I've posted this before but every time I do I get berated for doing so.

Fernapple comments on Jun 4, 2019:

No words have meanings, only usages. They are just tags which we attach to ideas which we can move and change, and do move and change, at will. If we are lucky those tags attach to approximately, ( never exactly ) the same ideas in the minds of others and that helps us to communicate. However ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2019:

@EdwinMcCravy The point is that you have to ask them that, since the point of the usage rule is that every user has a different usage, and that therefore every believer has a different god. In the post with genessa below, you state that you know exactly what a unicorn is when someone uses the word, actually no you don't. When someone uses the word unicorn the picture that you will have in your mind will be quite different from the one they have in theirs, and the one in mine. As will the picture of a thing which really does exist, such as elephant. That is the nature of all words not just god, that they are only vague and the details are different with usage. And the whole point of god is that it is perhaps impossible to define, even more than most words, ( except perhaps that other joke word "spiritual" ). Since that enables the believer to evade all need to prove the existence of god by simply redefining it when challeged, and to attract the widest support, (holy books are usually valued exactly because they are vague and can mean anything,) if you fail to see that then you fall into their trap. Atheism is perhaps more the opposition to poor definition than anything else.

Politics has slain its thousands,but religion has slain its tens of thousands.

Fernapple comments on Jun 5, 2019:

And not just slain in the violent sense, but how many millions died because religion encouraged poor hygiene, bad medical practices, dangerous rituals and and slowed technical progress ?

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2019:

@actofdog Yes even R. Dawkins said that he found the catholic church more sensible than a lot of the more fringe potestant churches, but sadly I get the feeling that the mad fundamentalists are begining to pull even the church of Rome in their direction.

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” Sam Harris

Fernapple comments on Jun 3, 2019:

We are a storm which is doing horrible damage across the face of the planet.

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2019:

@mrdunn It is of no importance in that sense if there is an illusion of reality or not, because if everything is an illusion then the illusion stands in the place of reality and may therefore be treated as the equivalent of reality. And the illusion therefore still obeys laws, such as those of evolution, which can be understood or not. Certainly there could be two degrees of illusion in that sense, both the illusion that is the universe and the inner model of the outer illusion which may exist in the smaller illusion which we call our brains, (which certainly is an illusion even if there is an outer reality ) but that does not alter anything since the perceptions that we have, are all that we have, and nothing about them changes if we regards them as illusions or reality since there is no alternative with which to compare them.

Pastor Busted for Asking Underage Girl to Join Other Underage Girl for Threesome | Hemant Mehta | ...

Piratefish comments on Jun 4, 2019:

Where the @#$%& do these degenerates get the balls to actually do some of these sick and highly illegal things? I mean, you would either have to have stones the size of tennis balls, or be incredibly stupid. I hope he gets all 5 years, and then has to register for life (not to mention, ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2019:

If you think you are the voice of god, then you are both very dumb and oversized in the self confidence (balls) area.

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” Sam Harris

Fernapple comments on Jun 3, 2019:

We are a storm which is doing horrible damage across the face of the planet.

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2019:

@mrdunn Yes of course all possibles are unsupported by evidence, that is accepting what listing possibles are all you can do is for. I did not claim that they could be said in any way to be true, only "possibles" and I leave it open ended, because I am sure there are many more possibles, some of which will no doubt occure to you. At the point where there is an end to evidence the most sensible thing to do is to list the possibles as well as you can, and then accept your need for more evidence, or else you are in danger of postulating magical answers. It is not an appeal to ignorance, but an acceptance of ignorance, which is quite a different thing. Appeal to ignorance is a fallacy in informal logic, which asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven untrue. At no time did I assert that any of the ideas were true which is why I use the word possibles. It is another related "possible" that since humans are creatures whose brains evolved for survival on the plains of Africa, not for understanding the working of the universe, that therefore although the universe may follow its own perfect laws, our brains are quite incapable of understanding them. For example, perhaps one day, we may invent a robort/computer, which can gather all the evidence needed and solve the riddles, but there is no certainty that it would be able to explain its results to us however hard it tried. Nor is there any certainty that they are solvable by any brain.

The word “happy” would lose it’s meaning if it were not balanced by sadness.......Carl Jung.

AnonySchmoose comments on Jun 5, 2019:

At about twenty, I knew that some people lived in a perpetually indifferent state, and preferred to 'live' that way. It was difficult to comprehend why they would shut off an array of emotions. They were choosing to live a drab life.

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2019:

To quote a Christian for once."But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure, Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor, Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears." K. Gibran

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” Sam Harris

Fernapple comments on Jun 3, 2019:

We are a storm which is doing horrible damage across the face of the planet.

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2019:

@mrdunn No I think that it is a paradox. The religious believe that they can get round the paradox of course by just dropping in god, as they always do. But of course it is equally possible to ask the same question of a creator. "Is there a beginning to this chain of causality (god), an original uncaused cause (god), or is it an infinite regression (of god)?" As it is of the physical universe, the question who created god is just as valid. Therefore that does not resolve the paradox but only moves it back a stage, and the statement that god is eternal and outside of time, so that therefore it trumps the paradox out of existence, is merely an assertion not supported by any evidence and so just an appeal to magic/miracles. For interests sake you may also like to think about two other possibles. One: the universe goes round in a loop. (the big bang being a stage in the loop). Two: the universe is static and cause and effect plus time are only local illusions, which form part of a static whole; like one of those old paintings where the sails of the windmill went round by clockwork.

Why do you use agnostic.com?

Fernapple comments on Jun 4, 2019:

Yes sometimes the stories are almost too hard to read, they certainly make my small troubles seem easy to endure. Grounded yes.

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2019:

@Bigwavedave Some maybe sick or house bound or insomniacs, for such people it may be a great blessing that they have a site like this, where they can get social interaction at all hours. I am self employed without regular times, so often there is a odd half hour to relax at strange times of the day and therefore the fact that this site is always there is good for me too.

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” Sam Harris

Fernapple comments on Jun 3, 2019:

We are a storm which is doing horrible damage across the face of the planet.

Fernapple replies on Jun 4, 2019:

@mrdunn Unknown.

