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I've just started reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and he say something that I never ...
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
I agree, with this caveat:
As an agnostic, I've the right to hypothesize all kinds of wild ideas; to wit:
IF you define 'god' as all matter and energy in the universe, possessed of a kind of 'consciousness,' the polytheistic model might be more appropriate;
that is, each particle, down to the ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@SeriouslyNobody IF these quarks gather together gravitationally first into atoms and then into more and more complex life forms, so too consciousness would become more and complex.
Perhaps human beings are the most complex forms here, but evolution continues, so too consciousness would continue to evolve.
So if your '1' represents consciousness at the quark level, maybe we're a '20' ever evolving, becoming more complex.
Some extraterrestials may be a '50,' some higher. To us, they might have appeared in the past to have god-like powers, be gods.
The exact numbers are unimportant; the idea itself seems to have some small degree of plausibility.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
I agree, with this caveat:
As an agnostic, I've the right to hypothesize all kinds of wild ideas; to wit:
IF you define 'god' as all matter and energy in the universe, possessed of a kind of 'consciousness,' the polytheistic model might be more appropriate;
that is, each particle, down to the ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@SeriouslyNobody IF these quarks gather together gravitationally first into atoms and then into more and more complex life forms, so too consciousness would become more and complex.
Perhaps human beings are the most complex forms here, but evolution continues, so too consciousness would continue to evolve.
So if your '1' represents consciousness at the quark level, maybe we're a '20' ever evolving, becoming more complex.
Some extraterrestials may be a '50,' some higher. To us, they might have appeared in the past to have god-like powers, be gods.
The exact numbers are unimportant; the idea itself seems to have some small degree of plausibility.
Iceland Declares All Religions Are Mental Disorders
[patheos.com]
What are opinions here?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
I applaud Iceland and Sweden for their principled and enlightened stands.
While I don't see religion as necessarily a "mental disorder," in some of it's myriad forms (fundamentalist Christianity, jihad Islam, etc.) it most certainly IS deranged and potentially harmful especially to vulnerable, ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@WilliamFleming Oh well.
Been punked before!
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
I applaud Iceland and Sweden for their principled and enlightened stands.
While I don't see religion as necessarily a "mental disorder," in some of it's myriad forms (fundamentalist Christianity, jihad Islam, etc.) it most certainly IS deranged and potentially harmful especially to vulnerable, ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@WilliamFleming Oh well.
Been punked before!
I've just started reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and he say something that I never ...
WilliamFleming comments on Feb 14, 2020:
I think that the One-God idea makes a lot more sense than to worship and pay sacrifice to a variety of fanciful and mythical but human-like gods and goddesses. It was definitely an advance.
“God” is just a label for something that is ineffable and beyond our understanding. Arguing over ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
Very good.
Spoken like a true agnostic.
WilliamFleming comments on Feb 14, 2020:
I think that the One-God idea makes a lot more sense than to worship and pay sacrifice to a variety of fanciful and mythical but human-like gods and goddesses. It was definitely an advance.
“God” is just a label for something that is ineffable and beyond our understanding. Arguing over ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
Very good.
Spoken like a true agnostic.
I've just started reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and he say something that I never ...
itsmedammit comments on Feb 14, 2020:
Guess it was becoming difficult to sell all those gods. The mono god seems to be changing as well. I've noticed (within my small world) a drift from believing in a sky daddy to fuzzier concepts such as a spiritual feeling or force. And for diversity some like to worship Mother Nature.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
Mother Nature being 'Gaia.'
Gaia was a Greek goddess.
These days, it means to some the concept of the entire Earth being a living, breathing 'organism' of which we are a part.
At it's apex, we're responsible (unfortunately at present!) for regulating the conditions which make life possible...the 'brain,' as it were.
It could be argued this 'spiritualist' concept is an improvement over the patriarchal, Judeo-Christian one of 'god' and nature being entirely separate, we having 'dominion,' etc.
'Gaia' isn't a goddess, of course, and neither is the Earth.
Just an interesting way the advancements in scientific knowledge prompts some people to use old concepts in new ways which correspond more closely to reality.
itsmedammit comments on Feb 14, 2020:
Guess it was becoming difficult to sell all those gods. The mono god seems to be changing as well. I've noticed (within my small world) a drift from believing in a sky daddy to fuzzier concepts such as a spiritual feeling or force. And for diversity some like to worship Mother Nature.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
Mother Nature being 'Gaia.'
Gaia was a Greek goddess.
These days, it means to some the concept of the entire Earth being a living, breathing 'organism' of which we are a part.
At it's apex, we're responsible (unfortunately at present!) for regulating the conditions which make life possible...the 'brain,' as it were.
It could be argued this 'spiritualist' concept is an improvement over the patriarchal, Judeo-Christian one of 'god' and nature being entirely separate, we having 'dominion,' etc.
'Gaia' isn't a goddess, of course, and neither is the Earth.
Just an interesting way the advancements in scientific knowledge prompts some people to use old concepts in new ways which correspond more closely to reality.
Thanks @Sheannutt
twshield comments on Feb 13, 2020:
The story of Hilary Clinton's life!
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@MissKathleen That's so bogus. NOT taking corporate money is the same as unilateral surrender.
The problem is with campaign finance election laws. They took a stab at fixing it, but it was too weak, the right-wing Supreme Court ruled money was free speech, and the flood gates opened.
I know, Bernie is different. Good for him.
But the only alternative for most is to be a billionaire.
Ironic: the only people who don't have to take money from billionaires are other billionaires.
twshield comments on Feb 13, 2020:
The story of Hilary Clinton's life!
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@MissKathleen That's so bogus. NOT taking corporate money is the same as unilateral surrender.
The problem is with campaign finance election laws. They took a stab at fixing it, but it was too weak, the right-wing Supreme Court ruled money was free speech, and the flood gates opened.
I know, Bernie is different. Good for him.
But the only alternative for most is to be a billionaire.
Ironic: the only people who don't have to take money from billionaires are other billionaires.
I discover more and more that in any group of people, there's a tendency for it to fragment.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
Agnostics don't agree there is no god. God is irrelevant. Only people matter.
That said, the Democratic Party is VERY fragmented.
Why?
Republicans have been systematically dismantling the Democratic system by which we establish what the majority wants the government to do.
Believing they speak ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@Omnedon HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two parties. The real problem is, liberals do not VOTE! Why they don't is a mystery.
Oh you can think of all kinds of 'reasons,' but they are meaningless compared to the bald-faced fact they just don't seem to care.
Say what you will about conservatives...they VOTE!
That's the simple truth of the matter.
And if they don't care, there's really not much more to say, is there?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
Agnostics don't agree there is no god. God is irrelevant. Only people matter.
