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We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@Davesnothere I get what you are trying to say but Faith as used by religionists ( and some everyday users) is OFF the scale of trust ( which does exist) . That is why we need a new word beyond trust ( for which there is often a littl evidence)- FAITH - for complete lack of evidence.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@Davesnothere I get what you are trying to say but Faith as used by religionists ( and some everyday users) is OFF the scale of trust ( which does exist) . That is why we need a new word beyond trust ( for which there is often a littl evidence)- FAITH - for complete lack of evidence.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Fernapple comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I think that there is an impossible gulf, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort and loss of joy the winning of it requires." While the faithful ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@genessa We do need all sorts of tactics but unless you try your enemies tctics you will never understand them. Some Humanists advise this. Ask for a reference.
Fernapple comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I think that there is an impossible gulf, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort and loss of joy the winning of it requires." While the faithful ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@genessa We do need all sorts of tactics but unless you try your enemies tctics you will never understand them. Some Humanists advise this. Ask for a reference.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
https://www.unicef.org/about/partnerships/index_60231.html
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@Storm1752 At last we are getting into agreement !! I am totally with you on world goverment. Please start a thread. I think it just needs a few real little green men and women and a world government would be formed quickly but am not holding my breath and yes I could be totally wrong. World government hopefully will mean world science.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
https://www.unicef.org/about/partnerships/index_60231.html
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@Storm1752 At last we are getting into agreement !! I am totally with you on world goverment. Please start a thread. I think it just needs a few real little green men and women and a world government would be formed quickly but am not holding my breath and yes I could be totally wrong. World government hopefully will mean world science.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@Storm1752 'WE 'is any reasoned and logical adult. No crusades -they blacked our (UK) name accross the world. Would not sing anything commercial at a camp fire -too much on TV. 'Last vestiges 'is possible,some time away though. Hallelujah - why should we not take that word back from the religious?? to make it mean what we want e.g "Let's celebrate" . You cannot call me religious when I am NOT - fastidious and forward thinking yes, but I have been in anti religion since I was 19 yrs and have followed many non religious groups including a Skeptics AND believers group.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 6, 2019:
@Storm1752 'WE 'is any reasoned and logical adult. No crusades -they blacked our (UK) name accross the world. Would not sing anything commercial at a camp fire -too much on TV. 'Last vestiges 'is possible,some time away though. Hallelujah - why should we not take that word back from the religious?? to make it mean what we want e.g "Let's celebrate" . You cannot call me religious when I am NOT - fastidious and forward thinking yes, but I have been in anti religion since I was 19 yrs and have followed many non religious groups including a Skeptics AND believers group.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
there's a very good org. called Interfaith - https://www.interfaith.org/ - which I have found quite accepting of people with none, or at least no dogma, as in UU groups, and secular charities.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@K9Kohle789 Sad, but your right.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
there's a very good org. called Interfaith - https://www.interfaith.org/ - which I have found quite accepting of people with none, or at least no dogma, as in UU groups, and secular charities.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@K9Kohle789 Sad, but your right.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Bakunin comments on Nov 2, 2019:
You cannot. Your exercise is doomed to fail because religion is based on dogma. Skepticism is not. Therefore the religious leaders rightfully feel a threat to their power from the skeptics. As they fear us, they hate us.
The way forward is education, so that eventually foolish outmoded ideas ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 'doomed' sounds 'biblical'.
Bakunin comments on Nov 2, 2019:
You cannot. Your exercise is doomed to fail because religion is based on dogma. Skepticism is not. Therefore the religious leaders rightfully feel a threat to their power from the skeptics. As they fear us, they hate us.
The way forward is education, so that eventually foolish outmoded ideas ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 'doomed' sounds 'biblical'.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Davesnothere I have accepted the definition that faith is belief without evidence. Your choice is your choice. With that definition why do you need faith when you have evidence. Hope is when you have not tried fully to get evidence. You have to explain to me why your definition is best.............. No you don't have to do anything.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Davesnothere I have accepted the definition that faith is belief without evidence. Your choice is your choice. With that definition why do you need faith when you have evidence. Hope is when you have not tried fully to get evidence. You have to explain to me why your definition is best.............. No you don't have to do anything.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Bakunin comments on Nov 2, 2019:
You cannot. Your exercise is doomed to fail because religion is based on dogma. Skepticism is not. Therefore the religious leaders rightfully feel a threat to their power from the skeptics. As they fear us, they hate us.
The way forward is education, so that eventually foolish outmoded ideas ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Bakunin as in all education you have to prepare the learner with an appropriate preamble. It has been known for some Humanists to completely capituallte prior to having a good learning session with religious people. It is not a short process howvever.
Bakunin comments on Nov 2, 2019:
You cannot. Your exercise is doomed to fail because religion is based on dogma. Skepticism is not. Therefore the religious leaders rightfully feel a threat to their power from the skeptics. As they fear us, they hate us.
The way forward is education, so that eventually foolish outmoded ideas ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Bakunin as in all education you have to prepare the learner with an appropriate preamble. It has been known for some Humanists to completely capituallte prior to having a good learning session with religious people. It is not a short process howvever.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Storm1752 Thank you for this 'Picture' of your life I can see many infuences that are strictly American here. Can you not think of yourself as a citizen of the world even if you have not been anywhere? Can you not think of the basic Human needs? I am actually sure you can and you should try selling without money the things that you in this life have learned. I have learned from you. Thankls
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Storm1752 Thank you for this 'Picture' of your life I can see many infuences that are strictly American here. Can you not think of yourself as a citizen of the world even if you have not been anywhere? Can you not think of the basic Human needs? I am actually sure you can and you should try selling without money the things that you in this life have learned. I have learned from you. Thankls
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Davesnothere Yes we Humanists do mean everyone. How is this for an entrance exam to the group:- Examiner Are you human? : Ans Yes : Examiner Welcome you are totally in. My origninal Humanist group which is now defunct had the strapline"Faith in Humanity". Because we cannot get evidence from everyone - we can say if you are human we will help you ... even if you are a slave. Humansim is mostly about freedom with the help of science which is why I bang on about it. Join the club? . All faith is blind BTW as it means Belief without evidence and it is a very human trait accross the whole world population.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 5, 2019:
@Davesnothere Yes we Humanists do mean everyone. How is this for an entrance exam to the group:- Examiner Are you human? : Ans Yes : Examiner Welcome you are totally in. My origninal Humanist group which is now defunct had the strapline"Faith in Humanity". Because we cannot get evidence from everyone - we can say if you are human we will help you ... even if you are a slave. Humansim is mostly about freedom with the help of science which is why I bang on about it. Join the club? . All faith is blind BTW as it means Belief without evidence and it is a very human trait accross the whole world population.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@Storm1752 Surely in America one has to "sell' something even if no money is involved> Have you done any sales?
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@Storm1752 Surely in America one has to "sell' something even if no money is involved> Have you done any sales?
