Philosophy vs. Religion

Cecilia2018 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm not sure if you believe the description in your post but I believe in logic with my feet on the ground. Religions are full of misery, torture , fears and lies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j7g1dfxIo

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

@skado For evidence there is the activities of almost all religions, which may be freely observed, and you will find a huge range of accounts, and videos of shaman without looking any further than the net. In for now while you look them up, here is a short story about the fear of want. : One day a large gang of apes were hunting in the forest when they came to a tree, which fruited only rarely, but they always looked for it when they passed, because the fruit though uncommon was especially delicious. This however was a good year, and there was a small crop of fruit on the tree. The apes soon had it all picked, and then shared it out according to their custom. Then suddenly, just as they were about to start eating, the the son of the fairly clever ape, who was also very selfish and greedy like his father, stood up and said. “I think that I should be given three extra of the finest and best fruits from this tree, as well as my normal share.” Naturally all the others wanted to know why they should do this, and so, after a suspiciously long pause, he began to speak. “You should give me this extra fruit as my payment, for talking to this tree with a special kind of secret talk, which only I know. Because inside the tree there is hidden a tree spirit, which only I can see and speak to, and if I speak to the tree and say just the words, then you can be sure that it will yield more fruit next year.” “In fact, it is because in the past the correct words were not always said to it, that this tree has not always given us all the fruit we could have wanted. And moreover the tree would wish that because I am its friend I should be rewarded” Most of the apes thought that this was just too silly an idea, and they laughed at him and called him foolish. There were however among the band just a few who thought that, just in case he was telling the truth, it might be worth a small number of fruit; but since most of the apes were not in favour and mocked them for agreeing with the son of the fairly clever ape, they did nothing. The son of the greedy and fairly clever ape was however very persistent, and kept on repeating his request every time they came to a new tree. After a while, when they saw how determined he was, more and more of the apes began to waver, and soon some of them did indeed start to give him part of their fruit. Even though it often meant that they went hungry themselves. And in that day was religion born.

Gardener friends--any favorite crops or varieties that are vaguely obscure and you think everyone ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 16, 2019:

Angelica, just chop the young tender stems in spring into any fruit you are cooking, no need to preserve it. Lovage for a rich celery type flavour in soups and stews. Angelica is a biennial but self sows and lovage is a tall herb, neither are difficult to grow.

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

@DavidDuhon Could be lovage, does it grow to four feet plus ?

brand new on here trying to get to level 2.

EdEarl comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Grats, you are level 4 ATM. You will find level 7 comes fairly fast.

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

@lakota_5 1992, did you keep the steampowered attic filler when you traded up to a modern device. It will be collectable now.

The religiously unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their ...

Mofo1953 comments on Nov 16, 2019:

In the US or the world?

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

@Mofo1953 Wish I had one of those, some of the pages people on this site send you to, not just the adds but the cookies and requests to add you to lists !

The religiously unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their ...

Mofo1953 comments on Nov 16, 2019:

In the US or the world?

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

It says US as its headline.

The religiously unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their ...

EdEarl comments on Nov 15, 2019:

Good news. Why do we have so few members? My city has more than a million people, there could be a quarter mollion agnostics, yet worldwide there are fewer than 100,000 members here.

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

Most perhaps do not know of this site or care to be active. Most people who ride in trains are not members of commuters unions, and most people with old things in their houses, are do not subscribe to antique dealers publications. And especially most people, in the UK anyway , who say they are christians don't go to church.

"My magnificent master and great friend of many years ago, Heinrich Zimmer (1890-1943), had a ...

Moravian comments on Nov 16, 2019:

Did Lastman give his painting that title ?. or was it added later ?. The painting is not of a whale but a large fish as stated in the biblical story. Did they even know that whales were mamals in the early 17th century ?.

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

No I think that they became mammals much later, probably about the time Darwin published, but there is certainly a really fun chapter about the issue, probably a spoof, in Herman Melville's Moby-Dick, 1851. So the debate about whether they were fish or not, was certainly on going then.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Cecilia2018 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm not sure if you believe the description in your post but I believe in logic with my feet on the ground. Religions are full of misery, torture , fears and lies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j7g1dfxIo

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

@skado No that is incorrect, because most of the fear and psychological suffering are the creation of religion in the first place. Things such as our, perhaps genuine but naturally very slight, fears are exaggerated vastly by religion in order to pose wrongly as a saviour. And that began even in the days of the very early shamanistic religions, around the nomadic hunter gatherers camp fires. The shamen and witch doctors were the first aristocrats using fear to control, long before technologically advanced societies developed military and secular aristocratic structures. Religion was not corrupted, because religion was and is the origninal form of corruption, the first major confidence trick.

