Hey folks, it's been a while since my last visit, so I have a lot to catch up on.

Word comments on Jul 6, 2021:

To add to my previous post and give information that I think can be viewed as a peice of evidence for the mind virus organism still cognating and acting in the minds of the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshipper European invador governmental terrorist, I leave this link and some ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2021:

@DenoPenno I wholly agree, here is certainly no Biblical evidence for Egyptian Hebrew slaves, Hebrew may not even have been an idea then, but there is considerable evidence for slaves in general escaping into the desert. Including reports of outlaw slaves being a problem to and raiding into Egypt. Also don't forget that Egypt may have been used as a catch all term for all the countries to the south of the Fertile crescent, so that in the vague folk memory it could mean Arabia etc. I am not saying that this is history, simply that some things are bound to happen, such as some of the people migrating from South America to the USA, are almost certainly going to go through Mexico. And so some migrants from South America are almost bound to be misnamed as migrants from Mexico. So some of the migrants from the deserts to the south of the Fertile Crescent are almost bound to have a vague memory of Egyptian decent. Egypt was just the big country and great power to the South, anyone with no more than a vague folk memory of their ancestry was almost bound to say. "We came from Egypt." even if they came from Ethiopia, Arabia or were natives of the deserts. After all very few white Americans are of British decent, not even those in the first thirteen colonies, they came from all over Europe, but many in the past especially would say that they were the English Americans.

Change my mind.

Fernapple comments on Jul 7, 2021:

Things are more complicated than that. End of story. Wisdom is about nuance, always beware people who are trying to sell an oversimplified view, they are never trying to point out the truth.

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2021:

@skado PS. It maters little if it be metaphorical or not. Gross oversimplification is often an invitation for people to make oversimplified replies, which is often the resort of the charlatan loooking for easy wins.

Change my mind.

Fernapple comments on Jul 7, 2021:

Things are more complicated than that. End of story. Wisdom is about nuance, always beware people who are trying to sell an oversimplified view, they are never trying to point out the truth.

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2021:

@skado See second comment.

Hey folks, it's been a while since my last visit, so I have a lot to catch up on.

Word comments on Jul 6, 2021:

To add to my previous post and give information that I think can be viewed as a peice of evidence for the mind virus organism still cognating and acting in the minds of the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshipper European invador governmental terrorist, I leave this link and some ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2021:

@DenoPenno It is quite likely that there was a perminant flow of escaped slaves out of Egypt. Who would have been forced to join the shepherd peoples living in the deserts to the East. That was almost bound to create the belief in those people, that they were the decendents of Egyption slaves, even though there would always be a dwindeling percent of native heritage. It is almost certain that on many occassions those desert peoples would have tried to invade or steal land in the Fertile Crescent, and they would sometimes succeed. The whole story is probably therefore a much simplified version of a long and complex series of events which took place over centuries. A simplification which is exactly that which tends to happen to history as it changes into folklore.

Change my mind.

waitingforgodo comments on Jul 7, 2021:

Are you suggesting two pages of the same book? Or the latest word game involving an unholy trinity of free association, rorschach and legerdemain? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V83JR2IoI8k

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2021:

No I think he is suggesting quite different pages with no overlap.

Change my mind.

Fernapple comments on Jul 7, 2021:

Change my mind.

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2021:

@David1955 Thank you.

What are you really afraid off?

wordywalt comments on Jul 6, 2021:

Old-age dementia.

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2021:

@Jolanta Sadly you don't forget everything, you just become more confused, more frightened and more dependent on others. The brain affects the body and you become ill, with many unpleasant symptoms which can last for years. Often you end up bed bound and in nappies, being washed and changed by stangers, both real and imagined strangers. And you no longer have the power or understanding to terminate your life.

School board candidates are wolves in sheep's clothing.

dalefvictor comments on Jul 4, 2021:

Sometimes putting in good people is hard and it take a lot of work to find that the best candidate might be yourself.

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2021:

Yes if a job needs doing well, doing it yourself is usually the best option, but the trouble is that the whole world will happly let you carry it, if you are too willing.

Is religious belief natural or man made?

Moravian comments on Jul 3, 2021:

Children are predisposed to follow instructions from their parents or other teachers. This is common in most species and is beneficial for the continuation of the species.Belief in gods was primitive man's way of trying to understand a dangerous world but we are a bit more knowledgeable than that ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2021:

@Moravian It is in decline of course where there are high levels of education and reasonable living standards, but there is every sign that those may well go into decline and that could bring about a religious revival.

Nothing to add.

FrostyJim comments on Jul 3, 2021:

Disgraceful is fun...

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2021:

@Gwendolyn2018 That is a ballancing act.

What Does It Mean to Be Agnostic?

Tejas comments on Jul 3, 2021:

Agnosticism is knowledge Atheism is belief. The two don't relate

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2021:

@anglophone Quite, so you can be both an atheist and a theist, just as Tejas said, you can be both atheist and agnostic. But the common usage of atheist is for total atheist about all gods, and it is not specified in the post that anything other than the common usage is implied.

& don't bring up "Cults of Personality" like Stalin's Communism or Mao's Cultural Revolution.

Fernapple comments on Jul 3, 2021:

I don't think so, atheism has deep roots, going back all the way to the classical world. Even in the middle ages, perhaps the high point of theism, it existed in some forms. This is the first of a really interesting series of lectures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb5mYqnKFlI

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2021:

@phxbillcee Ah, I see. It has sometimes to be said, that perhaps the best of the few good things that religion offers, is that it sometimes offers an alternate voice to the state, and it monopoly on propaganda.

We have a number of people on this site, like Captain_Feelgood, who persist in attacking people with...

Flyingsaucesir comments on Jul 3, 2021:

When you throw dirt, you lose ground.

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2021:

Like that one.

