Consciousness may be the brain's way of dealing w/ entropy. [ibtimes.com]

Fernapple comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Please enlarge.

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2018:

@ElementX74 Explain in more detail.

Validity of a theory

Fernapple comments on Oct 13, 2018:

Science is basically the philosophy of humility, admit that we are not certain and can always improve, especially if we work at it. Religion is the philosophy of arrogance, we are gifted with absolute truth because we are special and chosen.

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2018:

@Omen6Actual Yes I agree science is much more than a philosophy and in many ways it supersedes philosophy, in the same way as it does religion, though not as completely, i was only using the word philosophy in the most general way, meaning all systems of thought, as at the core of the scientific method there is a basic idea.

Is the solution to "hate speech" more speech or less speech?

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2018:

The solution is to grow up

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2018:

@IamNobody Yes that was my point too, yet for some it never seems to come. When we were babies we were at the centre of our parents world and our needs the only thing that mattered, and that was how we saw the world. One of the main points about growing up, is to understand emotionally as well as rationally, that we are not the centre of the universe after all and that our needs are not the most important things the rest of the planet has to deal with. It is too easy to fall into the trap laid by churches, politicians, commercial sales and the media who will all tell us that we can remain the most important thing at the centre of the universe, if we go along with them. (They call him 'God the Father' after all). Perhaps the worlds biggest industry is the business of keeping people infantile so that they can be used like child slaves. This is why people get angry when their irrational beliefs are challenged, it is because you are asking them to grow up and accept that they are not the centre of everything.

“The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but ...

rcandlish comments on Oct 13, 2018:

Surely there was more Press integrity in his day?

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

Maybe not, there were few alternatives in the media of those days, and therefore they could get away with more without reply.

Is the solution to "hate speech" more speech or less speech?

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2018:

The solution is to grow up

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

@IamNobody Agreed. But it is a hard task you have set yourself: best of luck.

Is the solution to "hate speech" more speech or less speech?

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2018:

The solution is to grow up

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

The trouble is that it is hard to tell someone else to grow up, as if they have not grown up they can not posibly understand what you mean.

Political correctness was not even the original term it was called Alternate insert target here.

AnneWimsey comments on Oct 13, 2018:

Simple politeness, being courteous, not judging a book by it's cover, anyone?

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

I agree if you do not call it just 'truth' then you most likely have a hidden agenda.

Just wondering, about past experiences.

AndiPandi comments on Oct 12, 2018:

I have had the same problem, but never went to meet anyone. Just deleted my profile. My profile specifically stated no Christians. Made me jokingly think to myself that they were illiterate.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

The worst ones nearly all use the King James and read no other book, you should write. "Therefore show thowself not to be likend unto a Christian before my face." They should understand better.

You Know God Exists (Nudge-Nudge, Wink-Wink) Within the scope of people who claim that God ...

reversehalo comments on Oct 11, 2018:

You can’t use logic to dissuade someone who didn’t use logic to reach their viewpoint in the first place. “Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to this level and beat you with experience” -Mark Twain

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

I love that quote why not post it on the Quotes Group page.

Why are humans so slow to learn?

AtheistReader comments on Oct 11, 2018:

Really? I disagree. "Justice" and "political health" may be topics of discussion today, but I cannot say I agree with Plato. Why do you believe that HIS teachings are particularly relevant today? He may have had a good foundation, but he is not exactly relevant today. You tell me.

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

I agree there is nearly as much rubbish in Plato as in the bible. If you must pick a classic why not Aristotle.

One of the questions on this site when I signed up was if I believe in God or gods, and then it ...

PalacinkyPDX comments on Oct 11, 2018:

As if that remaining 1% of believing in a gawd means ANYTHING. Either you believe in gawd(s) or you don't. If you haven't seen any genuine proof of such a being and still insist on that remaining 1% of possible belief, then you're just being lazy and waffling, not open minded.

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

@PalacinkyPDX Sorry I don't agree, with regard to God that 1% may be as unimportant as it is, but it is vital to recognize that we can never be 100% about ANYTHING. Otherwise all we have is dogma which is the greatest failing of religion, and if we have that, we can never have the benefits or joys of improving or moving on in any area. Nor can we truly understand why we should respect science, which differes vitally from every other philosophy by valuing that 1% more than gold; as in. "My greatest joy was to disprove at least one fondly held idea before breakfast."

