The greatest story ever told, does not I think come from the bible.

Cast1es comments on Dec 26, 2019:

Apocryphal , should have been in the unusual words list - new one to me , at any rate . Meaning , an adjective meaning sotry widly thought to be true , but not .

Fernapple replies on Dec 26, 2019:

In the biblical sense of added on at the end.

There are individuals who believe that being spiritual and religious are not the same thing.

LiterateHiker comments on Dec 25, 2019:

Hiking is a transcendent, uplifting and spiritual experience for me. I have been an atheist since age 13. Since age 21, I have hiked over 200 miles/year with over 50,000' of elevation gain. It's awe-inspiring. I feel grounded and centered high in the mountains.

Fernapple replies on Dec 26, 2019:

@BitFlipper Yes no one is sure why but I have heard that too, several times. It may also provide inspiration and enhance problem solving. It could be that back in the day when we were hunter gatherers, our brains took walking as a sign that we had started work, and that it was now time to put our high mental powers into gear.

Viburnum X bodnantense is perhaps the best winter flower there is, nearly all though the winter it ...

dede18 comments on Dec 25, 2019:

it's a small shrub, isn't it? would love a twig of that in the house right now :-) for the fragrance

Fernapple replies on Dec 25, 2019:

Medium sized, six to ten feet after twelve years.

Camus passed in 1960, so this quote was written as a minimum 59 years ago.

Freedompath comments on Dec 23, 2019:

I believe!

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@Freedompath Ah! I thought that you were being ironic, and using believe in the theist sense.

"After the game the King and the pawn go into the same box". Italian proverb

IamNobody comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Well we are interested while the game is on, not when it's over and everything goes back to the box. Of course IamNot Italian, so......

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

Having a literal day are we ?

A vase a bowl and some Holly from the garden, it seem enough to celebrate the winter solstice, at ...

dede18 comments on Dec 24, 2019:

love the composition, and wish I had a bench in front of a window like you do! I was curious to find the berries on your holly, so I tweaked your pic to enhance the light ... still no berries, but beautiful variegated leaves :-) I've only seen the ordinary, solid green leaves and I love yours! ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

No, that varigated form is male, so no berries. It is a common joke that the two best known varigated forms are Golden King, which is female, and Silver Queen, which is male.

A vase a bowl and some Holly from the garden, it seem enough to celebrate the winter solstice, at ...

Killtheskyfairy comments on Dec 24, 2019:

What no ivy?

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@Killtheskyfairy Here you go. Enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhYFzaWlQz8

Why are some people barred from the Senate? It doesn't sound very democratic.

Fernapple comments on Dec 24, 2019:

I thought that the senate was the only place where you could not get barred ?

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@FrayedBear Strange, why would you bar someone from the senate and not kick them of the site altogether ?

A vase a bowl and some Holly from the garden, it seem enough to celebrate the winter solstice, at ...

Killtheskyfairy comments on Dec 24, 2019:

What no ivy?

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@Killtheskyfairy Its a lovely song, do you also know. "The oak and the ash and the bonny ivy tree." Or is that just a UK thing.

A vase a bowl and some Holly from the garden, it seem enough to celebrate the winter solstice, at ...

Killtheskyfairy comments on Dec 24, 2019:

What no ivy?

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

No Ivy grows like a weed in my garden, I get fed up with it, may bring some viburnum in tomorrow for the scent though.

There's a Pooping Man in the Catalan Nativity Scene | HowStuffWorks

Organist1 comments on Dec 23, 2019:

Funny! I'd love to see one made of Trump!

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

There is a photo of one in the article.

Camus passed in 1960, so this quote was written as a minimum 59 years ago.

Freedompath comments on Dec 23, 2019:

I believe!

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

I hope not.

Being with someone with dementia

1of5 comments on Dec 23, 2019:

I'm getting to deal with both my mom and stepdad's losing battle with dementia. It's hard dealing with the bad decisions, forgotten dates, fixing thier financials on a quarterly basis, worrying about them hurting themselves (again), dreading every call from them or the doctors office, and putting ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@1of5 Yes it must be very hard when it is very slow, mother only took about three years in all, though there were a few early signs. My wife died of cancer in my ealy forties, and fortunately that was also relatively quick, only three months, as did my father, so I will not have to face that with them. But I am sorry to say that my best friend and traveling companion, who is a lot older than me, shows signs that may be the beginings, hoping not, because she was such a vibrant person, it will seem doubly sad.

Sometimes a concept is baffling not because it is profound but because it is wrong. - E.O. Wilson

Fernapple comments on Dec 22, 2019:

And sometimes it is dressed in baffling language so that you can't see where it is wrong.

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@Diogenes Possibly, though I think that there have been far better exponents of it. But then I think there have been far better exponents of everything.

I am currently watching the Hollywood epic "The greatest story ever told".

Fernapple comments on Dec 23, 2019:

I don't think that the film is an accurate account of any of the four biblical stories, and many people before have said that the bible stories themselves do not make any sense anyway. One common theory is, that Paul was responsible for putting a pro Roman twist on to the story, but that it was not ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@Moravian Yes it was on our TV last night, only caught a bit of it, but Telly Savalas asks Jesus what god it is he follows. So are we to think that, he is living in an empire where there is a huge Jewish population, and has been made govenor of the Jewish state, and he does not know what god the Jews worship ?!!!

