Mexico launches raids after assassination attempt of police chief - BBC News

Observer-Effect comments on Jun 28, 2020:

They are busy saving up money for our wall, and it has put their economy into a hard place!

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

@Observer-Effect Sure and some people espouse anarchy and communism in the US and it still can be part of the larger nation. You don't separate based on that alone, but there are places in law, in reality where it HAS to be separate. That's my opinion.

Mexico launches raids after assassination attempt of police chief - BBC News

Observer-Effect comments on Jun 28, 2020:

They are busy saving up money for our wall, and it has put their economy into a hard place!

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

@Observer-Effect Something tells me those in the south are not fans of totalitarianism, but that is opinion. I don't think religious belief or lack thereof would have to be part of it at all. Both of the ideas you suggested are contrary to the constitution and not recommended for either side.

Mexico launches raids after assassination attempt of police chief - BBC News

Observer-Effect comments on Jun 28, 2020:

They are busy saving up money for our wall, and it has put their economy into a hard place!

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

@Observer-Effect I don't know where the best geographic separation would be, but I do have some cognizant thoughts on the ideological divide to found it on.

Mexico launches raids after assassination attempt of police chief - BBC News

Observer-Effect comments on Jun 28, 2020:

They are busy saving up money for our wall, and it has put their economy into a hard place!

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

Maybe instead of building a wall on border with Mexico it should be built in the US and separate people along different ideological lines. I would completely support that!

Another dictator! [dailymail.

Geoffrey51 comments on Jun 28, 2020:

People are only entitled to their opinion if it is based on evidence or science. Anything else is preference or bias.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

@Cutiebeauty There have certainly been comparisons in other regards, but in this exact sense of sending kids back to school it wouldn't happen here, so cannot be compared to Trump. It's actually alarming how much control he, PM Johnson, is attempting to exert. It's crossed a huge line.

Another dictator! [dailymail.

bobwjr comments on Jun 28, 2020:

Absolutely

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

I can't imagine the Pres. here saying that and expecting to enforce it by law. I don't see it ever happening here. I am very surprised UK citizens allow this abuse of power.

Another dictator! [dailymail.

Geoffrey51 comments on Jun 28, 2020:

People are only entitled to their opinion if it is based on evidence or science. Anything else is preference or bias.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

@Cutiebeauty, @Geoffrey51 Well I am of the opinion, and maybe it could somehow be scientifically proven?, that this so called leader should be removed from office. This decision will surely lead to death indirectly. Does accountability no longer exist?

Another dictator! [dailymail.

Cutiebeauty comments on Jun 28, 2020:

"In a message to the unions, Mr Johnson said: ‘It’s the kids from the poorer families who aren’t going back, and so you are entrenching social injustice.’". Are only rich kids back in school or is he full of poop?!

Flowerwall replies on Jun 29, 2020:

I didn't read the full article. I did see that this is what was being discussed - the effects on poorer children. This leader has been perfectly okay with the idea of letting the disease circulate from the beginning. Sending kids back to school, and saying "it's the law" that they return, is like facilitating the spread of the disease under the guise of fighting "entrenched social injustice". I don't buy it.

Tucker is very disappointed with the GOP. [youtube.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 20, 2020:

Yes I can certainly agree with part of what he says here. The failure to quell protests before the destruction got out of hand was highly disturbing. I heard a story today about an area that abuts a riot prone area and has a farely new shopping center at the location. Police planned to stop looting ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 27, 2020:

@prometheus "That should really only apply in as much as people are shooting at the police more. " If you wait until people are opening fire to shoot, you are already putting other people's lives, or your own life at stake. How good of an idea is that? You ever hear about all the innocent people who get shot in drive by shootings? Bullets don't care who they strike. This is more than half of the problem, the criminality in the first place. But there are never awareness campaigns about those issues. Remember Hadiya Pendelton? She is just one girl, an innocent victim gunned down for no reason, but this is happening all over the place all the time. It is a dangerous, mad world out there You don't expect police to be feeling pretty defensive out there? You don't expect police to work first to protect public/selves from an unruly criminal with a gun? People think police should "Defund"? Well Hadiya's murder occurred in Chicago and it happens ALL the time there, has gotten worse during protests, and the mayor says "NO" to defund police. And school board just said "No" to taking police out of schools and I respect both those decisions, because to act otherwise would be wholly irresponsible. Communities NEED police. I will have to finish the rest of the response later.

Yesterday my nephew posted on Facebook that he objected to attempts to take down symbols of his ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 23, 2020:

I can see arguments on both sides, but I tend toward removing all of the statues and agree with renaming military installations or any other government operated facility that bear the name related to confederacy. I don't agree with other statues being removed and defaced in all of the situations ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 23, 2020:

@wordywalt Yes agreed. That's why I said " I tend toward removing all of the statues and agree with renaming military installations or any other government operated facility that bear the name related to confederacy" "The statues ad monuments that need to be taken down were not erected in hose times, but some 39 to 50 years later. " All that has occurred and is occurring is part of history. It's all different points to learn about and discuss, but never to sweep under a rug. The statues are visual representation of this past after the previous past. We need visual representation, if just to say "At one point it was practice to have a statue of such and such in the public square. Was it a good idea? Why or why not?" But I agree NOT in the public square, rather confined spaces for the stated purpose and probably some to be disposed of. I don't know how numerous they are.

On the Juneteenth celebration as everyone refelects on the value of freedom, what are the biggest ...

Geoffrey51 comments on Jun 20, 2020:

People trafficking and organised crime.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 23, 2020:

Well these two issues do seem to be a large part of the illegal slavery that does currently occur in US. It also encompasses the agricultural sector affecting immigrants at much higher levels, and women and children. But this is just from the US perspective. It is my understanding that slavery does still occur in large numbers in India. It is termed bonded labor. I just read "Slavery affects more than 40 million people worldwide – more than at any other time in history" That is a shock to read! Leading areas for slavery in the world currently are in parts of Asia and Africa. It also disproportionately affects the female gender worldwide, though by 8%, so not by a large percentage. Outside of slavery itself are the effects of government on people. Government controlling human behavior so as to restrict the freedom of the individual to not be who the person chooses to be versus what the state says you should be. If slavery is also thought of in those terms, there is probably much more slavery in the world than there is actual freedom.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 23, 2020:

@dermot235 You seem to love trying to control and dictate how other countries aside from your own should govern. Interested to hear your thoughts on every other nation in the world. How could Canada, UK and Mexico improve? What about the rest of the EU? Or do you just specifically target the US? Any ideas on S. American countries, also African, Asian, and Oceanic nations? There has to be a large scale world plan you have in mind, right? I stand by what I said. There may be some aspects of these European models that would best be incorporated in small doses in our society, but only as small fractions of the larger capitalist system. We are what we are here and will not morph into some form of socialists because some europeans think it's what we should do. That's reality whether you like it or not.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 23, 2020:

@dermot235 " You can't be that stupid" Sometimes I do make extremely poor choices, as illustrated here in my responding to you. I do not agree with the amount of tax being paid by people at 57.1% I believe that there alternatives to paying such a high rate of tax that can lead to very similar ends as the one you describe. I also believe in equal access to opportunities by all citizens, with our government needing to figure out a way to make a plan for slavery reparations for those who descended from slavery and are living in poverty currently. For this group of people I believe the government should concentrate enhanced opportunities which would include increased access to social services, scholarships, and some financial payment. If they do not have access to healthcare, yes, of course figure out why not and make sure it is an option. I don't know how exactly it would be funded, but I would not be opposed to a one time tax levied on businesses or the very wealthy. I don't want to see the general payroll tax go up significantly, though small increases would be worthwhile if it uplifted a percentage of people. I would never agree to government plans similar to what Sweden has with such a tight control, micromanaging students EVER. And that includes the taxation. You can say it's apples and oranges, but it is just part of a larger plan of control. I would bet if I looked closer I would find other aspects that were also aimed at controlling people. It may work for Sweden and great if it does, BUT THIS IS THE US NOT SWEDEN.