Why do you use agnostic.com?

Jolanta comments on Jun 3, 2019:

Don’t worry about hitting level 8 or higher, nothing different happens there.

Fernapple replies on Jun 4, 2019:

Nine is when they send you the invoice isn't it ?. LOL

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” Sam Harris

Fernapple comments on Jun 3, 2019:

We are a storm which is doing horrible damage across the face of the planet.

Fernapple replies on Jun 4, 2019:

@mrdunn All the way back.

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” Sam Harris

Fernapple comments on Jun 3, 2019:

We are a storm which is doing horrible damage across the face of the planet.

Fernapple replies on Jun 3, 2019:

@mrdunn Yep.

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” Sam Harris

BestWithoutGods comments on Jun 3, 2019:

So, if I am the storm and I am not controlling it, do I have no self-control? 😮

Fernapple replies on Jun 3, 2019:

No, I think that self control is an illusion just as much a god. We are completely deterministic.

There are two ways of exerting one’s strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling ...

Fernapple comments on Jun 3, 2019:

Or you can just stand. Which is sometimes enough.

Fernapple replies on Jun 3, 2019:

@Marionville Yes that is how I understood it. But sometimes just setting an example of enduring is the best and most useful thing you can do.

Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood.

Theresa_N comments on May 29, 2019:

She should have been more afraid, of radiation. It killed her.

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2019:

@Marionville I think that to a large extent she was just unaware of the risks. She did after all help to promote the "health" benefits of radiation. The fears she faced politically were perhaps more real to her, after all she only gained an education in the first place because the resistance movement in occupied Poland ran an underground university.

Have you ever been annoyed by just the sight or voice of a person?

CommonHuman comments on May 26, 2019:

Grown women who speak in little girl voice, or intentionally hiss their ss's trying to be cute/sexy. Any adult whose voice is 1/2 whine. It is nails on chalkboard.

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2019:

And when they tilt their heads to give a cutesy look out of the side of their eyes. Best given up when you turn ten.

Have you ever been annoyed by just the sight or voice of a person?

FrostyJim comments on May 26, 2019:

YES ...the great orange orangutan himself donny trump !!!

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2019:

Don't malign orangutans, they are lovely animals with feelings.

Does this group do anything consrtuctive that benefits society?

Amisja comments on May 27, 2019:

I exist ;)

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2019:

And the benefitts of that are beyond measure.

Pics of polar bears playing in flowers...bittersweet beauty...

Babyoda comments on May 25, 2019:

I know what you mean by bittersweet. With the climate changes I feel like the last polar bear could evolve to have a magenta/fushia camouflage.Beautiful pictures of a very clean and healthy polar bear.

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2019:

@Gmak Politicians don't taste good, polar bears are picky.

Selfishness as a virtue?

Fernapple comments on May 25, 2019:

I do not agree, but it is true that misplaced or ill thought out altruism perhaps does more harm in the world overall than bad intent.

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2019:

@OwlInASack Yet most people are well meaning, really evil intent is rare. At the extreme for the sake of argument; you save someone from drowning, you save a life, but you also contribute to the population crisis. At the extreme it may often be that there are no good choices. Therefore how likely is it that we make the best ones any of the time. It was once said that all the worlds problems would be solved overnight, if everyone was content with a bowl of gruel for each meal, gave up their houses and spent the rest of their, none working, time in a well insulated box like a coffin. With modern technology we would have to work perhaps an hour or two a week for that lifestyle and would use very little land or resouces. Our negative impact on the world and each other would then be small, ninety nine percent of everything we do and nearly all of the harm the human population causes, is caused by our need for entertainment, including all that we call "meaning and community". When we help others to fullfill their potential in any way, we contribute to the problems of the planet.

Many religious institutions have in the past tried to limit secular entertainment, usually under the...

thinktwice comments on May 25, 2019:

Secular entertainment contains too much sex and violence and also might show different views or bad behavior...it is not just the religious that are concerned about this....we all should be...many of the movies and entertainment dumb people down with ridiculous plots, poor behavior, violence toward ...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2019:

Yes that is true, I was thinking more historically about the deep tradition, but it could well be said that it is no bad thing to have organized opposition to mainstream culture, and that that is one of the few benefits of religion.

Everything is lush and full of flower now, especially in the wood.

JackPedigo comments on May 25, 2019:

It looks so manicured and neat. Not like our woods. Ours is mostly 2nd and 3rd growth and is overcrowded and full of dead branches.

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2019:

Its just a small wood at the bottom of my garden, I keep it tidy.

"I think the call to prayer, despite what I think about the doctrine of Islam, is one of the most ...

Marionville comments on May 23, 2019:

No....but I suppose the things that already have been built...such as the beautiful churches, cathedrals and mosques, some of them the most magnificent structures ever designed and built by man, dedicated to the glory god, but nevertheless made by man. The wonderful music too, some of the best ...

Fernapple replies on May 25, 2019:

That is sad. For me the middle east meant traveling and botany, so the call to prayer is associated in my mind with waking up somewhere warm and sunny with the prospect of interesting plants and mountain walking in the day to come. I guess that association makes a big difference.

"I think the call to prayer, despite what I think about the doctrine of Islam, is one of the most ...

Marionville comments on May 23, 2019:

No....but I suppose the things that already have been built...such as the beautiful churches, cathedrals and mosques, some of them the most magnificent structures ever designed and built by man, dedicated to the glory god, but nevertheless made by man. The wonderful music too, some of the best ...

Fernapple replies on May 25, 2019:

@Arouet The churches of course were the only institutions with money to spend on entertainments, and the only place most people could go for entertainment or to see art. They did their best often to squash secular arts usually giving the promotion of vice as the reason, but of course it was really just to maintain their monopoly on the entertainments industry.

I think that someone blocked me, that never happened before, does it mean that I am now a proper ...

ipdg77 comments on May 21, 2019:

Only if they blocked you because you thoroughly pissed them off :-)

Fernapple replies on May 22, 2019:

Sadly I think it is just a profesional bore being a big baby.

I got a stupid question to ask : Let's say u are arrested today and your closest people are ...

