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The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot that was a bunch of claptrap. keep reading the thoughts of others because yours are stuck.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot that was a bunch of claptrap. keep reading the thoughts of others because yours are stuck.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot that article has nothing to do with a major change in neuron density? While I may be accused of confirmation bias you are likewise guilty of pessimism and failure to read the source. I'd say you need to open up your mind a bit more and read a wider area of interrelated fields. I'd start with Dr. Norman Doidge's book on neuroplasticity and brain evolution "The Brain that Changes Itself" along with Yuval Harari's "Sapiens".
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot that article has nothing to do with a major change in neuron density? While I may be accused of confirmation bias you are likewise guilty of pessimism and failure to read the source. I'd say you need to open up your mind a bit more and read a wider area of interrelated fields. I'd start with Dr. Norman Doidge's book on neuroplasticity and brain evolution "The Brain that Changes Itself" along with Yuval Harari's "Sapiens".
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot here's an idea ... open your mind up to new possibilities for a moment instead of just trying to poop on everything.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/trio-genes-supercharged-human-brain-evolution
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot here's an idea ... open your mind up to new possibilities for a moment instead of just trying to poop on everything.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/trio-genes-supercharged-human-brain-evolution
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot really? I open up and actually engage the discussion and you demean my work? It's not a hodgepodge of anything. have you never studied dimensional space? our perceptions are limited to 2D with subtle cues to recognize depth. the point was when you jump up a level your perceptions must also change to take in the added dimension. have you ever seen a picture of a tesseract? they draw dotted lines to indicate the backside of the box we can't see whereas if we were actually afforded 4th dimension senses we could perceive all the way around it. It's a perch of objectivity and discussed by both Einstein and Faraday (who saw in pics without knowing the math similar to me - my math sucks). If you examine my subjects above you'll find my views are at the very edge of modern scientific knowledge in the fields. dont belittle me there.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot really? I open up and actually engage the discussion and you demean my work? It's not a hodgepodge of anything. have you never studied dimensional space? our perceptions are limited to 2D with subtle cues to recognize depth. the point was when you jump up a level your perceptions must also change to take in the added dimension. have you ever seen a picture of a tesseract? they draw dotted lines to indicate the backside of the box we can't see whereas if we were actually afforded 4th dimension senses we could perceive all the way around it. It's a perch of objectivity and discussed by both Einstein and Faraday (who saw in pics without knowing the math similar to me - my math sucks). If you examine my subjects above you'll find my views are at the very edge of modern scientific knowledge in the fields. dont belittle me there.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot on a side note this is extra interesting because I am also carrying on this same conversation with a physics professor in India right now. He's asking me about the factors in Schrodinger's balancing equation and it's really cool to see how all these different fields interact. Some day we will put all this together and figure it out. There is a physical law or rule that makes all this happen. I dont believe in mysticism.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot on a side note this is extra interesting because I am also carrying on this same conversation with a physics professor in India right now. He's asking me about the factors in Schrodinger's balancing equation and it's really cool to see how all these different fields interact. Some day we will put all this together and figure it out. There is a physical law or rule that makes all this happen. I dont believe in mysticism.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot I have really worked on that threshold issue you discuss. While I have no problems black boxing the operations overall, at some point I have to know some generalities of the ops to know if I am on the right path at least.
My first thought was brain structure. I studied the neuropathy of corvids (crows, ravens, magpies) and other social creatures who exhibit behavior that shows empathy. I see this development as one like breaking the dimensional barrier from 2D to 3D. To ascertain status of the seer we need an objective viewpoint above 'the forest". Kind of like envisioning the tesseract with only visual cues allowing us to perceive depth. In social and general psychology we place ourselves in the shoes of the person we are communicating with in order to ascertain effective communication. The mirror neurons provide this feature theoretically, and philosophically I contend it is evidence of the self. At least I believe the key lies there. So my research continued into human neurology and archaeobiology.
Somewhere in the homo sapien lineage before orangutans split from the common ancestry early hominids gained an extra scrap of mitochondrial DNA. I think the particular sequence is in the STEM21 section or whatever they call it. It was inactive but we have found it in common fossilized DNA from pre-homo heidelbergensis hominids. At some point AFTER the orangutans split off that DNA became active. It is the sequence that makes an amino acid which causes stem cells to make brain neurons. While the cranium size remained constant, neuron density increased anywhere from 6-8 times. I think this is and was where we crossed the threshold to potential awareness as a species. But I certainly respect your criticism and inquiry here. It's an unresolved but fascinating subject.
I recently read an article about neuron firing actually causing a burst of light. That presents some rather interesting variables to consider. I think I am on the right path and will keep researching. But all the while this narrative is supported fully by writings made 3,000 years ago plus.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot I have really worked on that threshold issue you discuss. While I have no problems black boxing the operations overall, at some point I have to know some generalities of the ops to know if I am on the right path at least.
My first thought was brain structure. I studied the neuropathy of corvids (crows, ravens, magpies) and other social creatures who exhibit behavior that shows empathy. I see this development as one like breaking the dimensional barrier from 2D to 3D. To ascertain status of the seer we need an objective viewpoint above 'the forest". Kind of like envisioning the tesseract with only visual cues allowing us to perceive depth. In social and general psychology we place ourselves in the shoes of the person we are communicating with in order to ascertain effective communication. The mirror neurons provide this feature theoretically, and philosophically I contend it is evidence of the self. At least I believe the key lies there. So my research continued into human neurology and archaeobiology.
Somewhere in the homo sapien lineage before orangutans split from the common ancestry early hominids gained an extra scrap of mitochondrial DNA. I think the particular sequence is in the STEM21 section or whatever they call it. It was inactive but we have found it in common fossilized DNA from pre-homo heidelbergensis hominids. At some point AFTER the orangutans split off that DNA became active. It is the sequence that makes an amino acid which causes stem cells to make brain neurons. While the cranium size remained constant, neuron density increased anywhere from 6-8 times. I think this is and was where we crossed the threshold to potential awareness as a species. But I certainly respect your criticism and inquiry here. It's an unresolved but fascinating subject.
I recently read an article about neuron firing actually causing a burst of light. That presents some rather interesting variables to consider. I think I am on the right path and will keep researching. But all the while this narrative is supported fully by writings made 3,000 years ago plus.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot Actually western science is far behind that of the Indian culture when it comes to consciousness. The present fad over mindfulness meditation comes from hindu scholarship over 1 thousand years old.
The issue you present about consciousness not being present outside of the present mind is the exact issue tthat ancient vedic scholars use to show that it DOES in fact exist. The entire exercise of meditation was created for focus in the attempt to isolate consciousness from the body. Our awareness is divided into 3 levels by western science with a 4th added by Hindu: waking, dream state, dreamless state, and turiya (which literally means 4th in sanskrit). All 4 of these were also addressed in the katha upanishad a few thousand years ago to show that consciousness WAS present at those times. I think you should check out the Vivekachudamani by Swami Shamkara written in the 8th century.
I do appreciate the fact that you were in the proper ballpark. Most people aren't even close. At least we were both at Wrigley.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot Actually western science is far behind that of the Indian culture when it comes to consciousness. The present fad over mindfulness meditation comes from hindu scholarship over 1 thousand years old.
The issue you present about consciousness not being present outside of the present mind is the exact issue tthat ancient vedic scholars use to show that it DOES in fact exist. The entire exercise of meditation was created for focus in the attempt to isolate consciousness from the body. Our awareness is divided into 3 levels by western science with a 4th added by Hindu: waking, dream state, dreamless state, and turiya (which literally means 4th in sanskrit). All 4 of these were also addressed in the katha upanishad a few thousand years ago to show that consciousness WAS present at those times. I think you should check out the Vivekachudamani by Swami Shamkara written in the 8th century.
I do appreciate the fact that you were in the proper ballpark. Most people aren't even close. At least we were both at Wrigley.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot OK I'll bite. I believe that:
- the substratum of space IS consciousness; and
- it is all one in that it's interconnected; and
- a particle offering a 0 to be met with a 1 is immediately connected via consciousness thus violating but exceeding the EPR paradox; and
- whatever unifying theory is finally deduced will be
binary.
These are also the same tenets supported in the narrative of the Isa, Katha, Chandogya, and Mandukya upanishads. These scripts exist in sanskrit from 500 BC regarding memorized stories from thousands of years earlier. For instance, the Rigveda references geologic events regarding rivers in the Hindustan region known to date back to 5,000 BC and some references to the last ice age over 10,000 years ago. In Hinduism this consciousness is called "brahman". In Buddhism it is called "the self".
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot OK I'll bite. I believe that:
- the substratum of space IS consciousness; and
- it is all one in that it's interconnected; and
- a particle offering a 0 to be met with a 1 is immediately connected via consciousness thus violating but exceeding the EPR paradox; and
- whatever unifying theory is finally deduced will be
binary.
These are also the same tenets supported in the narrative of the Isa, Katha, Chandogya, and Mandukya upanishads. These scripts exist in sanskrit from 500 BC regarding memorized stories from thousands of years earlier. For instance, the Rigveda references geologic events regarding rivers in the Hindustan region known to date back to 5,000 BC and some references to the last ice age over 10,000 years ago. In Hinduism this consciousness is called "brahman". In Buddhism it is called "the self".
