Come to think of it.

JeffMesser comments on Aug 3, 2019:

read Yuval Harari's "Sapiens" where he describes why and how we use all these fictions you allude to.

JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:

@Matias oh well. I was thinking "this book would be right up his alley". you beat me to it!! I really enjoyed that book. It's been so useful.

One of the things I find disgusting about christians is that they are nearly always unwilling to ...

LucyLoohoo comments on Aug 4, 2019:

If you're going to be a Christian....you MUST close your mind to logic, contradictions, nonsensical assumptions, etc. I have a Jehovah's Witness friend (yes...believe it or not) and she just flatly refuses to LISTEN or even open her mind to logical facts. Whoever invented religion really ...

JeffMesser replies on Aug 4, 2019:

religion was a product of human nature. check out yuval harari's "sapiens".

Why I left christianity video

Deiter comments on Jul 23, 2019:

The Abrahamics, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, the Bahá'í Faith, and even Scientology are all anti-sex, or, have many rules regarding its expression. Usually it allows sex only within marriage and even then many of them impose limits on that too. Sex positive religions: Gnosticism, ...

JeffMesser replies on Aug 3, 2019:

@Deiter receipts? man, you're welcome to whatever beliefs you wish to have. namaste

I don't mean to sound like a prick, but when i'm at a restaurant i think its insanely rude to beg ...

JeffMesser comments on Aug 3, 2019:

have some compassion

JeffMesser replies on Aug 3, 2019:

@Allamanda I dont disagree with that as a course of action. but don't show scorn. people are hungry and desperate. find compassion in your heart, not disdain.

Split Brain Patient - Both Atheist & Christian! - YouTube

JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:

meh, I'm not convinced. I still see a seer. There's a viewer to cause the objectivity and vendatics completely undermine every split brain scenario this guy wants to propose because he doesn't consider a singular consciousness rendered thru the physical filter. Quite honestly it's hard to take a ...

JeffMesser replies on Aug 3, 2019:

@WilliamFleming thanks. I dont want to leave the impression that I think dasana are unassailable - but you have to actually understand them in order to refute them. It's obvious from his continued tirade against the physical that he understands neither mimamsa nor vedanta and his complaints all focus on an aspect of hinduism that no longer even exists. Unlike Abrahamic views modern Hinduism actually changes with evolutions of culture and science. Listen to the Dalai Lama - he's a man of science. The few modern Jains are the same. The astika philosophies are the same way overall even if some local cultures do still embrace aspects of bhakti. Atheists and many in the west get hung up on the existence of gods within the hindu gamut of beliefs without realizing the HUGE difference between abrahamics and hindus in that aspect. Hindu gods are models of conduct and personifications of traits they wish to emulate ... NOT mystical beings set on high in judgment.

I don't mean to sound like a prick, but when i'm at a restaurant i think its insanely rude to beg ...

JeffMesser comments on Aug 3, 2019:

have some compassion

JeffMesser replies on Aug 3, 2019:

@Allamanda it doesnt matter what they do or show - you exercise compassion.

Im going to go out with a guy I met online who says he's a primal dom.

JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:

well, if he can't even SPELL dumb then I wouldn't mess with him.

JeffMesser replies on Aug 2, 2019:

@thinktwice I sense a scintilla of sarcasm.

Im going to go out with a guy I met online who says he's a primal dom.

JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:

well, if he can't even SPELL dumb then I wouldn't mess with him.

JeffMesser replies on Aug 2, 2019:

@thinktwice see ... nice clean fun and you didnt need lube or a safe word.

Im going to go out with a guy I met online who says he's a primal dom.

JeffMesser comments on Aug 2, 2019:

well, if he can't even SPELL dumb then I wouldn't mess with him.

JeffMesser replies on Aug 2, 2019:

@thinktwice did you know "gullible" isn't in the dictionary?

Yeah, I know, but they're still funny. 😄

JeffMesser comments on Aug 1, 2019:

What kind of ignorant crap is this? On what level is it funny?

JeffMesser replies on Aug 1, 2019:

@Captain_Feelgood why does your humor rely on making someone else look bad? Self-deprecating humor is cool ... but making fun of someone else to make yourself feel better isn't a sign of maturity and great mental health. The fact you think it humorous says a lot about you.

The origins of religious mysticism

mordant comments on Jul 30, 2019:

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Eastern woo "has a scientific basis". It has roughly the same configuration as western religion in terms of the majority being at least somewhat open to adapting religion to modern understanding, and a minority with outsize influence not being open to it. ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 31, 2019:

@mordant The Buddha also made the same point when he said we shouldnt be too attached to even our understanding. As for the entanglement issue ... we don't know how that works so your conjecture is no more valid than my own.