Being with someone with dementia

1of5 comments on Dec 23, 2019:

I'm getting to deal with both my mom and stepdad's losing battle with dementia. It's hard dealing with the bad decisions, forgotten dates, fixing thier financials on a quarterly basis, worrying about them hurting themselves (again), dreading every call from them or the doctors office, and putting ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 23, 2019:

A lot of us have been there, and you are never alone. Take care of yourself first , you may need your strength. I watched my mother go, and in the end her brain lost it power to regulate her body temprature, so that she spent the last weeks of her life in bed taking the blanket off, saying I am hot, and then pulling it back again, saying I am cold, fifty times an hour. But at least in her case it was mercifully quick, just a year or so.

I am just loving the country now that it is all bleak and bare.

creative51 comments on Dec 23, 2019:

Nice picture, but if you think these are bleak and bare, you have just not really seen bleak and bare. Just saying.

Fernapple replies on Dec 23, 2019:

Only bleak and bare by UK standards admitedly.

Maybe adding appeal to secularism, rather than talking stink on religion, is a more productive ...

oldFloyd comments on Dec 23, 2019:

How does one add appeal to rational thought.

Fernapple replies on Dec 23, 2019:

Yep, it either is or it isn't. And if it is, then, it is, whether it is popular and liked or not.

“If someone tells you who they are, believe them." - Maya Angelou

Sticks48 comments on Dec 22, 2019:

They still see the Emperor as fully clothed.

Fernapple replies on Dec 23, 2019:

Ah! Trump naked. Please don't put that picture in my mind. LOL

I am just loving the country now that it is all bleak and bare.

Lincoln55 comments on Dec 22, 2019:

I love this type of shot. the road starts at bottom right corner and leads your eye directly to the tree, stark against the cloudy sky. Beautiful picture.

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2019:

Thank you. Do my best to entertain. I put a slightly different version of the same shot in the Natural History group if you want to compare. https://agnostic.com/group/naturalhistory/post/441101/i-like-the-country-when-it-is-bare-but-it-is-a-wonder-that-the-wildlife-survives-at-all-without-an

I think we've had very similar quizzes before - it's very quick, 15 Q's, and at the end an ...

hankster comments on Dec 22, 2019:

14, they got the one about the automatic salvation in protestantism wrong.

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2019:

Me too, I think that was the one we all struggled with, it was a little, arguable, as Allamanda says.

Is the entire universe God?[mindmatters.ai]

Storm1752 comments on Dec 22, 2019:

Just a question; I've read the article twice and it still makes no sense but, hey, if all these scientists think it's absurdity is not obvious, who am I to laugh?

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2019:

You are perfectly entitled to laugh, not to do so just because there are so many, would be an example of the 'vox populi fallacy'. Enjoy.

I think we've had very similar quizzes before - it's very quick, 15 Q's, and at the end an ...

AnonySchmoose comments on Dec 22, 2019:

14 ... Did not think I would do that well.

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2019:

You did very well, the same as me. After all we would not want people to think we are perfect would we.

I am just loving the country now that it is all bleak and bare.

Lavergne comments on Dec 22, 2019:

It's funny you say that....we are on 10 acres of heavily wooded land and most people think its ugly during the winter months when the trees are bare. I think the property is actually very pretty during the winter - the entire ground is carpeted with the fallen leaves - like a huge brown mosaic - ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2019:

Sounds wonderful. Is that the Apellations

I am just loving the country now that it is all bleak and bare.

Robecology comments on Dec 22, 2019:

I'm guessing you rarely see snow there. Beautiful images. Enjoy a damp, cool, but sunny winter!

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2019:

I do, though I could do without the damp. And yes snow is rare, we get five or ten days most winters a month sometimes.

[cnn.com]

FearlessFly comments on Dec 22, 2019:

I'm annoyed at the ongoing use of BC/AD instead of BCE/CE

Fernapple replies on Dec 22, 2019:

You wonder if they normally use CE but change it for populist articles, because they want to appease the more stupid christians. Yuk.

Ancient Evenings Fun!

EyesThatSmile comments on Dec 21, 2019:

Very nice! (But my second thought was...doesn’t a tigress usually have more than two teats?)

Fernapple replies on Dec 21, 2019:

@MoonTigerII Lioness. The godess of the Nile.

Had a chance to stop and take a snapshot with my phone on my way to school to pick up the kids.

Fernapple comments on Dec 21, 2019:

Good shooting, but don't take your eye of the road too long.

Fernapple replies on Dec 21, 2019:

@Mark013 Yep. me too I have the maximum no claims on my insurance. I never saw the point of reckless driving, if you want to take risks, there are plenty of off road and race tracks venues where you are not endangering anyone but yourself.

Albert Camus was always the optimistic, and he was good....

Freedompath comments on Dec 20, 2019:

If it just didn’t signify, cold waiting in the wings!

Fernapple replies on Dec 21, 2019:

Makes you aware of just how important it is to grab every vital second.

Why Doing Good Makes It Easier To Be Bad.

Fernapple comments on Dec 20, 2019:

Especially as so much of Christianity as a religion is about providing people with fake ways to do good. Examples. Donate to the church when they hold out the collection plate, saves you having to find a charity and make sure your money is well spent. Confess to the priest, saves you having to own ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 21, 2019:

@linxminx I think that another way of looking at it is. We all have only so much to give, money , time, care, effort etc. and if we use that up in church, there is nothing left for the rest of the world. Its the same idea just looking at it from the other side.

Why Doing Good Makes It Easier To Be Bad.

genessa comments on Dec 20, 2019:

It never worked that way for me. g

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

Yes being rational is a terrible curse.

This is wrong

Fernapple comments on Dec 20, 2019:

And some people have said that the US is not an empire ?!

