God’s Intelligent Design?

Fernapple comments on Oct 26, 2018:

Number 4. "Juxtaposition of the food tube and the air tube and thus people can (and do) choke to death - " You could add that most other animals do not suffer from this feature. If he could get it right for them ?

Fernapple replies on Oct 26, 2018:

@johnprytz That's it, I think, but don't quote me, that it is because we had to lower our larinx inorder to speak in a more refined way.

Would you consider yourself difficult to get along with, deal with, or live with?

LiterateHiker comments on Oct 26, 2018:

"You need to dumb down your conversation," a man said within 10 minutes of meeting. "Men are intimidated by your intelligence and class." I was appalled. "Speak for yourself," I replied. "Obviously *you* are intimidated by my intelligence. I refuse to act stupid to mollify the insecure ego of a ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 26, 2018:

@graceylou A huge disappointment to my parents too, you choose the people you get on with you do not choose your parents, therefore you are no more likely to please them than you are any random stranger.

This one is really thought provoking, and you are free to have as much fun speculating as you wish.

phxbillcee comments on Oct 25, 2018:

Just as in the end of the Cretaceous, the die off of the dinos, I think it is a host of factors that led to the Cambrian Explosion. Very probably all of the ones mentioned here, but possibly some other factors we haven't discovered yet. We've made great strides in our understanding, & have filled in...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2018:

Exactly, that is what make it so much fun, we just keep learning more all the time and yet there is alway still more yet to wonder and speculate about. Like the Cambrian post a lot.

I certainly claim the title of “nerd” .

Renickulous comments on Oct 25, 2018:

Nerds are the best people

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2018:

They care about and are interested in things, what could be better!

A thought crossed my mind and I'd like the input/opinions of others on it.

CommonHuman comments on Oct 24, 2018:

I think they're scared. I think they genuinely believe that only the thought of a deity father figure prepared to smack you down is the only thing preventing more mass murders, cannibalism, chaos, basically rampaging Ids. They're worried one or more of us could snap at any moment and run around ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2018:

They meet with a hard sell that they have the only way to morallity every week, because that is what makes power and money for the people who control the churches. It is like someone going into your garden, picking the apples of your trees, and then ringing your doorbell to sell you some fruit.

What is the funniest gift you have received?

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2018:

Not perhaps funny ha-ha but funny kind of sad. An old lady gave me a copy of the New English Bible, because she though that an atheist/agnostic, was someone who had difficulty with the old fashioned language in the King James version.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2018:

@DaringDavid Good idea, and you could go round hotel rooms and put markers in all the bibles there.

@terrylove mentioned something he reads every day as an inspiration.

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2018:

I read something on a coffee shop wall nearly every week. But I especially like. Come, fill the cup, and in the fire of spring ,/ The winter garment of repentance fling: / The bird of time has but a little way, / To fly - and Lo! the bird is on the wing. E. Fitzgerald.

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2018:

@SukiSue Speaking as one well into the second half, enjoy, it is often the best.

Atheists - Less Vices

AtheistReader comments on Oct 24, 2018:

“The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.” ― Elizabeth Taylor

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2018:

@WarmFluffy Not everyone agrees what is vice and what is virtue, Many consider blind faith a virtue. And I find it very unwise and annoying.

Watch this one and wonder if we will get lucky. [youtube.com]

dalefvictor comments on Oct 23, 2018:

We need to know what it is fusing as it gets to iron it goes immediately.

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2018:

I see, you would think that there would be some sort of spectral evidence available for that?

"When you are not able to forgive an indiscretion against you, you give that person power over you.

SukiSue comments on Oct 23, 2018:

I may be famous and you just haven't figured it out yet! ?

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2018:

Oop's!

The Ginkgo in the garden now is just coming up to full colour, I hope this weeks winds are not going...

RussRAB comments on Oct 24, 2018:

Beautiful! Fall colors aren't as vibrant in Texas as I remember as a kid growing up in Ohio. Something I miss.

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2018:

That's good, people usually think that we can not match the US for fall colour on this side of the sea, but we do get a few odd displays worth noticing, glad you liked it.

Shipwreck found in Black Sea is 'world's oldest intact A Greek merchant ship dating back more ...

Jnei comments on Oct 23, 2018:

This got me wondering what the oldest *non-intact* shipwreck ever found is. It turns out it's a site just off the coast of Dokos in the Aegean, and dates to 2700-2200 BCE - so it's potentially twice as old as this one. Being in much shallower, oxygenated water, nothing is left of the ship nor ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2018:

You can see a part ship, called the Kyrenia ship, from the 4th century BCE in North Cyprus in the castle museum at Grirne, it does have some of the timbers and is rather lovely in that you almost feel you can touch the woodwork.Noth Cyprus is lovely for holidays but it is even interesting to look up on line.