Fear is a reaction. Courage is a decision. Winston Churchill

Jolanta comments on Nov 16, 2019:

Did Winston actually ever really fight or was he in the background pulling the strings while others fought?

Fernapple replies on Nov 16, 2019:

No he was a soldier in youth and fought in the Sudan for one, taking part in the last mass cavalry charge made by British troops.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

This came up on another post but it works here too. No religion does not provide answers, religion provides pseudo answers , because if it provided truthful honest answers, such as. "Nobody knows learn to live with that." Then people would not keep coming back for more, like any pedaler it is part ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@skado It was Allamanda who said rare, not me.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

This came up on another post but it works here too. No religion does not provide answers, religion provides pseudo answers , because if it provided truthful honest answers, such as. "Nobody knows learn to live with that." Then people would not keep coming back for more, like any pedaler it is part ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@skado Granted yes. Shinto and Animism.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

This came up on another post but it works here too. No religion does not provide answers, religion provides pseudo answers , because if it provided truthful honest answers, such as. "Nobody knows learn to live with that." Then people would not keep coming back for more, like any pedaler it is part ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@skado Secular philosophical Buddhism.

The latest glitch doesn't allow people to post high resolution pictures.

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Having said that it may be true. But it is also true that 99% of the people viewing this site will be looking at it on either smart phones or laptops, neither of which will show high res anyway.

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 To a degree I had noticed that the chat rooms don't really do anything, but on the other hand the groups and forums are so like chat rooms why bother. Having said which. Yes I would happily put up with a few adverts or even pay a token amount for a few improved features.

Largest U.S. Christian Charity Reportedly Donated $56.1 Million to Hate Groups

Fernapple comments on Nov 15, 2019:

Link does not seem to work sorry.

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@BestWithoutGods Yep that's what I got too. Thanks.

Largest U.S. Christian Charity Reportedly Donated $56.1 Million to Hate Groups

Fernapple comments on Nov 15, 2019:

Link does not seem to work sorry.

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@Grahame Thanks will try again.

Food Budget

sewchick57 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

I don't really eat a lot so I can afford fruit all the time. I don't eat nuts on a regular basis but if I want some I can afford them. What I don't buy a lot of is meat. I usually spend around $50 a week for groceries.

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

It may well be different in the US but certainly her in the UK a veg based diet is very affordable, and perhaps the cheapest. I spend about fifty US per week as well, including a few meals out.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

This came up on another post but it works here too. No religion does not provide answers, religion provides pseudo answers , because if it provided truthful honest answers, such as. "Nobody knows learn to live with that." Then people would not keep coming back for more, like any pedaler it is part ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@skado Well some forms of Buddhism don't.

The very early dawn of perhaps one of the world great thought systems, and a beautiful couple of ...

JeffMesser comments on Nov 14, 2019:

We already view the buddha as the ninth avatar of vishnu so the tie between buddhism and sanatan dharma old hat. In many academic circles Buddhism, Jainism and a couple of others are said to comprise the "nastika" theology of Hinduism (opposed to parts of the vedas) while others form the "astika" ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

To some it will be new. To me, though I know a little of the history, I am no expert, and am glad that it stimulated inputs like yours.

The latest glitch doesn't allow people to post high resolution pictures.

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Having said that it may be true. But it is also true that 99% of the people viewing this site will be looking at it on either smart phones or laptops, neither of which will show high res anyway.

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 True. While this site works well just because it is small for a social media site, yet we could really do with a few more active members.

I think this is a lovely overview, much more interesting than it sounds. [youtube.com]

Robecology comments on Nov 14, 2019:

More than a "lovely" overview (I get it....you're a romantic) It's an important one. I volunteer for a botanical garden....and it's a common unawareness... that many make about plants...that they too, went through an evolution...only many of the "dinosaurs" of the plant world...the Cycads, the ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

Yes, that is profoundly true. Though you are preaching to the converted since my job is that of nurseryman, and especially, a specialist fern grower. If anything I think that the video skipped over the plants a bit quickly, would have liked more on them, since they are the producers, and animals only consumers.

The very early dawn of perhaps one of the world great thought systems, and a beautiful couple of ...

Allamanda comments on Nov 14, 2019:

what this says about the cross-over, absorption and links between Hinduism and Buddhism, is also most amazing!

Fernapple replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@DavidDuhon That's it.

In what order do you say your cardinal directions?

LatentumCattus comments on Nov 14, 2019:

I say it N-E-W-S, because the news all comes from the north, the east, the west and the south.

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

I was taught the old saying. "When facing North, East and West spell we."

The very early dawn of perhaps one of the world great thought systems, and a beautiful couple of ...

Allamanda comments on Nov 14, 2019:

what this says about the cross-over, absorption and links between Hinduism and Buddhism, is also most amazing!