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@K9Kohle789 I am sorry that there seems to be so many differences between us. Believe me when I say that I hate religion as much as you but I trust that religion really will not be with us beyond the turn of this century. This will be acheived with research, campassion and empathy for fellow Humans who have been trapped in unreasonable ways of thinking . There is much experimentation , discusssion ( ....... the best way to learn) and trust to be done.We must not use preaching or any religious techniques but there are plenty of other techniques. However as you imply the choice is your as to whether you join in. Thanks for reading this far.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@K9Kohle789 I am sorry that there seems to be so many differences between us. Believe me when I say that I hate religion as much as you but I trust that religion really will not be with us beyond the turn of this century. This will be acheived with research, campassion and empathy for fellow Humans who have been trapped in unreasonable ways of thinking . There is much experimentation , discusssion ( ....... the best way to learn) and trust to be done.We must not use preaching or any religious techniques but there are plenty of other techniques. However as you imply the choice is your as to whether you join in. Thanks for reading this far.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@K9Kohle789 "I can only go by my own life and knowledge." No offence but have you not heard of 'research' and 'empathy'?
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@K9Kohle789 "I can only go by my own life and knowledge." No offence but have you not heard of 'research' and 'empathy'?
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
SenorRotten comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I can't see any way to convince people to work together for the common good because people all have different ideas of what that is. It's like trying to herd wet cats, I imagine. The religionists want to push their own agenda. as does every political party and in a sense, that's a terrible way of ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@MichaelSpinler If I thought the system was unfixable I would, like Boris, find a ditch somewhere. I believe he has one reserved in Dorset somewhere.
SenorRotten comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I can't see any way to convince people to work together for the common good because people all have different ideas of what that is. It's like trying to herd wet cats, I imagine. The religionists want to push their own agenda. as does every political party and in a sense, that's a terrible way of ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@MichaelSpinler If I thought the system was unfixable I would, like Boris, find a ditch somewhere. I believe he has one reserved in Dorset somewhere.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@MichaelSpinler You can make a blind man realise something. You can show compassion for the small section of society that will find the destruction of their ideal solution to life unable to be supported by the rest of society.
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@MichaelSpinler You can make a blind man realise something. You can show compassion for the small section of society that will find the destruction of their ideal solution to life unable to be supported by the rest of society.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
UpsideDownAgain comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Unfairness is built into their belief system. They would have to stop believing in order to begin treating us in balanced and fair ways. The best we can hope for is putting boundaries on them and not allowing them to be hurtful toward us.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
Let us get them even to realise it is unfair but more importantly MIGHT be untrue.
UpsideDownAgain comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Unfairness is built into their belief system. They would have to stop believing in order to begin treating us in balanced and fair ways. The best we can hope for is putting boundaries on them and not allowing them to be hurtful toward us.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
Let us get them even to realise it is unfair but more importantly MIGHT be untrue.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@Davesnothere Not work for bettter with everyone? The choice is yours . You have said true things. Let us cheer for all the mixed ability teachers in this world.
.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 4, 2019:
@Davesnothere Not work for bettter with everyone? The choice is yours . You have said true things. Let us cheer for all the mixed ability teachers in this world.
.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
KKGator comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I do not believe it's possible.
Religious "leaders" fear skeptics and non-believers. We're a direct threat
to their revenue stream.
They have no interest in "balanced and fair".
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@KKGator What you say is true but it should NOT put us off trying. I am not actually judging any fully serious try at debunking religion, I am trying to get a few people to have serious attempt and not be put off by anything!!!. They must do it with reason and fairness whilst trying to forget past victories by the religious.
KKGator comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I do not believe it's possible.
Religious "leaders" fear skeptics and non-believers. We're a direct threat
to their revenue stream.
They have no interest in "balanced and fair".
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@KKGator What you say is true but it should NOT put us off trying. I am not actually judging any fully serious try at debunking religion, I am trying to get a few people to have serious attempt and not be put off by anything!!!. They must do it with reason and fairness whilst trying to forget past victories by the religious.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@Allamanda I sort of expected this avalanch of negative replies , but I have tried this out in the UK . Now it is up to some one to try it in US. There are millions of interfaith organisations. We have to initiate and support through good and bad times a non belief one. Maybe it is THIS website? Agnostics are better positioned than most to seak to both sides to get things moving . The religions are way ahead of us but there is no sign of them decreasing the sheer number of religions . We would find it easier to decrease the number of non belief organisations especially if we have a merger or two successfullly accomplished . How about UK and US Humanists for a start?? Keep asking for clarification.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@Allamanda I sort of expected this avalanch of negative replies , but I have tried this out in the UK . Now it is up to some one to try it in US. There are millions of interfaith organisations. We have to initiate and support through good and bad times a non belief one. Maybe it is THIS website? Agnostics are better positioned than most to seak to both sides to get things moving . The religions are way ahead of us but there is no sign of them decreasing the sheer number of religions . We would find it easier to decrease the number of non belief organisations especially if we have a merger or two successfullly accomplished . How about UK and US Humanists for a start?? Keep asking for clarification.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
https://www.unicef.org/about/partnerships/index_60231.html
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@Allamanda You are a great source of research. That IS our main 'weapon'
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
https://www.unicef.org/about/partnerships/index_60231.html
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@Allamanda You are a great source of research. That IS our main 'weapon'
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
jlynn37 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Verifiable, falsifiable, evidence, facts and data is always a necessary ingredient to substantiate any claim.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@jlynn37 They are there to be got at ? Are they not?
jlynn37 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Verifiable, falsifiable, evidence, facts and data is always a necessary ingredient to substantiate any claim.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@jlynn37 They are there to be got at ? Are they not?
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
KKGator comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I do not believe it's possible.
Religious "leaders" fear skeptics and non-believers. We're a direct threat
to their revenue stream.
They have no interest in "balanced and fair".
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@KKGator appologies.Assumptions are the BANE of everyon's life. What you do not have is the will to show them how to do it (possibly)
KKGator comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I do not believe it's possible.
Religious "leaders" fear skeptics and non-believers. We're a direct threat
to their revenue stream.
They have no interest in "balanced and fair".
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@KKGator appologies.Assumptions are the BANE of everyon's life. What you do not have is the will to show them how to do it (possibly)
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Bakunin comments on Nov 2, 2019:
You cannot. Your exercise is doomed to fail because religion is based on dogma. Skepticism is not. Therefore the religious leaders rightfully feel a threat to their power from the skeptics. As they fear us, they hate us.
The way forward is education, so that eventually foolish outmoded ideas ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
If YOU say never it will never happen. Prediction from unqualified prophet (me)
You redeemed yourself with education. Education properly done can only be reasoned and Fair
Bakunin comments on Nov 2, 2019:
You cannot. Your exercise is doomed to fail because religion is based on dogma. Skepticism is not. Therefore the religious leaders rightfully feel a threat to their power from the skeptics. As they fear us, they hate us.
The way forward is education, so that eventually foolish outmoded ideas ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
If YOU say never it will never happen. Prediction from unqualified prophet (me)
You redeemed yourself with education. Education properly done can only be reasoned and Fair
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Looking at the posts the divide always seems to be someone else’s fault.