That said, the Democratic Party is VERY fragmented.
Why?
Republicans have been systematically dismantling the Democratic system by which we establish what the majority wants the government to do.
Believing they speak ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@Omnedon HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two parties. The real problem is, liberals do not VOTE! Why they don't is a mystery.
Oh you can think of all kinds of 'reasons,' but they are meaningless compared to the bald-faced fact they just don't seem to care.
Say what you will about conservatives...they VOTE!
That's the simple truth of the matter.
And if they don't care, there's really not much more to say, is there?
I discover more and more that in any group of people, there's a tendency for it to fragment.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
Agnostics don't agree there is no god. God is irrelevant. Only people matter.
That said, the Democratic Party is VERY fragmented.
Why?
Republicans have been systematically dismantling the Democratic system by which we establish what the majority wants the government to do.
Believing they speak ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@Detritus Do you vote?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 14, 2020:
Agnostics don't agree there is no god. God is irrelevant. Only people matter.
That said, the Democratic Party is VERY fragmented.
Why?
Republicans have been systematically dismantling the Democratic system by which we establish what the majority wants the government to do.
Believing they speak ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 14, 2020:
@Detritus Do you vote?
Why some believe in God
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
Very good stance, and the only reasonable one
This frees you up to all kinds of theories, possibilities, and much fruitful discussion.
What do you think: primitive people thought extraterrestials were 'gods' and on them based early religions?
Some will tell you nothing is possible; the truth ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@maturin1919 No, an agnostic doesn't NOT believe in a 'god.' It's irrelevant whether a 'god' exists or not. If 'god' exists, it is not involved in the physical universe, including you and I, so it doesn't matter. Either way, it has nothing to do with me.
Agnostics DON'T CARE.
Live a decent, honorable life, die, THEN it becomes relevant, not before.
Unless, of course, 'god' proves itself by interceding on my behalf in some obvious way (which I sincerely doubt is going to happen).
An agnostic doesn't mock believers or nonbelievers, is not concerned about it EXCEPT doesn't like to be compared or likened in some way with one or the other.
Agnosticism is a separate and distinct category.
Personally speaking, I see it all as supposition and conjecture...I enjoy theorizing about it, but that's a very different thing.
Put another way, I doubt a personal 'god' exists, but SOME kind of 'god' might, something which explains the whole thing, makes sense of it.
Who knows?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
Very good stance, and the only reasonable one
This frees you up to all kinds of theories, possibilities, and much fruitful discussion.
What do you think: primitive people thought extraterrestials were 'gods' and on them based early religions?
Some will tell you nothing is possible; the truth ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@maturin1919 No, an agnostic doesn't NOT believe in a 'god.' It's irrelevant whether a 'god' exists or not. If 'god' exists, it is not involved in the physical universe, including you and I, so it doesn't matter. Either way, it has nothing to do with me.
Agnostics DON'T CARE.
Live a decent, honorable life, die, THEN it becomes relevant, not before.
Unless, of course, 'god' proves itself by interceding on my behalf in some obvious way (which I sincerely doubt is going to happen).
An agnostic doesn't mock believers or nonbelievers, is not concerned about it EXCEPT doesn't like to be compared or likened in some way with one or the other.
Agnosticism is a separate and distinct category.
Personally speaking, I see it all as supposition and conjecture...I enjoy theorizing about it, but that's a very different thing.
Put another way, I doubt a personal 'god' exists, but SOME kind of 'god' might, something which explains the whole thing, makes sense of it.
Who knows?
Did 60s and 70s protest rock die an inevitable death with the end of the Vietnam War, or was it ...
Storm1752 comments on Aug 3, 2019:
Sooo....not a conscious effort by the "establishment" to "normalize" things and get back to the business of stealing from the poor, soaking it up by the rich?
Maybe not.
But that famous 1971 memo from Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce comes to mind.
He urged the...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@godless4life I just ordered a copy.
Thanks.
I've read a lot about the subject so I might be aware of some of her content but that's okay.
Most people have no idea what is going on.
Storm1752 comments on Aug 3, 2019:
Sooo....not a conscious effort by the "establishment" to "normalize" things and get back to the business of stealing from the poor, soaking it up by the rich?
Maybe not.
But that famous 1971 memo from Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce comes to mind.
He urged the...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@godless4life I just ordered a copy.
Thanks.
I've read a lot about the subject so I might be aware of some of her content but that's okay.
Most people have no idea what is going on.
Why some believe in God
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
Very good stance, and the only reasonable one
This frees you up to all kinds of theories, possibilities, and much fruitful discussion.
What do you think: primitive people thought extraterrestials were 'gods' and on them based early religions?
Some will tell you nothing is possible; the truth ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@DavidLaDeau Not THIS again!
Not going there! Except to say Atheism IS a belief, in the NON-existence of a personal entity called 'god.'
Agnosticism is a simple acknowledgment belief or non-belief, without evidence, is impossible.
Okay?
Not interested in semantic word games at present
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
Very good stance, and the only reasonable one
This frees you up to all kinds of theories, possibilities, and much fruitful discussion.
What do you think: primitive people thought extraterrestials were 'gods' and on them based early religions?
Some will tell you nothing is possible; the truth ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@DavidLaDeau Not THIS again!
Not going there! Except to say Atheism IS a belief, in the NON-existence of a personal entity called 'god.'
Agnosticism is a simple acknowledgment belief or non-belief, without evidence, is impossible.
Okay?
Not interested in semantic word games at present
I am the strange one. My fears would be from the bottom to the top.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
I'm now in North Florida.
Never before heard of yellow flies, the scourge of May and June, but a threat all summer long.
Mosquitos? Alligators? Snakes?
Ha!
PALMETTO BUGS? What?!?
No. Sorry. Come up to my neck of the woods in about four months.
Bring your head/shoulders netting, your ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@EyesThatSmile They're very pretty, which belies their evil, vampire-like, vicious, bloodsucking intent!
Storm1752 comments on Feb 12, 2020:
I'm now in North Florida.
Never before heard of yellow flies, the scourge of May and June, but a threat all summer long.
Mosquitos? Alligators? Snakes?
Ha!
PALMETTO BUGS? What?!?
No. Sorry. Come up to my neck of the woods in about four months.
Bring your head/shoulders netting, your ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 13, 2020:
@EyesThatSmile They're very pretty, which belies their evil, vampire-like, vicious, bloodsucking intent!
Florida provides the world with so much entertainment:
[abcactionnews.com]
yvilletom comments on Feb 12, 2020:
Gee, soon after my wife and I left Florida in 1966, Texas in 1969, and Arizona in 1976, those three states went from moderate to crazy conservative. If we had stayed, ...?