A common ‘belief’ among atheists is that humans are born atheists, and come to religion only ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 1, 2021:

I thought that that was more or less what most atheists did think. Certainly there is nothing new to this one. Stop strawmanning atheists.

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2021:

@bbyrd009 Yes though the "deliberate promotion of falsehoods" may be by those who truly believe in them. By deliberate promotion of falsehoods, I did not mean decietful promotion.

A common ‘belief’ among atheists is that humans are born atheists, and come to religion only ...

powder comments on Jul 1, 2021:

Living in Thailand opened my eyes. No-one believes in a singular deity which strongly suggests to me it is a taught concept, not a natural thought. Many atheists latch onto science as their catch call phrase without knowing science is just humanities pursuit of knowledge. The thing with biology/ ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 2, 2021:

Good points. You may like to view my comments next down.

A common ‘belief’ among atheists is that humans are born atheists, and come to religion only ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 1, 2021:

I thought that that was more or less what most atheists did think. Certainly there is nothing new to this one. Stop strawmanning atheists.

Fernapple replies on Jul 2, 2021:

@skado By suggesting that they do not share the views of the narrator in this video. The narrator is talking about belief anyway not religion, though she does add a few remarks at the end about religion, which are not justified by her main argument or by the science talked about. Religion is not the same thing as belief, we all need belief, to use the cliche example, we all have to believe we are not living in a matrix, to not give up on life. But religion is not belief. Belief can be modified and selected to be belief in true things, or essential if unsupported things. Religion is the subset of belief, which is a purely cultural phenomena about the deliberate promotion of belief in falsehoods. It is that by definition. Because if it promotes belief in truths, then it becomes by definition philosophy. To give an example. If a religious figure, who may even be a fictional one, such as Jesus Christ makes a statement such as. "Do as you would be done by." Then they are making a philosophical statement, because that idea can be tested against the rules of logic, and epistemology, which is how we know if it is true or not, and that makes it a philosophical statement. If we add the further requirement for empirical evidence then we have the sub-set of philosophy, natural philosophy, aka. science. However if a religious text makes a claim such as. He was raised up on the third day, then that can not be justified as a true statement, because it can not be tested for falsehood against any of those rules, and is therefore by definition a potential falsehood, and therefore a religious belief, not a philosophical one.

OK, is this rage or just play ? [youtube.com]

AnneWimsey comments on Jul 1, 2021:

As in all things, the females standing back & going WTF?

Fernapple replies on Jul 1, 2021:

That was my third choice that I did not think of until later. Showing off to the females. Which never works anyway.

Psychopaths are always shaking the jar, just to stir up some murder and mayhem for their own ...

Fernapple comments on Jun 30, 2021:

It was me, I confess.

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2021:

@RichCC There are a lot of good religious people, who are convinced this is a site for psychopaths. ( It makes it easy for me to blend in.)

ok im baked and wanna pose a thought have human beings stopped evolving?

RussRAB comments on Jun 29, 2021:

As others have said, evolution is adaptation to particular environmental conditions. The individuals who are better suited to survive and reproduce under the set of conditions have their genes passed on. In this way, species should be understood to be elements of their environments. Humans are a...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2021:

That ignores the effects of sexual selection and genetic drift. Evolution acts fast when there is a change in the environment, human culture and technology have made one of the most rapid changes in the environment ever seen by any creature. Especially as you say. "I would think that human evolution would remain slow so long as we are able to insulate ourselves from our environments." But being able to insulate yourself from certain environmental pressures, does not bring a stop to evolution, it only means that the pressures remaining become more important. That includes especially internal factors such as sexual selection. One of the big effects of which (Just for example, it is far from the only one.) will be the drive towards sexual dimorphism, which is normally blocked by environmental pressures. But when those pressures are removed, then there is nothing to stop males growing much bigger and more aggressive, and females growing smaller and more passive, because they are the types who breed most successfully. The ultimate feminist nightmare perhaps. Generally we may also grow more aggressive and loose emotions of social empathy, because society and breeding rewards aggression, while medical science, removes many of the consequences of aggression. For example a human who suffers a broken bone as a result of fighting will today survive, where in the past they would most likely die. If humans do survive the current global problems, such as global warming, then the effects of evolution will be very evil to all those qualities we today regard as our higher functions. ( There is some evidence, our brains have been shrinking rapidly since the agricultural revolution. ) Until eventually some crisis, perhaps quite a small one, such as the machines which feed us break down and we can not mend them anymore, comes along which we are unable to deal with, and we go extinct.

The cake is a myth; the cake is a lie.

Fernapple comments on Jun 29, 2021:

My favourite is, "Nun's Fart".

Fernapple replies on Jun 29, 2021:

@Kahna Its a sort of puff pastry bun.

I found this question on an online dating site: "Would you consider dating someone whose religion...

Boxdoc comments on Jun 28, 2021:

I have always been an atheist. I have been married twice to religious women. We understood each other and it was never an issue. Unfortunately both died of cancers. Religion did them a lot of good didn't it.

Fernapple replies on Jun 28, 2021:

You too. I only lost one wife to cancer, but she was religious too. Forty three not a good age for widowhood.

are non-believers allowed to golf? I've been golfing some.

Fernapple comments on Jun 28, 2021:

Poking your balls down a hole with a stick, is pointless activity which can cause you to develop a number of unpleasant medical complaints.

Fernapple replies on Jun 28, 2021:

@hankster It seems to be a very popular hobby.

Why is it that most people can read but seem to be unable to fully comprehend what they read?

David1955 comments on Jun 27, 2021:

An issue on my mind too. I believe it is because too many people lack critical thinking and contextualising skills. I suspect that with education focusing obsessively on 'vocational skills' and 'employment skills' and 'job skills', as education is geared to narrowly training people for the needs of...