New Alabama Law Allows Christian Church to Create Its Own Police Force | Hemant Mehta | Friendly ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 22, 2020:

Ironically, this is actually in line with the #defundthepolice movement. I don't think it's right but with the #defund movement gaining traction, this initiative may be more difficult to strike down and rather been seen as a model of how churches, schools, and corporations can "self-police"

Flowerwall replies on Jun 23, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay Although I am just learning a little bit now on blueleaks, which happened yesterday, or a day or two before that. Maybe I will be changing positions on the whole defund idea soon enough, depending on what the findings of it all turn out to be. I know the overall ideas of what was leaked, but what does it all show? I don't know yet. I don't know the severity of it. I think it's all still being analyzed. Considering too, it could be in support of other ideas as well, which seems more likely. Noone knows at this point. My guess would be it's not as bad as it's made out to be.

New Alabama Law Allows Christian Church to Create Its Own Police Force | Hemant Mehta | Friendly ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 22, 2020:

Ironically, this is actually in line with the #defundthepolice movement. I don't think it's right but with the #defund movement gaining traction, this initiative may be more difficult to strike down and rather been seen as a model of how churches, schools, and corporations can "self-police"

Flowerwall replies on Jun 22, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay "I'm confused" Don't be. Not from policing budgets. Not as a knee jerk reaction to protests. Institute policies that create a lessened need for police THEN use concepts like defund. I feel the ideas as presented are completely not workable and I do not support. You may agree with defund movement, I cannot. I feel the ideas as presented would worsen outcomes for the most disadvantaged and so it's no for me.

New Alabama Law Allows Christian Church to Create Its Own Police Force | Hemant Mehta | Friendly ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 22, 2020:

Ironically, this is actually in line with the #defundthepolice movement. I don't think it's right but with the #defund movement gaining traction, this initiative may be more difficult to strike down and rather been seen as a model of how churches, schools, and corporations can "self-police"

Flowerwall replies on Jun 22, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay It's not the word defund that is terrible, it's the ideas behind some of it that are. You need to work on underlying issues of poverty and crime before you start thinking about defunding. It's a completely wrong approach in my mind. Additionally having a growing number of policing agencies would lead to increased inefficiencies. It's like defund is code word for "increase number of agencies of"? As often as possible, it should be in the hands of governing entity to allow for community control. Do I agree with recruiting more people to work in their own neighborhoods, SURE, but problem is often people move out of high crime areas once they attain a good job such as police officer. You have to keep the police in the community as much as possible and the officers of the community they serve as much as possible.

New Alabama Law Allows Christian Church to Create Its Own Police Force | Hemant Mehta | Friendly ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 22, 2020:

Ironically, this is actually in line with the #defundthepolice movement. I don't think it's right but with the #defund movement gaining traction, this initiative may be more difficult to strike down and rather been seen as a model of how churches, schools, and corporations can "self-police"

Flowerwall replies on Jun 22, 2020:

Which proves the point that the whole defund movement is not about justice for those who are the least privileged in society, but advocating for justice for the rich, ONCE AGAIN (a common theme in capitalist society). So in order to have a basic sense of safety you have to be affiliated with a larger group? No thanks. Existence of police and criminal justice system is a basic function of government. If there is a need to incorporate mental health into it, Dems should have done so without allowing burning down half the cities in the US. Because now what? Cities burnt and crime is increasing, but there are NO POLICE? Did they expect federal law to mandate it? It sounds like a lack of initiative at the city levels.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 22, 2020:

@dermot235 So you said Sweden doesn't want the firstborn? https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-lockdown-sweden-compelling-parents-092900158.html It looks like they not only want firstborns, but second, third, fourth, fifth, etc and on and more if you don't follow the rules THEY make. Kind of sounds like inappropriate government overreach doesn't it? Too much control over people's lives. Oppressive taxation is one aspect of totalitarianism. Here we are seeing another aspect.

Tucker is very disappointed with the GOP. [youtube.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 20, 2020:

Yes I can certainly agree with part of what he says here. The failure to quell protests before the destruction got out of hand was highly disturbing. I heard a story today about an area that abuts a riot prone area and has a farely new shopping center at the location. Police planned to stop looting ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 22, 2020:

@prometheus US is not Europe. We have a second amendment. As long as it exists there will always be police killing citizens more so than in Europe. We are not comparable in that sense. You are saying police are all just "corrupt" in the US? You should back that up with facts. Why does everyone want to immigrate to the US if it's such a cesspool of police corruption? Why? Because it's NOT. The problems that are attributable to policing are not the officers themselves, but the higher ups who should have been implementing strategic responses to unfolding crises occurring throughout the nation in major cities. It should never have gotten to the point it did; the fact it did means government failed. Who was responsible? Individual officers or city leaders? I do agree there are problems in " be a government of, for, and by the people." It will never be a problem-free, perfect system. Our job is to fight the dishonesty and lies head on. Putting responsibility largely on police, the average hard-working officer, is a big part of the misrepresentation that is currently occurring in the propaganda feed in the US. The biggest problems lie elsewhere. Do not accept lies you are told.

Tucker is very disappointed with the GOP. [youtube.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 20, 2020:

Yes I can certainly agree with part of what he says here. The failure to quell protests before the destruction got out of hand was highly disturbing. I heard a story today about an area that abuts a riot prone area and has a farely new shopping center at the location. Police planned to stop looting ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 22, 2020:

@prometheus "there wasn't really anything they could do what wasn't essentially pouring gasoline on a fire" YES, it's called POLICE! "what else does a force of maybe 1 or 2 per thousand population have to bring to bear other than more violence" I shouldn't have to study riot control in order to logically assume the police and those who are ultimately in charge, the governing officials, have a responsibility to maintain certain standards in the cities of adherence to law. And in midst of pandemic? There was NO CONTROL. "I guess it is a shock to many how close we live to chaos in this country" Many things have come as a shock including our response to the pandemic. When the funds spent on national biodefense over the years are taken into consideration, you can't understand how lacking we were in so many ways. Where did the billions on top of billions go?

Which Governors have done the best job of managing the coronavirus?

