Is morality objective or subjective?

Fernapple comments on Feb 11, 2022:

I think that morality is subjective, until you have determined the objective or purpose to which you intend to put it. As in, a saw is just a piece of metal until you decide to cut some wood, then it becomes a wood saw. So morality is both subjective and objective, depending on whether you view it ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yes I am. It is a problem with the English language, a thing with which I have never had a great relationship. But I think that you have well understood my meaning, well done.

‘The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 10, 2022:

I always thought that the main danger actually comes from just simple incompetence. As in the old one about. "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be accounted for by simple stupidity."

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@FrayedBear My hot tap gives cold water, and the cold tap hot, the hand basin slopes the wrong way, (because he refused to measure the hight, said he could guess it. ) so that a puddle builds up at the back against the wall. ) I tried fixing that myself but he had taken too much of the hight of the pedastle to allow more than a partial fix.

Scientism is defined as the view that science and scientific method are the best or only objective ...

Charles1971 comments on Feb 10, 2022:

Okay... so... if we say that science does not hold all the answers... what are the alternatives? Religion? Metaphysics? Astrology? Voodoo? Homeopathy? The paranormal? Alchemy?

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@darren316 The whole point of science is that it accepts the idea of an unknown, that is how it differs in the most part from religion. Without the unkown there would be no point in doing scientific research and science would come to an end.

The bad news is that the effects of bad years may last for decades, the good news is that things ...

Canndue comments on Feb 10, 2022:

Remember…it is always darkest before it turns totally black…

Fernapple replies on Feb 10, 2022:

So true. Stocking up on candles this year.

‘The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 10, 2022:

I always thought that the main danger actually comes from just simple incompetence. As in the old one about. "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be accounted for by simple stupidity."

Fernapple replies on Feb 10, 2022:

@FrayedBear That's a mixture of apathy, incompetence and over confidence. The plumber who fitted my bathroom suffered from that big time, could have done it better myself, and I thought I knew nothing about plumbing.

“The great enemy of clear language is insincerity.

Fernapple comments on Feb 9, 2022:

A great truism. Word salad hides smelly fish.

Fernapple replies on Feb 9, 2022:

@Marionville I was thinking apologists with pseudo intellectual pretentions like Jordan Peterson, but I can go with yours too.

What is your fantasy wedding spot, if you were ever to get married or renew your vows?

Fernapple comments on Feb 9, 2022:

I think that I would lean on a competent organizer, like yourself, I could not do better than that. Though this spot on a nature reserve in Turkey, would be a good second best. ( My friend and traveling companion in the foreground.)

Fernapple replies on Feb 9, 2022:

@Julie808 It was winter of course so few leaves and flowers, I bet its even better in spring.

What is your fantasy wedding spot, if you were ever to get married or renew your vows?

Cast1es comments on Feb 8, 2022:

Now that we know where to find beautiful back drops for wedding photos , where should we go to find the absolutely best princes charming ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 9, 2022:

I'm in the UK. LOL

We don’t need God.

ASTRALMAX comments on Feb 8, 2022:

It is interesting but not surprising that you use the word ‘stalemate’ which a word that usually refers to games or game theory and a word frequently used in complaintive tone by those who feel that they should have won. “The game metaphor is used by the LSE and the Harvard Business School...

Fernapple replies on Feb 9, 2022:

@skado Yes but, science, moral philosophy, education systems, nation states, legal systems, and a basic ad populum conscensus are also all products of the human collective unconscious as well as the conscious. The big difference being that since they include the conscious as well, they also produce, and are expected to produce justifcations and reasons for their claims. They do not as religion does therefore provide a ready tool for the criminally immoral, to create a self justifiing system which can be use to support anything they wish.

We don’t need God.

Fernapple comments on Feb 8, 2022:

First I am convinced, that a single overarching morality for everyone, or even a single way of achieving that, would be a bad thing, because there is nothing healthier than free debate. And the gods eye view, just moves the problem back one step. Because if people can't agree on right and wrong, ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 9, 2022:

@JeffMurray, @skado Reply to Jeffmurray. Yes I agree fully with that. Most people are moral by nature, and have a full set of moral instincts, like empathy, discomfort with dishonesty and revulsion at suffering, so they do not go arround raping, stealing and murdering or even want to, while the small number of individuals who are damaged or suffer a genetic weakness tend to be criminal anyway, regardless of the legal or religious institutions pronouncements on morality. Also skado's argument, confuses how we arrive at a moral philosophy as a society, with how we teach and enforce that moral code when once it is framed. I would hold that the state, the international community of states, the state's schools, and it legal systems are much better ways to teach and enforce morals than the churches, if only because they are institutions, larger, more complex and hopefully more under democratic control, therefore less likely to be corrupted by criminally intended groups and individuals. For example the USA recently survived, without a huge lot of difficulty, a coup attempt by a small group, would a church have survived so well, indeed I think that several churches have already fallen.

We don’t need God.

Fernapple comments on Feb 8, 2022:

First I am convinced, that a single overarching morality for everyone, or even a single way of achieving that, would be a bad thing, because there is nothing healthier than free debate. And the gods eye view, just moves the problem back one step. Because if people can't agree on right and wrong, ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 9, 2022:

@JeffMurray Yes I agree fully with that. Most people are moral by nature, and have a full set of moral instincts, like empathy, discomfort with dishonesty and revulsion at suffering, so they do not go arround raping, stealing and murdering or even want to, while the small number of individuals who are damaged or suffer a genetic weakness tend to be criminal anyway, regardless of the legal or religious institutions pronouncements on morality. Also skado's argument, confuses how we arrive at a moral philosophy as a society, with how we teach and enforce that moral code when once it is framed. I would hold that the state, the international community of states, the state's schools, and it legal systems are much better ways to teach and enforce morals than the churches, if only because they are institutions, larger, more complex and hopefully more under democratic control, therefore less likely to be corrupted by criminally intended groups and individuals. For example the USA recently survived, without a huge lot of difficulty, a coup attempt by a small group, would a church have survived so well, indeed I think that several churches have already fallen.