Storm1752 replies on Feb 12, 2020:
The world would've been a better place.
yvilletom comments on Feb 12, 2020:
Gee, soon after my wife and I left Florida in 1966, Texas in 1969, and Arizona in 1976, those three states went from moderate to crazy conservative. If we had stayed, ...?
Storm1752 replies on Feb 12, 2020:
The world would've been a better place.
America Isn’t Growing Hostile Towards Christians, It’s Growing Hostile Towards Religious ...
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
I for one certainly don't feel sorry for our poor beleaguered Christians. Most of US were probably ones ourselves, so we know of what we speak.
Their main problem seems to me, is they ARE in the process of losing their iron-clad grip on the hearts and minds of a significant number of people...good!...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 12, 2020:
@snytiger6 No I'm talking about a different movie, the one directed by Scocese, The Last Temptation of Christ, NOT The Passion of the Christ, directed by radical buffoon Mel Gibson.
Both are fantasy of the highest order, of course; it's just that one is "cool" and the other is sadistic.
I never saw the sadistic one, and never will.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
I for one certainly don't feel sorry for our poor beleaguered Christians. Most of US were probably ones ourselves, so we know of what we speak.
Their main problem seems to me, is they ARE in the process of losing their iron-clad grip on the hearts and minds of a significant number of people...good!...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 12, 2020:
@snytiger6 No I'm talking about a different movie, the one directed by Scocese, The Last Temptation of Christ, NOT The Passion of the Christ, directed by radical buffoon Mel Gibson.
Both are fantasy of the highest order, of course; it's just that one is "cool" and the other is sadistic.
I never saw the sadistic one, and never will.
Incredibly, it seems to be so... There are Atheists who fear hell!
[patheos.com]
Donotbelieve comments on Feb 11, 2020:
I am neither weak minded or unintelligent as some of the members have commented below.
I am an atheist. I fear hell. I struggle with it often. I do not believe it is a real place but my fear is real.
I do not require anyone to understand but I do require respect.
I daily attempt to ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
Awww....poor baby...
Donotbelieve comments on Feb 11, 2020:
I am neither weak minded or unintelligent as some of the members have commented below.
I am an atheist. I fear hell. I struggle with it often. I do not believe it is a real place but my fear is real.
I do not require anyone to understand but I do require respect.
I daily attempt to ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
Awww....poor baby...
Incredibly, it seems to be so... There are Atheists who fear hell!
[patheos.com]
Cast1es comments on Feb 11, 2020:
This one's easy . According to the Bible , God created angels . One of the Angels was Lucifer , which means bearer of Light . Lucifer revolted against God , so God cast him out of Heaven . Lucifer / Satan was cast into Hell . If God created Lucifer / Satan . but God does not exist , then he could ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
That oughta do it.
Cast1es comments on Feb 11, 2020:
This one's easy . According to the Bible , God created angels . One of the Angels was Lucifer , which means bearer of Light . Lucifer revolted against God , so God cast him out of Heaven . Lucifer / Satan was cast into Hell . If God created Lucifer / Satan . but God does not exist , then he could ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
That oughta do it.
I wish Christians would just be honest and say they have NO idea what happens when a person dies?
DenoPenno comments on Feb 11, 2020:
The only thing Pascal's Wager does is claim you have lost nothing if you live your life and follow teachings of a god even if you doubt the existence of such god. Believers in this concept forget or lay aside the fact that your all knowing god would know you were not totally sincere. They think this...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
Your opinion.
DenoPenno comments on Feb 11, 2020:
The only thing Pascal's Wager does is claim you have lost nothing if you live your life and follow teachings of a god even if you doubt the existence of such god. Believers in this concept forget or lay aside the fact that your all knowing god would know you were not totally sincere. They think this...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
Your opinion.
What happened when you came out of the closet as an atheist?
joeymf86 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
My junior year of high school I realized I was an atheist. Sometimes my family would go to church if there was something special happening at my grandfather's church or the church of one of my dad's friends. My dad would always give us money to put in the offering plate. Well, I didn't put the money...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
Did you explain god and Satan come as a package deal, so unbelief in one means unbelief in the other?
joeymf86 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
My junior year of high school I realized I was an atheist. Sometimes my family would go to church if there was something special happening at my grandfather's church or the church of one of my dad's friends. My dad would always give us money to put in the offering plate. Well, I didn't put the money...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
Did you explain god and Satan come as a package deal, so unbelief in one means unbelief in the other?
America Isn’t Growing Hostile Towards Christians, It’s Growing Hostile Towards Religious ...
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
I for one certainly don't feel sorry for our poor beleaguered Christians. Most of US were probably ones ourselves, so we know of what we speak.
Their main problem seems to me, is they ARE in the process of losing their iron-clad grip on the hearts and minds of a significant number of people...good!...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@snytiger6 The Last Temptation of Christ is a much more interesting and entertaining fantasy, but no less ridiculous.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
I for one certainly don't feel sorry for our poor beleaguered Christians. Most of US were probably ones ourselves, so we know of what we speak.
Their main problem seems to me, is they ARE in the process of losing their iron-clad grip on the hearts and minds of a significant number of people...good!...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@snytiger6 The Last Temptation of Christ is a much more interesting and entertaining fantasy, but no less ridiculous.
If you ever find yourself have to explain your entire belief system to someone that has no ...
Storm1752 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
The TECHNICAL definitions of the three "isms" do not tell the whole story.
The COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD definitions are much more meaningful, because clearer and simpler to understand. Clarity is everything when discussing this subject.
*Atheist--doesn't believe in a 'god;' that is, a separate, ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@Geoffrey51 I'll speak for myself: endless discussions about 'god' are beside the point. I think each constituent of the universe is connected to each other one. Matter and energy is the sum total. Many think it is conscious both as individual particles AND as a whole. A 'personal god' is not relevant to that discussion. It ignores all else happening at an incredibly high level, whether it be extraterrestials, reincarnation, parapsychological phenomena, quantum physics, futurism, 'spiritualism' in general. None of this requires an 'entity' called 'god,' but it does require freeing the mind of the 'bubble,' by refraining from the constant harping on, reacting against, complaining about, etc., the shortcomings and crimes of organized religion. Yes it deserves that and it should continue, but there is so much more to the entirety of the world than human beings trapped inside of the misconceptions and prejudices their extremely narrow world view. I for one am attempting to enjoy and take advantage of my freedom from religion by thinking, 'Okay, I know what's NOT true; what's left? What IS there?' In my humble opinion quite a lot, and I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and reject EVERYTHING, regardless of plenty of evidence to the contrary, and by so doing narrow my world down to a myopic place where there virtually nothing left. An Agnosticist rather is able to thus EXPAND his or her vision, not contract it.
(You wanted ONE paragraph, right? I swear this is the LAST time I talk about this! For now.)
