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Read this on another board and thought I'd offer it up for discussion here.
Storm1752 comments on May 19, 2020:
Very good.
Reincarnation is being thoroughly investigated at the University of Virginia and it has yielded some very compelling results.
It's not necessary to believe in an old-school 'god' to speculate it might be a natural, physically-explainable phenomenon which COULD lead (as is the Buddhist ...
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@Rodatheist Just tap it out on your phone.
Storm1752 comments on May 19, 2020:
Very good.
Reincarnation is being thoroughly investigated at the University of Virginia and it has yielded some very compelling results.
It's not necessary to believe in an old-school 'god' to speculate it might be a natural, physically-explainable phenomenon which COULD lead (as is the Buddhist ...
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@Rodatheist Just tap it out on your phone.
Israel has done another land grab, approved under Trump's "Deal of the century".
Storm1752 comments on May 19, 2020:
Not familiar with that particular 'land grab.' Details?
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@powder I'm usually sympathetic to Israel...
Storm1752 comments on May 19, 2020:
Not familiar with that particular 'land grab.' Details?
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@powder I'm usually sympathetic to Israel...
Read this on another board and thought I'd offer it up for discussion here.
powder comments on May 19, 2020:
No less crazy than religious doctrine. If this was the case though, I think recycle is a better word than reincarnate. Because consciousness and memory do not seem to transfer. Plus I would like to confirm does this "spiritual" theory extend beyond homosapians? Does it envelop all life? If so, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@Sgt_Spanky, @Allamanda 'Transmigration of the soul' has it the essences lower life forms can and do migrate to higher life forms, up the ladder to humans and perhaps beyond.
powder comments on May 19, 2020:
No less crazy than religious doctrine. If this was the case though, I think recycle is a better word than reincarnate. Because consciousness and memory do not seem to transfer. Plus I would like to confirm does this "spiritual" theory extend beyond homosapians? Does it envelop all life? If so, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@Sgt_Spanky, @Allamanda 'Transmigration of the soul' has it the essences lower life forms can and do migrate to higher life forms, up the ladder to humans and perhaps beyond.
Read this on another board and thought I'd offer it up for discussion here.
powder comments on May 19, 2020:
No less crazy than religious doctrine. If this was the case though, I think recycle is a better word than reincarnate. Because consciousness and memory do not seem to transfer. Plus I would like to confirm does this "spiritual" theory extend beyond homosapians? Does it envelop all life? If so, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@Sgt_Spanky Maybe not EVERY new birth is a recycled consciousness. Some may be brand new ones.
powder comments on May 19, 2020:
No less crazy than religious doctrine. If this was the case though, I think recycle is a better word than reincarnate. Because consciousness and memory do not seem to transfer. Plus I would like to confirm does this "spiritual" theory extend beyond homosapians? Does it envelop all life? If so, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 20, 2020:
@Sgt_Spanky Maybe not EVERY new birth is a recycled consciousness. Some may be brand new ones.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 19, 2020:
@1of5 Not magical thinking. Since I'm not psychologically and emotionally invested in a BELIEF SYSTEM which demands I think a particular way, prove my case, and defend it at all costs, I'm free to express any point of view I wish. In fact, tomorrow I could be Ignostic, Pantheist, Neo-Deist or, about Abrahamic gods, even atheistic.
So try to SELL you anything? No. Usually I'm lashing out angrily at atheists for misrepresenting my agnostic opinions and insisting everything be judged in atheistic terms.
You see, I don't BELIEVE IN anything and/or BELIEVE anything. It's ALL a matter of opinion. It's not that I DON'T believe in God. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE! I DON'T BELIEVE OR NOT BELIEVE!
I'm perfectly happy discussing or arguing with or against theists or atheists.
My best conversations are with fellow Agnostics, though, because sometimes I get high like I used on LSD in the old days, it can get intricate and complicated and it can be great.
Not so much with atheists. It all turns into purple dragons in the garage or fairy cities in the clouds, ad absurdium, and it's just a frustrating bore.
But I persist because I just can't get over the stubborn bullishness and arrogant boorishness and just unengaged hardheadedness often on display.
Not always. I think 'agnostic atheists' (really more agnostic at heart I think) CAN be very interesting, because if 'god' is not at the center of the topic, they're willing to at least discuss speculation about peripheral things.
Anyway, please believe me I don't care what you think. I just care about what you think about what Agnosticism is, and it isn't--I repeat ISN'T!--about just a different way to not believe in 'god.'
Religion, yes, you have an ally there!
I believe I'll ALWAYS have an open mind about 'god' because it'll always be impossible to know one way or the other. I freely acknowledge there may be no such thing as 'god,' but after that acknowledgement, what is there to talk about. If you have something, I'm all ears.
For instance, how DO you solve the lack of reward-punishment dilemma? I've been thinking about that again lately...why do you feel guilty if you do the 'wrong thing,' as dictated by your own conscience? And isn't that a 'punishment?' And why is that guilt so hard to shake? It shouldn't matter, you'd think...(I sometimes speculate-- reincarnation is not 'off the table' for me--
punishment extends to 'karma' in subsequent lives, but that's irrelevant to this more narrow focus) but it does, doesn't it? It matters a lot. It comes out of our 'consciousness' and the mystery is where it comes from. And it isn't so easy to commit crimes, even one easily commissioned, executed, and of great personal benefit.
I think arguments themselves can be learned from if approached with the right attitude.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 19, 2020:
@1of5 Not magical thinking. Since I'm not psychologically and emotionally invested in a BELIEF SYSTEM which demands I think a particular way, prove my case, and defend it at all costs, I'm free to express any point of view I wish. In fact, tomorrow I could be Ignostic, Pantheist, Neo-Deist or, about Abrahamic gods, even atheistic.
So try to SELL you anything? No. Usually I'm lashing out angrily at atheists for misrepresenting my agnostic opinions and insisting everything be judged in atheistic terms.
You see, I don't BELIEVE IN anything and/or BELIEVE anything. It's ALL a matter of opinion. It's not that I DON'T believe in God. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE! I DON'T BELIEVE OR NOT BELIEVE!
I'm perfectly happy discussing or arguing with or against theists or atheists.
My best conversations are with fellow Agnostics, though, because sometimes I get high like I used on LSD in the old days, it can get intricate and complicated and it can be great.
Not so much with atheists. It all turns into purple dragons in the garage or fairy cities in the clouds, ad absurdium, and it's just a frustrating bore.
But I persist because I just can't get over the stubborn bullishness and arrogant boorishness and just unengaged hardheadedness often on display.
Not always. I think 'agnostic atheists' (really more agnostic at heart I think) CAN be very interesting, because if 'god' is not at the center of the topic, they're willing to at least discuss speculation about peripheral things.
Anyway, please believe me I don't care what you think. I just care about what you think about what Agnosticism is, and it isn't--I repeat ISN'T!--about just a different way to not believe in 'god.'
Religion, yes, you have an ally there!
I believe I'll ALWAYS have an open mind about 'god' because it'll always be impossible to know one way or the other. I freely acknowledge there may be no such thing as 'god,' but after that acknowledgement, what is there to talk about. If you have something, I'm all ears.
For instance, how DO you solve the lack of reward-punishment dilemma? I've been thinking about that again lately...why do you feel guilty if you do the 'wrong thing,' as dictated by your own conscience? And isn't that a 'punishment?' And why is that guilt so hard to shake? It shouldn't matter, you'd think...(I sometimes speculate-- reincarnation is not 'off the table' for me--
punishment extends to 'karma' in subsequent lives, but that's irrelevant to this more narrow focus) but it does, doesn't it? It matters a lot. It comes out of our 'consciousness' and the mystery is where it comes from. And it isn't so easy to commit crimes, even one easily commissioned, executed, and of great personal benefit.
I think arguments themselves can be learned from if approached with the right attitude.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
I don't know. Maybe because there is a cultural/religious bias? I think it probably is in some curriculums, but I've never thought of it before.
Of course that's beside the point, but I think I'll tap-tap-tap with my fingers and see if it is. The scientists I mentioned are at the University of Virginia, so they must teach. There probably are many others.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
I don't know. Maybe because there is a cultural/religious bias? I think it probably is in some curriculums, but I've never thought of it before.
Of course that's beside the point, but I think I'll tap-tap-tap with my fingers and see if it is. The scientists I mentioned are at the University of Virginia, so they must teach. There probably are many others.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@MsDemeanour These are not anecdotes. These scientists personally investigated many of these cases.
Look, if you want to have an airtight brain and not even bother to look into it, and start talking about deluded people talking to Jesus, be my guest.
But you as a result are simply casting stones from afar based on preconceptions with which you are comfortable, because they conform to your BELIEF SYSTEM, and not because you are informed on the matter at all.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@MsDemeanour These are not anecdotes. These scientists personally investigated many of these cases.
Look, if you want to have an airtight brain and not even bother to look into it, and start talking about deluded people talking to Jesus, be my guest.
But you as a result are simply casting stones from afar based on preconceptions with which you are comfortable, because they conform to your BELIEF SYSTEM, and not because you are informed on the matter at all.
Many people accuse Atheists as being “Devil worshipers or evil doers.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@Omnedon Whatever.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@Omnedon Whatever.
Many people accuse Atheists as being “Devil worshipers or evil doers.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@Omnedon It colors every aspect of your life in the same exact way.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@Omnedon It colors every aspect of your life in the same exact way.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@RiverRick You nailed it.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@RiverRick You nailed it.
Someone please save me from my conspiracy-theory-loving neighbors.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
What conspiracy? The vast right-wing one? Where they use the virus and the skyrocketing federal deficit ($4 trillion + this year) to slash Social Security and other federal departments not called Defense?
THAT conspiracy?
The conservatives have been setting the trap for an occurrence like this ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@davknight Yeah. She's ugly, too.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
What conspiracy? The vast right-wing one? Where they use the virus and the skyrocketing federal deficit ($4 trillion + this year) to slash Social Security and other federal departments not called Defense?
THAT conspiracy?
The conservatives have been setting the trap for an occurrence like this ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@davknight Yeah. She's ugly, too.
Many people accuse Atheists as being “Devil worshipers or evil doers.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@NakedTruth Why isn't a firm rejection of a belief system in ITSELF a belief system?
It isn't just the rejection itself, as if it exists in bold relief all by itself, but includes all other aspects of your orientation toward life.
Name anything which would have been colored by your religious beliefs, and it's so ALSO colored by your non-religious ones.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@NakedTruth Why isn't a firm rejection of a belief system in ITSELF a belief system?
It isn't just the rejection itself, as if it exists in bold relief all by itself, but includes all other aspects of your orientation toward life.
Name anything which would have been colored by your religious beliefs, and it's so ALSO colored by your non-religious ones.
Many people accuse Atheists as being “Devil worshipers or evil doers.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@Omnedon I disagree because a belief system is a central personal core belief, incorporating everything you've taken in from your five senses since you were born. Atheism is a central core orientation to the world. That's what a belief system is. A lack of belief in a 'god' or gods IS a very core belief, whether you care or not.
Agnosticism, incorporating the same inputs into a different matrix, SUSPENDS belief. I can detect certain basic viewpoints, like accountability for one's actions (not just being nice because you're a swell human being) and thinking there IS an explanation for it all... That's something anyway, but I don't see how that fits into a belief or unbelief in 'god.' it might have nothing to do with that.
Storm1752 comments on May 18, 2020:
Atheism is a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of god, so it's a belief system.
BUT it's also a BELIEF IN the NON-existence of Satan.
Anyway a true God wouldn't create a Satan.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@Omnedon I disagree because a belief system is a central personal core belief, incorporating everything you've taken in from your five senses since you were born. Atheism is a central core orientation to the world. That's what a belief system is. A lack of belief in a 'god' or gods IS a very core belief, whether you care or not.
Agnosticism, incorporating the same inputs into a different matrix, SUSPENDS belief. I can detect certain basic viewpoints, like accountability for one's actions (not just being nice because you're a swell human being) and thinking there IS an explanation for it all... That's something anyway, but I don't see how that fits into a belief or unbelief in 'god.' it might have nothing to do with that.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@1of5 Are you saying that's one of the bonus perks of atheism? No accountability? No hell, for sure, but NO reason whatsoever to behave ethically (except we're super nice folks)? No telling. Matter of opinion, I guess. It just doesn't seem 'right' to me.
But I do disagree how you view reality has nothing to do with how you live your life. I think it matters, whether in this life or the next (if there is one).
No, there's a HUGE difference between Agnosticism and Atheism, whether you think so or not. Seems like a lot of other people here think so, too.
I get tired of reiterating it, and I won't here and now. Doesn't seem to penetrate your belief system matrix anyway.
But I will, update and refine my points and arguments as I go.. Why, if it doesn't matter? Because
1) It DOES matter to me,
2) It helps me, I feel, get closer to 'my' truth.
3) It's fun.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@1of5 Are you saying that's one of the bonus perks of atheism? No accountability? No hell, for sure, but NO reason whatsoever to behave ethically (except we're super nice folks)? No telling. Matter of opinion, I guess. It just doesn't seem 'right' to me.
But I do disagree how you view reality has nothing to do with how you live your life. I think it matters, whether in this life or the next (if there is one).
No, there's a HUGE difference between Agnosticism and Atheism, whether you think so or not. Seems like a lot of other people here think so, too.
I get tired of reiterating it, and I won't here and now. Doesn't seem to penetrate your belief system matrix anyway.
But I will, update and refine my points and arguments as I go.. Why, if it doesn't matter? Because
1) It DOES matter to me,
2) It helps me, I feel, get closer to 'my' truth.
3) It's fun.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@MsDemeanour It always surprises me that at a time we have the internet on our phones some make statements without bothering to tap out R-E-I-N-C-A,-R-N-A-T-I-O-N and see for themselves the myriad documented cases.
Like a Thailand boy who was shot, purportedly as a teacher in his immediately preceding life, while riding his bicycle to school. He knew his prior name, BuaKai, the name of his village, his parents and wife (who confirmed the shooting and death), and was found to have birthmarks corresponding to both the entrance and exit wounds as described on the medical document obtained from the medical examiner.
This is typical, and ust one of HUNDREDS of cases studied by ONE research lab headed by Dr. Ian Stevenson, University of Virginia, and his successor, Dr. Jim Tucker.
For example, three children studied had a 92% rate of correct statements about their past lives. And these are merely examples. Dr. Stevenson personally examined 2500 CASES. Usually the children's memories persisted from age 3 to age 6, or so, then faded.
This kind or evidence won't satisfy people who insist on not accepting it for whatever reason, but anyone with an open mind would AT LEAST admit it is highly suggestive, if not compelling.
But if you are content to dismiss it all as hoaxes (like so many do with crop circles and other phenomena), and can't even be bothered to invest 10 minutes of your time to pick up your phone and LOOK, then why should I sit here tapping it out FOR you? Your mind's made up and closed as a steel drum.
For more open-minded people, this does NOT have anything to do with 'god' as popularly defined. No god required. What IS the cause? That's open to speculation. Maybe purely physical processes which may one day be detected and pinpointed.
If you don't look, however, you won't find.
Just stop saying there's NO evidence of any kind. It just isn't true
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@MsDemeanour It always surprises me that at a time we have the internet on our phones some make statements without bothering to tap out R-E-I-N-C-A,-R-N-A-T-I-O-N and see for themselves the myriad documented cases.