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@maturin1919 That's what empires do, they get other people to do their fighting for them, make empty promisses, and then dump them when they are finished.

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

Donotbelieve comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Pass

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@skado Yes that is sad, fortunately I am out there enjoying my gifts, so I have not time to go fetch him. A bit selfish of me perhaps.

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

Donotbelieve comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Pass

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@skado No it should just fade away. We have art, philosopy, tradition and ritual, which is sometimes confussed with religion, we need nothing more for our emotional well being. The parable of the good parent. Once there was a kind parent who had four children and wished to give something wonderful to them. So the good parent saved up money and spent a lot of time and effort on producing a wonderful gift for their four children, the best gift they could think of. The parent's children however, were all very different. Two were very good children, who were always understanding and appreciative, but two who were spoiled and ungrateful. So that when the parent gave the children their gifts they each responded differently. The first of the good children unwrapped the gift and then sat back in amazement, just staring at the wonder of it, so beautiful and amazing did the gift seem. And the parent was pleased, for though the child was quiet the parent knew that it was happy, for that was the wise and appreciative child who knew how to live well and the true value of things. The second good child dived into the gift, and started to take it carefully apart. But the parent was still pleased because they knew that the second child was the explorer, and that its greatest joy was knowing how things worked, came apart and went back together. “Let the child discover and all the science and knowledge it can gain, it is as much an act of appreciation as the first showed.” The third child however was badly spoiled, and when it opened its gift, it screamed and cried and threw the gift against the wall. Saying. “I do not want the same gift as the others, I want something better than them, what good are gifts if everyone gets the same, that does not tell me I am special, this is an evil gift.” The fourth child was also badly spoiled, but thought itself a little more clever than the other spoiled child. And it began to take the gift apart. The parent thinking that it was an explorer too, asked it what it was doing. But the child replied. “The gift is such a poor one and no different or better than the others got, so I know the 'REAL' gift is hidden inside.” And it then continued to tear the gift to pieces ever more frantically. _______________ We need not ask what the parent thought of and felt about each child's reaction, that would be a rhetorical question too far. It is also perhaps barely needful to explain in any way, that in the metaphor the parent is our material universe, and/or any life force we may or may not think is behind it. While the good children are those who receive the gift of life and the wonders of the material universe gratefully. The third child is the religious child who not only wants more than it was given, but ...

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

Donotbelieve comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Pass

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@skado Quite as I said how can science be opposed to something that does not exist. Art, golf and philosophy etc. all have real content.

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

Donotbelieve comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Pass

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@skado Then if it is 100% natural why call it religion ?

In the beginning people create God.

Geoffrey51 comments on Dec 19, 2019:

The important question is why.

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 The lies as spoken of are not all deliberate deceit, I should perhaps have explained, but in these terms I take them to to include all falsehoods including those generated by a collective psychic.

In the beginning people create God.

Geoffrey51 comments on Dec 19, 2019:

The important question is why.

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

No it is the 'how' that is important. What happen was that people evolved/invented language, and that gave them a vast new capacity to lie, far beyond anything they had ever had before. And because language and its side effects were new things, old biological evolution had given us no tools to deal with it or its side effects. So that people had no bag in which to put the new lies and keep them safe, in consequence some of them started to run around wild, doing all sorts of damage and harm. But the reason why the lies were created in the first place hardly matters, because they could have been created for totally trivial reasons, the lies moved on and got so far from their starting points, the reasons they existed in the first place became irrelevant.

“I could not understand why men who knew all about good and evil could hate and kill each ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2019:

Thinking they knew about good and evil, was the problem, and still is. In fact you could make a good case for, even believing there are such things as good and evil, being at the heart of the problem.

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@yvilletom The two are complimentary. Since high levels of testosterone provide the motivation, but my comment is about the logically false possition, that the motivation provided by high testoterone pushes them into.

“I could not understand why men who knew all about good and evil could hate and kill each ...

yvilletom comments on Dec 20, 2019:

Am I overdoing this?

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@yvilletom On this site you only get to be slapped by the females a lot. LOL PS. also see my reply below.

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

Donotbelieve comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Pass

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@skado Let us suppose just for the sake of argument that there is a higher intelligence behind the universe, call it god, the great spirit, the originator or the life force. I am a soft atheist after all, so that, I freely admit that I can not disprove the existence of such a thing, all that I require is that you agree also that if such a thing existed, it could have some sort of intelligence, and not just be a blind supernatural force, as yet undiscovered by physics.

“I could not understand why men who knew all about good and evil could hate and kill each ...

yvilletom comments on Dec 20, 2019:

Am I overdoing this?

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

Yes, but we are making allowance for your high levels of testosterone.

What a gorgeous end to such a beautiful day.

MissKathleen comments on Dec 19, 2019:

Yaaaaay! I am SICK of these 5:30 sunsets.

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@MissKathleen Sadly its 4-30 here.

Thanks to everyone that has made this the best online forum! I just hit lvl 9.

Fernapple comments on Dec 20, 2019:

Well done. And I think you are right, it would be a good idea if reasons could be flagged up when groups and posts are taken down. Though I have heard that several eights and nines have left, sometimes because they have become unhappy.

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@TheGreatShadow Yes I quite agree, I came here looking for an excape from facebook which I am forced to do for business reasons. But I retire soon, and then goodbye FB.

How do you all feel about Omnism?