The skeptics could accept difference as well.
After all, we have more in common than we don’t, wouldn’t anyone say?
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@MichaelSpinler Points welll made.
Geoffrey51 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Looking at the posts the divide always seems to be someone else’s fault.
The skeptics could accept difference as well.
After all, we have more in common than we don’t, wouldn’t anyone say?
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
@MichaelSpinler Points welll made.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
MichaelSpinler comments on Nov 2, 2019:
well yeah its a special time. elections coupled with an impeachment. i am glad we are having this focus on our so called leaders.you will never get religious leaders as a whole or in great numbers to address atheist and skeptics in any fair way. they are in the business of lies and power and money. ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
If YOU say never it will never happen. Prediction from unqualified prophet (me)
MichaelSpinler comments on Nov 2, 2019:
well yeah its a special time. elections coupled with an impeachment. i am glad we are having this focus on our so called leaders.you will never get religious leaders as a whole or in great numbers to address atheist and skeptics in any fair way. they are in the business of lies and power and money. ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
If YOU say never it will never happen. Prediction from unqualified prophet (me)
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I believe that the indoctrination process which stresses, all lost soles need to be saved is the start of the problem. From that comes a "duty" to save. Failure is not an option. Those that can't be saved are to be reviled as satanic or sub-human.
That's a hard nut to crack.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
PREACHER "Save all these loose women"
BYSTANDER " Save one for me ,mate"
Try it with Humor?
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I believe that the indoctrination process which stresses, all lost soles need to be saved is the start of the problem. From that comes a "duty" to save. Failure is not an option. Those that can't be saved are to be reviled as satanic or sub-human.
That's a hard nut to crack.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
PREACHER "Save all these loose women"
BYSTANDER " Save one for me ,mate"
Try it with Humor?
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Ellen-SoCal comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Seems to me that the outcome of religious leaders is to have "sheeple" who are willing to part with $$$ (tithing) and who are malleable enough to keep doing so. Atheists by their very nature aren't malleable to dogma, and therefore of no use to religious leaders.
In fact, our existence offers an...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
We will never be sheep. We got where we are under our own steam
Ellen-SoCal comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Seems to me that the outcome of religious leaders is to have "sheeple" who are willing to part with $$$ (tithing) and who are malleable enough to keep doing so. Atheists by their very nature aren't malleable to dogma, and therefore of no use to religious leaders.
In fact, our existence offers an...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
We will never be sheep. We got where we are under our own steam
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
KKGator comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I do not believe it's possible.
Religious "leaders" fear skeptics and non-believers. We're a direct threat
to their revenue stream.
They have no interest in "balanced and fair".
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
But I have aninterestr un Blkanced and Fair and you COULD have too.
KKGator comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I do not believe it's possible.
Religious "leaders" fear skeptics and non-believers. We're a direct threat
to their revenue stream.
They have no interest in "balanced and fair".
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
But I have aninterestr un Blkanced and Fair and you COULD have too.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
SenorRotten comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I can't see any way to convince people to work together for the common good because people all have different ideas of what that is. It's like trying to herd wet cats, I imagine. The religionists want to push their own agenda. as does every political party and in a sense, that's a terrible way of ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
Why do we need leaders for change after an initial direction hike? In the end WE do it.
SenorRotten comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I can't see any way to convince people to work together for the common good because people all have different ideas of what that is. It's like trying to herd wet cats, I imagine. The religionists want to push their own agenda. as does every political party and in a sense, that's a terrible way of ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
Why do we need leaders for change after an initial direction hike? In the end WE do it.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
But they will keep churning out the same old stufff until we show them better (for all humans that is). Until we actually start there is no telling when and if any progress will be made. Please tell me if I am preaching in the replies below,
Storm1752 comments on Nov 3, 2019:
Oh please...get them to be nice to US???
I wouldn't say we're particularly nice to THEM, would you??? And for good reason!
With exceptions, like Unitarian Universalists and a few other progressive churches, it'd be better for all concerned if they'd all just disappear.
I could care less what ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
But they will keep churning out the same old stufff until we show them better (for all humans that is). Until we actually start there is no telling when and if any progress will be made. Please tell me if I am preaching in the replies below,
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
Because I have faith in Humans
Davesnothere comments on Nov 3, 2019:
"My question is how can we persuade religious leaders to start approaching the skeptic community in a balanced and fair way."
Why would you expect or even hope for that. ALL religion is tribal at some level, and because I do not believe their claim, I am by default NOT of that tribe. It does ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 3, 2019:
Because I have faith in Humans
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
@Allamanda For the purpose of comaprison only - not saying they are better. I am convinced that there are fair religious people some of whom are logical and reasonable
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
@Allamanda For the purpose of comaprison only - not saying they are better. I am convinced that there are fair religious people some of whom are logical and reasonable
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
there's a very good org. called Interfaith - https://www.interfaith.org/ - which I have found quite accepting of people with none, or at least no dogma, as in UU groups, and secular charities.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
@Allamanda Peace is one thing beliefs in religion are another - there are some peaceful religions but not all. However I suggest that as many people as possible looks at the wpifoundation to examine their techniques and even try them out
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
there's a very good org. called Interfaith - https://www.interfaith.org/ - which I have found quite accepting of people with none, or at least no dogma, as in UU groups, and secular charities.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
@Allamanda Peace is one thing beliefs in religion are another - there are some peaceful religions but not all. However I suggest that as many people as possible looks at the wpifoundation to examine their techniques and even try them out
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
jlynn37 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Verifiable, falsifiable, evidence, facts and data is always a necessary ingredient to substantiate any claim.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
@jlynn37 Not that we would accept them?
jlynn37 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Verifiable, falsifiable, evidence, facts and data is always a necessary ingredient to substantiate any claim.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
@jlynn37 Not that we would accept them?
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Fernapple comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I think that there is an impossible gulf, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort and loss of joy the winning of it requires." While the faithful ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
Obvious differences in approach,but it is best to try to adopt your enemies' tactics is it not? - if only to examine if it works for you??
Fernapple comments on Nov 2, 2019:
I think that there is an impossible gulf, not in the quality of thinking but in its style, which could never be bridged. Because the sceptic approaches truth, thinking that. "It will be best won if I do not care how much discomfort and loss of joy the winning of it requires." While the faithful ...
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
Obvious differences in approach,but it is best to try to adopt your enemies' tactics is it not? - if only to examine if it works for you??
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
We have little chance of getting anywhere if we start by naming what we think are faults (and they think the best of)
moosepucky comments on Nov 2, 2019:
They would have to change their perceptions.
Most are too sure of their "righteousness" to even consider rational thinking.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
We have little chance of getting anywhere if we start by naming what we think are faults (and they think the best of)
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
there's a very good org. called Interfaith - https://www.interfaith.org/ - which I have found quite accepting of people with none, or at least no dogma, as in UU groups, and secular charities.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
Thanks for this . There are such organisations in the UK and I once was in one. We had good fair discussions in the committee meetings but when the leader was in front of his/her flock they could not give an inch.