Baptisms invalid - priest used wrong words.

Fernapple comments on Feb 8, 2022:

The link is broken sorry. But based on your description, I would say that if the priest is a true literal believer himself then he has no choice, and he is at least honest, even if deluded. If he is not a true believer however, then he is committing a far worse act of dishonesty by leading ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 8, 2022:

@Druvius Thank you.

The end times for religion - Freethought Now

xenoview comments on Feb 7, 2022:

TLDRA!

Fernapple replies on Feb 8, 2022:

???????

Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 7, 2022:

Interesting view from a very interesting man. Not sure that I can really agree, since many equations made within mathematical models made at that time, have been subsequently proved by experiment and observation. While science does allow for the building of hypothesis, as long as they are subjected ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 7, 2022:

@yvilletom Yes but experimentalists often prove theorists ideas for them, there is a relationship as well as competition.

The apologist and the ax murderers accomplice.

Matias comments on Feb 6, 2022:

That´s a very Christian idea behind this story: that we are all sinners.

Fernapple replies on Feb 7, 2022:

@Matias That's fine, by me at least, though I know that some members here would not like that. I at least don't have a problem with that, only when people make claims that they are 'certain' that religion is a needed positive and there are no alternatives.

The apologist and the ax murderers accomplice.

AnonySchmoose comments on Feb 6, 2022:

IMO, the apologist is a hypocrite. If his religion has mainly good people, then he should accept responsibility for ensuring that religious people know the difference between literal belief/fundamentalism with its hating mentality and ethical belief with its reasoned behavior. The apologist implies...

Fernapple replies on Feb 7, 2022:

You are very correct, in fact I would say that a lot of apologetics is just the business of making a philosophy out of hypocracy. Great insight. Though I did not intend that the apologist in the story was the same person as the accomplice, or people having knowledge of each other, but rather two different people with the same faults, perhaps I should have made that more plain. Anyway your reading of it is great.

Mainly fun, but an interesting plant all the same. [youtube.com]

Lorajay comments on Feb 6, 2022:

I think I saw some when I went to the Arizona desert near lake Havasu but I thought they called him something else but I do remember people saying don't walk anywhere near them they will reach out and grab you.

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

Yes he went on to say that the buds come off, in order to get the plant spread, and showed a Pack Rat, I think, who used the buds as a sort of barbed fence to keep snake and other pedators out of its hole.

The apologist and the ax murderers accomplice.

Lorajay comments on Feb 6, 2022:

The people that do not address the root cause of these heinous acts help perpetuate them. A friend was saying he watched CNN's story about the Oklahoma City bombing. I still resent the fact that there was not more public outrage and analysis of the fact that the murderers were gun loving right wing ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

You take care of yourself, your country needs people like you.

The apologist and the ax murderers accomplice.

BufftonBeotch comments on Feb 6, 2022:

This is why I am not understanding why they are not charging all the j/6 seditionists with murder since people died. Normally if you even in the car if a felony happened and somebody died you are charged with murder as well as the person who fired the gun. Oh wait, they are all white.

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

Sad but true. I am sorry to say it, but the more I watch the news and the longer I spend on this site, the more I start to think that the US is really a very primitive society, which will have to start moving a lot faster if it is going to catch up with the rest of the developed world..

The apologist and the ax murderers accomplice.

racocn8 comments on Feb 6, 2022:

Well, there's the rub. One is a deluded psychopath. The apologist is a full blown sociopath who not only lacks any empathy, but is intent on gaining power derived from violence and wrongdoing. Sound familiar?

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

Yes very.

The apologist and the ax murderers accomplice.

Matias comments on Feb 6, 2022:

That´s a very Christian idea behind this story: that we are all sinners.

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

Sorry that was not really the intent, it was more to point out that there is a particular group who may be worse than we or they think. Perhaps I did not make myself plain, but I was trying to entertain as well.

"Behind every not so great man, is a really much better woman.

Robecology comments on Feb 6, 2022:

There you go again with calling yourself "stupid"....Please stop that? You are FAR from stupid.

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

Sorry, it is my English ironic pride, which is a bit pompus of me really. I will try to heed your advice.

The apologist and the ax murderers accomplice.

ChestRockfield comments on Feb 6, 2022:

Wrote this a long time ago. I think I even posted it here because I remember getting into a ridiculous argument with TMW (who I won't bother tagging because he refuses to talk to me anyway) about it. It is quite possible that religious moderates are not only part of the problem, but the biggest ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

That is very close to the point I was trying to make. But you do it better and more completely than me, though I was trying to entertain as well, which may be a compromise too far.

Morning all

Fernapple comments on Feb 6, 2022:

Sorry, not from the US. Who are the "blue stripe gang" please ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

@whiskywoman, @nogod4me Thank you, that is probably it, we have that here too, but with all the complex American symbolism like Red Hats going around, I was not sure.

Morning all

Fernapple comments on Feb 6, 2022:

Sorry, not from the US. Who are the "blue stripe gang" please ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

@whiskywoman Thanks anyway.

I haven’t posted here in ages, but I do stick around on several Athiest sites.

dumasarok comments on Feb 6, 2022:

Many self described atheists have never been Christian. I have never in my life had any theistic beliefs, Christian or otherwise. I personally prefer the term non-theist for myself. Why would you believe that the the term " ex- Christian" tells the entire story? Aren't you pre-supposing way too ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

@EyesThatSmile I am very glad you have found happiness, may it long continue.

I haven’t posted here in ages, but I do stick around on several Athiest sites.

dumasarok comments on Feb 6, 2022:

Many self described atheists have never been Christian. I have never in my life had any theistic beliefs, Christian or otherwise. I personally prefer the term non-theist for myself. Why would you believe that the the term " ex- Christian" tells the entire story? Aren't you pre-supposing way too ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

I think that she is only proposing to use it for herself.