The Ginkgo in the garden now is just coming up to full colour, I hope this weeks winds are not going...

JackPedigo comments on Oct 23, 2018:

Wow, I will think about planting that in my area.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2018:

Gets big, so make sure you have the space. Or if you are my age you just leave it for the millenials to sort out.

The silliest woman can manage a clever man; but it needs a very clever woman to manage a ...

IamNobody comments on Oct 23, 2018:

Little did I know, Rudyard Kipling knew my wife !!!!!..... Yes, she is very clever ??

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2018:

I read a stat somewhere about the happiest marriages being those where the woman has the highest IQ, so I guess you could be very lucky.

The Ginkgo in the garden now is just coming up to full colour, I hope this weeks winds are not going...

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Oct 23, 2018:

Now there is a long-lived tree. You have reminded me of the ginko I saw as an exchange student to Germany. It was in a palace courtyard in Braunschweig, reportedly a gift to Henrey the Lion-hearted from Marco Polo, brought from China. That was the story, anyway. And the tree was ancient.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2018:

Thank you that's a great story, it is long lived in another sense being a so called living fossil as well, a very early conifer which was once thought extinct. And the Marco Polo extra is a nice romance anywa,y even if it is not quite true. (I think the import was a bit later but don't quote me.)

Why Doesn't Ancient Fiction Talk About Feelings?

genessa comments on Oct 22, 2018:

the article is about reshaping the mind; the observation, which may or may not be apt (i think it is partly true and partly untrue), that ancient literature doesn't deal with feelings, is almost a side issue. g

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2018:

I agree the article is more about reshaping minds, it skips quickly over the one important fact about how ancient litrature differs from the modern when it mentions the printing press mainly only in one paragraph. And the example it picks to start is not truely fiction at all, but would have been seen as history by the standards of the day. The real difference is that before the press a large library was five books, at a cost of thousands of dollars each in todays money, and those few books had to cover at lot of bases, the bible was a popular book because it covered history, fiction, physics, natural history etc. there simply was not space for a lot of detail, or to create a lot of book types, with a few exceptions there simply was not a difference between history and fiction, which is why it is so foolish to take old books like the bible as factual.

This is really the deep past.

Heraclitus comments on Oct 22, 2018:

Shades of abiogenesis!

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2018:

Yes, there are though many different ideas about the origins of life, it would be good to do a post on all of them, I will try if I can find them.

Atheist = Depressed?

ladyprof70 comments on Oct 22, 2018:

IF there is a relationship, I would bet it's not the religious ideas, per se, but rather the sense of community often found in churches. Except for something like this site, there are really few equivalents (if any?) in the nonbelievers' world. There is plenty of evidence that for a lot of people ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2018:

Maybe it will come with time, nature fills a vacuum and as religion fades...

So good people of the universe, how do you all handle the assumption from Christians that you ...

redbai comments on Oct 22, 2018:

I ignore it unless pressed, then I tell them that I'm an atheist. It seems to disappoint them that I'm not a screaming monster as an atheist but someone they thought was a good person. The dichotomy is something that they find difficult to deal with.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2018:

I think that's the best way to insert the thin end of the wedge.

Watch this one and wonder if we will get lucky. [youtube.com]

Charlene comments on Oct 22, 2018:

Ahhh a shame alot of us won't get to see it..

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2018:

You never know.

I'm sure this question must have been asked here before.

Misanthrope comments on Oct 21, 2018:

Never really had a realization. It was more like I slowly lost my grip on it. When I was young, I wanted to believe. I became depressed before my teens, in great part due to my doubts. I wanted the peace and joy it seemed to bring to my peers and elders; the ignorant bliss of a person certain of ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2018:

That's the best and most certain way.

Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells

Diogenes comments on Oct 21, 2018:

Stupid people love to be stupid, and they will make things as bad as their non-brains will allow them.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2018:

Too true, and often they are not even aware that it is their actions that are making things bad.

Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells

rcandlish comments on Oct 21, 2018:

And has we rush towards catastrophe on a global scale, politicians of every creed in almost every country insist on dumbing down the educational standards. For example, teaching science from comic book rather than in a laboratory. Of course we have nothing to fear about global warming!

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2018:

Understanding, which is what the word education really means, is the first and most important tool we have for everything.

This is really the deep past.

Cutiebeauty comments on Oct 21, 2018:

It works... Good job, and welcome

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2018:

Thanks.

Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells

Marionville comments on Oct 21, 2018:

Even educated people believe the most illogical things and disbelieve scientific proof in favour of conspiracy theories, so don’t entirely agree with Wells.