Allamanda comments on Nov 2, 2019:
there's a very good org. called Interfaith - https://www.interfaith.org/ - which I have found quite accepting of people with none, or at least no dogma, as in UU groups, and secular charities.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
Thanks for this . There are such organisations in the UK and I once was in one. We had good fair discussions in the committee meetings but when the leader was in front of his/her flock they could not give an inch.
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
oldFloyd comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Asking the unbalanced to be balanced I wonder how that works out. 🤔😣
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
Why NOT try?
oldFloyd comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Asking the unbalanced to be balanced I wonder how that works out. 🤔😣
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
Why NOT try?
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
Mb_Man comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Good luck.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
G.Thanks
Mb_Man comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Good luck.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
G.Thanks
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
jlynn37 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Verifiable, falsifiable, evidence, facts and data is always a necessary ingredient to substantiate any claim.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
True but waht about 'Alternative facts'?
jlynn37 comments on Nov 2, 2019:
Verifiable, falsifiable, evidence, facts and data is always a necessary ingredient to substantiate any claim.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
True but waht about 'Alternative facts'?
We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.
genessa comments on Nov 2, 2019:
i don't understand the question. why would i want to persuade religious leaders of anything at all? (you're talking about christians, of course, and i have never been a christian, and know no christian leaders.) what do you mean by doing their best for people?
g
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
I am sure that they want to do the best for people - excpt the evil ones and money grabbers of course.
They just got it wrong and how do we tell them or get us to treat us fairly?
genessa comments on Nov 2, 2019:
i don't understand the question. why would i want to persuade religious leaders of anything at all? (you're talking about christians, of course, and i have never been a christian, and know no christian leaders.) what do you mean by doing their best for people?
g
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
I am sure that they want to do the best for people - excpt the evil ones and money grabbers of course.
They just got it wrong and how do we tell them or get us to treat us fairly?
What is non-religious but spiritual?
CallMeDave comments on Nov 1, 2019:
Being non-religious does not preclude accepting the possibility of spirituality. It might mean one is not inclined to stand up in a church and sang (sic) about it.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
If you like science you would not like spirituality. Science can carry you much further forward. In whatever belief you decide to adopt.
CallMeDave comments on Nov 1, 2019:
Being non-religious does not preclude accepting the possibility of spirituality. It might mean one is not inclined to stand up in a church and sang (sic) about it.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 2, 2019:
If you like science you would not like spirituality. Science can carry you much further forward. In whatever belief you decide to adopt.
I'm agnostic & somewhat spiritual but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to talk about it.
Wurlitzer comments on Nov 1, 2019:
My apologies in advance for anyone who inevitably feels they need to rip you a new one over your use of the word spiritual. I don’t believe in spirits either, but I know what you mean, and welcome.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 1, 2019:
@RichardWright What about those who languish painfully in other beliefs?
Wurlitzer comments on Nov 1, 2019:
My apologies in advance for anyone who inevitably feels they need to rip you a new one over your use of the word spiritual. I don’t believe in spirits either, but I know what you mean, and welcome.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 1, 2019:
@RichardWright What about those who languish painfully in other beliefs?
I'm agnostic & somewhat spiritual but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to talk about it.
David1955 comments on Nov 1, 2019:
Okay. Consider these subjects closed, from your point of view. :-)
But, it's a strange definition of agnosticism, and I've heard some doozies around here over the time.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 1, 2019:
@RichardWright You are an utilitarian and I respect you.
David1955 comments on Nov 1, 2019:
Okay. Consider these subjects closed, from your point of view. :-)
But, it's a strange definition of agnosticism, and I've heard some doozies around here over the time.
Mcflewster replies on Nov 1, 2019:
@RichardWright You are an utilitarian and I respect you.
[youtu.
Mcflewster comments on Oct 31, 2019:
You are as good as spotify - which I do not have. You obviously keep up well with your young relatives.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Marionville really I mostly watch the newspaper commentary. It saves me money by not having to buy them.
Mcflewster comments on Oct 31, 2019:
You are as good as spotify - which I do not have. You obviously keep up well with your young relatives.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Marionville really I mostly watch the newspaper commentary. It saves me money by not having to buy them.
I am going to get my reward in heaven.
HankSherman comments on Oct 31, 2019:
Good for you, long as you're not scamming others....no need to tell, none of anyone elses business
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
Confession: I am scamming about saying that heaven will reward me, but that is just how others really believe heaven is for rewards.
HankSherman comments on Oct 31, 2019:
Good for you, long as you're not scamming others....no need to tell, none of anyone elses business
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
Confession: I am scamming about saying that heaven will reward me, but that is just how others really believe heaven is for rewards.
[youtu.
Mcflewster comments on Oct 31, 2019:
You are as good as spotify - which I do not have. You obviously keep up well with your young relatives.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Marionville I like Jeremy's Program but prefer ann Diamond and missed the one you are talking about.
Mcflewster comments on Oct 31, 2019:
You are as good as spotify - which I do not have. You obviously keep up well with your young relatives.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Marionville I like Jeremy's Program but prefer ann Diamond and missed the one you are talking about.
12 December election is going to play havoc with MPs Christmas card lists!
Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:
I think that a fixed date election every year would be a good thing, and Dec 25th would work really well. After all for some reason most people do not work that day, no where is open and people get bored with nothing to do.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Red_Cat Confession : I am not Bot savy.
Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:
I think that a fixed date election every year would be a good thing, and Dec 25th would work really well. After all for some reason most people do not work that day, no where is open and people get bored with nothing to do.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Red_Cat Confession : I am not Bot savy.
12 December election is going to play havoc with MPs Christmas card lists!
Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:
I think that a fixed date election every year would be a good thing, and Dec 25th would work really well. After all for some reason most people do not work that day, no where is open and people get bored with nothing to do.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Red_Cat Someone counted the number of times Bercow said "Order,Order". Fancy doing the same for each different election catch phrase. A bot could do it!
Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:
I think that a fixed date election every year would be a good thing, and Dec 25th would work really well. After all for some reason most people do not work that day, no where is open and people get bored with nothing to do.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Red_Cat Someone counted the number of times Bercow said "Order,Order". Fancy doing the same for each different election catch phrase. A bot could do it!
12 December then.
Marionville comments on Oct 29, 2019:
It won’t settle the Brexit issue. We needed to get a people’s vote on the deal proposed by Boris v remaining in the EU, before we had a General Election.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
"It won’t settle the Brexit issue". is this why Corbyn is offering a second Brexit election [clean slate and everything] AFTER he has won the general election?
Marionville comments on Oct 29, 2019:
It won’t settle the Brexit issue. We needed to get a people’s vote on the deal proposed by Boris v remaining in the EU, before we had a General Election.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
"It won’t settle the Brexit issue". is this why Corbyn is offering a second Brexit election [clean slate and everything] AFTER he has won the general election?
What is the purpose of this site?