Storm1752 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
The TECHNICAL definitions of the three "isms" do not tell the whole story.
The COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD definitions are much more meaningful, because clearer and simpler to understand. Clarity is everything when discussing this subject.
*Atheist--doesn't believe in a 'god;' that is, a separate, ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@Geoffrey51 I'll speak for myself: endless discussions about 'god' are beside the point. I think each constituent of the universe is connected to each other one. Matter and energy is the sum total. Many think it is conscious both as individual particles AND as a whole. A 'personal god' is not relevant to that discussion. It ignores all else happening at an incredibly high level, whether it be extraterrestials, reincarnation, parapsychological phenomena, quantum physics, futurism, 'spiritualism' in general. None of this requires an 'entity' called 'god,' but it does require freeing the mind of the 'bubble,' by refraining from the constant harping on, reacting against, complaining about, etc., the shortcomings and crimes of organized religion. Yes it deserves that and it should continue, but there is so much more to the entirety of the world than human beings trapped inside of the misconceptions and prejudices their extremely narrow world view. I for one am attempting to enjoy and take advantage of my freedom from religion by thinking, 'Okay, I know what's NOT true; what's left? What IS there?' In my humble opinion quite a lot, and I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and reject EVERYTHING, regardless of plenty of evidence to the contrary, and by so doing narrow my world down to a myopic place where there virtually nothing left. An Agnosticist rather is able to thus EXPAND his or her vision, not contract it.
(You wanted ONE paragraph, right? I swear this is the LAST time I talk about this! For now.)
I feel being raised heavily Christian made me afraid of intimacy. Anyone relate? : atheism
Storm1752 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
I know what you're saying, but I'd put it a little differently.
Brought up Catholic, my rational opinions clash daily with my indoctrination. It makes it hard to be honest and intimate with myself.
If I have these constant internal clashes, how can I present myself as an integrated human being to...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@Yogamom18 Thank you.
But having said it, I wonder if I really meant it!
Regardless, since you had a favorable opinion, I:be decided to 'follow' you on here, to see what else impresses you.
Is that 'okay?'
Storm1752 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
I know what you're saying, but I'd put it a little differently.
Brought up Catholic, my rational opinions clash daily with my indoctrination. It makes it hard to be honest and intimate with myself.
If I have these constant internal clashes, how can I present myself as an integrated human being to...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@Yogamom18 Thank you.
But having said it, I wonder if I really meant it!
Regardless, since you had a favorable opinion, I:be decided to 'follow' you on here, to see what else impresses you.
Is that 'okay?'
If you ever find yourself have to explain your entire belief system to someone that has no ...
Storm1752 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
The TECHNICAL definitions of the three "isms" do not tell the whole story.
The COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD definitions are much more meaningful, because clearer and simpler to understand. Clarity is everything when discussing this subject.
*Atheist--doesn't believe in a 'god;' that is, a separate, ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@DenoPenno Sorry, been there, done that.
I said what I said and that's what I think.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 11, 2020:
The TECHNICAL definitions of the three "isms" do not tell the whole story.
The COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD definitions are much more meaningful, because clearer and simpler to understand. Clarity is everything when discussing this subject.
*Atheist--doesn't believe in a 'god;' that is, a separate, ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 11, 2020:
@DenoPenno Sorry, been there, done that.
I said what I said and that's what I think.
WHY BERNIE WILL BE A GUARANTEED FAILURE?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
Good take.
Except for a few clunkers, like the "taxing the rich" part.
True, income inequality isn't as sexy as it should be, but still a huge and growing problem. I might vote for Bloomberg if he gets traction. Is he Jewish? Hope not! I'D still vote for him, but the yahoos might not.
Btw, when...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@rainmanjr I actually think he has a good shot l. I like all of them, but the dummies out there, who say Trump is rich so he must be smart, might not.
Two billionaires! Mano Mano! Trump would shrivel and wilt, IF he even agreed to debate at all. I doubt he will.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
Good take.
Except for a few clunkers, like the "taxing the rich" part.
True, income inequality isn't as sexy as it should be, but still a huge and growing problem. I might vote for Bloomberg if he gets traction. Is he Jewish? Hope not! I'D still vote for him, but the yahoos might not.
Btw, when...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@rainmanjr I actually think he has a good shot l. I like all of them, but the dummies out there, who say Trump is rich so he must be smart, might not.
Two billionaires! Mano Mano! Trump would shrivel and wilt, IF he even agreed to debate at all. I doubt he will.
A convoluted argument hard to grasp for agnostics, but if it were to succeed...?
[sojo.net]
Captain_Feelgood comments on Feb 9, 2020:
I disagree with the premise all together. If this were true, China wouldn't be produceing more than twice as much CO2 fossil fuel emissions as the US.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@Captain_Feelgood China WAS 60 years behind us. From what I gather they're catching up fast.
And they don't have a 'democracy' chock-full of corrupt, bought-and-paid-for politicians slowing down progress, so they'll probably be colonizing the nearest habitable planet before we make it to Mars.
Captain_Feelgood comments on Feb 9, 2020:
I disagree with the premise all together. If this were true, China wouldn't be produceing more than twice as much CO2 fossil fuel emissions as the US.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@Captain_Feelgood China WAS 60 years behind us. From what I gather they're catching up fast.
And they don't have a 'democracy' chock-full of corrupt, bought-and-paid-for politicians slowing down progress, so they'll probably be colonizing the nearest habitable planet before we make it to Mars.
A convoluted argument hard to grasp for agnostics, but if it were to succeed...?
[sojo.net]
Trajan61 comments on Feb 9, 2020:
I totally disagree. Christians are more concerned about the environment than you left wingers. How do you explain the fact that co2 emissions have decreased since Trump became president.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@Trajan61 I'm a liberal and I say the more nuke plants the better. Just get Space X to send all the nuclear waste to the moon.
Anyway, by the time storage becomes a serious problem they'll have figured out how to neutralize the radioactivity or, like I said, send it off-planet.
Can't go with fracking, sorry, despite the positives. Contaminates groundwater. I'm surprised retard Rand-ites don't know that.
Besides, electric cars and plant-based diets are 'in' this year...didn't know that either, huh?
So all those methane factories we call 'cows' will soon go the way of those coal-fired power plants you're so fond of.
What, you still live in the 20th Century or something?
How old are you, anyway?
Trajan61 comments on Feb 9, 2020:
I totally disagree. Christians are more concerned about the environment than you left wingers. How do you explain the fact that co2 emissions have decreased since Trump became president.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@Trajan61 I'm a liberal and I say the more nuke plants the better. Just get Space X to send all the nuclear waste to the moon.
Anyway, by the time storage becomes a serious problem they'll have figured out how to neutralize the radioactivity or, like I said, send it off-planet.