Like a Thailand boy who was shot, purportedly as a teacher in his immediately preceding life, while riding his bicycle to school. He knew his prior name, BuaKai, the name of his village, his parents and wife (who confirmed the shooting and death), and was found to have birthmarks corresponding to both the entrance and exit wounds as described on the medical document obtained from the medical examiner.
This is typical, and ust one of HUNDREDS of cases studied by ONE research lab headed by Dr. Ian Stevenson, University of Virginia, and his successor, Dr. Jim Tucker.
For example, three children studied had a 92% rate of correct statements about their past lives. And these are merely examples. Dr. Stevenson personally examined 2500 CASES. Usually the children's memories persisted from age 3 to age 6, or so, then faded.
This kind or evidence won't satisfy people who insist on not accepting it for whatever reason, but anyone with an open mind would AT LEAST admit it is highly suggestive, if not compelling.
But if you are content to dismiss it all as hoaxes (like so many do with crop circles and other phenomena), and can't even be bothered to invest 10 minutes of your time to pick up your phone and LOOK, then why should I sit here tapping it out FOR you? Your mind's made up and closed as a steel drum.
For more open-minded people, this does NOT have anything to do with 'god' as popularly defined. No god required. What IS the cause? That's open to speculation. Maybe purely physical processes which may one day be detected and pinpointed.
If you don't look, however, you won't find.
Just stop saying there's NO evidence of any kind. It just isn't true
Do you think Biden and Trump will ever have a public debate?
Grecio comments on May 10, 2020:
How soon do you think everyone will be back to work with respect to virus concerns?
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
Too soon. Money, in a capitalistic system dominated by the super rich and corporations, is more important than people.
Grecio comments on May 10, 2020:
How soon do you think everyone will be back to work with respect to virus concerns?
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
Too soon. Money, in a capitalistic system dominated by the super rich and corporations, is more important than people.
I hate Theists
paul1967 comments on May 18, 2020:
I'm disgusted by Middle Eastern Islamic zealots, BUT they are more true to their faith than Christian zealots, which shows the slow yet, persuasive secular influence unfolding. It just needs to creep deeper into the Middle East.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
Huh?
Nonsense.
paul1967 comments on May 18, 2020:
I'm disgusted by Middle Eastern Islamic zealots, BUT they are more true to their faith than Christian zealots, which shows the slow yet, persuasive secular influence unfolding. It just needs to creep deeper into the Middle East.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
Huh?
Nonsense.
I wonder how many churches will close for good due to covid-19.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
The mega churches will thrive. They're evangelicals in Sunbelt areas with well-off, upwardly mobile suburbanites.
These 'churches' are actually mini-conglomerates, and spin out 'franchises' the same way as Burger King or Home Depot.
Not your parents' neighborhood church.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@DavidLaDeau SMART countries.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
The mega churches will thrive. They're evangelicals in Sunbelt areas with well-off, upwardly mobile suburbanites.
These 'churches' are actually mini-conglomerates, and spin out 'franchises' the same way as Burger King or Home Depot.
Not your parents' neighborhood church.
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@DavidLaDeau SMART countries.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@1of5 Affect my life? Well, even though I've no idea if 'god' exists, my OPINION is there is an ultimate reward-punishment reality enforced by natural law, AND I've a strong suspicion reincarnation is a 'thing,' so I try to live 'AS IF' these things are true.
I don't KNOW they are, and it's okay. It doesn't matter.
It just seems adherence to certain unspoken principles, except for in the cases of mentally deranged people, are common. It's not a 'religion,' just the way things are.
In my opinion.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@1of5 Affect my life? Well, even though I've no idea if 'god' exists, my OPINION is there is an ultimate reward-punishment reality enforced by natural law, AND I've a strong suspicion reincarnation is a 'thing,' so I try to live 'AS IF' these things are true.
I don't KNOW they are, and it's okay. It doesn't matter.
It just seems adherence to certain unspoken principles, except for in the cases of mentally deranged people, are common. It's not a 'religion,' just the way things are.
In my opinion.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@RiverRick You should know better.
Agnosticism is not a belief system.
Atheism is.
I have ideas, shared by some, 'god' is a 'collective unconscious,' or something, But I certainly don't BELIEVE IN that. I just have a feeling, in a quasi-pantheistic sense, there's something. Not anything we can precisely define (yet) or describe, if it exists at all. But it might.
That's not a belief system. That's a vague feeling consciousness permeates everything, IS everything.
Can you even call that 'god?'
I don't know, but it's fun and interesting to speculate about, which I do here regularly.
Atheists don't do that, because they BELIEVE IN the NON-existence of God.
Do you see the difference?
This is not a put down. Everybody is entitled to their opinion or lack thereof.
And MY opinion is Agnosticism is not a belief system, a quasi-religion.
If you want to think so, you're wrong.
In my opinion.
Storm1752 comments on May 17, 2020:
Hi!
Maybe you can help us: there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between our two groups, because while Agnostics and atheists are "related" in some ways (non-religious), in others we're very different.
As an agnostic, I find atheists condenscending, as if Agnostics 'just aren't there yet," ...
Storm1752 replies on May 18, 2020:
@RiverRick You should know better.
Agnosticism is not a belief system.
Atheism is.
I have ideas, shared by some, 'god' is a 'collective unconscious,' or something, But I certainly don't BELIEVE IN that. I just have a feeling, in a quasi-pantheistic sense, there's something. Not anything we can precisely define (yet) or describe, if it exists at all. But it might.
That's not a belief system. That's a vague feeling consciousness permeates everything, IS everything.
Can you even call that 'god?'
I don't know, but it's fun and interesting to speculate about, which I do here regularly.
Atheists don't do that, because they BELIEVE IN the NON-existence of God.
Do you see the difference?
This is not a put down. Everybody is entitled to their opinion or lack thereof.
And MY opinion is Agnosticism is not a belief system, a quasi-religion.
If you want to think so, you're wrong.
In my opinion.
Electrons may very well be conscious.
[m.nautil.us]
Matias comments on May 17, 2020:
As always, everything depends on how you define "conscious": If electrons are already conscious, then how is it possible that I am sometimes not conscious (for example, during sleep, or during anesthesia)? Because even in these states "my" electrons still exist, they are not asleep.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
A part of your brain is always conscious. It's as if another level of your consciousness takes over Without the control of the awake mind, perhaps the electrons which fire your neurotransmitters free-associate, but they never stop functioning. They operate at a different brain wave frequency.
Matias comments on May 17, 2020:
As always, everything depends on how you define "conscious": If electrons are already conscious, then how is it possible that I am sometimes not conscious (for example, during sleep, or during anesthesia)? Because even in these states "my" electrons still exist, they are not asleep.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
A part of your brain is always conscious. It's as if another level of your consciousness takes over Without the control of the awake mind, perhaps the electrons which fire your neurotransmitters free-associate, but they never stop functioning. They operate at a different brain wave frequency.
Coronavirus could push Social Security to insolvency before 2030 - POLITICO
Lorajay comments on May 17, 2020:
I am sure the Republicans and oligarchs are salivating to the point of slobbering because of this opportunity to get closer to the justification of ending Social Security and Medicare as well.
They will of course continue to print money without any hesitation to finance their wars which are ...
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
Bingo.
Lorajay comments on May 17, 2020:
I am sure the Republicans and oligarchs are salivating to the point of slobbering because of this opportunity to get closer to the justification of ending Social Security and Medicare as well.
They will of course continue to print money without any hesitation to finance their wars which are ...
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
Bingo.
I hate Theists
JimmyOneLeg93 comments on May 17, 2020:
I hate the people that did this to her - those SPECIFIC mis-guided fools. I don't hate ALL theists. In fact some of my best friends are theists. We respectfully discuss our beliefs, and seek to better understand one another. I realize that they aren't all understanding - but if I'm being fair ...
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
Bending over TOO far backward to be fair, though I respect your desire to do so. If only the people you are treating with such even-handedness felt the same way.
I assume you're agnostic. Not sure they'd cut off your head immediately; might try to convert you first, which would be your only hope.
I wouldn't bet on it, though.
JimmyOneLeg93 comments on May 17, 2020:
I hate the people that did this to her - those SPECIFIC mis-guided fools. I don't hate ALL theists. In fact some of my best friends are theists. We respectfully discuss our beliefs, and seek to better understand one another. I realize that they aren't all understanding - but if I'm being fair ...
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
Bending over TOO far backward to be fair, though I respect your desire to do so. If only the people you are treating with such even-handedness felt the same way.
I assume you're agnostic. Not sure they'd cut off your head immediately; might try to convert you first, which would be your only hope.
I wouldn't bet on it, though.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
indirect76 comments on May 17, 2020:
Welcome! I see very little distinction between agnostic and atheists.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
@FrankA Thanks, Frank.
indirect76 comments on May 17, 2020:
Welcome! I see very little distinction between agnostic and atheists.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
@FrankA Thanks, Frank.
I checked in to see what agnostics are up to these days.
Paddypereira comments on May 17, 2020:
Welcome. I'm an atheist with commitment issues (as someone described the agnostics in a earlier comment, which I disagree with but it's only a opinion). Greetings from my hermitage.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
Good one!
Paddypereira comments on May 17, 2020:
Welcome. I'm an atheist with commitment issues (as someone described the agnostics in a earlier comment, which I disagree with but it's only a opinion). Greetings from my hermitage.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
Good one!
PRAYER
In your own opinion, why do you think so many christians believe in the power of prayer?
Storm1752 comments on May 16, 2020:
No.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
@Justme43 Because the giant cults they belong to (religions) SAY prayers work, obviously.
Storm1752 comments on May 16, 2020:
No.
Storm1752 replies on May 17, 2020:
@Justme43 Because the giant cults they belong to (religions) SAY prayers work, obviously.
Does being an agnostic mean that you’re on the wall or you lack acceptance?
Mike79 comments on May 16, 2020:
Gnostiscism has to do with knowledge.
Theism has to do with belief.
You can be a Gnostic Theist, Agnostic Theist, Agnostic Athiest, or Gnostic Athiest.
I call myself an Agnostic Athiest. Maybe I shouldn't, since I'm not Agnostic about any colloquial definition of God.
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
First spell ATHEIST right.
Second, you're not an 'agnostic atheist' because there's really no such thing.
But I'm wasting my breath on that one.
Mike79 comments on May 16, 2020:
Gnostiscism has to do with knowledge.
Theism has to do with belief.
You can be a Gnostic Theist, Agnostic Theist, Agnostic Athiest, or Gnostic Athiest.
I call myself an Agnostic Athiest. Maybe I shouldn't, since I'm not Agnostic about any colloquial definition of God.
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
First spell ATHEIST right.
Second, you're not an 'agnostic atheist' because there's really no such thing.
But I'm wasting my breath on that one.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@jorj You're crazy if you think that's even remotely possible, but then again a man-made disaster like another killer virus on top of this one, causing a monster depression, for instance, or a nuclear explosion somewhere...it wouldn't take much, I admit.
I'll man the ramparts WITH you, sir!
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@jorj You're crazy if you think that's even remotely possible, but then again a man-made disaster like another killer virus on top of this one, causing a monster depression, for instance, or a nuclear explosion somewhere...it wouldn't take much, I admit.
I'll man the ramparts WITH you, sir!
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@jorj Okay. Well hopefully Joe will win anyway, and Democratic candidates up and down the line. THEN maybe we can get fairer election laws so the party won't be forced to trend rightward. We both know Democrats are increasingly forced out of the process. And off AM radio. And out of the Supreme Court. Etc. But I don't work for anyone's campaign. I'd just like to see a more liberal country. But yada yada yada. Sorry you refuse to participate in a meaningful way. After the landslide win this year, I think you'll start to see the progressive changes you've been hoping for. Too bad you'll have nothing to do with it. I'm not 'shaming' you, just stating a fact.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@jorj Okay. Well hopefully Joe will win anyway, and Democratic candidates up and down the line. THEN maybe we can get fairer election laws so the party won't be forced to trend rightward. We both know Democrats are increasingly forced out of the process. And off AM radio. And out of the Supreme Court. Etc. But I don't work for anyone's campaign. I'd just like to see a more liberal country. But yada yada yada. Sorry you refuse to participate in a meaningful way. After the landslide win this year, I think you'll start to see the progressive changes you've been hoping for. Too bad you'll have nothing to do with it. I'm not 'shaming' you, just stating a fact.
PRAYER
In your own opinion, why do you think so many christians believe in the power of prayer?
Storm1752 comments on May 16, 2020:
No.
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@Justme43 People get sick and injured all the time. You don't think if prayer worked EVERYBODY wouldn't do it? Does god answer prayers selectively? Answers prayers only from sincere petitioners? Your example shows us THAT'S not true. I don't how anyone WOULD believe prayers ARE effective.
Storm1752 comments on May 16, 2020:
No.
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@Justme43 People get sick and injured all the time. You don't think if prayer worked EVERYBODY wouldn't do it? Does god answer prayers selectively? Answers prayers only from sincere petitioners? Your example shows us THAT'S not true. I don't how anyone WOULD believe prayers ARE effective.
I have heard many people over the years say that they would not want to live forever even if they ...
Storm1752 comments on May 16, 2020:
The truth, I would guess, 100% would choose immortality, and once chosen would choose to REMAIN immortal at any given point.
I think the repulsion from death is 'infinite.' One would always choose the knowledge of life.
This is because no one knows for sure WHAT happens when we die--not a theist, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@maturin1919 Okay. I don't believe you but okay, if you say so.
Storm1752 comments on May 16, 2020:
The truth, I would guess, 100% would choose immortality, and once chosen would choose to REMAIN immortal at any given point.
I think the repulsion from death is 'infinite.' One would always choose the knowledge of life.
This is because no one knows for sure WHAT happens when we die--not a theist, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@maturin1919 Okay. I don't believe you but okay, if you say so.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@p-nullifidian Fantastic quote. Exactly.
Not sure about the last sentence; I'll have to think about it. Maybe what we think of as supernatural is natural but with as-of-yet not understood mechanisms.
More later. Going to work.
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 16, 2020:
@p-nullifidian Fantastic quote. Exactly.
Not sure about the last sentence; I'll have to think about it. Maybe what we think of as supernatural is natural but with as-of-yet not understood mechanisms.
More later. Going to work.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@jorj I was being sarcastic because it's frustrating to converse with someone with a basic difference of opinion who will not change his mind and I think obviously should! I can only say I admire your passion and conviction, but unless you are committed to a violent revolution (which isn't going to happen unless the entire system crashes and burns) the electoral process is all we have, and in my opinion it's better to have someone in office whose values and political positions are closer to one's own. NOT voting for that available person to me simply does not make sense.
Anyway, I'm confident a sea change is coming in November, and you might end up thanking Trump for making it possible!
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@jorj I was being sarcastic because it's frustrating to converse with someone with a basic difference of opinion who will not change his mind and I think obviously should! I can only say I admire your passion and conviction, but unless you are committed to a violent revolution (which isn't going to happen unless the entire system crashes and burns) the electoral process is all we have, and in my opinion it's better to have someone in office whose values and political positions are closer to one's own. NOT voting for that available person to me simply does not make sense.