Cutiebeauty comments on Oct 30, 2019:
It's a community for atheists and agnostics to speak freely without being judged for our non belief in god's...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Sealybobo Arguing is 'old hat' discussion or dialogue is the new learning tool.
https://humanism.org.uk/community/dialogue-with-others/
Cutiebeauty comments on Oct 30, 2019:
It's a community for atheists and agnostics to speak freely without being judged for our non belief in god's...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
@Sealybobo Arguing is 'old hat' discussion or dialogue is the new learning tool.
https://humanism.org.uk/community/dialogue-with-others/
What is the purpose of this site?
Lorajay comments on Oct 30, 2019:
Like anyplace else it is what you want it to be.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
Brick by Brick (in UK & Europe) . Plank by plank in US.
Lorajay comments on Oct 30, 2019:
Like anyplace else it is what you want it to be.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
Brick by Brick (in UK & Europe) . Plank by plank in US.
What do you think?
✖
St-Sinner comments on Oct 30, 2019:
Fully agree. Well said.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
Not mine of course just passing it on
St-Sinner comments on Oct 30, 2019:
Fully agree. Well said.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 31, 2019:
Not mine of course just passing it on
Do you believe this chap?
MLinoge comments on Oct 30, 2019:
When the American empire starts to contract, REALLY contract, and lots of people embrace their fear, anger and self-righteousness, religion will probably surge back. it caters to our base weaknesses. In a time of crisis, if they are incapable - as many are - to form social bonds and join communities...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 30, 2019:
There is much wisdom here but I would be expecting a fight back - it goes on all the time. It is particularly worrying when they produce more children as a fight back who will most certainly be very definitely brainwashed. The key is to use observance of the decline, analyse its significance and make sure that even greater pressure gets put on the religions.
MLinoge comments on Oct 30, 2019:
When the American empire starts to contract, REALLY contract, and lots of people embrace their fear, anger and self-righteousness, religion will probably surge back. it caters to our base weaknesses. In a time of crisis, if they are incapable - as many are - to form social bonds and join communities...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 30, 2019:
There is much wisdom here but I would be expecting a fight back - it goes on all the time. It is particularly worrying when they produce more children as a fight back who will most certainly be very definitely brainwashed. The key is to use observance of the decline, analyse its significance and make sure that even greater pressure gets put on the religions.
Do you believe this chap?
Davesnothere comments on Oct 28, 2019:
When he talks about there being no way back for religion, I think "which one"?
If you mean the "classical" religions of today, Christianity and so forth, I believe he is correct, there will be, generation by generation a decline.
That does not address things like scientology, which was created in ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 30, 2019:
@AnneWimsey How can we seal his demise in history?
Davesnothere comments on Oct 28, 2019:
When he talks about there being no way back for religion, I think "which one"?
If you mean the "classical" religions of today, Christianity and so forth, I believe he is correct, there will be, generation by generation a decline.
That does not address things like scientology, which was created in ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 30, 2019:
@AnneWimsey How can we seal his demise in history?
I am going to get my reward in heaven.
Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:
I know. You have started your own church and people are giving you lots of money, right ?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 30, 2019:
How on earth did you deduce that only from the text I gave you? You and I (plus everyone else) will never know that I will or will not get a reward in heaven. Just pointing out the emptiness of making promises that no one knows or verifies. Also you can find on google no record of any prophet assessments and successes with my name on them. Just about know that the sun will set at dusk today.
Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:
I know. You have started your own church and people are giving you lots of money, right ?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 30, 2019:
How on earth did you deduce that only from the text I gave you? You and I (plus everyone else) will never know that I will or will not get a reward in heaven. Just pointing out the emptiness of making promises that no one knows or verifies. Also you can find on google no record of any prophet assessments and successes with my name on them. Just about know that the sun will set at dusk today.
Do you believe this chap?
Allamanda comments on Oct 28, 2019:
if we knew of one, would we be shouting about it?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 29, 2019:
To oppose it.
Allamanda comments on Oct 28, 2019:
if we knew of one, would we be shouting about it?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 29, 2019:
To oppose it.
Do you believe this chap?
Davesnothere comments on Oct 28, 2019:
When he talks about there being no way back for religion, I think "which one"?
If you mean the "classical" religions of today, Christianity and so forth, I believe he is correct, there will be, generation by generation a decline.
That does not address things like scientology, which was created in ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 29, 2019:
Scientology: Most people in the UK think they are deranged.
Davesnothere comments on Oct 28, 2019:
When he talks about there being no way back for religion, I think "which one"?
If you mean the "classical" religions of today, Christianity and so forth, I believe he is correct, there will be, generation by generation a decline.
That does not address things like scientology, which was created in ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 29, 2019:
Scientology: Most people in the UK think they are deranged.
Do you believe this chap?
Norman347 comments on Oct 29, 2019:
There will always be religion. We are hard wired for superstitious and faith based beliefs. And if you don't think Atheist is a religion then you haven't taken a close look at what they believe.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 29, 2019:
There will always be religion if we do nothing.No such thing as hard wiring at least in babies. Atheism is a simple one line fact about a person's belief - nothing wrong with that for individual persons but it could never be a religion which requires all it's people to accept immutable conclusions.
Norman347 comments on Oct 29, 2019:
There will always be religion. We are hard wired for superstitious and faith based beliefs. And if you don't think Atheist is a religion then you haven't taken a close look at what they believe.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 29, 2019:
There will always be religion if we do nothing.No such thing as hard wiring at least in babies. Atheism is a simple one line fact about a person's belief - nothing wrong with that for individual persons but it could never be a religion which requires all it's people to accept immutable conclusions.
[agnostic.com]
Mcflewster comments on Oct 27, 2019:
Does this also apply to logic?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 28, 2019:
@Fernapple I suppose it is largely personal but can it be made verifyable against any known standard excluding the Bible and other religious laws and writings ?
Mcflewster comments on Oct 27, 2019:
Does this also apply to logic?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 28, 2019:
@Fernapple I suppose it is largely personal but can it be made verifyable against any known standard excluding the Bible and other religious laws and writings ?
Does this help?[agnostic.com]
HankSherman comments on Oct 27, 2019:
Of course......words have meanings...unless you're speaking the language of religion.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 28, 2019:
Good point. Their meanings are for a purpose so that you interpret them in their way.
HankSherman comments on Oct 27, 2019:
Of course......words have meanings...unless you're speaking the language of religion.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 28, 2019:
Good point. Their meanings are for a purpose so that you interpret them in their way.
Does this help?[agnostic.com]
David1955 comments on Oct 26, 2019:
These tables that plot a spectrum of agnostic - atheist - theist positions have always amused me. Some seem to really like them. Me, well i did some serious reading and thinking on the subject a long time ago and determined that I am an atheist. Now if anyone comes up with some evidence that is ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 27, 2019:
Anything that helps you to find yourself must be worth the paper or computer it is written on, but possibly not much more. Can you see why it has to be two dimensional? You seem to be on the way. What would a three dimensional one look like ?