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2018:

Yes that is very true. I think that Wells clung to a dream of universal good education resulting in an age of reason, he was a child of the nineteenth century after all. Yet it could also be taken as a warning, in the age of environmental danger, though it was political and economic concerns that were his main point.

hardblues69 anyone remember this parents telling us we could not shower if it was storming out?

genessa comments on Oct 20, 2018:

my folks never said that. now we turn off our computers when it storms -- well, i don't. i once had my computer turned off and a storm hit and fried the motherboard ANYWAY so now i think, what good will it do to turn it off? g

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2018:

@genessa Sorry mean my wifi modem.

hardblues69 anyone remember this parents telling us we could not shower if it was storming out?

genessa comments on Oct 20, 2018:

my folks never said that. now we turn off our computers when it storms -- well, i don't. i once had my computer turned off and a storm hit and fried the motherboard ANYWAY so now i think, what good will it do to turn it off? g

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2018:

Best thing is to disconect from the landline.

The Evil Amoral Atheist - BionicDance [youtube.com]

Marionville comments on Oct 20, 2018:

Excellent....! Makes perfect sense to me. Jordan Peterson is a self opinionated so called guru for young males with impressionable minds, does anyone else take him seriously ?

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2018:

I don't think that anyone here takes him seriously. But sadly.......

The instinctive need be the member of a closely knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so...

rcandlish comments on Oct 20, 2018:

Usually in cases of extreme compromise there is a sexual element present.

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2018:

It can be an element in the mix, but I certainly do not think it is the main one. If I was to make a guess, and it is only a guess, then I would say that the main motivation for grouping is to avoid personal individual responsibility, and thereby be able to remain forever childlike without ever having to face hard questions. And having given over our concience to the group, any successful challenge from without to the group would require us to be adult again, therefore the group must be defended at all cost.

The instinctive need be the member of a closely knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so...

camne comments on Oct 20, 2018:

Not everyone has such "instincts".

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2018:

I think that we all have the same basic instincts, only truly unhealthy psycopaths would do not have the common instincts, but some of us use and control them better than others. And if we do not have the social instinct, of which he is only talking about the most extreme form, then why would we ever join any social group at all.

No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are ...

rcandlish comments on Oct 20, 2018:

Society no! Individuals?????

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2018:

Yes, while the individual may suffer, so does society. Without a minimum of justice there can be no confidence and without confidence who will take risks, who will invent, who will invest, who will work hard for the greater good, who will plan wisely. And if none of that is done why not take all you have, flee to some other country and leave your homeland bankrupt.

Capitalism works on much the same principle as evolution.

FaithInOneself comments on Sep 16, 2018:

Capitalism is worshiped by Christians as they need the coffers filled every weekend. It's a business.

Fernapple replies on Oct 19, 2018:

True, churches are just companies.

A Proof That The Square Root of Two Is Irrational - DONG [youtube.com]

Fernapple comments on Oct 17, 2018:

Wonderful, the things you can find on this site.

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2018:

@phxbillcee It is the first time I have been able to follow that proof, tough I would need to see it several times more to remember it. No use to me at all but great fun.

Why are humans so slow to learn?

Suzanna comments on Oct 14, 2018:

I agree. He is building foundation of Ethics. Also my favorite Philosopher. Also his books are not long, nor surprisingly boring.

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2018:

I read him too though unlike you I do not agree with him mostly. Yet I too am glad I read him, because, yes he is FUN, it is good to read what the other side thinks, and the first thing you learn from history if you bother with it, and he is an important part of history, is the real truth of the saying. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes."

Interesting Article About Dog Intelligence Levels

Tomfoolery33 comments on Oct 16, 2018:

I have a German Shepherd, and I'm surprised they're that high on the list.

Fernapple replies on Oct 16, 2018:

The variation between individuals is often greater than than that between breeds. Just the same as when you read studies of human demographic groups.

Why does Agnostic.com only have less than 51,000 members ?

SukiSue comments on Oct 16, 2018:

Personally, I ditched Myspace when it got too big. Then I ditched Facebook when it got to big. If this site gets too big and icky I'll move on too. Bigger isn't always better. Sometimes, when it comes to social sites, bigger can get messy. I have already seen an increase in fighting on this site ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 16, 2018:

Like you post and hope mine which says much the same thing does not steal your thunder.

Spirituality: Same nonsense by another name?

Krish55 comments on Oct 9, 2018:

For me , being spiritual merely means being concerned with more than the material.

Fernapple replies on Oct 16, 2018:

@The-Krzyz I could not agree more about the "plain old material universe". Wanting to 'transcend' only means that you can not truly appreiciate what you really have.

The summer season ends for me (as the photo shows) at the last 'plant fair', at a wonderful old ...

Leafhead comments on Oct 16, 2018:

We had all kinds of plant sales and exchanges everywhere in Dane Cty, WI, until a nasty hitchhiker ruined it. Due to the invasive Asian jumping worm, we can no longer trade or sell plants that have been dug. Many are now catered with annuals in pots, but I have always preferred perennials

Fernapple replies on Oct 16, 2018:

That is very sad, I like perennials most of all myself, it would be a real blow if that happened here. Hope someone finds an answer for you.