What are the major differences between government - especially in a more ancient context - and ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 5, 2022:

I don't really know why you posted this as a question, since that seems to be quite a good summing up of the history anyway. Unless you are being purely rhetorical . I would perhaps however add that, religion was probably quite late on the scene when it came to making rules to live by. Firstly, ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 6, 2022:

@RussRAB Yes agriculture certainly played a major part, and especially towards the end, if you think about it irrigation, which was much needed in many of the often dry river valleys where the larger states often began. Since irrigation meant large scale planning and the allocation of both duties and rights. Irrigation may indeed have been the very first agricultural technology, even before ploughing and sowing, people may have noticed that pouring water from wells and rivers on to the dry ground, made more stuff grow, providing more green food and seeds for both humans and livestock as well as attracting wild game to hunt.

What are the major differences between government - especially in a more ancient context - and ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 5, 2022:

I don't really know why you posted this as a question, since that seems to be quite a good summing up of the history anyway. Unless you are being purely rhetorical . I would perhaps however add that, religion was probably quite late on the scene when it came to making rules to live by. Firstly, ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

@RussRAB I think you are making good progress with your thoughts. Another one that you may like to consider is the role played by trade in the building of early societies. Our instinctive moral frame work evolved, as I think most people would agree, to help improve the survival of extended families who shared genes in common. How did they then become extended into larger groupings ? I think that trade was probably was the thing which created the first social networks, emerging from the trade networks. For example. Say that the people who live on the beach start to trade some of their shells, used for tools and their fish, with the people who live in the hills, for their furs to keep warm in the winter. Then they will soon get to recognize individuals, knowing them and valuing them, especially if they trade fairly, as assets. Then the first time that, say a person from the beach sees a person from the hills in need, it could be hunger a threatening wild animal or some other danger, they will act. In part because they value a good trade partner as an asset, and in part because, through trade they have got to see this individual as literally, a familiar face, and therefore effectively an member of a now further extended family. So for the first time moral behaviour extends beyond the genetic family. I think that the role played by trade in the development of early society has not yet been fully realized.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 4, 2022:

I would also remind you that humans have a genetically evolved liking for high calorific foods. Because we evolved when calories were hard to come by. But that does not mean that we are obliged to eat large numbers of cheese burgers each day, that the people who do, are doing themselves or anyone ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

@skado Only trying to be helpful.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 4, 2022:

I would also remind you that humans have a genetically evolved liking for high calorific foods. Because we evolved when calories were hard to come by. But that does not mean that we are obliged to eat large numbers of cheese burgers each day, that the people who do, are doing themselves or anyone ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

@skado Using this post and your last as a quick sample, small of course, and being fairly subjective as to which replies counted on which side. Of those commentors who did not agree that religion has an evolutionary origin, (There were not many a lot were neutral and/or did not address the subject at all.) they recieved an average of about point nine likes, by my rough count. Whereas those, like some of mine, which agreed that religion has an evolutionary origin, got one point eight seven five likes on average. About two to one. It is a tiny sample of course but given that any post by you is likely to attract a larger number of negative viewers, just because its you, I think that is fairly good in favour of acceptance of the evolutionary origins. Though it is of course small and subjective, so no two people are likely to get the same figures.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Danny9 comments on Feb 4, 2022:

Well I believe that religion was a byproduct of human being themselves. It builds connection with in the tribe. Dancing and singing is also part of it. The spiritual events became more complicated and started adding harmful ceremonies and beliefs.

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

But are not hmans themselves products of evolution and their genes ?

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

xenoview comments on Feb 4, 2022:

Religion and gods are the tools used by religious conmen to get money and control people.

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

You are both quite correct, because that religion is part of an evolved mechanism, and also a tool used by conmen to get money and control, are not mutually exclusive.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 4, 2022:

I would also remind you that humans have a genetically evolved liking for high calorific foods. Because we evolved when calories were hard to come by. But that does not mean that we are obliged to eat large numbers of cheese burgers each day, that the people who do, are doing themselves or anyone ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

@skado Oh come on, I can't believe that you could seriously make that argument. Firstly because the individuals vers. universal, is a childish dichotomy, such as only twelve year old would use to try and wriggle round a criticism. Since anyone approaching adulthood would realize that the group "members" also includes the categories, majority, large majority and significant minority, and not expect to get away with such a pathetic excuse. And secondly of course posts like this, of which you have made several, are bound to attract the, probably small, even numerous, but loud minority who do oppose genetic predisposition. As well as some of those who simply do not understand it. In fact I would say that if I were writing a paper on how fallacies develop, I could do little better than to site these posts as perfect example of how confirmation bias is achieved.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 4, 2022:

I would also remind you that humans have a genetically evolved liking for high calorific foods. Because we evolved when calories were hard to come by. But that does not mean that we are obliged to eat large numbers of cheese burgers each day, that the people who do, are doing themselves or anyone ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

@skado That is very ironic given that this whole post is about straw-maning the members, as people who do not believe in genetics.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 4, 2022:

All things in human culture ultimately stem from evolved genetics. No problem with that. The important point to realize, is that that includes, atheist and agnostic views as well as all religious views. And since religious views include just about anything that you could possibly imagine, with no ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

@skado That is fair enough.

The evolved nature of human psychology is apparently such that most of us are predisposed to ...

hankster comments on Aug 11, 2021:

maybe religion played a part, but I'm figuring "money" was at the center of any "co-op" of human endeavor.

Fernapple replies on Feb 5, 2022:

I would say, trade, not money. Trade preceeds money, which is just there at first to enable trade, and probably began long before both money, before organized religion and long before organized religion saw that getting involved in moral issues was a route to profit and power.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 4, 2022:

All things in human culture ultimately stem from evolved genetics. No problem with that. The important point to realize, is that that includes, atheist and agnostic views as well as all religious views. And since religious views include just about anything that you could possibly imagine, with no ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

@skado PS. I am addressing your opinions not the science, so opinion is valid.

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Aaron70 comments on Feb 4, 2022:

The onus is on you to provide evidence of your argument, not the other way around butt munch….🤠

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

Very true. The old epistomological truth. "The burden of proof is with those making the claim."