One of the questions on this site when I signed up was if I believe in God or gods, and then it ...

David1955 comments on Oct 11, 2018:

The only advantage of the 1% option is, should you face a God in the afterlife you can claim that you were only 99% an atheist, so God might make a discount and only condemn you to 99% of eternal suffering. Every little bit helps, right? :-) 100% er here

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

Unless god likes 100% atheists, which would seem to be its most likely position, if it is that kind of god.

Is anyone else grateful that the fashion for the word 'Bright' seems to be fading.

Amisja comments on Oct 11, 2018:

What does it mean? (Sorry English person here..bright means an especially clever child usually)

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

Some people tried to promote it as an alternative to sceptic.

Unpopular Opinions I know you got 'em, what are they?

Nichole765 comments on Oct 5, 2018:

I've grown to really dislike Xmas. It starts in October. The nonstop pressure to shop, the crowds, the family obligations, even the decorations. All of it. Just blah.

Fernapple replies on Oct 11, 2018:

We should all get together and refuse to trade with shops who start their christmas push before December.

Unpopular Opinions I know you got 'em, what are they?

QuidamOutrepont comments on Oct 5, 2018:

I hate weddings! It's really not my conception of love and relationship. I find the rituals and traditions arround them annoying and tasteless. If you want to put on a costume, to put on a show in front of an audiance and to get some applauds, become an actor!

Fernapple replies on Oct 11, 2018:

Long ago I heard a stat. that generally speaking, the more people spend on a wedding the shorter time the marriage will last. About says it all.

Why do otherwise rational people believe in GOD?

p-nullifidian comments on Oct 8, 2018:

At the heart of the debate lies—it seems to me—the fundamental belief, or lack thereof, in the dichotomy of what Stephen Jay Gould referred to as non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA). In such a worldview, science has its domain, while religion has its own separate space—the two don’t overlap. ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2018:

@ldheinz Yes I quite agree, they do not make compartments, the irrational is allowed to invade every other part of their thinking, and then to attack the thinking of others, the NOM can never work because one side, the religious do not even see any boundaries.

A common man marvels at uncommon things.

IamNobody comments on Oct 8, 2018:

I guess one can be both at certain times...

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2018:

Very true, we are all a bit of both I think.

There are two things to aim at in life: First, to get what you want; and after that to enjoy it.

Fernapple comments on Oct 8, 2018:

Perhaps there is only one thing to aim for in life, and that is to want and enjoy what you get.

Fernapple replies on Oct 8, 2018:

@Marionville Agreed. I will post a quote on a like theme as well it is a bit of a well known old quote but worth repeating.

There are two things to aim at in life: First, to get what you want; and after that to enjoy it.

Fernapple comments on Oct 8, 2018:

Perhaps there is only one thing to aim for in life, and that is to want and enjoy what you get.

Fernapple replies on Oct 8, 2018:

@Marionville , that is true, the real trick is to cultivate your powers of appreciation if you can, learning to understand and enjoy more; that is a limitless horizon able to last a lifetime, and it provides a defence against the narrow path some people follow in search of endless novelty, leading as it does to trivia, frustration, contrariness and eventually cynicism; because the most important and core things are often the most ordinary. Nor does appreciation stifle ambition, because some of the things which you most learn to appreciate are the fruits of ambition. It is in that way I think much better than the modern idea of 'mindfulness' which is a much more limited and passive form of appreciation, useful but limited.

I just left Christianity, and they talk a lot about this "darkness" that Jesus delivered them from.

Fernapple comments on Oct 7, 2018:

Sadly, I think it is us.

Fernapple replies on Oct 8, 2018:

@BongoCat Just keep living a good life to prove them wrong.

Even now with autumn coming on there is still plenty of colour in the garden.

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Blooms? Here too! ... of course, it is still 90 degree weather here. I am not kidding. A bit warmer than most October's here.

Fernapple replies on Oct 6, 2018:

Baton Rouge, place I always wanted to go, as I can only take holidays in the winter its nice to know you get good late weather. thanks. Have a good winter.

Even now with autumn coming on there is still plenty of colour in the garden.

