Agnostic.com
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November 2019

Comments

Would you buy it????
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 24, 2019:
No, I can get it free on the Internet.
Quite often, I really feel like I hate dealing with that big world out there.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 24, 2019:
Me too. I live to make the world better for my grand babies. But I'm telling you, most days I know I'm fighting a losing battle. But I cannot give up until I absolutely cannot go on any more. They need me, and I need them.
This is getting out of hand unbelieveable
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 24, 2019:
OMFG, I cry for America.
Curious.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 24, 2019:
Not only would I cringe, but I'd avoid him like the plague. His choice of accessories tells me he has a mindset incompatible with mine.
The 10 year old girl, form Texas, who contracted brain eating amoeba, has died.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 24, 2019:
Seriously, I want to slap people when they say they will pray. Kiss My Ass, I know what that means. It means I'm going to fall asleep. I know cuz I used to do it!
It's nipply..
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 24, 2019:
Well, she has to show off the goods. With all the enhancement she has had, do you suppose she has any feeling in them? Show everyone where they money was spent, best boobs money can buy. I can't imagine her nursing a baby, that would be too human. That outfit just does not say professional, and in fact I think she looks dowdy. Dowdy and sluttish all at the same time, she is so talented.
Christians Who Support Trump Are Morally and Spiritually Superior Than Other Devotees, Pastor Robert...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 24, 2019:
Jeebus these morons... my equality is better than your equality and mom loved me more than you! Freaking punk ass babies.
🤯😱😄🤪😳🙃 Hahahahahahahaha! Donald Trump at UN: President said he deserves Nobel ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 23, 2019:
WE need an eyeroll emoji, he should not even have those words in his filthy pie hole.
[twitter.com]
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 23, 2019:
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting this. That was amazing! What wise council she receive and the outpouring of love makes me so happy!
Might as well be trump!!!!
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 23, 2019:
I really blame Fox News for the demise of my marriage, or for turning my ex into the ultra conservative non thinking (cough) individual he is. Damn, I should have blocked that channel. If I knew then, but then again, maybe it just reinforced his conservatism. When we first met I was amazed at this critical thinking skills. Now I'm amazed at his BS. He admitted picking and choosing what he follows in the buybull. Oy.
My family cannot seem to accept that I no longer believe in god.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 23, 2019:
Educate them, ask them to watch Zeitgeist with you, and a few hundred other documentaries. Ask them to read "Atheists for Dummies." Truly a good guide. Yeah, I used to believe also, I taught buybull studies and was very active in my church. I came fully out of the closet after my divorce, and my kids grew up as skeptics if not outright atheists. Their dad is still a devout uber conservative xian. The kids and dad all live within 20 miles of me. The kids like to do "family" celebrations, so on holidays and birthdays, and sometimes more often dad and I are together, we're amicable. Occasionally it get heated.... He always falls back on the "I'll pray for you" canned answer. Our middle daughter (age 31) just came out and plans to start dating women, he dad is not happy, but praying for her. (Eye roll) Give the family time, it is an adjustment, and just keep loving them. Always, always be willing to listen. Stress the parts that you agree with them, and urge them to explore the differences.
NARRISCHKEIT. - Noun...foolishness, nonsense. Yiddish, from the German narrische (foolish).
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 23, 2019:
It is early and I'm not fully functioning yet. I think that can be twisted some way as to allow narcissistic, and given the reference to Don I think appropriate. It's still damn dark out, remind me why I'm up... Ah, the ultimate foolishness, gotta go to work.
Help please, can somebody tell me what this is and what it's used for?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 23, 2019:
It looks painful!!
Here's the thing: All IMAGINARY things are the same.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 22, 2019:
Yeah, but keep in mind money is imaginary too. We assign a value to small pieces of essentially paper and we trust the other person to have the same value for the paper. According to Yuval Noah Harari that is what helped humans/Homo Sapiens evolve further than other of the homo species. We have shared stories and imagination.
Just in case you have not seen Midnight during the day.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 22, 2019:
First she is adorable. Second, you're a damn good dad, and now a good dog dad as well. Thanks for posting!
If all religion ended tomorrow, what do you think would happen to all the churches,etc.?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 22, 2019:
Some would make good community centers, schools, or homeless shelters. Or food kitchens. Or theaters. I'd rather not see them torn down for the most part, but repurposed.