Fernapple comments on Dec 18, 2019:

It depends what you mean by Omnism, there are several alternatives, but to address some. If you go into the restaurant and try to eat everything on the menu you will make yourself ill. If you go into a restaurant and say, do not show me the menu, anything will do, you are foolish. (We are ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 20, 2019:

@FiliusInfernum Yes I think that is more or less the same as my fifth para, just avove the Dawkins quote.

Well, this is my first post so I don't know really what to say.

Geoffrey51 comments on Dec 19, 2019:

Just make an insightful post, with clarity about anything. Just don’t blather on for several hundred words not saying anything as is frequent and dull here.

Fernapple replies on Dec 19, 2019:

@Bierbasstard Quite.

Well, this is my first post so I don't know really what to say.

Geoffrey51 comments on Dec 19, 2019:

Just make an insightful post, with clarity about anything. Just don’t blather on for several hundred words not saying anything as is frequent and dull here.

Fernapple replies on Dec 19, 2019:

@Bierbasstard Especially the news sites that want to fill your comoputer with cookies and adds, or charge you for reading.

I’ve listened patiently for a few months trying to understand the dichotomy between Agnostics & ...

resserts comments on Dec 18, 2019:

Atheists come in different varieties. The basic definition of atheism is one who lacks belief or disbelieves in a God or gods. There are implicit atheists (e.g., babies and puppies) who have no concept of any god and therefore lack belief, and there are explicit atheists who understand the concept...

Fernapple replies on Dec 19, 2019:

Good clear and not too long, they should post this at the top of the front page for all the Newbies to read. (Save having to answer this question fifty times a month.) For added interest I always call myself a 'broard church sceptic'.

I’ve listened patiently for a few months trying to understand the dichotomy between Agnostics & ...

PondartIncbendog comments on Dec 18, 2019:

I don't believe in generalization. The splitting of non believers groups is caustic. This internal tribalism is not healthy to the movement.

Fernapple replies on Dec 19, 2019:

Always call myself a 'broard church sceptic'. (But I spell it the UK way.)

This may resonate with non-Christians of whatever stripe over the holidays - [wbur.org]

djs64 comments on Dec 18, 2019:

I'll worship a tree any day of the week. With a sun on top and the tree decorated with fungi, insects, and birds, that is the way I celebrate the winter solstice.

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2019:

LIke the sun that is really appropriate.

I like this, don't no why.

dede18 comments on Dec 17, 2019:

Indeed a beautiful version ... thus far Hayley Westenra’s rendition has been my favorite, but this one definitely grabbed me! did find the excessive glitter on eyes AND lips distracting, so I closed my eyes ... made it even lovelier, just hearing and no seeing!

Fernapple replies on Dec 18, 2019:

Yes you are the second person to comment on the glitter, maybe its a Danish thing.

I like this, don't no why.

rogerbenham comments on Dec 17, 2019:

Wow it must be hell when she gets that glitter on her lids in her eyes! Yes Enya music clearly. I downloaded the movies, skimmed through them and decided not to watch all that violence. I was first read the books when I was 11 or 12 and had nightmares about the Dark Riders. Later read the books ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 17, 2019:

@rogerbenham Sounds wonderful.

I like this, don't no why.

rogerbenham comments on Dec 17, 2019:

Wow it must be hell when she gets that glitter on her lids in her eyes! Yes Enya music clearly. I downloaded the movies, skimmed through them and decided not to watch all that violence. I was first read the books when I was 11 or 12 and had nightmares about the Dark Riders. Later read the books ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 17, 2019:

Yes that is what I thought about the films. Sometimes bad films have good soundtracks, because of course they are really two different works of art. I remember watching and loving 'Amadeus' once, and then I saw it a second time and hated it, thinking what a silly, historically inacurate load of old soap. But of course the difference was that the second viewing was a 'cut', and of course what they had cut out was all the music.

THE RESULTS Earlier I posted a thread asking why only about 1% of registered users seem to be ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 17, 2019:

Dating. Don't have an opinion. I asked what was the point of it once, and was told that we have had several marriages ! Groups. Yes there are a lot and I think it should be made harder to start new ones, but I can not see that they put members of, and remember that if you do get the numbers of ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 17, 2019:

@Bierbasstard Sorry to say that I started a group a bit since, and am making most of the posts, not all I am happy to say, but of course when it is new you hope it will grow, so you try to keep it rollling. If it does not grow, then in six months or so I shall be well ready to close it.

‘Journalism is dying’: US govt ‘has its tentacles’ in every part of media, reporter who quit...

Fernapple comments on Dec 16, 2019:

You have to think though. RT does not of course come from a country where the government takes a hand in the press. I have watched RT for a long time, and the complete about face, and the change from reasoned reporting to blatant America bashing which occured when Putin took over, was stark.

Fernapple replies on Dec 17, 2019:

@Archeus_Lore Yep. you do deserve the bashing perhaps, but let us hope that the report of the death of the free press, is a bit premature.

What can be done about the inactive members problem on this site?

Fernapple comments on Dec 16, 2019:

That's about normal for most sites, groups and clubs, perhaps a little low but not that much. Sites of any sort which have ten percent or more active members, are very rare, lots of people join lots of things and then never take part, it is the same everywhere. We are though perhaps a little ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 17, 2019:

@Sgt_Spanky Yep. I think it is the first one mainly, that a lot of people just come for curiosity then go.

I'd like to make a suggestion as I watch more folks jump ship over moral differences with the site ...

Fernapple comments on Dec 16, 2019:

You can hide groups, just do that with the ones you don't like. If they still appear on your page then you have reason to contact Admin.

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

@RavenCT Then contact Admin. shame to loose good members over fixable things.