The origins of religious mysticism

mordant comments on Jul 30, 2019:

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Eastern woo "has a scientific basis". It has roughly the same configuration as western religion in terms of the majority being at least somewhat open to adapting religion to modern understanding, and a minority with outsize influence not being open to it. ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 30, 2019:

@mordant as a secular buddhist I found the se asian buddhists just as close-minded as the southern baptists were of my youth. This became especially true when I started demystifying some of their concepts by describing them in normal terms. Take karma - it's not some mystical arbiter sitting in the heavens judging your actions as moral or immoral. It's nothing more than cosmic momentum of the many factors that follow making the decisions and taking the actions taken. Now, that does leave the moralistic decisions of the community as an avenue of ill, but overall it makes karma more purely cause and effect without the whole "moral retribution" avenue. As for further ties I still contend that the double slit experiment shows awareness as a key component with neither mass not form for breaking the EPR paradox. If we consider each particle at opposite ends of the universe being entangled then the only way to explain the instantaneous action in violation of Einstein's relativity (faster than the speed of light) is that they are connected. It would have to be a connection by a media shared by both and all things. That is space. All of space is connected. Nothing is actually solid. If we consider a potential open by awareness and met by a response from a particle elsewhere you could have instantaneous spooky action at a distance despite a universe apart. The medium, according to the Mundakya upanishad, is awareness. Thats certainly an accommodation to modern science, unlike the Abrahamic religions and mormonism/scientology, and is more than woo. It amazes me when people label something in some derogatory fashion like "woo" with no idea what actually sits behind it.

The origins of religious mysticism

mordant comments on Jul 30, 2019:

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Eastern woo "has a scientific basis". It has roughly the same configuration as western religion in terms of the majority being at least somewhat open to adapting religion to modern understanding, and a minority with outsize influence not being open to it. ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 30, 2019:

I will tell you right off that calling it "woo" is very ignorant and myopic.

How did you deal with the empty nest syndrome?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 28, 2019:

watch this movie. it helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SnWOTDykAc

JeffMesser replies on Jul 28, 2019:

@Cecilia2018 dont let people's views on god make such an impact on you. it's their personification of the universe. nothing more. WE are the change agents.

Morgan Freeman's take on Hindu approach to evil: ".

webbew1 comments on Jul 27, 2019:

I agree that in most cases evil is made and not born. MOST cases. However, there are just some people who are born with their brains wired all wrong. No amount of therapy is going to change these people. I also believe that at the age of 18, the individual becomes fully accountable for the ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 27, 2019:

IF you believe 18 is the age of mental maturity then you have a LOT of learning to catch up on. The correct answer there would be somewhere around 28.

What we were founded on

JeffMesser comments on Jul 25, 2019:

india was founded on hindu beliefs and theyve been going for 3,500 years or so

JeffMesser replies on Jul 26, 2019:

@Max2Tucker you might want to check your own understanding of hinduism. after the synthesis (500 BCE) it incorporates any other religion within its' fold.

Mad at god or don't believe?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 25, 2019:

i'm a secular hindu

JeffMesser replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@lerlo I believe our consciousness is pure awareness and apart from our body and mind. I believe that awareness flows thru everything and is the substratum of reality upon which the entangled particles bond flows to create the spooky action at a long distance thus breaking the EPR paradox.

I started a retail job in the inner city a couple of months ago.

bobwjr comments on Jul 25, 2019:

You live in the bible belt to be expected religion runs their lives and thoughts

JeffMesser replies on Jul 25, 2019:

as a former resident of fred's hometown I can attest that it is that oppressive

What we were founded on

JeffMesser comments on Jul 25, 2019:

india was founded on hindu beliefs and theyve been going for 3,500 years or so

JeffMesser replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@Sofabeast couldnt agree more. it fascinates me.

What we were founded on

JeffMesser comments on Jul 25, 2019:

india was founded on hindu beliefs and theyve been going for 3,500 years or so

JeffMesser replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@gsiamne gods in hinduism are nothing like gods in abrahamic religions. they are more like role models. not really mystic.

I started a retail job in the inner city a couple of months ago.

JeffMesser comments on Jul 25, 2019:

duh. I havent gone back to Enid for more than a few minutes since I left there in 84.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@Fred_Snerd anyone trying to drive you out of enid is doing you a favor.

When are you gonna make up some pamphlets or something for people to use once they get past their ...

FrayedBear comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Atheism is a temporary step to what?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 24, 2019:

to something other than atheism

Why I left christianity video

OldMetalHead comments on Jul 22, 2019:

I agree with what he says about christianity, which I consider common sense. Could he more condescending about Eastern religion? He mentions Hinduism specifically and later says Eastern religion isn't used to control people.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@OldMetalHead because people suck. you sound like someone with an axe to grind.

I feel that the reason we have not contacted alien life in other parts of the Universe is because ...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 23, 2019:

the window of opportunity between different civilizations that have the ability simultaneously is very small. almost astronomical odds.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@DavidNoel I am also referring to time

Hail Satan Released online and DVD

JeffMesser comments on Jul 23, 2019:

why would anyone follow this ignorance?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@MsAl being an opinionated person without knowledge is a really ugly sight. I'd develop an urge to learn.

