OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Mb_Man comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Excellent question. It's a well-used term in communities and forum situations like this. One of a handful of intellectual buzzwords that one often sees used as a personal identifier. Logical, rational. reasonable (not as often), nuanced, skeptic and likely more that I am forgetting about. ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That's my thoughts exactly.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Perhaps, and this is a sideways view, which hopefully this forum still embraces without getting ‘offended’ - No one is a freethinker. If you take a position you are against something which doesn’t sound free. It is locked into a polarity and so will always be restricted by duality. To ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That is a good thought. Mine of course was. How can you think and not think freely ? There being only acceptance of the given or thought to choose from, therefore the free part is redundant. Since by thinking you are always freeing yourself from acceptance. But you are saying thought can never be free which is coming at it from the other direction., but still leaves the duality.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Word comments on Nov 11, 2019:

You are free to think about electrons and protons going in circles while smoking dope and playing video games.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Thank you Fred. It is nice to know you are watching my back.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

icolan comments on Nov 11, 2019:

From the profile page where that is an option. "Freethinker - believes truth comes from logic, reason, and empiricism"

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 OK, I try humour now and again, and it usually gets me into trouble because people take it seriously, but double irony !

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

AnneWimsey comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Pretty much None Of Your Business, methinks.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Nothing on this site is any of my business, but it is fun.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

icolan comments on Nov 11, 2019:

From the profile page where that is an option. "Freethinker - believes truth comes from logic, reason, and empiricism"

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes I forgot we had a our own definition.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BohoHeathen comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I think of a free thinker as someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't follow suit with society or social norms, just because they have been told to. MOST free thinkers are able to see from other perspectives, and not just through their own eyes. This mot certainly applies often to religion, but...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@BohoHeathen Yep, have not had this much response for ages, and perhaps silly AND makes people think, is about as good as it gets.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marionville comments on Nov 11, 2019:

As far as I’m concerned as it’s what both my father and grandfather called themselves...it means not following anyone else’s ideology but formulating you’re own beliefs and ideals based on reading all accounts and evidence available. No connection whatsoever with “spiritual”, so I ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@Marionville I thought it may trigger another long running debate, for mischiefs sake. Looks like it worked almost too well.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marionville comments on Nov 11, 2019:

As far as I’m concerned as it’s what both my father and grandfather called themselves...it means not following anyone else’s ideology but formulating you’re own beliefs and ideals based on reading all accounts and evidence available. No connection whatsoever with “spiritual”, so I ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes but isn't that just a thinker. Isn't the free bit a tautology. And thank you for you carefully interesting and thoughtful reply, but please I would ask you to observe that I posted this under "Silly and Fun".

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marcie1974 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Here’s a good explanation: https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/18391-what-is-a-freethinker

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@Marcie1974 I don't mind the term at all. It is perhaps just a transatlantic thing, in the US it may seem quite normal, but in the UK it would sound pompus and self congratulatory. That is why I posted in the "silly" cat.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BohoHeathen comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I think of a free thinker as someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't follow suit with society or social norms, just because they have been told to. MOST free thinkers are able to see from other perspectives, and not just through their own eyes. This mot certainly applies often to religion, but...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@BohoHeathen Thank you those are good thoughts, but please don't take me too seriously. Note I posted this under "silly".

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

Marcie1974 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Here’s a good explanation: https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/18391-what-is-a-freethinker

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

Yes but surely that is just called 'thinking'.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BohoHeathen comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I think of a free thinker as someone who thinks for themselves and doesn't follow suit with society or social norms, just because they have been told to. MOST free thinkers are able to see from other perspectives, and not just through their own eyes. This mot certainly applies often to religion, but...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

But isn't that just thinking ? Either you accept what you are given, or you think. Where does the free bit come in, and why for goodness sake put it on your bio? If you don't have any original thoughts surely everyone will find out soon enough.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

t1nick comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I'm not sure such a thing as "free-thinking" actually exists. We are all influenced by the ideas that came before us, by reaction to others around us, and experiences in our lives.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That's my thoughts. Either you think or you don't, and if you do it must be free thinking, because anything else is not thinking.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

TheoryNumber3 comments on Nov 11, 2019:

For me, it refers to someone who forms their own opinions rather than being persuaded into believing what is generally accepted without question, i.e. religion and politics.

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

That is what we would hope it means, but why put it on your bio ?

Why are so many people on this site still obsess on religion?

Fernapple comments on Nov 11, 2019:

You need to look beyond the front page and into the groups, the front page is really only for those new to the site and general background engagements. Having said that I often wonder, if this is a site for agnostics and atheists, why is so much of the front page about US politics ? But there you ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@wordywalt I still use the main forum quite a lot too, but I do not think that the groups are just echo chambers, I am in several active ones such as the gardening, photography and a couple of history science groups and they regularly post original content which is new to me.

Sometimes, I visit a thread, leave it, delete my alert, and then realize I'd like to go back.