The summer season ends for me (as the photo shows) at the last 'plant fair', at a wonderful old ...

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Oct 16, 2018:

I just attended the New Orleans Fall Garden Fest at the City Park botanical gardens. Even bought 5 rose bushes. :) Here, it is not so much an end of gardening season event as it is the start of fall and winter gardening season. I sometimes still have a few rose blooms at Christmas. We have ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 16, 2018:

Thank you, I love hearing about other gardeners lives.

But leave the Wise to wrangle, and with me / The Quarrel of the Universe let be: / And, in some ...

rcandlish comments on Oct 16, 2018:

Attribution should be to Omar Khayyam, Fitzgerald is merely the most renowned translator into English. Wonderful quote though!

Fernapple replies on Oct 16, 2018:

Thank you I love all of it, and am glad you do too, (May post more.) And yes it is perhaps true that you should credit O. Khayyam as well, I am sometimes too hasty when I post, although the E.F. translation is usually regarded as a paraphrase which has only a little to do with the original and owes much more his own imagination.

Does historical studies influence a person to walk against beliefs?

Coffeo comments on Oct 12, 2018:

Not influenced by history — influenced by science.

Fernapple replies on Oct 15, 2018:

Good history, and I do mean 'good' should be a science. And don't forget 'Science History' which is one of the best and easiest ways for many people to come to science.

The future of religion

EricTX comments on Oct 14, 2018:

As human knowledge increases, the need for a supernatural explanation diminishes and the absurdity of traditional fairy tales as truth becomes obvious. Human progress = Irrelevancy of human religion. Old data but trending in the right direction: ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 15, 2018:

Education, though only true education, is the enemy of faith, but that is why churches are always so keen to get their hands on schools. We must still be wary.

What is the correlation between intelligence and a sense of humor?

FynTul comments on Oct 12, 2018:

Humor is still a mystery, or so they say. It has devolved to something of a secret among the wise that laughter is a pain response, or more precisely expecting pain but surprised when it doesn't come. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2223159/

Fernapple replies on Oct 15, 2018:

Yes I agree, all humour involves setting up a threat and then taking it away. Observational humour; it is not a threat because it happened to me before and I survived. Ethnic humour; it happened to someone we don't care about. Irony: it is not a threat because it is always there hidden. And so on.

Consciousness may be the brain's way of dealing w/ entropy. [ibtimes.com]

Fernapple comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Please enlarge.

Fernapple replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@ElementX74 That's OK, it is just that my entropy stops my brain dealing with consciousness.

Consciousness may be the brain's way of dealing w/ entropy. [ibtimes.com]

Fernapple comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Please enlarge.

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2018:

@ElementX74 Explain in more detail.

Validity of a theory

Fernapple comments on Oct 13, 2018:

Science is basically the philosophy of humility, admit that we are not certain and can always improve, especially if we work at it. Religion is the philosophy of arrogance, we are gifted with absolute truth because we are special and chosen.

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2018:

@Omen6Actual Yes I agree science is much more than a philosophy and in many ways it supersedes philosophy, in the same way as it does religion, though not as completely, i was only using the word philosophy in the most general way, meaning all systems of thought, as at the core of the scientific method there is a basic idea.

Is the solution to "hate speech" more speech or less speech?

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2018:

The solution is to grow up

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2018:

@IamNobody Yes that was my point too, yet for some it never seems to come. When we were babies we were at the centre of our parents world and our needs the only thing that mattered, and that was how we saw the world. One of the main points about growing up, is to understand emotionally as well as rationally, that we are not the centre of the universe after all and that our needs are not the most important things the rest of the planet has to deal with. It is too easy to fall into the trap laid by churches, politicians, commercial sales and the media who will all tell us that we can remain the most important thing at the centre of the universe, if we go along with them. (They call him 'God the Father' after all). Perhaps the worlds biggest industry is the business of keeping people infantile so that they can be used like child slaves. This is why people get angry when their irrational beliefs are challenged, it is because you are asking them to grow up and accept that they are not the centre of everything.

“The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but ...

rcandlish comments on Oct 13, 2018:

Surely there was more Press integrity in his day?

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

Maybe not, there were few alternatives in the media of those days, and therefore they could get away with more without reply.

Is the solution to "hate speech" more speech or less speech?

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2018:

The solution is to grow up

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

@IamNobody Agreed. But it is a hard task you have set yourself: best of luck.

Is the solution to "hate speech" more speech or less speech?

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2018:

The solution is to grow up

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

The trouble is that it is hard to tell someone else to grow up, as if they have not grown up they can not posibly understand what you mean.