I have a question -- I recently met a nice, middle-aged woman close to my age (I'm 65) on the bus.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 22, 2019:
Ya know, my own experience is that so many people have episodes of depression it is practically pandemic. I think there are some angry people out there who have underlying depression. I'd say depression is like toenail fungus. You have it, you treat it as needed, you go on with life. If someone chooses not to get to know you because of it, it is their loss. BUT make sure you're not letting it stop you.
I don't think that I am asking too much.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 22, 2019:
Yes, that is what I want. I am not sure it exists.
I'm in mourning for an almost perfect man that I just blocked online.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 22, 2019:
I think about joining POF or one of those sites again, and then I read something like this and ... Nah, I'm good as I am.
I know which I belong in ❤🐶🐕❤
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 22, 2019:
No outfit is complete with cat or dog hair, or any beloved pet.
I know which group I belong in ❤🐶🐕❤
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
No outfit is complete without cat or dog hair.
Families Go Deep in Debt to Stay in the Middle Class - WSJ
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
The American middle class is falling deeper into debt to maintain a middle-class lifestyle. Cars, college, houses and medical care have become steadily more costly, but incomes have been largely stagnant for two decades, despite a recent uptick. Filling the gap between earning and spending is an explosion of finance into nearly every corner of the consumer economy. Consumer debt, not counting mortgages, has climbed to $4 trillion—higher than it has ever been even after adjusting for inflation. Mortgage debt slid after the financial crisis a decade ago but is rebounding. Student debt totaled about $1.5 trillion last year, exceeding all other forms of consumer debt except mortgages. Auto debt is up nearly 40% adjusting for inflation in the last decade to $1.3 trillion. And the average loan for new cars is up an inflation-adjusted 11% in a decade, to $32,187, according to an analysis of data from credit-reporting firm Experian. Unsecured personal loans are back in vogue, the result of competition between technology-savvy lenders and big banks for borrowers and loan volume. The debt surge is partly by design, a byproduct of low borrowing costs the Federal Reserve engineered after the financial crisis to get the economy moving. It has reshaped both borrowers and lenders. Consumers increasingly need it, companies increasingly can’t sell their goods without it, and the economy, which counts on consumer spending for more than two-thirds of GDP, would struggle without a plentiful supply of credit. Changing Portfolio Mortgage balances have accounted for more than two-thirds of U.S. household debt since 2003 but other balances such as auto loans have been growing quickly in recent years. Nonhousing consumer debt surged by $1 trillion in real terms between 2013 and 2019 while housing debt increased by just half that. Sources: Wall Street Journal analysis of New York Federal Reserve's Consumer Credit Panel data; U.S. Federal Reserve's consumer credit data (credit cards) In one sense, the growing consumer debt is a vote of confidence in the future. People borrowing money today expect to have the income tomorrow to pay it back. Consumer debt tends to rise when borrowers feel secure in their jobs. But the debt pile is also an accumulated ledger of economic risk. It should be manageable so long as unemployment remains low. If job losses begin to rise, it would become unsustainable for some share of borrowers, raising chances of an increase in missed payments and lenders writing off unpaid balances. The Fed lowered interest rates on Wednesday because it sees rising risks of a slowdown that could boost unemployment. Average income and expenses, percentagechange over three decades Sources: U.S. Census Bureau (income); the ...
Unique Events
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
Aksarben Rodeo. Now spell Aksarben backwards and you have Nebraska. They were really intellectual out here, still are. We have Arbor Lodge, former home of J. Sterling Morton founder of Arbor day just a bit south of where I live. Omaha has an Oracle, also known as Warren Buffet.
I do not always make the most interesting posts but I have to say this is a great community.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
Thanks!!! I love this community too. It is my sanity and my sounding board.
My mother used to have these, she let us have a piece once, it was nasty. 😬
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
My dad used that stuff, I used to grab some when I got a chance. It was candy but not candy.
What are you?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
I am a tree hugging, recycling, repurposing, reusing, peace loving, earth mother, Hippie Chick Goddess.
Need I say more....
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
Thank you for your service.
Mayhem!!!!!!
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 21, 2019:
OMG, so who put the cameras in my house? Like you're reading my diary.
Those who dispute global warming are either grossly stupid or, even worse, like the poster child for...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 20, 2019:
Currently my book club is reading The Uninhabitable Earth - Life After Warming by David Wallace-Wells. I'm not confident of the world we're leaving my grand children. It makes me very sad for them.