In my continuing effort to understand why so many atheists and agnostics (the people one would ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 4, 2022:

All things in human culture ultimately stem from evolved genetics. No problem with that. The important point to realize, is that that includes, atheist and agnostic views as well as all religious views. And since religious views include just about anything that you could possibly imagine, with no ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

@skado My first line should make it clear that I do not consider it likely that any such papers exist, and if they did I, and you can find some, would remind you that the very first priciple of science for which I have the greatest respect, is that science can be wrong, which is the main reason why it deserves respect. My second reply explains quite clearly why I am not wasting time on that. And this is not oppinion just a correction of epistomology.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

AtheistInNC comments on Jan 31, 2022:

With the advent of technology, all the benefits of religion can be had WITHOUT religion now. The human race won't go extinct without religion at this point. We need to deep six every religion. The sooner the better. Religion kills.

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

@AtheistInNC You are right, but Skado is not a merely closet Christian, the direction in which he is trying to lead is a great deal darker even than that.

SCIENTISTS GENERALLY AGREE…

Toonman comments on Feb 3, 2022:

Notice how Skado clammed up the minute rational people chimed in?

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

Yes. Will message you.

"It is not so much our friends help, that helps us, as the confident knowledge that they will help ...

waitingforgodo comments on Feb 4, 2022:

Thanks for the inspiration to learn a little about Epicurus.

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

My pleasure.

It's been a tough winter but it's that time of year again where Canadian Gardeners start putting ...

AnneWimsey comments on Feb 4, 2022:

But, the snow will cushion your fall when you slip on the underlying ice! Such a whiner!

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

Yes but the wind blows the snow off the ice, so that you can land hard after all, and the snow piles up where you don't want it, so that you have to walk on the ice. And I love to whine.

"It is not so much our friends help, that helps us, as the confident knowledge that they will help ...

waitingforgodo comments on Feb 3, 2022:

The patron saint of "drunkards, whoremongers and gluttons" was more than just a pretty plate.

Fernapple replies on Feb 4, 2022:

He was indeed. And I am sorry to be a pedant, but in case some here should not spot your irrony. "The patron saint of drunkards, whoremongers and gluttons" idea, was a Later Christian propaganda originating in the time when Epicurian philosophy was still possing a threat to Christianity, and is quite the opposite of the truth. Epicurus lived and preached a life of almost extreme austerity, in which self indulgence was to be reduced to nothing, and which inspired the Christian Monastic and aethetic traditions. His main connection with pleasure was that under Epicurianism, misused pleasure was seen as the main source of misfortune, and the control of desire was seen as the main virtue. The emphasis on pleasure in the philosophy gave the early Christians however the tool they needed to do their usual trick of turning things upside down, to create a black propaganda, which survives to this day but is the exact opposite of the truth.

"It is not so much our friends help, that helps us, as the confident knowledge that they will help ...

waitingforgodo comments on Feb 3, 2022:

Struggling with dinner ... again. Start with a mirepoix of eudaimonic, ataraxia and aponia .

Fernapple replies on Feb 3, 2022:

I thought that I had achieved ataraxia and aponia and was practically eudaimonic, then I found this site and discovered that I may have an epithumia for taking hedone in murdering some of its members.

North Korea Hacked Him. So He Took Down Its Internet | WIRED

FvckY0u comments on Feb 2, 2022:

Very interesting article. Brings up the question that if the US government is attacked by a hacker working alone but is a citizen of say Russia does the US consider that a Russian attack? So in this case if NK is attacked by a citizen of the US does NK consider it a state sponsored attack? ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 3, 2022:

Future headline. "Toxin levels in hacker's car still too high, for safe investigation. Corroner said." LOL

North Korea Hacked Him. So He Took Down Its Internet | WIRED

Druvius comments on Feb 2, 2022:

I can see several problems with this. One, he's showing the North Koreans their vulnerabilities so they can improve their cyber defenses. Two, this is likely illegal. Three, I think North Korea is about the last country on the planet one would want to mess with. I also wonder if his story is even ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 3, 2022:

Future headline. "Toxin levels in hacker's car still too high, for safe investigation. Corroner said." LOL

Has anyone here visited the palace at Versailles? Interested in your impression

Mooolah comments on Feb 2, 2022:

I am confident that public toilets were installed since the 16th century. It was built without them & the debauchery which unfolded there made, for a most repugnant history, only bested by their lack of character.

Fernapple replies on Feb 3, 2022:

I am told that the chamber pots, were only changed/emptied twice per week. Can you imagine how it stank !

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

AtheistInNC comments on Jan 31, 2022:

With the advent of technology, all the benefits of religion can be had WITHOUT religion now. The human race won't go extinct without religion at this point. We need to deep six every religion. The sooner the better. Religion kills.

Fernapple replies on Feb 2, 2022:

@Toonman That is right, the product which does not exist is the marketers perfect product. In fact in most theist religions, you don't even get to take delivery of the imaginary product until after you are dead. Not really a surprise they don't get any bad reviews or returns. LOL

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

AtheistInNC comments on Jan 31, 2022:

With the advent of technology, all the benefits of religion can be had WITHOUT religion now. The human race won't go extinct without religion at this point. We need to deep six every religion. The sooner the better. Religion kills.

Fernapple replies on Feb 2, 2022:

@Toonman And of course the purpose of religion is as a marketing and support network for ignorance, given that ignorance/misinformation sells as a product in the hands of the dishonest, and that its supporters/sellers need a marketing method, they are keeping religion alive as their best ploy.

Everyone knows about the transatlantic slave trade from Africa to the New World.

Fernapple comments on Feb 1, 2022:

They simply blended in, especially as Islamic slavery was based on religion not skin type, so that there were white slaves too. Also Islam had a slightly more enlightened view of slavery, which meant that many more won their freedom and blended in with the general population.

Fernapple replies on Feb 2, 2022:

@Matias Oh I dont disagree with Diaco, that is one of the main reasons, I was just adding an extra. You also have to remember that most of the Islamic slave trade was in Africa and conducted by and for the benefit mainly of the North Africans and the Berbers etc. who are of much more mixed race than the true Arabs and former Persians. The original Arab lands soon became a back water within the Islamic empire and benefited very little from the trade therefore maintaining their racial purity was not so unlikely.