Fernapple replies on Jun 28, 2021:

And of course, if you did teach critical thinking then most people would reject the products of most of those jobs. So that the other advantage of teaching job skills and nothing else, is that you, not only train people to be good passive workers, but also good childishly demanding, but uncritical, consumers who will be a market for dross they produce.

I went garden visiting today, and saw where a friend has made a garden in the ruined circular tower ...

RussRAB comments on Jun 27, 2021:

Very lovely. I recall you saying how much you liked ferns, I imagine it was a particularly enjoyable find for you.

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

Yes it was, especially as some of her collection came from me.

I went garden visiting today, and saw where a friend has made a garden in the ruined circular tower ...

Cast1es comments on Jun 27, 2021:

WOW ! We had an unexpected week long freeze this past winter and I thought it had killed off most of my ferns , but they are growing back from the roots , in even greater quantity than I had originally planted .

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

They are very tough and hardy for the most part.

I went garden visiting today, and saw where a friend has made a garden in the ruined circular tower ...

KateOahu comments on Jun 27, 2021:

What a lovely place. Calls for champagne, cheese, and crackers…

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

Had local sausage in puff pastry, and coffee cake with a white coffee.

Does your device meet the (Windows 11) requirements ?

DenoPenno comments on Jun 26, 2021:

I have not checked and do not want to. I plan on using Windows 10 as long as I can and I have shut down all the bad features of that system. Microsoft will come in and rearrange your Windows 10 every 90 days. It pissed me off, so now they no longer do that on my system. They are blocked. I update as...

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

I know. I let them slip through and they deleted a perfectly good chess game that I had been playing with for years, and was not even produced by them, and now I can't get it back again.

Can someone tell our purpose of existing on this earth?

skado comments on Jun 26, 2021:

Tiger food.

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

Bacteria need to eat too.

Can someone tell our purpose of existing on this earth?

bobwjr comments on Jun 27, 2021:

Nope

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

Too much honesty can get you into deep s##t.

Can someone tell our purpose of existing on this earth?

Word comments on Jun 27, 2021:

Several answers depending on point of view and expected response to satisfy the question. 1. We exist on Earth because we are not martians on mars. Purpose defined as the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. 2. The reason you exist is because of ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

One of your best Word.

This is a follow up to a previous post.

Fernapple comments on Jun 26, 2021:

Every joke, whatever its subject, is a serious comment on the nature of logic.

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

@bbyrd009 The second part of this paragraph is true. The first part of this paragraph is a lie. Another example is this post. "Why should the word atheist even exist, since we do not have words for none stamp collecting or none golfing etc." But then that leads to the logical question. Why should not every term/ word/ phrase have an equal and opposite negative. " My wife and I were out walking in the town. When we saw my mother in law across the other side of the street. As we watched, a gang of four men, obviously criminals, began to violently assault her. My wife said. "Arn't you going to go over and help." I said. "No, four should be enough." Questions our false logical assumtions about the nature of family relations, even pointing out a truth.

What benefits might there be in describing the activity of mathematics in the following terms?

Fernapple comments on Jun 26, 2021:

I thought that that was the standard way.

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

@anglophone Reminds me of the frequent religious thinking. Give that one of the axioms of god is that it exists, therefore this is how we prove it exists.

The spell checker on here is interesting.

KateOahu comments on Jun 27, 2021:

I make so many typos, it is hard for me to place blame anywhere but on myself.

Fernapple replies on Jun 27, 2021:

You are not the only one.

Stolen "What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

Fernapple comments on Jun 26, 2021:

The second half of this sentence is true, but the first half of this sentence is a lie.

Fernapple replies on Jun 26, 2021:

@EarnestEccentric Yes it would have been better if I used paragraph.

An interesting historical footnote for those who find Biblical matters interesting.

FrayedBear comments on Jun 26, 2021:

I'm amazed that with all that inbreeding they haven't grown horns & tails!

Fernapple replies on Jun 26, 2021:

@FrayedBear No need to be politically correct. Maybe the hats are there to hide the horns.

What is our relationship with nature ?

Fernapple comments on Jun 25, 2021:

No I can see the same problem. One part of it of course is the inherited cultural dogma, that there are only two sexes, which is not true even of nature, where all manner of hermaphrodites have always and always did exist. And that everyone has to have just one of those two sexes, why not three or ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 26, 2021:

@Matias Yes I am probably going down a rabbit hole, the issue of gender in sports has been so much to the fore this last month here, I was making an assumption that your post was inspired by that. But it still makes the point that biological gender is not simple, and that how you define sex may depend very much more on your reasons for needing to use gender, rather than biology. Perhaps the best answer to your main question though, is that since cognitive dissonance and the property it gives to people to believe several quite contrary things at the same time, is the norm in virtually every sphere of human life, why should our attitude to nature be the one exception.

What is our relationship with nature ?

Fernapple comments on Jun 25, 2021:

No I can see the same problem. One part of it of course is the inherited cultural dogma, that there are only two sexes, which is not true even of nature, where all manner of hermaphrodites have always and always did exist. And that everyone has to have just one of those two sexes, why not three or ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 26, 2021:

@Matias That is true for some things, but not perhaps if you are using them for sports handicaps for example.

What is our relationship with nature ?

Fernapple comments on Jun 25, 2021:

No I can see the same problem. One part of it of course is the inherited cultural dogma, that there are only two sexes, which is not true even of nature, where all manner of hermaphrodites have always and always did exist. And that everyone has to have just one of those two sexes, why not three or ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 26, 2021:

@Matias Yes but there are several flavours of intersexual.

Fossil bones belonging to mysterious ancient human found in Israel [abc.net.au]

Petter comments on Jun 25, 2021:

Maybe they were an offshoot of the Denisovan humans.