HeathenFarmer comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Very nice, we just skipped Autumn and went straight to Winter so the garden is now a blaze of white.

Fernapple replies on Oct 5, 2018:

Lot milder here in the UK, but no winter sports.

Even now with autumn coming on there is still plenty of colour in the garden.

SkagwayKim comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Stunning colors!

Fernapple replies on Oct 5, 2018:

Thank you.

Question.

p-nullifidian comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Consider what Christianity might become, were it to morph into the faith of retired Bishop John Shelby Spong, who espouses the following 12 Points of Reform in his book, A New Christianity for a New World: 1. Theism, as a way of defining God, is dead. So most theological God-talk is today ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 5, 2018:

@brentan And if you take all that away from Christianity, nothing but the outline of a shaddow on the wall remains.

Do atheists, who find no magic in the world, live drab, boring lives, by comparison?

benhmiller comments on Sep 30, 2018:

there is plenty to be amazed at in the world with out shit up out thin air or someones ass. One amazing thing is how does a wild flower happen to grow in the crack of civilation? I know a seed fell into the crack got covered enough with dust got enough waster grow but life goes on my majicl being in...

Fernapple replies on Oct 4, 2018:

I love the line. "how does a wild flower happen to grow in the crack of civilation." That's worth posting as a quote.

Do atheists, who find no magic in the world, live drab, boring lives, by comparison?

Heraclitus comments on Oct 1, 2018:

Actually, I find proper prim theists to be boring people. You certainly don't have to believe in a God-is-going-to-get-you cynical delusion to be an interesting person.

Fernapple replies on Oct 3, 2018:

Theisim is a shallow thing about my needs, my god, my salvation etc. and therefore it tends to atract shallow people.

Unpopular Opinions I know you got 'em, what are they?

FatherOfNyx comments on Oct 3, 2018:

I don't like Neil deGrasse Tyson. He never really stood out to me, but when I gathered that he likely believes in a multiverse and pushes it as a fact.. I grew a distaste for him. Maybe push is too strong of a word, but at least implies that it is true when he is "educating" people. As someone who ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 3, 2018:

I have no opinion on NDGT but, while being no expert, I do agree that a lot of cosmology and higher physics now seems based on pure speculation and belief supported by little experimental evidence, some of which is contradictory, and it is in real danger of beginning to act like a religion more than science. Cosmology is protected from an lot of the attacks that religious fundamentalists mount on biology, by the fact that it is seen as complex and difficult to understand, yet maybe the attacks are actually good for biology, because the need to answer them helps to keep it grounded.

There is no duty we so much underrate as the duty of being happy.....Robert Louis Stevenson

Diogenes comments on Oct 2, 2018:

There are mentally impoverished people who are permanently "happy" because they don't have the ability to understand the situation. This by no means, means that a person should 'love depression'- that also would be some weird mental disorder.

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

@Diogenes From what I know of R. L. Stevenson having read him a lot in youth, and knowing him to be a great alturist I think that his meaning of 'duty' may well not be a duty to yourself but a duty to others, and therefore the right amount of happiness is that which pleases those arround you most. I know this is not what the main discourse is about, but I will throw it in for interests sake. Perhaps Marionville would like to give us more of the context of the quote please?

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

CeliaVL comments on Sep 30, 2018:

Serious academic biblical scholars don't claim that the Bible is 'true'. They recognise that it is a collection of folk-tales, legends, poetry and bits of history mixed together to form the foundation story first for Judaism and then for Christianity. It is only fanatical religious believers who ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

The trouble with that is that it is so vague and open to interpretation that people can and do build anything they like on it, and then it just becomes a false claim that you have gods authority to back whatever you invent. Why not at least try to found your world view on something like science which at least tries to be truthful and can be questioned? If you build a house on sand! (Bible quote.)

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

motrubl4u comments on Sep 30, 2018:

The earth isn't 5k years old. That's the only one I need lol

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

@GDean2016 That's because US and European education systems both fail to teach the most important things, exactly such as, repect for evidence and how to test it. And why do they not do that, could it be because they are still dominated by an unatural alliance of the extremme religious right and the extremme political left neither of whom want children to ask well informed questions?