I saw this in the next village, some very neat stylish hedge cutting, obviously a work of passion, ...

moosepucky comments on Dec 16, 2019:

Well beyond my desires. I do have some full size Bonsai 😁

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

They look very good.

When I joined this site almost 2 yrs ago, I had high hopes for a conversation with like minded ...

Marionville comments on Dec 15, 2019:

No...I don’t understand a word of that post. What rules are getting too much for you? It feels like you and I are on completely different sites!

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

Agreed.

(LINK) "I understand why it’s hard for normal people to believe that white evangelical Christians ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 16, 2019:

So my siblings are sadists? Wow, I would never have suspected! And my parents? How did they manage to conceal their sadism all those years that I was growing up? It’s a damn good thing Hilary Clinton was not elected because she is a card-carrying member of the United Methodist Church, which ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Appears he contradicts himself, not surprising, not a great article.

I saw this in the next village, some very neat stylish hedge cutting, obviously a work of passion, ...

Allamanda comments on Dec 16, 2019:

I wonder if it matches part of the house? Nicely done!

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

Not that I could see, you can see part of the house in the photo.

(LINK) "I understand why it’s hard for normal people to believe that white evangelical Christians ...

linxminx comments on Dec 16, 2019:

"For instance: Not only is it OK to cheat women out of equal pay for equal work because they are women; women *actually want* to be cheated." Socially accepted sadism. This describes Baylor University when I worked there. Meanness-hate-viciousness-discrimination, justified because they ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

@Marionville The article did include misogyny as one of its sub types of sadisim.

(LINK) "I understand why it’s hard for normal people to believe that white evangelical Christians ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 16, 2019:

So my siblings are sadists? Wow, I would never have suspected! And my parents? How did they manage to conceal their sadism all those years that I was growing up? It’s a damn good thing Hilary Clinton was not elected because she is a card-carrying member of the United Methodist Church, which ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

Actually the article did not say 'ALL' evangelical christians, and part way through did define the fact that there are other groups within that sect, it was very particular that it was only talking about 'some' E.C.

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

Donotbelieve comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Pass

Fernapple replies on Dec 16, 2019:

@skado Of course they are not opposed, you missread me completely if you think that that is my view. Why should something which hardly exists except as a dream, be in opposition to anything worthwhile. Someone today posted something which about sums everything up very well. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/why-the-best-things-in-life-are-all-backwards?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Does this seem racist?

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 14, 2019:

I don’t know about some of us being mutts. I thought there was supposed to be a continuous churning and selection of genetic traits through evolution. Particular traits are only superior relative to particular environments. Being able to survive and reproduce in a complex society is a valuable ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 15, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Maybe not. Plenty of animal have gone down the route of total dependency, many parasites for example have lots all ability to function outside their host and without its support, exchanging freedom for rapid easy reproduction. And as we become ever more dependent on our technology it will come on faster to us too. Agriculture alone certainly changed human evolution, until ten thousand years or so ago, human brains had been increasing in size, but during the last ten thousand they have started to shrink. Perhaps to survive on a poor diet, brains are expensive, and a post agriculture diet, while more reliable is not as rich as a hunter gatherer diet, and also perhaps because we no longer need them to compete with many other species on the plains of Africa. And as we become ever more dependent on machines, we will no longer need such good social skills. While medicine takes away many of the dangers of aggression yet its benefits to the individual remain, so that we will probably become more aggressive and less social We also have to take into account the new possibilities of genetic modification and engineering, which may only be available to the rich. Which will then deepen the rich poor divide, and perhaps in time create two human species. PS. Jeffmesser. Is incorrect on one or two small points, especially that Africans are the most genetically 'pure' people. In fact genetic variation increases with time, and since humans have been living in Africa far longer than the rest of the world, variation has accumilated there. Meaning that Africans are the most genetically diverse group of peoples in the world. The rest of the worlds populations being only the decendents of a few who escaped from Africa, and despite inputs fromNeanderthals etc. are all very closely related, when compared to the vast differences betweeen Africans. But that can be seen as a strong point fro Africans, since genetic variation is a source of strength, preventing the effects of inbreeding, not 'racial' purity, that is an old outdated racist assumption.

Madison’s reasons for Church State Separation, 1785.

Fernapple comments on Dec 15, 2019:

The other side of the coin though , is that across Northern Europe many countries have state churches of some sort, (though never enforced membership ). And guess what ? Across Northern Europe religion is nearly dead, compared with the US anyway. One of the best reasons for having a state church, is...

Fernapple replies on Dec 15, 2019:

@Gareth True, and I think that it would be a very dangerous trick to try, so I would not seriously recommend it. Having said that, in this case I can see more than just correlation. For one thing when you have a state church, then one of the churches most valuable assests, that it provides an alternate voice to the state, and a refuge and support for political dissidents is removed. Also it becomes tainted by politics and the crimes of politics, (The involvements of chuches in promoting wars for example.) with a lose of credibility. It also suffers a lose of competetive edge when removed from the free market place, where US churches for example have to compete with all sorts of educational establishments and the media for attention, a state church just sits and lives of its assets. Remember we are talking about a single national church, not linking all churches to the state, as with the US tax system. Plus it is also to be noted that the church in Europe is perhaps strongest of all in Russia, where the state tried to ban it.

there seems to me to be way to much animosity towards religion.

skado comments on Dec 14, 2019:

There seems to be way too much misunderstanding about what "religion" is, and isn't. I'm happy to give full credit for that misunderstanding to Richard Dawkins, Chris Hitchens, and a tip o' the hat to Sam Harris. What they really meant was *corrupt* religion, and they know it, and have said as ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 15, 2019:

@Storm1752 Very neat and exact, well said. Personally I have lived most of my life with objective truth and never felt the need for anything more. And I am now so near to mortallity, I can't see that I ever will.

there seems to me to be way to much animosity towards religion.