Donna_I comments on May 20, 2019:

A moving violation of some sort though I mostly keep it under control.

Fernapple replies on May 21, 2019:

@Pralina1 Driving your car badly.

I have been thinking about getting married again after so many years of being a widower.

THHA comments on May 18, 2019:

I figure it this way, if I marry when I have one foot in the grave, at least I will have a way out . . .

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Same with everything at my age.

Evolution deniers are the worst

davknight comments on May 18, 2019:

Just ask them "How do you think you got a tail bone?".

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Or why did you have gill slits when you were in your mothers womb.

The Bible was made up over a number of centuries by many different editors using multiple sources.

BlastedRedeemer comments on May 18, 2019:

The bible is to literature what hot dogs are to cuisine: press a bunch of rancid, low-quality tripe into a package and serve it up to a bunch of drooling bumpkins.

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

My thought exactly, (see my replies below) , but you put it better than me.

I think that someone blocked me, that never happened before, does it mean that I am now a proper ...

Cutiebeauty comments on May 18, 2019:

It means you've finally met one of those people who like to hear themselves talk and they don't like opposing ideas... 😊

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Sadly it is quite a mature person, in years at least. I thought that by that age people should be grown up enough to wear big pants, but it seems not.

The Bible was made up over a number of centuries by many different editors using multiple sources.

Marionville comments on May 18, 2019:

It is what I have always described as a collection of fables and tales....rather similar in nature to The Arabian Nights...or One Thousand and One Nights as it is more correctly named. They are a collection of fables, folklore and morality stories which were written in Arabic and were collected ...

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Perhaps yes, but I do think that they make a better whole than the bible.

The Bible was made up over a number of centuries by many different editors using multiple sources.

brentan comments on May 18, 2019:

One meaning of literature is writing worthy of being remembered. Another is 'writings in which expression and form, in connection with ideas of permanent and universal interest, are characteristic or essential features, as poetry, novels, history, biography, and essays'. I think that means ...

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

I think that stories that get passed down however, tend to gets passed down because they have populist appeal, which often sadly mean that they appeal to our base natures. This is what I posted to Anonyschm below. Is it high or good literature ? I thought it would be good to compare it with some headlines culled from the trash gutter press. Such as: “ Pimp kicked prostitute even when he found her dead.” “ Executive head of syndicate arranged death of his second, after spying on his beautiful wife in the bath.” “Mad general orders even animals killed a stricken city falls.” “Elderly couple treated surrogate mother as slave, then abandoned her when they decided they did not want baby.” “Young mother claims she is still a virgin.” Oh sorry that is my mistake, wrong list, those are the ones I got from the bible.

The Bible was made up over a number of centuries by many different editors using multiple sources.

AnonySchmoose comments on May 18, 2019:

I think of it as literature too, not entirely as literal history, but as figurative. Even though apt scribes could write well, that does not guarantee that the collected 'clippings' from many editors over centuries could achieve a standard that would put the Bible in a literary canon, thereby ...

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

@AnonySchmoose Don't know the Enquirer of course but we wou;ld call them Red Tops.

Luciano Pavarotti. - Giuseppe Verdi, La Donna e’Mobile (Rigoletto) [youtu.be]

Fernapple comments on May 18, 2019:

Wonderful rendering.

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

@Marionville And he was handsom and rogueish looking then, well suited to the role.

The Bible was made up over a number of centuries by many different editors using multiple sources.

AnonySchmoose comments on May 18, 2019:

I think of it as literature too, not entirely as literal history, but as figurative. Even though apt scribes could write well, that does not guarantee that the collected 'clippings' from many editors over centuries could achieve a standard that would put the Bible in a literary canon, thereby ...

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Every thing is literature, but is it high or good literature. I thought it would be good to compare it with some headlines culled from the trash gutter press. Such as: “ Pimp kicked prostitute even when he found her dead.” “ Executive head of syndicate arranged death of his second, after spying on his beautiful wife in the bath.” “Mad general orders even animals killed a stricken city falls.” “Elderly couple treated surrogate mother as slave, then abandoned her when they decided they did not want baby.” “Young mother claims she is still a virgin.” Oh sorry that is my mistake, wrong list, those are the ones I got from the bible.

how do you define success?

billhoo comments on May 17, 2019:

Don’t know that I would recognize success if I achieved it. It’s mostly relative I guess. I would like to die with the least regrets as possible though.

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

That's as good a measure of success as any I have heard. I always thought of it as, dying knowing that you have done your best to make the world a better place, but it works even better the other way round in the negative, as you put it.

I thought that the reply button not working, was perhaps only be for those using the android, but it...

ToolGuy comments on May 17, 2019:

Clear your cache.

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Thanks, but did not work.

I think that someone blocked me, that never happened before, does it mean that I am now a proper ...

sassygirl3869 comments on May 17, 2019:

Which group? Some are more toxic than others to dissenting members.

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Not a group a member, a person who posts long posts quoting other people was begining to bore me. So I wrote. "Another derivitive post, do you ever have any original ideas of your own ? " Did not think he was such a big baby, should have guessed he had no sense of humour given how uncritical he was of the matterial.

I think that someone blocked me, that never happened before, does it mean that I am now a proper ...

Geoffrey51 comments on May 17, 2019:

Congratulations! Cage rattling should be an Olympic sport!

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

A certain person who posts long posts quoting other people was begining to bore me. So I wrote. "Another derivitive post, do you ever have any original ideas of your own ? " Did not think he was such a big baby, but there you go, don't think I shall miss much.

I think that someone blocked me, that never happened before, does it mean that I am now a proper ...

NoPlanetB comments on May 17, 2019:

No, not until you get trolled by one of your groups admin. Then you'll be validated. :D

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Thank I will keep on trying. LOL

I think that someone blocked me, that never happened before, does it mean that I am now a proper ...

birdingnut comments on May 17, 2019:

If you want to be blocked, say something controversial, or be rude to a woman, and she could block you. I block men who are rude, crude, or lewd to me or any other woman. Also men who are married, in a relationship, say they are looking for hook ups, polyamorous, etc.