Anyway, I'm confident a sea change is coming in November, and you might end up thanking Trump for making it possible!
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@p-nullifidian Yes it would seem 'logical' the universe was 'caused;' in other words, there was a time it didn't exist, and then it did.
But it is actually harder to imagine NOTHING EXISTING, and then it coming into being somehow, than it is to imagine it ALWAYS existing.
Indeed, the Big Bang has again been challenged by something called the Big Bounce, which postulates just that: the universe, all matter and energy in existence, has always existed and undergoes cyclic contractions and expansions, rather than appearing out of nowhere.
I ask you, which is harder to envision?
The Hindu and Buddhist religions, far older than the Abrahamic ones, describe such a cyclic process.
Our much younger ones see something (a great deal of something!) out of nothing.
Since it is common knowledge energy (and it's other state, mass)CANNOT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED, it'd seem to me physical laws favor an eternal, forever cycling state of being.
This would of course contradict the biblical claim, which is PERHAPS why physicists and their predecessors, for at least for the past 2000 years or so, favored arguments such as the one you enumerated. After all, if "everything has a cause," including the physical world itself, then who else but a god or gods could do the job?
Matter and energy are constantly in flux, so it's not surprising if people thought a substance, or beam of light, was 'created' out of seemingly nothing, so was 'caused,' so had a 'beginning' so must have had a 'creator.' But we know now it's an illusion.
This is apparently another instance our religion/culture/ societal values and perceptions have yet to keep up (or catch up) with new discoveries and information.
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@p-nullifidian Yes it would seem 'logical' the universe was 'caused;' in other words, there was a time it didn't exist, and then it did.
But it is actually harder to imagine NOTHING EXISTING, and then it coming into being somehow, than it is to imagine it ALWAYS existing.
Indeed, the Big Bang has again been challenged by something called the Big Bounce, which postulates just that: the universe, all matter and energy in existence, has always existed and undergoes cyclic contractions and expansions, rather than appearing out of nowhere.
I ask you, which is harder to envision?
The Hindu and Buddhist religions, far older than the Abrahamic ones, describe such a cyclic process.
Our much younger ones see something (a great deal of something!) out of nothing.
Since it is common knowledge energy (and it's other state, mass)CANNOT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED, it'd seem to me physical laws favor an eternal, forever cycling state of being.
This would of course contradict the biblical claim, which is PERHAPS why physicists and their predecessors, for at least for the past 2000 years or so, favored arguments such as the one you enumerated. After all, if "everything has a cause," including the physical world itself, then who else but a god or gods could do the job?
Matter and energy are constantly in flux, so it's not surprising if people thought a substance, or beam of light, was 'created' out of seemingly nothing, so was 'caused,' so had a 'beginning' so must have had a 'creator.' But we know now it's an illusion.
This is apparently another instance our religion/culture/ societal values and perceptions have yet to keep up (or catch up) with new discoveries and information.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Mofo1953 comments on May 14, 2020:
labels
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
You have no evidence either way.
I don't 'believe in' a father, son, and holy ghost, either. I'm not an idiot. But I can't PROVE they don't exist, except no 'good god" would create a hell, which is what they themselves say about their god. So it's a self-contradictory statement.
BUT that's only one possible definition of 'god,' the one. Hey, I'm an atheist too, when it comes to that.
But just as you are not qualified nor allowed to define which gods are on the 'do not believe' list, you can't tell me I MUST narrow my perspective to that one particular definition. I don't and won't.
I might be a Neo-Deist one day, a Pantheist the next, Ignostic the next; depends maybe what I've read lately, or how I fell out of bed, or what the weather's like. It's none of your beeswax.
Just don't make any bogus claims, like you have a 'lack of belief,' but that doesn't mean you don't have a negative belief. That's nonsense.
You're an Atheist. Own it. Be proud of the fact. You don't believe in God. Repeat after me:
"I don't believe in God, any god."
See? That wasn't so hard.
Me? "I don't know if Zeus exists, but at least he and his definition was consistent."
"I don't believe in the Jesus Christ who (if he does) sends people to hell. In him I'm a non-believer."
In a 'collective consciousness' I'm agnostic. Lots of interesting speculation in that field. Still looking into it.
I could go on but I'm getting bored.
Have a nice day.
"
Mofo1953 comments on May 14, 2020:
labels
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
You have no evidence either way.
I don't 'believe in' a father, son, and holy ghost, either. I'm not an idiot. But I can't PROVE they don't exist, except no 'good god" would create a hell, which is what they themselves say about their god. So it's a self-contradictory statement.
BUT that's only one possible definition of 'god,' the one. Hey, I'm an atheist too, when it comes to that.
But just as you are not qualified nor allowed to define which gods are on the 'do not believe' list, you can't tell me I MUST narrow my perspective to that one particular definition. I don't and won't.
I might be a Neo-Deist one day, a Pantheist the next, Ignostic the next; depends maybe what I've read lately, or how I fell out of bed, or what the weather's like. It's none of your beeswax.
Just don't make any bogus claims, like you have a 'lack of belief,' but that doesn't mean you don't have a negative belief. That's nonsense.
You're an Atheist. Own it. Be proud of the fact. You don't believe in God. Repeat after me:
"I don't believe in God, any god."
See? That wasn't so hard.
Me? "I don't know if Zeus exists, but at least he and his definition was consistent."
"I don't believe in the Jesus Christ who (if he does) sends people to hell. In him I'm a non-believer."
In a 'collective consciousness' I'm agnostic. Lots of interesting speculation in that field. Still looking into it.
I could go on but I'm getting bored.
Have a nice day.
"
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@Archeus_Lore I must, with regret, demure that young children believe in a 'higher power.' because that's not what he said in the first place. He said children are 'born atheists,' which is ludicrous, since they have no concept of 'god' in which to believe or disbelieve.
It's equally obvious babies are born agnostic. They'd have no opinion on it whatsoever.
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@Archeus_Lore I must, with regret, demure that young children believe in a 'higher power.' because that's not what he said in the first place. He said children are 'born atheists,' which is ludicrous, since they have no concept of 'god' in which to believe or disbelieve.
It's equally obvious babies are born agnostic. They'd have no opinion on it whatsoever.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@p-nullifidian It really isn't "a bit more nuanced," but I'll bite.
1) If anything, babies are born with no beliefs (Agnosticism), not an opinion one way or the other.
2) A lack of belief is not the same thing as believing the negative. In any case, atheist DO believe the negative. That's the point. An atheist would say 100% of the time, "I believe there is no god."
Or, I believe in godlessness." Okay? That's what an atheist IS. (Of course they also have a LACK of belief in the affirmative, that there IS a god, but that is not what defines them. You know it, I know it.
3) Agnosticism, in addition to anything else, is a lack of belief in god. Not atheism, Agnosticism. But it's also a lack of belief in the NON-existence of god.
4) the Agnostic, not the Atheist, takes seriously the lack of negative evidence disproving the existence of god. But he ALSO notes the lack of positive evidence PROVING it's existence.
5) God is found 'not guilty' of existing? True. BUT it has ALSO been found 'not guilty' of NOT existing. Clearly there is no evidence, period.
6) Atheists cannot define 'god.' Since 'god' presently is an ABSTRACT CONCEPT rather than a concrete reality, there are no sightings, recordings, transcripts, or any other physical trace. Therefore, 'god' can only be defined as a non-physical SPIRIT, or something else entirely, about which we have no information. The onus is on the Atheist, not the Agnostic, to PROVE some other definition is not only desirable, but NECESSARY.
Therefore, the Agnostic need not prove anything. That's the point. Unlike the Theist, the other party in this dispute, the agnostic may remain silent. He has nothing to prove. So he withdraws with a shrug and lets the two antagonists, natural enemies, have at it.
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It's really very simple:.
Atheists-- believe in NO GOD.
Theists-----believe in GOD
Agnostics--no evidence upon which to base a belief.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@p-nullifidian It really isn't "a bit more nuanced," but I'll bite.
1) If anything, babies are born with no beliefs (Agnosticism), not an opinion one way or the other.
2) A lack of belief is not the same thing as believing the negative. In any case, atheist DO believe the negative. That's the point. An atheist would say 100% of the time, "I believe there is no god."
Or, I believe in godlessness." Okay? That's what an atheist IS. (Of course they also have a LACK of belief in the affirmative, that there IS a god, but that is not what defines them. You know it, I know it.
3) Agnosticism, in addition to anything else, is a lack of belief in god. Not atheism, Agnosticism. But it's also a lack of belief in the NON-existence of god.
4) the Agnostic, not the Atheist, takes seriously the lack of negative evidence disproving the existence of god. But he ALSO notes the lack of positive evidence PROVING it's existence.
5) God is found 'not guilty' of existing? True. BUT it has ALSO been found 'not guilty' of NOT existing. Clearly there is no evidence, period.
6) Atheists cannot define 'god.' Since 'god' presently is an ABSTRACT CONCEPT rather than a concrete reality, there are no sightings, recordings, transcripts, or any other physical trace. Therefore, 'god' can only be defined as a non-physical SPIRIT, or something else entirely, about which we have no information. The onus is on the Atheist, not the Agnostic, to PROVE some other definition is not only desirable, but NECESSARY.
Therefore, the Agnostic need not prove anything. That's the point. Unlike the Theist, the other party in this dispute, the agnostic may remain silent. He has nothing to prove. So he withdraws with a shrug and lets the two antagonists, natural enemies, have at it.
Is consciousness limited to the Homo sapiens species.
MarkWD comments on May 14, 2020:
I lean toward thinking that nearly every creature possessed of any means for sensory input is possessed of some consciousness by virtue of the cognitive capacity required to process that input. I assume that as cognitive capacity increases some level of consciousness arises with it so that it ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@MarkWD Why eat animals if the meat industry is responsible for far more greenhouses gasses than the auto industry? Or is contributing to the destruction of the planet morally neutral?
In fact, are you saying atheists think ALL actions are morally neutral?
I always wondered why they cared about their actions at all, since there's no 'reward-punishment' consequences.
As an agnostic I've always wondered about that.
MarkWD comments on May 14, 2020:
I lean toward thinking that nearly every creature possessed of any means for sensory input is possessed of some consciousness by virtue of the cognitive capacity required to process that input. I assume that as cognitive capacity increases some level of consciousness arises with it so that it ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@MarkWD Why eat animals if the meat industry is responsible for far more greenhouses gasses than the auto industry? Or is contributing to the destruction of the planet morally neutral?
In fact, are you saying atheists think ALL actions are morally neutral?
I always wondered why they cared about their actions at all, since there's no 'reward-punishment' consequences.
As an agnostic I've always wondered about that.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Varn comments on May 14, 2020:
Me, too. Let’s start a movement :D
I’ve begun to consider Agnostics as Embryonic atheists, “*in a rudimentary stage with potential for further development.*” I try to understand, or get along.. but feel exactly as you do. I’ve noted an ‘anything is possible’ attitude. No, it’s...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
Wow. Really reaching out...that's BIG of you.
And I see atheists as misguided Agnostics with a 'god complex.'
Maybe we can meet for lunch.
Talk it over...
Varn comments on May 14, 2020:
Me, too. Let’s start a movement :D
I’ve begun to consider Agnostics as Embryonic atheists, “*in a rudimentary stage with potential for further development.*” I try to understand, or get along.. but feel exactly as you do. I’ve noted an ‘anything is possible’ attitude. No, it’s...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
Wow. Really reaching out...that's BIG of you.
And I see atheists as misguided Agnostics with a 'god complex.'
Maybe we can meet for lunch.
Talk it over...
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
brentan comments on May 14, 2020:
I'm guessing you think agnostics aren't open-minded because their minds are closed to the opinion that there is no evidence to support belief in a god. Maybe the jury is still out for agnostics and not for atheists. It certainly is still out for me.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
And you agree your mind may well--even probably--remain undecided, save fresh evidence?
Thank you.
No further questions.
brentan comments on May 14, 2020:
I'm guessing you think agnostics aren't open-minded because their minds are closed to the opinion that there is no evidence to support belief in a god. Maybe the jury is still out for agnostics and not for atheists. It certainly is still out for me.
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
And you agree your mind may well--even probably--remain undecided, save fresh evidence?
Thank you.
No further questions.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
powder comments on May 14, 2020:
My reasoning is deity is a taught concept, contained within certain religious doctrine but not all. Would not a "god" be felt naturally without the need to be taught?
That's the god question dismissed.
Then I moved onto doctrine; rules, laws and boundaries. Belief is unknown so to write rules,...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
No.
'God' might not be an 'entity' which FEELS anything or is 'felt,' except in the sense when you feel ANYTHING you feel 'god.'
Maybe.
Who knows?
Not me.
powder comments on May 14, 2020:
My reasoning is deity is a taught concept, contained within certain religious doctrine but not all. Would not a "god" be felt naturally without the need to be taught?
That's the god question dismissed.
Then I moved onto doctrine; rules, laws and boundaries. Belief is unknown so to write rules,...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
No.
'God' might not be an 'entity' which FEELS anything or is 'felt,' except in the sense when you feel ANYTHING you feel 'god.'
Maybe.
Who knows?
Not me.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Archeus_Lore comments on May 14, 2020:
It is interesting how Atheists come to a site fittingly named "Agnostic.com" to criticize Agnostics . . . . it is kind of like the christians who show up here or on Atheist sites. If we Agnostics happen to be disagreeable to you, maybe you should create your own Atheist site and leave us the hell ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@p-nullifidian Groan. Wrong again. Atheists and THEISTS, both belief systems, are two sides of the same coin.
Agnostics are not bound by your rules, because we are not playing your game.
Just because you bully your way onto OUR site and bellow the loudest and push your weight around doesn't mean we have to opt into your absolutist trash.
Archeus_Lore comments on May 14, 2020:
It is interesting how Atheists come to a site fittingly named "Agnostic.com" to criticize Agnostics . . . . it is kind of like the christians who show up here or on Atheist sites. If we Agnostics happen to be disagreeable to you, maybe you should create your own Atheist site and leave us the hell ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
@p-nullifidian Groan. Wrong again. Atheists and THEISTS, both belief systems, are two sides of the same coin.
Agnostics are not bound by your rules, because we are not playing your game.
Just because you bully your way onto OUR site and bellow the loudest and push your weight around doesn't mean we have to opt into your absolutist trash.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
Archeus_Lore comments on May 14, 2020:
It is interesting how Atheists come to a site fittingly named "Agnostic.com" to criticize Agnostics . . . . it is kind of like the christians who show up here or on Atheist sites. If we Agnostics happen to be disagreeable to you, maybe you should create your own Atheist site and leave us the hell ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
THANK you!
Archeus_Lore comments on May 14, 2020:
It is interesting how Atheists come to a site fittingly named "Agnostic.com" to criticize Agnostics . . . . it is kind of like the christians who show up here or on Atheist sites. If we Agnostics happen to be disagreeable to you, maybe you should create your own Atheist site and leave us the hell ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
THANK you!
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
NoPlanetB comments on May 14, 2020:
How many agnostics are agnostic about fairies, trolls and dragons? None. Same diff!
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
Dragons are fairly well-defined (scales, breathes fire, flies, usually green, etc.)
God can be defined any number of way, or remain undefined.
It is possible to reject as many definitions of 'god' as desired, or all, and retain the privilege of remaining agnostic vis a vis one undefined.