Fernapple replies on Jun 26, 2021:

@barjoe Nah, in Israel even God could do that. LOL

Rachel Maddow reports that he Trump business organization is likely to face criminal charges in New ...

p-nullifidian comments on Jun 25, 2021:

Almost as delicious a thought as spellchecker? 😉

Fernapple replies on Jun 26, 2021:

Spell checker is interesting. Type the wrong letter, and it tells you, but type the wrong word and it wont.

What would it take for you to believe that god is real and exists?

Fernapple comments on Jun 25, 2021:

Which god ?

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2021:

@MrDragon Then I would say that many things could make me believe in a lot of gods, but not hers. Because her god is not logically consistent, and if I saw evidence for something that was not logically consistent, then I am more likely to assume that I have gone mad.

We had a request for more meaningful discussions.

Fernapple comments on Jun 24, 2021:

The problem with that is that, when governments fail to deliver on that promise, (which is not a new one ), though corruption and/or incompetence. They always look for someone to take the blame away from themselves, and the easy target is foreigners. War and conflict have never been about threats ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2021:

@Julie808 In some ways the Cold War was one of the best tricks, in the Soviet block communism failed the people, and in the Western block, especially the US, capitalism failed nearly as badly to really raise the greater number of people. So blame the other side, but create a phoney none shooting war, except by proxy in a few third world states, and you can go on avoiding the need to address your countries problems with the long term hard work, careful thinking, education, care, corruption cleansing and honesty, they really need, forever. Suits both sides.

What replaces preaching?

creative51 comments on Jun 23, 2021:

Preaching is just a form of salesmanship. A preacher sells their version of god and of course you need to pay for their version. What the preacher says is various strategies to get you to buy. It is not going away, because the skills show up in insurance sales, car sales, furniture sales, anything ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 24, 2021:

@bbyrd009 That already happens, across a lot of secular Europe, the secular nation states give various forms of social security and healthcare, and people are steadly turning from religion. Is it any wonder that the American evangelical churches are lining up with the anti-stateist right.

What replaces preaching?

creative51 comments on Jun 23, 2021:

Preaching is just a form of salesmanship. A preacher sells their version of god and of course you need to pay for their version. What the preacher says is various strategies to get you to buy. It is not going away, because the skills show up in insurance sales, car sales, furniture sales, anything ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 23, 2021:

And the religious salesman has the advantage that, most of what is being sold can not be tested until after you are dead. No compliants, no returns, no bad press from disappointed customers, and no real need to actually deliver the goods.

“We are dust and to dust return.

Fernapple comments on Jun 19, 2021:

No we are mainly water.

Fernapple replies on Jun 23, 2021:

@HelenRoseBuck Thank you I will.

WORDS.

LiterateHiker comments on Jun 22, 2021:

Of course words have meanings. **Definition: ** *noun* 1. the act of defining, or of making something definite, distinct, or clear: *We need a better definition of her responsibilities.* 2. the formal statement of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, idiom, etc., as found in ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 23, 2021:

@MikeInBatonRouge Yep good ideas, but I still think that pseudo-god suits the purpose better.

WORDS.

LiterateHiker comments on Jun 22, 2021:

Of course words have meanings. **Definition: ** *noun* 1. the act of defining, or of making something definite, distinct, or clear: *We need a better definition of her responsibilities.* 2. the formal statement of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, idiom, etc., as found in ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 23, 2021:

@MikeInBatonRouge An exact example proving my point. What word would you use for something which acts in the role of a god, but does not have many of the properties usually associated with a god, such as mind and thought ? I do not know one, maybe you do, my vocabulary is not vast, but the fact that common English does not provide such a term, and forces me to invent one. A bad one with redundancy, as you say. Is exactly the point that the failings of the inherited language, affects the way we model reality, in a detrimental way. Especially if we believe in absolute meanings. And moreover lead to failings of thought, such as the common falacy,of believing that you can define god into existence, often found in the religious.

WORDS.

LiterateHiker comments on Jun 22, 2021:

Of course words have meanings. **Definition: ** *noun* 1. the act of defining, or of making something definite, distinct, or clear: *We need a better definition of her responsibilities.* 2. the formal statement of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, idiom, etc., as found in ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 23, 2021:

@MikeInBatonRouge If you use a dictionary for reference, then no it is not religious. But if you use it as a source of truth beyond the "usages" of words, which perhaps you would not do, but a lot of people do, then yes it does become a religion.

WORDS.

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Jun 22, 2021:

We don't merely use words for fun. We use them to convey meaning. We are stuck with words, like it or not. As imperfect a tool they may be for conveying meaning and having that meaning understood as we intend, we are left with no preferable alternatives.

Fernapple replies on Jun 23, 2021:

Yes I quite agree.

WORDS.

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Jun 22, 2021:

Semantics. Words do, indeed have meaning, a meaning which is derived through inferences people make based on the observed usage of the words. It is subjective to be sure, but it is still meaning. Perhaps you meant no absolute meaning? The purpose of words, certainly imperfectly executed, is ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 23, 2021:

I did mean absolute meanings, my word "usages" being the same thing as, 'none absolute meanings'. But the fact that I need to define my meaning of usages further, kind of proves my point. That you can not in fact use any word and assume its meaning, without defining that meaning on that occasion. And that believing words have absolute meanings is the same as believing in gods.

WORDS.