Hail Satan Released online and DVD

JeffMesser comments on Jul 23, 2019:

why would anyone follow this ignorance?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@MsAl see, the whole thing about deities is rather misunderstood by most in the west when it comes to the hindus. granted there are some who embrace bhakti from a mystical perspective. but mostly it's a matter of modeling. they believe that we all have specific roles and duties in order to make our societies function properly and those deities are actually the models for how each person is to act within those roles. even showing reverence to a specific deity is more about the meditative quality of the acts a la mindfulness than worshiping like we see in abrahamic religions. this is why I frown when people refer to the god culture there and act like it's how the christians and muslims worship their god. completely different cultures and approaches.

Hail Satan Released online and DVD

JeffMesser comments on Jul 23, 2019:

why would anyone follow this ignorance?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@MsAl just a suggestion ... you might find your efforts more personally constructive by examining and reconstructing these belief systems with an emphasis or justification on science. take away the mysticism and you're left with a social tool that actually has some merit. check out yuval harari's "Sapiens" then Wright's "Why Buddhism is true". Staying on the path of hate and discontent is a waste of time.

Humans Made Tools Atop the Tibetan Plateau More than 30,000 Years Ago [the-scientist.com]

JeffMesser comments on Jul 23, 2019:

yes, but were those humans from the west or the south?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@Cast1es we also know that their mDNA contains evidence of an admixture with the denisovans that extends east and south and into the islands thru Malay, across Indonesia and papua new guinea into Australia.

Why I left christianity video

OldMetalHead comments on Jul 22, 2019:

I agree with what he says about christianity, which I consider common sense. Could he more condescending about Eastern religion? He mentions Hinduism specifically and later says Eastern religion isn't used to control people.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@Allamanda I dont think you understand the concept of karma.

Why I left christianity video

OldMetalHead comments on Jul 22, 2019:

I agree with what he says about christianity, which I consider common sense. Could he more condescending about Eastern religion? He mentions Hinduism specifically and later says Eastern religion isn't used to control people.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

I thought much the same about caste until I learned about hinduism. I'd suggest learning about it before your condemnation. Those "gods" you castigate them over are actually the role models they use for that caste system and the use of such a system is organically sound much like the food chain in nature. The roles that we put in different places in our western society are accommodated in different manners in their castes. Enforcing our models and expectations upon their cultures has the same effects as introducing non-native species into a foreign fauna environment. disastrous. A friend earlier who lives in a small village in India was telling me of the problems involved with British intrusion and "modernization". One example of the problems involved education. Prior to British occupation the literacy rate among all Indians was well over 50% but eventually turned to under 3% with Brit "modernization". Those temples and mosques in each village that the brits destroyed were used by the local gurus and imams as individual schools called "gurukuls" and ALL children were taught from every caste - a form of public education dating back centuries that was completely upended. The point is just because a system doesn't meet our expectations doesn't mean it is wrong. We need to understand the system first.

Why I left christianity video

Deiter comments on Jul 23, 2019:

The Abrahamics, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, the Bahá'í Faith, and even Scientology are all anti-sex, or, have many rules regarding its expression. Usually it allows sex only within marriage and even then many of them impose limits on that too. Sex positive religions: Gnosticism, ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@Deiter as I said you're not factoring in differences between separate cultures within the belief set. Gautama Buddha spoke mostly about the monastic life and ridding one's self of attachment emotionally. But that wasn't the only lifestyle addressed in Buddhism. There was also that of the lay person who accepted the tripitaka while leading a normal life - much like the typical buddhists in China today.

Why I left christianity video

OldMetalHead comments on Jul 22, 2019:

I agree with what he says about christianity, which I consider common sense. Could he more condescending about Eastern religion? He mentions Hinduism specifically and later says Eastern religion isn't used to control people.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

it's not. he's correct about that.

Why I left christianity video

Deiter comments on Jul 23, 2019:

The Abrahamics, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, the Bahá'í Faith, and even Scientology are all anti-sex, or, have many rules regarding its expression. Usually it allows sex only within marriage and even then many of them impose limits on that too. Sex positive religions: Gnosticism, ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 23, 2019:

mmmm, I disagree Deiter. The Hindus are not hung up about sex at all. Neither are the Buddhists. Now the muslims and the abrahamic I agree. But not at all about the buddhist and hindu and jainism (which are all 3 considered hindu btw). you failed to integrate cultural differences which are huge in all the hindu belief sets. those gods are actually the role models they use in social and cultural settings. their governments even define roles based on them. Buddhists in Tibet and Nepal were polyamorous in the 15-19th centuries and would share their women for fertility with visitors from other cultures and communities. you can read all about it in "The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ" by Nicholas Notovitch and the upanishads.

Thanking those who served?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 22, 2019:

because we learned how to beat you up with a thumb or shoot you so you should thank us anyway.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@MarkiusMahamius I hope that was tongue-in-cheek because if not then you need to chillax.

Last call finds us all

JeffMesser comments on Jul 22, 2019:

because they're scared. we assume that our consciousness dies with our body and they don't know how to deal with that. it's not true, but we don't know any better.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@maturin1919 as far as we understand right now. I am all for blackboxing certain items pending further scientific discovery - including theoretical physics. Faraday visualized magnetic fields and their interactivity without being able to do the math. Einstein could visualize the physics but needed help with the math. I'm not willing to concede this as our final form yet given the fact that the universe operates in billion year increments and we only tally 70 years in this form. And if I'm wrong I miss nothing. I'll be just as angry as I was prior to being born.