Took a bit of trip out in the bush yesterday with my old workmate from the Railways, Thommo, because...

anglophone comments on Feb 1, 2022:

And the local bunyip might cuddle up to him for warmth at night.

Fernapple replies on Feb 2, 2022:

Or the local bunyip may have better taste.

Everyone knows about the transatlantic slave trade from Africa to the New World.

Fernapple comments on Feb 1, 2022:

They simply blended in, especially as Islamic slavery was based on religion not skin type, so that there were white slaves too. Also Islam had a slightly more enlightened view of slavery, which meant that many more won their freedom and blended in with the general population.

Fernapple replies on Feb 2, 2022:

@Diaco No but they did free existing slaves who converted after a given period.

It may be my favorite things to do.

Fernapple comments on Feb 1, 2022:

Why is it that everything I want to do is either, illegal, immoral, or fattening ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 1, 2022:

@nogod4me Terrible on the knees, I wonder if that is why they call it the missionary possition, because it causes the same sores as praying all the time.

I was trying to do a search in the "Groups" section of the site.

FrayedBear comments on Feb 1, 2022:

Nothing like learning by trial & error

Fernapple replies on Feb 1, 2022:

@Robecology Yes I am all of those things as well. But a few weeks ago I ran my van into the garage, but forgot to close the back door on the van first, it opened and hit the wall, now that was pretty stupid and it cost me a lot. Things like that happen all the time to people like me, and there does not seem to be a cure. So I think that I am allowed to be rude to myself now and again.

I was trying to do a search in the "Groups" section of the site.

FrayedBear comments on Feb 1, 2022:

Nothing like learning by trial & error

Fernapple replies on Feb 1, 2022:

The problem is that there is no cure for stupid, and I am a life long sufferer, just basic treatment to ease the symptoms costs a fortune too.

I was trying to do a search in the "Groups" section of the site.

SpikeTalon comments on Feb 1, 2022:

That function seems to be working okay for me. Have not noticed anything unusual (yet).

Fernapple replies on Feb 1, 2022:

Yes it is for me now, thanks anyway.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

AtheistInNC comments on Jan 31, 2022:

With the advent of technology, all the benefits of religion can be had WITHOUT religion now. The human race won't go extinct without religion at this point. We need to deep six every religion. The sooner the better. Religion kills.

Fernapple replies on Feb 1, 2022:

@AtheistInNC Bit stronger than I would have put it, but I can go with that.

I can't wait to hear your answer.

FearlessFly comments on Jan 31, 2022:

42

Fernapple replies on Feb 1, 2022:

@anglophone The extra quarter is not needed, therefore the trinity can never be a part of the universe, and trinitarianism is an error..

Why Aren’t All Drugs Legal? - Freakonomics

Fernapple comments on Jan 31, 2022:

Some countries have tried it to a limited extent, ( Holland and Scandinavian counties especially. ) and it seems to work yes. But of course those are countries with fairly good national health and welfare support networks, whether it would work so well in somewhere like the US is another question.

Fernapple replies on Jan 31, 2022:

@rainmanjr Make it happen, and even if you don't succeed, it will still be one heck of a ride. Good luck.

I just got to thinking how Christians pray to their god and call him father as if he were a parental...

Fernapple comments on Jan 31, 2022:

Toxic parents often raise children who go on to be toxic parents themselves, and if they are Christian they can trace their line all the way back to their God. That's heritage for you. "And don't you dare question heritage, you snotty little sc##t, or I will beat you till you can not stand up ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 31, 2022:

@AJimboShep82 Would not disagree with that. You made a good post too.

Priorities for next 14 days : No matter what , making sure I have no wear down panties on and ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 31, 2022:

PS. to your healthy diet advice to anyone reading. In order to avoid stones, especially bladder stones which can be nearly as bad. It is important to take the time to pee out and empty your bladder completely when you go, every time. A stone will waste a lot more time in the long term, than a few ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 31, 2022:

@Pralina1 That is some nightmare work pressure. Take care of yourself first whatever.

Why Aren’t All Drugs Legal? - Freakonomics

Fernapple comments on Jan 31, 2022:

Some countries have tried it to a limited extent, ( Holland and Scandinavian counties especially. ) and it seems to work yes. But of course those are countries with fairly good national health and welfare support networks, whether it would work so well in somewhere like the US is another question.

Fernapple replies on Jan 31, 2022:

@rainmanjr No but it does make the argument just a dream.

Why Aren’t All Drugs Legal? - Freakonomics

Fernapple comments on Jan 31, 2022:

Some countries have tried it to a limited extent, ( Holland and Scandinavian counties especially. ) and it seems to work yes. But of course those are countries with fairly good national health and welfare support networks, whether it would work so well in somewhere like the US is another question.

Fernapple replies on Jan 31, 2022:

@rainmanjr Best of luck getting that paid for, especially by the Repubs.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

OldMetalHead comments on Jan 29, 2022:

I thought evolutionary mismatch was when evolved traits that used to be beneficial, no longer are, for example, due to environmental changes. What protection does religion provide against that? To answer your question though, I would rather our species become more enlightened, whatever the ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 31, 2022:

@skado No we are not tossing them aside, we are eliminating them far too slowly, as they are block the actions of several very real viable alternatives. Religion has simply become the institutionalization of ultra- conservatism when taken to a criminal level. Nor is the assumption in that religion was the source of learning morality such as "not to steal, kill, fornicate, bear false witness, etc." inorder to cope with life in larger communities correct. There is a lot of evidence that tribal politics and trade neworks, played a much bigger role in the creation of post agricultural morality than religion, and that post agricultural religion came on to the scene only later.

Research Team Finds New Species of Coronaviruses in Some Unexpected Places

puff comments on Jan 30, 2022:

I'm reading this thinking how can a virus be a species? It is not an organism nor sexually reproduce. Did a quick search and found out like pandemic and vaccine, the definition has been changed recently.