LiterateHiker comments on Jun 22, 2021:

Of course words have meanings. **Definition: ** *noun* 1. the act of defining, or of making something definite, distinct, or clear: *We need a better definition of her responsibilities.* 2. the formal statement of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, idiom, etc., as found in ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

Ah, spoken like a true religious believer. Your holy books are a perfect guide to everything in life, but you have to ask yourself if the worship of dictionaries, is in any way different from the worship of bibles. No words do not have meaning, words only have usages. Words are human cultural constructs, used in an attempt to model reality, which we generally inherit and which were made by former generations who often had very different models of reality to ours. To make good and worthwhile use of sceptical thinking, it is not enough merely to abandon literal belief in the sky fairy. Which is only a tiny part of the worlds culturally recieved folly, and probably far from being the worst or most dangerous part. It is needful to apply a sceptical view to all of human culture, including, art, tradition, litrature and yes language, plus any other of the numerous psuedo-gods that human culture creates and sets up. It is usualy thought that, in about the fifth century BCE, the classical world first produced philosophy. Why ? Was not the recieved cultural knowledge of the classical world enough, did not Zeus and the oracle at Delphi have good enough answers ? Of course you know the answer. Which is that, it was obvious by then, that unregulated and inherited human culture was not a good source of knowledge and wisdom, it was needful at the very least to invent philosophy to bring the rules of logic found in mathematics to bare on the problems. And when once that did not prove alone to be enough, the enlightenment invented Natural Philosphy, now called science, to add extra measures and safeguards, such as the experimental method. None of that would have been needed had it not been plainly seen that recieved cultural information, was failing to give good answers or provide a good model of the world. And what was one of the first errors to be recognized, by philosophy, it was that of linguistic sophistry.

Why should the word "atheist" even exist?

richiegtt comments on Jun 21, 2021:

I prefer the term nonbeliever .I do not care for labels .Labels cause more problems .I have seen constant bickering on this site over the years between atheists and agnostics which is pathetic.

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

@LenHazell53 PS I would really like to know and understand the reference you make to Discworld, since I have not read it, so your comment is lost on me.

Why should the word "atheist" even exist?

richiegtt comments on Jun 21, 2021:

I prefer the term nonbeliever .I do not care for labels .Labels cause more problems .I have seen constant bickering on this site over the years between atheists and agnostics which is pathetic.

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

@LenHazell53 Yes , of course, you say. "Therefore using the incorrect words or using words incorrectly is a way to royally screw things up. " Quite. And what I am saying is, that it is impossible NOT to use words incorrectly. And that any usage of words is amost, (not quite always, I do not believe in absolutes, ) bound to skrew things up to a degree. I made a post giving this as an example. Atheist for example. (Only for example.) Is a very badly used word in many cases, since most, so called, atheists, are actually what you could call 'asupernaturalists' or 'anti-suprernaturalists', since they do not believe in anything supernatural, nor any, none theist religions, like Buddhism, Spiritualism or Animism either. So that it could well be that when we call ourselves atheist, we a conceding to theist imperialism, trying to pretend that only theist religion, (god belief ) matters and is somehow higher than other religions. To make good and worthwhile use of sceptical thinking, it is not enough merely to abandon literal belief in the sky fairy. Which is only a tiny part of the worlds culturally recieved folly, and probably far from being the worst or most dangerous part. It is needful to apply a sceptical view to all of human culture, including, art, tradition, litrature and yes language, plus any other of the numerous psuedo-gods that human culture sets up. It is usualy thought that, in about the fifth century BCE, the classical world first produced philosophy. Why ? Was not the recieved cultural knowledge of the classical world enough, did not Zeus and the oracle at Delphi have good enough answers ? Of course you know the answer. Which is that, it was obvious by then, that unregulated and inherited human culture was not a good source of knowledge and wisdom, it was needful at the very least to invent philosophy to bring the rules of logic found in mathematics to bare on the problems. And when once that did not prove alone to be enough, the enlightenment invented Natural Philosphy, now called science, to add extra measures and safeguards, such as the experimental method. None of that would have been needed had it not been plainly seen that recieved cultural information, was failing to give good answers or provide a good model of the world. And what was one of the first errors to be recognized, by philosophy, it was that of linguistic sophistry.

Why should the word "atheist" even exist?

richiegtt comments on Jun 21, 2021:

I prefer the term nonbeliever .I do not care for labels .Labels cause more problems .I have seen constant bickering on this site over the years between atheists and agnostics which is pathetic.

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

@LenHazell53 No words do not have meaning, words only have usages. Words are human cultural constructs, used in an attempt to model reality, which we generally inherit and which were made by former generations who often had very different models of reality to ours. Believing that words have meaning is merely to make a god out of inherited human culture, which is why they so often fail. Words are at best, poor second hand tools, ill suited to the purpose to which they are used, using them to model reality being like, trying to build a butterfly out of house bricks. And the myth that they have wisdom and meaning, built into them, is no better than the belief that there is wisdom and meaning imparted to us by a literal god though holy books. The biggest mistake you can make, having thrown out a belief in god, is to set up human culture as an alternative god instead. Like this may use it elsewhere.

Do you think there is such a thing as a, nice people fallacy.

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Jun 22, 2021:

If I understood your intended point, I agree.

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

Thank you. Yes it was not my plainest post, late night idea. But it got some interesting replies.

“We are dust and to dust return.

Fernapple comments on Jun 19, 2021:

No we are mainly water.

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

@HelenRoseBuck The evaporate eventually condenses, and comes down as raindrops, so it is still very much there. In fact dust is ill defined, and may included particles which eventually fall apart, yeilding even more water. While water is one of the toughest and most durable molecules known.

Do you think there is such a thing as a, nice people fallacy.

wordywalt comments on Jun 21, 2021:

Well-intentioned and civil people an be misled, and can be drawn into behavior which they would avoid if they knew the truth.

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

That is it exactly.

Do you think there is such a thing as a, nice people fallacy.

AnonySchmoose comments on Jun 21, 2021:

Well, yes... I think it is a fallacy to think that nice people cannot support bad things. If one does not support bad things, and yet ***does nothing*** to counteract bad things, that is not opposing bad things. If one believes something is wrong, one needs to do something about it, even a ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

@AmyTheBruce I was thinking more about your lady being someone who supports gay rights, and believes in kindness to all, yet goes to a church which has a gay hate policy, puts money in the tin and recruits new members. Because it is her community church and she thinks the community matters more than abstract political views, (All gay people in her communty are closetted, so she has never knowingly met one.) and because she thinks that the church is not really doing anything.