Last call finds us all

JeffMesser comments on Jul 22, 2019:

because they're scared. we assume that our consciousness dies with our body and they don't know how to deal with that. it's not true, but we don't know any better.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@maturin1919 dont we all?

Last call finds us all

JeffMesser comments on Jul 22, 2019:

because they're scared. we assume that our consciousness dies with our body and they don't know how to deal with that. it's not true, but we don't know any better.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@maturin1919 yep, there's not. you're right. yet I stand by my thoughts.

Why I left christianity video

abyers1970 comments on Jul 22, 2019:

I've been studying the Tao te ching for about 2 years now and it makes so much more sense than christianity. I consider it to be more good advice than religion

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

thats how I viewed Buddhism also.

Last call finds us all

JeffMesser comments on Jul 22, 2019:

because they're scared. we assume that our consciousness dies with our body and they don't know how to deal with that. it's not true, but we don't know any better.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@maturin1919 I dont see it that way. I believe as awareness our only sensation is change - sensed as oscillation.

Last call finds us all

JeffMesser comments on Jul 22, 2019:

because they're scared. we assume that our consciousness dies with our body and they don't know how to deal with that. it's not true, but we don't know any better.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@maturin1919 awareness is all one big morass. we're only individuals by the illusion created in these minds. absent those we go back to the ether.

Last call finds us all

JeffMesser comments on Jul 22, 2019:

because they're scared. we assume that our consciousness dies with our body and they don't know how to deal with that. it's not true, but we don't know any better.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@maturin1919 awareness doesnt die with our body.

If you are a person who likes to get in early on a discussion, how often do you go back and see how ...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I'm really disappointed about the so-called "discussion" on this site. It's really more a matter of people posting a bunch of bullshit trying to get points and satisfy a dopamine urge than discussion.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@Allamanda yeah I know. generally you do still get a more intelligent group here than in the religious tainted circles (save some of the trumpsters), but it would be nice if people read more. I've found a lot of smart people here but there are also some true dumbasses.

If you are a person who likes to get in early on a discussion, how often do you go back and see how ...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I'm really disappointed about the so-called "discussion" on this site. It's really more a matter of people posting a bunch of bullshit trying to get points and satisfy a dopamine urge than discussion.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@Marionville it would be nice to actually engage in a discussion - but I admittedly shy away from the angry ex-religioso threads. I'm all hated out. I don't hate them anymore. So aside from pointless trump/nottrump threads the pickins are slim.

If you are a person who likes to get in early on a discussion, how often do you go back and see how ...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I'm really disappointed about the so-called "discussion" on this site. It's really more a matter of people posting a bunch of bullshit trying to get points and satisfy a dopamine urge than discussion.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@Allamanda i'm talking about the lower-numbered persons who shotgun post about 10 different articles then leave.

If you are a person who likes to get in early on a discussion, how often do you go back and see how ...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I'm really disappointed about the so-called "discussion" on this site. It's really more a matter of people posting a bunch of bullshit trying to get points and satisfy a dopamine urge than discussion.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@SeaGreenEyez well it's just annoying. people come by and shoot an opinion on a subject and there's no anticipation or reaction to a response. thats a drive-by in our courts here in Oklahoma county. I am sure our hanging-minded judge Elliott would love to get such a clear-cut case.

If you are a person who likes to get in early on a discussion, how often do you go back and see how ...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I'm really disappointed about the so-called "discussion" on this site. It's really more a matter of people posting a bunch of bullshit trying to get points and satisfy a dopamine urge than discussion.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@SeaGreenEyez can't believe you said that. I said the same thing yesterday. maybe you posted that before and I saw it. It is drive-by postings. it disappoints me a lot just for that reason.

Without these women, man would not have walked on the moon | Global | The Guardian

JeffMesser comments on Jul 19, 2019:

yeah these ladies right here

JeffMesser replies on Jul 20, 2019:

@CynicalGirl those are the ladies who ran the NASA cafeteria. care to argue some more?

The following is a piece I recently wrote to an old friend turned right-wing and religious: Jim, ...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 19, 2019:

why are you so focused on now? this is a mere 70+ years. we're all going to the same destination and as awareness our final form is eternal. ride the wave and chill man. if people wanna get all bound up in some bullshit religion then more power to them. I get why abrahamics limit themselves to "one ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@PondartIncbendog I guess I have grown rather unattached to this life really. I dont think this is our ultimate form and I believe as consciousness we'll be eternal. so let them bicker over this pile of rubble they keep f*cking up anyway.

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 16, 2019:

dont be shy hazy. it's ok. you can just ask me. yes, I think you're cool. but I'm too old for you and we could never make it work at this distance. so let's just suspend the heartache and remember each other fondly as we do now. perfect in one anothers' minds. namaste.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@Hazydays it was the best baby. the best.

Voynich manuscript deciphered!?!