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

The Buddha was of course born into the Hindu world, and a lot of his teaching was criticism of Hindu thinking and ideas. Though of course the religious were not going to give up easily, but having no planned strategy they used both methods of attack, trying both to absorb and undermine the new teaching and to crush it. Eventually they succeeded in driving Buddhism out of India, but not before they had also infected it with a lot of religious woo as well.

The latest glitch doesn't allow people to post high resolution pictures.

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Having said that it may be true. But it is also true that 99% of the people viewing this site will be looking at it on either smart phones or laptops, neither of which will show high res anyway.

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Well yes, but then it is a free site, as the old saying goes about gift horses mouths.

Article about when the concept of homosexuality was actually introduced into translations of the ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 14, 2019:

I am no expert on old languages , but the tone of the article makes it sound like contrived revisionist spin to me. Note that it starts by talking about German and other central European languages, why not Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic ? They must know that the original bible was not writen in German, so...

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@Allamanda Yes. That is true. And of course a lot of cultures allowed female homosexuallty, in the past. But not because they were liberal and tolerant, but often because they believed so strongly in a male centred world, that as far as they were concern sex was something only men could do, something that took place between women and other livestock was not trivial, it was simply beneath notice, even to ban it.

Article about when the concept of homosexuality was actually introduced into translations of the ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 14, 2019:

I am no expert on old languages , but the tone of the article makes it sound like contrived revisionist spin to me. Note that it starts by talking about German and other central European languages, why not Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic ? They must know that the original bible was not writen in German, so...

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@Allamanda Even if it did enter the bible later (I think unlikely.) it was almost certainly there much earlier than that. Because for example, the Koran which largely takes its morality from the bible certainly includes it.

Article about when the concept of homosexuality was actually introduced into translations of the ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 14, 2019:

I am no expert on old languages , but the tone of the article makes it sound like contrived revisionist spin to me. Note that it starts by talking about German and other central European languages, why not Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic ? They must know that the original bible was not writen in German, so...

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@Allamanda If it is only about their collection/geographic area, why does the article not talk about the German Bible or the European Bible. as I say I am no expert but LenHazell53 below sound much more authoritive to me.

This past summer I did about 250 miles of the Camino de Santiago, much/most of which followed the ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Sounds like a wonderful trip it is on my bucket list. In Britain we have a weed commonly called Ground Elder, Aegopodium podagraria, which is a widespread menace. It is not however a native, but is believed to have been brought here by the Romans as a medicinal plant, thought to cure gout ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@DavidDuhon Yes I know books are heavy to carry, and smart phones have tiny images. The best thing that I have found is a tablet, which gives you the net and good images, and of course something to do in the room at night.

brand new on here trying to get to level 2.

EdEarl comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Grats, you are level 4 ATM. You will find level 7 comes fairly fast.

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@lakota_5 No people tend not to use the chat rooms, the way the site works you can have a conversation quite well in the groups and forums, so why bother with the chat rooms.

The Curiosity rover detects oxygen behaving strangely on Mars (this webpage has lots of ...

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Very interesting. Back in 1976 the first Mars lander detected life but the finding was pushed aside. https://www.space.com/41689-nasa-viking-mars-life-search-gil-levin.html

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

Yes I remember that at the time it did seem to be taking healthy scientific scepticism to an extreme level. But I could not see any motive for that, then it has occured to me that NASA has long had the idea of a manned mission. Could it be that the proof of life on mars is being held back, to provide a justification for and a triumph for a manned mission ?

What are your thoughts? [enotes.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Some people seem to need and want religion, and for various reasons. If religion had been serving no purpose it would have long since died out. Live and let live.

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

Some people need and want to self harm.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I Googled "freethinker" and the definitions are much the same: someone who bases truth on logic and reason and are free from dogma, especially religious dogma. However, I have met or read posts by very few "true" freethinkers. Being an agnostic or atheist does not make one a freethinker. It's...

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@Gwendolyn2018 And what is common sense except the view that objective truth may exist, which comes from the other factor, contact with nature ? How can you know anything to be false without an alternative to compare it with, and what alternatives are there to human culture, save the objective observation of nature or science.

The latest glitch doesn't allow people to post high resolution pictures.

Fernapple comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Having said that it may be true. But it is also true that 99% of the people viewing this site will be looking at it on either smart phones or laptops, neither of which will show high res anyway.

Fernapple replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Yes they will show them but you do not get any benefit on such a small screen, to get any value from high res you would have to be viewing on a 36 inch screen at least.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I Googled "freethinker" and the definitions are much the same: someone who bases truth on logic and reason and are free from dogma, especially religious dogma. However, I have met or read posts by very few "true" freethinkers. Being an agnostic or atheist does not make one a freethinker. It's...