JacarC comments on Jun 18, 2020:

THE DEMOCRATS' LOCKDOWNS KILLED MORE AND WILL KILL MORE. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 18, 2020:

"THE DEMOCRATS' LOCKDOWNS KILLED MORE AND WILL KILL MORE." Please support that statement with facts.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 17, 2020:

@dermot235 Well giving all to only Native American Indians would exclude everyone else! Do you think I don't want good things for Native Americans? It's funny if you think I DO NOT. Good day!.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 17, 2020:

@dermot235 Okay. Whether you grew up with it or not does not mean you are not currently priviledged. I will keep my spelling as is. No problem, but thanks for pointing out my error and hopefully from your priviledged standpoint you feel better about yourself now that you've done so. I don't disagree that the poor need to have easier access to education. I don't think we disagree as much as you think we do with regard to the end societal results we would like to see, but differ on ideas of how we get there. However, considering your tone and mannerism here the entire point of this discussion is not constructive and I will not continue further. I don't think immigrants are less human than I am. Don't mischaracterize what I have said, as it is not speaking well of how you treat others. The US needs to focus on our own citizens in poverty before we can put our focus on others.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 17, 2020:

@dermot235 Well that's why you assert your position because it's coming from a place of priviledge. The percentage of people driving Mercedes in US is not very high. We need to work at increasing the wealth disparity and pull more people out of poverty. When we put more focus on immigrants we do not focus on our own citizens. Then when an incident comes up like we have seen recently everyone is distraught. You don't tell other people how to govern themselves. You can make suggestions and have ideas, but ultimately sovereignty dictates people govern themselves. This idea of one group of people someone having a better way and knowing more is problematic. Not all of the world operates like Ireland. Take for instance Saudi Arabia. If you compare Saudi Arabia to Ireland you see big differences. Do you insert your political ideas there? If not, why not? What about China? Do you tell China how to get things done? The best that can be done anywhere is compare others way of getting things done and try to make iy work in ways that are possible in other regions. I do believe the US needs to focus on our own citizens living in poverty at the current time over others.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 17, 2020:

@dermot235 "It's offensive and disgusting that you don't want FREE health care for everyone. " That must mean you are donating all of your non-essential funds left over from living expenses(and I mean no brand names, no frills,) to pay for immigrants healthcare, RIGHT? Otherwise please, don't tell me how much you care. What about getting involved in increasing immigration to Sweden? You made no mention of that. You can care about US politics all you want, but as a non-citizen your opinion only goes so far. When I comment on political matters that are outside of my geographic area, I do so acknowledging I am an outsider. Maybe you Swede, think you are somehow superior or more knowing than us, in the US? This is the type of attitude that goes behind a racist attitude.

From @blackvisionscollective : In response to the 8CantWait reformist co-optation of decades of ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 15, 2020:

What does "repeal laws criminalizing survival" mean?

Flowerwall replies on Jun 17, 2020:

@Bobbyzen Not the side this position takes. The description under "repeal laws that criminalize survival" are misnamed. The title should read "Don't Call Crime, "Crime" anymore". These ideas would cause more harm to people, including black people, than good. Some of the other ideas I have read are good, but I don't want good ideas mixed in with bad. I only want the good ideas.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 17, 2020:

@dermot235 "But there does not seem to be any shame in you position on this." Correct. I can tell of horror stories regarding people with no health insurance too prior to Obamacare, so please if you are talking from a foreign country, know your place. I have written a long post on this previously. I don't disagree that we need to increase availability and affordability for health insurance coverage and I don't disagree that illegal immigrants should have access to a form of healthcare, including free health clinics and hospitals that are available to the uninsured community. These goals can be accomplished without some tax rate that stifles a person's ability to pay their living expenses. How would a person making a low income ever survive with just about 2/3 of their income in the hands of the government? I think it's not a good idea at all, or possibly, if Sweden is able to comfortably afford more should be accepted in as immigrants? Just the thought of a tax rate at 57% is very disturbing. Next the government will be requiring the first born.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 15, 2020:

@dermot235 You cannot assume of that group of 27.5M people ALL want hearh insurance. It would be very wasteful to give it to those that don't and expect other taxpayers to pay for it. I am sure a not insignificant amount of illegal immigranrs do not pay payroll taxes due to the nature of citizenship status. How could they through legal employment? We can't allow travelers in who pay sales tax representation can we? Although illegal immigrants cannot be fully compared to that group.

From @blackvisionscollective : In response to the 8CantWait reformist co-optation of decades of ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 15, 2020:

What does "repeal laws criminalizing survival" mean?

Flowerwall replies on Jun 15, 2020:

@Bobbyzen https://www.8toabolition.com Oh, this is not a good idea at all. Who would want a person to legally dwell on any public area and use the bathroom freely there? That is an extremely counterproductive idea. How would that idea ever serve the public health? I could on and on about how bad of an idea it is, but I think it's pretty obvious just reading it. How would any of this environment ever be good for children? I guess they also propose no jails and free all prisoners?

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 15, 2020:

@dermot235 You can have access for all, but first you need to figure out who doesn't have it now and why. I am assuming a huge part of the uninsured population are illegal immigrants currently. Who are the rest? From there we figure out how to improve coverage. I believe there was a policy idea I came across from one of the better thinkers on this issue in modern day, which I had later reflected upon was a very good idea though it diverged from what was finally instituted in Obamacare (the individual worked in drafting the ideas in legislation). I should look it all up again.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 15, 2020:

@Rich177, @Freedompath "he knew what he was doing" Yes, I don't know how it happened, the exact process, but something about it appears very intentional.

8:46 - Dave Chappelle - YouTube

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

I haven't listened to this and will not. I have read some descriptions. I do not want to listen to a comedian talk about George Floyd because I can't equate the issues in my mind of comedy and the seriousness of these issues. At some point in history certain aspects you look back and laugh, but I ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay On second thought maybe what I perceived as "racism (black on black racism) and sexism in the routine." Is political attack?

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@dermot235 No, I didn't. I do agree we could vastly improve access to healthcare but not with THOSE taxes.

Ex-US Police Officer debunks 'Black Lives Matter', taking a knee & protests - Brandon Tatum - BQ 19 ...

Fred_Snerd comments on Jun 14, 2020:

The only thing that's going to stop the right wing is a war. Fortunately, they want one. Will they put Uncle Tom on the front line?

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@Fred_Snerd I am not familiar with the process. I don't report people. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you are talking like that at this moment.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@dermot235 No. Make education more affordable for the poorest, raise the overall wealth of all, THEN look at this type of oppressive taxation, but be VERY LEARY.

Sweden has the highest income tax rate in the world, with as much as 57.

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

Absolutely TOO MUCH

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@dermot235 Yes. "57.1%" Might be okay for those at the top tier of income, but what about everybody else? If the wealth of the poorest citizen can easily accommodate then okay, but until that time, it's a no.

Ex-US Police Officer debunks 'Black Lives Matter', taking a knee & protests - Brandon Tatum - BQ 19 ...

Fred_Snerd comments on Jun 14, 2020:

The only thing that's going to stop the right wing is a war. Fortunately, they want one. Will they put Uncle Tom on the front line?

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@Fred_Snerd I posted the full words originally and that was bad judgment. I don't like the language. It doesn't mean you should be banned, but I think there should be limits here.

Ex-US Police Officer debunks 'Black Lives Matter', taking a knee & protests - Brandon Tatum - BQ 19 ...

Fred_Snerd comments on Jun 14, 2020:

The only thing that's going to stop the right wing is a war. Fortunately, they want one. Will they put Uncle Tom on the front line?

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

I have not watched this whole video, but have just seen the beginning and read your comment. Why is this racist "U---- T--" verbiage allowed here?

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@Freedompath "It is true that Rome, was not built in a day." Very true. It was, however, destroyed in large part due to bad governance. Just worked on something related to that idea recently, lol. "Monitor your own progress, with something that you wish to improve. It will have ‘fits and starts,’ and change very slowly...this is human, we are all humans!" Agreed

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@Freedompath Well this is the problem. If we want to TRULY solve the issues of racial inequality in our society, poverty and crime as well, we have to focus on the right actions. Being involved and caring is a first step, but we have to make sure the actions that will solve or at least greatly reduce the problems are the ones to focus on, otherwise we lose time and the problems continue or worsen.