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot your computer doesn't have a dictionary?
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot your computer doesn't have a dictionary?
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot and I'm gonna link a middle finger at your "woo" comment. dont criticize if you have nothing to proffer yourself.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Happy_Killbot and I'm gonna link a middle finger at your "woo" comment. dont criticize if you have nothing to proffer yourself.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Bobby9 I have no problems living on a theory.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Bobby9 I have no problems living on a theory.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Bobby9 you're missing the point entirely. on purpose I s'pose.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
@Bobby9 you're missing the point entirely. on purpose I s'pose.
The nature of our present physical form
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
I disagree. we can't reach the speed of light but we accept Einstein's constant. there are quite a few things we know by theory only but we know there is some physical rule we just can't explain yet. I believe in the seer. that also corresponds to double slit results.
Eldovis comments on Sep 7, 2019:
consciousness as far as we know is the property of a healthy brain, any other interpretations are empty opinions.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 7, 2019:
I disagree. we can't reach the speed of light but we accept Einstein's constant. there are quite a few things we know by theory only but we know there is some physical rule we just can't explain yet. I believe in the seer. that also corresponds to double slit results.
Is the RDIF chip sign of end times?
JeffMesser comments on Sep 5, 2019:
every current event that happened in the 60's and 70's and early 80's was the end of humanity according to some segment of the Baptist church.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 5, 2019:
@Paul4747 exactly LOL. I'm sure it's been just after whoever printed the first copy of the revelations.
JeffMesser comments on Sep 5, 2019:
every current event that happened in the 60's and 70's and early 80's was the end of humanity according to some segment of the Baptist church.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 5, 2019:
@Paul4747 exactly LOL. I'm sure it's been just after whoever printed the first copy of the revelations.
Conversion therapy leader McKrae Game comes out as gay
AmelieMatisse comments on Sep 4, 2019:
No Surprise at all. I still think Pence is closeted. I truly believe that if this guy is sorry for what he did and wants to pay back society for his bullshit then he needs to do a speaking engagement around the country explaining everything he did that was wrong and also outing these programs in ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 4, 2019:
I believe Pence is also.
AmelieMatisse comments on Sep 4, 2019:
No Surprise at all. I still think Pence is closeted. I truly believe that if this guy is sorry for what he did and wants to pay back society for his bullshit then he needs to do a speaking engagement around the country explaining everything he did that was wrong and also outing these programs in ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 4, 2019:
I believe Pence is also.
My loving and caring parents are actively trying to pass down Christianity to my little, ...
JeffMesser comments on Sep 4, 2019:
I would teach them christianity like this: there was a guy named Jesus. He taught that we should love one another.
thats all.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 4, 2019:
@Falsifiable1 you're missing the point entirely. if you don't fill in the blank beforehand then you let culture do it.
JeffMesser comments on Sep 4, 2019:
I would teach them christianity like this: there was a guy named Jesus. He taught that we should love one another.
thats all.
JeffMesser replies on Sep 4, 2019:
@Falsifiable1 you're missing the point entirely. if you don't fill in the blank beforehand then you let culture do it.
What are your thoughts on people who suffer from substance addictions?
Varn comments on Sep 2, 2019:
With time and observation, I suspect there’s a root cause. It’s not that the substance ‘feels so good’ they can’t stop, it provides an escape from a deeper pain, most often caused by mental illness. I now view it as self medicating, if by alcohol, nicotine, or narcotics of any kind....
JeffMesser replies on Sep 2, 2019:
You're completely neglecting to consider the effects on behavior when the brain is altered by addiction. The ONLY halfway-legitimate purpose being served by punishing people whose brains have been damaged by addiction is to protect the public. Punishing any creature for its' brain being miswired is cruel and inhumane. Try to stop breathing. When you wake up you'll find that your body took over - because your brain told it to. It IS the same thing, right on the cusp of autonomic. You have to treat the CAUSE, not the symptom.
Varn comments on Sep 2, 2019:
With time and observation, I suspect there’s a root cause. It’s not that the substance ‘feels so good’ they can’t stop, it provides an escape from a deeper pain, most often caused by mental illness. I now view it as self medicating, if by alcohol, nicotine, or narcotics of any kind....
JeffMesser replies on Sep 2, 2019:
You're completely neglecting to consider the effects on behavior when the brain is altered by addiction. The ONLY halfway-legitimate purpose being served by punishing people whose brains have been damaged by addiction is to protect the public. Punishing any creature for its' brain being miswired is cruel and inhumane. Try to stop breathing. When you wake up you'll find that your body took over - because your brain told it to. It IS the same thing, right on the cusp of autonomic. You have to treat the CAUSE, not the symptom.
What are your thoughts on people who suffer from substance addictions?
MakeItGood comments on Sep 2, 2019:
There is addiction, then there is habit, so I hear. There is a physical and pyschological component, so I hear.
I've never done drugs, so I have no experience understanding addiction. I do have bad habits, but can spend a month breaking them with some discomfort.
When an addicted person ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 2, 2019:
Your questions are honest. In criminal law we have the concept of "intent" to consider these issues. Some crimes require only a finding of general intent to make them actionable. That is the defendant meant to do the physical action that led to the harm - if not intending to cause that actual harm itself. This is actually the MIDDLE step of intent with strict liability being the first. Under strict liability the action constitutes a crime whether you intended for it to cause harm or not. This is reserved for very minor offenses ... usually with only fines as the punishment. So you have strict liability (easy punishment), general intent (medium punishment), and then specific intent for the worst offenses. In a specific intent offense you must not only intend to cause the action but also create the specific harm that occurred. I offer these to you to show that in the US legal systems addiction is a very reasonable defense to felonious crimes. There are some specific statutes and situations to address it, but breaking up ones' ability to understand the ultimate consequences of their actions separates one from criminal liability. Of course, the felony murder rule and a few other examples overcome the lack of intent - but generally addiction is a justifiable reason to sever liability.
MakeItGood comments on Sep 2, 2019:
There is addiction, then there is habit, so I hear. There is a physical and pyschological component, so I hear.
I've never done drugs, so I have no experience understanding addiction. I do have bad habits, but can spend a month breaking them with some discomfort.
When an addicted person ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 2, 2019:
Your questions are honest. In criminal law we have the concept of "intent" to consider these issues. Some crimes require only a finding of general intent to make them actionable. That is the defendant meant to do the physical action that led to the harm - if not intending to cause that actual harm itself. This is actually the MIDDLE step of intent with strict liability being the first. Under strict liability the action constitutes a crime whether you intended for it to cause harm or not. This is reserved for very minor offenses ... usually with only fines as the punishment. So you have strict liability (easy punishment), general intent (medium punishment), and then specific intent for the worst offenses. In a specific intent offense you must not only intend to cause the action but also create the specific harm that occurred. I offer these to you to show that in the US legal systems addiction is a very reasonable defense to felonious crimes. There are some specific statutes and situations to address it, but breaking up ones' ability to understand the ultimate consequences of their actions separates one from criminal liability. Of course, the felony murder rule and a few other examples overcome the lack of intent - but generally addiction is a justifiable reason to sever liability.
What are your thoughts on people who suffer from substance addictions?
MrBeelzeebubbles comments on Sep 2, 2019:
Apart from the fact that harm minimisation/treatment works and punishment doesn't...
Ok, a few things about addiction. My main personal experience is with opiates. Heroin was ridiculously cheap and pure in Sydney during the 90's, and I watched a whole bunch of my mates fuck their lives up for, on ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 2, 2019:
these are very astute observations. I've been dealing with addicts professionally for close to 30 years and your experience reflects my own. In the States we approach this problem all wrong - but mainly because we want to turn it into some capitalistic enterprise instead of having empathy and helping people.
MrBeelzeebubbles comments on Sep 2, 2019:
Apart from the fact that harm minimisation/treatment works and punishment doesn't...
Ok, a few things about addiction. My main personal experience is with opiates. Heroin was ridiculously cheap and pure in Sydney during the 90's, and I watched a whole bunch of my mates fuck their lives up for, on ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 2, 2019:
these are very astute observations. I've been dealing with addicts professionally for close to 30 years and your experience reflects my own. In the States we approach this problem all wrong - but mainly because we want to turn it into some capitalistic enterprise instead of having empathy and helping people.
You are comletely alone in the Universe.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 1, 2019:
@Rodatheist you're certainly welcome to ask. there's no guarantee I will have an answer. many things I black box and leave the understanding to later if I feel I already know the result or conclusion.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Sep 1, 2019:
@Rodatheist you're certainly welcome to ask. there's no guarantee I will have an answer. many things I black box and leave the understanding to later if I feel I already know the result or conclusion.
Saying "You're too fat" is rude. "You're too thin" is okay?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 31, 2019:
get rid of your egos and none of it will matter. Leggo your ego.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@LiterateHiker nothing personal. getting rid of one's ego is the first step to stopping suffering. vanity and concerns about perceptions are such illusory, temporary concerns. why further burden yourself in life? don't rely on such temporary, transitional things for your pleasures and satisfactions. seek truth.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 31, 2019:
get rid of your egos and none of it will matter. Leggo your ego.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@LiterateHiker nothing personal. getting rid of one's ego is the first step to stopping suffering. vanity and concerns about perceptions are such illusory, temporary concerns. why further burden yourself in life? don't rely on such temporary, transitional things for your pleasures and satisfactions. seek truth.