GuyKeith comments on Nov 10, 2019:

With Firefox, Ctrl-Alt-T restores previous tab.

Fernapple replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@EdEarl Firefox is really good you can just keep going back by dabbing the button.

Oh Spain, thanks for the great visit.

Fernapple comments on Nov 10, 2019:

Seville and Cordoba I loved them both, I especially loved the river front a Cordoba with the Roman bridge it seemed like the most historically beautiful place on earth.

Fernapple replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@JustChris Not got to Barcelona yet, but it is certainly on the bucket list.

SPIRITUAL.

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Nice try, but sadly I think that you have no chance. The reason why people like to use the word spiritual, is because it has no fixed meaning, and therefore they can use it to mean anything they want, and moreover if they are challenged about any part of it, they can simply shift the meaning ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@Rodatheist Good luck. I shall watch out for you.

Heres one to listen to tomorrow, though you can listen today as well.

dede18 comments on Nov 9, 2019:

what a beautiful way to phrase it "the gave their todays for our tomorrows" ..

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Yes not mine, it is often used in rememberance services in the UK, but it is lovely, and it comes of course with the commitment that perhaps we should not waste our todays because of that. Even less let the thing that they died for like our democracies fade, just because we are busy, lazy or looking elsewhere.

The argument of intelligent design is very popular among the religious because on the surface it ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 9, 2019:

But there I think lies the big difference between us and the theist. I think that there is an impossible gulf, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort...

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

@DavidDuhon Yes I agree, but there is also no harm in looking at the big picture now and again. And you have also got to remember that I come from the UK, where most of the obviously religious are fundamentalists, because almost everyone else lost interest.

".

GreatNani comments on Nov 9, 2019:

The actual quote comes from a passage in one of her books about a woman who has lost her sight. She refused to pretend all was well. People tend to do that, act like devastating things have brought some inner knowledge or happen for a reason and all will be well. That is not always the case.

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Now it makes sense. It is nice to keep your posts short and snappy, but you can go too far with the delete button. Good post.

I hurt my back yesterday sweeping up in the yard, so I am now reduced to sitting catching up with ...

allmighty comments on Nov 9, 2019:

Hope you get better soon.

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Thank you, I think I am improving already.

I hurt my back yesterday sweeping up in the yard, so I am now reduced to sitting catching up with ...

skado comments on Nov 9, 2019:

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Thank you.

We have had two good frosts now, but a couple of summer flowers are still hanging on.

Allamanda comments on Nov 9, 2019:

I've never heard of winter jasmine - is it scented?

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Some of my friends say it is scented, I can smell nothing.

Better an uncomfortable truth than a comfortable lie? What say you?

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

I think that there is an impossible gulf, between believers and sceptics, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort and loss of joy the winning of it ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 9, 2019:

@Atheist3 Quite.

If Jesus had been real he would appear in the history books and not just the bible.

Tomfoolery33 comments on Nov 8, 2019:

There were lots of real people who never made it to the history books, so that's not really a convincing argument. I personally think that Jesus was a composite person made up from tales of different wandering preachers, but obviously there's no proof of that.

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Sgt_Spanky No I think that Sgt Spanky is quite correct, but it all depends on which Jesus you are talking about. If you are talking about the Jesus of the bible who worked miracles, and caused armies of the dead to rise from the ground, then yes you are correct it would be surprising if he did not make it into the history books. But if you are talking about a minor rabbi who established a cult with only a dozen followers, which only later grew to be a major religion, as old myths and legends attached themselves to what was originally a minor figure, then yes he could have escaped history in his own time. Remember Friar G. Mendle is now regarded as one of the nineteenth centuries great scientists. Yet had you asked any historian who he was just over a hundred year ago, they would have said. "Who."

So this isn't a women's forum but I don't think anyone is going to be offended by this - and also, ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Not really relevant to me, but I have to just wonder, at the vast amount of misinformation out there on every subject imaginable. What sort of idiot, pedaling what sort of woo, persuades women to put things like cleaners and steam up their vagina, and what sort of education system does a country ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Allamanda And of course the teaching of music and arts, would have done much to block the rise of crass commercial junk culture. There is nothing but good that comes from real education, which is perhaps why it is so much a part of the schools job to see that no one gets any.

So this isn't a women's forum but I don't think anyone is going to be offended by this - and also, ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Not really relevant to me, but I have to just wonder, at the vast amount of misinformation out there on every subject imaginable. What sort of idiot, pedaling what sort of woo, persuades women to put things like cleaners and steam up their vagina, and what sort of education system does a country ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Allamanda No, we were left to our own devices. But of course if they wanted to truly abolish sexism, then they could have given us one, that is why I say the sexism line was just an excuse. Though I do think that part of the idea was that it was a female 'role' to do health care for the whole family including the males. It was a very different world then, but it did have its good points.