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

Don't blame you for blocking people who are sexually inept. It is sad but sites with a dating content are bound to attract people who can't get dates by the normal routes.

I think that someone blocked me, that never happened before, does it mean that I am now a proper ...

birdingnut comments on May 17, 2019:

If you want to be blocked, say something controversial, or be rude to a woman, and she could block you. I block men who are rude, crude, or lewd to me or any other woman. Also men who are married, in a relationship, say they are looking for hook ups, polyamorous, etc.

Fernapple replies on May 18, 2019:

A certain person who posts long posts quoting other people was begining to bore me. So I wrote. "Another derivitive post, do you ever have any original ideas of your own ? " Did not think he was such a big baby. LOL

I thought that the reply button not working, was perhaps only be for those using the android, but it...

Robecology comments on May 17, 2019:

My "reply" ability returned yesterday afternoon. Now my only issue is that the headings above (groups > community Senate - in this case) are almost invisible. I tried changing my color scheme; no luck. Suggestions?

Fernapple replies on May 17, 2019:

No suggestions, but if you get this the button is working !

In the past six years I have lost a daughter, my son, my wife and most recently my right leg.

VictoriaNotes comments on May 13, 2019:

I'm so sorry for the loss of your loved ones and losing a leg. I've experienced trauma and loss both as a believer and a nonbeliever, and it was much harder when I was a believer for various reasons such as "testing our faith", etc. I don't think most believers fully grieve their losses. They deny ...

Fernapple replies on May 13, 2019:

Great quote, I will try to remember that one.

I had a stall today, at the plant fair at Doddington Hall, it was a lovely day, sold lots of plants.

Zoohome comments on May 12, 2019:

Fun!!!! The weather played along. Did you get anything special or different? I went to a local plant sale yesterday, came home with 11 pots. 😄

Fernapple replies on May 13, 2019:

Weather was beautiful, after a week of nearly solid rain. I go mainly to sell but of course I came home with nine pots for my own garden, so you beat me on numbers, mainly Lupins, but a lovely Vebena too to bring the butterflies into the garden.

I had a stall today, at the plant fair at Doddington Hall, it was a lovely day, sold lots of plants.

CeliaVL comments on May 12, 2019:

Looks like a very nice event. Were you selling for yourself or for a cause? What plants did you have? I wish I could do the same - I have masses I would like to share but it doesn't happen here in central Spain

Fernapple replies on May 13, 2019:

They are my own plants, mainly perennials. I go to these evennts mainly for the public expossure to promote the nursery, but the sales are useful too. It also gets me out and usually I come back with a lot of plants for the garden too.

I had a stall today, at the plant fair at Doddington Hall, it was a lovely day, sold lots of plants.

FrayedBear comments on May 12, 2019:

Very decadent. Nice weather.

Fernapple replies on May 13, 2019:

I love my bit of decadence, just don't get enough of it. The bowls club asked me to be Vice Chairman, but strangely they have havn't asked me to organize any vice yet.

The Maidenhair and Harts Tongue ferns are at their lush best beside the water spout now.

HeathenFarmer comments on May 11, 2019:

Must be nice to live in the tropics, our trees are not in leaf yet.

Fernapple replies on May 11, 2019:

Not in the tropics in UK.

The Maidenhair and Harts Tongue ferns are at their lush best beside the water spout now.

Carin comments on May 11, 2019:

Ooohhhh....is that your yard????

Fernapple replies on May 11, 2019:

Yes twenty yards behind the house, it feeds into a rill which runs down to a pond.

The Maidenhair and Harts Tongue ferns are at their lush best beside the water spout now.

Zoohome comments on May 10, 2019:

Referring to Harts Tongue fern, I believe we call that Bird's Nest here in Florida. I have a thing for ferns and moss. My new project is a small water fountain where I'll be able to place some of my humidity/water lover plants. Beautiful and very lush like spinliesel said.

Fernapple replies on May 10, 2019:

Thank you. Yes Birds Nest and Harts Tongue do look very much the same, but are in fact two different species. ( Asplenium nidus and Asplenium scolopendrium, I think). We could not grow Birds Nest here it is too cold, a pity because they are both lovely. Hope you project goes well. (Post)

When is it okay to say "I love you"?

Fernapple comments on May 8, 2019:

My wife and I courted for ten years on and off before we married, less than four months after that she died. Life is short it is better to fill it with a lot of mistakes made in haste, than play safe and make none but the mistake of emptiness.

Fernapple replies on May 10, 2019:

@Mike1947 Yes, P. died of a brain tumour which was undiscovered until one day she seemed to have a stroke. I was haunted by the horror of her death bed, (it was truly nasty and lasted a week) for many years in the early hours when not sleeping. It did go in time, and now only the happy things we did seem to surface, but I found that the best way to push the bad dreams away, was to keep very busy and do lots of things for other people until time and new things overwelmed them. It not new but it worked for me.

A peaceful religion?

Matias comments on May 8, 2019:

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts. They read them directly and literally, ignoring the important fact about a text from another age, be this text "sacred" like the Bible, or "secular" or mythical (like Homer's works) , namely that its ...

Fernapple replies on May 10, 2019:

@Quarm Plus you have to remember that the Bible / Torah are not truly books, but collections of writen pieces brought together from many different sources. Some of which perhaps were originally high litrature no doubt, (very few) but most of were more than the tabloid/red tops of the day. Many people with little understanding, make the mistake of thinking that because they are sometimes writen in very good Hebrew/ Greek that proves their high value. But of course we know that the books of the Bible passed through the hands of many scribes in their recopying and editing, and therefore it follows that it is likely that at least one of those scribes would have been very good, that does not reflect on the original. Reading such texts allegoricaly or "interpreting" them is no better than grabing a handful of magazines off a news stand, including such things a Celebrity Gossip and UFO Weekly, and "interpreting" those.

When is it okay to say "I love you"?

Fernapple comments on May 8, 2019:

My wife and I courted for ten years on and off before we married, less than four months after that she died. Life is short it is better to fill it with a lot of mistakes made in haste, than play safe and make none but the mistake of emptiness.