Can't go with fracking, sorry, despite the positives. Contaminates groundwater. I'm surprised retard Rand-ites don't know that.
Besides, electric cars and plant-based diets are 'in' this year...didn't know that either, huh?
So all those methane factories we call 'cows' will soon go the way of those coal-fired power plants you're so fond of.
What, you still live in the 20th Century or something?
How old are you, anyway?
America Isn’t Growing Hostile Towards Christians, It’s Growing Hostile Towards Religious ...
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
I for one certainly don't feel sorry for our poor beleaguered Christians. Most of US were probably ones ourselves, so we know of what we speak.
Their main problem seems to me, is they ARE in the process of losing their iron-clad grip on the hearts and minds of a significant number of people...good!...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@BirdMan1 Horror show, you mean.
After all, he comes with a sword, on a horse, flanked by his henchmen, to smite all nonbelieving 'sinners' and cast them into the fiery pit---where they shall remain FOREVER, amen.
Sounds pretty scary to ME!
Storm1752 comments on Feb 10, 2020:
I for one certainly don't feel sorry for our poor beleaguered Christians. Most of US were probably ones ourselves, so we know of what we speak.
Their main problem seems to me, is they ARE in the process of losing their iron-clad grip on the hearts and minds of a significant number of people...good!...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@BirdMan1 Horror show, you mean.
After all, he comes with a sword, on a horse, flanked by his henchmen, to smite all nonbelieving 'sinners' and cast them into the fiery pit---where they shall remain FOREVER, amen.
Sounds pretty scary to ME!
Men: Could you be raped by a woman?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 8, 2020:
I've been pressured to have sex, which I refused.
But that's hardly the same thing, right?
No, real, actual RAPE is not, in my opinion, possible! Not unless she tied you down and force-fed you an overdose of Viagra.
I truthfully find your question troll-like, and disrespectful of women who ARE ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@UpsideDownAgain To compare female machinations--of which I also disapprove, of course--to violent, brutal male-on-female (or male-on-male) RAPE is not only ridiculous, it's ignorant, callous, and borderline crazy.
I'm all for sexual liberation. The patriarchal system oppresses both men and women. In that sense we're ALL victims.
But THIS is the exact opposite. In a sense, rape is that system run amok.Not that all patriarchal men think it's okay to treat women as 'fair game,' objects worthy of such treatment, but to a lesser degree they DO view them as lesser human beings to be controlled, manipulated, and subjugated.
Rapists of course are not concerned with such sociological distinctions; gender and sexuality hardly matter at all.
But in a larger context, men are taught to aggressively control their surroundings--especially women but also other aspects of their lives--and if they cannot do so within the 'rules,' they ignore them and resort to criminal behavior. This is not to say women are angels; they too are capable of manipulation and have been known to abuse men in certain ways.
That's a much larger discussion.
Let's just not pretend there's some kind of tit-for-tat going on here!
Suffice to say criminal sexual predation is any form victimizes everybody.
Rape is just the most extreme manifestation of a Judeo-Christian-Islamic ethic so primitive, medieval, and animalistic it hardly qualifies as human, never mind 'enlightened.'
But I ramble.
No, men cannot be, in any meaningful way--very rare exceptions aside--raped.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 8, 2020:
I've been pressured to have sex, which I refused.
But that's hardly the same thing, right?
No, real, actual RAPE is not, in my opinion, possible! Not unless she tied you down and force-fed you an overdose of Viagra.
I truthfully find your question troll-like, and disrespectful of women who ARE ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@UpsideDownAgain To compare female machinations--of which I also disapprove, of course--to violent, brutal male-on-female (or male-on-male) RAPE is not only ridiculous, it's ignorant, callous, and borderline crazy.
I'm all for sexual liberation. The patriarchal system oppresses both men and women. In that sense we're ALL victims.
But THIS is the exact opposite. In a sense, rape is that system run amok.Not that all patriarchal men think it's okay to treat women as 'fair game,' objects worthy of such treatment, but to a lesser degree they DO view them as lesser human beings to be controlled, manipulated, and subjugated.
Rapists of course are not concerned with such sociological distinctions; gender and sexuality hardly matter at all.
But in a larger context, men are taught to aggressively control their surroundings--especially women but also other aspects of their lives--and if they cannot do so within the 'rules,' they ignore them and resort to criminal behavior. This is not to say women are angels; they too are capable of manipulation and have been known to abuse men in certain ways.
That's a much larger discussion.
Let's just not pretend there's some kind of tit-for-tat going on here!
Suffice to say criminal sexual predation is any form victimizes everybody.
Rape is just the most extreme manifestation of a Judeo-Christian-Islamic ethic so primitive, medieval, and animalistic it hardly qualifies as human, never mind 'enlightened.'
But I ramble.
No, men cannot be, in any meaningful way--very rare exceptions aside--raped.
America Isn’t Growing Hostile Towards Christians, It’s Growing Hostile Towards Religious ...
DenoPenno comments on Feb 9, 2020:
Religious bullies includes the current Evangelicals that support Trump for ignorant and strange reasons. Lots of these people are televangelists.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@thethinker I strongly disagree he is "helping" our country. If he'd tackle systemic problems like income inequality, our runaway deficits, our grossly unfair tax laws, etc., I MIGHT overlook his glaring flaws.
But he, like other Republicans, refuse to face reality in every sphere: religious, economic, military, and environmental, to name a few.
If YOU want to live in a fascist plutocracy, keep thinking he's not an elitist Ayn Rand- style Objectivist.
If YOU think dog-eat-dog libertarianism, laissez-faire capitalism, with no rules and regulations holding back outright greed and avarice, is a good idea, he and men and women like him are your cup of tea.
Otherwise get real and wake up.
DenoPenno comments on Feb 9, 2020:
Religious bullies includes the current Evangelicals that support Trump for ignorant and strange reasons. Lots of these people are televangelists.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 10, 2020:
@thethinker I strongly disagree he is "helping" our country. If he'd tackle systemic problems like income inequality, our runaway deficits, our grossly unfair tax laws, etc., I MIGHT overlook his glaring flaws.
But he, like other Republicans, refuse to face reality in every sphere: religious, economic, military, and environmental, to name a few.
If YOU want to live in a fascist plutocracy, keep thinking he's not an elitist Ayn Rand- style Objectivist.
If YOU think dog-eat-dog libertarianism, laissez-faire capitalism, with no rules and regulations holding back outright greed and avarice, is a good idea, he and men and women like him are your cup of tea.
Otherwise get real and wake up.
Belief is back: why the world is putting its faith in religion
FynTul comments on Feb 9, 2020:
Probably think they will find wives/husbands within organized religion. I've thought the same thing at times. Is it worth a little make-believe to find someone you click with? Maybe, until the true believers blacklist ya.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 9, 2020:
That makes zero sense.