So this isn't a women's forum but I don't think anyone is going to be offended by this - and also, ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Not really relevant to me, but I have to just wonder, at the vast amount of misinformation out there on every subject imaginable. What sort of idiot, pedaling what sort of woo, persuades women to put things like cleaners and steam up their vagina, and what sort of education system does a country ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Allamanda I remember when young and at school. (Sixties onwards.) The school used to have a girls teacher and classroom, where the main thing taught was health care. I know, because although strictly closed to boys the girls told us. It was abolished by the last headmaster because it was said to be sexist, in part just an excuse, and also because the then fashion was that all education was supposed to be about preparing people for work, and anything else was outdated. He was not the only headmaster at the time to do this. The teacher left, and I don't think that the subject ever returned either. (He also threw out history, rural studies, which was environmentalism and gardening, and several other 'soft' subjects.) Yet I have to wonder, what could be more importants to society as a whole, and even an efficient work force, than that most of its population should have a good solid basic understanding of how to maintain their health. And don't get me started on rural studies.

In the profile questions, this appears: "Is there more than a 10% chance that the following are real...

Fernapple comments on Nov 8, 2019:

I think the list is there to pick up theist trolls who often try to enter the site. It forces them to openly admit who they are or to give false answers.

Fernapple replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Omnedon No idea. Except that some, perhaps foolish, atheists will use multiverse as an answer, when pressed by theists to explain what happened before the big bang, (Assumes belief in the big bang.) where as the best answer is. "I don't know because I have no evidence, and neither do you."

SPIRITUAL.

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Nice try, but sadly I think that you have no chance. The reason why people like to use the word spiritual, is because it has no fixed meaning, and therefore they can use it to mean anything they want, and moreover if they are challenged about any part of it, they can simply shift the meaning ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 7, 2019:

@maturin1919 Yes that may be true, but that is just the way it is, any person or group can, and frequently do, make up their own new meanings for words when ever they want. The dictionaries just follow in the wake. Example 'cool', which only a quarter century ago meant, between hot and cold, then meant without affectation, but now means in fashion. Words change and evolve all the time, and no force on earth will ever stop it. Personally I find the challenge of keeping up stimulating. Language may exist, but it has never helped us to communicate thoughts clearly and accurately with one another, and indeed there are many forces at work within human society trying their best to make sure that it does not.

SPIRITUAL.

Fernapple comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Nice try, but sadly I think that you have no chance. The reason why people like to use the word spiritual, is because it has no fixed meaning, and therefore they can use it to mean anything they want, and moreover if they are challenged about any part of it, they can simply shift the meaning ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 7, 2019:

@maturin1919 That's it. No word has a meaning only usages. But some are less meaningful than others.

Does anyone who was raised Christian still enjoy the music?

Organist1 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Ha-ha -I was raised Episcopalian, went to music college, got my Master's degree in music, and ended up being a church music director and organist for almost 40 years! I love the sound of well-written sacred music -Bach, Benjamin Britten, Handel, etc. Some of the best music was written for use in ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

The churches have in the western world, been the main patrons of all the arts for centuries, they are bound to have collected most of the best stuff therefore. It will sadly take the secular world a long time to catch up, but it is begining.

Typical - barely educated preacher from semi-developped country comes to lay waste to what little is...

LenHazell53 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

I Believe the technical term rhymes with Mucking Foron

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

Ym spilling mitooks ah niver that finny.

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 5, 2019:

Apart from Moosepucky, there don't seem to be many men sticking their necks out on this post ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

@mooredolezal Sorry, yes same here, spelt in haste.

So this might be for Brits only but would love a general opinion.

Fernapple comments on Nov 6, 2019:

No it is not just you. And it is all because we are supposed to celebrate the survival of a king, who most people then and now would think better in prison than ruling a country, in a war of terror fought over religion. The only true traditional part is the bonfire, which was once lit to celebrate ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

@Lorajay Quite possible.

It is Fall, and bloom time for Nerines .

dede18 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

@Fernapple You are probably familiar with "Guernsey lilies"? they are actually Nerines ... it is believed that the bulbs washed ashore (in the 1700s?) after a shipwreck and that they then naturalized on the island :-) I think they're a much stronger deep pink color, Nerine sarniensis ... There are ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

Yes know those. When I used to do flower shows, we always seemed to end up with our stall next to a company that speciallized in Nerines.

The afterlife and beyond

DeathNova comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Personally i have a neutral opinion on the subject. I don't think there is anything after death but the concept of there being nothing troubles me deeply

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

The classic reply to that is. "Being nothing did not trouble you before you were born, therefore why should it trouble you when you are dead."

So this might be for Brits only but would love a general opinion.

LenHazell53 comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Bonfire night was instituted much as Christmas was to replace a pagan festival. In the case of Christmas it was Yuletide, in the case of Bonfire night it was Samhain. Though Samhain was overlaid with All Hallows eve, much to the anger of the church the Bonfires and burning of the wicker man that ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 I would go to that one.