Political correctness was not even the original term it was called Alternate insert target here.

AnneWimsey comments on Oct 13, 2018:

Simple politeness, being courteous, not judging a book by it's cover, anyone?

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

I agree if you do not call it just 'truth' then you most likely have a hidden agenda.

Just wondering, about past experiences.

AndiPandi comments on Oct 12, 2018:

I have had the same problem, but never went to meet anyone. Just deleted my profile. My profile specifically stated no Christians. Made me jokingly think to myself that they were illiterate.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

The worst ones nearly all use the King James and read no other book, you should write. "Therefore show thowself not to be likend unto a Christian before my face." They should understand better.

You Know God Exists (Nudge-Nudge, Wink-Wink) Within the scope of people who claim that God ...

reversehalo comments on Oct 11, 2018:

You can’t use logic to dissuade someone who didn’t use logic to reach their viewpoint in the first place. “Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to this level and beat you with experience” -Mark Twain

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2018:

I love that quote why not post it on the Quotes Group page.

Why are humans so slow to learn?

AtheistReader comments on Oct 11, 2018:

Really? I disagree. "Justice" and "political health" may be topics of discussion today, but I cannot say I agree with Plato. Why do you believe that HIS teachings are particularly relevant today? He may have had a good foundation, but he is not exactly relevant today. You tell me.

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

I agree there is nearly as much rubbish in Plato as in the bible. If you must pick a classic why not Aristotle.

One of the questions on this site when I signed up was if I believe in God or gods, and then it ...

PalacinkyPDX comments on Oct 11, 2018:

As if that remaining 1% of believing in a gawd means ANYTHING. Either you believe in gawd(s) or you don't. If you haven't seen any genuine proof of such a being and still insist on that remaining 1% of possible belief, then you're just being lazy and waffling, not open minded.

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

@PalacinkyPDX Sorry I don't agree, with regard to God that 1% may be as unimportant as it is, but it is vital to recognize that we can never be 100% about ANYTHING. Otherwise all we have is dogma which is the greatest failing of religion, and if we have that, we can never have the benefits or joys of improving or moving on in any area. Nor can we truly understand why we should respect science, which differes vitally from every other philosophy by valuing that 1% more than gold; as in. "My greatest joy was to disprove at least one fondly held idea before breakfast."

One of the questions on this site when I signed up was if I believe in God or gods, and then it ...

David1955 comments on Oct 11, 2018:

The only advantage of the 1% option is, should you face a God in the afterlife you can claim that you were only 99% an atheist, so God might make a discount and only condemn you to 99% of eternal suffering. Every little bit helps, right? :-) 100% er here

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

Unless god likes 100% atheists, which would seem to be its most likely position, if it is that kind of god.

Is anyone else grateful that the fashion for the word 'Bright' seems to be fading.

Amisja comments on Oct 11, 2018:

What does it mean? (Sorry English person here..bright means an especially clever child usually)

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2018:

Some people tried to promote it as an alternative to sceptic.

Unpopular Opinions I know you got 'em, what are they?

Nichole765 comments on Oct 5, 2018:

I've grown to really dislike Xmas. It starts in October. The nonstop pressure to shop, the crowds, the family obligations, even the decorations. All of it. Just blah.

Fernapple replies on Oct 11, 2018:

We should all get together and refuse to trade with shops who start their christmas push before December.

Unpopular Opinions I know you got 'em, what are they?

QuidamOutrepont comments on Oct 5, 2018:

I hate weddings! It's really not my conception of love and relationship. I find the rituals and traditions arround them annoying and tasteless. If you want to put on a costume, to put on a show in front of an audiance and to get some applauds, become an actor!

Fernapple replies on Oct 11, 2018:

Long ago I heard a stat. that generally speaking, the more people spend on a wedding the shorter time the marriage will last. About says it all.

Why do otherwise rational people believe in GOD?

p-nullifidian comments on Oct 8, 2018:

At the heart of the debate lies—it seems to me—the fundamental belief, or lack thereof, in the dichotomy of what Stephen Jay Gould referred to as non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA). In such a worldview, science has its domain, while religion has its own separate space—the two don’t overlap. ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2018:

@ldheinz Yes I quite agree, they do not make compartments, the irrational is allowed to invade every other part of their thinking, and then to attack the thinking of others, the NOM can never work because one side, the religious do not even see any boundaries.

A common man marvels at uncommon things.

IamNobody comments on Oct 8, 2018:

I guess one can be both at certain times...

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2018:

Very true, we are all a bit of both I think.

There are two things to aim at in life: First, to get what you want; and after that to enjoy it.

Fernapple comments on Oct 8, 2018:

Perhaps there is only one thing to aim for in life, and that is to want and enjoy what you get.