Fernapple replies on May 9, 2019:

@Mike1947 We both got distracted, me by work and she by another man who in the end ran off and left her after only a couple of years. Yet the last couple of years we had together and the short while we were married, were blissfully happy yes. So no regrets.

A peaceful religion?

Matias comments on May 8, 2019:

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts. They read them directly and literally, ignoring the important fact about a text from another age, be this text "sacred" like the Bible, or "secular" or mythical (like Homer's works) , namely that its ...

Fernapple replies on May 9, 2019:

Then why promote them to uninformed John Does ?

Here is something to have you thinking as to how puny we are . . . Or are we? [curiosity.com]

Fernapple comments on May 9, 2019:

Many of those loops are far bigger than the earth.

Fernapple replies on May 9, 2019:

@FrayedBear I have heard it said that an AU may not be enough, and that it is possible that some of the mass extictions could have been caused by bursts of solar radiation, since on one knows the untimate magnitude of a solar flare.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Krish55 comments on May 4, 2019:

Liberal religious scholars have a right to their own non-literal interpretations of religious texts. But they do not have an unchallenged right to lie. These stories were always intended to be believed literally by the vast majority of religious teachers throughout history. When liberal scholars ...

Fernapple replies on May 8, 2019:

@skado Yes but whether it is a good thing or not, religion, due to the conflict between the age of reason and literal belief, is fading fast, at least in the west. At the end of the day what good can a few die hard mythologists do to create community, while sitting in the corner of a vast empty room sentimentally telling stories to no one but themselves. And to some degree they will have only themselves to blame. In the age of universal education the failure to educate that no longer great uneducated mass of people, into a higher allegoric understanding, lies entirely at their door. Whether it is fuelled by laziness, class prejudice or the corrupt wish to obtain power and wealth by deluding the more vulnerable members of society, it still leads inexorably to decline.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Krish55 comments on May 4, 2019:

Liberal religious scholars have a right to their own non-literal interpretations of religious texts. But they do not have an unchallenged right to lie. These stories were always intended to be believed literally by the vast majority of religious teachers throughout history. When liberal scholars ...

Fernapple replies on May 8, 2019:

@skado I think that that is a good and useful summation. Though the reservation that I am left with, is the thought that. If, "they are building the skill of taming their “demons” (psychological conflicts) and training their “spirits” (attitudes) how to embrace the unnatural task of maintaining goodwill toward large groups of strangers (which is necessary for life in a civilized society)." Then does it not seem sad that a lot of religious teaching is concerned with the business of opposing open mindedness, and maintaining closed minds. Which is exactly the opposite of what is wanted, I would have thought.

We all like to think that we have an open mind, but I would like to place a question, which is.

LiterateHiker comments on May 7, 2019:

**10 Tips on How to be More Open-Minded** https://www.technobezz.com/10-tips-open-minded/

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

A good read thank you.

We all like to think that we have an open mind, but I would like to place a question, which is.

Bobsuruncle comments on May 7, 2019:

My opinion? When something is said that is totally nonsensical, and that is repeated by many, and several others, with no basis on fact, you're probably not a free thinker. Just because you say you are does not mean you are. I guess people that aren't in the sheep mentality? Like people pushing ...

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

That is true but some countries Switzerland and Denmark seem to manage moderately socialist social systems quite well. I think that Socialism says, “place more faith and more of your life in the hands of the state”. The only trouble with that is that, in many nations such as Venezuela placing faith in the state means placing your faith in an institution far more cruel, ruthless and exploitive than the worst of capitalist corporations, if you place more in the hands of the state, then the state needs to be more accountable. Socialism only works well in states which are well educated and highly democratic, where people have real control over the state in which they invest their hopes and wealth. Which is why socialism works well in countries like Switzerland and Denmark. There is I think a direct relationship the greater the democracy the more socialism you can enjoy. but the democracy has to be maintained. Especially since there is another form of economics, in which the political and economic establishments are one and the same, and it is called feudalism, into which socialism automatic degenerates in counties which have weak democracies, such as the old Soviet Union. Which is why socialism works badly in countries like Venezuela. Maybe here in the UK where we have limited democracy we should limit how much we invest in the state. You can decide for the US.

We all like to think that we have an open mind, but I would like to place a question, which is.

thinktwice comments on May 7, 2019:

Not seeking to be "right"...just factually correct; admitting that you might only have the correct answer now but it could change if given new information... Just having an open mind is not enough...you have to be able to determine if what you are researching or trying to figure out is actually ...

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

@thinktwice Thank you I always try to make a post/comment which contributes something if I can.

We all like to think that we have an open mind, but I would like to place a question, which is.

seattlepanda comments on May 7, 2019:

Virtually all of my opinions are qualified as I never believe I have all the facts. As I get more facts, my opinion becomes less qualified, but rarely approaching zero(hmm...reminds me of the calculus ;)

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

Yes that's where I go, but the more facts I find the more I find I don't know. The only thing that seems to last is the old joke. " The more you know the more you doubt, but the world is always run by people who have no doubts."

We all like to think that we have an open mind, but I would like to place a question, which is.

thinktwice comments on May 7, 2019:

Not seeking to be "right"...just factually correct; admitting that you might only have the correct answer now but it could change if given new information... Just having an open mind is not enough...you have to be able to determine if what you are researching or trying to figure out is actually ...

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

That's a good sum of the issues, thank you. So should I just ignore those people who tell me that I am too obsessed with facts ? P.S. My apparent request in the post for an objective test, was just a way to solicit just such thoughts. I know I am not going to get one, but you never know there could be someone out there...

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Krish55 comments on May 4, 2019:

Liberal religious scholars have a right to their own non-literal interpretations of religious texts. But they do not have an unchallenged right to lie. These stories were always intended to be believed literally by the vast majority of religious teachers throughout history. When liberal scholars ...

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

@skado It has to be admitted, that in a world in which everyone who went to church/synagoge/mosque/temple only did so for community and the enjoyment of practicing mythology ritually, then there would little harm in religion, but while the churches also contain many who will be deluded into literal belief there is always still potential for harm. So that I have to ask, firstly can we ever reach a state where all who go to church go there only for community or will it always be a mixture, and secondly do we have to admit that no other way of creating community will ever exist ?