Druvius comments on Jul 17, 2019:

We'll see. I still think it's a hoax.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@Druvius nope it's real. it's an old pre-romantic language that the nuns used before italian. it's real.

Voynich manuscript deciphered!?!

Druvius comments on Jul 17, 2019:

We'll see. I still think it's a hoax.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 17, 2019:

nope. it's real.

Don't fall for it democrats!!

1of5 comments on Jul 16, 2019:

Except his attacking of them has stopped the dems from thier own internal squabbling. Don't worry, they'll get back to it soon enough. Impeachment proceedings would produce evidence that the public wouldn't be able to ignore, and if the Senate ignores that evidence there's a very, very good ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 16, 2019:

really? kind of like how they're responding to subpoenas and discovery requests right now? There's process and there's not process. Right now they ignore our use of process because we can't enforce it at all. period. They're going to continue with this privilege claim unopposed since they have their vote in the Supreme Court and Barr's blessing. Impeachment = Trump pseudo-acquittal. period. nothing more. He wants the impeachment. These views are just leading it right to him. He's daring you to do it. That's his whole scheme right now.

Whats it like for members who live in Bible Belts?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

I'm not sure, does Iowa qualify as Bible Belt? I know the South does, but not sure about the Midwest. Somebody help me on that and I'll weigh in if I qualify.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@TomMcGiverin we're all going to the same place man. Some people just take different roads to get there. That's why I don't mess with the churchies anymore. They just don't see the bigger picture and they have some blinders on. You hafta pity them a bit.

Do not fight fascism because you will win, fight fascism because its fascism.

JeffMesser comments on Jul 13, 2019:

you're missing the point. when the senate doesn't remove him he will claim that the impeachment proceedings where his trial and he was found not guilty. and the public will buy it. at least enough of him to pose a greater risk of his reelection.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@Tooreen not a matter of fear. only a fool goes rushing in without a plan.

Whats it like for members who live in Bible Belts?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

I'm not sure, does Iowa qualify as Bible Belt? I know the South does, but not sure about the Midwest. Somebody help me on that and I'll weigh in if I qualify.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

I think the operative condition is whether you're in an area where everyone references god all the time.

Regarding baby atheists

ToolGuy comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Searching for God. https://youtu.be/pgmiPXAwiLg

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@ToolGuy I did many odd things looking for something. I only decided to engage the upanishads after reading M. Somerset Maugham's "The Razor's Edge" and the secular clarity of Buddhism intrigued me to study further.

Regarding baby atheists

ToolGuy comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Baby atheists is a stupid term that is derogatory. Makes no sense. Atheism is not developmental. We can be ambivalent stemming from our uncertainty and the new ambiguity people feel. But it is a failed metaphor.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@ToolGuy and on the other side of the wheel I find it informative and aptly descriptive. It has been my experience that new atheists often still harbor contempt and anger towards believers and their grasp of the philosophies behind many belief systems is superficial at best. They just know they don't believe in whatever they were previously asked to believe in and they remain wary of any belief set as a result. It helps to know where they are in the atheist seeker's journey.

Regarding baby atheists

ToolGuy comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Searching for God. https://youtu.be/pgmiPXAwiLg

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

thx for providing that. I watched it and found I pursued some of the same avenues that she did in my search. and we do have many commonalities.

Regarding baby atheists

ToolGuy comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Baby atheists is a stupid term that is derogatory. Makes no sense. Atheism is not developmental. We can be ambivalent stemming from our uncertainty and the new ambiguity people feel. But it is a failed metaphor.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@ToolGuy well I guess we're just juvenile like that. when I worked in DC on the hill new pols were called "baby reps" or "baby senators". I think this term is much more common than you know.

Regarding baby atheists

ToolGuy comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Baby atheists is a stupid term that is derogatory. Makes no sense. Atheism is not developmental. We can be ambivalent stemming from our uncertainty and the new ambiguity people feel. But it is a failed metaphor.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@ToolGuy I beg to differ. we call new lawyers "baby lawyers" all the time and the new interns at the hospital are often referred to as "baby docs".

Regarding baby atheists

ToolGuy comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Baby atheists is a stupid term that is derogatory. Makes no sense. Atheism is not developmental. We can be ambivalent stemming from our uncertainty and the new ambiguity people feel. But it is a failed metaphor.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

opinions vary. I on the other hand think it is an excellent term and very relevant to the situation at hand on this site. Newb atheists come here asking similar questions and making similar statements. If we follow the course of their "travels" here we can see them evolve right before our eyes OR we see them languish in a constant cycle of hate. Atheism is a mid-point, not a destination.

Karma.

Matias comments on Jul 13, 2019:

I am not an expert on this topic, but as far as I know, in Buddhism and Hinduism karma is believed to act from the current life (reincarnation) to the next life, and so on, creating a chain of acts. That is definitely a supernatural notion.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 13, 2019:

I was Buddhist and am now Hindu (advaita vedanta) - it's all vedic. The probabilities and resultants of your actions follow "you". Thats not supernatural at all. That just follows theoretical physics.

Karma.

