland is part of Germany." A. Hitler. "Some parts of the Ukraine hold Russian speaking people, therefore the Ukraine is part of Russia." V. Putin. No further comment from me needed.

Fernapple replies on Mar 4, 2022:

@Matias I was though only looking at that small part of the excuse, not the bigger picture, but even so I think that the difference is trivial. Because whatever legaleez claims or justifications there may be about what belongs to who, the bottom, they both overlook the bottom line, that the only natural justice is concerned with the lands belonging to the people who live there. Which was the point that both were trying to subvert by claiming that minorities rights over wealm those of majorities. Especially, since Hitler was also looking back historically to the Gothic Knights claims in Poland. "Danzig is a German city and wishes to belong to Germany. According to my conviction Poland was not a giving party in this solution at all but only a receiving party, because it should be beyond all doubt that Danzig will never become Polish." A. H. 1939

Saw this tonight in my local 7-Eleven. Has there ever been a more ironic product?

dalefvictor comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Cyanide is a organic product, saying something is organic actually tells you nothing.

Fernapple replies on Mar 4, 2022:

I think that is the point she is trying to make, it is just not very clearly articulated.

Mornington Crescent anyone?

Fernapple comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Kew. (Without the gardens. See if you can get round that one smart ass.)

Fernapple replies on Mar 3, 2022:

@MattHardy Marylebone.

Mornington Crescent anyone?

Fernapple comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Kew. (Without the gardens. See if you can get round that one smart ass.)

Fernapple replies on Mar 3, 2022:

@MattHardy Got you, Elephant and Castle.

Mornington Crescent anyone?

Fernapple comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Kew. (Without the gardens. See if you can get round that one smart ass.)

Fernapple replies on Mar 3, 2022:

@anglophone OK I think you got me. Its hard to get more than two steps away from Mornington Crescent, even though Battersea Power Station does allow me the reverse one way street following the a wild card rule. So I will play wild card North London Line reverse Paddington Station.

Mornington Crescent anyone?

Fernapple comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Kew. (Without the gardens. See if you can get round that one smart ass.)

Fernapple replies on Mar 3, 2022:

@anglophone Yes, it is not very sporting at this stage, but I am not ashamed to play the slide rule. So. Parliament Square.

Mornington Crescent anyone?

Fernapple comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Kew. (Without the gardens. See if you can get round that one smart ass.)

Fernapple replies on Mar 3, 2022:

@anglophone Great that could be a slip. Because after two double word names in succession, I can use the double words equal double play rule, which gets me to. Hyde Park, and Hyde Park Corner. Which is a triple, so the only way to get back to a double is with a double compound combination.

Mornington Crescent anyone?

Fernapple comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Kew. (Without the gardens. See if you can get round that one smart ass.)

Fernapple replies on Mar 3, 2022:

@anglophone Shit, I knew someone would think of that one. OK Grosvenor square.

Religion gravely stunts your growth

CuddyCruiser comments on Mar 3, 2022:

Of what? Your penis?

Fernapple replies on Mar 3, 2022:

If that were even a rumour, the chuches would empty overnight forever.

"The Russian Orthodox Church has endorsed Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

Silver1wun comments on Mar 2, 2022:

Putin is acting in defense of his country and of ethnic Russians who've been attacked for the last five years by shelling. NATO was not to expand according to the Minsk agreement. We lied! these people now want to join NATO and EU and present a threat not only to Donbas, but the rest of Russia....

Fernapple replies on Mar 2, 2022:

Yes it is very true that the Ukraine has been fighting a long, and probably ruthless war against the pro Russian separatist factions, in the east. But the separatist movement itself originates to a large degree in Putins political manipulations of them, who, his government quite deliberately set up, with false promisses, so that they could become martyrs to justify his hostility, and his invasion extends into attacking millions of quite innocent civilians, who almost certainly are not Nazis, and live hundreds of miles from the Russian enclaves. Nor is there any doubt that if he did succeed in a full occupation, that he would then retreat to the borders of the Russian enclaves, but would instead remain, sitting on and opressing a vastly larger ethnic minority, one bad thing does not justify another, especially a far larger one. There are Nazi groups in the USA, as in most countries, by that logic a Russian invasion of the USA would be a justified and welcome thing.

Yes, Inability to Do Math Results in Being Deeply Religious

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 27, 2022:

It does not! I can do the basics, but I became an English teacher for a reason.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 Very true.

Yes, Inability to Do Math Results in Being Deeply Religious

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 27, 2022:

It does not! I can do the basics, but I became an English teacher for a reason.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 Yes very good, but we have to remember that you are only a sample of one, and exceptional people often do well across the range.

You bet your ass it’s harder to love! This murderer hides behind power and his own fears.

Fernapple comments on Feb 28, 2022:

Most narcissists are haunted by doubt, and are therefore driven to keep proving themselves, because no level of achievement is ever enough to squash that little nagging feeling, that they are really just a small person after all. So it is no surprise that all this comes just after Putin was ill, ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Sookiesue Yes I am not surprised she left him, I have heard that he was a habitual wife beater, back in the days when he was a KGB officer.

What's your reason?

Fernapple comments on Feb 28, 2022:

"Shocked and horrified by what religion does to people." Is missing.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Word Yes sometimes it is not too hard, but think of the resistence you will get from ultra right, white evangelical, racist, homophobic chuches, if you try to tell them they are not a religion. Especially if that means losing their tax breaks.