Would you have a wedding in a place of worship, officiated by a religious leader? Why or why not?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 30, 2019:
weddings are for women. whatever the woman wants is fine by me.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@Winkiedink54 meh it's all good. namaste
JeffMesser comments on Aug 30, 2019:
weddings are for women. whatever the woman wants is fine by me.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@Winkiedink54 meh it's all good. namaste
Would you have a wedding in a place of worship, officiated by a religious leader? Why or why not?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 30, 2019:
weddings are for women. whatever the woman wants is fine by me.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@Winkiedink54 well you're certainly entitled to feel that way and I see your point. But in the culture under which I grew the wedding IS mostly a matter of what the woman wants. Much more so than the man. I am firmly egalitarian. I picketed and marched for PP funding. I am a friend to the LGBTQ community. And despite all of those things I still believe this way. I'm not offended if other men feel otherwise. I just know most of the men I know agree with me.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 30, 2019:
weddings are for women. whatever the woman wants is fine by me.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@Winkiedink54 well you're certainly entitled to feel that way and I see your point. But in the culture under which I grew the wedding IS mostly a matter of what the woman wants. Much more so than the man. I am firmly egalitarian. I picketed and marched for PP funding. I am a friend to the LGBTQ community. And despite all of those things I still believe this way. I'm not offended if other men feel otherwise. I just know most of the men I know agree with me.
You are comletely alone in the Universe.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@Rodatheist so your standard of purpose is what we use it for? OK. First, we use it for objectivity. That is actually the entire basis behind that old saying "not seeing the forest for the trees". Objectivity provides a viewing position that mimics a dimensional advance.
Turiya is also the self constant throughout the 4 stages of consciousness. The word actually means "4th".
Most importantly, however, is the role consciousness provides as awareness. This makes it the probability change agent in our perceived reality. Current theoretical physics supports the "Biocentrism" view espoused by professor Robert Lanza and Physicist Bob Berman in the book of the same name. This just furthers the oft-repeated double slot experiment and explains how quantum entanglement does not violate the EPR paradox by breaking the speed of light. Ironically this view of awareness corresponds to the "substratum" analysis of the Isa upanishad which was part of the Yajurveda composed over 5,000 years ago and written in sanskrit around 2,500 years ago. These theories were furthered by the Hindu wise-man Sri Adi Shankara in the 8th century AD in his work Vivekachudamani. These views established the idea of monism and advaita vedanta while also accounting for the physics of the universe as defined by Einstein and his peers.
If you have questions I'd recommend the Lanza book as well as the isa, katha, chandogya, and mandukya upanishads.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 31, 2019:
@Rodatheist so your standard of purpose is what we use it for? OK. First, we use it for objectivity. That is actually the entire basis behind that old saying "not seeing the forest for the trees". Objectivity provides a viewing position that mimics a dimensional advance.
Turiya is also the self constant throughout the 4 stages of consciousness. The word actually means "4th".
Most importantly, however, is the role consciousness provides as awareness. This makes it the probability change agent in our perceived reality. Current theoretical physics supports the "Biocentrism" view espoused by professor Robert Lanza and Physicist Bob Berman in the book of the same name. This just furthers the oft-repeated double slot experiment and explains how quantum entanglement does not violate the EPR paradox by breaking the speed of light. Ironically this view of awareness corresponds to the "substratum" analysis of the Isa upanishad which was part of the Yajurveda composed over 5,000 years ago and written in sanskrit around 2,500 years ago. These theories were furthered by the Hindu wise-man Sri Adi Shankara in the 8th century AD in his work Vivekachudamani. These views established the idea of monism and advaita vedanta while also accounting for the physics of the universe as defined by Einstein and his peers.
If you have questions I'd recommend the Lanza book as well as the isa, katha, chandogya, and mandukya upanishads.
My religions professor is very adamant about convincing us atheists are just as religious as ...
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid why? because brit xtians came in and called them heathens? with the gokul the hindus had a literacy rate over 50% in the early 1800's ... and after the so-called "modern" xtian brits came in and destroyed temples and mosques that number dropped to below 10% 2 generations later. The caste system is an antiquated tool of the past that is obviously a human rights dilemma ... but with the puranas and brahmanas the hindus are able to update and revise their canon unlike other belief sets. the caste system seems like some rather low hanging fruit for a multi-doctoral theological academic like yourself. why don't you bust out some sanskrit so I can marvel at your knowledge!! jagat mitthya brahman satyam prajnaman brahman tat tram asi.
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid why? because brit xtians came in and called them heathens? with the gokul the hindus had a literacy rate over 50% in the early 1800's ... and after the so-called "modern" xtian brits came in and destroyed temples and mosques that number dropped to below 10% 2 generations later. The caste system is an antiquated tool of the past that is obviously a human rights dilemma ... but with the puranas and brahmanas the hindus are able to update and revise their canon unlike other belief sets. the caste system seems like some rather low hanging fruit for a multi-doctoral theological academic like yourself. why don't you bust out some sanskrit so I can marvel at your knowledge!! jagat mitthya brahman satyam prajnaman brahman tat tram asi.
My religions professor is very adamant about convincing us atheists are just as religious as ...
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid like what? Ayam brahmasmi? Vivekachudamani??
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid like what? Ayam brahmasmi? Vivekachudamani??
My religions professor is very adamant about convincing us atheists are just as religious as ...
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid I couldnt care less about your degrees dude. good for you. now exhibit some of that knowledge and say something "knowing" about vedic religions. because including vedanta or buddhism with the abrahamic religions is like mixing oil and water.
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid I couldnt care less about your degrees dude. good for you. now exhibit some of that knowledge and say something "knowing" about vedic religions. because including vedanta or buddhism with the abrahamic religions is like mixing oil and water.
My religions professor is very adamant about convincing us atheists are just as religious as ...
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid so you belittle their beliefs and canon, but then for support you "cite" scripture? I'd need to see your CV before I accept you as a legitimate source.
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid so you belittle their beliefs and canon, but then for support you "cite" scripture? I'd need to see your CV before I accept you as a legitimate source.
My religions professor is very adamant about convincing us atheists are just as religious as ...
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid how is their grouping of "us" together any different than the grouping you are doing of the "faithfool"? they are both born of general ignorance about the respective sets of beliefs or lack thereof. I am certainly familiar enough with orthodox hinduism and nastika hinduism (buddhism, jainism) to know that faith is an issue in abrahamic belief sets and not vedic. the scientific method actually originated in Hindustan long before ancient greece. evangelicals and ignorant westerners think that all eastern religions are the same and all beliefs that involve "gods" use faith as a tool in bhakti. they don't. but they would actually have to learn something to figure that out.
PhillipWalker comments on Aug 24, 2019:
We can be adamant and opinionated about religion! But to be religious can also mean to worship and that doesn't apply to us.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Triphid how is their grouping of "us" together any different than the grouping you are doing of the "faithfool"? they are both born of general ignorance about the respective sets of beliefs or lack thereof. I am certainly familiar enough with orthodox hinduism and nastika hinduism (buddhism, jainism) to know that faith is an issue in abrahamic belief sets and not vedic. the scientific method actually originated in Hindustan long before ancient greece. evangelicals and ignorant westerners think that all eastern religions are the same and all beliefs that involve "gods" use faith as a tool in bhakti. they don't. but they would actually have to learn something to figure that out.
You are comletely alone in the Universe.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Rodatheist If your question is so easy then why don't you answer mine? what is the purpose of a rock?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Rodatheist If your question is so easy then why don't you answer mine? what is the purpose of a rock?
You are comletely alone in the Universe.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Rodatheist ok then please tell me ... what is the purpose of a rock?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Rodatheist ok then please tell me ... what is the purpose of a rock?
You are comletely alone in the Universe.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Rodatheist the purpose? what is the purpose of a tree? what is the purpose of a carbon molecule?? that question is weird.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 30, 2019:
@Rodatheist the purpose? what is the purpose of a tree? what is the purpose of a carbon molecule?? that question is weird.
What exactly was the reason for Europeans toaccept a god from the desert over the local gods who ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 28, 2019:
It wasn't just that Constantine made christianity the "official" religion of the Roman empire (he did), but he also sought uniformity of the faith. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of little isolated communities where some version of the abrahamic faith existed - many which had their specific ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Red_Cat that particular religion is not my bailiwick. I enjoy the history behind it all much more.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 28, 2019:
It wasn't just that Constantine made christianity the "official" religion of the Roman empire (he did), but he also sought uniformity of the faith. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of little isolated communities where some version of the abrahamic faith existed - many which had their specific ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Red_Cat that particular religion is not my bailiwick. I enjoy the history behind it all much more.
What exactly was the reason for Europeans toaccept a god from the desert over the local gods who ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 28, 2019:
It wasn't just that Constantine made christianity the "official" religion of the Roman empire (he did), but he also sought uniformity of the faith. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of little isolated communities where some version of the abrahamic faith existed - many which had their specific ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Red_Cat I am not a theologian. As far as I know it's only available in the Vulgate.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 28, 2019:
It wasn't just that Constantine made christianity the "official" religion of the Roman empire (he did), but he also sought uniformity of the faith. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of little isolated communities where some version of the abrahamic faith existed - many which had their specific ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Red_Cat I am not a theologian. As far as I know it's only available in the Vulgate.