FynTul comments on Feb 9, 2020:
Probably think they will find wives/husbands within organized religion. I've thought the same thing at times. Is it worth a little make-believe to find someone you click with? Maybe, until the true believers blacklist ya.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 9, 2020:
That makes zero sense.
What if the money that is spent on religion throughout the world was instead spent on science?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 8, 2020:
Think of all the trillions we could free up with a World Government, maybe a confederation initially, then a federation!
To make that happen, though, we'd first have to replace faith-based religion with science-based spirituality.
The potential leap forward would be beyond transformational! Almost...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
@DavidLaDeau I didn't say "religion;" I said "spirituality."
Religion is a belief system worshipping personal deities.
Spirituality is a sense of a connection to something bigger than ourselves, whatever you conceive that to be.
You might reject both. Fine.
But the former is much more dangerous and destructive than the former, at the very least.
At best, "spirituality" can be a way to see the universe as one single, closed system consisting of matter and energy, of which we are a small but significant part.
Maybe there's a better word for it, but a SCIENCE-BASED perspective is superior to faith-based, in any case.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 8, 2020:
Think of all the trillions we could free up with a World Government, maybe a confederation initially, then a federation!
To make that happen, though, we'd first have to replace faith-based religion with science-based spirituality.
The potential leap forward would be beyond transformational! Almost...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
@DavidLaDeau I didn't say "religion;" I said "spirituality."
Religion is a belief system worshipping personal deities.
Spirituality is a sense of a connection to something bigger than ourselves, whatever you conceive that to be.
You might reject both. Fine.
But the former is much more dangerous and destructive than the former, at the very least.
At best, "spirituality" can be a way to see the universe as one single, closed system consisting of matter and energy, of which we are a small but significant part.
Maybe there's a better word for it, but a SCIENCE-BASED perspective is superior to faith-based, in any case.
Men: Could you be raped by a woman?
Paracosm comments on Jan 18, 2020:
Did you only want answers from men?
There are a number of ways that men can be raped by women, including involuntary arousal and toys, etc.
Some specific cases that I'm aware of that involved a man being raped by a woman or women:
1) The victim was dosed with viagra.
2) The victim had ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
WHAT?!?
Paracosm comments on Jan 18, 2020:
Did you only want answers from men?
There are a number of ways that men can be raped by women, including involuntary arousal and toys, etc.
Some specific cases that I'm aware of that involved a man being raped by a woman or women:
1) The victim was dosed with viagra.
2) The victim had ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
WHAT?!?
Men: Could you be raped by a woman?
Quarm comments on Jan 18, 2020:
I would think that apart from foreign object rape or man on man it is rare. Having said that as a heterosexual man I could see a situation were a woman could restrain a man and arouse him against his will. Rape is about power and sex is basically the result of that particular brand of hostile use ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
I disagree mens' sex drive has "little to do with emotion or even pleasure..."
Huh?
That has got be be one of the most inaccurate, just plain ignorant statements I've ever heard, and plays into an equally wrong but stubborn stereotype men will never escape!
Sex is inextricably linked in the human mind to both emotion AND pleasure.
Sure, on the level of the reptilian brain, procreation is the only game in town.
But we are mammals, and human, not lizards.
As a man matures, emotional substenance becomes more and more important, procreation less and less so.
And pleasure? You've got to be kidding me!
Surely I'm misunderstanding you.
Rape, as many have accurately pointed out, is not about procreation, pleasure, or emotional warmth, but about control. Dominance. Comes from a very sick, dark place in a diseased mind.
Please excuse me but I get upset easily when ordinary, well-meaning men are confused with criminal sexual deviants. Not saying you are intentionally equating the two, but I felt it necessary to stress and amplify the difference!
Quarm comments on Jan 18, 2020:
I would think that apart from foreign object rape or man on man it is rare. Having said that as a heterosexual man I could see a situation were a woman could restrain a man and arouse him against his will. Rape is about power and sex is basically the result of that particular brand of hostile use ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
I disagree mens' sex drive has "little to do with emotion or even pleasure..."
Huh?
That has got be be one of the most inaccurate, just plain ignorant statements I've ever heard, and plays into an equally wrong but stubborn stereotype men will never escape!
Sex is inextricably linked in the human mind to both emotion AND pleasure.
Sure, on the level of the reptilian brain, procreation is the only game in town.
But we are mammals, and human, not lizards.
As a man matures, emotional substenance becomes more and more important, procreation less and less so.
And pleasure? You've got to be kidding me!
Surely I'm misunderstanding you.
Rape, as many have accurately pointed out, is not about procreation, pleasure, or emotional warmth, but about control. Dominance. Comes from a very sick, dark place in a diseased mind.
Please excuse me but I get upset easily when ordinary, well-meaning men are confused with criminal sexual deviants. Not saying you are intentionally equating the two, but I felt it necessary to stress and amplify the difference!
Hey ladies!
t1nick comments on Feb 6, 2020:
Are we trending towards too young pics recently? Hard to tell how old/ young they are?
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
@t1nick Maybe you should check your eyeglasses prescription.
t1nick comments on Feb 6, 2020:
Are we trending towards too young pics recently? Hard to tell how old/ young they are?
Storm1752 replies on Feb 8, 2020:
@t1nick Maybe you should check your eyeglasses prescription.
Wondering if anyone else accepts the Absurd (pursuing meaning in a meaningless world)?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 4, 2020:
I don't think it IS a "meaningless world."
It may be. It certainly seems that way at times.
But I prefer 'natural law' and 'karma'-based justice.
This prompts one to act morally even if (some) others act immorally, as if there are no consequences.
I think we reap as we sow, are rewarded and ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 6, 2020:
@maturin1919 Birds 'steal' nests? Chimpanzees 'war' with one another? What about lions 'murdering' gazelles?
As far as 'heat death' is concerned, there IS a theory at some 'tipping point,' gravity takes back over and the universe snaps back to a concentrated mass which explodes again, the process repeating itself an infinite number of times.
Another theory has it there are an infinite number of universes and dimensions; if true, there are no boundaries and there was no beginning and will be no end to it all
So what?
You're implying if there's a goal, it too is meaningless because it itself, once realized, will come to nothing in the end.
Well, that'd depend on the goal, wouldn't it?
What do I think the goal might be? I don't know, interdimensional or trans-universal travel maybe, putting us in contact with other ultra-sophisticated life forms, leading perhaps to immortality? In the meantime we just keep coming back over and over, like Groundhog Day, until we get it right? How's that for something right off the top of my head?
Lots of things occur to me.
You may say, 'Well, you're just making stuff up to give meaning in your own head to meaninglessness.'