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

Barnie2years comments on Oct 1, 2018:

The Bible that is in use by the majority of Christian beliefs was pieced together from tales written by hundreds of scribes from hundreds of legends. Tales from various beliefs were incorporated into the legends passed down verbally over thousands of years, then reinterpreted over thousands more. It...

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

I like this a lot. But if I wanted to be perfect, I would add that actually there is good historical evidence for Spartacus, unless you refer only to the fictionalized version in the ballet and TV series, and though Ulysses/Odysseus is a legend you could even make a better case I think for him being real than Jesus.

So is it nature not nurture after all? | Science | The Guardian

Flyingsaucesir comments on Oct 1, 2018:

It's both. It's nature AND its nurture. There is a heck of a lot about us that is hard-wired, heredetary, instinctive. And there is also our capacity to set our own course, based on our learning; the sum of our experiences. Call it executive function. The two are inextricably entangled. It's how ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

@Piece2YourPuzzle The big division which really counts, is between holding groundless belief or not, the niceties within scepticism are tiny and unimportant compared with that. Some may think that they are on a higher rung of the ladder than others, and that may be true, but the really important thing is to have looked up and started the climb out of the cesspit of ignorance and prejudice which is blind unquestioning faith, looking at the light and not swimming nose down among the sludge where the zealots want to keep you. Therefore it is unfair to despise those who use a different ladder or can not climb quite as fast, and for that reason I always call myself a 'Broad Church Sceptic' though I use Atheist only as my main heading.

So is it nature not nurture after all? | Science | The Guardian

Flyingsaucesir comments on Oct 1, 2018:

It's both. It's nature AND its nurture. There is a heck of a lot about us that is hard-wired, heredetary, instinctive. And there is also our capacity to set our own course, based on our learning; the sum of our experiences. Call it executive function. The two are inextricably entangled. It's how ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 1, 2018:

It has always been plain that it is both to most people, in fact the reason why humans and other animals are so interesting is because of the many complex ways in which the two interact. The arguement on both sides comes from those can only want simple answers to questions because they are lazy or because they want to impose simple answers, in other words because they are tyrants at heart. The history of the last century is that of some tyranies trying to mould people to their will by mind contriol, and some tyranies trying to do it by ethnic cleansing and eugenics, and both ideas ended in death camps.

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

Kodiamus comments on Sep 30, 2018:

When I run into an evangelical Christian I normally ask at some point “what makes your religion true and all the others false?” which generally brings some silence. ???

Fernapple replies on Sep 30, 2018:

You can then finally corner them into admiting to blind faith alone, which works, or not, for all religions.

Guys ask why women are so pissed off.

Stephanie99 comments on Sep 28, 2018:

My son in law was taught by his parents to cross the street at night if he is coming up behind a woman so that he doesn't freak her out. I was discussing this with a man friend and he thought that it was my son in law letting his actions be controlled by the unwarranted fear of some woman. Would ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 28, 2018:

It does not matter if the fear is unwarranted or not, why would you want to cause any sort of fear if it is avoidable?

I care not whether a man is good or evil; all that I care is whether he is a wise man or a fool.

Fernapple comments on Sep 26, 2018:

Most people are I my experience at least good by nature. Therefore it follows that most of the aviodable harm in the world is caused by folly or laziness and not ill intent.

Fernapple replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Humanist5 That is very true, and it is why I take an interest in sites like this in the first place. Even if we can only make a tiny contribution to moving one or two people towards a better understanding of the world, and even if that is only by exposing our own folly to criticism, being very foolish myself, it is far better than standing by and doing nothing. That is why I rarely care when people find fault with me; because at least it means I have given them cause for thought,

I care not whether a man is good or evil; all that I care is whether he is a wise man or a fool.

Fernapple comments on Sep 26, 2018:

Most people are I my experience at least good by nature. Therefore it follows that most of the aviodable harm in the world is caused by folly or laziness and not ill intent.

Fernapple replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Humanist5 True, but they are few, and compared with the massive mountain of human folly created by people who really beleive they are doing the best for everone, they are almost nothing. The greatest factor in human life above all others is self delusion.

“Never trust a man who reads only one book.