What exactly was the reason for Europeans toaccept a god from the desert over the local gods who ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 28, 2019:
It wasn't just that Constantine made christianity the "official" religion of the Roman empire (he did), but he also sought uniformity of the faith. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of little isolated communities where some version of the abrahamic faith existed - many which had their specific ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Red_Cat do you know Latin?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 28, 2019:
It wasn't just that Constantine made christianity the "official" religion of the Roman empire (he did), but he also sought uniformity of the faith. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of little isolated communities where some version of the abrahamic faith existed - many which had their specific ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Red_Cat do you know Latin?
You are comletely alone in the Universe.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Rodatheist turiya is the 4th stage of consciousness.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 26, 2019:
Alone? Poppycock. I believe in the seer thus I believe in the self. The universe is mostly space, all interconnected. So MY stock rests on the fact we only know a drop in the ocean of knowledge and I believe there exists a turiya. pure consciousness. there is no "you" apart from anyone else to be ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 29, 2019:
@Rodatheist turiya is the 4th stage of consciousness.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
mcgeo52 comments on Aug 24, 2019:
Merriam-Webster defines religion as: " the belief in and worship of God or gods."
You cannot have Hinduism without a belief in and worship of its gods.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 27, 2019:
@mcgeo52 they're not deities. you dont get to call them that just to make your claim. you have such tunnel-vision about what a "god" is and what worship means that you can't see the forest for the trees. dude, you have to open up a little bit and take things in.
mcgeo52 comments on Aug 24, 2019:
Merriam-Webster defines religion as: " the belief in and worship of God or gods."
You cannot have Hinduism without a belief in and worship of its gods.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 27, 2019:
@mcgeo52 they're not deities. you dont get to call them that just to make your claim. you have such tunnel-vision about what a "god" is and what worship means that you can't see the forest for the trees. dude, you have to open up a little bit and take things in.
What's your take on Deja Vu?
Yogisan comments on Aug 24, 2019:
I think it's a brain burp. Your concious mind takes a split-second nap while you're doing something. Your subconcious records the activity as it happens then plays it back to the concious mind, like tape delay. Between the two you get the feeling that you've been there before. You haven't been ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 24, 2019:
I think there might be some validity here
Yogisan comments on Aug 24, 2019:
I think it's a brain burp. Your concious mind takes a split-second nap while you're doing something. Your subconcious records the activity as it happens then plays it back to the concious mind, like tape delay. Between the two you get the feeling that you've been there before. You haven't been ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 24, 2019:
I think there might be some validity here
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
mcgeo52 comments on Aug 24, 2019:
Merriam-Webster defines religion as: " the belief in and worship of God or gods."
You cannot have Hinduism without a belief in and worship of its gods.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 24, 2019:
really? then why are no Hindu deities worshipped in Ramakrishna Worship centers? In their centers their holy trio Ramakrishna, Vivekananda and Sarada are worshipped. Where are the gods? You said a religion must believe in and worship gods. Who is the god worshipped in Buddhism temples?? Buddha was a man, not a god. I think you should learn more about Hinduism before making such claims.
mcgeo52 comments on Aug 24, 2019:
Merriam-Webster defines religion as: " the belief in and worship of God or gods."
You cannot have Hinduism without a belief in and worship of its gods.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 24, 2019:
really? then why are no Hindu deities worshipped in Ramakrishna Worship centers? In their centers their holy trio Ramakrishna, Vivekananda and Sarada are worshipped. Where are the gods? You said a religion must believe in and worship gods. Who is the god worshipped in Buddhism temples?? Buddha was a man, not a god. I think you should learn more about Hinduism before making such claims.
So there is a condolence card in the break room for one of my coworkers who’s dad just died.
Itisntwhatitis comments on Aug 23, 2019:
Religion should never be part of the workplace under any circumstances, particularly if people are forced to participate in something of a religion they don't agree with. It is unethical, but many people are so immersed in it that they often don't know any better and refuse to learn respect for ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
@ChicagoMike trying to coax you into taking a stand. make you say something controversial.
Itisntwhatitis comments on Aug 23, 2019:
Religion should never be part of the workplace under any circumstances, particularly if people are forced to participate in something of a religion they don't agree with. It is unethical, but many people are so immersed in it that they often don't know any better and refuse to learn respect for ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
@ChicagoMike trying to coax you into taking a stand. make you say something controversial.
So there is a condolence card in the break room for one of my coworkers who’s dad just died.
Arizonajerry comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Yes and I would write some clearfly non religious text like: Lets his body become one with mother earth
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
why? there's no point to prove here. "I'm around if you need help" or something likewise helpful. again, it's not about him it is about the grieving person.
Arizonajerry comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Yes and I would write some clearfly non religious text like: Lets his body become one with mother earth
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
why? there's no point to prove here. "I'm around if you need help" or something likewise helpful. again, it's not about him it is about the grieving person.
So there is a condolence card in the break room for one of my coworkers who’s dad just died.
HankSherman comments on Aug 23, 2019:
Don't worry, you'll mellow with time, and experience being so touchy about things. In the meantime just do whatever feels right, and try to not place so much importance on how you think some might see you.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
that was good advice.
HankSherman comments on Aug 23, 2019:
Don't worry, you'll mellow with time, and experience being so touchy about things. In the meantime just do whatever feels right, and try to not place so much importance on how you think some might see you.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
that was good advice.
So there is a condolence card in the break room for one of my coworkers who’s dad just died.
Itisntwhatitis comments on Aug 23, 2019:
Religion should never be part of the workplace under any circumstances, particularly if people are forced to participate in something of a religion they don't agree with. It is unethical, but many people are so immersed in it that they often don't know any better and refuse to learn respect for ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
well we certainly can't accuse you of trying to force your opinion on us now can we?
Itisntwhatitis comments on Aug 23, 2019:
Religion should never be part of the workplace under any circumstances, particularly if people are forced to participate in something of a religion they don't agree with. It is unethical, but many people are so immersed in it that they often don't know any better and refuse to learn respect for ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 23, 2019:
well we certainly can't accuse you of trying to force your opinion on us now can we?
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@WilliamFleming me? LOL no way! Here is my new version of the upanishads ...
Jaget Mitthra
Brahman satyam
ayam atma brahma
prajnanam brahman
ayam prajnanam
aham brahmasmi
Now you know it all!!
As for the version I prefer? I would recommend reading the Vivekachudamani by Sri Shankara.
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@WilliamFleming me? LOL no way! Here is my new version of the upanishads ...
Jaget Mitthra
Brahman satyam
ayam atma brahma
prajnanam brahman
ayam prajnanam
aham brahmasmi
Now you know it all!!
As for the version I prefer? I would recommend reading the Vivekachudamani by Sri Shankara.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle then you're just as blinded and close-minded as the christians you purport to dislike.
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle then you're just as blinded and close-minded as the christians you purport to dislike.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@WilliamFleming you hafta be careful with easwaran's stuff. his translation of the Gita is heralded by many Hindus, but his work on the Upanishads is really biased and self-confirming. It's almost like Mueller's horribly biased translations of the vedas wherein certain views were intentionally suppressed to promote british imperialism over indian self-sufficiency. I actually started learning sanskrit myself to read isaupanishad and do my own translation because I found a completely different meaning than Eaknath. I've heard similar complaints from others. Not about his Gita translation though.
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@WilliamFleming you hafta be careful with easwaran's stuff. his translation of the Gita is heralded by many Hindus, but his work on the Upanishads is really biased and self-confirming. It's almost like Mueller's horribly biased translations of the vedas wherein certain views were intentionally suppressed to promote british imperialism over indian self-sufficiency. I actually started learning sanskrit myself to read isaupanishad and do my own translation because I found a completely different meaning than Eaknath. I've heard similar complaints from others. Not about his Gita translation though.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle it's a real simple question - do you understand the difference and it's implications?
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle it's a real simple question - do you understand the difference and it's implications?
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle do you understand the difference between mysticism and cause & effect?
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle do you understand the difference between mysticism and cause & effect?
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@WilliamFleming yep. karma is created by all the things that surround the faith exhibited even if the true origins are misunderstood or even unknown. I used to think you had to understand, but you don't. I struggle to admit it's like strother martin telling paul newman that he needs to get his "mind right". the reality we create with our thoughts and our actions brings other aspects into our lives that affect us and those around us. I can show you literally dozens of avenues biologically, psychologically, socially, economically - such is the power of bhakti. For example: if you think about happiness all day long you will actually be more happy. and pleasant. and the more you do that the more happiness will occupy your base thoughts. it doesn't matter if you understand why or not. Who knows why a posi-trac read end works? it just does!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E6IfdUJn6s
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@WilliamFleming yep. karma is created by all the things that surround the faith exhibited even if the true origins are misunderstood or even unknown. I used to think you had to understand, but you don't. I struggle to admit it's like strother martin telling paul newman that he needs to get his "mind right". the reality we create with our thoughts and our actions brings other aspects into our lives that affect us and those around us. I can show you literally dozens of avenues biologically, psychologically, socially, economically - such is the power of bhakti. For example: if you think about happiness all day long you will actually be more happy. and pleasant. and the more you do that the more happiness will occupy your base thoughts. it doesn't matter if you understand why or not. Who knows why a posi-trac read end works? it just does!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E6IfdUJn6s
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
are there those who blindly follow dogma? well sure. but that's not its' intent. It doesn't rely on faith for efficacy. thats pretty much the point.