In other words, Agnostics do not permit atheists to MAKE them believe, or not, the incomprehensible.
NoPlanetB comments on May 14, 2020:
How many agnostics are agnostic about fairies, trolls and dragons? None. Same diff!
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
Dragons are fairly well-defined (scales, breathes fire, flies, usually green, etc.)
God can be defined any number of way, or remain undefined.
It is possible to reject as many definitions of 'god' as desired, or all, and retain the privilege of remaining agnostic vis a vis one undefined.
In other words, Agnostics do not permit atheists to MAKE them believe, or not, the incomprehensible.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
p-nullifidian comments on May 14, 2020:
Some self-avowed agnostics may think the term reflects a "could go either way" attitude, as in, certain computer files, like JPEGs or PDFs, are 'platform agnostic.' However, to strident religionists, their apparent unwillingness to commit represents, in and of itself, a choice. To the faithful, not ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
Agnostics, unlike atheists, are free to speculate about the subject.
They neither believe nor disbelieve; their voices are unfettered.
Atheists have backed themselves into an undefendable absolutist corner. Since there is DEFINITELY no god, any 'extra-normal' phenomenon must be fake, regardless of information to the contrary.
No, this information does not constitute
conclusive proof, but it does suggest something well short of atheistic certainty.
p-nullifidian comments on May 14, 2020:
Some self-avowed agnostics may think the term reflects a "could go either way" attitude, as in, certain computer files, like JPEGs or PDFs, are 'platform agnostic.' However, to strident religionists, their apparent unwillingness to commit represents, in and of itself, a choice. To the faithful, not ...
Storm1752 replies on May 15, 2020:
Agnostics, unlike atheists, are free to speculate about the subject.
They neither believe nor disbelieve; their voices are unfettered.
Atheists have backed themselves into an undefendable absolutist corner. Since there is DEFINITELY no god, any 'extra-normal' phenomenon must be fake, regardless of information to the contrary.
No, this information does not constitute
conclusive proof, but it does suggest something well short of atheistic certainty.
I am agnostic because I want to have an open mind! Really?
WilliamFleming comments on May 14, 2020:
“No reason has been presented for me to believe in a god. There is no god concept that is plausable without going outside of reality. I only live in this reality...”
And no reason will ever be presented to you that will meet your standards. Sitting back and waiting for reasons to be presented...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
Nailed it again, William.
WilliamFleming comments on May 14, 2020:
“No reason has been presented for me to believe in a god. There is no god concept that is plausable without going outside of reality. I only live in this reality...”
And no reason will ever be presented to you that will meet your standards. Sitting back and waiting for reasons to be presented...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
Nailed it again, William.
I watched or listen to about 90% of Dr.
KKGator comments on May 14, 2020:
The gop has been in a steady decline since Nixon.
It picked up speed with Reagan.
It went straight into the toilet with McConnell and Graham.
The sewage backed up and overflowed with 45.
They don't have an ounce of integrity left among them.
The democrats are only marginally better.
I ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
You were doing great until you had to add, " the Democrats are only marginally better."
BS.
Who's going to start a coup (!), pray tell?
Surely not the Democrats! According to you they're not much better than the boot-licking Pubs!
You?
I got it!
Bernie Sanders!
So the Pubs are going to cancel the elections now, huh, and these people are actually agreeing it's actually possible!
What a hysterically paranoid and delusional fantasy!
You people really need to get out more.
KKGator comments on May 14, 2020:
The gop has been in a steady decline since Nixon.
It picked up speed with Reagan.
It went straight into the toilet with McConnell and Graham.
The sewage backed up and overflowed with 45.
They don't have an ounce of integrity left among them.
The democrats are only marginally better.
I ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
You were doing great until you had to add, " the Democrats are only marginally better."
BS.
Who's going to start a coup (!), pray tell?
Surely not the Democrats! According to you they're not much better than the boot-licking Pubs!
You?
I got it!
Bernie Sanders!
So the Pubs are going to cancel the elections now, huh, and these people are actually agreeing it's actually possible!
What a hysterically paranoid and delusional fantasy!
You people really need to get out more.
How the conspiracy theories are winning - [nature.
Word comments on May 14, 2020:
Natural selection is simply defined as: the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring.
Vaccines are given to people, this is man made, to give someone a "boost" of increased benefit for survival that their basic genetics may not ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
You figured it out...brilliant!
Word comments on May 14, 2020:
Natural selection is simply defined as: the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring.
Vaccines are given to people, this is man made, to give someone a "boost" of increased benefit for survival that their basic genetics may not ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
You figured it out...brilliant!
Will there be any unity of purpose in the US? It's not looking so. [johnpavlovitz.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
This doesn't address the article directly, but hopefully relates: since Trump was elected, I've enforced my own personal news blackout...no print, radio, or TV media. I get most of my news here on this site, and thank you for the information!
I think this has helped me retain my sanity and positive...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Allamanda Well, okay then.
Wait a minute...
I'll have to think about that.🤔
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
This doesn't address the article directly, but hopefully relates: since Trump was elected, I've enforced my own personal news blackout...no print, radio, or TV media. I get most of my news here on this site, and thank you for the information!
I think this has helped me retain my sanity and positive...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Allamanda Well, okay then.
Wait a minute...
I'll have to think about that.🤔
Will there be any unity of purpose in the US? It's not looking so. [johnpavlovitz.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
This doesn't address the article directly, but hopefully relates: since Trump was elected, I've enforced my own personal news blackout...no print, radio, or TV media. I get most of my news here on this site, and thank you for the information!
I think this has helped me retain my sanity and positive...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Allamanda Are you ANNOYINGLY cheerful, as if despite genuinely bad news? Possibly counterproductive!
I sure that's not the case.
No I, almost to a pathological degree, AVOID bad news because to allow most or every bad piece of information to seep into my subconscious brain would possibly drive me STARK, RAVING MAD!!!🤪
IF I may, I doubt there will be unity of purpose over something as diffuse and abstract as a virus. Maybe if it turned people into flesh-eating monsters it'd be different.
Things as abstract as a deteriorating enironment doesn't seem to be immediate enough to drive us into each others' arms...
Maybe a detonation of a thermonuclear bomb (or two, or three) would be a gigantically spectacular happenstance of sufficiently destructive power.
How about GOOD things? Well, if a man came down from the sky on a cloud we'd all be thrilled, many of us surprised...
Extraterrestrials landing on the White House lawn? I'd feel very unified!
Cure for cancer, a world disarmament treaty, limitless nuclear fusion electricity, a better mousetrap...many things could give us the fuzzy-wuzzies warm enough to push us over the edge into overwhelmingly benevolent love of all mankind.
I'll withhold judgement, but I'm POSITIVE technology will solve all problems, and quickly, once their profit-making potentials are realized.
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
This doesn't address the article directly, but hopefully relates: since Trump was elected, I've enforced my own personal news blackout...no print, radio, or TV media. I get most of my news here on this site, and thank you for the information!
I think this has helped me retain my sanity and positive...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Allamanda Are you ANNOYINGLY cheerful, as if despite genuinely bad news? Possibly counterproductive!
I sure that's not the case.
No I, almost to a pathological degree, AVOID bad news because to allow most or every bad piece of information to seep into my subconscious brain would possibly drive me STARK, RAVING MAD!!!🤪
IF I may, I doubt there will be unity of purpose over something as diffuse and abstract as a virus. Maybe if it turned people into flesh-eating monsters it'd be different.
Things as abstract as a deteriorating enironment doesn't seem to be immediate enough to drive us into each others' arms...
Maybe a detonation of a thermonuclear bomb (or two, or three) would be a gigantically spectacular happenstance of sufficiently destructive power.
How about GOOD things? Well, if a man came down from the sky on a cloud we'd all be thrilled, many of us surprised...
Extraterrestrials landing on the White House lawn? I'd feel very unified!
Cure for cancer, a world disarmament treaty, limitless nuclear fusion electricity, a better mousetrap...many things could give us the fuzzy-wuzzies warm enough to push us over the edge into overwhelmingly benevolent love of all mankind.
I'll withhold judgement, but I'm POSITIVE technology will solve all problems, and quickly, once their profit-making potentials are realized.
Not all that long ago I asked on this site " What is the worst phrase in the English/US language?
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It ain't nothing but a thing.
Perfectly puts most things in perspective...it (insert situation) IS something to be considered and addressed, but let's not take it TOO seriously! It's a 'thing,' to be sure, but that's all it is, and in due time it'll pass into history like every OTHER thing since ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Mcflewster Precisely the point. A 'thing' in this context a 'commonplace event,' and no matter how serious a distressed person considers it, very few 'things' rise to the level of a 'full blown emergency,'
If an observer comments in this manner to something YOU consider a 'disaster,' he or she is saying EVERYBODY (at one time or another) hits the panic button despite, viewed from afar, nothing of significance has occurred. It can be a condenscending affront if received defensively:
"What? No, this is SERIOUS!"
More often than not, however, it is the panicker who is overreacting to a relatively minor problem.
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
It ain't nothing but a thing.
Perfectly puts most things in perspective...it (insert situation) IS something to be considered and addressed, but let's not take it TOO seriously! It's a 'thing,' to be sure, but that's all it is, and in due time it'll pass into history like every OTHER thing since ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Mcflewster Precisely the point. A 'thing' in this context a 'commonplace event,' and no matter how serious a distressed person considers it, very few 'things' rise to the level of a 'full blown emergency,'
If an observer comments in this manner to something YOU consider a 'disaster,' he or she is saying EVERYBODY (at one time or another) hits the panic button despite, viewed from afar, nothing of significance has occurred. It can be a condenscending affront if received defensively:
"What? No, this is SERIOUS!"
More often than not, however, it is the panicker who is overreacting to a relatively minor problem.
Will there be any unity of purpose in the US? It's not looking so. [johnpavlovitz.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
This doesn't address the article directly, but hopefully relates: since Trump was elected, I've enforced my own personal news blackout...no print, radio, or TV media. I get most of my news here on this site, and thank you for the information!
I think this has helped me retain my sanity and positive...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Allamanda It COULD, if one believes a glass-half-full attitude better draws others into the desirable viewpoint and perspective. People who are off-putting, negative, pessimistic, unhappy and cynical (to name just a few unpleasant traits) turn other people off. They think, "If they're so miserable, why should I listen to THEM?!?"
If one is cheerful, etc., people want to know how and why.
Life's too short to be an argumentative, hateful b------!
Storm1752 comments on May 14, 2020:
This doesn't address the article directly, but hopefully relates: since Trump was elected, I've enforced my own personal news blackout...no print, radio, or TV media. I get most of my news here on this site, and thank you for the information!
I think this has helped me retain my sanity and positive...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@Allamanda It COULD, if one believes a glass-half-full attitude better draws others into the desirable viewpoint and perspective. People who are off-putting, negative, pessimistic, unhappy and cynical (to name just a few unpleasant traits) turn other people off. They think, "If they're so miserable, why should I listen to THEM?!?"
If one is cheerful, etc., people want to know how and why.
Life's too short to be an argumentative, hateful b------!
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@jorj I guess you didn't understand: I 'get' your bitterness. I just think it better to BUILD on the positive rather than continually blow things up and start over. We just have different approaches to life.
Talk to you again some time, at which juncture I will once again endeavor to cheer you up.
BYE.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@jorj I guess you didn't understand: I 'get' your bitterness. I just think it better to BUILD on the positive rather than continually blow things up and start over. We just have different approaches to life.
Talk to you again some time, at which juncture I will once again endeavor to cheer you up.
BYE.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@jorj Truth? Yes, I know the truth: if more than a tiny minority feel like you, the blow to Republicans from all this Trumpian failure will be blunted, and they could very well survive intact. From that, recovery and renewed strength could follow.
That's the truth. It's depressing, dampens enthusiasm, lowers expectations.
These kinds of things are contagious, like a bad virus. I can only hope people like you are few and far between.
Good day to you, sir.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 14, 2020:
@jorj Truth? Yes, I know the truth: if more than a tiny minority feel like you, the blow to Republicans from all this Trumpian failure will be blunted, and they could very well survive intact. From that, recovery and renewed strength could follow.
That's the truth. It's depressing, dampens enthusiasm, lowers expectations.
These kinds of things are contagious, like a bad virus. I can only hope people like you are few and far between.
Good day to you, sir.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@jorj Good. Stay home. Enjoy Trump II.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@jorj Good. Stay home. Enjoy Trump II.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@jorj Thanks for acknowledging your Trojan Horse status. You obviously do not vote on the ISSUES, but strictly according to emotional outburst.
You're the type who one day votes for Obama, the next day for Trump, the next for...who?
No. Don't tell me. I don't want to know.
Tulsi Gabbard?!?
Figures.
Look, speaking of crazy trains, I'm getting off this one.
Good luck voting for lost causes and vacuous, empty burkas.
Now go away.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@jorj Thanks for acknowledging your Trojan Horse status. You obviously do not vote on the ISSUES, but strictly according to emotional outburst.
You're the type who one day votes for Obama, the next day for Trump, the next for...who?
No. Don't tell me. I don't want to know.
Tulsi Gabbard?!?
Figures.
Look, speaking of crazy trains, I'm getting off this one.
Good luck voting for lost causes and vacuous, empty burkas.
Now go away.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@OwlInASack Of course I understand the anti-Biden arguments! I already said I voted for Sanders! But he lost (and don't give me the 'dirty tricks' excuse. They made valid arguments Bernie is too 'radical' (in the brainwashed popular mind) to get elected. Right or wrong, correct or incorrect, fair or unfair, it stuck.
My obvious point is, taking it out on Biden is not only pointless but extremely injurious.
Say Biden is elected. Then 'we' are back in the executive branch, possibly with majorities in both Chambers of Congress. From there we can show we've learned from Obama's naivete, Clinton's 'triangulation' and 'third way' futility (not to mention that looks quaintly passe these days), Kerry's odd passivity, and Hillary's overconfidence, and set things up so we begin TAKING CONTROL of the narrative this time.
1) Reinstitute the Fairness Doctrine.
2) Open up the voting franchise again, making it easier to vote, not next to impossible,
3) Appoint our share of federal judges,
4) Bolster the morale by strengthening the civil service,
5) Strengthen Obamacare and expand Medicare,
6) In many other ways great and small begin to turn the tide back to the progressive agenda.
Joe Biden isn't in and of himself 'the answer.' He's one flawed voice.
But d*mn, we have to start somewhere!
Once we regain the majorities in reality as well as raw numbers, we can push that advantage. But lost in the wilderness as we still are, the crazy-train tea party, libertarian, racist, etc., Republican Looney Tunes get bolder and more extreme, to the point I'm beginning to fear for the future of this country!
STOP damning the good to go down in flames in the name of perfection!
It's crazy!
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@OwlInASack Of course I understand the anti-Biden arguments! I already said I voted for Sanders! But he lost (and don't give me the 'dirty tricks' excuse. They made valid arguments Bernie is too 'radical' (in the brainwashed popular mind) to get elected. Right or wrong, correct or incorrect, fair or unfair, it stuck.
My obvious point is, taking it out on Biden is not only pointless but extremely injurious.