Fernapple replies on Nov 13, 2019:

@Gwendolyn2018 You say that. "God believers are not necessarily lying when they insist that the fantastical events in the The Bible are correct, but they are factually incorrect." Which is very true, but how would you know that they are factually incorrect, unless science had provided you with an alternative. Without that you would believe it too.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I Googled "freethinker" and the definitions are much the same: someone who bases truth on logic and reason and are free from dogma, especially religious dogma. However, I have met or read posts by very few "true" freethinkers. Being an agnostic or atheist does not make one a freethinker. It's...

Fernapple replies on Nov 13, 2019:

@Gwendolyn2018 By nature I mean the natural world, and also personal experience when that intrudes into life in none cultural ways. (They are the same really.) For example when watching a loved one die of disease, these are real experiences which often can show human culture to be the sham it is. While science is anti-culture because it grew from the realisation that recieved culture information was, usually in error, and that it was needful to find an alternative path to understanding based on experimental testing. Though of couse in some ways science is a culture itself, but an alternative culture, and of course it only offers value and is useful when it is and alternative to mainstream culture. If mainstream culture always told the truth, then there would be no need for or value in science.

Philosophy vs. Religion

David1955 comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Religions offer liberation? From what, thinking?

Fernapple replies on Nov 13, 2019:

Yes exactly.

Tiny deer-like species spotted for the first time in 30 years

Haemish1 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I’ve think they’ve mis-identified a Chupacabra - perhaps they’re calling it a “mouse deer” to avoid panic in the general public? 😉

Fernapple replies on Nov 13, 2019:

@Sealybobo You will have to catch one to be sure. Maybe that is why they are rarely seen, people are using the wrong bait. You need a healthy well endowed male running naked through the woods.

Tiny deer-like species spotted for the first time in 30 years

Haemish1 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I’ve think they’ve mis-identified a Chupacabra - perhaps they’re calling it a “mouse deer” to avoid panic in the general public? 😉

Fernapple replies on Nov 13, 2019:

@Sealybobo Only female humans have boobs when not feeding infants. And the fur is very thick, because its cold where they live and blue nipples would make them easy for the unicorns to spot.

Tiny deer-like species spotted for the first time in 30 years

Haemish1 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I’ve think they’ve mis-identified a Chupacabra - perhaps they’re calling it a “mouse deer” to avoid panic in the general public? 😉

Fernapple replies on Nov 13, 2019:

@starwatcher-al Has big cold feet, women have big cold feet, (Never shared a bed with one ? ) therefore bigfoot is a woman. Perfect logic according to my religious friends.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I Googled "freethinker" and the definitions are much the same: someone who bases truth on logic and reason and are free from dogma, especially religious dogma. However, I have met or read posts by very few "true" freethinkers. Being an agnostic or atheist does not make one a freethinker. It's...

Fernapple replies on Nov 13, 2019:

Yes but there are other inputs we can obtain besides culture, for example, nature, personal experience, and the phiosophy of anit-culture we call science. ( For although science is a culture, the useful bits of it are the bits where it opposes accepted culture. )

Every so often the old question crops up.

Pralina1 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

Or ,

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

Yes that is the other reason, though they kind of link.

George Bernard Shaw, "The English & Americans are two peoples divided by a common language"

Cutiebeauty comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes, America was started with criminals from Britain?

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

@altschmerz Yes I think they were only imprisoned on religious grounds, but in Boston, Lincolnshire, you can still see some of the cells where they were held. Plus of course there were also the Rowenoak (hope that's the spelling) people, who were effectively pirates.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

MichaelSpinler comments on Nov 12, 2019:

i see xians try to say they are freethinkers, on the dating sites. free thinking is free of indoctrination or authorities. the ability to research and derive opinion based on the facts without emotional attachment to an idea. especially when it comes to woo. which i see on this site.. sadly

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

Yes that's a good one, free thinking is only useful if you include a critical view otherwise you are just dreaming up dross.

So if you or I come to something which we find dull and uninteresting, but other people seem to ...

Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

It’s the dull and boring thing. I have no interest in golf, which I find dull and boring, and see no need to change that. No one is dull and boring in their element, but we do not need to chastise ourselves if we do not find another’s interest riveting!

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 "No one is dull and boring in their element," You say , but what about those sad individuals who find nothing interesting, were they born to be just life long social problems, or is education at the core of apprieciation, and if so are they therefore victims of a failed education system which failed to find them a direction.

So if you or I come to something which we find dull and uninteresting, but other people seem to ...

Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 12, 2019:

It’s the dull and boring thing. I have no interest in golf, which I find dull and boring, and see no need to change that. No one is dull and boring in their element, but we do not need to chastise ourselves if we do not find another’s interest riveting!