Does anyone else find it strange (and kind of creepy) when a person's bio on here describes them ...

Marionville comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Either a schizophrenic or a complete fraud!

Fernapple replies on Nov 6, 2019:

Blunt. But true.

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 5, 2019:

Apart from Moosepucky, there don't seem to be many men sticking their necks out on this post ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 5, 2019:

@AnneWimsey Real translations can be very funny. I do not know if you do it in the US, but in the UK we use the French phrase 'Cul de Sack' to mean a road with no exit. It even apprears on officail road signs. The French think that it is wildly funny when they see it. (I am not going to explain it, anyone who wants to know will have to google it.)

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 4, 2019:

Go on what does mine tell you ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 5, 2019:

@AnneWimsey No I am sorry to say that ferns do not carry apples, though some do make bulbils on the fronds. In fact ferns do not have sexual reproduction at all, but produce asexual spores from the little blisters, (which you may also be what you call apples) under their fronds. Sexual reproduction takes place on the ground by a separate microscopic stage called a prothalus. Therefore since I grow ferns, and had the problem because I am in business of finding a nom de plume, I thought of something which could never exist, to use for a name which does not exist. Sorry if that is a bit complex but I thought of it quickly.

So, gentlemen, has anyone mentioned that your chosen screen name can be quite informative?

Fernapple comments on Nov 4, 2019:

Go on what does mine tell you ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 4, 2019:

@moosepucky That is very good. The meaning is very criptic but you are very close. Well done.

Who agrees with videos posted by DarkMatter2525 on YouTube?

Fernapple comments on Oct 27, 2019:

Would never judge any group of videos. Show me one and I will tell you about that one.

Fernapple replies on Nov 4, 2019:

@TonyBurton Yes I agree with that, heres one of my favourites, it is a bit slow to start but stick with it if you can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttevamkS6gw=LL_715bOSsuSbbQz3Cnu2muw=2&t=75s

Still can't get it to load photos, even quite small ones now.

Bobbyzen comments on Nov 3, 2019:

@admin. I just got an error message trying to add a photo to my comment here. I’d share the screenshot of the error message but, well, it wouldn’t load. Here’s the message: “Error uploading file. Please try again” @Fernapple is that what’s happening to you? In comments? In posts? Or ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

Yes that's what I get.

Ok, so what are they going to do with a 1-ton rock?

Fernapple comments on Nov 3, 2019:

Sell them for garden ornaments perhaps ?

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Seen it. I came back and made another comment. Snide but wise.

They are back.

Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 3, 2019:

The artwork has got even tackier hasn’t it? Where are the smiling brown and white babies and sheep cuddling lions?

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

And the families out taking their whole zoo for a walk. Miss that.

They are back.

Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 3, 2019:

That’s interesting because yesterday there was a whole load of them on the estate where my daughters live. I don’t think I have seen them en masse since I have been in Australia which is nearly 13 years. Must have been a global directive!

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

They do follow orders. Though I don't know if the orders come from on high or down under.

I have the perception that religious people are coming to be part of nonreligious group to invade ...

GreatNani comments on Nov 3, 2019:

I am not seeing that much here at all. But I may be missing it, or not paying attention to it. I like this site very much.

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

I don't either, I think it has a lot to do with how your settings are framed.

Real 'Garden of Eden' where ALL humans originated 200,000 years ago finally found in Botswana

brentan comments on Nov 2, 2019:

What! Descended from black people? Quelle horreur! Seriously, though, that theory has been criticised for ignoring information that places evidence of early man in many places in Africa.

Fernapple replies on Nov 3, 2019:

@Moravian Yes but bishop Usher's, (May not have spelled that right.) basic data is still there in the bible, and even if you ignore it, there are large numbers of young earth creationists who don't. Science-guy makes a valid point.

I always love how ultra religious people will quote Leviticus and claim that the bible is gods word.

Fernapple comments on Nov 2, 2019:

They do have a loop hole, since St Paul told Christians that they could eat unclean things and that those laws only applied to Jews. However that is one of the reasons that, some, sects reject St Paul. Complicated isn't it, see what a mess you get in, when you start treating randomly selected old ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 2, 2019:

@genessa That's it in a nutshell.

I have been seen a pretty disturbing trend in social media among Atheists over the years.

Fernapple comments on Oct 27, 2019:

In any group of people, there are always going to be a few bad eggs and extremists who will misbehave. There are however a lot of atheists on this site, and as far as I can see there are very few who are abusive, and I certainly see no organized grouping intent on abusing theists deliberately. ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 2, 2019:

@OwlInASack Not for misrepresenting me, but just for being generally immoral, in the way they treat others.

As an atheist how do you respond to “i’ll pray for you.”?, I normally just smile and nod.