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
are there those who blindly follow dogma? well sure. but that's not its' intent. It doesn't rely on faith for efficacy. thats pretty much the point.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
nogod4me comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Do these "ways of life" depend, acknowledge, or endorse the supernatural in any way? Do you need something they have in order to become better or something else? Are science and academia forced to acknowledge these "ways of life" as scientific or plausible? Are their teachings extremely evident ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@nogod4me no evasion. I just don't want to answer your laundry list of bullshit baited questions. If you have an actual question then ask it ... otherwise just make your close-minded obtuse statement and move on.
nogod4me comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Do these "ways of life" depend, acknowledge, or endorse the supernatural in any way? Do you need something they have in order to become better or something else? Are science and academia forced to acknowledge these "ways of life" as scientific or plausible? Are their teachings extremely evident ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@nogod4me no evasion. I just don't want to answer your laundry list of bullshit baited questions. If you have an actual question then ask it ... otherwise just make your close-minded obtuse statement and move on.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle a genuine question? please lead me to the genuine honest questions that aren't "no, you don't know what you're talking about." It's all like deno below here "well I think blah blah blah". No attempt to learn anything new, no attempt to actually understand. The entire OP is about mysticism vs. cause and most of "genuine questions" you're referencing here don't even try to comprehend the distinction. Anger on my part? That's probably a fair assessment. I've found that the only thing as close minded as a Texas Southern Baptist is a Sri Lankan Buddhist with agnostics on this site taking a close 3rd. Learn something about the subject before acting like you're an expert.
Jama765 comments on Aug 22, 2019:
Are you just trying to get points or what? I like how you come on this board acting all high and mighty and are so rude to the people commenting. Maybe if you want a real discussion you might consider how rude you are coming across.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 22, 2019:
@Apunzelle a genuine question? please lead me to the genuine honest questions that aren't "no, you don't know what you're talking about." It's all like deno below here "well I think blah blah blah". No attempt to learn anything new, no attempt to actually understand. The entire OP is about mysticism vs. cause and most of "genuine questions" you're referencing here don't even try to comprehend the distinction. Anger on my part? That's probably a fair assessment. I've found that the only thing as close minded as a Texas Southern Baptist is a Sri Lankan Buddhist with agnostics on this site taking a close 3rd. Learn something about the subject before acting like you're an expert.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Seeker3CO
"'Astonishing fact! The Hindu Revelation (Veda) is all relavations the only one whose ideas are in perfect harmony with Modern Science, as it proclaims the slow and gradual formation of the world.'" (The Bible in India by Jacolliot, Vol II, Chapter 1)
'It (Vedic Religion) recognizes but One God. It is a thoroughly scientific religion where religion and science meet hand in hand. Here theology is based upon science and philosophy.' (The Superiority of the Vedic Religion by W.D. Brown)
"To the philosophers of India, however, Relativity is no new discovery, just as the concept of light years is no matter for astonishment to people used to thinking of time in millions of kalpas, (A kalpa is about 4,320,000 years). The fact that the wise men of India have not been concerned with technological applications of this knowledge arises from the circumstance that technology is but one of innumerable ways of applying it."
Sir John Woodroffe, A Tribute to Hinduism, page 246
"The Indians came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories.
The Rig-Veda, is the first Indian literature to set down ideas resembling universal natural laws. Cosmic law is connected with cosmic light, with gods, and, later, specifically with Brahman. It was the Vedic Aryans... who gave the world some of the earliest philosophical texts on the makeup of matter and the theoretical underpinnings for the chemical makeup of minerals. Sanskrit Vedas from thousands of years before Christ implied that matter could not be created, and that the universe had created itself. Two thousand years before Pythagoras, philosophers in northern India had understood that gravitation held the solar system together, and that therefore the sun, the most massive object, had to be at its center." "Twenty-four centuries before Isaac Newton, the Hindu Rig-Veda asserted that gravitation held the universe together. The Sanskrit speaking Aryans subscribed to the idea of a spherical earth in an era when the Greeks believed in a flat one. The Indians of the fifth century A.D. calculated the age of the earth as 4.3 billion years; scientists in 19th century England were convinced it was 100 million years."
Dick Teresi, Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science
"Hindu are more exact in astronomy and astrology than any other people."
Tarikh al-Yaqubi, The Foundations of the Composite Culture in India, page 59
"Long before it became a scientific aspiration to estimate the age of the earth, many elaborate systems of the world chronology had been devised by the sages of antiquity. The most remarkable of these occult time-scales is that of the ancient Hindus, whose astonishing concept of the Earth's duration has been traced back to Manusmriti, a sacred book."
...
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Seeker3CO
"'Astonishing fact! The Hindu Revelation (Veda) is all relavations the only one whose ideas are in perfect harmony with Modern Science, as it proclaims the slow and gradual formation of the world.'" (The Bible in India by Jacolliot, Vol II, Chapter 1)
'It (Vedic Religion) recognizes but One God. It is a thoroughly scientific religion where religion and science meet hand in hand. Here theology is based upon science and philosophy.' (The Superiority of the Vedic Religion by W.D. Brown)
"To the philosophers of India, however, Relativity is no new discovery, just as the concept of light years is no matter for astonishment to people used to thinking of time in millions of kalpas, (A kalpa is about 4,320,000 years). The fact that the wise men of India have not been concerned with technological applications of this knowledge arises from the circumstance that technology is but one of innumerable ways of applying it."
Sir John Woodroffe, A Tribute to Hinduism, page 246
"The Indians came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories.
The Rig-Veda, is the first Indian literature to set down ideas resembling universal natural laws. Cosmic law is connected with cosmic light, with gods, and, later, specifically with Brahman. It was the Vedic Aryans... who gave the world some of the earliest philosophical texts on the makeup of matter and the theoretical underpinnings for the chemical makeup of minerals. Sanskrit Vedas from thousands of years before Christ implied that matter could not be created, and that the universe had created itself. Two thousand years before Pythagoras, philosophers in northern India had understood that gravitation held the solar system together, and that therefore the sun, the most massive object, had to be at its center." "Twenty-four centuries before Isaac Newton, the Hindu Rig-Veda asserted that gravitation held the universe together. The Sanskrit speaking Aryans subscribed to the idea of a spherical earth in an era when the Greeks believed in a flat one. The Indians of the fifth century A.D. calculated the age of the earth as 4.3 billion years; scientists in 19th century England were convinced it was 100 million years."
Dick Teresi, Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science
"Hindu are more exact in astronomy and astrology than any other people."
Tarikh al-Yaqubi, The Foundations of the Composite Culture in India, page 59
"Long before it became a scientific aspiration to estimate the age of the earth, many elaborate systems of the world chronology had been devised by the sages of antiquity. The most remarkable of these occult time-scales is that of the ancient Hindus, whose astonishing concept of the Earth's duration has been traced back to Manusmriti, a sacred book."
...
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
nogod4me comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Do these "ways of life" depend, acknowledge, or endorse the supernatural in any way? Do you need something they have in order to become better or something else? Are science and academia forced to acknowledge these "ways of life" as scientific or plausible? Are their teachings extremely evident ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@nogod4me go answer your own questions. you obviously think you have some point to make then just make it.
nogod4me comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Do these "ways of life" depend, acknowledge, or endorse the supernatural in any way? Do you need something they have in order to become better or something else? Are science and academia forced to acknowledge these "ways of life" as scientific or plausible? Are their teachings extremely evident ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@nogod4me go answer your own questions. you obviously think you have some point to make then just make it.
Why would an omnipotent and an all-knowing deity use a book to communicate to his followers despite ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 21, 2019:
he didnt. each community had a little set of rules and those merged with those from other communities and then were eventually committed to writing and became books.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@averykings there's no such thing as god.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 21, 2019:
he didnt. each community had a little set of rules and those merged with those from other communities and then were eventually committed to writing and became books.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@averykings there's no such thing as god.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Fernapple comments on Aug 21, 2019:
No sorry, it all depend on how you define 'religion' , and if define it as most people on this site would I suspect do, as any belief system which includes an element of the supernatural, then they are all religions except perhaps Toaism to a degree. The difference you mean, is that between religion...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Fernapple case in point:
"The Indians came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories.
The Rig-Veda, is the first Indian literature to set down ideas resembling universal natural laws. Cosmic law is connected with cosmic light, with gods, and, later, specifically with Brahman. It was the Vedic Aryans... who gave the world some of the earliest philosophical texts on the makeup of matter and the theoretical underpinnings for the chemical makeup of minerals. Sanskrit Vedas from thousands of years before Christ implied that matter could not be created, and that the universe had created itself. Two thousand years before Pythagoras, philosophers in northern India had understood that gravitation held the solar system together, and that therefore the sun, the most massive object, had to be at its center." "Twenty-four centuries before Isaac Newton, the Hindu Rig-Veda asserted that gravitation held the universe together. The Sanskrit speaking Aryans subscribed to the idea of a spherical earth in an era when the Greeks believed in a flat one. The Indians of the fifth century A.D. calculated the age of the earth as 4.3 billion years; scientists in 19th century England were convinced it was 100 million years."