Fernapple replies on Oct 8, 2018:

@Marionville Agreed. I will post a quote on a like theme as well it is a bit of a well known old quote but worth repeating.

There are two things to aim at in life: First, to get what you want; and after that to enjoy it.

Fernapple comments on Oct 8, 2018:

Perhaps there is only one thing to aim for in life, and that is to want and enjoy what you get.

Fernapple replies on Oct 8, 2018:

@Marionville , that is true, the real trick is to cultivate your powers of appreciation if you can, learning to understand and enjoy more; that is a limitless horizon able to last a lifetime, and it provides a defence against the narrow path some people follow in search of endless novelty, leading as it does to trivia, frustration, contrariness and eventually cynicism; because the most important and core things are often the most ordinary. Nor does appreciation stifle ambition, because some of the things which you most learn to appreciate are the fruits of ambition. It is in that way I think much better than the modern idea of 'mindfulness' which is a much more limited and passive form of appreciation, useful but limited.

I just left Christianity, and they talk a lot about this "darkness" that Jesus delivered them from.

Fernapple comments on Oct 7, 2018:

Sadly, I think it is us.

Fernapple replies on Oct 8, 2018:

@BongoCat Just keep living a good life to prove them wrong.

Even now with autumn coming on there is still plenty of colour in the garden.

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Blooms? Here too! ... of course, it is still 90 degree weather here. I am not kidding. A bit warmer than most October's here.

Fernapple replies on Oct 6, 2018:

Baton Rouge, place I always wanted to go, as I can only take holidays in the winter its nice to know you get good late weather. thanks. Have a good winter.

Even now with autumn coming on there is still plenty of colour in the garden.

HeathenFarmer comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Very nice, we just skipped Autumn and went straight to Winter so the garden is now a blaze of white.

Fernapple replies on Oct 5, 2018:

Lot milder here in the UK, but no winter sports.

Even now with autumn coming on there is still plenty of colour in the garden.

SkagwayKim comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Stunning colors!

Fernapple replies on Oct 5, 2018:

Thank you.

Question.

p-nullifidian comments on Oct 5, 2018:

Consider what Christianity might become, were it to morph into the faith of retired Bishop John Shelby Spong, who espouses the following 12 Points of Reform in his book, A New Christianity for a New World: 1. Theism, as a way of defining God, is dead. So most theological God-talk is today ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 5, 2018:

@brentan And if you take all that away from Christianity, nothing but the outline of a shaddow on the wall remains.

Do atheists, who find no magic in the world, live drab, boring lives, by comparison?

benhmiller comments on Sep 30, 2018:

there is plenty to be amazed at in the world with out shit up out thin air or someones ass. One amazing thing is how does a wild flower happen to grow in the crack of civilation? I know a seed fell into the crack got covered enough with dust got enough waster grow but life goes on my majicl being in...

Fernapple replies on Oct 4, 2018:

I love the line. "how does a wild flower happen to grow in the crack of civilation." That's worth posting as a quote.

Do atheists, who find no magic in the world, live drab, boring lives, by comparison?

Heraclitus comments on Oct 1, 2018:

Actually, I find proper prim theists to be boring people. You certainly don't have to believe in a God-is-going-to-get-you cynical delusion to be an interesting person.

Fernapple replies on Oct 3, 2018:

Theisim is a shallow thing about my needs, my god, my salvation etc. and therefore it tends to atract shallow people.

Unpopular Opinions I know you got 'em, what are they?

FatherOfNyx comments on Oct 3, 2018:

I don't like Neil deGrasse Tyson. He never really stood out to me, but when I gathered that he likely believes in a multiverse and pushes it as a fact.. I grew a distaste for him. Maybe push is too strong of a word, but at least implies that it is true when he is "educating" people. As someone who ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 3, 2018:

I have no opinion on NDGT but, while being no expert, I do agree that a lot of cosmology and higher physics now seems based on pure speculation and belief supported by little experimental evidence, some of which is contradictory, and it is in real danger of beginning to act like a religion more than science. Cosmology is protected from an lot of the attacks that religious fundamentalists mount on biology, by the fact that it is seen as complex and difficult to understand, yet maybe the attacks are actually good for biology, because the need to answer them helps to keep it grounded.

There is no duty we so much underrate as the duty of being happy.....Robert Louis Stevenson

Diogenes comments on Oct 2, 2018:

There are mentally impoverished people who are permanently "happy" because they don't have the ability to understand the situation. This by no means, means that a person should 'love depression'- that also would be some weird mental disorder.

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

@Diogenes From what I know of R. L. Stevenson having read him a lot in youth, and knowing him to be a great alturist I think that his meaning of 'duty' may well not be a duty to yourself but a duty to others, and therefore the right amount of happiness is that which pleases those arround you most. I know this is not what the main discourse is about, but I will throw it in for interests sake. Perhaps Marionville would like to give us more of the context of the quote please?