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

Funny that of all things, the only thing that any commentators on this post mentioned by name is golf, and that was at least three of you. LOL

George Bernard Shaw, "The English & Americans are two peoples divided by a common language"

Cutiebeauty comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes, America was started with criminals from Britain?

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

@altschmerz No the pilgrim fathers. Criminals from England.

George Bernard Shaw, "The English & Americans are two peoples divided by a common language"

Remiforce comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I don't think G.B. Shaw was right. After all Ol' Blighty & America were allies in the World Wars, NATO, & have a special relationship. Of course relations would greatly improve if England would stop sending us those damn dramas they show incessantly on PBS

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

You should try watching the stuff we get from the US on nearly all our freeview stations, it is nearly a bad as the stuff from Australia !

We get too soon old and too late smart. —Unknown.

Allamanda comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. Francis Bacon

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

Old cheese to eat, old buildings to marvel at, old dogs to stroke, old stories to hear, old forests to walk in, old tunes to hum and best of all old ladies to squeeze gently.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BrianFinn comments on Nov 11, 2019:

"Freethought (or free thought)[1] is an epistemological viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed only on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or dogma. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a freethinker is "a ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

Thank you good background.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

KittensandSage comments on Nov 12, 2019:

Nice threads, I wondered too, it seems to vary a little bit from person to person who see self as freethinker. I feel free to think for myself, but I don’t want more labels. It might be more PC to say “Freethinker” to theologists or persons in places of power when discussing religious or ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 12, 2019:

My thoughts too. but I had not thought about the historical origins. Thank for that.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Flowerwall comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I really like that question.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@Flowerwall No but I think that Geoffrey -51 below gives a really good serious answer, and Owlinasack the ironic one.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Flowerwall comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I really like that question.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

It raised some wonderful comments, some serious and some funny.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

PBuck0145 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

A "free-thinker" has the ability and confidence to evaluate based on evidence and reason, and accepts the consequences of that evaluation.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Accepting the consequences of your own thoughts rather than accepting given thoughts, so that you do not need to address the consequeces is key to it, yes I think so too.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Mb_Man comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Excellent question. It's a well-used term in communities and forum situations like this. One of a handful of intellectual buzzwords that one often sees used as a personal identifier. Logical, rational. reasonable (not as often), nuanced, skeptic and likely more that I am forgetting about. ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That's my thoughts exactly.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Perhaps, and this is a sideways view, which hopefully this forum still embraces without getting ‘offended’ - No one is a freethinker. If you take a position you are against something which doesn’t sound free. It is locked into a polarity and so will always be restricted by duality. To ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That is a good thought. Mine of course was. How can you think and not think freely ? There being only acceptance of the given or thought to choose from, therefore the free part is redundant. Since by thinking you are always freeing yourself from acceptance. But you are saying thought can never be free which is coming at it from the other direction., but still leaves the duality.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Word comments on Nov 11, 2019:

You are free to think about electrons and protons going in circles while smoking dope and playing video games.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Thank you Fred. It is nice to know you are watching my back.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

icolan comments on Nov 11, 2019:

From the profile page where that is an option. "Freethinker - believes truth comes from logic, reason, and empiricism"

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 OK, I try humour now and again, and it usually gets me into trouble because people take it seriously, but double irony !

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

AnneWimsey comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Pretty much None Of Your Business, methinks.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Nothing on this site is any of my business, but it is fun.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

icolan comments on Nov 11, 2019:

From the profile page where that is an option. "Freethinker - believes truth comes from logic, reason, and empiricism"

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes I forgot we had a our own definition.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BohoHeathen comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I think of a free thinker as someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't follow suit with society or social norms, just because they have been told to. MOST free thinkers are able to see from other perspectives, and not just through their own eyes. This mot certainly applies often to religion, but...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@BohoHeathen Yep, have not had this much response for ages, and perhaps silly AND makes people think, is about as good as it gets.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marionville comments on Nov 11, 2019:

As far as I’m concerned as it’s what both my father and grandfather called themselves...it means not following anyone else’s ideology but formulating you’re own beliefs and ideals based on reading all accounts and evidence available. No connection whatsoever with “spiritual”, so I ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@Marionville I thought it may trigger another long running debate, for mischiefs sake. Looks like it worked almost too well.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marionville comments on Nov 11, 2019:

As far as I’m concerned as it’s what both my father and grandfather called themselves...it means not following anyone else’s ideology but formulating you’re own beliefs and ideals based on reading all accounts and evidence available. No connection whatsoever with “spiritual”, so I ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes but isn't that just a thinker. Isn't the free bit a tautology. And thank you for you carefully interesting and thoughtful reply, but please I would ask you to observe that I posted this under "Silly and Fun".