8:46 - Dave Chappelle - YouTube

Flowerwall comments on Jun 14, 2020:

I haven't listened to this and will not. I have read some descriptions. I do not want to listen to a comedian talk about George Floyd because I can't equate the issues in my mind of comedy and the seriousness of these issues. At some point in history certain aspects you look back and laugh, but I ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay There was one line I read that was actually VERY FUNNY, but it's unfair, the bigger picture of what he said, so I won't repeat it. Some of his criticism I do understand. I haven't watched it, so I won't start picking apart my individual reactions.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 14, 2020:

@Freedompath Apparently I am not the only person who holds an unfavorable opinion of Minneapolis City Council decision. An organization that is local to Minneapolis, Communities United Against Police Brutality, has fought against police brutality for 20 years locally there has described Council's decision in highly unfavorable terms using words like "pandering" and 'pose as great reformers while doing absolutely nothing,'

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 13, 2020:

@Freedompath I appreciate your thoughtful words.

Minneapolis police officers pen open letter condemning former officer Derek Chauvin - CNN

Flowerwall comments on Jun 13, 2020:

Rep. Omar said that "Minneapolis Police Department was rotten to the root." Who do we believe now? That was a very damning thing to say about an entire organization. I can imagine it worked to furthet upend community's fragile sense of trust during extremely difficult time. Is there more to this ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 13, 2020:

@altschmerz This is a foreign policy issue that I am not familiar with at all. Thank you very much for posting! I will read up on it.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 13, 2020:

@Freedompath "It is not helpful to try and ‘read’ other people’s mind!" I'm not. Basing off of a reasonable assumption, a survey conducted in Minneapolis community last year (I linked In another post) , and what I have heard officials from other cities say about residents feelings on disbanding police. Thanks for the personal suggestions on managing emotions. Very thoughtful! But it's not myself I am so concerned about, as I said I don't live there. I will feel better when I know the residents are being treated fairly and life has returned to normal and is improving for them.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 13, 2020:

@Freedompath I said "Doesn't make it any less traumatizing on the victim though" You said " Ilittle perfection in this world!" I was saying this in regard to how people feel vs. council's response. No, I don't expect city council's response to be perfect, but I do expect them to provide adequately for residents' to feel they are safe after being terrorized by multiple groups. It's a basic function of government. Nothing anyone says will change my mind until I hear it from the residents themselves, read surveys that a majority agree and see beneficial outcomes in the community. These things won't be something to see for a time, until then I can't hold a positive opinion of city council's decision.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 13, 2020:

@Freedompath "The riots born out of injustice is not the same as people who have no respect for others or their property." Most crime is not committed by terrible people, but by people who don't know a better way. Doesn't make it any less traumatizing on the victim though.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 13, 2020:

@Freedompath Yes Minneapolis city council voted unanimously today to disband police. You said " so that every citizen feels safe from the people who are sworn to serve and protect us." What about feeling safe from the terror that gripped it? When you look at the overview of the damage it is DEVASTATING! I stated above " What if more attacks are planned?"above and I don't want to incite panic, but when I read of the devastation I feel EXTREMELY WORRIED for the residents. I don't live there (so it's an outsider's opinion), but I can't imagine how the average working person feels now that does. Average working people were likely not as fully represented at protests because they have other responsibilities that might not allow them to be there. What about the elderly? Preople with families. There have been talks of these different groups, not ONE or TWO, but a handful with different affiliations that terrorized city and then to say "no more police!" If I was a resident I would be VERY CONCERNED about these groups that did terrorism, more so than danger from officers as the criminal officers are fired. Unless are there MORE? I have not heard talk of it. I wonder what city council thinks about all residents feelings on the threat from terrorists vs. police. How did it ( a full analysis of residents responses) get assessed by the city council? The entire idea of defunding a police department is something I had never heard of prior to this. Maybe it's a concept it's difficult to wrap my head around. Some of the alternatives presented seem like it would be the same thing for violent crime as having police, but just a different name. Quote on it reads, "One recommendation from activists involves a smaller, more-specialized force of 'public servants' who would deal with solving violent crimes." It could be the same scenario as now unless it is disarmed individuals, I don't know. I will read more. The rest of what was said in the hour long presentation was well put together. I don't really have too many critiques of what former Pres Obama said. He is a very good speaker and listening to him you get a completely different feeling. He should give weekly speeches just to calm peoples' minds during this horribly stressful time.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@Freedompath Troubled in the video by Councilman 's statements that his ward was "terrorized by white supremacists " and the follow up action of his council is disband police? How would this make sense? City has been targeted (according to what he has publicly stated) and THAT is the response? What am I missing here? What if more attacks are planned? How would the city fare with a newly formed community-led model? As a response to be terrorized I don't understand it. The destruction was very devastating to the city. It seemed to overwhelm. Why break down the only organized system you have to combat it NOW?

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@Freedompath I just started watching recent interview with former Pres. Obama and My Brother's Keeper Org. It's a long presentation and really overviews the position he takes. I went through quickly and already find one aspect that has me questioning. I need to listen to it more. I don't want to start critiquing his ideas without fully listening.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@Freedompath "never ‘cling’ to any leader or person! " Well I think that former Pres. Obama perspective is THE perspective that offers us the most here. He was at the TOP. I think if he saw more that was of concern and needing change he would have stated it. He is saying mayors. He also talks about more data that's been collected, which are opportunities to learn from and improve. Wondering what data specifically he refers to in the clip. Additionally, the younger you are and the less life experience you have, clinging to the ideas of the greatest leaders is a good idea. We need to feel some sense of stability here because it's all very out of control for the time being.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@AnneWimsey "so you think it is just peachy that those cops were Judge, Jury, & Executioner? Jeffrey Dahmer got an actual Trial! Oh, wait, he was white......" I don't know what you are talking about. I am talking about the effectiveness of our current system. If you are confused about my opinions on Floyd case please look upward. If you are confused on my opinion of systemic racism, please see clip posted above by former Pres. Obama. I will trust his opinion probably more than anyone else, unless I see strong conclusive evidence otherwise and even then I would still be half doubting that someone made it up!

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@Freedompath, @dermot235 "It is sad and scary, as our leaders cannot bring us to our ‘better natures!’" EXACTLY. I have heard people criticize former Pres. Obama on this website! I don't understand. We need to find our highest functioning, most proficient leaders whether past or present and cling to them like life rafts because the current leaders are failing us.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@dermot235, @Freedompath I am going to leave it here. Not responding to specific statements at this point because I like to discuss the politics, not concerned with personal issues. I was a fan of former Pres. Obama, still am, though I wasn't following politics as much and want to learn more about his specific policies myself. But here he is directing responsibility to mayors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUwTnuzlqP0

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@dermot235 "an outsider looking in can be of great value don't you think" Yes that's why I said "I appreciate insights from people in foreign countries" Calling me Trumpian, my statement, is a way to bother my mind because I just stated I am not a fan of him. You appear to be the Trumpian here for that very reason!