Maybe, but if that IS what I'm doing it sure beats sitting around dwelling on inevitable oblivion. And it might just be true.
After all, YOUR idea of 'truth' is just one of a countless number of possibilities...why pick the most depressing one to fixate on? What fun is that?
To me, it's not even the most likely one. Evolution is an ongoing thing and thoughts also evolve. I won't let MY thoughts get stuck in, say, the Inquisition days, or in the long lost dreams of the Third Reich, or even today's depressing headlines.
History is written by the military, and war is fascinating.
Good things are boring, so you never hear of them. A World Government would be boring. So would be a world without conflict of any kind.
Wouldn't it be 'meaningful' to find out what such a world would be like?
Or am I being absurd?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 4, 2020:
I don't think it IS a "meaningless world."
It may be. It certainly seems that way at times.
But I prefer 'natural law' and 'karma'-based justice.
This prompts one to act morally even if (some) others act immorally, as if there are no consequences.
I think we reap as we sow, are rewarded and ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 6, 2020:
@maturin1919 Birds 'steal' nests? Chimpanzees 'war' with one another? What about lions 'murdering' gazelles?
As far as 'heat death' is concerned, there IS a theory at some 'tipping point,' gravity takes back over and the universe snaps back to a concentrated mass which explodes again, the process repeating itself an infinite number of times.
Another theory has it there are an infinite number of universes and dimensions; if true, there are no boundaries and there was no beginning and will be no end to it all
So what?
You're implying if there's a goal, it too is meaningless because it itself, once realized, will come to nothing in the end.
Well, that'd depend on the goal, wouldn't it?
What do I think the goal might be? I don't know, interdimensional or trans-universal travel maybe, putting us in contact with other ultra-sophisticated life forms, leading perhaps to immortality? In the meantime we just keep coming back over and over, like Groundhog Day, until we get it right? How's that for something right off the top of my head?
Lots of things occur to me.
You may say, 'Well, you're just making stuff up to give meaning in your own head to meaninglessness.'
Maybe, but if that IS what I'm doing it sure beats sitting around dwelling on inevitable oblivion. And it might just be true.
After all, YOUR idea of 'truth' is just one of a countless number of possibilities...why pick the most depressing one to fixate on? What fun is that?
To me, it's not even the most likely one. Evolution is an ongoing thing and thoughts also evolve. I won't let MY thoughts get stuck in, say, the Inquisition days, or in the long lost dreams of the Third Reich, or even today's depressing headlines.
History is written by the military, and war is fascinating.
Good things are boring, so you never hear of them. A World Government would be boring. So would be a world without conflict of any kind.
Wouldn't it be 'meaningful' to find out what such a world would be like?
Or am I being absurd?
Wondering if anyone else accepts the Absurd (pursuing meaning in a meaningless world)?
Storm1752 comments on Feb 4, 2020:
I don't think it IS a "meaningless world."
It may be. It certainly seems that way at times.
But I prefer 'natural law' and 'karma'-based justice.
This prompts one to act morally even if (some) others act immorally, as if there are no consequences.
I think we reap as we sow, are rewarded and ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 5, 2020:
@maturin1919 Yes, that the attempt to find meaning in a meaningless world is absurd.
I agree if it IS a meaningless world, it WOULD be absurd to think of finding meaning in one's own life, or in anything at all.
It COULD BE very liberating to feel free of having to find that meaning. On the other hand, it'd be--to me anyway--not only absurd but also nonsensical.
I personally don't look for meaning. I just feel there IS meaning.
I don't think a 'god' bestows it, but an afterlife and personal 'spiritual' growth would certainly have to be a part of it.
Part of it also is a feeling there is natural law, and ultimate justice.
Animals don't do bad things, commit criminal acts; there's no court for kangaroos where they are judged and punished. It's only men who do these things, and for them only 'justice' is necessary, and meted out.
I can't prove it, and I may be wrong.
So, without a sense there is a spiritual side to us, life WOULDN'T have any meaning. We're born, we live, we die. What possible meaning could there possibly be?
I'm not saying there IS meaning, just a world without it in ITSELF seems absurd, makes no sense, and I simply don't think that's the case.
That and about $1.79 will get you a cup of coffee.
Storm1752 comments on Feb 4, 2020:
I don't think it IS a "meaningless world."
It may be. It certainly seems that way at times.
But I prefer 'natural law' and 'karma'-based justice.
This prompts one to act morally even if (some) others act immorally, as if there are no consequences.
I think we reap as we sow, are rewarded and ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 5, 2020:
@maturin1919 Yes, that the attempt to find meaning in a meaningless world is absurd.
I agree if it IS a meaningless world, it WOULD be absurd to think of finding meaning in one's own life, or in anything at all.
It COULD BE very liberating to feel free of having to find that meaning. On the other hand, it'd be--to me anyway--not only absurd but also nonsensical.
I personally don't look for meaning. I just feel there IS meaning.
I don't think a 'god' bestows it, but an afterlife and personal 'spiritual' growth would certainly have to be a part of it.
Part of it also is a feeling there is natural law, and ultimate justice.
Animals don't do bad things, commit criminal acts; there's no court for kangaroos where they are judged and punished. It's only men who do these things, and for them only 'justice' is necessary, and meted out.
I can't prove it, and I may be wrong.
So, without a sense there is a spiritual side to us, life WOULDN'T have any meaning. We're born, we live, we die. What possible meaning could there possibly be?
I'm not saying there IS meaning, just a world without it in ITSELF seems absurd, makes no sense, and I simply don't think that's the case.
That and about $1.79 will get you a cup of coffee.
Study of European Countries where young people are not religious.
BBJong comments on Feb 4, 2020:
I see it occurring here; the catholic church is consolidating
(and has for years) reasources & REALESTATE.
The ethnic churches are holding thier own or expanding.
I see integration and community support as the reason,
although there is peer and cultural pressure. As politicians
like ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 5, 2020:
impediments
BBJong comments on Feb 4, 2020:
I see it occurring here; the catholic church is consolidating
(and has for years) reasources & REALESTATE.
The ethnic churches are holding thier own or expanding.
I see integration and community support as the reason,
although there is peer and cultural pressure. As politicians
like ...
Storm1752 replies on Feb 5, 2020:
impediments
In this world we are hearing of the evil of terrorism.
MichaelSpinler comments on Feb 3, 2020:
identity politics and religious ideas fuel this mostly.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 3, 2020:
@TomMcGiverin Oh?
And the Pubs don't practice "identity politics?"
Give me a break.
MichaelSpinler comments on Feb 3, 2020:
identity politics and religious ideas fuel this mostly.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 3, 2020:
@TomMcGiverin Oh?
And the Pubs don't practice "identity politics?"