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marcie1974 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Here’s a good explanation: https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/18391-what-is-a-freethinker

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@Marcie1974 I don't mind the term at all. It is perhaps just a transatlantic thing, in the US it may seem quite normal, but in the UK it would sound pompus and self congratulatory. That is why I posted in the "silly" cat.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BohoHeathen comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I think of a free thinker as someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't follow suit with society or social norms, just because they have been told to. MOST free thinkers are able to see from other perspectives, and not just through their own eyes. This mot certainly applies often to religion, but...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@BohoHeathen Thank you those are good thoughts, but please don't take me too seriously. Note I posted this under "silly".

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marcie1974 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Here’s a good explanation: https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/18391-what-is-a-freethinker

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes but surely that is just called 'thinking'.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BohoHeathen comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I think of a free thinker as someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't follow suit with society or social norms, just because they have been told to. MOST free thinkers are able to see from other perspectives, and not just through their own eyes. This mot certainly applies often to religion, but...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

But isn't that just thinking ? Either you accept what you are given, or you think. Where does the free bit come in, and why for goodness sake put it on your bio? If you don't have any original thoughts surely everyone will find out soon enough.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

t1nick comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I'm not sure such a thing as "free-thinking" actually exists. We are all influenced by the ideas that came before us, by reaction to others around us, and experiences in our lives.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That's my thoughts. Either you think or you don't, and if you do it must be free thinking, because anything else is not thinking.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

TheoryNumber3 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

For me, it refers to someone who forms their own opinions rather than being persuaded into believing what is generally accepted without question, i.e. religion and politics.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That is what we would hope it means, but why put it on your bio ?

Why are so many people on this site still obsess on religion?

Fernapple comments on Nov 11, 2019:

You need to look beyond the front page and into the groups, the front page is really only for those new to the site and general background engagements. Having said that I often wonder, if this is a site for agnostics and atheists, why is so much of the front page about US politics ? But there you ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@wordywalt I still use the main forum quite a lot too, but I do not think that the groups are just echo chambers, I am in several active ones such as the gardening, photography and a couple of history science groups and they regularly post original content which is new to me.

Sometimes, I visit a thread, leave it, delete my alert, and then realize I'd like to go back.

GuyKeith comments on Nov 10, 2019:

With Firefox, Ctrl-Alt-T restores previous tab.

Fernapple replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@EdEarl Firefox is really good you can just keep going back by dabbing the button.

Oh Spain, thanks for the great visit.

Fernapple comments on Nov 10, 2019:

Seville and Cordoba I loved them both, I especially loved the river front a Cordoba with the Roman bridge it seemed like the most historically beautiful place on earth.

Fernapple replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@JustChris Not got to Barcelona yet, but it is certainly on the bucket list.

SPIRITUAL.

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Nice try, but sadly I think that you have no chance. The reason why people like to use the word spiritual, is because it has no fixed meaning, and therefore they can use it to mean anything they want, and moreover if they are challenged about any part of it, they can simply shift the meaning ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@Rodatheist Good luck. I shall watch out for you.

Heres one to listen to tomorrow, though you can listen today as well.

dede18 comments on Nov 9, 2019:

what a beautiful way to phrase it "the gave their todays for our tomorrows" ..

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Yes not mine, it is often used in rememberance services in the UK, but it is lovely, and it comes of course with the commitment that perhaps we should not waste our todays because of that. Even less let the thing that they died for like our democracies fade, just because we are busy, lazy or looking elsewhere.

The argument of intelligent design is very popular among the religious because on the surface it ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 9, 2019:

But there I think lies the big difference between us and the theist. I think that there is an impossible gulf, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort...

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

@DavidDuhon Yes I agree, but there is also no harm in looking at the big picture now and again. And you have also got to remember that I come from the UK, where most of the obviously religious are fundamentalists, because almost everyone else lost interest.

".

GreatNani comments on Nov 9, 2019:

The actual quote comes from a passage in one of her books about a woman who has lost her sight. She refused to pretend all was well. People tend to do that, act like devastating things have brought some inner knowledge or happen for a reason and all will be well. That is not always the case.

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Now it makes sense. It is nice to keep your posts short and snappy, but you can go too far with the delete button. Good post.

I hurt my back yesterday sweeping up in the yard, so I am now reduced to sitting catching up with ...

allmighty comments on Nov 9, 2019:

Hope you get better soon.

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Thank you, I think I am improving already.

I hurt my back yesterday sweeping up in the yard, so I am now reduced to sitting catching up with ...

skado comments on Nov 9, 2019:

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Thank you.

We have had two good frosts now, but a couple of summer flowers are still hanging on.

Allamanda comments on Nov 9, 2019:

I've never heard of winter jasmine - is it scented?

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Some of my friends say it is scented, I can smell nothing.