Fernapple comments on Dec 14, 2019:

Yes they may pass, (not proved but ok) and I am happy in my freedom. But I reserve the right to be outraged, on behalf of those of my fellow humans, and other creatures, who still suffer, and to fear that I may one day be among them.

Fernapple replies on Dec 15, 2019:

@Storm1752 I agree of course. If nobody had ever got outraged, rich people would still be owning slaves and be proud of it, people would be imprisoned for debt, girls who got pregnant would be enslaved by the church, and we would still hang starving children for stealing food.

Does this seem racist?

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 14, 2019:

I don’t know about some of us being mutts. I thought there was supposed to be a continuous churning and selection of genetic traits through evolution. Particular traits are only superior relative to particular environments. Being able to survive and reproduce in a complex society is a valuable ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 15, 2019:

That is a common misunderstanding of Darwinian sellection. Darwinian genetic fitness in todays world is not winning a sporting trophy, but being a fat slow couple who are able to withstand a high fat low fibre diet, live on little exercise, and make lots of babies. Darwinian fitness, means not fit in the physical sense, but, 'best fitted'. ( Someone once joked, not to be taken too seriously, that. "Being stupid enough to not understand how to use contraception, will be the main qualification required for membership of the future master race." )

there seems to me to be way to much animosity towards religion.

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 14, 2019:

It isn't exactly "animosity towards religion", it is the way organized religion treats others, IMO, in direct contradiction to WWJD!

Fernapple replies on Dec 15, 2019:

@AnneWimsey I am with blzjz on this, I had to google WWJD the first time I encoutered it on this site. Too many acronyms are not good. This is after all, an international site, and few countries share the same conventions, it seems unreasonable to over use acronyms, unless they are very common and international, when that means making fifty people google something.

So I am attempting to start a new group, ( it was bound to happen one day ).

Paul4747 comments on Dec 6, 2019:

The entire drive of human history, as far as I can tell, has been to get as far away from nature as possible. Who am I to buck the trend. Good luck, though...

Fernapple replies on Dec 15, 2019:

@Storm1752 True it is often a vicious fight for survival. But does that alone not tell you something? So just quoting Darwin. "It is interesting to contemplate a tangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent upon each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with reproduction; Inheritance which is almost implied by reproduction; Variability from the indirect and direct action of the conditions of life, and from use and disuse; a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less improved forms." He did not say then that this vision was pretty, the phrase he used was. "There is a grandure in this view of life." I would never say that it is comfortable, but neither is life in human society. And the big point is, that we are all culture victims to some degree, even those of us not caught in the extreme forms of culture such as religion. For many people, especially urban people, the only inputs their brains receive, come from human controlled media, and all humans who control media have a hidden agenda, so that many people they can live their whole lives without any input which is not distrorted. What I would say however is how will you ever understand human society, unless you study that which is not human society, and that which produced society in the first place. You can not know the depth of the sea, without sounding to the mud at the bottom.

there seems to me to be way to much animosity towards religion.

Paul4747 comments on Dec 14, 2019:

I'm plenty happy with my freedom. Religion, on the other hand, is not. Therefore, like Jefferson, I have sworn eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

Fernapple replies on Dec 14, 2019:

@blzjz Surender is not freedom.

It's ironic when a Christian say that gays have more rights than them now.

JonnaBononna comments on Dec 14, 2019:

Equality feels like oppression when you are used to privilege.

Fernapple replies on Dec 14, 2019:

That's worth quoting. Will post it in the quotes group.

I also posted this one in Natural History, but it works here too.

JackPedigo comments on Dec 12, 2019:

I only feed the birds in the winter and that with suet. Birds need fat to help them through the winter. I also built a roosting box. https://www.thespruce.com/wild-bird-roosting-boxes-386642 Birds enter from the bottom and there are several perches inside. I open it periodically for cleaning. Maybe ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 13, 2019:

Never tried a roosting box, it sounds very worth while, I think that I will give it a go, thanks for the hint.

Creationists Claim Stonehenge Built By Satanic Giants | Michael Stone

LucyLoohoo comments on Dec 11, 2019:

They walk among us! I once read that the Grand Canyon is the result of Satan trying to confuse us into disbelief about the validity of Noah's flood. If they used their brains as long trying to understand evolution, science...they might actually develop some intelligence.

Fernapple replies on Dec 11, 2019:

I heard one say that the Grand Canyon was the result of the waters from Noahs flood draining away. I love the way when they part with reason, they all start comming up with so many different arguments no two even remotely alike.

The water vole was once a common sight here in the UK, you could hardly ever take a walk by a stream...

Musicmanmike comments on Dec 11, 2019:

Such cute little creatures ! They remind me of the Muskrat here in Canada . To bad the North American Mink has made it to the U.K. also the loss of habitat can be devastating. I hope the breeding in captivity can keep these little Water Voles going ! I wonder if these can be brought to North ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 11, 2019:

A bit smaller than a musk rat I think. They may be harmless but you never know. One of the reasons the Mink may have been so devastating it is thought, is because our otters its natural competitors have been in decline.

Do you think that " I have found god" should mean the same as "A get out of Gaol/Jail free" card.

Sticks48 comments on Dec 10, 2019:

A photograph with God, Bigfoot, and a unicorn together.