Oh FFS!!! That asshole is so desperate that he's pandering to the delusional, again.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 20, 2019:
Freaking moron our orange ignoramus.
I just read an article about how evangelicals are doing a wonderful job of creating atheists.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 20, 2019:
I am an atheist because I read their book. Several times. And taught it.
Remember when girls used to iron their hair?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 20, 2019:
I tried it once, that was enough.
Some people and events are difficult to deal with, but they can only stress us if we let them.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 20, 2019:
Disagree, some shit is just going to be stressful, and ya gotta endure it. Air pollution is stressful, noise is stressful. I don't choose to be in noisy environments, but that ambulance didn't ask my permission before it blew down my block.
Wow!! have you ever used one of these? 😏
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 20, 2019:
Nope, we never had that stuff.
One of my Evangelical classmates calls himself "a justified sinner" to excuse his homophobia, self ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 20, 2019:
He's an asshole, pure and simple. He "thinks" he is a justified sinner, but that is just saying he KNOWS he is an asshole.. We can only hope that future employers will see his BS and he will be unemployed.
Yes, it really did exist!❤
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 19, 2019:
You can have anything you want at Alice's Restaurant.
About 1 a week.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 18, 2019:
I don't know how many times I've been blocked and I don't care. I am not to everyone's taste, nor is everyone to mine. I've figured out that not everyone has to like me, and if what I say disturbs someone's peace they need to do what they need to do. And I also do what I need to do to preserve my own peace. The only reason I might need to know if someone has blocked me is I have several groups and I need to see what is posted in my group. However most folks who block me don't wanna be in my groups either, so it is all cool. I try to live and let live.
Mmmmm Beto!
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 17, 2019:
Do you think he can still get it up for Mother?
Check this idiot out! I don't even know what to say
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 17, 2019:
Men have finally discovered a form of birth control that is 100% effective. No woman wants that close to her.
Love it...Made me laugh!!!!
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 17, 2019:
But the dogs can run the lab tests.
Has anyone ever had this kind of mayonnaise?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 17, 2019:
EWWWW!
I’ll be at the New York City event, because if we don’t address climate change, finding our ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 17, 2019:
I am currently reading The Uninhabitable Earth - David Wallace-Wells. Oy veh! I'm not feeling good about the world the grandbabies will have.
grawlix 1.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 16, 2019:
I never knew that before!
Manhattan district attorney subpoenas 8 years of Trump tax returns [cnn.com]
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 16, 2019:
Woot!! I hope they get an eyeful!
Joe Biden Is a Phony, Plain and Simple Norman Solomon • 4/24/2019 "Let’s be blunt: As a ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 16, 2019:
I like Joe, but I think it is time to give it up and retire. Old white Christian men don't get to run the show any longer.
So painfully delightful I just had to share - enjoy: [buzzfeed.com]
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 16, 2019:
Wow! Maybe I should have written that novel after all. My HS English teacher said first write the smuttiest novel that you can, it will sell and you can live off the proceeds while you write your masterpiece. Damn, should have listened to him.
Kellyanne Conway suggests Trump is better because he doesn’t “study” situations before making ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 16, 2019:
Oh dear GAWD, that makes so much nonsense. But it explains soooo much!
I do not go on FaceBook very often I rarely read post there anymore.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 16, 2019:
Apparently you have to opt in and it is an app. Since I generally only use FB at home on my laptop this isn't going to be convenient for me. https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/facebook-dating/
I do not go on FaceBook very often I rarely read post there anymore.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 16, 2019:
I have been on FB for 12 years. I joined as a college student when FB was just beginning and limited to just college email address. Yes I was a very non-traditional college student. I have not noticed any new messages from anyone not on my friends list. Should I feel neglected?
peccadillo--a small, rather unimportant offense or sin
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
Good word!
I planted 3 or 4 new daylilies this past Spring, all selected for having an "eye" and for being a ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
Beautiful!!
So what are some peoples strategy to keep things organized?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
Get rid of the junk!! If you haven't used it in more than a year get rid of it.
I have stripped my thai pepper and pequine pepper plants several times and kept putting them in ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
Do you have the time and energy to recan? If so do, If not, take your chances or have some parties!
I asked a good while ago, in a different group, what it means when a cat raises it's head and closes...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
I am told that the cat is sending you good vibes. My cats do it when they're being affectionate. It is a sign the cat thinks you're safe and they feel good with you.