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@Freedompath "I should hope that the ‘officer in charge,’ has ENOUGH humanity. Rules and laws mean nothing to the individual at any level...without humanity!" Well SURE. Build in systems that do not allow acts of inhumanity to go unpunished. But that surely goes all ways, police, yes, very importantly, criminals too, of course. If we can eliminate the crime in the first place it's a very good thing. Less crime is good for people, need less police, everyone is living better under that system. How do we get there? Dems say "Disband police". Do away with CRIME FIRST, I say.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@dermot235 If you don't live in US, you are not in a position to give the best feedback to how things should be run. I appreciate insights from people in foreign countries, but I would value the opinion of people living here much more. ""why haven't you done it before?" I didn't mean YOU. I meant the elected officials. Also we have had a black Pres. Don't you think if there was indeed a systemic problem that required Feds HE would have stepped in? Or are you going to tell me former Pres. Obama was a racist? Either that or you are referring to an uptick that has occurred since he has been in office?

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@Freedompath But who is in charge ultimately? It's not the police officers. It's the elected officials, lawmakers. You cannot abdicate responsibility when things are not making you look good, like you have not done your job well, and now it's not your OWN fault. You need to CHANGE it proactively. These are people LIVES at stake.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@dermot235 I never assumed you were Dem. You are taking discussion too personally. I am discussing facts here. I am at core a Dem myself, though all of this has me completely questioning if Dem policies are actually working for people, especially black people. To not question that is to be led blindly placing party loyalty over the true welfare of people. This is America, you are correct. It's a beautiful place and should be working FOR ALL. If you tell me all of a sudden Dems are just going to magically solve this NOW, I am going to ask "why haven't you done it before?" You were in charge the whole time? (Of large cities) Yes Repub Pres. Not a big fan AT ALL. But I don't want Pres. micromanaging police in cities. Not Pres. job. Should be getting handled on citywide levels.

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@dermot235 "Are you just looking for reason to BLAME people for what's happening other than the police who were recorded doing this" Why is that question asked of me when I clearly said in first paragraph "Additionally, Floyd should not have been placed down on ground with officers kneeling on his body as he was stating he can't breathe. A crime was committed there." Possibly you didn't understand that the crime I was referring to was the crime of the officers, but I thought that would be obvious to the reader considering the sentence preceding it. So I don't understand where you are coming from AT ALL. What stats have I twisted? Please elaborate. Has it been occurring in predominately Dem, cities or not? The answer to the question can only be YES or NO. Which one is it? Dealing with FACTS and REALITY is a great way to find a solution. So please answer the question with a Y or N. Thank you!

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@dermot235 "Because the punishment for the crimes he committed is not the DEATH PENALTY. " Don't mischaracterize what I said. Please don't deny reality either because other interpretations are easier for you to manipulate. As to the innocence project I won't deny that more blacks have been effected according to numbers I just read there, but in comparison to overall commission of crime rates it is not hugely off. A more in depth analysis could give more clues to the reasons for this, so factors could be changed. But again, isn't the vast majority of this occurring in democratically run places, such as big cities? Why have Democrats allowed this? I fear the Democrats are not solving the problems. If the Democrats were aware of this injustice why not act on it?

Tulsa mayor said we are not shooting African Americans as much as we should be

Flowerwall comments on Jun 12, 2020:

I just read this article. Mayor worded it very poorly, but noone has mentioned the numbers themselves. If you look across the nation, you see a similar pattern of LOWER death by police interaction for blacks than whites when you compare to commission of murders and other serious crimes.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@dermot235 Let me know what crime stats you are referring to. Please link or cite. Additionally, Floyd should not have been placed down on ground with officers kneeling on his body as he was stating he can't breathe. A crime was committed there. But let's not forget the crime Floyd himself had committed in past including home invasion and holding a pregnant woman with gun pointed at stomach. Or maybe you think women should just be silent victims and this behavior is okay? Floyd had walked down a crime filled path including having fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system. Why is noone talking about charges on THAT? Not ONE person has mentioned that. Absolute silence from all. Where were the people and the policies that should have prevented all of this in the first place? It occurred in a Democratically run city. What's going on there? Why does it keep happening in those places? At this point Democrats are protesting their own democratic policies and that's very unfortunate.

So, should we be isolating, or protesting? [theguardian.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 10, 2020:

Sure move freely as though there is not a pandemic currently going on if you don't give a damn about public health, which quite a huge number of Americans do not. The lives, including black lives, lost to covid will far outweigh lives lost in police interactions by hundredfold and much, much more....

Flowerwall replies on Jun 11, 2020:

@Allamanda And an additional tangent. "Dr. Deborah Birx, President Trump’s coronavirus response coordinator, warned the nation’s governors on a conference call that 70 coronavirus testing sites had been destroyed amid widespread protests in the wake of the death of George Floyd." https://www.yahoo.com/news/dr-birx-says-george-floyd-151449109.html This article hasn't even mentioned the destruction of pharmacies or other health facilities.

So, should we be isolating, or protesting? [theguardian.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 10, 2020:

Sure move freely as though there is not a pandemic currently going on if you don't give a damn about public health, which quite a huge number of Americans do not. The lives, including black lives, lost to covid will far outweigh lives lost in police interactions by hundredfold and much, much more....

Flowerwall replies on Jun 10, 2020:

@Allamanda "In the ongoing debate over policing in Minneapolis, it’s been difficult to get a pulse on public sentiment. Thanks to a new citywide survey, that’s no longer the case....Among respondents of color, 65% supported adding 250 officers." https://m.startribune.com/majority-of-minneapolis-residents-back-hiring-more-patrol-officers/559612352/

So, should we be isolating, or protesting? [theguardian.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 10, 2020:

Sure move freely as though there is not a pandemic currently going on if you don't give a damn about public health, which quite a huge number of Americans do not. The lives, including black lives, lost to covid will far outweigh lives lost in police interactions by hundredfold and much, much more....

Flowerwall replies on Jun 10, 2020:

@Allamanda Go for it! I will continue to question whether it's the will of the people irregardless. Hopefully more people will too.

So, should we be isolating, or protesting? [theguardian.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 10, 2020:

Sure move freely as though there is not a pandemic currently going on if you don't give a damn about public health, which quite a huge number of Americans do not. The lives, including black lives, lost to covid will far outweigh lives lost in police interactions by hundredfold and much, much more....

Flowerwall replies on Jun 10, 2020:

@Allamanda "no doubt you have six more tangents in store." Probably MORE. Don't underestimate. I didn't know you were supportive of plutocratic aims. Thanks for clearing that up. You said "again" please refer me to the first time you cited dismantling of police as being the will of the people.

So, should we be isolating, or protesting? [theguardian.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 10, 2020:

Sure move freely as though there is not a pandemic currently going on if you don't give a damn about public health, which quite a huge number of Americans do not. The lives, including black lives, lost to covid will far outweigh lives lost in police interactions by hundredfold and much, much more....

Flowerwall replies on Jun 10, 2020:

@Allamanda Here is our modern day plutocratic control shining clearly for the world to see "The council members who took part in the announcement included Cam Gordon, Steve Fletcher, Phillipe Cunningham, Jeremiah Ellison, Andrea Jenkins, Alondra Cano, Lisa Bender and Jeremy Schroeder. The announcement comes after various entities such as the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis Public Schools, First Avenue, and others decided to end or limit their relationship with the police department." (Said of "A veto-proof majority of Minneapolis City Council members announced Sunday during a rally at Powderhorn Park that they are planning to disband the police department.") Unless you can show me where the majority of constituents support this idea in scientifically collected data, I will not believe the actions of the few to be an honest representation of the People's will.