Fernapple comments on Sep 22, 2018:

If they can only read one book, why do they always have to choose the worst ones? And if you were going to recommend a second book which would it be? Mine would be H. G. Wells, 'The Outline Of History', It has its faults but at least t encourages thinking, looks at the big issues without blushing ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 22, 2018:

@Leafhead Oh! At last I get it, they are trying to make us laugh. Though I am not too sure, maybe I have a poor sense of humour, or humour changes over time, it does not seem as funny as the modern ones like Mien Kampf and Mao's little Red Book, which was so funny I almost cried, and even the Koran has better jokes for a feminist text. Love your irony anyway.

Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once ...

Fernapple comments on Sep 16, 2018:

What a shame that most of Epicurus is lost, he seems like the perfect thinker for today. Does anyone know any more good quotes from him?

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2018:

@DioneAwakening Lovely, thank you.

(English) Public schools are the nurseries of all vice and immorality.

Fernapple comments on Sep 12, 2018:

I do not think that the churches and the schools in many countries including the uk are really two different things anyway. Many public schools in the past (and still) were run by churchs, and many state schools to this day are still in the church system. It is only now a few years since T. Blair ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 13, 2018:

@Marionville Yes of course much of the evils in the school system are secular and I did not mean to say otherwise, the talk simply got out of hand. My only first point was to point out that schooling in England especially was in origin clerical and that even the none church schools were and are deeply controled by the church which set their tone and direction in the past to a degree that it is hard to imagine today. Remember that for many years the only thing legaly required on school time tables was religion, many school masters were Oxbridge trained and that for centuries only clerics were allowed to teach there, and clerics have always held positions of power on school boards and in the educational sectors of government. I did not wish to take the secular content of Fielding away, mearly to point out that an even greater abuse was the way in which the church has used the schools as tools, even the secular ones, in an atempt to crush meaningful education. It was never my wish to dispute what Fielding said, merely to add an extra nuance to it, since a good idea and comment deserves to be developed and taken wider.

(English) Public schools are the nurseries of all vice and immorality.

Fernapple comments on Sep 12, 2018:

I do not think that the churches and the schools in many countries including the uk are really two different things anyway. Many public schools in the past (and still) were run by churchs, and many state schools to this day are still in the church system. It is only now a few years since T. Blair ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2018:

@Marionville Yes but the school system started in the catholic tradition back in the middle ages, it was an unbroken tradition passed down the generations, since the British reformation was a gradual transition rather than the revolution (with a few violent but limited events) it was in some countries, and it should not be underestimated just how deeply influential the church was in the schools (some of which were church schools) many of the masters had undoubtedly had theological backgrounds, and at the very least the church, the pastors and their no doubt very religious wives stood by and did nothing. While the privilege of the ruling classes very much relied on the churches indoctrination of the population and you can no more separate the church from the British political establishment and its attitudes than you can tease out its fingers from the schools. Why is it important to exonerate the church from its roles in all of this anyway?

(English) Public schools are the nurseries of all vice and immorality.

Fernapple comments on Sep 12, 2018:

I do not think that the churches and the schools in many countries including the uk are really two different things anyway. Many public schools in the past (and still) were run by churchs, and many state schools to this day are still in the church system. It is only now a few years since T. Blair ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2018:

@Marionville Yes but is not the church also one of the biggest props of and at the heart and core of the class system, and what creates vice like the church. Every public school had a pastor, and in Fieldings day many of the teachers in schools and higher education were clergy too you can not divide the two. P. S not wishing to bore people, but in case you need to know why the church makes vice. The church of course promotes vice because vice leads to guilt, which needs forgiveness, which is the churches big earner. Thus the church encouraged the lack of good behaviour and the idea of vice today get a pass from god tomorrow, even in its schools, and it ran and still runs today though the education system in the UK.

When to switch primarily identifying as an Agnostic to Atheist?

Fernapple comments on Sep 9, 2018:

I sometimes call myself a 'broard church' skeptic, because I think that the biggest split do not forget is between belief and none belief, compared with leaving groundless faith behind the other divisions are tiny, and the most important thing have left behind with that faith is dogma.

Fernapple replies on Sep 9, 2018:

@Rhetoric Yes that's it. I am sorry I was in haste this morning and perhaps did not make myself plain. De spilling an gamma pinctuation is tirrable two. Must be more careful.