Fernapple comments on Nov 1, 2019:

Its different here in the UK, I have never heard it said. I think that here, even christians would think it impolite to offer to pray for someone without permission, and would think it vain to tell people about it if they did.

Fernapple replies on Nov 1, 2019:

@averykings That could be very true.

As an atheist how do you respond to “i’ll pray for you.”?, I normally just smile and nod.

Fernapple comments on Nov 1, 2019:

Its different here in the UK, I have never heard it said. I think that here, even christians would think it impolite to offer to pray for someone without permission, and would think it vain to tell people about it if they did.

Fernapple replies on Nov 1, 2019:

@averykings Yes I understand that it is a different world. PS have added a bit more to my comment.

Old saying, "When you assume, you make an ASS of U and ME"

Fernapple comments on Sep 24, 2019:

A consequence of urban life and the breakdown of real community, is that we all have to meet more and more people who we know nothing of, that of course means that lazy people make more and more assumptions to save effort. a lot of modern moral thinking is about trying to find ways to persuade ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 1, 2019:

@Remiforce At least socially, I do think that it is to a large degree a modern problem, since it hardly existed at least when we lived in small issolated extended families, whose main outside contact was with other groups who were already perhaps well known to them.

IS CHANGE GOD?

Fernapple comments on Oct 31, 2019:

God always was an idea, but while you can test the idea of change, the idea of god is untestable. Therefore since I can also test the idea of my kitchen table, by that logic, my kitchen table may be god.

Fernapple replies on Oct 31, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Believe you me, I have heard that one used for real. Dressed up fancy, but the same basic logic.

Funny animal singing while bathing

Fernapple comments on Oct 31, 2019:

The Link does not work, sorry.

Fernapple replies on Oct 31, 2019:

@bobwjr Still does not work, but if they blocked it deliberately, for political reasons, and it is D. Trump sitting in his bath, I do not want to look anyway.

12 December election is going to play havoc with MPs Christmas card lists!

Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:

I think that a fixed date election every year would be a good thing, and Dec 25th would work really well. After all for some reason most people do not work that day, no where is open and people get bored with nothing to do.

Fernapple replies on Oct 30, 2019:

@Simon1 Nothing, they still only get to vote for the same parties, the parties decide who gets the safe seats, so drunk or sober they still get the same MP.

The agnostic crowd is much more intelligent than the rest!! Sorry, but it is the truth.

Sticks48 comments on Oct 29, 2019:

49% of the population have an IQ of 99 or lower. I have blocked over 170 people on this site because I thought they were stupid or said really stupid things. Several have blocked me because they probably think I am stupid.

Fernapple replies on Oct 29, 2019:

@Allamanda You can unblock.

If you were a non believer in religion or god as a child did your school force you to say the Lords ...

Geoffrey51 comments on Oct 29, 2019:

Not forced, it was just what we did. Didn’t affect me at all I don’t think. I always had a problem with All Creatures Great And Small though. Didn’t like it for one minute. It was only when I got to my late 20’s I came across it again, I can’t remember how, but I realised that it was...

Fernapple replies on Oct 29, 2019:

You may enjoy this little factoid, because it really does sound like the almost perfect creationists response to Darwin, yet interestingly, and it came as quite a surprise to me, it was first published in 1848, eleven years before 'Origin Of Species' It may though have been a response to the already growing hypothisis of evolution, especially perhaps Chamber's 'Vestiages Of Creation'. Darwin is such a large elephant in the room, when we look backwards into history, that it is easy to overlook the fact, that evolution was already well established as and idea, when Origin Of Species came out.

I have been seen a pretty disturbing trend in social media among Atheists over the years.

Fernapple comments on Oct 27, 2019:

In any group of people, there are always going to be a few bad eggs and extremists who will misbehave. There are however a lot of atheists on this site, and as far as I can see there are very few who are abusive, and I certainly see no organized grouping intent on abusing theists deliberately. ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 29, 2019:

@Norman347 Yes that is true, though perhaps it is bound to be, since it is the intention of the vocal rabble, in any group, to become the unofficial poster children, that is their plan despite what others may do to stop them. I do tend to call them to question myself when I see them, but the truth is I do not see them that often on this site, in fact I often find people refering to things that are happening/trending on the site, which I have not seen at all. I think therefore that the site must vary a lot according to how you configure your settings.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 28, 2019:

@skado That is fine with me. However it is important not to overstress that aspect of it, because that is to risk thowing out a lot of complex motivations on the part of the writers, including the historical, political, sexual, economic and a lot which is simply meaning free.

[agnostic.com]

Mcflewster comments on Oct 27, 2019:

Does this also apply to logic?

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

I don't know, whose Logic, and why don't you ask them ?

For a short while I own a vast golden treasure, and then the Ginkgo will drop its leaves.

Allamanda comments on Oct 27, 2019:

had no idea! I've never seen them do that!