Well I finally lost it with a potential customer.

Fernapple comments on Jun 21, 2021:

The main thing which put me off religion in the first place, was the character of most Christians. Either the religion has a corrosive effect, which destroys honesty and empathy, or the religion only attracts those who lack those qualities in the first place.

Fernapple replies on Jun 22, 2021:

@Lorajay Yep, that's the trick.

Quantum physics.

Fernapple comments on Jun 21, 2021:

How very silly. Our perceived world is a model constructed by our brains, based on information they receive from our senses, why would there ever have been any reason to suppose that that it was ever anything but a model ? The model may be an accurate representation, of certain things, ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 21, 2021:

@yvilletom Yes a slap to the face is a model constructed in the brain. Pain is no less a mental construct than anything else. You can not feel anything if your brain is put to sleep with anesthetics, but you are perfectly capable of feeling a ghost pain in you leg, like syatica, even when the real injury is to your back. I am sorry you found my post a little long winded, Lenhazell53 does put much the same thing far more succinctly, but then he is very smart. If mine was a little long, perhaps it would have been smart on your part to stop reading before the end.

Quantum physics.

rainmanjr comments on Jun 21, 2021:

If we're hovering then doesn't that resist gravity?

Fernapple replies on Jun 21, 2021:

Effectively electrical levitation.

It is better to be an outspoken atheist than a hypocrite.

twitch comments on Jun 20, 2021:

This pretty much says it all...

Fernapple replies on Jun 21, 2021:

And if your behaviour involves borrowing second hand beliefs, from unwashed, unlettered, bronze age goatherders, then that says a lot about you.

Well I finally lost it with a potential customer.

Fernapple comments on Jun 21, 2021:

The main thing which put me off religion in the first place, was the character of most Christians. Either the religion has a corrosive effect, which destroys honesty and empathy, or the religion only attracts those who lack those qualities in the first place.

Fernapple replies on Jun 21, 2021:

@BufftonBeotch Plus the arrogance that comes from thinking they are special people and chosen to have special wisdom and insight.

Who believes in life after death

Matias comments on Jun 20, 2021:

I am sure that life will not go extinct after my death.

Fernapple replies on Jun 20, 2021:

Sadly, a lot of it may go extinct before your death.

I'm finally back in Menorca after 20 months absence.

Fernapple comments on Jun 16, 2021:

Wonderful. Do you also know the Balsam Poplar, Populus balsamifera, we can just about grow it here in the UK, but its scent is never as good as it is in the heat of the Med ? It also can be a bit untidy, but also worth the tolerance.

Fernapple replies on Jun 20, 2021:

@fishline79 Interesting thank you.

Why do you identify as being agnostic?

RichCC comments on Jun 19, 2021:

I 'identify as agnostic' in situations where people seem uncomfortable discussing atheism. I read a thought from Greta Christina many years ago that represents my thoughts on the issue well. I'm paraphrasing from memory here so I apologize for inaccuracies in the specific wording. Throughout ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 19, 2021:

Reminds me of the comment about the God Of The Gaps. The gaps are getting smaller all the time, your god keeps shrinking, but never seems to grow back.

Why do you identify as being agnostic?

MrDragon comments on Jun 19, 2021:

I am agnostic because I am open to all probabilities.

Fernapple replies on Jun 19, 2021:

@MrDragon You are very wise.

Why do you identify as being agnostic?

ChestRockfield comments on Jun 19, 2021:

I suppose I'm agnostic about those things too, and atheist about all of them. If you want to consider theoretical degrees of agnosticism, I guess I feel there's a greater degree of certainty about unicorns and faeries because there's no currently-unknown information they can fill the gap for and ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 19, 2021:

@Cast1es If you go by the old testament desription, it is so obvious that they are refering to rhinos, that you wonder how anyone could think anything else.

Why do you identify as being agnostic?

MrDragon comments on Jun 19, 2021:

I am agnostic because I am open to all probabilities.

Fernapple replies on Jun 19, 2021:

@MrDragon No you just could not remember how to spell it. True ? LOL

Has anyone heard something like, " Progressive Christians are going to hell"?

xenoview comments on Jun 19, 2021:

Sounds like your friend likes to judge people when his bible says not to. Just ignore the threat of hell. Ask him or her to show you where in the bible it says your going to hell.

Fernapple replies on Jun 19, 2021:

Yes that is right. Even Jesus, if he said anything at all, only said put the weeds in the fire and burn them, as in once, not forever.

This works whether or not you believe in science or magic, highly effective.

KateOahu comments on Jun 16, 2021:

Have been employing that incantation for years.

Fernapple replies on Jun 17, 2021:

@MsKathleen Oh you can do it in European English as well !

“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he’d have such an uneasy vanity as to be...

Fernapple comments on Jun 17, 2021:

"I want my god to be a small god, a petty god." I can't remember who said that.

Fernapple replies on Jun 17, 2021:

@Marionville I think that may be it, well done.

“I’m afraid I don’t believe there is such a thing as blasphemy, just outrage from those who ...

Word comments on Jun 16, 2021:

I did some research on blasphemy because of this post. Thought it interesting what I come across. Blasphemy is an insult that shows contempt, disrespect or lack of reverence concerning a deity, a sacred object or something considered inviolable.[1][2][3][4] wikipedia - blasphemy Clicking ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 17, 2021:

@Word Theocracy can not be a, "government by gods" since even if gods exist, which seems unlikely, they certainly don't govern. Theocracy has to be religion turned into a legal system, because there is nothing else. Religion is "helping widows and orphans" is only your definition of religion, but it is in the nature of religion that every religious person gets to define it however they want. So if I wanted to create a religion which made, pushing widows and orphan off the pavement and into the paths of oncomming cars, a requirement of true faith. Then I can do so, and it would be every bit as true a religion as yours.