Say Biden is elected. Then 'we' are back in the executive branch, possibly with majorities in both Chambers of Congress. From there we can show we've learned from Obama's naivete, Clinton's 'triangulation' and 'third way' futility (not to mention that looks quaintly passe these days), Kerry's odd passivity, and Hillary's overconfidence, and set things up so we begin TAKING CONTROL of the narrative this time.
1) Reinstitute the Fairness Doctrine.
2) Open up the voting franchise again, making it easier to vote, not next to impossible,
3) Appoint our share of federal judges,
4) Bolster the morale by strengthening the civil service,
5) Strengthen Obamacare and expand Medicare,
6) In many other ways great and small begin to turn the tide back to the progressive agenda.
Joe Biden isn't in and of himself 'the answer.' He's one flawed voice.
But d*mn, we have to start somewhere!
Once we regain the majorities in reality as well as raw numbers, we can push that advantage. But lost in the wilderness as we still are, the crazy-train tea party, libertarian, racist, etc., Republican Looney Tunes get bolder and more extreme, to the point I'm beginning to fear for the future of this country!
STOP damning the good to go down in flames in the name of perfection!
It's crazy!
Should we invent a new definition of 'god?
JeffMesser comments on May 12, 2020:
god is just a personification for everything they didnt understand. a black box for an explanation. problem was they had no conception of science and natural processes so the only change agents they knew of were animals and other people. if something was happening it must be because of animals or ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@JeffMesser That's true, but I'd rather risk saying something original, and try to educate and persuade hard-core atheists there's another way to think of the subject of 'god,' though I know it's a difficult (bordering on hopeless!) enterprise.
Dude.
JeffMesser comments on May 12, 2020:
god is just a personification for everything they didnt understand. a black box for an explanation. problem was they had no conception of science and natural processes so the only change agents they knew of were animals and other people. if something was happening it must be because of animals or ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@JeffMesser That's true, but I'd rather risk saying something original, and try to educate and persuade hard-core atheists there's another way to think of the subject of 'god,' though I know it's a difficult (bordering on hopeless!) enterprise.
Dude.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
NoPlanetB comments on May 9, 2020:
Bernie or Busters don't want this. They don't want people standing up and saying she's not credible. They want their pound of flesh and nothing else will do. It's part of why we got Trump in the first place. I can't tell you how many of them said, "If you don't go with Bernie then you deserve what ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@OwlInASack There we're plain and clear RULES. Not dirty tricks...RULES
NoPlanetB comments on May 9, 2020:
Bernie or Busters don't want this. They don't want people standing up and saying she's not credible. They want their pound of flesh and nothing else will do. It's part of why we got Trump in the first place. I can't tell you how many of them said, "If you don't go with Bernie then you deserve what ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@OwlInASack There we're plain and clear RULES. Not dirty tricks...RULES
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
NoPlanetB comments on May 9, 2020:
Bernie or Busters don't want this. They don't want people standing up and saying she's not credible. They want their pound of flesh and nothing else will do. It's part of why we got Trump in the first place. I can't tell you how many of them said, "If you don't go with Bernie then you deserve what ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
Thank you. I feel better knowing there's other sane people doing battle with these trolls.
NoPlanetB comments on May 9, 2020:
Bernie or Busters don't want this. They don't want people standing up and saying she's not credible. They want their pound of flesh and nothing else will do. It's part of why we got Trump in the first place. I can't tell you how many of them said, "If you don't go with Bernie then you deserve what ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
Thank you. I feel better knowing there's other sane people doing battle with these trolls.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Dhiltong comments on May 10, 2020:
It’s time to ignore stuff like this, it has no bearing on how one would lead......
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@RoboGraham You're a right-wing troll, Graham. In fact, you're probably a robot, with obviously nothing better to do than throw spitballs across the classroom at the smart row.
Dhiltong comments on May 10, 2020:
It’s time to ignore stuff like this, it has no bearing on how one would lead......
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@RoboGraham You're a right-wing troll, Graham. In fact, you're probably a robot, with obviously nothing better to do than throw spitballs across the classroom at the smart row.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Silver1wun comments on May 10, 2020:
If you can't see Joseph Biden for what he is, I pity you and the Republic.
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
I pity YOU for being so easily manipulated.
Silver1wun comments on May 10, 2020:
If you can't see Joseph Biden for what he is, I pity you and the Republic.
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
I pity YOU for being so easily manipulated.
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
davknight comments on May 10, 2020:
One should really ask how much was Reade paid/promised by Trump's psyops people?
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
Most likely deferred payments more professionally handled than Trump's bungled payments to the porn star
davknight comments on May 10, 2020:
One should really ask how much was Reade paid/promised by Trump's psyops people?
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
Most likely deferred payments more professionally handled than Trump's bungled payments to the porn star
Interesting reporting about Tara Reade and her exploits.
[medium.com]
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@jorj But even if you didn't believe the accusations (I certainly don't) you wouldn't vote for him anyway, so your likely-feigned outrage is really a ruse.
In fact, you're a sore loser, throwing a childish temper tantrum, taking your toys and going home.
If it had been St. Bernie accused of sexual misconduct,you would have in the front row screaming his innocence.
The fact is, JOE BIDEN WON BECAUSE MORE DEMOCRATS VOTED FOR HIM THAN THEY DID ANYBODY ELSE, INCLUDING BERNIE SANDERS!
Hey, I voted for Bernie. I wanted him to win. I've a feeling you yourself are lying and are a Republican troll.
A genuine, sincere liberal, I'll vote for fellow liberal Joe Biden. You'll probably vote for Trump. That's your right. Go for it. Trump is going to lose, but with loyal Trump foot soldiers like you it might be actually, inexplicably close.
Whatever.
Biden has real blemishes on his record. I acknowledge that. But he is an incomparably better choice. Period.
Do or say what you want. You and other Trump Trolls on here are a disgrace to the overall democratic process. If you really are liberals (I doubt it) you are a disgrace to the cause. Hope you're enjoying yourselves.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
Sounds like a typical Republican attack job, maybe not started by Pubs, but you can believe spread by them far and wide.
Tara Reade is a pathological liar in her own right.
What surprises me is so many supposedly Democratic supporters so rabid to criticise Biden for
ANYTHING no matter how ...
Storm1752 replies on May 13, 2020:
@jorj But even if you didn't believe the accusations (I certainly don't) you wouldn't vote for him anyway, so your likely-feigned outrage is really a ruse.
In fact, you're a sore loser, throwing a childish temper tantrum, taking your toys and going home.
If it had been St. Bernie accused of sexual misconduct,you would have in the front row screaming his innocence.
The fact is, JOE BIDEN WON BECAUSE MORE DEMOCRATS VOTED FOR HIM THAN THEY DID ANYBODY ELSE, INCLUDING BERNIE SANDERS!
Hey, I voted for Bernie. I wanted him to win. I've a feeling you yourself are lying and are a Republican troll.
A genuine, sincere liberal, I'll vote for fellow liberal Joe Biden. You'll probably vote for Trump. That's your right. Go for it. Trump is going to lose, but with loyal Trump foot soldiers like you it might be actually, inexplicably close.
Whatever.
Biden has real blemishes on his record. I acknowledge that. But he is an incomparably better choice. Period.
Do or say what you want. You and other Trump Trolls on here are a disgrace to the overall democratic process. If you really are liberals (I doubt it) you are a disgrace to the cause. Hope you're enjoying yourselves.
Should we invent a new definition of 'god?
Fernapple comments on May 12, 2020:
God a a synonym for 'nothing much'. No I don't think so, thank you. I think that the term 'nothing much', has served me very well all though life so far, and I see no reason to be disloyal.
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Right. Understood. If that satisfies your curiousity, who am I to say you're being mentally lazy and intellectually stubborn? Nobody.
But I AM still curious. Just saying certain things are so, without evidence, just because I THINK they are, isn't good enough for me. Most Agnostics suspect quite strongly there are answers yet to be uncovered.
After all, were certain people satisfied with the explanation the sun (and everything else in the sky) revolved around the Earth?
Most were.
EVERYBODY was pressured into believing that, because it was easier and safer that way. We would have discovered the truth eventually anyway, because our instruments and calculations couldn't have been denied forever, but it just goes to show how wrong the 'obvious, easy truth' can easily become an obvious, embarassing lie.
Fernapple comments on May 12, 2020:
God a a synonym for 'nothing much'. No I don't think so, thank you. I think that the term 'nothing much', has served me very well all though life so far, and I see no reason to be disloyal.
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Right. Understood. If that satisfies your curiousity, who am I to say you're being mentally lazy and intellectually stubborn? Nobody.
But I AM still curious. Just saying certain things are so, without evidence, just because I THINK they are, isn't good enough for me. Most Agnostics suspect quite strongly there are answers yet to be uncovered.
After all, were certain people satisfied with the explanation the sun (and everything else in the sky) revolved around the Earth?
Most were.
EVERYBODY was pressured into believing that, because it was easier and safer that way. We would have discovered the truth eventually anyway, because our instruments and calculations couldn't have been denied forever, but it just goes to show how wrong the 'obvious, easy truth' can easily become an obvious, embarassing lie.
Should we invent a new definition of 'god?
JeffMesser comments on May 12, 2020:
god is just a personification for everything they didnt understand. a black box for an explanation. problem was they had no conception of science and natural processes so the only change agents they knew of were animals and other people. if something was happening it must be because of animals or ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Right. Exactly.
But we DO know better now, than to personify or anthropomorphize that explanation.
If we're running a maze, we don't stop when/if we reach a dead end. We cross that blind alley off, maybe mark it with a red flag, and keep going until we find the right way out.
Similarly, if we know what 'god' isn't, using our reason, powers of observation, and common sense, we will eventually come to one of two final conclusions:
1) god by any definition definitely does not exist, or
2) god DOES exist, if we mean by that word a certain thing. Here is the meaning, condensed into a definition.
We know one thing for a virtual fact: people will not stop looking for one of those two answers to that question until they find it. To do as atheists do, and simply make up one's mind without evidence, simply will not satisfy open-minded people who require information which adds up to proof.
The least we can do, as agnostics, is keep trying to narrow the search, invent--if we must--new and more sophisticated 'religions' perfectly matched and updated to the level of our knowledge, and ask more enlightened and appropriate questions.
JeffMesser comments on May 12, 2020:
god is just a personification for everything they didnt understand. a black box for an explanation. problem was they had no conception of science and natural processes so the only change agents they knew of were animals and other people. if something was happening it must be because of animals or ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Right. Exactly.
But we DO know better now, than to personify or anthropomorphize that explanation.
If we're running a maze, we don't stop when/if we reach a dead end. We cross that blind alley off, maybe mark it with a red flag, and keep going until we find the right way out.
Similarly, if we know what 'god' isn't, using our reason, powers of observation, and common sense, we will eventually come to one of two final conclusions:
1) god by any definition definitely does not exist, or
2) god DOES exist, if we mean by that word a certain thing. Here is the meaning, condensed into a definition.
We know one thing for a virtual fact: people will not stop looking for one of those two answers to that question until they find it. To do as atheists do, and simply make up one's mind without evidence, simply will not satisfy open-minded people who require information which adds up to proof.
The least we can do, as agnostics, is keep trying to narrow the search, invent--if we must--new and more sophisticated 'religions' perfectly matched and updated to the level of our knowledge, and ask more enlightened and appropriate questions.
Should we invent a new definition of 'god?
Bierbasstard comments on May 12, 2020:
No. Just, No.
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
No?
No what?
Bierbasstard comments on May 12, 2020:
No. Just, No.
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
No?
No what?
Should we invent a new definition of 'god?
mordant comments on May 12, 2020:
Indifferent / uninvolved / absent / non-interventionist gods behave EXACTLY the same as non-existent gods. Which is to say, there's no evidence of their activity or interest in interacting with humans. How would one ever tell those kinds of gods apart?
Redefining "god" as "all of existence" or as...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
I am using an alternative definition of 'god...' at least a tentative, prospective one.
Atheists reject the personal, Abrahamic god who created the universe, answers prayer, sends us to hell, you know, all that crude, primitive stuff ALL non-religious people reject, not just atheists.
As an AGNOSTIC, however, I don't have to believe the obvious fact a 'good god' would not be capable of creating hell, to speculate an entirely different 'type' of god might exist, such as the concept subscribed to by neo-deists or pantheists, for instance.
I've no idea WHAT that God might be, but I think we can safely say what 'god' isn't.
So I was thinking about what the 'ultimate answer' to life's Big Questions might look like. And once we've finally isolated 'god' in a test tube, what IT might look like.
And if we CAN'T isolate it, be it 'consciousness' or whatever, well that doesn't prove it doesn't exist, does it? I mean, we KNOW consciousness exists, right, because we both have it, correct?
So all we can really do is wonder about it, which I realize as an atheist you can't do. But I can.
mordant comments on May 12, 2020:
Indifferent / uninvolved / absent / non-interventionist gods behave EXACTLY the same as non-existent gods. Which is to say, there's no evidence of their activity or interest in interacting with humans. How would one ever tell those kinds of gods apart?
Redefining "god" as "all of existence" or as...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
I am using an alternative definition of 'god...' at least a tentative, prospective one.
Atheists reject the personal, Abrahamic god who created the universe, answers prayer, sends us to hell, you know, all that crude, primitive stuff ALL non-religious people reject, not just atheists.
As an AGNOSTIC, however, I don't have to believe the obvious fact a 'good god' would not be capable of creating hell, to speculate an entirely different 'type' of god might exist, such as the concept subscribed to by neo-deists or pantheists, for instance.
I've no idea WHAT that God might be, but I think we can safely say what 'god' isn't.
So I was thinking about what the 'ultimate answer' to life's Big Questions might look like. And once we've finally isolated 'god' in a test tube, what IT might look like.
And if we CAN'T isolate it, be it 'consciousness' or whatever, well that doesn't prove it doesn't exist, does it? I mean, we KNOW consciousness exists, right, because we both have it, correct?
So all we can really do is wonder about it, which I realize as an atheist you can't do. But I can.
Should we invent a new definition of 'god?
Omnedon comments on May 12, 2020:
True, death is inevitable, and the golden rule is a good rule. Aside from that... I see no need to craft a different god. If it's not involved in the universe, didn't create it, has no role in our lives, then it seems irrelevant as a "god". It seems to be an artificial construct and not needed.
...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Some scientists are saying each quark of matter has 'consciousness, albeit at that rudimentary level very primitive. Supposedly as you go up the ladder, so to speak, consciousness becomes more and more complex.
As an agnostic (not an atheist) I sometimes speculate about if 'god' could be quantified and defined like anything else, it's essence eventually detected and identified.
Since you, as an atheist, reject the very notion of ANY kind or description of something which could conceivably be referred to as 'god,' you have once again clearly shown the difference between the two schools of thought.
About energy, it and it's counterpart 'mass,' constitute everything which exists. It just stands to reason if mass has consciousness, so too does pure energy
This is of course highly speculative, if based on certain physical 'truths,' the properties of which we may never know. But as an agnostic I'm not 'required' to keep silent about speculative matters, lest the Proof Squad come and take me away!
Omnedon comments on May 12, 2020:
True, death is inevitable, and the golden rule is a good rule. Aside from that... I see no need to craft a different god. If it's not involved in the universe, didn't create it, has no role in our lives, then it seems irrelevant as a "god". It seems to be an artificial construct and not needed.