Better an uncomfortable truth than a comfortable lie? What say you?

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

I think that there is an impossible gulf, between believers and sceptics, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort and loss of joy the winning of it ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

@Atheist3 Quite.

If Jesus had been real he would appear in the history books and not just the bible.

Tomfoolery33 comments on Nov 8, 2019:

There were lots of real people who never made it to the history books, so that's not really a convincing argument. I personally think that Jesus was a composite person made up from tales of different wandering preachers, but obviously there's no proof of that.

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Sgt_Spanky No I think that Sgt Spanky is quite correct, but it all depends on which Jesus you are talking about. If you are talking about the Jesus of the bible who worked miracles, and caused armies of the dead to rise from the ground, then yes you are correct it would be surprising if he did not make it into the history books. But if you are talking about a minor rabbi who established a cult with only a dozen followers, which only later grew to be a major religion, as old myths and legends attached themselves to what was originally a minor figure, then yes he could have escaped history in his own time. Remember Friar G. Mendle is now regarded as one of the nineteenth centuries great scientists. Yet had you asked any historian who he was just over a hundred year ago, they would have said. "Who."

So this isn't a women's forum but I don't think anyone is going to be offended by this - and also, ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Not really relevant to me, but I have to just wonder, at the vast amount of misinformation out there on every subject imaginable. What sort of idiot, pedaling what sort of woo, persuades women to put things like cleaners and steam up their vagina, and what sort of education system does a country ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Allamanda And of course the teaching of music and arts, would have done much to block the rise of crass commercial junk culture. There is nothing but good that comes from real education, which is perhaps why it is so much a part of the schools job to see that no one gets any.

So this isn't a women's forum but I don't think anyone is going to be offended by this - and also, ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Not really relevant to me, but I have to just wonder, at the vast amount of misinformation out there on every subject imaginable. What sort of idiot, pedaling what sort of woo, persuades women to put things like cleaners and steam up their vagina, and what sort of education system does a country ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Allamanda No, we were left to our own devices. But of course if they wanted to truly abolish sexism, then they could have given us one, that is why I say the sexism line was just an excuse. Though I do think that part of the idea was that it was a female 'role' to do health care for the whole family including the males. It was a very different world then, but it did have its good points.

So this isn't a women's forum but I don't think anyone is going to be offended by this - and also, ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Not really relevant to me, but I have to just wonder, at the vast amount of misinformation out there on every subject imaginable. What sort of idiot, pedaling what sort of woo, persuades women to put things like cleaners and steam up their vagina, and what sort of education system does a country ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Allamanda I remember when young and at school. (Sixties onwards.) The school used to have a girls teacher and classroom, where the main thing taught was health care. I know, because although strictly closed to boys the girls told us. It was abolished by the last headmaster because it was said to be sexist, in part just an excuse, and also because the then fashion was that all education was supposed to be about preparing people for work, and anything else was outdated. He was not the only headmaster at the time to do this. The teacher left, and I don't think that the subject ever returned either. (He also threw out history, rural studies, which was environmentalism and gardening, and several other 'soft' subjects.) Yet I have to wonder, what could be more importants to society as a whole, and even an efficient work force, than that most of its population should have a good solid basic understanding of how to maintain their health. And don't get me started on rural studies.

In the profile questions, this appears: "Is there more than a 10% chance that the following are real...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

I think the list is there to pick up theist trolls who often try to enter the site. It forces them to openly admit who they are or to give false answers.

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Omnedon No idea. Except that some, perhaps foolish, atheists will use multiverse as an answer, when pressed by theists to explain what happened before the big bang, (Assumes belief in the big bang.) where as the best answer is. "I don't know because I have no evidence, and neither do you."

SPIRITUAL.

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Nice try, but sadly I think that you have no chance. The reason why people like to use the word spiritual, is because it has no fixed meaning, and therefore they can use it to mean anything they want, and moreover if they are challenged about any part of it, they can simply shift the meaning ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 7, 2019:

@maturin1919 Yes that may be true, but that is just the way it is, any person or group can, and frequently do, make up their own new meanings for words when ever they want. The dictionaries just follow in the wake. Example 'cool', which only a quarter century ago meant, between hot and cold, then meant without affectation, but now means in fashion. Words change and evolve all the time, and no force on earth will ever stop it. Personally I find the challenge of keeping up stimulating. Language may exist, but it has never helped us to communicate thoughts clearly and accurately with one another, and indeed there are many forces at work within human society trying their best to make sure that it does not.

SPIRITUAL.

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Nice try, but sadly I think that you have no chance. The reason why people like to use the word spiritual, is because it has no fixed meaning, and therefore they can use it to mean anything they want, and moreover if they are challenged about any part of it, they can simply shift the meaning ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 7, 2019:

@maturin1919 That's it. No word has a meaning only usages. But some are less meaningful than others.