Fernapple replies on Jan 30, 2022:

Yes it is a bit of a mess, a bit like Pluto and whether it is a planet or not. It is all about the mainly subjective business of clasification, whether a virus is alive. Different people have different ideas, and even the official line has been changed. Some say that viruses are just derived broken parts of other things, and not therefore alive themselves, but yet they are subject to natural sellection, which should be a prime feature of life you would think.

SCIENTISTS GENERALLY AGREE…

Fernapple comments on Jan 30, 2022:

There is no direct connection recognized by mainstream science, between genetically evolved traits and almost any aspect of modern religion. The genetic factors which favour religion are merely precursors, which may cause religion to happen. As you say. "There are two schools of thought. One is ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 30, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX Quite. You can always spot a phoney by the tails.

SCIENTISTS GENERALLY AGREE…

Fernapple comments on Jan 30, 2022:

There is no direct connection recognized by mainstream science, between genetically evolved traits and almost any aspect of modern religion. The genetic factors which favour religion are merely precursors, which may cause religion to happen. As you say. "There are two schools of thought. One is ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 30, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX, @Buttercup There are a few tiny bits of periferal science, behind the so called genetics of religion. Such as a positive error bias, ( We are more likely to assume something is, than is not. ) maybe a instictive fear of snakes, which are major players in a lot of religions, and a tendency to neophobia, ( fear of the unknown ), etc. but not the massive mountain of so called proof that appologists and pseudo science builds on that molehill. Genetic behaviorism deals, in by its very evolved nature, with big clunky crude issues, which are all the slow tick of evolution has time to deal with, not specifics like beliefs, evolution does not perfect it only moves towards it. Just as we have hands with fingers to use and make many tools, and do not have evolved bottle openers and skrew drivers on the ends of our arms, so we have instincts like neophobia, and not fear of gods or hell, neither of which are found in all religions anyway. And the bottom line is, that if religion was genetically programmed, then there would be no atheists or agnostics, not even Buddist atheists believing in karma.

SCIENTISTS GENERALLY AGREE…

Fernapple comments on Jan 30, 2022:

There is no direct connection recognized by mainstream science, between genetically evolved traits and almost any aspect of modern religion. The genetic factors which favour religion are merely precursors, which may cause religion to happen. As you say. "There are two schools of thought. One is ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 30, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX Especially if you do not care about exact usages of words, including even "science" and "genetics". Which you may do, especially if you come from the background of religion, where it is acceptable to interpret anything to mean anything you wish, and never mind the confussion it may cause, because confussion is where the narcissim of religion thrives.

Morals don’t come from religion, Some naturally have it while others don’t.

puff comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Empathy is the only moral needed as Gene Wilder said. Is not all religious morality based in empathy?

Fernapple replies on Jan 30, 2022:

@puff That is very true but only I think as a philosophical ethic, which has entered within most modern theist religions. I would have to qualify that by pointing out that many older religions especially do not contain the golden rule as a tenant, the Aztec religion for example taught kill and torture to appease the blood lust of the gods, while Shinto, many forms of Hinduism and pagan views were largely morallity free, the golden rule is not always a constant of religion.

Morals don’t come from religion, Some naturally have it while others don’t.

puff comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Empathy is the only moral needed as Gene Wilder said. Is not all religious morality based in empathy?

Fernapple replies on Jan 30, 2022:

That is true of some religious morality yes, but a lot of it is directed at crushing empathy. The religious ethical justifications for human sacrifice, slavery, religious persecution, racism and social inequality for just a few examples, have all been used to tell people not to employ empathy even against their human feelings.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Evolution does not have intent, there is no evolutionary protection against extinction, evolution does not have foresight, and there is no evolutionary drive for the betterment or protection of the species. Those are the four of the most basic, and simple grade school tenants of modern ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 30, 2022:

@Triphid Redeemable , not unredeemable. Though I am pushing the boat out, more than a little.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Evolution does not have intent, there is no evolutionary protection against extinction, evolution does not have foresight, and there is no evolutionary drive for the betterment or protection of the species. Those are the four of the most basic, and simple grade school tenants of modern ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 29, 2022:

@Triphid "They create a desert and they call it peace." Peace is for the graveyard. Besides which I beleive that Skado is basically well intended and therefore redeamable.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Religion is the main evolutionary mismatch which is driving us towards extinction. Religion is the main source of support for those wishing to promote criminal ideologies, including and especially anti -environmentalism, anti-science, anti-reason, misinformation, and unethical narcissism. It can...

Fernapple replies on Jan 29, 2022:

@skado And I am familiar with yours, but there are others who may not be, and I take an interest in the welfare of others, including the protection of them against misinformation. And I am comforted to know, from experience on this site, that their are others who can and do understand and appreiciate my definition, even if they think that I could be wrong, and I admit it is not perfect. I am however comforted, that I do not have a personal definition which makes such a stretch of the languages usages, that it actually becomes an abuse to the language, though it is in the nature of poor shambolic language that it takes a lot to abuse it. Even though it seems to be quite normal behaviour among appologists, whose use of deceit and cognitive dissonance has presumably grown so deep and familiar that honesty is no longer identifiable, and all the personal instincts based on honesty have been erroded away by the corrosive effect that religion has on the human personality.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Evolution does not have intent, there is no evolutionary protection against extinction, evolution does not have foresight, and there is no evolutionary drive for the betterment or protection of the species. Those are the four of the most basic, and simple grade school tenants of modern ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 29, 2022:

@Triphid Yes, in the end the short crude, but still true answer is that. If there really was a genetic basis for religion, then there would not be such things as atheists and agnostics at all.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Evolution does not have intent, there is no evolutionary protection against extinction, evolution does not have foresight, and there is no evolutionary drive for the betterment or protection of the species. Those are the four of the most basic, and simple grade school tenants of modern ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 29, 2022:

@skado Back pedalling again when caught, boy you do spin.

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jan 29, 2022:

But religion is a very high-level cognitive process; evolution is is only "active" at the lower levels. As analogy, evolution builds the computer and OS but society's programs religion into it... and not before they have to program language, categorization, and a host of other mid-level cognitive...