...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Some scientists are saying each quark of matter has 'consciousness, albeit at that rudimentary level very primitive. Supposedly as you go up the ladder, so to speak, consciousness becomes more and more complex.
As an agnostic (not an atheist) I sometimes speculate about if 'god' could be quantified and defined like anything else, it's essence eventually detected and identified.
Since you, as an atheist, reject the very notion of ANY kind or description of something which could conceivably be referred to as 'god,' you have once again clearly shown the difference between the two schools of thought.
About energy, it and it's counterpart 'mass,' constitute everything which exists. It just stands to reason if mass has consciousness, so too does pure energy
This is of course highly speculative, if based on certain physical 'truths,' the properties of which we may never know. But as an agnostic I'm not 'required' to keep silent about speculative matters, lest the Proof Squad come and take me away!
Should we invent a new definition of 'god?
Allamanda comments on May 12, 2020:
I think you may have seen the posts recently on the Gaian hypothesis? And the meme thing I posted where each thing is labeled 'Also God'? These are all facets of the same argument, are they not? We can see Life as the divine in everything, or Breath, or Energy, or the anima mundi... it doesn't ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
No, I haven't seen that...where do I find it?
Thanks, btw, for the friendly response. As you can see, you're (as usual) in the minority! Why don't these hard-core absolutists find a non-agnostic site? At the very least, do they HAVE to rudely attack agnostic thought as if it doesn't belong in THEIR space?
I'll continue to express myself in the hopes sympaticos are out there.
Allamanda comments on May 12, 2020:
I think you may have seen the posts recently on the Gaian hypothesis? And the meme thing I posted where each thing is labeled 'Also God'? These are all facets of the same argument, are they not? We can see Life as the divine in everything, or Breath, or Energy, or the anima mundi... it doesn't ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
No, I haven't seen that...where do I find it?
Thanks, btw, for the friendly response. As you can see, you're (as usual) in the minority! Why don't these hard-core absolutists find a non-agnostic site? At the very least, do they HAVE to rudely attack agnostic thought as if it doesn't belong in THEIR space?
I'll continue to express myself in the hopes sympaticos are out there.
Lying Christian Pastor: It’s “Scientifically Impossible to Be an Atheist” | Hemant Mehta | ...
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
I disagree the burden of proof lies more heavily on theists OR atheists.
It's an equally onerous burden, because neither group can prove their position.
Theists cannot prove god exists.
Atheists cannot prove god doesn't exist.
It's a draw.
A tie.
A dead heat.
Agnostics, on the other hand, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
@MPendergraft It's true I don't BELIEVE IN 'god,' but it's also true I do not NOT believe in 'god,' also.
Do I think it's possible in a real, tangible sense, rather than with a reluctant nod in that direction? The answer is 'yes,' depending on the definition of god referenced.
I DO think there is a 'unifying force' common to all things (energy/mass), which has been proven. I think it possible this force has collective 'consciousness,' the same thing you and I as individuals have. Do I understand what I even mean by that? Of course not. If I did I could start my own religion (only this religion might actually contain some seeds of truth)!
No, I've little to go by, just a lot of conjecture by learned people, some theoretical speculation by physics professors about the nature of consciousness, a lot of personal thought (automatically rejected) about life, and a lot of circumstantial evidence, case studies, and reams of somewhat inconclusive yet persuasive research and investigation into all sorts of paranormal/supernatural/extrasensory phenomenon.
No, I don't think there's a cartoonish man with a white beard in the clouds, or for that matter ANY kind of 'supreme being' in charge of our 'immortal souls.' It'd be illogical and nonsensical to think so given what we know of the world.
But what we thought we knew even 1000 years ago has very little relation to what we think we know now. In 1000 years from now we'll think we know even more. Oh, we WILL know more, but not nearly all there is to know, and probably not nearly as much as we think.
No, in my opinion there's something about the fundamentalist nature of our existence we don't know. Atheists like you think even speculating about it is some kind of 'sin.' I don't.
In fact, my mind is free of the intellectual straightjacket with which religion used to bind it; I'll be a "money's uncle" if I let a LACK of religion do the same thing.
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
I disagree the burden of proof lies more heavily on theists OR atheists.
It's an equally onerous burden, because neither group can prove their position.
Theists cannot prove god exists.
Atheists cannot prove god doesn't exist.
It's a draw.
A tie.
A dead heat.
Agnostics, on the other hand, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
@MPendergraft It's true I don't BELIEVE IN 'god,' but it's also true I do not NOT believe in 'god,' also.
Do I think it's possible in a real, tangible sense, rather than with a reluctant nod in that direction? The answer is 'yes,' depending on the definition of god referenced.
I DO think there is a 'unifying force' common to all things (energy/mass), which has been proven. I think it possible this force has collective 'consciousness,' the same thing you and I as individuals have. Do I understand what I even mean by that? Of course not. If I did I could start my own religion (only this religion might actually contain some seeds of truth)!
No, I've little to go by, just a lot of conjecture by learned people, some theoretical speculation by physics professors about the nature of consciousness, a lot of personal thought (automatically rejected) about life, and a lot of circumstantial evidence, case studies, and reams of somewhat inconclusive yet persuasive research and investigation into all sorts of paranormal/supernatural/extrasensory phenomenon.
No, I don't think there's a cartoonish man with a white beard in the clouds, or for that matter ANY kind of 'supreme being' in charge of our 'immortal souls.' It'd be illogical and nonsensical to think so given what we know of the world.
But what we thought we knew even 1000 years ago has very little relation to what we think we know now. In 1000 years from now we'll think we know even more. Oh, we WILL know more, but not nearly all there is to know, and probably not nearly as much as we think.
No, in my opinion there's something about the fundamentalist nature of our existence we don't know. Atheists like you think even speculating about it is some kind of 'sin.' I don't.
In fact, my mind is free of the intellectual straightjacket with which religion used to bind it; I'll be a "money's uncle" if I let a LACK of religion do the same thing.
"All you have to do is look around you and see the beauty of god's creation!"
It's like you've ...
RussRAB comments on May 11, 2020:
Christians refuse to acknowledge that their God is ultimately responsible for all the ugly, vile, putrid, and disgusting things within our world. Even if we allow the Devil (or disobedient, evil humans) to "corrupt" God's creation, God has created the possibility and the parameters of this ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Huh?
Kinda negative, aren't we? Just because the entire Earth is a survival-of-the-fittest killing field doesn't mean we, the ultimate Apex predator, cannot find the beauty in all this blood-letting carnage!
After all, nature has now set it's sights squarely back on us, as we can see with the recent outbreaks of viruses worldwide, the murder hornets and the disappearance of the honeybees, the wholesale destruction of our environment, the rampant overpopulation and growing scarcity of resources...oh shall I go on?!?
BUT as a stoic everything's okay in MY world right now, so I choose to believe the same technology and endless ingenuity which got us in this mess will get us out.
If not, c'est la vie!
RussRAB comments on May 11, 2020:
Christians refuse to acknowledge that their God is ultimately responsible for all the ugly, vile, putrid, and disgusting things within our world. Even if we allow the Devil (or disobedient, evil humans) to "corrupt" God's creation, God has created the possibility and the parameters of this ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Huh?
Kinda negative, aren't we? Just because the entire Earth is a survival-of-the-fittest killing field doesn't mean we, the ultimate Apex predator, cannot find the beauty in all this blood-letting carnage!
After all, nature has now set it's sights squarely back on us, as we can see with the recent outbreaks of viruses worldwide, the murder hornets and the disappearance of the honeybees, the wholesale destruction of our environment, the rampant overpopulation and growing scarcity of resources...oh shall I go on?!?
BUT as a stoic everything's okay in MY world right now, so I choose to believe the same technology and endless ingenuity which got us in this mess will get us out.
If not, c'est la vie!
An interesting (not necessarily accurate) perpective
[youtube.com]
FearlessFly comments on May 12, 2020:
My 'take' on the video . . .
1) Liberalism is : we are born as individuals, want to be governed by consent
2) Nationalism is : We are born and socialized as groups and want Nation States
His conclusion why Nationalism will always prevail over Liberalism is :
"we are not fundamentally ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Maybe a good question would be, why are men always trying to come up with absolutist formulas to explain EVERYTHING about human beings--their behavior, attitudes, viewpoints, favorite pie, etc.?
Why can't humans be seen as highly adaptable creatures who can pretty much fill any niche available for survival?
"Hey, you want me to be a Nazi or you'll kill me? No problem!" OR "You want me to be an anti-war peacenik or you'll make me go to Vietnam? I can do that!"
The extent to which we will mold our thoughts to whatever stance is most convenient at the moment, is limitless.
So nationalist or rugged individualist, hey, whatever works!
AND, it goes without saying there's plenty of 'nationalist liberals' and 'individualist conservatives' running around, to say nothing of 'individualist liberals' and 'nationalist conservatives...' maybe more!
(Hey, if someone can call themselves an 'agnostic theist' or a 'atheistic agnostic' they can call themselves anything.)
FearlessFly comments on May 12, 2020:
My 'take' on the video . . .
1) Liberalism is : we are born as individuals, want to be governed by consent
2) Nationalism is : We are born and socialized as groups and want Nation States
His conclusion why Nationalism will always prevail over Liberalism is :
"we are not fundamentally ...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
Maybe a good question would be, why are men always trying to come up with absolutist formulas to explain EVERYTHING about human beings--their behavior, attitudes, viewpoints, favorite pie, etc.?
Why can't humans be seen as highly adaptable creatures who can pretty much fill any niche available for survival?
"Hey, you want me to be a Nazi or you'll kill me? No problem!" OR "You want me to be an anti-war peacenik or you'll make me go to Vietnam? I can do that!"
The extent to which we will mold our thoughts to whatever stance is most convenient at the moment, is limitless.
So nationalist or rugged individualist, hey, whatever works!
AND, it goes without saying there's plenty of 'nationalist liberals' and 'individualist conservatives' running around, to say nothing of 'individualist liberals' and 'nationalist conservatives...' maybe more!
(Hey, if someone can call themselves an 'agnostic theist' or a 'atheistic agnostic' they can call themselves anything.)
Anyone starting to come around to my opinion about Elon Musk being a bad guy yet?
Ellen-SoCal comments on May 11, 2020:
Howard Hughes was smart, and look how he turned out...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
@barjoe Trump is rich; he's not smart.
Ellen-SoCal comments on May 11, 2020:
Howard Hughes was smart, and look how he turned out...
Storm1752 replies on May 12, 2020:
@barjoe Trump is rich; he's not smart.
Lying Christian Pastor: It’s “Scientifically Impossible to Be an Atheist” | Hemant Mehta | ...
Word comments on May 7, 2020:
Academic and philosophy would support that atheism/atheist is the Illogical ones. Not to call them a liar, but to say they are incorrect for scientific and scholarly reasons.
Although Flew’s definition of “atheism” fails as an umbrella term, it is certainly a legitimate definition in ...
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
It's true atheists THEMSELVES should decide once and for all what THEY mean by the word.
Common usage is, 'One who does not believe in, and PROACTIVELY DENIES, the existence of ANY 'god' by ANY definition.'
In other words, they 'believe in' the non-existence of 'god.'
This is why this disagreement is much more about definition than substance.
Is atheism, or is it not, a belief?
Is saying one doesn't believe in god (or gods) the same thing as saying one dIsbelieves?
Anyone who is not a self-identified atheist doesn't really care one way or another, but would say, 'of course.'
Atheists know they cannot state categorically, 'god doesn't exist.'
But admitting the word 'atheist' is therefore self-contradictory would be to admit it is non-functional and meaningless.
In response they re-identify as 'agnostic atheist,' which is also self-contradictory but perhaps the best they can do.
Or they could simply set aside the word 'atheist' and re-brand themselves 'agnostic,' thus ending the argument once and for all, with no loss of meaning.
This will of course never happen, but equally clearly, it is not possible to:
1) Monopolize the word 'god'
by establishing THAT definition as the only one.
2) Declare THAT 'god' non-existent.
3) Inductively conclude since THAT 'god' doesn't exist, therefore 'god does not exist.'
This cannot be logically be done.
My personal bottom line is, definitions aside, I DO 'believe' there is an explanation for everything, in every way, regardless of what you want to call it.
God?
The Unified Field Theory?
The Collective Unconscious?
The Wizard of Oz?
It doesn't matter.
Word comments on May 7, 2020:
Academic and philosophy would support that atheism/atheist is the Illogical ones. Not to call them a liar, but to say they are incorrect for scientific and scholarly reasons.
Although Flew’s definition of “atheism” fails as an umbrella term, it is certainly a legitimate definition in ...
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
It's true atheists THEMSELVES should decide once and for all what THEY mean by the word.
Common usage is, 'One who does not believe in, and PROACTIVELY DENIES, the existence of ANY 'god' by ANY definition.'
In other words, they 'believe in' the non-existence of 'god.'
This is why this disagreement is much more about definition than substance.
Is atheism, or is it not, a belief?
Is saying one doesn't believe in god (or gods) the same thing as saying one dIsbelieves?
Anyone who is not a self-identified atheist doesn't really care one way or another, but would say, 'of course.'
Atheists know they cannot state categorically, 'god doesn't exist.'
But admitting the word 'atheist' is therefore self-contradictory would be to admit it is non-functional and meaningless.
In response they re-identify as 'agnostic atheist,' which is also self-contradictory but perhaps the best they can do.
Or they could simply set aside the word 'atheist' and re-brand themselves 'agnostic,' thus ending the argument once and for all, with no loss of meaning.
This will of course never happen, but equally clearly, it is not possible to:
1) Monopolize the word 'god'
by establishing THAT definition as the only one.
2) Declare THAT 'god' non-existent.
3) Inductively conclude since THAT 'god' doesn't exist, therefore 'god does not exist.'
This cannot be logically be done.
My personal bottom line is, definitions aside, I DO 'believe' there is an explanation for everything, in every way, regardless of what you want to call it.
God?
The Unified Field Theory?
The Collective Unconscious?
The Wizard of Oz?
It doesn't matter.
Lying Christian Pastor: It’s “Scientifically Impossible to Be an Atheist” | Hemant Mehta | ...
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
I disagree the burden of proof lies more heavily on theists OR atheists.
It's an equally onerous burden, because neither group can prove their position.
Theists cannot prove god exists.
Atheists cannot prove god doesn't exist.
It's a draw.
A tie.
A dead heat.
Agnostics, on the other hand, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@MPendergraft Again I disagree and I do so respectfully. If you want to react violently and use abusive language, go right ahead.
The fact is (to stumble around in familiar weeds) there are two--actially three--options:
1) You are an ATHEIST and therefore make the claim god does not exist (to use the colloquial, commonly-understood definition of the word "atheist," NOT the esoteric etherism to which many atheists resort),
2) You are AGNOSTIC and therefore make no claim whether god exists or not, but also have no idea WHAT any existent god might be, if anything.
3) You are Ignostic, and think the whole subject cannot even be discussed, since there is no basis for it.
I'd be Ignostic except, like a lot of people here, I enjoy talking about it as one would enjoy playing with Rubik's Cube, endlessly with little or no prospect of success.
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
I disagree the burden of proof lies more heavily on theists OR atheists.
It's an equally onerous burden, because neither group can prove their position.