David1955 comments on Oct 26, 2019:
These tables that plot a spectrum of agnostic - atheist - theist positions have always amused me. Some seem to really like them. Me, well i did some serious reading and thinking on the subject a long time ago and determined that I am an atheist. Now if anyone comes up with some evidence that is ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 27, 2019:
Anything that helps you to find yourself must be worth the paper or computer it is written on, but possibly not much more. Can you see why it has to be two dimensional? You seem to be on the way. What would a three dimensional one look like ?
Does this help?[agnostic.com]
Matias comments on Oct 27, 2019:
That looks neat and tidy - but it does not capture real life.
(What is the difference in real life between 99% and 100% ?
Can anybody measure the difference)
Mcflewster replies on Oct 27, 2019:
several million people.
Matias comments on Oct 27, 2019:
That looks neat and tidy - but it does not capture real life.
(What is the difference in real life between 99% and 100% ?
Can anybody measure the difference)
Mcflewster replies on Oct 27, 2019:
several million people.
Has this season of Brexit jumped the shark?
LenHazell53 comments on Oct 26, 2019:
The serious problem with this attitude is that it is exactly how a significant minority of people ARE treating the who brexit mess AS A GAME.
It is not a game
it is the future of the nation
It is the lives and wellbeing of our families
it is the economic future
The encouragement of people ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 26, 2019:
@MattHardy But the most Human thing I can possibly do is find out how, why and when I can possibly change my mind
How: SAY it out loud to as many people as possible.
WHY: I have examined each facet of BREXIT and researched and enquired with polls about each one separately and drawn separate conclusions together in summing up what is really best for the country, NOT an individual and NOT a party. (NB this is the best course for an MP and MEP + Ireland, Scotland and Wales
WHEN ...... NOW.
LenHazell53 comments on Oct 26, 2019:
The serious problem with this attitude is that it is exactly how a significant minority of people ARE treating the who brexit mess AS A GAME.
It is not a game
it is the future of the nation
It is the lives and wellbeing of our families
it is the economic future
The encouragement of people ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 26, 2019:
@MattHardy But the most Human thing I can possibly do is find out how, why and when I can possibly change my mind
How: SAY it out loud to as many people as possible.
WHY: I have examined each facet of BREXIT and researched and enquired with polls about each one separately and drawn separate conclusions together in summing up what is really best for the country, NOT an individual and NOT a party. (NB this is the best course for an MP and MEP + Ireland, Scotland and Wales
WHEN ...... NOW.
SHOULD AGNOSTICS & ATHEISTS CELEBRATE HALLOWEEN?
callmedubious comments on Oct 24, 2019:
can't believe all the responses which such a dumb, inane question elicited.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 26, 2019:
If we could separate folk law ,and all its associated 'beliefs' from religion we would have made great strides in fully understanding religion and the getting of rid of it. "Tales at my mother's knee" are buried the deepest of all.
callmedubious comments on Oct 24, 2019:
can't believe all the responses which such a dumb, inane question elicited.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 26, 2019:
If we could separate folk law ,and all its associated 'beliefs' from religion we would have made great strides in fully understanding religion and the getting of rid of it. "Tales at my mother's knee" are buried the deepest of all.
If I had written down all the posts that I ever thought of I would be on level 9 by now - or close.
Cutiebeauty comments on Oct 23, 2019:
Actually, writing down a topic without posting it gets you no points lol
Level 9 isn't that easy... At some point, you don't gain points when members reply to your posts.. each points category maxes out until you reach the next level... Best way to level up is to make more replies and comments....
Mcflewster replies on Oct 23, 2019:
Thanks for the tips
Cutiebeauty comments on Oct 23, 2019:
Actually, writing down a topic without posting it gets you no points lol
Level 9 isn't that easy... At some point, you don't gain points when members reply to your posts.. each points category maxes out until you reach the next level... Best way to level up is to make more replies and comments....
Mcflewster replies on Oct 23, 2019:
Thanks for the tips
If I had written down all the posts that I ever thought of I would be on level 9 by now - or close.
Fernapple comments on Oct 23, 2019:
I don't. I think of a really great post in the middle of the day when working, and when I sit down at the computer in the evening I have completely forgotten it. Getting old, guess I should carry a notepad or smart phone. Nah, too much bother.
PS. You don't want to get to level nine, that is when...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 23, 2019:
I am looking forward to your PS
Fernapple comments on Oct 23, 2019:
I don't. I think of a really great post in the middle of the day when working, and when I sit down at the computer in the evening I have completely forgotten it. Getting old, guess I should carry a notepad or smart phone. Nah, too much bother.
PS. You don't want to get to level nine, that is when...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 23, 2019:
I am looking forward to your PS
SHOULD AGNOSTICS & ATHEISTS CELEBRATE HALLOWEEN?
Mcflewster comments on Oct 22, 2019:
It is folklaw and culture so therefore must be cultivated and examined. It was the only thing that legitimately put us on our guard with a bit of fun. Actually there were no laws involved . THEN they didn't need any.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 23, 2019:
@genessa Thank you so much for being forward and honest with me. Thank you for the correction. Not my best point.
Mcflewster comments on Oct 22, 2019:
It is folklaw and culture so therefore must be cultivated and examined. It was the only thing that legitimately put us on our guard with a bit of fun. Actually there were no laws involved . THEN they didn't need any.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 23, 2019:
@genessa Thank you so much for being forward and honest with me. Thank you for the correction. Not my best point.
THE CONCEPT OF NOTHING.
brentan comments on Oct 20, 2019:
That's how I understood Lawrence Krauss' book A Universe From Nothing. He seemed to be saying nothing is possibly a backdrop on which to 'hang' things, for want of a better word.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
@brentan good suggestion but are we just playing with words. They are all we have I suppose.
brentan comments on Oct 20, 2019:
That's how I understood Lawrence Krauss' book A Universe From Nothing. He seemed to be saying nothing is possibly a backdrop on which to 'hang' things, for want of a better word.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
@brentan good suggestion but are we just playing with words. They are all we have I suppose.
THE CONCEPT OF NOTHING.
Mcflewster comments on Oct 20, 2019:
It really is not possible to prove that any space contains nothing. There are possibilities of new forms of wave energy or undetectable(as yet) particles that are passing unhindered or unseen by any known means yet available. I was going to say that the detector of something new would have to be ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
@yvilletom I am convinced that all science is mathematics, but do not assume that you know everything about it just because you give it a symbol. It is just the start.
Mcflewster comments on Oct 20, 2019:
It really is not possible to prove that any space contains nothing. There are possibilities of new forms of wave energy or undetectable(as yet) particles that are passing unhindered or unseen by any known means yet available. I was going to say that the detector of something new would have to be ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
@yvilletom I am convinced that all science is mathematics, but do not assume that you know everything about it just because you give it a symbol. It is just the start.
THE CONCEPT OF NOTHING.
nicknotes comments on Oct 20, 2019:
Christians falsely claim the universe started from "nothing." Scientists know that matter and energy have always existed.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
Good succinct answer.
nicknotes comments on Oct 20, 2019:
Christians falsely claim the universe started from "nothing." Scientists know that matter and energy have always existed.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
Good succinct answer.
THE CONCEPT OF NOTHING.