Fernapple replies on Jan 29, 2022:

@skado The middle way is quite correct, evolution only provided at best, a few basic tendencies towards religion, such a positive confirmation bias, or an anthropomorphic interpretations bias, and they only enforced some forms of early primitive religion to appear. There is no direct connection between those genetic tendencies and any modern religion or religious institutions, and no serious scientist thinks that there is. The religious apologists and pseudo scientists who like to make the glib statement that there is a genetic basis for religion proved by science, and then try to pretend that that refers to their modern religions, are just making a huge false leap. Exactly the same false leap that those who try to prove a prime mover for the creation of the universe, and then claim that means their own personal God, make. None of the genetic basis for religion link directly into modern religion and no serous scientist would claim they do. The fact that apologists so often use such bad arguments and think that, science benefits from extra added spin, are just proving to the rest of at least the rational world, and not religions victims, just how much of a destructive effect religion has on the personality. Eroding even the basic, ( and really evolved ) instincts, for feelings such as honesty, so completely. ( Probably by the repeated exploitation of the ill informed leading to an acceptance of deceits as a human norm. )

Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’, just as ...

Fernapple comments on Jan 29, 2022:

Evolution does not have intent, there is no evolutionary protection against extinction, evolution does not have foresight, and there is no evolutionary drive for the betterment or protection of the species. Those are the four of the most basic, and simple grade school tenants of modern ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 29, 2022:

@skado I quote. "Religion is evolution’s protection against ‘extinction-due-to-evolutionary-mismatch’" maybe you can argue that into not meaning evolution has intent, and make the case that as usual you were not trying to take advantage of those ill infomed, to get away with spinning. But I would not bother, if you pile the sewage too high it will slip and smell, then everyone will know.

An Aphidlion preserved in Baltic Amber along with several Aphids.

Cast1es comments on Jan 29, 2022:

So how do I go about introducing aphidlions into my garden ?

Fernapple replies on Jan 29, 2022:

"Build it and they will come."

More delays to bring England and Wales into line with Scotland and N.

Marionville comments on Jan 28, 2022:

Let’s hope the legislation goes through asap.

Fernapple replies on Jan 28, 2022:

The real issue is. We can't have people threatening to take away some of the Church Of Englands wedding business, ( The only thing its got left. ) those bishops supply us Tory MPs with loads of hospitality.

ONE SPECIES - A stirring take on climate change from Isaac Asimov [youtube.com]

Cast1es comments on Jan 27, 2022:

Comparatively speaking , I wonder what is using more fuel , airline flights , or outer space flights ?

Fernapple replies on Jan 28, 2022:

Space flights certainly, though as with all these things, it is complex. For although flying by airliner is seen as the big nasty poster boy of carbon makers, in fact you use less fuel flying, if the distance is greater than five hundred miles, than you would driving in a car, and that comes down to just two hundred and fifty miles if you drive alone and take no passengers.

You may laugh at the early parallel origins of the sex industry and adult toys, perhaps, but the ...

FrayedBear comments on Jan 26, 2022:

Trust you to come up with that!

Fernapple replies on Jan 26, 2022:

Thanks, I do my best to challenge the limits.

Because of the leftist / socialist / Marxist / Communist leanings of most users of this site, I ...

Petter comments on Jan 24, 2022:

You left out humanist, realist, and non dogmatist!

Fernapple replies on Jan 25, 2022:

There is a lot of those about, but I believe you can get a pill now.

Good God Above

waitingforgodo comments on Jan 24, 2022:

Genealogy, cross-stitch, cruciverbalism, phd studies on the explication of divine eternality, foot fetishism, getting high, biblical scholarship with a focus on what you said, conduct classes in prestidigitation, legerdemain, haruspicy and extispicy for beginners, write a children's fairytale on ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 25, 2022:

He tried all those, was not any good at them.

It took me a while to work this one out, but not too sure I have the meaning quite pinned down.

Pralina1 comments on Jan 24, 2022:

I am going to see it like this , based on personal experiences : It’s hard to act joyful and supporting and even just been there when u see friends or family making wrong decisions / steps / actions . I have been to weddings and fairwells and hard conversations where my opinion it was requested ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 24, 2022:

I think you nailed it.

What words do you habitually misspell?

Fernapple comments on Jan 24, 2022:

Tion or sion, as in motion and regression, what fool decided that there should be too different ways of spelling that ending, and then went round scattering them about at random, just to create confution/confusion. Bet he was a real pitfall trap for donkeys.

Fernapple replies on Jan 24, 2022:

@LenHazell53 Sadly yes. I observe that the spelling cult, along with several others is a big prop for Christian fundamentalism, especially in the US. You can block education by keeping atheist, socialist, anti-racist, environmentaist and overseas books out of the schools, but if that fails, then you can still prevent learning by getting all the time used up on decorative skills and pseudo-education, and making people believe that that is what education really is.

It took me a while to work this one out, but not too sure I have the meaning quite pinned down.

Marionville comments on Jan 24, 2022:

I’m not quite sure, but I think I have it pinned down…it’s a convoluted way of saying we take more pleasure in seeing others suffer than we do in seeing them being joyful and happy. I think this can definitely be the case in certain circumstances, and towards certain people.

Fernapple replies on Jan 24, 2022:

@Marionville Yes that works well. It is sad that I do not have the whole passage and context, only the bald quote.

It took me a while to work this one out, but not too sure I have the meaning quite pinned down.

Buttercup comments on Jan 24, 2022:

I think taking gracefully can be harder than giving, let someone enjoy the act of giving because that's what they want. It's not better to give than to receive, they are complimentary forces that balance.

Fernapple replies on Jan 24, 2022:

That's a good reading of it I think.

It took me a while to work this one out, but not too sure I have the meaning quite pinned down.

Marionville comments on Jan 24, 2022:

I’m not quite sure, but I think I have it pinned down…it’s a convoluted way of saying we take more pleasure in seeing others suffer than we do in seeing them being joyful and happy. I think this can definitely be the case in certain circumstances, and towards certain people.