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

May be different in the US but here in the UK, they are grown especially for autumn colour as much as anything else.

math is so hard

Fernapple comments on Oct 25, 2019:

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

@rogerbenham Nor me. Though I do find that the squares of two sequence, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc. is very useful, and crops up in a lot of things. And have often thought that it should be taught in schools alongside the times tables.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

@skado Yes I agree wholly with that, that is my view too. (See my first comment on this post.) One of the things that make it interesting is the rich mosaic, of many different forms. The largest part being myth, with in addition some poetry, some tabloid trashy gossip, some genuine history, some news reportage and a few quite deliberate lies of political and religious propaganda intended to mislead. But that is why reading into it an intent on the part of the authors to do any one thing, including the deliberate writing of metaphor, just as much as thinking it to be literal truth, is so wrong. The authors, editors and translators, were so many, that their attitude to the mythalogical elements must have varied greatly, from regarding it as metaphor themselves, through simple literal belief, to seeing it as useful lies.

My local town on a rainy day.

Merseyman1 comments on Oct 26, 2019:

Beautiful town, unfortunately the spire collapsed and today Salisbury has the tallest spire and biggest cathedral...

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

Yes my message should read, tallest spire on a parish church.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 26, 2019:

@skado And as I have said before I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the idea that the bible was written with metaphor as its intention. I do not dream in written text, neither do I write while sleeping, whatever my sub conscious motivations may be when writing my intent when writing is quite conscious, and wholly contained within what you call the veneer. As it was in biblical times. The authors intent has nothing to do with the hidden motivations behind it, whatever others may read of those motivations. And since much of the bible is political propaganda, concerned with the claims that the Jewish people made to ownership of the lands. I am pretty confident that any suggestion, that the propaganda was anything but objective and rational, would, had you made it to a biblical author, have been met with a strong rebuttal if not a violent one, just as any suggestion of the sort about today's political propaganda would. It is simply too great an oversimplification to suggest that a book as complex as the bible is all of one sort, and has always to be read in just one way.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@skado Yes but biblical times are today, in evolutionary terms. It is unlikely anything has changed in that short a time.

My local town on a rainy day.

Lincoln55 comments on Oct 25, 2019:

That looks so familiar to me. Now I'll be searching through old photos.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

Would you like me to tell you or are you enjoying the hunt ?

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@skado No why ?

My local town on a rainy day.

ToolGuy comments on Oct 25, 2019:

Great church photo. But I did not like the redacted photo. The big black blob detracted from whatever the photo was about.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@ToolGuy Good advice, thanks, though I have not found a blur feature on my photo editor yet, and the main point was the chuch scene, the other photo was just for added fun.

My local town on a rainy day.

ToolGuy comments on Oct 25, 2019:

Great church photo. But I did not like the redacted photo. The big black blob detracted from whatever the photo was about.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

Yep, we should keep a digital face data base, so that we can spot them and mock them wherever they go. Whatever was I thinking of.

Stephen Hawking famously said that "Philosophy is dead." What do you think?

IamNobody comments on Oct 25, 2019:

When/where did Stephen Hawking said that? Any reference please?

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

Good question.

Anyone ever notice that the crucified Jesus is shown in pictures as being both nailed and also tied ...

brentan comments on Oct 25, 2019:

This was very important when I was a Jehovah's Witness. I think stake is correct (Greek stauros, if memory serves well). If so, I guess one hand had to be placed behind the other and a nail put hammered through the two of them. This would put more strain on the nail (poor nail!) than one nail per ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

That is a very good point that it was perhaps a stake and not a cross which was used, one common explanation for this however is that it was both. The stake being a fixture, and the cross/cross bar being the part carried by the victim. This makes since since the crowd would not want to watch while holes were dug and stakes planted, but watching the victim being lifted or hoisted into place may well have been part of the entertainment.

Science vs religion Atheist historical nogodexists aincentphilosophy Agonostic

Pedrohbds comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The idea of the text is correct, but to tell 33 AD or say that Epicurus said that is completely wrong. First, he died before 200AC so he was not saying much stuff on 33AC Second The idea of a monotheistic all powerful god was restricted to some tribes in the middle east, although Alexanders ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@Pedrohbds No I do not know where the AD 33 comes from on this picture quote, unless it is one of the supposed dates of the crucifiction, and that someone is trying, badly and unclearly, to relate it to the origins of Chritianity.

Stephen Hawking famously said that "Philosophy is dead." What do you think?

Fernapple comments on Oct 25, 2019:

In the past a lot of philosophy was concerned with the business of describing how the material world worked, as was religion. In those roles, certainly one philosophy, natural philosophy, which we now call science, superseded all the others, when it developed the scientific method, which set a ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@Pedrohbds Yes, I quite agree. But please note that I did qualify my statement with the words, "to a large degree". Please read carefully.