WeaZ comments on Oct 21, 2019:
As soon as you explain nothing, or demonstration nothing, then you are in fact explaining & demonstrating “something.”
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
That is a reply which just chases its own tail. Like 'Brexit means Brexit'
WeaZ comments on Oct 21, 2019:
As soon as you explain nothing, or demonstration nothing, then you are in fact explaining & demonstrating “something.”
Mcflewster replies on Oct 21, 2019:
That is a reply which just chases its own tail. Like 'Brexit means Brexit'
THE CONCEPT OF NOTHING.
brentan comments on Oct 20, 2019:
That's how I understood Lawrence Krauss' book A Universe From Nothing. He seemed to be saying nothing is possibly a backdrop on which to 'hang' things, for want of a better word.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 20, 2019:
If there was nothing to literally hang things, presumably they would fall somewhere, but where? up or down?
brentan comments on Oct 20, 2019:
That's how I understood Lawrence Krauss' book A Universe From Nothing. He seemed to be saying nothing is possibly a backdrop on which to 'hang' things, for want of a better word.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 20, 2019:
If there was nothing to literally hang things, presumably they would fall somewhere, but where? up or down?
Watch this space.
Marionville comments on Oct 19, 2019:
Update....We have just had a very interesting analysis of Boris’s deal by Sir Keir Starmer the Labour Shadow Brexit Secretary. He used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions and his legal forensic brain has shot holes through this deal.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 20, 2019:
@Marionville Thanks for your succinct analysis. I hail from a small Island not too far from Ireland. It has special but not clear[ to me] arrangement . I congratulate anyone who is preserving the status quo so that we can ALL decide when in the future we would want a change as big as this and how we would actually change it.Having said that I would rather be changing the EU. In a way it is good that the Breakfast DEBACLE(is that the word?) HAS happened . It SHOULD prompt ALL to be revised.
Marionville comments on Oct 19, 2019:
Update....We have just had a very interesting analysis of Boris’s deal by Sir Keir Starmer the Labour Shadow Brexit Secretary. He used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions and his legal forensic brain has shot holes through this deal.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 20, 2019:
@Marionville Thanks for your succinct analysis. I hail from a small Island not too far from Ireland. It has special but not clear[ to me] arrangement . I congratulate anyone who is preserving the status quo so that we can ALL decide when in the future we would want a change as big as this and how we would actually change it.Having said that I would rather be changing the EU. In a way it is good that the Breakfast DEBACLE(is that the word?) HAS happened . It SHOULD prompt ALL to be revised.
Watch this space.
Marionville comments on Oct 19, 2019:
Update....We have just had a very interesting analysis of Boris’s deal by Sir Keir Starmer the Labour Shadow Brexit Secretary. He used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions and his legal forensic brain has shot holes through this deal.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 19, 2019:
Can you explain why NI would reject the deal?
Marionville comments on Oct 19, 2019:
Update....We have just had a very interesting analysis of Boris’s deal by Sir Keir Starmer the Labour Shadow Brexit Secretary. He used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions and his legal forensic brain has shot holes through this deal.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 19, 2019:
Can you explain why NI would reject the deal?
Terry Eagleton Interview - Thanks, Matias for inroducing him here.
Fascinating!
[youtube.com]
Mcflewster comments on Oct 17, 2019:
More examples of his thoughts please !
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 Wow!
Mcflewster comments on Oct 17, 2019:
More examples of his thoughts please !
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 Wow!
Terry Eagleton Interview - Thanks, Matias for inroducing him here.
Fascinating!
[youtube.com]
Mcflewster comments on Oct 17, 2019:
More examples of his thoughts please !
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
@Spinliesel Thanks
Mcflewster comments on Oct 17, 2019:
More examples of his thoughts please !
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
@Spinliesel Thanks
I believe that faith is a human construct but essential for humans to be able to get on with your ...
bleurowz comments on Oct 16, 2019:
Good points. I feel that faith is important until you know. But don't rule out knowing when it becomes available. Case in point, to use your example: predators tend to have forward-facing eyes, while prey tend to have side-facing eyes. That's usually how you can tell the difference.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
Good science.
bleurowz comments on Oct 16, 2019:
Good points. I feel that faith is important until you know. But don't rule out knowing when it becomes available. Case in point, to use your example: predators tend to have forward-facing eyes, while prey tend to have side-facing eyes. That's usually how you can tell the difference.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
Good science.
Extradite or NOT?
webspider555 comments on Oct 16, 2019:
I bet it would have been very different had it been the other way round!
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
Perceptive !
webspider555 comments on Oct 16, 2019:
I bet it would have been very different had it been the other way round!
Mcflewster replies on Oct 17, 2019:
Perceptive !
"What marks modernist thought above all is the belief that human existence is contingent - that it ...
girlwithsmiles comments on Oct 15, 2019:
Cut out the last 8 words and it's a nice piece ;)
Mcflewster replies on Oct 16, 2019:
Keep the last 8 words Sorry
girlwithsmiles comments on Oct 15, 2019:
Cut out the last 8 words and it's a nice piece ;)
Mcflewster replies on Oct 16, 2019:
Keep the last 8 words Sorry
I believe that faith is a human construct but essential for humans to be able to get on with your ...
MsAl comments on Oct 15, 2019:
Well said. I think the problem is organizing and enforcing faith. Like you said it is essential just to get by. It would be impossible to have the proof of everything one thinks they know. It becomes a problem when we are taught not to question it.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
Well said You.
MsAl comments on Oct 15, 2019:
Well said. I think the problem is organizing and enforcing faith. Like you said it is essential just to get by. It would be impossible to have the proof of everything one thinks they know. It becomes a problem when we are taught not to question it.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
Well said You.
I believe that faith is a human construct but essential for humans to be able to get on with your ...
Allamanda comments on Oct 15, 2019:
Could you delete the other 2 copies of this post PLEASE?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
Passed to admin
Allamanda comments on Oct 15, 2019:
Could you delete the other 2 copies of this post PLEASE?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
Passed to admin
I believe that faith is a human construct but essential for humans to be able to get on with your ...
DenoPenno comments on Oct 15, 2019:
I do not look at any of the above as "faith." On a personal level I will take Mark Twain's definition of it that "faith is believing what you know is not so."
I do not have "faith" that a dropped ball will fall to the floor, nor "faith" that my brakes will stop my car. In the case of your large ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
Well argued but I stick to my beliefs about Faith.
DenoPenno comments on Oct 15, 2019:
I do not look at any of the above as "faith." On a personal level I will take Mark Twain's definition of it that "faith is believing what you know is not so."
I do not have "faith" that a dropped ball will fall to the floor, nor "faith" that my brakes will stop my car. In the case of your large ...
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
Well argued but I stick to my beliefs about Faith.
If there is an ‘emergency’ sitting of the House on Saturday, I wonder how many MPs will have ...
Marionville comments on Oct 14, 2019:
Nobody knows from one day to the next what is happening....Saturday is a long way off!
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 Makes me think that I have longer to live ... not really.