Fernapple replies on Jan 24, 2022:

Yes I think that is right. The other way I thought it may work, is, sympathy in the sense of pity. As in it is more common to feel pity for suffering, than it it to feel pity because you know that all joy is ephemeral and therefore pity is needed even for the joyful. But I think that your reading is best.

What words do you habitually misspell?

Fernapple comments on Jan 24, 2022:

Tion or sion, as in motion and regression, what fool decided that there should be too different ways of spelling that ending, and then went round scattering them about at random, just to create confution/confusion. Bet he was a real pitfall trap for donkeys.

Fernapple replies on Jan 24, 2022:

@LenHazell53 Thank you, that clears up a big problem. So my English teacher at school was wrong then, when we got the lesson about 'tion', which I do remember. quite clearly, its no wonder I can't understand spelling when English teachers don't.

The dorks who accused their opponents of election fraud committed election fraud.

Fernapple comments on Jan 23, 2022:

The dishonest always assume that everyone else is dishonest like them, because they do not have the intelligence to understand the motivations for honesty.

Fernapple replies on Jan 23, 2022:

@anglophone Certainly. Especially if as I was trying to put it, intelligence is not just cleverness, but also includes some aspects of personallity.

The dorks who accused their opponents of election fraud committed election fraud.

Fernapple comments on Jan 23, 2022:

The dishonest always assume that everyone else is dishonest like them, because they do not have the intelligence to understand the motivations for honesty.

Fernapple replies on Jan 23, 2022:

@Paul4747 Yes that's it exactly. It just that. "Evil cannot comprehend good." Is such and old one I was trying to put it in a new way.

I agree perpetual positivity can definitely lower morale and effectiveness. [atpe.org]

hankster comments on Jan 22, 2022:

permitting politeness perhaps, Perpetual Positivity portrays pretentions pinnacle.

Fernapple replies on Jan 22, 2022:

Alliteration and approval are always antithetic, angry anthropoid apes agree, alternative arrangments always allowed.

Richard Dawkins - "What if you're wrong?" South Park - YouTube

DenoPenno comments on Jan 22, 2022:

Wrong about what? The Dawkins character says it quite well in the cartoon. Yet, I meet others who think they would still be a Baptist if they were born in Palestine. They don't get it. Neither do others when I tell them the bible as we know it today came into existence some 300 plus years after the ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 22, 2022:

Actually although the idea of a bible was formed some 300 years later, the modern compliation is not even that old, and was still being modified well into the middle ages. While the fundies favourite the King James is only four centuries old.

[sciencedaily.

RichCC comments on Jan 22, 2022:

My only question is -- was it better because the Roman Kingdom lasted long enough (~600BCE to 467CE => ~1100years) so that they had time to learn it or did they get lucky with the materials (volcanic ash + lime + seawater). Maybe both. I also vaguely remember they were remarkably sophisticated ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 22, 2022:

They also used lighter aggregates in the top part of the Pantheon's dome, and harder heavier better weight barring stones lower down.

Was traveling through the Badlands stopped off at Devil's Tower to camp, learned how it got its name...

Fernapple comments on Jan 21, 2022:

Hello and welcome I hope you enjoy the site. ( Photo would be nice. ) PS Why are you named after a horse ?

Fernapple replies on Jan 22, 2022:

@jlynn37 I think that the music group was also named after the horse.

Ending religion lessons in schools leads to overall decline in belief but not morals | Religion | ...

skado comments on Jan 18, 2022:

Yet another voice that has mistaken fundamentalism for religion. “non-denominational ethical teaching” IS religion, from a scientific perspective. Denominationalism is just an artifact of a pre-global world. Ethical teaching is ethical teaching. Wherever humans are modifying their ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 18, 2022:

@skado As you rightly say. "There is no scientific consensus as to what precisely constitutes a religion." Nor I think is there any such thing as a valid scientific perspective. To accuse TheMiddleWay of setting up a strawman of religion, by using as evidence a strawman of science, is just too ridiculous for words. There may indeed be a science of folklore, because folklore is a real thing which is within the realm of scientific study, but the definition of the word religion is a philosophical, etymological and epistemological issue, not a scientific one. And for what it is worth, I will throw in my own philosophical definition of religion, which up to date has served me well, with few anomalies or exceptions. Which is that. Religion is is the use of fake authority, whether that authority comes from "god worship", "folklore" an old book or ritual, it does not matter. It only matters that religion equates almost exactly, (Please note the almost. ) to the fallacy of proof by authority, especially when that authority offers no justification of its worth. Which is a poor starting point for any "ethical teaching" even the "non-denominational " sort, if that is even possible. It is notable that Nationalism, Fascism and Marxism have been called religions in the past and certainly all have on occasion fallen well within your definition of. "Wherever humans are modifying their instinctual behaviours, by cultural means, for the purpose of social cohesion and coordination, religion is happening. " And I need not dwell on the history which happened in the most fundamental expressions of those, proofs by authority. The Point of which is. That religion like all false authority is of most use only to the promoters of evil, if you wish to modify instinctual behaviours in good directions there are real and well tested means, such as science, philosophy, and epistemology available, which not only serve just as well, but are much more suited to the honest and well meaning, and do not require the morally degenerative dangers of close association with fake authority and the bad company which follows in it wake.

Ending religion lessons in schools leads to overall decline in belief but not morals | Religion | ...

FvckY0u comments on Jan 18, 2022:

So the German constitution after WWII mandated religion be taught and in that time it's been changed to not mandate it and teach something different than religion. that's good progress from where they were post war. I'd like to see that kind of progress in the states.

Fernapple replies on Jan 18, 2022:

@LenHazell53 Yes that was my experience too.

Ending religion lessons in schools leads to overall decline in belief but not morals | Religion | ...

LenHazell53 comments on Jan 18, 2022:

Schools are supposed to impart knowledge, other than the knowledge that religion exists and did so in the past, which could be covered in the study of history and literature, there is in my opinion no place for religion in schools. Furthermore given the "bloody" history of religion the moral well ...

Fernapple replies on Jan 18, 2022:

Yes I have heard that one too. I have also heard that he said that, theology is the only subject in which the objective is not to move the study forwards.