Science vs religion Atheist historical nogodexists aincentphilosophy Agonostic

Pedrohbds comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The idea of the text is correct, but to tell 33 AD or say that Epicurus said that is completely wrong. First, he died before 200AC so he was not saying much stuff on 33AC Second The idea of a monotheistic all powerful god was restricted to some tribes in the middle east, although Alexanders ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

It is certainly wrong to attribute this quote to Epicurus. (See Geoffrey51 above for a history.) However it is also wrong to assume that, monotheism only began with some tribes in the middle east. Many of the classical authors use a monotheist god idea metaphorically, and it exists as such, in many polytheisic cultures such as Hinduism. The Pharaoh Akhenaten also promoted it as a literal truth. It is in any case such a moronically simplistic idea, that it would be hard to imagine that it has not always existed across many cultures. While certainly any even moderately intelligent thinker, and there is no reason to supose that Epicurus was not that, could have concieved the idea for himself if only for metaphorical use.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

"Symbolic imagery has a much longer history in the human story than literal, descriptive prose does." Is merely an assertion based on a subjective judgement about early writings, there can never be objective evidence for the motivations of any authors without their own direct testamony to their intentions. Before accepting that, I would like to get in your time machine with you and go back to observe for myself, when you interview one of the authors of a book like the bible please. Until then I will go with another literary figure from the past, L. Tolstoy, when he said that human nature does not change with the passage of time. At least not on historical time scales. And the Bible at least does not fall into that early period, certainly from the six century BCE until the fall of classical culture, literature was as rich and diverse in forms as it is today. From the early objective science of Aristotle, to the overt political propaganda the Pharaohs inscribed on their many monuments, to the tabloid gossip of Herodotus, the beautiful objectivity of Euclid, and the careful studies of the human condition made by the Stoic philosophers. (Yes, I do know about Plato too, but even his thoughts are a mixture, with many direct objective inclusions.) To say that. "Symbolic imagery has a much longer history in the human story than literal, descriptive prose does." Is either to deny the great richness of human creativity, and see people in the past as belonging to a primitive race not truly human as modern people are. Or to go the other way, and if you believe that the literature of, "symbolic imagery" is in some way a higher form than others, then you create a Golden Age myth which is equally false. And yes of course most of human subjective experience is totally meaningless, though I would not put it as high as 99%. Because so is most of human thought, including our best attempts at being objective. Just because something is expressed subjectively does not mean that it is correct, only that it does not offer itself to objective disproof.

George Bernard Shaw - “All religions begin with a revolt against morality, and perish when ...

brentan comments on Oct 24, 2019:

I wonder what he meant.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

He meant that old religions are often evil, and that in the end they are changed and overthrown by new religions with better standards of morality, which then in turn loose their morality and sink into evil, until they two are overturned. He thought that that meant progress, but it does of course also mean that there is always some religion out there, which is preserving ultra conservative and debased morality, so that religion is a constant brake on progress.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The main thing to remember about the bible is it history. The bible is not a book, in fact it is a scrap book of cuttings, containing parts from at least sixty six books, written by forty or more authors, and put together by numberless editors over more than a thousand years, and then frequently ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@skado Fair enough.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The main thing to remember about the bible is it history. The bible is not a book, in fact it is a scrap book of cuttings, containing parts from at least sixty six books, written by forty or more authors, and put together by numberless editors over more than a thousand years, and then frequently ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2019:

@skado Yes, and as I said before, I have no problem with the academic and scientific study of religion as such. My problem is with the pseudo-science of theology when it claims to work within the Christian cultural tradition. Because by so doing it supports and fosters that cultural tradition and all the evils that go with it. Some things are just not acceptable even in the name of science. The theologians are guilty of the same sort of moral blindness used by those scientists and pseudo-scientists who collaborated with the Nazis in the death camps, because that would allow them the chance to conduct experiments on living humans. The experiments of the theologians are not so immediately inhuman, and take place at one step removed, yet they still share the guilt for all the deaths and miseries caused to millions which religion inflicts every year, because they remain one of the main props of religion.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The main thing to remember about the bible is it history. The bible is not a book, in fact it is a scrap book of cuttings, containing parts from at least sixty six books, written by forty or more authors, and put together by numberless editors over more than a thousand years, and then frequently ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2019:

@skado True, but how can any of the millions of christians look at the bible in a scientific way, since its culture is so deeply rooted as to prevent any objective study, only a none christian could do that.

What is one of your favorite sayings?

Dancing comments on Oct 23, 2019:

Fake it, till you make it.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

Advice given by priests to many church goers I hear. LOL ( Sorry not going down the bedroom humour route.)

Here is a rather interesting religious twist

Fernapple comments on Oct 23, 2019:

If you are going to pick a fictional hero, why not go for Whinny the Pooh's Eeyore, a much wiser and far more realistic persona. With a really good take on stoic philosophy.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

@LenHazell53 No, thanks for the tip.