Marionville comments on Oct 14, 2019:
Nobody knows from one day to the next what is happening....Saturday is a long way off!
Mcflewster replies on Oct 15, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 Makes me think that I have longer to live ... not really.
I do NOT want to be SOLD anything,including BREXIT by dodgy salespersons.
Simon1 comments on Oct 14, 2019:
Bendy bananas and bendy cucumbers, chips in newspapers again what more do you want ???
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Marionville I am colour blind [well a particular type]. I have no faith in my colour judgement
Simon1 comments on Oct 14, 2019:
Bendy bananas and bendy cucumbers, chips in newspapers again what more do you want ???
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Marionville I am colour blind [well a particular type]. I have no faith in my colour judgement
I do NOT want to be SOLD anything,including BREXIT by dodgy salespersons.
Sofabeast comments on Oct 14, 2019:
I'll see if I can come up with a viable Brexit argument. It may take some time, probably longer than Brexit in fact. But I'll try.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Sofabeast Soverignty does not pass between EU an UKand vice versa.
it is shared.
Sofabeast comments on Oct 14, 2019:
I'll see if I can come up with a viable Brexit argument. It may take some time, probably longer than Brexit in fact. But I'll try.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Sofabeast Soverignty does not pass between EU an UKand vice versa.
it is shared.
I do NOT want to be SOLD anything,including BREXIT by dodgy salespersons.
Sofabeast comments on Oct 14, 2019:
I'll see if I can come up with a viable Brexit argument. It may take some time, probably longer than Brexit in fact. But I'll try.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
Best of luck !
Sofabeast comments on Oct 14, 2019:
I'll see if I can come up with a viable Brexit argument. It may take some time, probably longer than Brexit in fact. But I'll try.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
Best of luck !
I do NOT want to be SOLD anything,including BREXIT by dodgy salespersons.
Simon1 comments on Oct 14, 2019:
Bendy bananas and bendy cucumbers, chips in newspapers again what more do you want ???
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
These are myths about regulation. Are you a shopkeeper? who hates decimalisation too? There is nothing wrong with agreed regulation it protects us !!!. You can always bend a banana to some different shape but straight ones get here cheaper as do corgettes
Simon1 comments on Oct 14, 2019:
Bendy bananas and bendy cucumbers, chips in newspapers again what more do you want ???
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
These are myths about regulation. Are you a shopkeeper? who hates decimalisation too? There is nothing wrong with agreed regulation it protects us !!!. You can always bend a banana to some different shape but straight ones get here cheaper as do corgettes
Why are you a humanist?
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve Points taken. Honest.
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve Points taken. Honest.
Why are you a humanist?
CS60 comments on Oct 14, 2019:
It just dawned on me that Humanist.com and Agnostic.com mirror each other. So, this gentleman may have posted to Humnaist.com and not realized it cross posted to Agnostic.com
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
This happened to me too! Ask admin for reasoning?
CS60 comments on Oct 14, 2019:
It just dawned on me that Humanist.com and Agnostic.com mirror each other. So, this gentleman may have posted to Humnaist.com and not realized it cross posted to Agnostic.com
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
This happened to me too! Ask admin for reasoning?
Why are you a humanist?
callmedubious comments on Oct 13, 2019:
i'm not. i wish i could be but just aren't likeable enough. although to be honest i think that there are way more bad ppl than good.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
So what? As long as they are Human they are in! There are bad people in every category, and as all Humans have the same basic way of getting good, the more you convert the easier it gets.
callmedubious comments on Oct 13, 2019:
i'm not. i wish i could be but just aren't likeable enough. although to be honest i think that there are way more bad ppl than good.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
So what? As long as they are Human they are in! There are bad people in every category, and as all Humans have the same basic way of getting good, the more you convert the easier it gets.
Why are you a humanist?
IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:
Am I?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@IamNobody My aim is cool ......doesn't always hit the mark!
IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:
Am I?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@IamNobody My aim is cool ......doesn't always hit the mark!
Why are you a humanist?
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve My belief, and some Humanists may not agree, is that as a Humanist I will never dismiss any person. Thank you for forgiving me. Life is ......agnostic about that at the moment
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve My belief, and some Humanists may not agree, is that as a Humanist I will never dismiss any person. Thank you for forgiving me. Life is ......agnostic about that at the moment
Why are you a humanist?
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve YOU ARE SO PERCEPTIVE but a little bit on the edge of something which is not my intention, so I apologise quite profoundly. If you re-read some of my comments I gave you the freedom to say what you want and call yourself what you want. Are you blaming me for finding out the limits of tolerance of the word Humanists even if that is dangerous. I believe in you and that is all you need to know at this stage. This spat or whatever you want to call it can be ended by telling me your beliefs OR pointing me to a few best posts?? Olive Branch ?? After all I am only Human.
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve YOU ARE SO PERCEPTIVE but a little bit on the edge of something which is not my intention, so I apologise quite profoundly. If you re-read some of my comments I gave you the freedom to say what you want and call yourself what you want. Are you blaming me for finding out the limits of tolerance of the word Humanists even if that is dangerous. I believe in you and that is all you need to know at this stage. This spat or whatever you want to call it can be ended by telling me your beliefs OR pointing me to a few best posts?? Olive Branch ?? After all I am only Human.
Why are you a humanist?
Seeker3CO comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I was going to be flippant and say because I'm a human... but I know it is not that easy. I'm also a Gaiaist, a Naturalist, an Existentialist, a Scientist, an Elitist. Lots of ists.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
All of those are INSIDE Humanism
Seeker3CO comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I was going to be flippant and say because I'm a human... but I know it is not that easy. I'm also a Gaiaist, a Naturalist, an Existentialist, a Scientist, an Elitist. Lots of ists.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
All of those are INSIDE Humanism
Why are you a humanist?
IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:
Am I?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@IamNobody Glad to be of service.
IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:
Am I?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@IamNobody Glad to be of service.
Why are you a humanist?
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve Straight and to the point. I deserved it.
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 14, 2019:
@Donotbelieve Straight and to the point. I deserved it.
Why are you a humanist?
IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:
Am I?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 13, 2019:
Humanists are not nobody. {weak} Joke.
IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:
Am I?
Mcflewster replies on Oct 13, 2019:
Humanists are not nobody. {weak} Joke.
Why are you a humanist?
VictorEhis comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I am a humanist because it gives me freedom, and I don't have to be a subject to a god who is non existent.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 13, 2019:
Top prize for simplicity.
VictorEhis comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I am a humanist because it gives me freedom, and I don't have to be a subject to a god who is non existent.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 13, 2019:
Top prize for simplicity.
Why are you a humanist?
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 13, 2019:
I do not know you and whilst you can call yourself what you want, my view is that the letters under your photo suggest a commandment. Most people have a belief.
Donotbelieve comments on Oct 13, 2019:
I have never claimed that title.
Mcflewster replies on Oct 13, 2019:
I do not know you and whilst you can call yourself what you want, my view is that the letters under your photo suggest a commandment. Most people have a belief.
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Agnostic, Humanist, Freethinker
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