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

CeliaVL comments on Sep 30, 2018:

Serious academic biblical scholars don't claim that the Bible is 'true'. They recognise that it is a collection of folk-tales, legends, poetry and bits of history mixed together to form the foundation story first for Judaism and then for Christianity. It is only fanatical religious believers who ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

The trouble with that is that it is so vague and open to interpretation that people can and do build anything they like on it, and then it just becomes a false claim that you have gods authority to back whatever you invent. Why not at least try to found your world view on something like science which at least tries to be truthful and can be questioned? If you build a house on sand! (Bible quote.)

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

motrubl4u comments on Sep 30, 2018:

The earth isn't 5k years old. That's the only one I need lol

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

@GDean2016 That's because US and European education systems both fail to teach the most important things, exactly such as, repect for evidence and how to test it. And why do they not do that, could it be because they are still dominated by an unatural alliance of the extremme religious right and the extremme political left neither of whom want children to ask well informed questions?

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

Barnie2years comments on Oct 1, 2018:

The Bible that is in use by the majority of Christian beliefs was pieced together from tales written by hundreds of scribes from hundreds of legends. Tales from various beliefs were incorporated into the legends passed down verbally over thousands of years, then reinterpreted over thousands more. It...

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

I like this a lot. But if I wanted to be perfect, I would add that actually there is good historical evidence for Spartacus, unless you refer only to the fictionalized version in the ballet and TV series, and though Ulysses/Odysseus is a legend you could even make a better case I think for him being real than Jesus.

So is it nature not nurture after all? | Science | The Guardian

Flyingsaucesir comments on Oct 1, 2018:

It's both. It's nature AND its nurture. There is a heck of a lot about us that is hard-wired, heredetary, instinctive. And there is also our capacity to set our own course, based on our learning; the sum of our experiences. Call it executive function. The two are inextricably entangled. It's how ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 2, 2018:

@Piece2YourPuzzle The big division which really counts, is between holding groundless belief or not, the niceties within scepticism are tiny and unimportant compared with that. Some may think that they are on a higher rung of the ladder than others, and that may be true, but the really important thing is to have looked up and started the climb out of the cesspit of ignorance and prejudice which is blind unquestioning faith, looking at the light and not swimming nose down among the sludge where the zealots want to keep you. Therefore it is unfair to despise those who use a different ladder or can not climb quite as fast, and for that reason I always call myself a 'Broad Church Sceptic' though I use Atheist only as my main heading.

So is it nature not nurture after all? | Science | The Guardian

Flyingsaucesir comments on Oct 1, 2018:

It's both. It's nature AND its nurture. There is a heck of a lot about us that is hard-wired, heredetary, instinctive. And there is also our capacity to set our own course, based on our learning; the sum of our experiences. Call it executive function. The two are inextricably entangled. It's how ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 1, 2018:

It has always been plain that it is both to most people, in fact the reason why humans and other animals are so interesting is because of the many complex ways in which the two interact. The arguement on both sides comes from those can only want simple answers to questions because they are lazy or because they want to impose simple answers, in other words because they are tyrants at heart. The history of the last century is that of some tyranies trying to mould people to their will by mind contriol, and some tyranies trying to do it by ethnic cleansing and eugenics, and both ideas ended in death camps.

What are your favorite proofs against the Bible?

Kodiamus comments on Sep 30, 2018:

When I run into an evangelical Christian I normally ask at some point “what makes your religion true and all the others false?” which generally brings some silence. ???

Fernapple replies on Sep 30, 2018:

You can then finally corner them into admiting to blind faith alone, which works, or not, for all religions.

Guys ask why women are so pissed off.

Stephanie99 comments on Sep 28, 2018:

My son in law was taught by his parents to cross the street at night if he is coming up behind a woman so that he doesn't freak her out. I was discussing this with a man friend and he thought that it was my son in law letting his actions be controlled by the unwarranted fear of some woman. Would ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 28, 2018:

It does not matter if the fear is unwarranted or not, why would you want to cause any sort of fear if it is avoidable?

I care not whether a man is good or evil; all that I care is whether he is a wise man or a fool.

Fernapple comments on Sep 26, 2018:

Most people are I my experience at least good by nature. Therefore it follows that most of the aviodable harm in the world is caused by folly or laziness and not ill intent.

Fernapple replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Humanist5 That is very true, and it is why I take an interest in sites like this in the first place. Even if we can only make a tiny contribution to moving one or two people towards a better understanding of the world, and even if that is only by exposing our own folly to criticism, being very foolish myself, it is far better than standing by and doing nothing. That is why I rarely care when people find fault with me; because at least it means I have given them cause for thought,

I care not whether a man is good or evil; all that I care is whether he is a wise man or a fool.