People Who Always Point Out Grammar Mistakes Are Pretty Much Jerks, Study Finds

Fernapple comments on May 7, 2019:

If you put style before meaning, then you never get to understanding.

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

@thinktwice No they don't, but I do know that some people never get past the first stage.

"Individualism, with its belief in the absolute value and autonomy of the person, is therefore the ...

Allamanda comments on May 7, 2019:

the 'abandoned it's mystical overtones' part is the rub - what he calls the Soul Narrative and we might also call the spiritual impulse, etc. could equally well (and for many ages was) be used to justify our care of the earth, our belonging to it, and not it to us for exploitation.

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

That's true, you could almost substitute, narcissism or self absorption and it reads much the same.

Don't you just love it when you spend time carefully composing a comment to go with someones post, ...

brentan comments on May 7, 2019:

The bastards! I only do it to completely unintelligible posts. I use it like 'whatever'.

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

Thats a good idea,I think I will start. If "Whatever" is taken perhaps "So what" will do.

How Can We Create Inclusive Community?

Pedrohbds comments on May 7, 2019:

Common rituals, that is the key. But is difficult to accept common rituals when there is no authority imposing them. Any community needs a period when people put aside their individuality and show they can do something together. On this atheists communities you talk about they found in the ...

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

And strings of atheist charity shops selling coffee. (I wish.)

It's been a long time since I had some holy rollers come to my house .

Fernapple comments on May 6, 2019:

There may be less of them about, because the churches who did send them out, are running scared from the legal and insurance problems that could occur if they are hurt in any way. The JW have certainly stopped door to door in the UK for that reason. Perhaps they are not sure that their god will ...

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

@Spidey At 84 you should be allowed to get away with anything. Can't wait.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Krish55 comments on May 4, 2019:

Liberal religious scholars have a right to their own non-literal interpretations of religious texts. But they do not have an unchallenged right to lie. These stories were always intended to be believed literally by the vast majority of religious teachers throughout history. When liberal scholars ...

Fernapple replies on May 7, 2019:

@skado Yes having read your posts for some time I feel sure that is true, and I have no problem with the study of mythology in the library. (I have done it, and of course you can study more and more quickly there.) My problem is with those people who attend chuches etc. supporting those institutions and helping to normalize faith, all of which can be damaging to more vunerable people and society as a whole, while confessing no belief, in other words merely to indulge their selfish interest in childish ritual. My conscience at least could not live with that. ( Yes of course we all go for weddings and funerals because of community, but other than that, you can get community from working in a charity shop and make a real worthwhile difference.)

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Fernapple comments on May 4, 2019:

Since the only people able to impart meaning truly to a text are the people who wrote it, and for the most part you can be fairly certain that they meant it literally. After that it is only the cherry picking and interpretation of the reader, who is usually then trying to claim that it therefore has...

Fernapple replies on May 6, 2019:

@Allamanda No you certainly can not asume literalism either, we live in a world of probabilities.

"If neo-Darwinism is true and reproductive success a measure of evolutionary fitness, then every ...

Fernapple comments on May 6, 2019:

"Even if religion X or ideology Y is very successful, that does not imply that I should embrace it and subscribe to its tenets." Quite; or give any credit to its beliefs. And if J Sacks is really gullible enough to believe in the literal idea of decent from Abraham, how much credit should be given ...

Fernapple replies on May 6, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 Yes, but there are several forms of intelligence and they do not all exclude extreme gulibility. The two or three quotes I have seen from him on this site would certainly lead to that view. But then they all came from Matias.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Fernapple comments on May 4, 2019:

Since the only people able to impart meaning truly to a text are the people who wrote it, and for the most part you can be fairly certain that they meant it literally. After that it is only the cherry picking and interpretation of the reader, who is usually then trying to claim that it therefore has...

Fernapple replies on May 6, 2019:

@Allamanda All of that is true yes. But it does not mean that at some stage every text may not have passed through the hands of literal writers, or that someone today can assume allegory based on no evidence.

It's been a long time since I had some holy rollers come to my house .

Fernapple comments on May 6, 2019:

There may be less of them about, because the churches who did send them out, are running scared from the legal and insurance problems that could occur if they are hurt in any way. The JW have certainly stopped door to door in the UK for that reason. Perhaps they are not sure that their god will ...

Fernapple replies on May 6, 2019:

@Surfpirate It is a worry, hopefully they still keep up the tradition of going round in pairs.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Fernapple comments on May 4, 2019:

Since the only people able to impart meaning truly to a text are the people who wrote it, and for the most part you can be fairly certain that they meant it literally. After that it is only the cherry picking and interpretation of the reader, who is usually then trying to claim that it therefore has...

Fernapple replies on May 6, 2019:

@Allamanda Yes but most have been rewritten many times, and it is unlikely that at least several of those rewrittings did not occur at times when religious powers enforced litteral understanding with violence, even if the very earliest penning was allegorical. Although even that is to be doubted since many of them were simply written versions of spoken stories which came down from truly credulus ages. And remember that until the beginings of secular philosophy there were no other world views available other than the religious, so that even those writtting allegoy must have known that it would be taken by many as litteral. Having said which, it is in any case the job of those who wish to suppose allegorical origins to prove that, if they do not wish to claim that their allegorical interpretation is not just their own invention, the burden of proof in that case is with them. I do not mind any games being played with texts, or historical study, it is only when people claim that their views are "religion" and therefore have the extra authority coming from either the supernatural or are hallowed tradition, if such a thing is possible, and are thereby better than secular ideals. Especially when they do that within religious communities, where their support for those view points helps to nomalize supernatural belief, and and lends weight to the authority of churches etc. especially in the minds of more vunerable people and with all the evils that go with that. It is the immature failing to face up to the concequences of what their support does in the wider religious community, that I find so deplorable in the moderates and the none believing religious, and which almost make me prefer the fundamentaists however extreme.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Krish55 comments on May 4, 2019:

Liberal religious scholars have a right to their own non-literal interpretations of religious texts. But they do not have an unchallenged right to lie. These stories were always intended to be believed literally by the vast majority of religious teachers throughout history. When liberal scholars ...