Metahuman comments on Jul 12, 2019:

The literal definition of karma, I believe, is doing. Karma is your doing.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

@Metahuman well ... a hearty melba toast to you as well.

Regarding baby atheists

Marionville comments on Jul 12, 2019:

What exactly is a baby atheist?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

@Marionville you're certainly right and I try to be nice to them. at times it just wears on one's patience.

Regarding baby atheists

RavenCT comments on Jul 12, 2019:

There is always an adjustment period. Just like the newly religious explore - so do baby atheists. If you get burned out by the repetition let other members deal with them for a bit. There's so few of us in the world I don't usually mind. I was there myself. I just didn't have social media...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

it actually kind of amazes me that people from so many different walks come to similar conclusions. I know that Hitch and others point them in a direction so it's not all by chance, but as someone mentioned below it is indicative of a rational thought process. It does get awfully repetitive though.

Regarding baby atheists

Marionville comments on Jul 12, 2019:

What exactly is a baby atheist?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

people who are at the beginning of their atheist journey.

Regarding baby atheists

1of5 comments on Jul 12, 2019:

So? I certainly hope you don't think this is the first time someone's pointed out the exact same thing you just did. To me *Same questions (and I do mean the same). Same statements. Same references. Same conclusions.* means thier thinking is sound.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

sure.

Karma.

AmelieMatisse comments on Jul 12, 2019:

Thanks for this posting. I am Zen Buddhist and this is exactly how we view karma. It is cause and effect but as humans we often do not consider the huge range of effect an action can have. People who think that a person who does a bad deed will suffer and if they don't suffer now, they will ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

@AmelieMatisse I was a secular buddhist for some time but fitting my views into general buddhist philosophy became problematic. Shakyamuni Buddha never directly answered the self-no self question. I suspect it was for the same reason that he wouldn't fully commit to veganism and the Dalai Lama won't comment on self-immolation. There is at least a kernel of truth to either side depending on your angle of approach. I finally tired of the arguments as I kept trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with my sangha - so I went past the dhammapadda and into the vedas. The original source. My belief system has to jibe with my views of the natural world and physics and science and math. The brihadaranyaka upanishad showed me that I am actually the chariot rider and isha upanishad convinced me in its' simplicity that I am the ether of space just as we all are. This corresponds quite well with theoretical physics views regarding the true nature of reality and quantum physics probabilities. So I took the leap to vedantic (end of the vedas) views. specially monism and advaita vedanta. I finally feel like my quest is over, now I must learn.

[theweek.

slydr68 comments on Jul 12, 2019:

I don't trust any candidate whose campaign rhetoric doesn't match their voting record...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

@slydr68 I think you are right on there. Biden is just a bernie stopper and the left doesn't want to actually commit to change.

Karma.

Metahuman comments on Jul 12, 2019:

The literal definition of karma, I believe, is doing. Karma is your doing.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

no offense my friend but I am taking this from a much deeper and older source than webster's unabridged. that definition is based on an english translation of a sanskrit document written 4,500 years ago and it doesn't scratch the surface of context for understanding. the true meaning of what they were saying goes much deeper than a 1-word english translation.

Karma.

AmelieMatisse comments on Jul 12, 2019:

Thanks for this posting. I am Zen Buddhist and this is exactly how we view karma. It is cause and effect but as humans we often do not consider the huge range of effect an action can have. People who think that a person who does a bad deed will suffer and if they don't suffer now, they will ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

exactly. yet so many vedics still think there is some moral authority judging their actions on high and that's not the thing at all. I am hindu by the way. advaita vedanta.

[theweek.

slydr68 comments on Jul 12, 2019:

I don't trust any candidate whose campaign rhetoric doesn't match their voting record...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 12, 2019:

I agree with you 100%. Thats why I am so drawn to Bernie. He's genuine and he's been preaching the same message for DECADES. Not just preaching it either ... he votes it too. Now, my choice thus far is mayor pete but Bernie is right up in my book.

Is sexual incompatibility a deal breaker for you?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 11, 2019:

Most guys take pleasure in making a woman feel aroused and achieve an orgasm. It's not all selfless ... we get off on them getting off. I know it excites me. So some guy that uses a woman as little more than a sex toy should just focus on masturbating himself to sleep at night.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 11, 2019:

@TomMcGiverin I certainly see why

Is sexual incompatibility a deal breaker for you?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 11, 2019:

Most guys take pleasure in making a woman feel aroused and achieve an orgasm. It's not all selfless ... we get off on them getting off. I know it excites me. So some guy that uses a woman as little more than a sex toy should just focus on masturbating himself to sleep at night.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 11, 2019:

@Wildflower you are so wrapped up in scorn and hate that you completely miss the whole relevance of a study. Response bias is accounted and adjusted for in the methodology. To say "all the respondents lied" is to speak against centuries of statistical analysis. Remove hate-colored glasses THEN discuss.

Is sexual incompatibility a deal breaker for you?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 11, 2019:

Most guys take pleasure in making a woman feel aroused and achieve an orgasm. It's not all selfless ... we get off on them getting off. I know it excites me. So some guy that uses a woman as little more than a sex toy should just focus on masturbating himself to sleep at night.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 11, 2019:

@Wildflower I am speaking for men, not women. geez. get some objectivity and maybe a little better reading comprehension.