“I’m afraid I don’t believe there is such a thing as blasphemy, just outrage from those who ...

Word comments on Jun 16, 2021:

I did some research on blasphemy because of this post. Thought it interesting what I come across. Blasphemy is an insult that shows contempt, disrespect or lack of reverence concerning a deity, a sacred object or something considered inviolable.[1][2][3][4] wikipedia - blasphemy Clicking ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 16, 2021:

No, your logic breaks down in several places. In particular in you last paragraph, you equate, disrespect for life, with, disrespect for the sanctity of life. Which are not the same thing at all. I can, for just one example. Respect life as it expresses itself in a tiger, even though I know that one of the main ways in which life is expressed in a tiger, is as a near perfect killing machine which has no respect at all for the sanctity of life. And I can moreover respect that expression of life in a tiger alone, without regard to any other part of a tiger's life, such as its maternal skills and values. Moreover, of course, you also equate killing with disrespect for life, but that is not logical at all, since the main function of all life, not just tigers, is to kill other life. Even plants are evolved to be the most effective killers they can be, since smothering the life out of other plants, in order to dominate the solar energy, water, and mineral supplies, is the main survival strategy of all vegetation. And what about the mercy of helping those animals and humans to die, who are in pain and distress and beyond recovery. Is not helping them out of pain and misery a way of respecting their life, yet without respecting the so called sanctity of life, as defined by, living and not dead. Moreover these things are not even remotely problems to me, or probably to Fry. They are only the sort of problems and complications you get into, when you dip your toes into religion.

As I get older it seems like no matter how slow I'm going I need to remind myself to go slower.

Holysocks comments on Jun 14, 2021:

We need to listen to our body. I'm sure all of us have done stupid things when we were young. Some of us pay for it now. I just quit a job after four days because they had me bending over and reaching to the floor for several hours. I did that for 11years and it trashed my back. Listen to your body!

Fernapple replies on Jun 15, 2021:

Went in part deaf, using heavy machinery, that was in the days before ear protectors.

Interesting message from a Mormon friend who just moved back to Utah.

Secretguy comments on Jun 14, 2021:

Baby steps.

Fernapple replies on Jun 15, 2021:

@deepeddy When I was about three years old, the family doctor told my parents to start me off with Port or Sherry, a little each night to help me sleep. (I was a hyper child.) Good gateway drinks.

They clear felled this area of forest, but left behind the Ash tree, because they only wanted the ...

KateOahu comments on Jun 14, 2021:

Could have been worse; they could have just cut it down for the hell of it.

Fernapple replies on Jun 15, 2021:

They could have, but generally I must say our forestry are very good, and very conservation minded, they will always try to favour native species.

Took a walk today in a nearby meadow, famed for its flowers, and thought that I would do a Monet ...

Davekp comments on Jun 13, 2021:

Orchids or a variety of lupines?

Fernapple replies on Jun 13, 2021:

No orchids, if you take a look at the flowers closely. Besides which we have no Lupins like that in the UK

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not ...

JackPedigo comments on Jun 12, 2021:

Sad state of affairs and we went through this very thing with the tobacco companies and now the gun companies.

Fernapple replies on Jun 12, 2021:

Not to mention the preisthood.

Growing a few weeds in my garden.

RussRAB comments on Jun 12, 2021:

These flowers grew wild in my grandparents' home in northern Ohio. As little kids, we would pick them along with all sorts of other wildflowers. But I don't recall the flowers being quite as large as yours in the pictures. Could be a different variety. I agree with @HippieChick, "weeds" are plants ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 12, 2021:

They are perhaps not quite as big as the photo makes them seem, but they do have fluffy thistledown heads of seeds as well.

Today's hike: Climbing Mt. Beehive and blue Lupine showing off.

Fernapple comments on Jun 11, 2021:

Great photos. I wonder who gave the mountain its name, and what it looks like from afar. In other words, if it is really beehive shaped.

Fernapple replies on Jun 11, 2021:

@LiterateHiker Lovely Photos. Thank you.

This does not go into any great depth sadly.

K9Kohle789 comments on Jun 9, 2021:

I watched it and the first bird got it right all the time cuz the guy never changed hands with the treat.

Fernapple replies on Jun 10, 2021:

@K9Kohle789 I had to look twice.

"We must rewild the world.

Buttercup comments on Jun 9, 2021:

It could help global warming to restore the tundra grass ecosystem. Plus bringing back woolly mammoths would be so cool.

Fernapple replies on Jun 9, 2021:

@Buttercup Great idea.

This does not go into any great depth sadly.

K9Kohle789 comments on Jun 9, 2021:

I watched it and the first bird got it right all the time cuz the guy never changed hands with the treat.

Fernapple replies on Jun 9, 2021:

I think that the video is on a loop.

“Dear future generations: please accept our apologies.

mcgeo52 comments on Jun 9, 2021:

Not a great excuse, even though it has been true. No longer an excuse.

Fernapple replies on Jun 9, 2021:

@Marionville Some will never be convinced, even when they are on the point of death, from hunger and thirst, in a desert of their own making. They will still gasp with their last breath. "But it was not our doing."

A truly inclusive vision of America recognizes the nonreligious, too .

Lorajay comments on Jun 8, 2021:

I hope he can figure out how to do it without alienating the religious.

Fernapple replies on Jun 9, 2021:

That is of course hard. Because many of the religious want to play victim, so they are deliberately looking for the chance to be alienated. But having said that, that atitude is probably, mainly or even completely on the nationalist right of religion, who are already alienated from Biden. The left however could see it as building bridges, so that they will not change their support for Biden because of it, meaning that it could make little difference to the religious vote, if handled carefully, and presented as bridge building.

A truly inclusive vision of America recognizes the nonreligious, too .

KateOahu comments on Jun 8, 2021:

Can’t see the article, as I am not a subscriber.