Fernapple replies on May 6, 2019:

Yes but I can not see that your two comments which seem to form an argument really address the same issue at all. The study of myth in order to understand human nature and parts of the human condition which are common across all cultures and history is one thing. Using those myths, which I think is what you mean, to supposedly give extra authority to interpretations of the human condition made by the interpreter is quite another.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Krish55 comments on May 4, 2019:

Liberal religious scholars have a right to their own non-literal interpretations of religious texts. But they do not have an unchallenged right to lie. These stories were always intended to be believed literally by the vast majority of religious teachers throughout history. When liberal scholars ...

Fernapple replies on May 6, 2019:

@skado Yes but I can not see that your two comments which seem to form an argument really address the same issue at all. The study of myth in order to understand human nature and parts of the human condition which are common across all cultures and history is one thing. Using those myths to supposedly give extra authority to interpretations of the human condition made by the interpreter is quite another.

Sam Harris’s argument is that the real villains are the religious moderates.

Fernapple comments on May 5, 2019:

I am not fond of the moderates, though I would never call on any point of view to be suppressed if that is truly what S. H. claims. The moderates however are not without responsibility for the doings of even the most extreme fundamentalists, since by normalizing religion and the idea that faith ...

Fernapple replies on May 5, 2019:

@citronella Yes perhaps that is wrong, it should be that the fundamentalists are more "simply" sincere.

Against cheerfulness: Practising the Greek virtues of wisdom and courage is one thing.

Fernapple comments on May 5, 2019:

Your founding fathers once wrote. "The pursuit of happiness. " It always seems from this side of the pond, that that was wise, but that sadly it turned into a poison chalice. Because it is so often misread as the right and obligation of happiness. Not pursuit as something to chase, but as something ...

Fernapple replies on May 5, 2019:

@KKGator The one crumb of comfort I can give is to say that you certainly have not cornered the market in stupid. We have got plenty if you ever need some more.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

skado comments on May 4, 2019:

Taking art and symbolism seriously has fallen out of fashion.

Fernapple replies on May 5, 2019:

@hankster Yes that is true, and certainly good art is never vague, which is probably where taste comes in.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Denker comments on May 5, 2019:

I’ve always disliked the way the bible gets interpreted, it feels to me like they should make more of an effort to write in plain language...

Fernapple replies on May 5, 2019:

I think they did write in plain language and they intended it to be taken literally, but it suffered many rewritings some good some bad, and then has interpretations forced on it from above.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

skado comments on May 4, 2019:

Taking art and symbolism seriously has fallen out of fashion.

Fernapple replies on May 5, 2019:

@hankster Not at all, it means that you may put your own interpretation on anything, and may find texts which suit that use, but if you really want to find truth and widen your view, then you must attend to an authors own intentions. Because they are what someone else has to say, and the best authors who really have something worthwhile to say, will try their best to make it understandable to as many as possible, that is the nature of having something worthwhile to say.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

skado comments on May 4, 2019:

Taking art and symbolism seriously has fallen out of fashion.

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

@hankster Any truth or even falsehood there is nothing which can not be expresssed plainly using words, since they are abstractions, and if you have to you can always invent new words. Remember being vague to pose a profound is the oldest cheap circus trick in the book.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

skado comments on May 4, 2019:

Taking art and symbolism seriously has fallen out of fashion.

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

@skado, @hankster Yes but there are many books that give truth , beauty, pain etc. without being vague, and I do not dimiss any text merely because it is vague, (Shakespeare is vague and wonderful,) I only say that it is not good to give a text privileged status because it is vague and therefore enables flexible interpretation which can be used for dishonest intent. (See my answer to William Fleming above.) And if you take life seriously then you do not play dishonest games with the truth, while since words are themselves abstractions I have never encountered an idea which could not be expressed plainly using them if the author has enough talent and care.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

skado comments on May 4, 2019:

Taking art and symbolism seriously has fallen out of fashion.

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

@skado Yes but there are many books that give truth , beauty, pain etc. without being vague, and I do not dimiss any text merely because it is vague, (Shakespeare is vague and wonderful,) I only say that it is not good to give a text privileged status because it is vague and therefore enables flexible interpretation which can be used for dishonest intent. (See my answer to William Fleming above.) And if you take life seriously then you do not play dishonest games with the truth, while since words are themselves abstractions I have never encountered an idea which could not be expressed plainly using them if the author has enough talent and care.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

Fernapple comments on May 4, 2019:

Since the only people able to impart meaning truly to a text are the people who wrote it, and for the most part you can be fairly certain that they meant it literally. After that it is only the cherry picking and interpretation of the reader, who is usually then trying to claim that it therefore has...

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

@Gmak Yes but with old religious texts you can be reasonably sure, if only because in those days not taking it literally would have been fatal.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

WilliamFleming comments on May 4, 2019:

I agree. Anything written down has to be interpreted, and the ideas you read are only meaningful if they resonate with you on a deep level. Some concepts are difficult to express in a direct, literal way, thus we have metaphors, allegories, parables and analogies, not only in religion but in ...

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

You can do that, learn a lot and have a great deal of fun doing so. But unfortunately I do not think that is the way most religious people view it, or that this post is intended, because I do not think that it is enough to defend the use of a certain limited number of texts as special. You can for example learn a lot reading Shakespeare that way but there is no justification in the view that the King James written a short while after deserves more respect. (And I don't think it is as good.)

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

skado comments on May 4, 2019:

Taking art and symbolism seriously has fallen out of fashion.

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

Because taking art and symbolsim seriously means, taking a personal interpretation of the art or symbolism and trying to claim that it therefore has more authority than secular ideas. Since although interpretation is really only the thoughts of the individual, it is sanctified by art/religion which are supposed to have priviledged access to truth. Although both are actually vague ways of expressing things and therefore unlikely to be accurate.

Religious fundamentalists and many of today’s atheists share the same approach to texts.

gearl comments on May 4, 2019:

When meanings are not self-evident, meanings can be interpreted to mean whatever the reader wants them to mean.