Is sexual incompatibility a deal breaker for you?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 11, 2019:

Most guys take pleasure in making a woman feel aroused and achieve an orgasm. It's not all selfless ... we get off on them getting off. I know it excites me. So some guy that uses a woman as little more than a sex toy should just focus on masturbating himself to sleep at night.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 11, 2019:

@Wildflower wow, it must be a terrible responsibility to know everything. https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2017/03/147672/men-female-orgasm-masculinity-study

Is sexual incompatibility a deal breaker for you?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 11, 2019:

Most guys take pleasure in making a woman feel aroused and achieve an orgasm. It's not all selfless ... we get off on them getting off. I know it excites me. So some guy that uses a woman as little more than a sex toy should just focus on masturbating himself to sleep at night.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 11, 2019:

@Wildflower I actually just read a study about this a couple months ago. Men get off on the feelings of virility they achieve from making a women feel pleasure.

This is why I freak out much more often than I used to, right here.

JeffMesser comments on Jul 11, 2019:

Personally I live as bad if not worse. BUT it's just me and my dog here now. When I had the kids living at home I didnt let it get this way. Not sure how you address it with adult kids. I think I would charge them money if I had to clean things. Not sure though ... I'd probably just give in and let ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 11, 2019:

@1EarthLovingGal I can understand that. it's hard being a parent.

Atheists are nicer to Christians compared to the other way around if their religious identity is ...

MayQueen comments on Jul 9, 2019:

I was a shitty person when I was a Christian. In my defense, I was only modeling what my Evangelical mother taught me with her words and actions. And now that I'm the opposite of what I was raised to be, I'm a HUGE disappointment. Go figure. I am a better Christian now that I am an atheist. ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 9, 2019:

christian means christ-like ... not the tag of some large group for identification. that's what has happened to christianity now. it's more of a political group than a religion.

Why is it we all try so hard when we are looking for a relationship with the opposite sex, we try to...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

because we get old.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@Athena it's all good. there's no anger here. isavasyam idam sarvam.

Why is it we all try so hard when we are looking for a relationship with the opposite sex, we try to...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

because we get old.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@Athena sure you were athena.

Why is it we all try so hard when we are looking for a relationship with the opposite sex, we try to...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

because we get old.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@Athena you couldnt figure out I was being facetious when I said "exactly 51"? uhm ... ok.

Why is it we all try so hard when we are looking for a relationship with the opposite sex, we try to...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

because we get old.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@Athena it was a joke athena. geez.

Why is it we all try so hard when we are looking for a relationship with the opposite sex, we try to...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

because we get old.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@TonyCarl1, @Athena it happens when you are exactly 51 years old.

Why is it we all try so hard when we are looking for a relationship with the opposite sex, we try to...

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

because we get old.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@TonyCarl1 I guess that just makes you a superior human being compared to the majority of us then tony. grats to you.

Two young Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door yesterday.

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

so some young people felt committed enough in their beliefs to try spreading the word and you used it as time for bullsh!t? why didnt you engage them instead? scared they might convince you of something?? you dont know what path they traveled to get to that point so who are you to ridicule them??? ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@Flyingsaucesir assume much?

Two young Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door yesterday.

JeffMesser comments on Jul 7, 2019:

so some young people felt committed enough in their beliefs to try spreading the word and you used it as time for bullsh!t? why didnt you engage them instead? scared they might convince you of something?? you dont know what path they traveled to get to that point so who are you to ridicule them??? ...

JeffMesser replies on Jul 7, 2019:

@pasha-one-nine well I would expect you to say that pasha because your entire post speaks of ME ME ME. guess what - it's not all about you. in fact, most of it isn't.

Ok....California REALLY needs to stop shaking!

LB67 comments on Jul 6, 2019:

I agree...I have had enough of the creepy vertigo feeling and swaying light fixtures.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 6, 2019:

are you guys crazy?? people pay upwards of $100 to get on rides with that kind of action. you're getting it for FREE! you should be whoopin' and hollerin' as you give capitalism the big finger and relish your free ride.

Sorry if i ramble.

BudFrank comments on Jul 5, 2019:

I have introduced myself as a recovering conservative Christian. When I divorced and the church took me off their rolls (Long story), it was a relief. I might have said thank you when I walked out, or that may have just been in my mind.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 5, 2019:

it all becomes such a ticking time-bomb. you wrap up all these people's lives into your universe and they are just combustible powder kegs of hate and repressed fear. your own mirror neurons reflect their weakness when you're around them and it changes both you and your whole world. breaking away, I mean REALLY getting away from it all and them all, is such a freeing experience. don't waste that freedom and objectivity when you get it. keep seeking.

What do you think?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 5, 2019:

Like many other attorneys I feel like this was an excellent outcome. Near perfect in fact. He technically violated a law but the jury, representing the social conscience of the community, wouldn't see him penalized for it. I consider that an excellent outcome.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 5, 2019:

@SeaGreenEyez I understand they have discretion to exercise, but they are still expected to do a job. Pressure must be applied to the legislators, not the ones enforcing the bills.