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

@KKGator And the bartender says. Sorry we don't serve spirits in here.

Has anyone noticed that this forum, in recent weeks, has started to deteriorate into a ...

DavidDuhon comments on Dec 10, 2019:

yes, and I suspect it is not as much of this particular time as it is of a small number of individuals, who if you run into their presence make it seem like it is everywhere and un-ending. The other FB-esque aspect for me is people simply popping up links. I would be happy if there were no links ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

And not only do they pop up links, but the links are full of pop ups. Some asking for money, data or body parts before they will let you read, what usually turns out to be twaddle with no relation to the posted headline anyway.

“It is not enough to have a good mind; the main thing is to use it well”.

zeuser comments on Dec 10, 2019:

Descartes went into a bar and ordered a beer. After he finished, the bartender asked, "Would you like another beer, Monsieur Descartes?" The old philosopher answered, "I think not", and he disappeared.

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

@zeuser Well that puts me in my place, with a right pair of Co-ordinates.

I think someone in Admin should look into member "Blah Blah" before they make level 7.

freeofgod comments on Dec 10, 2019:

As long as Fred doesn't go back to quoting the bible chapter and verse I have no problem with him. The bible quotes were tiresome. For those I would read the local paper :(

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

He only had one bible quote. He never quoted the whole thing.

“It is not enough to have a good mind; the main thing is to use it well”.

zeuser comments on Dec 10, 2019:

Descartes went into a bar and ordered a beer. After he finished, the bartender asked, "Would you like another beer, Monsieur Descartes?" The old philosopher answered, "I think not", and he disappeared.

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

Groan.

I think someone in Admin should look into member "Blah Blah" before they make level 7.

skado comments on Dec 10, 2019:

I don't think he's a troll. He may be non-neurotypical, but I probably am too. If his ramblings are tedious, maybe blocking is a good remedy, but if his account is deleted he'll just come back with another one. I don't see that he intends any harm. On the rare occasion when I can understand what...

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

And on those occasions when, I can't understand him, I wonder where I can get some of the stuff he's taking.

What Is Religion? - YouTube

Fernapple comments on Dec 9, 2019:

So basically the young man is saying that the definition of the word religion is not clearly defined, and admits of enough subjectivity to require a different usage to be assigned for each user. Apart from the obvious, (That that is something which applies to every word, and that people who ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

@maturin1919 It is to address the clusterfuck that you require people to explain their usages, there is no other way round it. Words do not have meanings, only usages. And dictionaries list usages, just look in the average dictionary and you will find few words with single simple meanings listed. That is they way things are whether we like it or not, and there is no power on earth known, which is able to alter that. . The idea that words have meanings, is one of the greatest sources of error in human life, perhaps even as great as religion. A typical example being people who think that when they have defined an a word, they heave made an argument, when in fact no word ever proved anything. Aroute that this young man, wisely, just stoppped short of going down. We are all culture victims, with our human cultures standing between us and a true understanding of the world, we can however at least be aware of that, and keep in mind many of the traps into which our cultures lead us. Of which the belief that, language is a source of truth, instead of just a messy, undesigned and and distorted series of historical accidents often infected with past attempts to deliberately distort the thruth is perhaps one of the worst.

This is something for the US. I wish we had these beautiful birds here in the UK. [youtube.com]

henthabox comments on Dec 9, 2019:

This is the common Jay for the eastern U.S. Very bossy and loud. In the western states the Steller's Jay abounds. All of the Jays are true corvids in their behavior. But, yes, they are undeniably, ostentatiously beautiful. Thanks for this post.

Fernapple replies on Dec 10, 2019:

Thank you.

What Is Religion? - YouTube

Fernapple comments on Dec 9, 2019:

So basically the young man is saying that the definition of the word religion is not clearly defined, and admits of enough subjectivity to require a different usage to be assigned for each user. Apart from the obvious, (That that is something which applies to every word, and that people who ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 9, 2019:

@maturin1919 Perhaps but that is the way things are whether it is a good thing or not.

The Funniest Tweets from Parents this Week

Fernapple comments on Dec 9, 2019:

If you'd like to answer the question, "What's the meaning of that???" a hundred thousand times a day, then coming on this site might be for you."

Fernapple replies on Dec 9, 2019:

@demifeministgal I am easily bored.

That was smooth...

Fernapple comments on Dec 9, 2019:

Actually you can get down to the bottom much more easily and safely, by putting alternate feet on the steps, at the rate of about two per second. Works well for me. Just though I would share.

Fernapple replies on Dec 9, 2019:

@BeeHappy Saves wear on the trousers too.

And here is why your health systems are crap, along with education, social housing and national ...

LenHazell53 comments on Dec 9, 2019:

in other news "Sky is blue"

Fernapple replies on Dec 9, 2019:

Sadly it will be news to a lot of people, though they probably would not read a posting like that on a site like this.

The wild Chicory, Chichorium, grows in many of the hedgerows in this part of the UK, where it ...

Mark013 comments on Dec 9, 2019:

We have it in the US and here in Wisconsin. Classified as an invasive species. I have probably seen it but there are a lot of wild flowering plants along the roadside.

Fernapple replies on Dec 9, 2019:

Thank you.

This was my first encounter with the large, impressive and much hallowed White Stork in Portugal.