How many times have I said that?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
But remember.... No matter where you go, there you are.
Yesterday afternoon I was at a Mediterranean fete.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
I love "ethnic" foods of all types. It sounds like a fun time.
I find it amazing that there is a small segment of women that fall hard for guys like that.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 15, 2019:
I total don't get it. Why do you fall for a proven track record of mayhem. Leopard don't change their spots. I used to have an acquaintance in an online divorce group. She was upset that her soon to be ex was treating her just like he was treating his other "crazy" exes. Yeah, go figure.
Moved over to Silly, Random Fun.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 14, 2019:
There is no link or anything...
"Maybe You Don’t Know What Love Is" -- on conditional vs.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 14, 2019:
This is a good article. I've been used a time or two, so I'm maybe hyper alert for "conditions." They weren't always bad conditions, but I wasn't willing to accept the conditions. It wasn't building towards a more fulfilling relationship so I ended it. I had a gentleman who only wanted to come over and watch TV, it was Downton Abby. He was going out with friends and visiting family but he only wanted me for Downton Abby. Not much of any conversation or anything, just watch TV. I wanted more, he didn't, I ended it. It comes down to I want to be with someone who wants to be with me just because we like to be with each other. No conditions, no parameters. We just enjoy each other.
We have had a lot of rain this year.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 14, 2019:
Sorry, not even a smidgen of an idea.
He thinks his desire is a powerful magnet. On what planet?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 14, 2019:
Wishful thinking.
Who is America's enemy?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 14, 2019:
I shared that, thanks!
I've not been on Agnostic much this week.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 14, 2019:
Glad you're back and good to hear a good report of the VA.
Fact or fiction😆
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 14, 2019:
It's crazy, the government is a circus of clowns and elephants and bad plumbing.
[agnostic.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 13, 2019:
I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, but... she says I identify as a humanist. I'm spiritual but do not believe in any specific belief system BUT in her details she says believes in Gabriel... and 100% certain there is a God.. Sorry, I'm a member of the American Humanist Association and that is not a belief we have. Yeah NO. Nice boobs, she is really putting them out there. The name makes me go hmmmm. Efya, really. F Ya. Or is it just me. Pictures don't pop on tin eye. But I do see a scammer potential here.
zaftig--(of a woman) having a fully rounded figure, plump
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 13, 2019:
I have used that term in dating profiles in the past, and I kept having to explain it. I kept thinking, you're online, google it. Not impressed with those responses.
[agnostic.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 13, 2019:
Wow CB!! You do good and FAST work!
TODAY'S QUOTE "Lord God, let us live, I beg You, I want to live! I've experienced so little of ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 13, 2019:
That is very powerful. And yes, we are living in those times again with children in cages. No child should be caged, ever! And here we are again. We are not a compassionate nation, we are not living up to our potential and to what is inscribed on the base of the Statue of Liberty. We need a huge change, I hope to see it in my lifetime.
Another reason to legalize
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 12, 2019:
Marijuana makes family gatherings safer.
Sapiophile--someone who is attracted to intelligent people
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 12, 2019:
That is me!
I expect that some of you have heard of psychologist Stanley Milgram and his "authority " experiment...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 12, 2019:
Stockholm syndrome
Yup...I need work on this!!!
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 12, 2019:
I recommend regular pedicures.
A message putin's puppet.....
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 12, 2019:
He's totally right!
Open ended question for y'all.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
I have learned to be content on my own. If I find someone, fine. If I don't, I'm still fine.
They need eye drops!
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
Gotta pray to the porcelain god
I am so in love and want this baby
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
Too cute! His name should be Dobby
Donald Trump does not like spies, thinks they get in the way of his ‘personal relationships’ ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
We need an eye roll emoji.
Tennessee lawmaker calls for removal of higher education to cut off ‘liberal breeding ground’ | ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
A friend was discussing that people with college degrees are having fewer children, and those with less education are breeding like rabbits. Boggles the mind.
The bullying continues.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
Are we winning yet?
Those people can leave!
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
I don't associate willingly with folks that don't like cats. Cats are the very best of people.
[agnostic.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 11, 2019:
Jeebus, that was a short tenure!! Woot!
[agnostic.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
He is no longer available!!
I went through so many changes last year that it was overwhelming.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
You end up with you no matter how many changes and changing who you are is really hard.
Interesting article [psychologytoday.com]
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
And women are tired of dealing with BS. Easier to live alone than to take on a full grown adult child.