Dick Teresi, Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science
Fernapple comments on Aug 21, 2019:
No sorry, it all depend on how you define 'religion' , and if define it as most people on this site would I suspect do, as any belief system which includes an element of the supernatural, then they are all religions except perhaps Toaism to a degree. The difference you mean, is that between religion...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Fernapple case in point:
"The Indians came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories.
The Rig-Veda, is the first Indian literature to set down ideas resembling universal natural laws. Cosmic law is connected with cosmic light, with gods, and, later, specifically with Brahman. It was the Vedic Aryans... who gave the world some of the earliest philosophical texts on the makeup of matter and the theoretical underpinnings for the chemical makeup of minerals. Sanskrit Vedas from thousands of years before Christ implied that matter could not be created, and that the universe had created itself. Two thousand years before Pythagoras, philosophers in northern India had understood that gravitation held the solar system together, and that therefore the sun, the most massive object, had to be at its center." "Twenty-four centuries before Isaac Newton, the Hindu Rig-Veda asserted that gravitation held the universe together. The Sanskrit speaking Aryans subscribed to the idea of a spherical earth in an era when the Greeks believed in a flat one. The Indians of the fifth century A.D. calculated the age of the earth as 4.3 billion years; scientists in 19th century England were convinced it was 100 million years."
Dick Teresi, Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
xenoview comments on Aug 21, 2019:
All religions have a burden of proof, they have to prove any of their gods are real. When they can prove a god is real, then we can talk about other things.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
in eastern beliefs codes of conduct come from the vedas, not gods. the specific actions are located in the samhitas at the beginning which in the rig veda have practices going back as far as 75,000 years and the philosophy/ideas behind the actions are discussed in the upanishads or later in brahma sutras as people learn more.
xenoview comments on Aug 21, 2019:
All religions have a burden of proof, they have to prove any of their gods are real. When they can prove a god is real, then we can talk about other things.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
in eastern beliefs codes of conduct come from the vedas, not gods. the specific actions are located in the samhitas at the beginning which in the rig veda have practices going back as far as 75,000 years and the philosophy/ideas behind the actions are discussed in the upanishads or later in brahma sutras as people learn more.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 jagat mitthra. ayam brahmasmi.
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 jagat mitthra. ayam brahmasmi.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
xenoview comments on Aug 21, 2019:
All religions have a burden of proof, they have to prove any of their gods are real. When they can prove a god is real, then we can talk about other things.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@xenoview if it's a model and not considered causation then WHY would we need to prove it is real?
xenoview comments on Aug 21, 2019:
All religions have a burden of proof, they have to prove any of their gods are real. When they can prove a god is real, then we can talk about other things.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@xenoview if it's a model and not considered causation then WHY would we need to prove it is real?
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
xenoview comments on Aug 21, 2019:
All religions have a burden of proof, they have to prove any of their gods are real. When they can prove a god is real, then we can talk about other things.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
how does anything you said there make any sense vis a vis this conversation?
xenoview comments on Aug 21, 2019:
All religions have a burden of proof, they have to prove any of their gods are real. When they can prove a god is real, then we can talk about other things.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
how does anything you said there make any sense vis a vis this conversation?
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 word soup. moksha is the path to get away from samsara (rebirth).
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 word soup. moksha is the path to get away from samsara (rebirth).
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Seeker3CO If you don't know what a vedantist is then perhaps you shouldn't speak with such authority on eastern beliefs? As for your reference to the scientific method - you DO realize that's not the only method of proof, right? Everything in existence is not able to be shown that way. Especially heuristic concepts. Observation and introspection are the basis for many logic problems and solutions - and were exactly what Einstein credited for his discoveries. Your point is myopic and, frankly, not that well informed.
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Seeker3CO If you don't know what a vedantist is then perhaps you shouldn't speak with such authority on eastern beliefs? As for your reference to the scientific method - you DO realize that's not the only method of proof, right? Everything in existence is not able to be shown that way. Especially heuristic concepts. Observation and introspection are the basis for many logic problems and solutions - and were exactly what Einstein credited for his discoveries. Your point is myopic and, frankly, not that well informed.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Seeker3CO he said "you'll learn things and make sure to update these writings as you do instead of being attached to your previous explanations". Dude, I am not saying he was a scientist. I am saying that they DO NOT rely on mysticism in either Buddhism or Jainism or Hinduism in general - especially the vedantists. This grouping together of eastern belief systems with western is ill-informed in this regard and unless people want to continue dwelling in ignorance they need to recognize.
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Seeker3CO he said "you'll learn things and make sure to update these writings as you do instead of being attached to your previous explanations". Dude, I am not saying he was a scientist. I am saying that they DO NOT rely on mysticism in either Buddhism or Jainism or Hinduism in general - especially the vedantists. This grouping together of eastern belief systems with western is ill-informed in this regard and unless people want to continue dwelling in ignorance they need to recognize.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
there is all kinds of science involved with eastern beliefs. you have the original cause and effect writings of the upanishads combined with the explanations from others such as the Buddha (in the dhammapadda) where he reminded us that truth is the goal and we should not rest on prior understanding as well the updates of the brahma sutras. Then you have Sankara and the Vivekachudamani which limits karma to cause and effect and the testimony of the Dalai Lama who declares even now that the current lineage of Buddhist thought revolves around a narrative corresponding to current theoretical physics and issues such as the EPR paradox, the double slit experiment, and quantum entanglement. Frankly I think you're way off here. The vendantists are VERY science oriented. The point here is the people of this site have a hatred of mysticism and they need to be aware of the limitations to their complaints.
Seeker3CO comments on Aug 21, 2019:
There is no science involved in eastern mysticism. It is still philosophical and belief based. I would agree that is LESS supernaturally based than western theism but ... you are out on a limb with little support here. Taoism I will give you as a philosophy with value. Hinduism is still a religion ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
there is all kinds of science involved with eastern beliefs. you have the original cause and effect writings of the upanishads combined with the explanations from others such as the Buddha (in the dhammapadda) where he reminded us that truth is the goal and we should not rest on prior understanding as well the updates of the brahma sutras. Then you have Sankara and the Vivekachudamani which limits karma to cause and effect and the testimony of the Dalai Lama who declares even now that the current lineage of Buddhist thought revolves around a narrative corresponding to current theoretical physics and issues such as the EPR paradox, the double slit experiment, and quantum entanglement. Frankly I think you're way off here. The vendantists are VERY science oriented. The point here is the people of this site have a hatred of mysticism and they need to be aware of the limitations to their complaints.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@KKGator you're the one admittedly without understanding yet you accuse me of a reasoning issue? why don't you guys get over your hate and actually LEARN something about the universe? So tired of this copout "your proof isn't enough to satisfy me so I believe in nothing. I have nothing else to offer, I am just a naysayer without knowledge."
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@KKGator you're the one admittedly without understanding yet you accuse me of a reasoning issue? why don't you guys get over your hate and actually LEARN something about the universe? So tired of this copout "your proof isn't enough to satisfy me so I believe in nothing. I have nothing else to offer, I am just a naysayer without knowledge."
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Marionville comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Neither Western monotheist religions or Eastern mysticism/philosophy/religions interest me in the least, none of them are credible because they are not science or evidence based. You don’t need to believe in any philosophy or mysticism to understand that we need to look after the earth and all ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Marionville when you find a narrative that encompasses modern theoretical physics and biology and social psychology then I will give your argument the credence it deserves. As it stands the only one that does is advaita vedanta and I will stick with it.
Marionville comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Neither Western monotheist religions or Eastern mysticism/philosophy/religions interest me in the least, none of them are credible because they are not science or evidence based. You don’t need to believe in any philosophy or mysticism to understand that we need to look after the earth and all ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@Marionville when you find a narrative that encompasses modern theoretical physics and biology and social psychology then I will give your argument the credence it deserves. As it stands the only one that does is advaita vedanta and I will stick with it.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@KKGator if you don't know what you're talking about then you'd be "ignorant" on the subject. I thought that was rather clear.
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
@KKGator if you don't know what you're talking about then you'd be "ignorant" on the subject. I thought that was rather clear.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Fernapple comments on Aug 21, 2019:
No sorry, it all depend on how you define 'religion' , and if define it as most people on this site would I suspect do, as any belief system which includes an element of the supernatural, then they are all religions except perhaps Toaism to a degree. The difference you mean, is that between religion...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
then you dont know what you're talking about when it comes to hinduism - both astika and nastika. I dont care if you don't choose to define it that way or not ... the eastern beliefs are based on cause and effect and not mysticism. it's that simple. the entire idea of karma is cause and effect. and there are no vendatics clamoring for "non-science" and "more religious".
Fernapple comments on Aug 21, 2019:
No sorry, it all depend on how you define 'religion' , and if define it as most people on this site would I suspect do, as any belief system which includes an element of the supernatural, then they are all religions except perhaps Toaism to a degree. The difference you mean, is that between religion...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
then you dont know what you're talking about when it comes to hinduism - both astika and nastika. I dont care if you don't choose to define it that way or not ... the eastern beliefs are based on cause and effect and not mysticism. it's that simple. the entire idea of karma is cause and effect. and there are no vendatics clamoring for "non-science" and "more religious".
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
even those little villages understand these are merely avatars. the idea of bhakti is to properly align your reality to the realities of the thing you seek.
WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2019:
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Christianity wants you to BELIEVE, and if you don’t, woe be unto you! And damn it, you are SINFUL!
The eastern traditions want you to be aware, to attain Self-Realization, and to live in harmony, in peace and compassion.
I do think there is a ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
even those little villages understand these are merely avatars. the idea of bhakti is to properly align your reality to the realities of the thing you seek.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
nogod4me comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Do these "ways of life" depend, acknowledge, or endorse the supernatural in any way? Do you need something they have in order to become better or something else? Are science and academia forced to acknowledge these "ways of life" as scientific or plausible? Are their teachings extremely evident ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
nope. not supernatural. cause and effect,
nogod4me comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Do these "ways of life" depend, acknowledge, or endorse the supernatural in any way? Do you need something they have in order to become better or something else? Are science and academia forced to acknowledge these "ways of life" as scientific or plausible? Are their teachings extremely evident ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
nope. not supernatural. cause and effect,
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Marionville comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Neither Western monotheist religions or Eastern mysticism/philosophy/religions interest me in the least, none of them are credible because they are not science or evidence based. You don’t need to believe in any philosophy or mysticism to understand that we need to look after the earth and all ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
why did you even bother to answer if you didnt read a thing said? make your own thread if you want a sounding board.
Marionville comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Neither Western monotheist religions or Eastern mysticism/philosophy/religions interest me in the least, none of them are credible because they are not science or evidence based. You don’t need to believe in any philosophy or mysticism to understand that we need to look after the earth and all ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
why did you even bother to answer if you didnt read a thing said? make your own thread if you want a sounding board.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
Fernapple comments on Aug 21, 2019:
No sorry, it all depend on how you define 'religion' , and if define it as most people on this site would I suspect do, as any belief system which includes an element of the supernatural, then they are all religions except perhaps Toaism to a degree. The difference you mean, is that between religion...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
You're still missing the point in nt about cause and effdct.
Fernapple comments on Aug 21, 2019:
No sorry, it all depend on how you define 'religion' , and if define it as most people on this site would I suspect do, as any belief system which includes an element of the supernatural, then they are all religions except perhaps Toaism to a degree. The difference you mean, is that between religion...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
You're still missing the point in nt about cause and effdct.
An important distinction to learn as an agnostic
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
Because it's silly to be ignorant first of all.
KKGator comments on Aug 21, 2019:
Not sure what you are attempting to "explain", or why you seem to think
an explanation is necessary?
Nor what it is you seem to think the people on this site "believe".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 21, 2019:
Because it's silly to be ignorant first of all.
This post is for fun and philosophical thought: If you could change lives with ONE person in the ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 19, 2019:
the Buddha
JeffMesser replies on Aug 20, 2019:
@JacobMeyers Ayam Brahmasmi. Jagat Mitthra.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 19, 2019:
the Buddha
JeffMesser replies on Aug 20, 2019:
@JacobMeyers Ayam Brahmasmi. Jagat Mitthra.
This post is for fun and philosophical thought: If you could change lives with ONE person in the ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 19, 2019:
the Buddha
JeffMesser replies on Aug 20, 2019:
@Spinliesel yeah yeah yeah. I mean the actual Siddhartha Gautama.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 19, 2019:
the Buddha
JeffMesser replies on Aug 20, 2019:
@Spinliesel yeah yeah yeah. I mean the actual Siddhartha Gautama.
Man finds $100 dollar bill on the ground.
Lorajay comments on Aug 18, 2019:
Everyone reaps what they sow
JeffMesser replies on Aug 18, 2019:
and why is that?
Lorajay comments on Aug 18, 2019:
Everyone reaps what they sow
JeffMesser replies on Aug 18, 2019:
and why is that?
July was hottest month on record. [thinkprogress.org]
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I keep thinking you're jerry springer
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@ToolGuy it's not meant to be bad. I like jerry springer. he's a nice guy. his show was kinda dumb but he's a good fella in my view.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I keep thinking you're jerry springer
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@ToolGuy it's not meant to be bad. I like jerry springer. he's a nice guy. his show was kinda dumb but he's a good fella in my view.
July was hottest month on record. [thinkprogress.org]
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I keep thinking you're jerry springer
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@ToolGuy your picture looks like jerry springer. I cant be the only one who sees that ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I keep thinking you're jerry springer
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@ToolGuy your picture looks like jerry springer. I cant be the only one who sees that ...
Do you get bothered by people saying “have a blessed day”
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn I just figured out that anger was doing more harm to me than it was to them and I saw them for who they were.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn I just figured out that anger was doing more harm to me than it was to them and I saw them for who they were.
Do you get bothered by people saying “have a blessed day”
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn those are solid arguments. I agree. I have a significant level of detachment from casual existence right now.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn those are solid arguments. I agree. I have a significant level of detachment from casual existence right now.
Do you get bothered by people saying “have a blessed day”
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn given up? hardly. I found some objectivity and balance in the vedas and science. They're mindless drones and we're all going to the same destination no matter what trivial little crap they come up with that makes them happy to identify with one another. Mad about them trying to influence mine and me? no more than I'd be mad at a scorpion for trying to sting me. I've seen the truth so their little close-minded mythos doesn't bother me.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn given up? hardly. I found some objectivity and balance in the vedas and science. They're mindless drones and we're all going to the same destination no matter what trivial little crap they come up with that makes them happy to identify with one another. Mad about them trying to influence mine and me? no more than I'd be mad at a scorpion for trying to sting me. I've seen the truth so their little close-minded mythos doesn't bother me.
Do you get bothered by people saying “have a blessed day”
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn yes yes yes. I know. I have been through that whole gamut of hate and disgust. spent years seething in it. it all stems from perceptions of betrayal. eventually you grow past it.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 16, 2019:
I used to before I got over my anti-theist anger. now I just say "thank you".
JeffMesser replies on Aug 16, 2019:
@Varn yes yes yes. I know. I have been through that whole gamut of hate and disgust. spent years seething in it. it all stems from perceptions of betrayal. eventually you grow past it.
Progressive Peeps, what do you think about the points made in this video?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 15, 2019:
once the raging idiot started railing on socialism I turned it off. once some of his ilk actually learns what socialism is then we can talk. right now it's just a "bad word" that they don't understand at all. and if you're with them you don't either.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@St-Sinner ammunition? 4.1 trillion in tax cuts for f*cking rich people who dont need it while people at my courthouse can't make enough money to pay their probation and they keep getting thrown in jail on revocations. Thats the ammunition.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 15, 2019:
once the raging idiot started railing on socialism I turned it off. once some of his ilk actually learns what socialism is then we can talk. right now it's just a "bad word" that they don't understand at all. and if you're with them you don't either.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@St-Sinner ammunition? 4.1 trillion in tax cuts for f*cking rich people who dont need it while people at my courthouse can't make enough money to pay their probation and they keep getting thrown in jail on revocations. Thats the ammunition.
Lately i have read ar least a dozen posts on here talking about "gawd", AS IF one exists.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 14, 2019:
gawd? we've got to lose this anger. I know it's hard. you feel so lied to and violated by the bullsh!t. you've got to develop some objectivity and see them for the weak creatures that they (and we all) are. we're not spiting anyone by saying "gawd" and it's teaching no one a lesson other than ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@AnneWimsey I believe you yourself are the one distanced from reality. we're all going to the same place. no matter what any of these religions say. So really the only difference is the path. If their path makes them happy then be happy for them. Not everyone needs the ultimate truth. Rest heartily knowing you see the end while they're stuck in the forest. I genuinely pity them. Consider yourself fortunate to have escaped and help others who seek you out on it. But everyone must set their mind on their own path because from a humanistic standpoint the peace of mind you have at death is your eternity. Don't fault them theirs. Empathy.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 14, 2019:
gawd? we've got to lose this anger. I know it's hard. you feel so lied to and violated by the bullsh!t. you've got to develop some objectivity and see them for the weak creatures that they (and we all) are. we're not spiting anyone by saying "gawd" and it's teaching no one a lesson other than ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@AnneWimsey I believe you yourself are the one distanced from reality. we're all going to the same place. no matter what any of these religions say. So really the only difference is the path. If their path makes them happy then be happy for them. Not everyone needs the ultimate truth. Rest heartily knowing you see the end while they're stuck in the forest. I genuinely pity them. Consider yourself fortunate to have escaped and help others who seek you out on it. But everyone must set their mind on their own path because from a humanistic standpoint the peace of mind you have at death is your eternity. Don't fault them theirs. Empathy.
Lately i have read ar least a dozen posts on here talking about "gawd", AS IF one exists.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 14, 2019:
gawd? we've got to lose this anger. I know it's hard. you feel so lied to and violated by the bullsh!t. you've got to develop some objectivity and see them for the weak creatures that they (and we all) are. we're not spiting anyone by saying "gawd" and it's teaching no one a lesson other than ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@AnneWimsey I'd suggest that you're projecting your anger and that your ideas about various god conceptions are rather limited. In hinduism they aren't like the gods of abraham or the west. They're more like role models to emulate. Like ... if I was a QB in 100 years then Tom Brady might be my god. They're not beings that sit on high and judge you or determine your destiny.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 14, 2019:
gawd? we've got to lose this anger. I know it's hard. you feel so lied to and violated by the bullsh!t. you've got to develop some objectivity and see them for the weak creatures that they (and we all) are. we're not spiting anyone by saying "gawd" and it's teaching no one a lesson other than ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@AnneWimsey I'd suggest that you're projecting your anger and that your ideas about various god conceptions are rather limited. In hinduism they aren't like the gods of abraham or the west. They're more like role models to emulate. Like ... if I was a QB in 100 years then Tom Brady might be my god. They're not beings that sit on high and judge you or determine your destiny.