Does anyone who was raised Christian still enjoy the music?

Organist1 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Ha-ha -I was raised Episcopalian, went to music college, got my Master's degree in music, and ended up being a church music director and organist for almost 40 years! I love the sound of well-written sacred music -Bach, Benjamin Britten, Handel, etc. Some of the best music was written for use in ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

The churches have in the western world, been the main patrons of all the arts for centuries, they are bound to have collected most of the best stuff therefore. It will sadly take the secular world a long time to catch up, but it is begining.

Typical - barely educated preacher from semi-developped country comes to lay waste to what little is...

LenHazell53 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

I Believe the technical term rhymes with Mucking Foron

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

Ym spilling mitooks ah niver that finny.

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 5, 2019:

Apart from Moosepucky, there don't seem to be many men sticking their necks out on this post ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

@mooredolezal Sorry, yes same here, spelt in haste.

So this might be for Brits only but would love a general opinion.

Fernapple comments on Nov 6, 2019:

No it is not just you. And it is all because we are supposed to celebrate the survival of a king, who most people then and now would think better in prison than ruling a country, in a war of terror fought over religion. The only true traditional part is the bonfire, which was once lit to celebrate ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

@Lorajay Quite possible.

It is Fall, and bloom time for Nerines .

dede18 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

@Fernapple You are probably familiar with "Guernsey lilies"? they are actually Nerines ... it is believed that the bulbs washed ashore (in the 1700s?) after a shipwreck and that they then naturalized on the island :-) I think they're a much stronger deep pink color, Nerine sarniensis ... There are ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

Yes know those. When I used to do flower shows, we always seemed to end up with our stall next to a company that speciallized in Nerines.

The afterlife and beyond

DeathNova comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Personally i have a neutral opinion on the subject. I don't think there is anything after death but the concept of there being nothing troubles me deeply

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

The classic reply to that is. "Being nothing did not trouble you before you were born, therefore why should it trouble you when you are dead."

So this might be for Brits only but would love a general opinion.

LenHazell53 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Bonfire night was instituted much as Christmas was to replace a pagan festival. In the case of Christmas it was Yuletide, in the case of Bonfire night it was Samhain. Though Samhain was overlaid with All Hallows eve, much to the anger of the church the Bonfires and burning of the wicker man that ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 I would go to that one.

Does anyone else find it strange (and kind of creepy) when a person's bio on here describes them ...

Marionville comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Either a schizophrenic or a complete fraud!

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

Blunt. But true.

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 5, 2019:

Apart from Moosepucky, there don't seem to be many men sticking their necks out on this post ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 5, 2019:

@AnneWimsey Real translations can be very funny. I do not know if you do it in the US, but in the UK we use the French phrase 'Cul de Sack' to mean a road with no exit. It even apprears on officail road signs. The French think that it is wildly funny when they see it. (I am not going to explain it, anyone who wants to know will have to google it.)

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 4, 2019:

Go on what does mine tell you ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 5, 2019:

@AnneWimsey No I am sorry to say that ferns do not carry apples, though some do make bulbils on the fronds. In fact ferns do not have sexual reproduction at all, but produce asexual spores from the little blisters, (which you may also be what you call apples) under their fronds. Sexual reproduction takes place on the ground by a separate microscopic stage called a prothalus. Therefore since I grow ferns, and had the problem because I am in business of finding a nom de plume, I thought of something which could never exist, to use for a name which does not exist. Sorry if that is a bit complex but I thought of it quickly.

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 4, 2019:

Go on what does mine tell you ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 4, 2019:

@moosepucky That is very good. The meaning is very criptic but you are very close. Well done.

Who agrees with videos posted by DarkMatter2525 on YouTube?

Fernapple comments on Oct 27, 2019:

Would never judge any group of videos. Show me one and I will tell you about that one.

Fernapple replies on Nov 4, 2019:

@TonyBurton Yes I agree with that, heres one of my favourites, it is a bit slow to start but stick with it if you can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttevamkS6gw=LL_715bOSsuSbbQz3Cnu2muw=2&t=75s

Still can't get it to load photos, even quite small ones now.

Bobbyzen comments on Nov 3, 2019:

@admin. I just got an error message trying to add a photo to my comment here. I’d share the screenshot of the error message but, well, it wouldn’t load. Here’s the message: “Error uploading file. Please try again” @Fernapple is that what’s happening to you? In comments? In posts? Or ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

Yes that's what I get.

Ok, so what are they going to do with a 1-ton rock?

Fernapple comments on Nov 3, 2019:

Sell them for garden ornaments perhaps ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Seen it. I came back and made another comment. Snide but wise.