Theists cannot prove god exists.
Atheists cannot prove god doesn't exist.
It's a draw.
A tie.
A dead heat.
Agnostics, on the other hand, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@MPendergraft Again I disagree and I do so respectfully. If you want to react violently and use abusive language, go right ahead.
The fact is (to stumble around in familiar weeds) there are two--actially three--options:
1) You are an ATHEIST and therefore make the claim god does not exist (to use the colloquial, commonly-understood definition of the word "atheist," NOT the esoteric etherism to which many atheists resort),
2) You are AGNOSTIC and therefore make no claim whether god exists or not, but also have no idea WHAT any existent god might be, if anything.
3) You are Ignostic, and think the whole subject cannot even be discussed, since there is no basis for it.
I'd be Ignostic except, like a lot of people here, I enjoy talking about it as one would enjoy playing with Rubik's Cube, endlessly with little or no prospect of success.
In Search of God’s Perfect Proofs
Storm1752 comments on May 11, 2020:
I don't see the mathematical logic. You'd think it'd be the other way around.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@Fernapple WHAT book? The Bible? Well it's long and boring and much of it has nothing to do with you or I, but there are some good bits in there.
A mathematical blueprint of the universe? A mirror up to which we can hold reality?
Only insofar as about ANY book the same thing can be said.
And anyway, the I Ching is a much more practical tool, if one is looking for a template..
Storm1752 comments on May 11, 2020:
I don't see the mathematical logic. You'd think it'd be the other way around.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@Fernapple WHAT book? The Bible? Well it's long and boring and much of it has nothing to do with you or I, but there are some good bits in there.
A mathematical blueprint of the universe? A mirror up to which we can hold reality?
Only insofar as about ANY book the same thing can be said.
And anyway, the I Ching is a much more practical tool, if one is looking for a template..
Death takes us all, as an atheist i have no reason to fear it, I have respect of it.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
As an agnostic, I don't fear death OR look forward to it.
It's irrelevant.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@Omnedon I'd say 'irrelevant' in specifically the sense it is unavoidable and inevitable.
Now, what (if anything) happens AFTER death is relevant to some, in that they feel they must, should, and can prepare for it, as if it's a final exam
If there are no consequences, then that's also irrelevant.
If there are, the question becomes, can you prepare for it?
Burn the midnight oil.
Slip a cheat sheet up your sleeve.
More drastically, live your whole life as if you can affect the result.
If there are and you CAN'T prepare for it (if for instance your lifelong conduct cannot be orchestrated and/or doesn't matter anyway)
I'm guessing neither resolution is desirable nor likely.
The desirable and/or likely resolution?
You are who you are, the situation is fluid, changeable and uncertain, but whatever the truth is, so much of it is determined by genetic makeup, environmental factors, cultural mileu, upbringing, random circumstance, etc., that literally NO ONE can really be held personally responsible for one's actions, when it comes to "reward and punishment."
If there is such a thing as Natural Law, however, then some things ARE intrinsically "right" and some things are "wrong."
As I've said see everyone eral times, the only reliable standard for one's actions is (wait for it) the Golden Rule, and the only adjudicator of this 'law' is one's own conscience.
That said, death to me is irrelevant because it is the one certainty on which we can all count.
And as a corollary, the 'afterlife' is also irrelevant for the same reason.
That is, unless you want to subscribe to the notion we all await different fates based on our earthly conduct (which I don't), the exact same afterlife (if there is one) is in store for us all.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
As an agnostic, I don't fear death OR look forward to it.
It's irrelevant.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@Omnedon I'd say 'irrelevant' in specifically the sense it is unavoidable and inevitable.
Now, what (if anything) happens AFTER death is relevant to some, in that they feel they must, should, and can prepare for it, as if it's a final exam
If there are no consequences, then that's also irrelevant.
If there are, the question becomes, can you prepare for it?
Burn the midnight oil.
Slip a cheat sheet up your sleeve.
More drastically, live your whole life as if you can affect the result.
If there are and you CAN'T prepare for it (if for instance your lifelong conduct cannot be orchestrated and/or doesn't matter anyway)
I'm guessing neither resolution is desirable nor likely.
The desirable and/or likely resolution?
You are who you are, the situation is fluid, changeable and uncertain, but whatever the truth is, so much of it is determined by genetic makeup, environmental factors, cultural mileu, upbringing, random circumstance, etc., that literally NO ONE can really be held personally responsible for one's actions, when it comes to "reward and punishment."
If there is such a thing as Natural Law, however, then some things ARE intrinsically "right" and some things are "wrong."
As I've said see everyone eral times, the only reliable standard for one's actions is (wait for it) the Golden Rule, and the only adjudicator of this 'law' is one's own conscience.
That said, death to me is irrelevant because it is the one certainty on which we can all count.
And as a corollary, the 'afterlife' is also irrelevant for the same reason.
That is, unless you want to subscribe to the notion we all await different fates based on our earthly conduct (which I don't), the exact same afterlife (if there is one) is in store for us all.
Death takes us all, as an atheist i have no reason to fear it, I have respect of it.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
As an agnostic, I don't fear death OR look forward to it.
It's irrelevant.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@jlynn37 THEN what?
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
As an agnostic, I don't fear death OR look forward to it.
It's irrelevant.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@jlynn37 THEN what?
Morals.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
The Golden Rule is all anybody needs to know about morality.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@Word Very funny.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
The Golden Rule is all anybody needs to know about morality.
Storm1752 replies on May 11, 2020:
@Word Very funny.
Death takes us all, as an atheist i have no reason to fear it, I have respect of it.
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
As an agnostic, I don't fear death OR look forward to it.
It's irrelevant.
Storm1752 replies on May 10, 2020:
@Omnedon Why not?
Are you planning on DOING something about it?
Storm1752 comments on May 10, 2020:
As an agnostic, I don't fear death OR look forward to it.
It's irrelevant.
Storm1752 replies on May 10, 2020:
@Omnedon Why not?
Are you planning on DOING something about it?
Lying Christian Pastor: It’s “Scientifically Impossible to Be an Atheist” | Hemant Mehta | ...
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
I disagree the burden of proof lies more heavily on theists OR atheists.
It's an equally onerous burden, because neither group can prove their position.
Theists cannot prove god exists.
Atheists cannot prove god doesn't exist.
It's a draw.
A tie.
A dead heat.
Agnostics, on the other hand, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 9, 2020:
@MPendergraft Yes, you make a claim: god does not exist. You DO make that claim. To say you don't is sophistry. But you DO say it anyway.
Not getting into another pointless, neverending argument about it. I've no idea why atheists deny their obvious position, except maybe they want to elevate themselves above theists. Then they try to draw a false equivalency with Agnostics by putting both of us on some sort of 'belief spectrum scale...' and saying they're actually 'agnostic atheists' (a ridiculous and self-contradictory misnomer) because they're only 99.9% sure there is no god.They want to have their cake and eat it too! Well it doesn't wash.
But I don't expect you to agree with me.
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
I disagree the burden of proof lies more heavily on theists OR atheists.
It's an equally onerous burden, because neither group can prove their position.
Theists cannot prove god exists.
Atheists cannot prove god doesn't exist.
It's a draw.
A tie.
A dead heat.
Agnostics, on the other hand, ...
Storm1752 replies on May 9, 2020:
@MPendergraft Yes, you make a claim: god does not exist. You DO make that claim. To say you don't is sophistry. But you DO say it anyway.
Not getting into another pointless, neverending argument about it. I've no idea why atheists deny their obvious position, except maybe they want to elevate themselves above theists. Then they try to draw a false equivalency with Agnostics by putting both of us on some sort of 'belief spectrum scale...' and saying they're actually 'agnostic atheists' (a ridiculous and self-contradictory misnomer) because they're only 99.9% sure there is no god.They want to have their cake and eat it too! Well it doesn't wash.
But I don't expect you to agree with me.
Chris Hedges on Chomsky/lesser-evilism
[youtu.be]
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
Biden is BY FAR the superior choice.
Unilateral surrender is not a solution. Abandoning the playing field to far-right fascist oligarchs is not going to help matters.
Chris Hedges means well but is espousing a classic case of letting the perfect get in the way of the good.
For him to claim Noam ...
Storm1752 replies on May 7, 2020:
@ToolGuy Oligarchs didn't "dump" them. Regardless of your opinion, Biden got the most votes and won fairly based on the party's rules, which were in place long before the electoral process ever began.
You are DELUSIONAL if you place the 'blame' for the result anywhere other than where it belongs: with all those people who DIDN'T vote for Sanders, Warren, and all the other very worthy candidates who fell short.
DEAL WITH IT.
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
Biden is BY FAR the superior choice.
Unilateral surrender is not a solution. Abandoning the playing field to far-right fascist oligarchs is not going to help matters.
Chris Hedges means well but is espousing a classic case of letting the perfect get in the way of the good.
For him to claim Noam ...
Storm1752 replies on May 7, 2020:
@ToolGuy Oligarchs didn't "dump" them. Regardless of your opinion, Biden got the most votes and won fairly based on the party's rules, which were in place long before the electoral process ever began.
You are DELUSIONAL if you place the 'blame' for the result anywhere other than where it belongs: with all those people who DIDN'T vote for Sanders, Warren, and all the other very worthy candidates who fell short.
DEAL WITH IT.
Chris Hedges on Chomsky/lesser-evilism
[youtu.be]
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
Biden is BY FAR the superior choice.
Unilateral surrender is not a solution. Abandoning the playing field to far-right fascist oligarchs is not going to help matters.
Chris Hedges means well but is espousing a classic case of letting the perfect get in the way of the good.
For him to claim Noam ...
Storm1752 replies on May 7, 2020:
@ToolGuy I know his record...far from perfect...still highly preferable...and you not voting for him will not have a beneficial affect.
The reason Democratic candidates have been pushed so far to the right is because left-leaning candidates are not getting enough votes! Leftists don't vote in sufficient numbers to affect the outcome.
Instead of blaming the candidates themselves, for screwing each other over and freezing out people like Sanders, BLAME THE VOTERS for not showing up and thereby handing elections to moderate, middle-of-the-road, or even right-leaning types like Biden.
Storm1752 comments on May 7, 2020:
Biden is BY FAR the superior choice.
Unilateral surrender is not a solution. Abandoning the playing field to far-right fascist oligarchs is not going to help matters.
Chris Hedges means well but is espousing a classic case of letting the perfect get in the way of the good.
For him to claim Noam ...
Storm1752 replies on May 7, 2020:
@ToolGuy I know his record...far from perfect...still highly preferable...and you not voting for him will not have a beneficial affect.
The reason Democratic candidates have been pushed so far to the right is because left-leaning candidates are not getting enough votes! Leftists don't vote in sufficient numbers to affect the outcome.
Instead of blaming the candidates themselves, for screwing each other over and freezing out people like Sanders, BLAME THE VOTERS for not showing up and thereby handing elections to moderate, middle-of-the-road, or even right-leaning types like Biden.
Brazil is letting the coronavirus run wild with little intervention, and the results are strikingly ...
SCal comments on May 6, 2020:
Coronavirus? Is that what they're calling abject poverty brought on by socialism, these days?
It's not that Brazil is "letting" covid "run wild". It's that even the most basic medical precautions, soap, indoor plumbing, clean water, are absolute luxuries there.
Brazil also has staggeringly ...
Storm1752 replies on May 7, 2020:
So you're saying socialism is causing abject poverty, which is causing Coronavirus among other things?
Is this your scientific opinion?
When are people going to stop confusing authoritarian communist top-down command economies with democratic socialism?
It amounts to an abuse of language to make an illegitimate political point.
SCal comments on May 6, 2020:
Coronavirus? Is that what they're calling abject poverty brought on by socialism, these days?
It's not that Brazil is "letting" covid "run wild". It's that even the most basic medical precautions, soap, indoor plumbing, clean water, are absolute luxuries there.
Brazil also has staggeringly ...
Storm1752 replies on May 7, 2020:
So you're saying socialism is causing abject poverty, which is causing Coronavirus among other things?
Is this your scientific opinion?
When are people going to stop confusing authoritarian communist top-down command economies with democratic socialism?
It amounts to an abuse of language to make an illegitimate political point.
I'm getting tired of seeing this "Are we living in a simulation?
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@Normanbites Tiresome, and boring.
But really, have a good life.
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@Normanbites Tiresome, and boring.
But really, have a good life.
A Poll:
Should President Trump resign due to his mishandling of the SARS-CoV-2 Crisis?
Storm1752 comments on Apr 26, 2020:
What good would that do?
It'd install Mike Pence, who is 100 times worse than Trump ever thought of being.
Pence would have the full-throated support of the evangelicals and other far-right types, and would probably stand a better chance of winning.
Trump is a figurehead (and not a very good one)...
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@kmaz Nonsense.
Storm1752 comments on Apr 26, 2020:
What good would that do?
It'd install Mike Pence, who is 100 times worse than Trump ever thought of being.
Pence would have the full-throated support of the evangelicals and other far-right types, and would probably stand a better chance of winning.
Trump is a figurehead (and not a very good one)...
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@kmaz Nonsense.
I'm getting tired of seeing this "Are we living in a simulation?
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@Normanbites Evidence doesn't have to be conclusive; it can just point out something in a certain direction leading to further investigation.
As usual you point out an obviously extreme straw dog to make a phony point. Drinking cleaning products isn't even "wallowing in speculative fantasy" because it's an action based on irrational and provably false misinformation, not 'speculation' at all. Besides, I'm not talking about 'wild speculation' at all and you know it. SPECULATING about extraterrestials is a completely different thought process. This shows you to be not interested in a serious conversation, but merely scoring empty points.
Anyway have a good life.
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@Normanbites Evidence doesn't have to be conclusive; it can just point out something in a certain direction leading to further investigation.
As usual you point out an obviously extreme straw dog to make a phony point. Drinking cleaning products isn't even "wallowing in speculative fantasy" because it's an action based on irrational and provably false misinformation, not 'speculation' at all. Besides, I'm not talking about 'wild speculation' at all and you know it. SPECULATING about extraterrestials is a completely different thought process. This shows you to be not interested in a serious conversation, but merely scoring empty points.
Anyway have a good life.
[youtu.
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
I have a hard time thinking of Joe Biden as a molester of women. Sorry. I just do.
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@Seriousreason I don't accept the word 'evil.'
I've also a problem with the MeToo movement. Not that it's 'okay' to molest women, but I think a lot of it is confused communication and/or misunderstanding, Could it possibly be as widespread and endemic as it seems? The whole issue seems to lack clarity. It may be because men feel REQUIRED to initiate social contact as an attempt to establish relationships, the problem comes about because this in and of itself risks crossed signals and uncertainty.
Of COURSE some men are predatory and exploitative. On the other hand, a lack of social skills may contribute to not only unsuccessful romantic overtures, but failed social interactions in general.
In other words, it may not be a sexual misadventure or a predatory act at all, but an overall inability to function socially, which may manifest itself on many levels.
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
I have a hard time thinking of Joe Biden as a molester of women. Sorry. I just do.
Storm1752 replies on May 5, 2020:
@Seriousreason I don't accept the word 'evil.'