So, should we be isolating, or protesting? [theguardian.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 10, 2020:

Sure move freely as though there is not a pandemic currently going on if you don't give a damn about public health, which quite a huge number of Americans do not. The lives, including black lives, lost to covid will far outweigh lives lost in police interactions by hundredfold and much, much more....

Flowerwall replies on Jun 10, 2020:

@Allamanda "disbanding the entire force there." Why is this call being made NOW when transparency in department is MOST needed? Hmmm. Why? I will reask the question, where is the information that states majority of constituents support this idea? Government is supposed to be "we the people", where are the "people" in this discussion and decision making process? Or are we supposed to believe the narrative that one protest in which Mayor of Minneapolis is booed for not supporting disbanding is representative of the People's voice? Please support this statement with facts "polices' impunity in targeting and killing black people." And if you can prove this statement to be true , calls to disband the police make me believe the true intentions of those calling for it at this point in time are advocating for obfuscation of the true extent of the problem and true nature of what has occurred. If it is racism LET IT BE KNOWN. If it is something else, LET IT BE KNOWN. Additionally I treated protestors unfairly in my opening sentence. There were MANY protesting with masks.

How would you know if you were being subjected to a mass campaign of information, especially of a ...

Fernapple comments on Jun 10, 2020:

The first thing I always ask is. Who gains from this.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 10, 2020:

@Fernapple I don't think most people operate under this idea "I trust nothing and nobody", I don't think most people should. By and large most systems around us are good systems meant to encourage our well being. It is not a good approach to constantly mistrust everything unless you can accurately put it in context (probably in your case you are older and have had more life experiences and so it DOES work for you) But the beginning clues I see are viewpoints that are one-sided and cannot withstand any questioning or counterarguement. In my mind it's a sign of absence of balance, a dismissal of reality.

How would you know if you were being subjected to a mass campaign of information, especially of a ...

Fernapple comments on Jun 10, 2020:

The first thing I always ask is. Who gains from this.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 10, 2020:

Well yes. It's definitely a good question to ask. But before you even put yourself into a questioning or doubting frame of mind, how do you get there? What are initial clues that something is amiss? If you are a frequent consumer of a certain news or commentary program that had elements of propaganda in it, how would you know it was actually a brainwashing tool?

Defund police vs. Keep policing Two incompatible ideologies?

Paracosm comments on Jun 8, 2020:

Defunding the police is a step towards shifting responsibilities and expanding community services and programs that are better equipped to meet needs like mental health care, housing, community mediation, etc. ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 8, 2020:

While I can agree a with very small amount of what is said here, I still feel the majority of the discussion is off point. It's like an illogical attempt at logic by saying "we will lower our crime statistics by not making crime be crime"(please see second paragraph). I don't have the time to go through point by point and tell you exactly where the mistakes are, though I could, but I believe the Democrats have failed in key ways here, and this makes me extremely upset as my core party beliefs are in line with much of what democrats stand for. "Defunding" is an absolute no. How do Democrats explain the high incidence of the very crime they claim to be able to solve as being highest in cities where the mayors and politicians are predominately democrats? Maybe dems are creating the very problems they state they are trying to solve. Either that or something else is making it just not work, but dems should be looking at themselves first. Tell me in dem cities across the country why do we keep hearing the SAME STORY? High crime. Over and over again. It's almost as though Democrats are protesting their very own policies, themselves. Now in Mexico defunding police might be how the government deals with crime, or something similar(I don't know exactly what the policy is there), but the US does NOT need to rebuild our entire policing system, when focused, incremental change is what's REALLY needed, including possibly INCREASING funding for police. (I have something I will include that gives argument for it).

Defund police vs. Keep policing Two incompatible ideologies?

hankster comments on Jun 8, 2020:

right now I am of the opinion the police need to be "refunded". I don't mean that they get a refund. I'm thinking we have to transition law enforcement from the current situation to one that is more legitimate. especially in the Personnel category. law enforcement needs a do-over from scratch.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 8, 2020:

We need to build in greater accountability to the public That point is certain.

Defund police vs. Keep policing Two incompatible ideologies?

Gatovicolo comments on Jun 8, 2020:

The police are a necessity, but better regulation is required.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 8, 2020:

@Gatovicolo You should use a clearer line of speech to communicate. If you mean "offensively impolite or ill-mannered". You have no basis to make that attack against me. If you mean "having a startling abruptness" , then why would I ever stop that?

Defund police vs. Keep policing Two incompatible ideologies?

OldMetalHead comments on Jun 8, 2020:

If you have the time and inclination, please watch the video I posted. It answers your questions quite well I think. https://agnostic.com/discussion/504041/police-last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver-hbo

Flowerwall replies on Jun 8, 2020:

That's a 30 minute video. Please give main points if you care to debate it.

Defund police vs. Keep policing Two incompatible ideologies?

Gatovicolo comments on Jun 8, 2020:

The police are a necessity, but better regulation is required.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 8, 2020:

@Gatovicolo Wrong. People want to defund police. Exactly what it says. Give em a social worker instead. And that sounds like I DON'T support increased social services, which is the OPPOSITE of what I believe. However when discussions turns to this, defunding, all support of ideas is lost. One vulnerable group of the population should not be sacrificed for another. And per usual we are expecting females to bear the brunt of the problems, as melee would ensue and women, and children, would be most at risk for being victims. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alexandria-ocasiocortez-aoc-nypd-de-blasio-george-floyd-protest-defund-police-a9553606.html?amp This is the pattern and the problem with our government. We go from one extreme to the other.

Defund police vs. Keep policing Two incompatible ideologies?

Gatovicolo comments on Jun 8, 2020:

The police are a necessity, but better regulation is required.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 8, 2020:

Then why do we hear this defund as though it is a legitimate aspect of discussion. Trying to push people OUT of Democratic party I suppose.

This is how much damage a single rubber bullet can do.

St-Sinner comments on Jun 5, 2020:

Is it real? Not Photoshopped? It is surprising that she not treated, awake and no bandage when the wood looks terrible. Yet terrible. Must be banned. The police departments around the nation have not changed for 200 years other than modernization around the edges like the modern cars, ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 5, 2020:

No police are not perfect. But if you don't see the manipulation that is going on in the bigger picture you are not as blind as a bat, yo are more blind.

Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ...

Silver1wun comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I'd be more suspicious of Chauvin having had something to do with Floyd's possession of the counterfeit $20... If so, it would furnish a motive and elevate the charge to murder one.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 5, 2020:

@Silver1wun Another angle to the case. George made acquaintance with a man who just so happened to also be originally from Houston too while in MN. This was the man in the car with him when the arrest/murder happened. What are the odds of that? He did, as strange as it sounds, of all the cities in the world Houston. They met through church according to this article. And unfortunately, he had a criminal record. Outstanding warrants for "firearm, felony domestic assault and felony drug possession" May have been a rehabilitation program for offenders coming out of Houston, but the program was not beneficial to George as he was using while in contact with someone who was also having drug related issues. This is a big-boy no for people who are in recovery or having issues. https://www.yahoo.com/news/witness-floyds-car-says-friend-121911886.html

Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ...