True for trump and evangelical supporters
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
That is so spot on!
This Friday the 13th🌕
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
I don't plan to be here for that next one, I will need to get out to enjoy this one.
Difficult to do in the late hours but I'm working on it.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
I needed that today.
Good Morning Everyone! Another busy morning.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
If I could afford to retire I would, hence I work. I didn't get fired today, so I will be back to work tomorrow.
I turned 65 today, and this is how I feel this morning
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
LOL, ouch. Happy Trip Around the Sun!!
Are you a collector?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
I only collected to take them back to the store to get the deposit.
Twitter Users Find A Way To Get Chrissy Teigen’s Filthy Trump Nickname To Trend [huffpost.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
This is PERFECT, and also going to cause trouble for me. I am likely to say it in front of the grands, and the adorable 2.5 year old is likely to catch it, and repeat it, and then we will all laugh and her parents are going to shoot someone, likely me. So worth it!
Good Morning my PEEPS
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
I'd add still employed, but some days I'm not sure that is a good thing.
As is the custom now on receipt, on reaching level 8.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
Looks good on ya!
Everyone's favorite huckster, Anti-Fred, is back. How long do you think he will last this time?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
Creative spelling.
You know its true.. We used that shit for damn near anything and everything.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
My step witch used to eat it. She wanted me to eat it as well (I was in my mid to late teens), and I stood up to her and told her no way in hell. Read the damn label woman. I do remember liking the sensation on my skin when I was a kid. I remember my mom rubbing it on my chest and covering it with a soft cloth. I also used it on my kids. Good stuff.
What is the best kind of pie or dessert?
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 10, 2019:
French silk. I might not share. For me anything chocolate is a trigger for gluttony. I might do immoral or illegal thing for Rocky Road ice cream. Polio sucks. I hope the anti-vaxxers don't cause a return of polio in the US. That would be a nightmare. Your grandma sounds like a gem!
Hi going in the chatroom at 8:24 pm est USA if anyone is around.
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 9, 2019:
7:31 PM CDT and I'm thinking seriously about going to bed. Y'all have fun.
My first post in this group is not strickly speaking totally about 45 but it certainly is aimed in ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 9, 2019:
She is one hot and BAD Woman, and I love her! And yes, not strictly Drumpf but as it is Anti 45 it fits.
Question: In the very near future, highly responsive and realistic robotic sex workers will be ...
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 9, 2019:
@our_existence, this does not belong in the Pinata.
"Undercover" — Valerie Plame for Congress - YouTube
HippieChick58 comments on Sep 9, 2019:
I am in love, totally. I want her... to kick ass and take names. She has all the balls she needs to do the job.

Photos

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Grandson! Born April 2018
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August 2017
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1976. HS picture
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1980 in Germany.
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1959, I was a year old.
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Xena
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Zelda
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Early 80s
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Xena and Zelda
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2010 California
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Lap quilt made 2016
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Lap quilt made from left over fabric from previous quilt, 2017
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Quilt for grandson 2018
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"Sister Quilt" made for daughter. 3 quilts made at the same time, all the same fabrics and same type of blocks, just different layout and different color bindings. Completed 2018
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"Sister Quilt" made for daughter. 3 quilts made at the same time, all the same fabrics and same type of blocks, just different layout and different color bindings. Completed 2018
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Quilt on my bed made 2016. Wall painted ombre shades of pink, also in 2016
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"Sister Quilt" made for daughter. 3 quilts made at the same time, all the same fabrics and same type of blocks, just different layout and different color bindings. Completed 2018
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This is the current male love of my life, he's 8 months old and soon will call me Grammy.
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Jan 2019. Quilt for 2 year old granddaughter, just learning her colors. Her mama wanted it to be a rainbow quilt.
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My Christmas tree for 2019, and 2020, and 2021... and beyond!
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Quilt for Grandson's first big boy bed. July 2020
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New quilt for the guest bed, late 2020
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New quilt for the guest bed.
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January 13, 2021 My newest and smallest grandchild. She arrived 5 weeks early and is now 2.5 weeks old and is less than 7 pounds. I've never held such a small baby before. She is quite perfect and very amazing. I love being a Grammy.
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Grand #3. Born Dec 2020
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Completed May 30, 2021
Agnostic, Atheist, Humanist, Secularist, Skeptic, Freethinker
Open to meeting men
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