My Mount Rushmore of comedians, not in any particular order.

JeffMesser comments on Jul 3, 2019:

IF it was going to be a Mt. Rushmore then I'd agree with Robin Williams and George Carlin. I'd include Richard Pryor and Rodney Dangerfield. For my personal favorites I'd add in Mitch Hedberg and Greg Giraldo.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 4, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven much of comedy is based on stretching or violating walls of expectation in a peculiar manner. Mitch stretched different walls than most. For example ... Mitch would say something like capital B is just little b with an extra hump. Or maybe it's both humps just being kept down, by the man ... Webster. That would be a mitch hedberg joke. he would personify things unexpectedly, mix in some timely political agitation to stir it up, then violate the expectation of an answer. And it didnt require insulting a single person or hurting anyone. Thats what I dug about him.

My Mount Rushmore of comedians, not in any particular order.

JeffMesser comments on Jul 3, 2019:

IF it was going to be a Mt. Rushmore then I'd agree with Robin Williams and George Carlin. I'd include Richard Pryor and Rodney Dangerfield. For my personal favorites I'd add in Mitch Hedberg and Greg Giraldo.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 4, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven I revel in everything mitch did. to me he was a genius.

My Mount Rushmore of comedians, not in any particular order.

richiegtt comments on Jul 3, 2019:

Carlin ,Robert Klein, Jackie Mason, Dangerfield ,Sam Kinison ,Ricky Gervais

JeffMesser replies on Jul 4, 2019:

I appreciate Mason and Klein. Kinison is more of an acquired taste than general appeal. Sam was one of those 15-minutes of fame comedians that has a flash then you don't hear anything about later. Kinda like Bobcat and Howie and Tim Thomerson and Flip Wilson, Paul Lynde, Redd Foxx et al. Of course dying made a pretty big dent in Sam's career - I get that.

My Mount Rushmore of comedians, not in any particular order.

BD66 comments on Jul 3, 2019:

That's like a Mount Rushmore of basketball players: Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, and Brian Scalabrine.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 4, 2019:

I think Norm rates a little higher than Scalabrine, but your point is well taken and I am a HUGE Norm fan. He's more of an acquired taste than a timeless legend in the field like those others.

Trump’s Military Parade Is Now Estimated to Cost $92 Million: Report – Fortune [fortune.com]

Captain_Feelgood comments on Jul 2, 2019:

They spent 40 mil. on investigating Trump when Muller knew in the beginning it wasn't true.. Make him pay for it.. 😒

JeffMesser replies on Jul 2, 2019:

@Captain_Feelgood oh, isn't that cute! you still think that calling it an ad hominem makes you seem intelligent!! that went out with rick and his glasses. we'll just consider where you are in the bell curve when we look at your ignorant musings.

Trump’s Military Parade Is Now Estimated to Cost $92 Million: Report – Fortune [fortune.com]

Captain_Feelgood comments on Jul 2, 2019:

They spent 40 mil. on investigating Trump when Muller knew in the beginning it wasn't true.. Make him pay for it.. 😒

JeffMesser replies on Jul 2, 2019:

more ignorance on your part.

Trump’s Military Parade Is Now Estimated to Cost $92 Million: Report – Fortune [fortune.com]

Trajan61 comments on Jul 2, 2019:

Mueller and the democrats have spent much more than that on bogus investigations so let them pay for it.

JeffMesser replies on Jul 2, 2019:

well this was a post of ignorance. learn to read.

if there is not God, I would like to know where did everything come from?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 2, 2019:

why does something have to come from something?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 2, 2019:

@Kafirah I know what karma is - from the dhammapadda as well as the vedas. There are societal effects that emerge from following a course of action contrary to cultural norms ... but that's not a moral judgment on one's actions (which is how it has been perverted to say). Those norms change over time. It's not an inherent character of the act. This is exactly why I study the sanskrit to make these translations myself. I have found so many examples of translations and explanations with a HUGE degree of confirmation bias and little to no understanding of the culture and history that comprised the term's context. The Buddha saw this issue as well. There's a reason he refused to deny that there was a self. Because it's one of those concepts that could be easily misconstrued but for a proper foundation of knowledge in context. Same reason that the Dalai Lama will not comment on the many self-immolation cases going on now while he is in exile.

if there is not God, I would like to know where did everything come from?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 2, 2019:

why does something have to come from something?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 2, 2019:

@Kafirah thats not karma at all. that is the western distortion of karma. karma is cosmic momentum because of the fact that things intertwine so much. it ahs nothing to do with things being morally right or wrong other than the fact that people tend to do that themselves. karma is just the increased probability of something else happening because of a previous action taken.

if there is not God, I would like to know where did everything come from?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 2, 2019:

why does something have to come from something?

JeffMesser replies on Jul 2, 2019:

@Kafirah no, thats how you interpret it. I'd suggest that you follow the bouncing karma and try to imagine karmic resultants. Plus you're giving the self an individual identity. thats not true either.