Silver1wun comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I'd be more suspicious of Chauvin having had something to do with Floyd's possession of the counterfeit $20... If so, it would furnish a motive and elevate the charge to murder one.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 4, 2020:

@Silver1wun Here's another aspect to the the case regarding past convictions on Floyd's record that included drugs, assault, and robbery. https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/george-floyd-had-violent-criminal-history-minneapolis-union-chief/ Also heard he had not lived in MN for a very long time. https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/george-floyd-had-violent-criminal-history-minneapolis-union-chief/ Would be something to hear how he choose MN as his place to relocate. Far from Houston. Maybe family. Maybe a job. Had to be some reason. (Update: article now says because of a pastor) Also this." Acevedo says they heard a noise resembling a bomb-like explosion on the first floor. (Building that included club where the both men worked at) https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/04/sahan-la-raza-radio-relaunches-days-after-burning-down-during-george-floyd-protests There are definitely agitators in MN. Where are community cam footage of people posting signs? Law enforcement needs to provide results of investigations soon. https://www.thedailybeast.com/minnesota-homes-with-blm-signs-are-receiving-death-threats There are different factions involved here. This has been clearly documented. You even see just pure embracement of mayhem by individuals who are not organized.

Why escalation by police is the wrong move, and not just morally - [fivethirtyeight.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I didn't get a chance to read this all but thinking of the right to assembly. "The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 4, 2020:

@Leontion "you seem to be a pretty committed racist" Please explain in a clear, informed way how you jumped to THAT conclusion, completely mischaracterized me, and attached an extremely incendiary label on myself based on an idea I expressed. I am just going to notate it's been a stressful time, you are looking for someone to blame, and here I am. I understand. I think everyone is worked up over covid too, which is why I completely disagree with having protests right now. Not smaller well organized ones held during the day that remain peaceful, but even there, is it the right thing to even be doing from a disease management perspective? The mission has been achieved in the Floyd case with the charges. And maybe more charges based on the toxicology? I think people want to feel connected and affirmed and heard and safe, but this timing due to pandemic requires special care. It could be some of the looting is coming from a place of fear based on economic hardship. It's like this stressed out state is not good, it pushing people to criminal acts and how does that serve society or themselves? A leader who is doing a good job will look at the nation and ask, what is best for people? How do we keep people out of harm? I saw a really good YouTube video yesterday that I watched and wanted to repost, this woman gives the looters a verbal lashing because she is absolutely FED UP. She lives in the neighborhood and the very objects they have destroyed were needed by the residents, including a homeless man who relied on the outdoor charger. People who are barely making it now have had things destroyed that they relied on. That's not good.

Can somebody please explain this to me?

WilliamFleming comments on Jun 2, 2020:

It’s so if the cops want to shoot you there won’t be anything in the way,

Flowerwall replies on Jun 4, 2020:

Well that is one way to see it, cops or whoever might have the gun. I am still wondering how this ever came up. How did the name get chosen? "Responsible Body Armor Possession Act"

Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ...

Silver1wun comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I'd be more suspicious of Chauvin having had something to do with Floyd's possession of the counterfeit $20... If so, it would furnish a motive and elevate the charge to murder one.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 3, 2020:

@Silver1wun Now according to this news article it sounds like there is some racism in Chauvin past. https://readsector.com/minneapolis-cop-derek-chauvin-used-knee-jerk-and-overkill-tactics-while-working-security-at-a-club/ This should be documented in police records as it says police were called in this incident(s). We should hear about these related records at some point. Other question is why business owner didn't act to protect black clientele if she recognized a pattern with his actions that were racist. Didn't she have a responsibility to act on their behalf? Macing people strictly on their race is a very unjust thing to do. Also, it appears his racism was very specific. He was working in a minority club, but then was only noticed to be racist against blacks. I wonder how common "one race" racism is?

Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ...

Fred_Snerd comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I've been waiting for that to pan out.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 3, 2020:

@Lorajay Well that's a big assumption to jump to, isn't it? We should use evidence to label someone of that. Otherwise every time there is a crime that occurs between two different races or ethnicities we could say it's always based on race.

BET founder calls for $14T in reparations for slavery. Is it a good or bad idea?

MsAl comments on Jun 2, 2020:

My white girl take is that something should be done. Our country was literally built and sustained by industrialized mass slavery for most of its history and the inequality that exists today because of it is unacceptable. I dont know the details of his proposal but it seems like a one time cash ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 3, 2020:

I agree a one time cash payout doesn't seem enough. A cash payout would be appropriate with other aspects in place. I think the biggest thing would be more like a strengthened social service and people should be prioritized based on need. Those in the areas with least wealth.

Why escalation by police is the wrong move, and not just morally - [fivethirtyeight.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I didn't get a chance to read this all but thinking of the right to assembly. "The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 3, 2020:

@Allamanda Well tell that to the two men who I just heard about killed in IL during this looting. Oh no, wait we are focusing on justice, right? Wait, WHOSE justice? Those two dead men are minorities, don't know which minority, why would that matter anyway? Only they won't get the attention or the big rallies. They are just dead. And their deadness doesn't fit anyone's agenda at the moment. "Fascism" is that the new word we use to describe a lawful society? The Government needs to drastically limit ANY protest because of how it is devolving into sheer lawlessness. I just watched video of ANOTHER "peaceful" protest today become an elderly man being punched in the face by a young man. Government DO SOMETHING. At the end of the segment the anchor says more peaceful protests tomorrow, ha-ha. (That's sarcasm, absolutely nothing funny about violence) But maybe his justice (the elderly man) is somehow irrelevant or less important here? Oh and the handful of officers injured by the incendiary device. Their justice? So yeah, it is not very equal like you said, no, not at all, but keep protesting it?? This is not logical!

Why escalation by police is the wrong move, and not just morally - [fivethirtyeight.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I didn't get a chance to read this all but thinking of the right to assembly. "The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

@Allamanda Not the world you live in. Your in the islands, right? We all exist in our own worlds to some extent anyway.These men were crying out of sheer desperation and sadness. Probably lost everything he saved up for over a lifetime. And saw others who had went through the same. I think allowing these protests in the midst of a pandemic was a very bad idea. Our collective national psychology was already bad due to it and now we just received another blow.

Why escalation by police is the wrong move, and not just morally - [fivethirtyeight.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I didn't get a chance to read this all but thinking of the right to assembly. "The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

@Allamanda I have seen grown adult men on camera sobbing because of the damage they have witnessed from the looters, and the after effects of all this.

Why escalation by police is the wrong move, and not just morally - [fivethirtyeight.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I didn't get a chance to read this all but thinking of the right to assembly. "The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

@Allamanda Thanks for sharing. I do not have a problem with ANY peaceful protesters, but WHAT is the protest about now? The MN attorney general is investigating the case, he is black ( well I don't know for sure, guessing, pretty sure he is). I think the family feels good about him being there. I feel it sounds too strong when I saw "The entire universe does not center around this case. " It is not meant to dismiss the Floyd family's loss. Anyone who has a basic concept of fairness knows you don't hold someone down on the ground like that m, and not especially when the person can't breathe. This NEEDS prosecution. ABSOLUTELY! But let the AG do his job. It's just a vague idea now we are protesting. Or does the crowd know better how to handle the case? If it doesn't create violence it is okay, the protesting. But what about stand offs? I think people would better serve others who are vulnerable by actually volunteering to help a cause long-term that ends violence and poverty.

Can somebody please explain this to me?

Druvius comments on Jun 2, 2020:

Not sure. I know this incident got body armor bans proposed, even though their armor was mostly home made. Not terribly popular legislation, can't imagine it will go anywhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

Yes I see 3%. I still don't understand. But this link did help some. Thank you.