Clintons kill Epstein?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 13, 2019:
only a complete and total moron would think the Clintons had anything to do with it.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@wjwolfe half my damn family is the same way. I come by knowledge of them honestly.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 13, 2019:
only a complete and total moron would think the Clintons had anything to do with it.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
@wjwolfe half my damn family is the same way. I come by knowledge of them honestly.
Strange how people have to resort to insults when they don't like someone's opinion
"AnneWimsey ...
lerlo comments on Aug 15, 2019:
Welcome to agnostic.com Name calling is the weapon of choice here for people without any facts to back up their claims or as you say, if they disagree with a post or comment and have no substance to back up their disagreement. Be prepared for it every time you make a post or comment and it's the ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
quite honestly that tactic isn't unique to this site. it's worldwide. I escaped the clutches of the southern baptists and after a 3 decade search found my way to Buddhism ... only to discover that the Sri Lankan and Vietnamese and Cambodian and Thai etc... Buddhists were every bit as close-minded about their views as the baptists in Odessa, Tx and Newcastle, Ok. It's all part of the tool that is religion and its' impact upon our minds.
lerlo comments on Aug 15, 2019:
Welcome to agnostic.com Name calling is the weapon of choice here for people without any facts to back up their claims or as you say, if they disagree with a post or comment and have no substance to back up their disagreement. Be prepared for it every time you make a post or comment and it's the ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 15, 2019:
quite honestly that tactic isn't unique to this site. it's worldwide. I escaped the clutches of the southern baptists and after a 3 decade search found my way to Buddhism ... only to discover that the Sri Lankan and Vietnamese and Cambodian and Thai etc... Buddhists were every bit as close-minded about their views as the baptists in Odessa, Tx and Newcastle, Ok. It's all part of the tool that is religion and its' impact upon our minds.
Do you think sociopaths and psychopaths can't really help their actions since they didn't really ...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 14, 2019:
they are completely helpless in the face of it.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 14, 2019:
@bigpawbullets you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. In the meantime I will continue to actually work with these people weekly and assist the mentally infirm in their criminal court proceedings.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 14, 2019:
they are completely helpless in the face of it.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 14, 2019:
@bigpawbullets you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. In the meantime I will continue to actually work with these people weekly and assist the mentally infirm in their criminal court proceedings.
We gotta change how we look at things
Jolanta comments on Aug 13, 2019:
Sounds to me like you "found" religion.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 14, 2019:
@Jolanta pure conjecture. a vision I see in my head of the ways 2 particles across the universe might be entangled on a quantum level and violate the EPR paradox while meeting descriptions offered in the upanishads.
Jolanta comments on Aug 13, 2019:
Sounds to me like you "found" religion.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 14, 2019:
@Jolanta pure conjecture. a vision I see in my head of the ways 2 particles across the universe might be entangled on a quantum level and violate the EPR paradox while meeting descriptions offered in the upanishads.
Would you as an agnostic or atheist marry a Christian?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 13, 2019:
is she hot? I can put up with a lot of ignorant crap for smoking hotness. especially a hot redhead with green eyes.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
@Merseyman1 usetabe I could only guarantee 2 minutes. but I could probably get 5 now. just not a furious five.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 13, 2019:
is she hot? I can put up with a lot of ignorant crap for smoking hotness. especially a hot redhead with green eyes.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
@Merseyman1 usetabe I could only guarantee 2 minutes. but I could probably get 5 now. just not a furious five.
Would you as an agnostic or atheist marry a Christian?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 13, 2019:
is she hot? I can put up with a lot of ignorant crap for smoking hotness. especially a hot redhead with green eyes.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
@AstralSmoke no red hair? I don't know. That's a tough one. I may be a misogynistic pig, but I am a misogynistic pig with standards!
JeffMesser comments on Aug 13, 2019:
is she hot? I can put up with a lot of ignorant crap for smoking hotness. especially a hot redhead with green eyes.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
@AstralSmoke no red hair? I don't know. That's a tough one. I may be a misogynistic pig, but I am a misogynistic pig with standards!
We gotta change how we look at things
GuitarDoctor comments on Aug 13, 2019:
Not sure what you mean. Sounds like religious mumbo jumbo to me
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
So if YOU don't understand it then it's "religious mumbo jumbo"?
How does that make you any different than those "I don't understand so it must be god" people???
GuitarDoctor comments on Aug 13, 2019:
Not sure what you mean. Sounds like religious mumbo jumbo to me
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
So if YOU don't understand it then it's "religious mumbo jumbo"?
How does that make you any different than those "I don't understand so it must be god" people???
We gotta change how we look at things
Jolanta comments on Aug 13, 2019:
Sounds to me like you "found" religion.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
found philosophy. not sure that it's religion. it's more like 'you religions go about doing what you do because we're all of the same destiny anyway so your little distraction is of no consequence"
Jolanta comments on Aug 13, 2019:
Sounds to me like you "found" religion.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 13, 2019:
found philosophy. not sure that it's religion. it's more like 'you religions go about doing what you do because we're all of the same destiny anyway so your little distraction is of no consequence"
Apparently Epstein left a note ...
Pamscwf1 comments on Aug 10, 2019:
You have to be a certain age to appreciate that.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 10, 2019:
what?
Pamscwf1 comments on Aug 10, 2019:
You have to be a certain age to appreciate that.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 10, 2019:
what?
Do you think taking yourself out to eat alone is weird?
JeffMesser comments on Aug 4, 2019:
why would it be weird?
JeffMesser replies on Aug 5, 2019:
@EmeraldJewel you're worried about what they say in Sallisaw? There are barely even 2 people in Sallisaw so it may be required that you eat alone.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 4, 2019:
why would it be weird?
JeffMesser replies on Aug 5, 2019:
@EmeraldJewel you're worried about what they say in Sallisaw? There are barely even 2 people in Sallisaw so it may be required that you eat alone.
There is much evidence linking mass murder with psychiatric drugs.
Bobbyzen comments on Aug 4, 2019:
Why is there not more discussion of banning assault weapons?
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
because gun nuts like to argue that any gun will do the same thing ... which is bull. An AK47 with a standard round manages a muzzle velocity of over 2,300 ft/sec while a 12 gauge shotgun slug may hit 1,600 with no range and a 9mm Glock achieves just over 1,000 ft/sec. Talk to any trauma surgeon and they'll tell you the comparisons aren't even close. If they're shot with a pistol most live ... with an AK-47 the damage is tremendously worse and they will likely die.
Bobbyzen comments on Aug 4, 2019:
Why is there not more discussion of banning assault weapons?
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
because gun nuts like to argue that any gun will do the same thing ... which is bull. An AK47 with a standard round manages a muzzle velocity of over 2,300 ft/sec while a 12 gauge shotgun slug may hit 1,600 with no range and a 9mm Glock achieves just over 1,000 ft/sec. Talk to any trauma surgeon and they'll tell you the comparisons aren't even close. If they're shot with a pistol most live ... with an AK-47 the damage is tremendously worse and they will likely die.
I found a poem that fits America well...
JeffMesser comments on Aug 4, 2019:
Roses are red
Violets are blue
America sucks now
and Trump does too
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@Bobbyzen really? you're gonna defend him here?? don't defend trump.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 4, 2019:
Roses are red
Violets are blue
America sucks now
and Trump does too
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@Bobbyzen really? you're gonna defend him here?? don't defend trump.
Im going to go out with a guy I met online who says he's a primal dom.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:
well, if he can't even SPELL dumb then I wouldn't mess with him.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@thinktwice I am merely engaging in playful banter. I am not in the least bit angered or disturbed. namaste
JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:
well, if he can't even SPELL dumb then I wouldn't mess with him.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@thinktwice I am merely engaging in playful banter. I am not in the least bit angered or disturbed. namaste
Im going to go out with a guy I met online who says he's a primal dom.
JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:
well, if he can't even SPELL dumb then I wouldn't mess with him.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@thinktwice really? wow, my sensors must be way off because they're picking it up still!
JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:
well, if he can't even SPELL dumb then I wouldn't mess with him.
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@thinktwice really? wow, my sensors must be way off because they're picking it up still!
Why I left christianity video
Deiter comments on Jul 23, 2019:
The Abrahamics, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, the Bahá'í Faith, and even Scientology are all anti-sex, or, have many rules regarding its expression. Usually it allows sex only within marriage and even then many of them impose limits on that too.
Sex positive religions: Gnosticism, ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@Deiter you're surprised that someone doesn't keep the same frame of mind over an 11 day period? been a human long??
Deiter comments on Jul 23, 2019:
The Abrahamics, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, the Bahá'í Faith, and even Scientology are all anti-sex, or, have many rules regarding its expression. Usually it allows sex only within marriage and even then many of them impose limits on that too.
Sex positive religions: Gnosticism, ...
JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:
@Deiter you're surprised that someone doesn't keep the same frame of mind over an 11 day period? been a human long??
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