Fernapple replies on Jun 9, 2021:

There is a 'close' button on the pop-up which blocks the page, but the button is top left instead of top right as is normal, and its rather faint. I have a feeling they may be trying to hide it.

This is a link to an article is about some of the well known people in the atheist movement and how ...

David1955 comments on Jun 8, 2021:

Yeah, this article is doing the rounds, here and online. The last of a long line of attacks against prominent atheist activists. It seems I've been reading such articles since the early 2000s. I pay them little mind.

Fernapple replies on Jun 8, 2021:

@creative51 Yes but you have to remember that, to a large extent, especially in countries like America, with strong theist political and media present, the theists get to pick the face of atheism. Therefore some you may approve of will languish in the medias back rooms, because the last thing the theist media wants is nice atheists.

A question for this group, or anyone who may know something about the practice of genetics, there is...

Buttercup comments on Jun 7, 2021:

Sequences overlap and differ in length, so you won't find a non human chain in between two human chains. It was a huge problem when first sequencing the entire human genome and remains a problem to this day when sequencing paleontological samples because they are so broken up. Also many sequences ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 7, 2021:

Outstanding, thank you.

As I’ve continued to free my mind from the 30+ years of brainwashing, and indoctrinated , There is...

Fernapple comments on Jun 7, 2021:

If you have an inerrant code to work from, then you gain two benefits. Firstly, you do not have to make any effort or think about any issues, address any moral questions, or find the strength to live with uncertainties. It is the ultimate, lazy and cowardly, get-out. While secondly, if you pick ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 7, 2021:

@abyers1970 Yes that is very true. The other big thing of course is social conformity, wanting to fit in not be different and not rock the boat.

Just a passing thought.

Petter comments on Jun 7, 2021:

Red is also the colour of danger. Draw your own conclusions!

Fernapple replies on Jun 7, 2021:

And blood.

Godless grifters: How the New Atheists merged with the far right | Salon.com

Fernapple comments on Jun 7, 2021:

So what. Nobody is ever perfect, if you waited for a perfect person to come along before you would consider any of their views worth listening to, then you would be sitting alone in perfect silence for a very long time.

Fernapple replies on Jun 7, 2021:

@Druvius Beware of the echo chamber, and not getting out among enough people. I am pretty sure that I personally have BOTH, views right wing enough to make Rush Limbaugh blush, as well as some so far left, they would make Leon Trotsky gibber. Plus a lot in between, and some that nobody else would believe could even exist. And what is more I don't see any logical inconsistencies between them. And I am not that sure I am all that different from a lot of people.

Is there a pseudoscience you absolutely hate? Why?

Fernapple comments on Jun 6, 2021:

That is a pretty good list. But there is of course no hard boundary between the two, so that one or two do have some limited scientific respectability. Such as fasting, without the brackets (body cleansing), which has some genuine scientific support.

Fernapple replies on Jun 7, 2021:

@Pedrohbds That is perfectly correct, my thoughts too. The problem of course is, that if people are not trained and or encouraged to follow critical thinking and healthy sceptical methods, then anything sourced from anywhere, including good science and philosophy, is no different from religion and can be used, and misused in the same way.

The Horse Chestnuts are in flower now in the UK.

RussRAB comments on Jun 6, 2021:

They remind me of Ohio Buckeyes which is the state tree of Ohio. Also known as Horse Chestnuts, they appear to be different species - Aesculus hippocastanum referred to here as the European Horse Chestnut, and Aesculus glabra for the North American variety. Here in Texas, I've seen a Mexican ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 7, 2021:

Ah, you call them Buckeyes, I did not know that, thank you. Great photos.

The Horse Chestnuts are in flower now in the UK.

JackPedigo comments on Jun 6, 2021:

Are you kidding. They are everywhere in this country. I have a giant one and a smaller one in my front yard. Here's two shots one of the larger and the 2nd of both the larger and smaller when blooming. Those trees have become the bane of my existence. Constant pruning and cleaning up the huge ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2021:

They can be a pest yes.

Not a bad idea, is it?

Druvius comments on Jun 6, 2021:

Turns out it's a farce, no surprise: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-57372682

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2021:

Me not surprised either.

A members comment just reminded me.

Julie808 comments on Jun 6, 2021:

Oh man oh man, I need a sign like that for my door! Unfortunately I would not have the guts to post it. It would be meant for one particular person, and she'd know it! Haha!

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2021:

Of course she would. But perhaps it would be indirect and ambiguous enough that you could get away with it. LOL

Noah's Ark: The Story That Disproves the Entire Bible - YouTube

Fernapple comments on Jun 6, 2021:

How very sad that someone, obviously not stupid or lazy, has to waste such a huge amount of time, on the trivial business of trying to disprove the literal truth of a very silly and very old mixed up story. I do hope he finds a worthwhile pursuit in life one day. Though perhaps helping other people ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2021:

@MikeInBatonRouge Yes that is how I see it.

Noah's Ark: The Story That Disproves the Entire Bible - YouTube

Fernapple comments on Jun 6, 2021:

How very sad that someone, obviously not stupid or lazy, has to waste such a huge amount of time, on the trivial business of trying to disprove the literal truth of a very silly and very old mixed up story. I do hope he finds a worthwhile pursuit in life one day. Though perhaps helping other people ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2021:

@David1955 Prefect anology.

Believing in an invisible man in the sky does not make it real.

LovinLarge comments on Jun 5, 2021:

It is the perfect scam. Imagine if you wanted to trick someone into doing something. You'd tell them if they did it, they would receive immortality. You'd tell them you couldn't prove it to them now, but if they just did what you wanted now, when they died they would live forever in paradise ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2021:

I always like to think of it as being like a car dealer. Who sells cars, that will only be delivered to your old house, after you have moved perminantly to live and work in another county. Who would buy one of those ?