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

Yes, but while still claiming that the words are writen/inspired by god, and that therefore although they interpreted by them, they still have more authority than the ideas of secular people. A great case of having your cake and eating it.

People always ask why my ex and I broke up and I always say that it’s because I stopped believing ...

Hathacat comments on May 4, 2019:

“I preferred to believe in Whinny the Poo, he’s nicer.” I have actually told people that I cannot belong to a organization whose people have less morals than me.

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

Love that answer. That is also a good answer to the apologists who say that they only believe in it as allegory. If you want a book to use for allegory why not pick a better book. Whinie the Pooh is far better, look at Eeyore who accepts the worst but does not loose his kindness or humanity because of that. The ultimate moral philosopher.

People always ask why my ex and I broke up and I always say that it’s because I stopped believing ...

chazwin comments on May 3, 2019:

You are quite correct. The world would be a better place if the default position was critical skepticism rather than having the licence to believe in whatever shit takes your fancy.

Fernapple replies on May 4, 2019:

Very true, though I would say that the default position is critical skepticism, its just that a lot of people don't know it.

The problem with revenge is that it never evens the score.

brentan comments on May 1, 2019:

This is the idea behind the Orestes in ancient Greece. The myth was that the corpse emitted a miasma that could only be removed by justice, understood as revenge. The Furies symbolised that revenge. The court system was set up to end the constant tit-for-tat revenges. At the end of the story, the ...

Fernapple replies on May 1, 2019:

That takes me back, I learned the story when very young, and that part of the meaning never entered my head then. Thanks.

Why would any modern woman want to follow that religion.

Jolanta comments on May 1, 2019:

And he will be the first to go to that new strip club that has opened in his town. By the way who the hell is Titus?

Fernapple replies on May 1, 2019:

Titus comes after Timothy two.

Given that life in itself is meaningless, what do we have in mind when we talk about the "meaning ...

Fernapple comments on May 1, 2019:

Life does not need meaning to have value, if you understand that life itself has value then that understanding is all the meaning it needs. Since life is all you have it matters not if it has meaning or not, since there is nothing more, and that applies even to the theist, since even if there is...

Fernapple replies on May 1, 2019:

@Matias The value of gold is trade value, which is only one sort of value, not to be confused with any other. If I sit on a desert island all alone and think that a tuft of grass that grows in the sand is beautiful then I give that grass value, the value of appreciation and of being appreciated, and that comes from within and gives value and meaning both to the grass and to my life. PS If I may quote your last post, you wrote. "No, nature is not intrinsically beautiful, because nothing is. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder."

Ha, Facebook is moving toward "groups". Stop copying us Zuckerberg! ;) [cnn.com]

Cutiebeauty comments on Apr 30, 2019:

I don't use facebook at all... I only use agnostic... 😊

Fernapple replies on May 1, 2019:

Good for you.

Given that life in itself is meaningless, what do we have in mind when we talk about the "meaning ...

WilliamFleming comments on Apr 30, 2019:

The chemical process that we call life has no value IMO. Blind, robotic mechanistic events with no awareness and no free will certainly can’t be valuable, and sure enough, we see that organic bodies live only for awhile and then they die. Sometimes they die en masse. And while they are alive they ...

Fernapple replies on May 1, 2019:

Hi William, you may not remember because it is unimportant but I have in the past disagreed with some of your comments, but I think that this one is great.

What is with this Atheist/Agnostic divide stuff lately.

David1955 comments on Apr 30, 2019:

You know, I agree with you, and up until I joined a couple of years ago I thought agnostics and atheists were comrades together in the same struggle. Then, I joined this community. Quickly I got told by agnostics that theirs was the "more nuanced position"; that atheists were no different from ...

Fernapple replies on Apr 30, 2019:

@David1955 Yes I think it is in at least two of the books, probably The God Delusion for one, he admits to not being able to prove the none existence of god.

What is with this Atheist/Agnostic divide stuff lately.

David1955 comments on Apr 30, 2019:

You know, I agree with you, and up until I joined a couple of years ago I thought agnostics and atheists were comrades together in the same struggle. Then, I joined this community. Quickly I got told by agnostics that theirs was the "more nuanced position"; that atheists were no different from ...

Fernapple replies on Apr 30, 2019:

Though Dawkins has admited to being technically an Agnostic, so they are puttting up a straw-man if they say that.

"Atheism deserves better than the new atheists whose methodology consists of criticizing religion ...

IamNobody comments on Apr 28, 2019:

And yet, that's where we are headed.... All religions will die in the long haul.

Fernapple replies on Apr 29, 2019:

@skado Yes that is it. But the "shift in global world view" does not have to include the supernatural, which is I think what most people who call themselves sceptics including those here reject. Having said that I do not think that you can ever replace the supernatural altogether, but, to use the rape analogy again, it can be made uncommon and pushed to the outer limits of society. Having said which, even that may of course be pie in the sky, since with a global environmental catastophy on the way, the exhaustion of many resources in the next few years and a huge population making a global pandemic almost certain given enough time, we will probably enter a new dark age first. Who knows.

"Atheism deserves better than the new atheists whose methodology consists of criticizing religion ...

IamNobody comments on Apr 28, 2019:

And yet, that's where we are headed.... All religions will die in the long haul.

Fernapple replies on Apr 29, 2019:

@skado Yes but having the biological scafolding for religion does not mean that you have to be religious in the theistic way, religion may fill biological needs but that does not mean that many other things such as philosophy can not fill that same place. You could say that we have the biological framework for rape, (an interest in sex and violence and the genitalia needed ) but that does not mean that we have to be rapists or that we should stop planning for a day, when society is well enough for rape to be ancient history.

"Atheism deserves better than the new atheists whose methodology consists of criticizing religion ...

Fernapple comments on Apr 28, 2019:

This is the usual apologetics line very carefully dressed to look moderate. But just try inserting the word "fascism" into the text where "religion" appears, and then see how it reads. As to bad atheism. Atheism is growing, and when something grows it is bound to be more diverse and embrace more ...

Fernapple replies on Apr 29, 2019:

@Matias I do not equate religion with fascism, I merely suggested a thought experiment with the text. If that is a little difficult I am sorry.