Fernapple comments on Sep 26, 2018:

Most people are I my experience at least good by nature. Therefore it follows that most of the aviodable harm in the world is caused by folly or laziness and not ill intent.

Fernapple replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Humanist5 True, but they are few, and compared with the massive mountain of human folly created by people who really beleive they are doing the best for everone, they are almost nothing. The greatest factor in human life above all others is self delusion.

“Never trust a man who reads only one book.

Fernapple comments on Sep 22, 2018:

If they can only read one book, why do they always have to choose the worst ones? And if you were going to recommend a second book which would it be? Mine would be H. G. Wells, 'The Outline Of History', It has its faults but at least t encourages thinking, looks at the big issues without blushing ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 22, 2018:

@Leafhead Oh! At last I get it, they are trying to make us laugh. Though I am not too sure, maybe I have a poor sense of humour, or humour changes over time, it does not seem as funny as the modern ones like Mien Kampf and Mao's little Red Book, which was so funny I almost cried, and even the Koran has better jokes for a feminist text. Love your irony anyway.

Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once ...

Fernapple comments on Sep 16, 2018:

What a shame that most of Epicurus is lost, he seems like the perfect thinker for today. Does anyone know any more good quotes from him?

Fernapple replies on Sep 17, 2018:

@DioneAwakening Lovely, thank you.

(English) Public schools are the nurseries of all vice and immorality.

Fernapple comments on Sep 12, 2018:

I do not think that the churches and the schools in many countries including the uk are really two different things anyway. Many public schools in the past (and still) were run by churchs, and many state schools to this day are still in the church system. It is only now a few years since T. Blair ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 13, 2018:

@Marionville Yes of course much of the evils in the school system are secular and I did not mean to say otherwise, the talk simply got out of hand. My only first point was to point out that schooling in England especially was in origin clerical and that even the none church schools were and are deeply controled by the church which set their tone and direction in the past to a degree that it is hard to imagine today. Remember that for many years the only thing legaly required on school time tables was religion, many school masters were Oxbridge trained and that for centuries only clerics were allowed to teach there, and clerics have always held positions of power on school boards and in the educational sectors of government. I did not wish to take the secular content of Fielding away, mearly to point out that an even greater abuse was the way in which the church has used the schools as tools, even the secular ones, in an atempt to crush meaningful education. It was never my wish to dispute what Fielding said, merely to add an extra nuance to it, since a good idea and comment deserves to be developed and taken wider.

(English) Public schools are the nurseries of all vice and immorality.

Fernapple comments on Sep 12, 2018:

I do not think that the churches and the schools in many countries including the uk are really two different things anyway. Many public schools in the past (and still) were run by churchs, and many state schools to this day are still in the church system. It is only now a few years since T. Blair ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2018:

@Marionville Yes but the school system started in the catholic tradition back in the middle ages, it was an unbroken tradition passed down the generations, since the British reformation was a gradual transition rather than the revolution (with a few violent but limited events) it was in some countries, and it should not be underestimated just how deeply influential the church was in the schools (some of which were church schools) many of the masters had undoubtedly had theological backgrounds, and at the very least the church, the pastors and their no doubt very religious wives stood by and did nothing. While the privilege of the ruling classes very much relied on the churches indoctrination of the population and you can no more separate the church from the British political establishment and its attitudes than you can tease out its fingers from the schools. Why is it important to exonerate the church from its roles in all of this anyway?

(English) Public schools are the nurseries of all vice and immorality.

Fernapple comments on Sep 12, 2018:

I do not think that the churches and the schools in many countries including the uk are really two different things anyway. Many public schools in the past (and still) were run by churchs, and many state schools to this day are still in the church system. It is only now a few years since T. Blair ...

Fernapple replies on Sep 12, 2018:

@Marionville Yes but is not the church also one of the biggest props of and at the heart and core of the class system, and what creates vice like the church. Every public school had a pastor, and in Fieldings day many of the teachers in schools and higher education were clergy too you can not divide the two. P. S not wishing to bore people, but in case you need to know why the church makes vice. The church of course promotes vice because vice leads to guilt, which needs forgiveness, which is the churches big earner. Thus the church encouraged the lack of good behaviour and the idea of vice today get a pass from god tomorrow, even in its schools, and it ran and still runs today though the education system in the UK.

When to switch primarily identifying as an Agnostic to Atheist?

Fernapple comments on Sep 9, 2018:

I sometimes call myself a 'broard church' skeptic, because I think that the biggest split do not forget is between belief and none belief, compared with leaving groundless faith behind the other divisions are tiny, and the most important thing have left behind with that faith is dogma.

Fernapple replies on Sep 9, 2018:

@Rhetoric Yes that's it. I am sorry I was in haste this morning and perhaps did not make myself plain. De spilling an gamma pinctuation is tirrable two. Must be more careful.