“When you stick your butt out, you get your temperature taken.” Danish saying

Killtheskyfairy comments on Oct 22, 2019:

The Danish are weird.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

@altschmerz Perhaps more, called into question, than criticized maybe ?

Anyone else NOT raised in a religious family?

Fernapple comments on Oct 22, 2019:

No real religion or interest in it in my upbringing, which is fairly commonplace in the UK.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

@St-Sinner Yes of course. First, because what does the church have to offer, which is more than an alternative community to that run by the state. Two, because when the church is an agent of the state it is tainted by the crimes of the political establishment, and embarrassed by being an apologist for the political establishment and the crimes of that state. Three, it has no competitive profit motive to drive it but it under prices the other churches. The church is at its strongest in Russia of all countries, because the government tried to ban it.

Anyone else NOT raised in a religious family?

Fernapple comments on Oct 22, 2019:

No real religion or interest in it in my upbringing, which is fairly commonplace in the UK.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@St-Sinner In a lot of Europe, the UK included, there are state churches, and there is nothing that kills religion quite as fast. If the Us did not have separation of church and state, it would probably be dead there as well.

It seems life never stops stomping on me.

Fernapple comments on Oct 22, 2019:

You are not alone, there are a lot of people here , who will value your input. And if things get really bad message some of those near you and meet up. Most of all if you are isolated think about travel, there is a whole world out there, and we live in the first age when travel is really easy, and ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@Sharkymama Everyone, on line or not, always has more friends than they think, we always underestimate how much people care. Kind words don't always solve problemsbut sometimes they are the best you can give, they come with good wishes.

Not all who wander are lost...

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Beer.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@snytiger6 Sounds wonderful, be careful, you could get me believing in heaven.

Why so many posts about God?

1of5 comments on Oct 21, 2019:

I agree, but it is supposedly what "binds us together as a group" and shit so will be a common topic. I think we should explore the mythology behind *Grimm's Fairy Tales* myself. Much more interesting, better moral teachings, and much much less genocide.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@OldMetalHead I did not know that bit about China, thank you for sharing, I will look that up.

Why so many posts about God?

1of5 comments on Oct 21, 2019:

I agree, but it is supposedly what "binds us together as a group" and shit so will be a common topic. I think we should explore the mythology behind *Grimm's Fairy Tales* myself. Much more interesting, better moral teachings, and much much less genocide.

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

Don't forget Whinny the Pooh.

Life is constantly throwing bad news at us.

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Always took the stoic view, that if you expect the worst, life will always turn out better than you expected. I usually assume a very bleak outlook and life seems good. Only disappointed optimists fall into Cynicism and depression. I also remember that there is little profit for anyone in telling ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

@Allamanda Simple. Man dies of heart attack in street, equals news story in the papers next day. Yesterday the local hospital saved the lives of twenty heart attack victims, just as it does on average every day. Who would report that. Also see my second comment on this post above, they are quite long videos, and not the one I was looking for, (will keep trying) but I think you will find them rewarding.

LOL 😂 well, the bible was translated so many times! How do we really know??!

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Come on, he hung about with twelve other men, who he told to leave their families behind and love one another, just as the country was being culturally colonized by the Greeks who idealized homosexuality as the highest form of love. Come on who are you kidding. LOL

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

@vjohnson51 Yes, on a serious note it is true that the feeling that you get from early christianity is that homosexuallity would have been quite normal, the old testament view was after all completely out of fashion with thinking people at that time.

LOL 😂 well, the bible was translated so many times! How do we really know??!

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Come on, he hung about with twelve other men, who he told to leave their families behind and love one another, just as the country was being culturally colonized by the Greeks who idealized homosexuality as the highest form of love. Come on who are you kidding. LOL

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

@hankster No he had a donkey for that..........or maybe ?

“It is not in the stars hold our destiny but in ourselves”.............William Shakespeare.

IamNobody comments on Oct 21, 2019:

I have mentioned few times that I don't "speak" Shakespeare, however this one is crystal clear. I couldn't agree more. Good things are my glory, bad things are my own fault. After many times around the Sun, this is accurate for me.

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

"After many times around the Sun," So you don't read Shakespeare but you do write Shakespeare.

Ok.

KKGator comments on Oct 20, 2019:

That depends on what is being proffered as to whether I will bash. I make no promises

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2019:

You need make no promises, when it comes to bash or not, we all know which way you will go. LOL. And long may you do so.

We made too many wrong mistakes. - Yogi Berra

Marionville comments on Oct 20, 2019:

Is there a right mistake?

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2019:

Sounds a lot wiser than it really is. Me thinks.

Sssssooooo, if god was/is/use to be without form and void, to the point that there was nothing ...

Davesnothere comments on Oct 18, 2019:

Conflates the TWO origin stories in Genesis, Chapter one and Chapter two. In one its "Male and female -- be fruitful and multiply" Chapter 2 is Adam and Eve. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 19, 2019:

@dahermit Could be. LOL