Spinliesel comments on Dec 8, 2019:

In my youth, in Northern Germany, we had a pair of storks that nested on an old wagon wheel that the townspeople had installed on top of an old smokestack by the community dairy. The arrival of the storks was always an event. The newspaper posted pictures of the nest building, then announced eggs ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 9, 2019:

@Spinliesel Possible. It is still the case that even today, when we are largely sheltered from seasonal changes, that more people are born in spring than any other season. It must have been more so in the past.

This was my first encounter with the large, impressive and much hallowed White Stork in Portugal.

Spinliesel comments on Dec 8, 2019:

In my youth, in Northern Germany, we had a pair of storks that nested on an old wagon wheel that the townspeople had installed on top of an old smokestack by the community dairy. The arrival of the storks was always an event. The newspaper posted pictures of the nest building, then announced eggs ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 9, 2019:

Lovely. And of course in the old days, when people including their sexuality were even more affected by the seasons, most babies arrived in the spring. I often wondered if that could have been the origin of the storks bring babies story.

What is our purpose in life?

Sgt_Spanky comments on Dec 8, 2019:

Life has no purpose other than to reproduce itself. We have to define our own purpose or give life its own meaning.

Fernapple replies on Dec 8, 2019:

@Beowulfsfriend Including the Shakers.

Almost the entire drive of human history has been, to find better ways of fooling your fellow ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 6, 2019:

I see competition among people as an integral and important part of nature. There has always been a blending of unity and competition. There’s no cabal of powerful people who control the agenda. Nature sets the agenda.

Fernapple replies on Dec 8, 2019:

@WilliamFleming I am in full agreement with that, and think that there is no better way to social reform, than setting a good example of how to be happy without being a burden. If we enough of us could make a good job of that, then the world would certainly improve. And your good efforts are appreciated by me, very much so.

Almost the entire drive of human history has been, to find better ways of fooling your fellow ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 6, 2019:

I see competition among people as an integral and important part of nature. There has always been a blending of unity and competition. There’s no cabal of powerful people who control the agenda. Nature sets the agenda.

Fernapple replies on Dec 8, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Perhaps it works this way. We divide the world into groups or categories to which we give names, such as birds and bees, which are two groups of things that fly, or hammers and saws for example, two types of tools. Of all the things that chimps could own, I think you will agree, there are at least two groups. Those, such as toenails, which are made following the instructions found in DNA working through RNA and then ribosome's ( the phenotype, ). And those which are made by DNA working through RNA and ribosome's, but only after they have first produced a fully functioning brain, followed by neural nets, which have then added another layer of instructions. These, such as stones and peeled sticks used for fishing out termites, we can then call, tools, artefacts, and sometimes cultural products, though that is more complex yet since it needs several brains working together. ( Technically they are all called, I am told, the extended phenotype. ) Artefacts, meaning literally, the products of art, are as you quite rightly say, just as natural as anything else in the universe, using natural to mean all the products of nature, or in other words the whole universe. However artefacts are a special sub-group of things, because they are the products of that extra layer of instructions coming from brains. And we use the term 'artificial', made by art, to describe the groups character. Unfortunately it is a convention of our language, that there is no word for, none artificial, defining the other group of things that do not fit in that group, except 'natural'. And that of course results in natural, (and its opposite unnatural, ) having two meanings, both, all that there is, and, all that does not go into the sub-group of things made using artistry. In another language except English this problem may not occur. It just shows the problems of trying to use language, which is a series of historical accidents cobbled together, often badly and very imperfectly, to express concepts in reason and logic, and why humans felt it needful to invent mathematics and science, in part, as a more rigorous alternatives to language and culture.

It is my contention that specialization should be left to those who are not mentally gifted at...

JackPedigo comments on Dec 7, 2019:

Mentally gifted? I consider myself a generalist but never it thought it required some special mental ability.

Fernapple replies on Dec 7, 2019:

@JackPedigo The closer you look the less you see.

Almost the entire drive of human history has been, to find better ways of fooling your fellow ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 6, 2019:

I see competition among people as an integral and important part of nature. There has always been a blending of unity and competition. There’s no cabal of powerful people who control the agenda. Nature sets the agenda.

Fernapple replies on Dec 7, 2019:

@WilliamFleming And are the chimps toenails also called tools.

It is my contention that specialization should be left to those who are not mentally gifted at...

JackPedigo comments on Dec 7, 2019:

Mentally gifted? I consider myself a generalist but never it thought it required some special mental ability.

Fernapple replies on Dec 7, 2019:

In some ways I think that it is the hardest thing of all. At least doing it well and grasping the big picture.

Almost the entire drive of human history has been, to find better ways of fooling your fellow ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 6, 2019:

I see competition among people as an integral and important part of nature. There has always been a blending of unity and competition. There’s no cabal of powerful people who control the agenda. Nature sets the agenda.

Fernapple replies on Dec 7, 2019:

@WilliamFleming And do they also have toenails ?

No matter how widely you have traveled, you haven't seen the world if you have failed to look into ...

Cutiebeauty comments on Dec 7, 2019:

I haven't traveled the world at all yet but I look forward to it

Fernapple replies on Dec 7, 2019:

Go. Life is short, its a big world and you, I am sure, know how to look into hearts. The best thing about travel is that, not only do you learn a lot about foreign lands and people by traveling, but you also learn vast amounts about you own country and people. So much so that you wonder if you ever understood them at all before !

Almost the entire drive of human history has been, to find better ways of fooling your fellow ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 6, 2019:

I see competition among people as an integral and important part of nature. There has always been a blending of unity and competition. There’s no cabal of powerful people who control the agenda. Nature sets the agenda.

Fernapple replies on Dec 7, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Did you say that chimpanzees have rocks which they use as tools ?