I've also a problem with the MeToo movement. Not that it's 'okay' to molest women, but I think a lot of it is confused communication and/or misunderstanding, Could it possibly be as widespread and endemic as it seems? The whole issue seems to lack clarity. It may be because men feel REQUIRED to initiate social contact as an attempt to establish relationships, the problem comes about because this in and of itself risks crossed signals and uncertainty.
Of COURSE some men are predatory and exploitative. On the other hand, a lack of social skills may contribute to not only unsuccessful romantic overtures, but failed social interactions in general.
In other words, it may not be a sexual misadventure or a predatory act at all, but an overall inability to function socially, which may manifest itself on many levels.
I'm getting tired of seeing this "Are we living in a simulation?
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 2, 2020:
@Normanbites I think atheists take things so absurdly literally it gets more 'demented than Biden!'
The Matrix was a great, classic science fiction movie...or do you not watch and/or enjoy science fiction because it can't be "proven?"
The Point was and is, we live in a society/world in which reality MIGHT AS WELL be manufactured AS IF we're/are in a computer simulation.
It is not nor was it meant to be a direct riff on god, figuratively or literally.
Rather, it is an indictment of 'sheeple' who allow their very 'souls' (human autonomy) to be hooked up to machines which suck away their life force in exchange for the ILLUSION of security. They are willing, it is saying, to surrender control of themselves, and their right to think independently, in exchange for the false comfort of blind and thoughtless conformity.
By consciously and deliberately taking the blue pill, Neo makes the decision to see life for what it really is, and refuses to accept the societally-induced hallucination that life is easy and free regardless of the choices one makes.
Something like that.
It's ALLEGORY. Not everything has to be taken literally!
AND, just because something hasn't been conclusively and definitively stamped with the Seal of Approval of the Scientific Method does not mean it's certifiably false. There is room for speculation and conjecture, in other words. Not everything is either/or, black/white, true/false.
Worst of all, atheists are BOOORING! They pride themselves on being unblinkingly, scrupulously and painstakingly honest, of heroically refusing to delude themselves with fairy castles in the clouds, but most of them throw away all the fun things in life in the bargain. Unfortunately for them, they also throw out a lot of common sense, educated guesses, and intriguing possibilities.
No, for example, agnostic can 'prove' god exists, but it MIGHT in some sense unrelated to a religious context. An atheist usually condemns the very thought.
When an agnostic speculates about the real possibility of extraterrestrials, an atheist might tut derisively, 'You just can't let go of your god delusions!'
Panpsychism? The paranormal? Crop Circles?
God, god, god!!!
There's a god behind every bush! Lurking around every corner! Beneath every rock!
Sorry, I can't live in state of constant denial of everything I can't measure with a tape measure, weigh on a scale and poke with a stick. I'll leave that to you.
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 2, 2020:
@Normanbites I think atheists take things so absurdly literally it gets more 'demented than Biden!'
The Matrix was a great, classic science fiction movie...or do you not watch and/or enjoy science fiction because it can't be "proven?"
The Point was and is, we live in a society/world in which reality MIGHT AS WELL be manufactured AS IF we're/are in a computer simulation.
It is not nor was it meant to be a direct riff on god, figuratively or literally.
Rather, it is an indictment of 'sheeple' who allow their very 'souls' (human autonomy) to be hooked up to machines which suck away their life force in exchange for the ILLUSION of security. They are willing, it is saying, to surrender control of themselves, and their right to think independently, in exchange for the false comfort of blind and thoughtless conformity.
By consciously and deliberately taking the blue pill, Neo makes the decision to see life for what it really is, and refuses to accept the societally-induced hallucination that life is easy and free regardless of the choices one makes.
Something like that.
It's ALLEGORY. Not everything has to be taken literally!
AND, just because something hasn't been conclusively and definitively stamped with the Seal of Approval of the Scientific Method does not mean it's certifiably false. There is room for speculation and conjecture, in other words. Not everything is either/or, black/white, true/false.
Worst of all, atheists are BOOORING! They pride themselves on being unblinkingly, scrupulously and painstakingly honest, of heroically refusing to delude themselves with fairy castles in the clouds, but most of them throw away all the fun things in life in the bargain. Unfortunately for them, they also throw out a lot of common sense, educated guesses, and intriguing possibilities.
No, for example, agnostic can 'prove' god exists, but it MIGHT in some sense unrelated to a religious context. An atheist usually condemns the very thought.
When an agnostic speculates about the real possibility of extraterrestrials, an atheist might tut derisively, 'You just can't let go of your god delusions!'
Panpsychism? The paranormal? Crop Circles?
God, god, god!!!
There's a god behind every bush! Lurking around every corner! Beneath every rock!
Sorry, I can't live in state of constant denial of everything I can't measure with a tape measure, weigh on a scale and poke with a stick. I'll leave that to you.
I'm getting tired of seeing this "Are we living in a simulation?
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@Normanbites Well...DOES he...?
Storm1752 comments on May 1, 2020:
Well...are we?
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@Normanbites Well...DOES he...?
So if Tara Reade appears to have a credible case or accusation against Biden for sexual assault, do ...
barjoe comments on Apr 30, 2020:
I've heard of Bernie Bros, which is a thing. I never heard of Biden Bros. Whoever they are don't let them bully you. Vote for whoever you want. Who's Tara Reade? Making the rounds on FoxNews?
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@RoboGraham The 'Biden Bros,' huh?
Do they come visit you with an offer you can't refuse?
barjoe comments on Apr 30, 2020:
I've heard of Bernie Bros, which is a thing. I never heard of Biden Bros. Whoever they are don't let them bully you. Vote for whoever you want. Who's Tara Reade? Making the rounds on FoxNews?
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@RoboGraham The 'Biden Bros,' huh?
Do they come visit you with an offer you can't refuse?
How do you rationalize the paranormal?
anglophone comments on May 1, 2020:
I do not accept the existence of "the paranormal". Every one of us lives in the natural world, and to claim that there are things are outside the natural world is absurd: if such things exist then they are be definition part of the natural world. To proclaim the existence of the paranormal is a ...
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
Wow.
Such an intelligent answer.
Did you think that up yourself?
anglophone comments on May 1, 2020:
I do not accept the existence of "the paranormal". Every one of us lives in the natural world, and to claim that there are things are outside the natural world is absurd: if such things exist then they are be definition part of the natural world. To proclaim the existence of the paranormal is a ...
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
Wow.
Such an intelligent answer.
Did you think that up yourself?
Truly sad how these people stay in office.. [cagw.org]
barjoe comments on May 1, 2020:
How about the $877 billion that went for bailout of Boeing, Airlines, Meat Packing industry among others? Is that pork? Or are only programs that benefit working citizens considered Government Waste?
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@Bobby9 Since when is $25 million to refurbish and upgrade the Kennedy Center wasteful pork? You have something against the Kennedy Center?
barjoe comments on May 1, 2020:
How about the $877 billion that went for bailout of Boeing, Airlines, Meat Packing industry among others? Is that pork? Or are only programs that benefit working citizens considered Government Waste?
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@Bobby9 Since when is $25 million to refurbish and upgrade the Kennedy Center wasteful pork? You have something against the Kennedy Center?
Pulitzer winner Chris Hedges: These "are the good times — compared to what's coming next" | ...
LeighShelton comments on May 1, 2020:
the whole human race is a dead end species
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@LeighShelton How many seems about right?
100 million?
Two billion?
LeighShelton comments on May 1, 2020:
the whole human race is a dead end species
Storm1752 replies on May 1, 2020:
@LeighShelton How many seems about right?
100 million?
Two billion?
I am the strange one. My fears would be from the bottom to the top.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
I'm now in North Florida.
Never before heard of yellow flies, the scourge of May and June, but a threat all summer long.
Mosquitos? Alligators? Snakes?
Ha!
PALMETTO BUGS? What?!?
No. Sorry. Come up to my neck of the woods in about four months.
Bring your head/shoulders netting, your ...
Storm1752 replies on Apr 30, 2020:
@David_ver_3 I built a huge screened-in porch, and just recently built a pond which I'm now in the process of enclosing, so I'll have roughly 1800 square feet of insect-free space. It's necessary because I'm in the deep woods. A lot of the neighbors clear their land of trees/brush/ vegetation and have huge lawns, but I want it woody.
I love Newberry. I would've bought in Alachua County but too expensive!
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
I'm now in North Florida.
Never before heard of yellow flies, the scourge of May and June, but a threat all summer long.
Mosquitos? Alligators? Snakes?
Ha!
PALMETTO BUGS? What?!?
No. Sorry. Come up to my neck of the woods in about four months.
Bring your head/shoulders netting, your ...
Storm1752 replies on Apr 30, 2020:
@David_ver_3 I built a huge screened-in porch, and just recently built a pond which I'm now in the process of enclosing, so I'll have roughly 1800 square feet of insect-free space. It's necessary because I'm in the deep woods. A lot of the neighbors clear their land of trees/brush/ vegetation and have huge lawns, but I want it woody.
I love Newberry. I would've bought in Alachua County but too expensive!
Have we normalized hypersexuality in the USA?
Storm1752 comments on Apr 27, 2020:
It's all a myth manufactured by salespeople to hype their latest product.
Storm1752 replies on Apr 30, 2020:
@domos Oh, really?
Maybe what they're REALLY doing is chasing the myth. You speak as if hysterical hyperbole can actually change the reality of a human being's anatomy.
It CAN change a person's PERCEPTION of that reality, though, if he or she allows him- or herself to get swept up by all the breathless fantasy hype and actually tries to live up to it.
Good luck with that.
Storm1752 comments on Apr 27, 2020:
It's all a myth manufactured by salespeople to hype their latest product.
Storm1752 replies on Apr 30, 2020:
@domos Oh, really?
Maybe what they're REALLY doing is chasing the myth. You speak as if hysterical hyperbole can actually change the reality of a human being's anatomy.
It CAN change a person's PERCEPTION of that reality, though, if he or she allows him- or herself to get swept up by all the breathless fantasy hype and actually tries to live up to it.
Good luck with that.
A Poll:
Should President Trump resign due to his mishandling of the SARS-CoV-2 Crisis?
Storm1752 comments on Apr 26, 2020:
What good would that do?
It'd install Mike Pence, who is 100 times worse than Trump ever thought of being.
Pence would have the full-throated support of the evangelicals and other far-right types, and would probably stand a better chance of winning.
Trump is a figurehead (and not a very good one)...
Storm1752 replies on Apr 30, 2020:
@kmaz That's funny...I've PANDERED? What, you think I'm a politician?!?
I'm merely saying the Republican party is more than happy to let him flail incompetently away and incite the ire of people like you, while they are busy at work behind the scenes implementing their far-right, Libertarian, Objectivist, 'Prosperity' agenda.
Who knows WHAT Trump is, ideologically? A secular pragmatist egomaniac? Has he ever articulated an overreaching 'vision' of any kind, ala Reagan? If so, I don't remember it.
To me, he seems oddly self-contained and insular, not connected to any particular 'movenent' or 'cause.'
But the people behind him are VERY dedicated to Republican causes, you may be sure!
To say he's a "would-be dictator" is humorous because he seems even farther away from realizing any such ambitions than any other recent president. Closest: maybe W....but we all know it could only happen for real with gargantuan majorities in both houses of Congress and their fervent, rabid support. Not happening.
True, more damage is being done to the US economy every day, but that's the case with EVERY Republican president (remember 2008?) pursuing soak-the-middle class policies.
So I would STOP bashing Trump as much as the entire rotten Republican machine. If ANYTHING has ALREADY damaged us almost beyond recognition, it is that reactionary force which would presumably drag us back to pre-Enlightenment days when aristocrats ruled fiefdoms and human rights hadn't been invented yet.
It's as if the elite are trying to get the rabble to THINK like rich people without actually having any money or any of it's attendant perks...and doing a fine job of it.
Storm1752 comments on Apr 26, 2020:
What good would that do?
It'd install Mike Pence, who is 100 times worse than Trump ever thought of being.
Pence would have the full-throated support of the evangelicals and other far-right types, and would probably stand a better chance of winning.
Trump is a figurehead (and not a very good one)...
Storm1752 replies on Apr 30, 2020:
@kmaz That's funny...I've PANDERED? What, you think I'm a politician?!?
I'm merely saying the Republican party is more than happy to let him flail incompetently away and incite the ire of people like you, while they are busy at work behind the scenes implementing their far-right, Libertarian, Objectivist, 'Prosperity' agenda.
Who knows WHAT Trump is, ideologically? A secular pragmatist egomaniac? Has he ever articulated an overreaching 'vision' of any kind, ala Reagan? If so, I don't remember it.
To me, he seems oddly self-contained and insular, not connected to any particular 'movenent' or 'cause.'
But the people behind him are VERY dedicated to Republican causes, you may be sure!
To say he's a "would-be dictator" is humorous because he seems even farther away from realizing any such ambitions than any other recent president. Closest: maybe W....but we all know it could only happen for real with gargantuan majorities in both houses of Congress and their fervent, rabid support. Not happening.
True, more damage is being done to the US economy every day, but that's the case with EVERY Republican president (remember 2008?) pursuing soak-the-middle class policies.
So I would STOP bashing Trump as much as the entire rotten Republican machine. If ANYTHING has ALREADY damaged us almost beyond recognition, it is that reactionary force which would presumably drag us back to pre-Enlightenment days when aristocrats ruled fiefdoms and human rights hadn't been invented yet.
It's as if the elite are trying to get the rabble to THINK like rich people without actually having any money or any of it's attendant perks...and doing a fine job of it.
When I die, as we all must, I hope for peace: maybe even a dreamless sleep as the Buddhist's yearn ...
Storm1752 comments on Apr 26, 2020:
I think there may be an afterlife, but why worry about it now?
Fear of hell?
As we have 'proven' over and over again, there's no such thing.
Fear of loss of self?
Not a 'thing' in my book.
The moment of death only hurts for a second.
Storm1752 replies on Apr 27, 2020:
@Joanne Good point; I was talking about bodily breakdown and terminal illness, not the moment of death itself.
It must be very hard watching your once vibrant, youthful body grow ever more frail and helpless, finally to fall apart completely and go through such misery.
Especially living through the realization your life is...YOU are...finished!
Storm1752 comments on Apr 26, 2020:
I think there may be an afterlife, but why worry about it now?
Fear of hell?
As we have 'proven' over and over again, there's no such thing.
Fear of loss of self?
Not a 'thing' in my book.
The moment of death only hurts for a second.
Storm1752 replies on Apr 27, 2020:
@Joanne Good point; I was talking about bodily breakdown and terminal illness, not the moment of death itself.
It must be very hard watching your once vibrant, youthful body grow ever more frail and helpless, finally to fall apart completely and go through such misery.
Especially living through the realization your life is...YOU are...finished!
Could this be the end of the world?
Word comments on Apr 22, 2020:
And nobody seems to care except those who can't do anything about it. Seems very true. Could it be that power blinds people that have power to prevent them from doing what really needs to be done. Rather than see to it that their own selfish agendas are taken care of.
Storm1752 replies on Apr 22, 2020:
Excellent point
Word comments on Apr 22, 2020:
And nobody seems to care except those who can't do anything about it. Seems very true. Could it be that power blinds people that have power to prevent them from doing what really needs to be done. Rather than see to it that their own selfish agendas are taken care of.
Storm1752 replies on Apr 22, 2020:
Excellent point
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