Why escalation by police is the wrong move, and not just morally - [fivethirtyeight.com]

Flowerwall comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I didn't get a chance to read this all but thinking of the right to assembly. "The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

@Allamanda Well RIGHT. "the escalators are the police themselves in most cases, and planned right-wing interference they hope will be blamed on black people." So why not stop it before it starts? We saw various states of different political parties allow it. Why? The entire universe does not center around this case. The entire universe should be centered around our 328.2M citizens and non-residents (I mean from our perspective, as it relates to what we are prioritizing when we make crucial decisions like allowing assembly) I have a personal theory about the Floyd/Chauvin case. Well not theory, just questions. "Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ..." What even IS the policy with violent protests? Varies from state to state? What is YouTube's policy on advocating violence? Is there a policy? (Sorry side question here)

Peaceful Protest Decatur, IL - YouTube

of-the-mountain comments on Jun 2, 2020:

Funny how the police are able to hold back and stop peaceful marches and demonstrations with tear gas, rubber bullets, and tasers to harm them!!! Yet, the where are the police when the looting is taking place!!! The obstructionist republicans fascist are using these staged looting evens to ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

@Alchemy I agree and feel extremely uncomfortable with this scenario. My state Gov did a great job of managing the situation. You are right it is a switch from covid.

Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ...

Silver1wun comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I'd be more suspicious of Chauvin having had something to do with Floyd's possession of the counterfeit $20... If so, it would furnish a motive and elevate the charge to murder one.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

@Silver1wun Yeah, the owner says Floyd was a well-liked guy, personable, it sounds. Can't imagine a club so big where he wouldn't have had a chance to say hello to him or a reason to, I mean geesh doesn't security usually coordinate?

Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ...

Fred_Snerd comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I've been waiting for that to pan out.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

Yeah, so what does it say if this is in fact a personal thing he had against him? It could have nothing to do with racism at all. Not that it negates the whole concern, but are we rushing to judge situations? Are we protesting an instance of racism that didn't occur? I am opposed to protesting at this time due to various reasons for any of these issues because I think protesting is counterproductive at this point in time. However, the situation that occurred with Breonna Taylor in KY is not acceptable. We need the media and federal or state agencies to step in and give us answers. A "no-knock" warrant is used, or rather WAS used (heard they've been discontinued now) under WHAT circumstance? That sounds like a REALLY DANGEROUS police tool only to be used in the most extreme of situations. What is the status with this? Isn't now a good time to be talking about police tactics? Yes this is somewhat veering off topic but as I learned a little more today, it is just disturbing.

Wondering how it could even be possible for Floyd and Chauvin to not have known each other if they ...

Silver1wun comments on Jun 2, 2020:

I'd be more suspicious of Chauvin having had something to do with Floyd's possession of the counterfeit $20... If so, it would furnish a motive and elevate the charge to murder one.

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

I don't know. I know I heard he had the bill but how it got in his possession, I don't know. If it ties to anything else, I haven't heard.

The USA is very sick! When you get seriously ill, you vomit and have diarrhea to cleanse your ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 1, 2020:

Yeah except we are vomiting and having diarrhea in the midst of a very serious upper respiratory infection that has a 20% chance of making you very ill possibly needing hospitalization and the covid testing center is closed due to protests. Are we working against our own health here? Being bad ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 2, 2020:

@creative51 Yeah or this is well staged by people who are deliberately misrepresenting this. Are you from Detroit? Lived there? How did you get to know about the city/suburb relationship there? I would think residents there, in the city, would have more to protest about than those in the burbs. They are living in much harsher conditions. That doesn't add up to me. What about that tanker in MN? It sounds really suspicious. Who is the guy? How did he get on that bridge? That whole story sounds SUSPICIOUS. Police sent protesters there then tanker gets through? How did it happen? Either the police really screwed up, or I don't know, we are missing details of this story. We need more explanation from the police about how that happened. There could have been confusion, but it still doesn't add up. We need to know more about the driver of the tanker. The protestors said it was leaking gasoline. And what about these people? Look like they are trying to cause problems. https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protests-baltimore-confrontation-orig-mg.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/ https://www.ft.com/content/aa775137-a4ed-4f8b-afa4-da4676e4c7dc

The USA is very sick! When you get seriously ill, you vomit and have diarrhea to cleanse your ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 1, 2020:

Yeah except we are vomiting and having diarrhea in the midst of a very serious upper respiratory infection that has a 20% chance of making you very ill possibly needing hospitalization and the covid testing center is closed due to protests. Are we working against our own health here? Being bad ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 1, 2020:

@creative51 And now Trump is deploying military. I saw this coming. This is what they were talking about " the constitutional framework becomes shaky". Playing in to their hands? These people weren't even from Detroit, but were going there? https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/05/30/leaders-call-out-protesters-from-suburbs-who-participated-in-violent-detroit-george-floyd-protest/

I just passed a crowd of protesters.

Allamanda comments on Jun 1, 2020:

It's always a shock to be a target - no-one will ever get easy with that. But need a MLK? We've had one, and dozens more in their times. We need to think are we saying we need a martyr whose death will calm it all down for a while? Or we need real statesmen who could solve the underlying problems? ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 1, 2020:

I think we need to focus on our dream. MLK gave us hope with those words and it is a very realistic option now, we see. It's who we REALLY are. But HOW do we get there? I think it could encompass a very huge vision. We need to work on our dream. Spell it out. Create a roadmap.

The USA is very sick! When you get seriously ill, you vomit and have diarrhea to cleanse your ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 1, 2020:

Yeah except we are vomiting and having diarrhea in the midst of a very serious upper respiratory infection that has a 20% chance of making you very ill possibly needing hospitalization and the covid testing center is closed due to protests. Are we working against our own health here? Being bad ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 1, 2020:

@creative51 "Asking those who are oppressed to "act" properly when the Donald acts a fool, is a real stretch." This sounds like racist language. Please stop it. It also sounds like you have completely missed my point. We always should only choose1 option - respond to the REAL problem. When your focus is not where it should be- you lose.

The USA is very sick! When you get seriously ill, you vomit and have diarrhea to cleanse your ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 1, 2020:

Yeah except we are vomiting and having diarrhea in the midst of a very serious upper respiratory infection that has a 20% chance of making you very ill possibly needing hospitalization and the covid testing center is closed due to protests. Are we working against our own health here? Being bad ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 1, 2020:

@creative51 When you start hearing the government declaring a political related organization a TERRORIST group, I start having REAL problems. These protests need to STOP NOW. Do not feed the message of terrorism. There will be justice for George Floyd's family, but all that is happening now is shooting ourselves in the foot. We need to work on SUSTAINED progress in the areas of racism and politics. And let's not forget everything else. This pandemic is raging, lives are being lost and we have to choose our battles here. If we don't we will see more and more people die of covid, numbers will be staggering, and who knows how the powers that be will manipulate this to erode or basic rights.

The USA is very sick! When you get seriously ill, you vomit and have diarrhea to cleanse your ...

Flowerwall comments on Jun 1, 2020:

Yeah except we are vomiting and having diarrhea in the midst of a very serious upper respiratory infection that has a 20% chance of making you very ill possibly needing hospitalization and the covid testing center is closed due to protests. Are we working against our own health here? Being bad ...

Flowerwall replies on Jun 1, 2020:

@creative51 Well maybe we should explain that to the person who won't be able to go to work today because they have had their workplace destroyed. Or the person who can't get tested because the centers are closed. Or maybe someone who can't by food, diapers, or medicine because the shop has been looted. And the silent spread of disease that occurred because you know it did. Hope it solved some real problems.