Give me a break.
In this world we are hearing of the evil of terrorism.
DavidLaDeau comments on Feb 3, 2020:
The key is that tribalism is not nationalism or religion etc. Football for example does not call on people to murder each other.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 3, 2020:
I had $100 on the 49ers.
I'm bummed, but I don't feel like murdering anybody.
DavidLaDeau comments on Feb 3, 2020:
The key is that tribalism is not nationalism or religion etc. Football for example does not call on people to murder each other.
Storm1752 replies on Feb 3, 2020:
I had $100 on the 49ers.
I'm bummed, but I don't feel like murdering anybody.
Could I be considered an atheist or a deist?
MsDemeanour comments on Feb 2, 2020:
Can I politely ask why you believe in something supernatural for which you admit there is no evidence for?
Storm1752 replies on Feb 2, 2020:
He didn't SAY he believes IN anything, merely he is interested in the concept.
MsDemeanour comments on Feb 2, 2020:
Can I politely ask why you believe in something supernatural for which you admit there is no evidence for?
Storm1752 replies on Feb 2, 2020:
He didn't SAY he believes IN anything, merely he is interested in the concept.
I grew up in the Bible Belt in a non-religious home.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 28, 2020:
@joeymf86 I double-checked and you're right and I apologize. I DID go off on a tangent.
I hope my main point was conveyed, despite my ramblings.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 28, 2020:
@joeymf86 I double-checked and you're right and I apologize. I DID go off on a tangent.
I hope my main point was conveyed, despite my ramblings.
What is real intimacy?
Storm1752 comments on Jan 27, 2020:
You mean IF you consider a man a weak person, right?
If that's true, your scenario makes perfect sense.
Such a man SHOULD seek out a stern, dominating woman.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 28, 2020:
@evhemere I agree to a large degree.
The reasons are complex; one that comes immediately to mind is the great brainwashing tool of the Masters of our capitalist system: mass media, particularly television, but all of it.
To me, it is as infantile as the people being programmed to BE infantile 'sheep,' and accept it as reality.
Just one aspect, but in my opinion a significant one.
It's like the movie, the Matrix, except the 'matrix' is not some A.I. monstrosity, but the super rich and their servants at the top of the hierarchy.
Just a thought.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 27, 2020:
You mean IF you consider a man a weak person, right?
If that's true, your scenario makes perfect sense.
Such a man SHOULD seek out a stern, dominating woman.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 28, 2020:
@evhemere I agree to a large degree.
The reasons are complex; one that comes immediately to mind is the great brainwashing tool of the Masters of our capitalist system: mass media, particularly television, but all of it.
To me, it is as infantile as the people being programmed to BE infantile 'sheep,' and accept it as reality.
Just one aspect, but in my opinion a significant one.
It's like the movie, the Matrix, except the 'matrix' is not some A.I. monstrosity, but the super rich and their servants at the top of the hierarchy.
Just a thought.
Not sure how this works but there seems to be a demeaning air toward all religious leaders here, ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jan 27, 2020:
Yes, there are many on this site who heap scorn, not only on religious leaders but on all religious people, demonizing and labeling them with various dehumanizing names. There are a few on here who react vociferously to any metaphysical idea that is at odds with their simplistic physicalist world ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
I agree with Hillary's POLITICS, so I voted for her.
I find it extremely hard to believe she is an "Evangelical," anyway! She's a pro-choice Evangelical? Really?
I doubt it.
I wouldn't vote for Mike Pence if you paid me (well, depends on how much, but you get the idea).
I have some agnostic "metaphysical" ideas, but they are hardly "religious." Are you confusing the meanings of the two words?
WilliamFleming comments on Jan 27, 2020:
Yes, there are many on this site who heap scorn, not only on religious leaders but on all religious people, demonizing and labeling them with various dehumanizing names. There are a few on here who react vociferously to any metaphysical idea that is at odds with their simplistic physicalist world ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
I agree with Hillary's POLITICS, so I voted for her.
I find it extremely hard to believe she is an "Evangelical," anyway! She's a pro-choice Evangelical? Really?
I doubt it.
I wouldn't vote for Mike Pence if you paid me (well, depends on how much, but you get the idea).
I have some agnostic "metaphysical" ideas, but they are hardly "religious." Are you confusing the meanings of the two words?
Not sure how this works but there seems to be a demeaning air toward all religious leaders here, ...
bobwjr comments on Jan 27, 2020:
Not all just the right wing conservative groups out for money and power
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@DavidRooney IF Jesus even existed, which is highly debatable.
bobwjr comments on Jan 27, 2020:
Not all just the right wing conservative groups out for money and power
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@DavidRooney IF Jesus even existed, which is highly debatable.
Not sure how this works but there seems to be a demeaning air toward all religious leaders here, ...
wordywalt comments on Jan 27, 2020:
I would agree that many on this site act in such a manner. To their detriment, they overlook the fact that some religious leaders have profound thoughts and acts in relation to other sectors of life to their credit that benefit us all.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
Good point.
wordywalt comments on Jan 27, 2020:
I would agree that many on this site act in such a manner. To their detriment, they overlook the fact that some religious leaders have profound thoughts and acts in relation to other sectors of life to their credit that benefit us all.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
Good point.
Not sure how this works but there seems to be a demeaning air toward all religious leaders here, ...
powder comments on Jan 27, 2020:
In olden days, MLK would have been classed as a prophet. I respect prophets..........it's just that I think most of their followers are wankers :D
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
Why do you "respect prophets?"
Most (maybe not ALL) are total phonies.
powder comments on Jan 27, 2020:
In olden days, MLK would have been classed as a prophet. I respect prophets..........it's just that I think most of their followers are wankers :D
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
Why do you "respect prophets?"
Most (maybe not ALL) are total phonies.
I grew up in the Bible Belt in a non-religious home.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@joeymf86 I was responding to JeffMesser and his comments about Buddhist philosophy via the Dalai Lama.
Btw--I don't 'eat meat' 99.9% of the time, and it's VERY rare I'd be in that situation. I was simply using that as an example of what I do when presented with a tricky wicket like the one froggie posted. Not for everyone, and maybe not totally apropos. Just a comment.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@joeymf86 I was responding to JeffMesser and his comments about Buddhist philosophy via the Dalai Lama.
Btw--I don't 'eat meat' 99.9% of the time, and it's VERY rare I'd be in that situation. I was simply using that as an example of what I do when presented with a tricky wicket like the one froggie posted. Not for everyone, and maybe not totally apropos. Just a comment.
I grew up in the Bible Belt in a non-religious home.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@JeffMesser I'm copying that down.
The Desiderata includes the words, "...speak your truth clearly and quietly, and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant...they too have their story." Very different--and arrogant to think THEY are dull and ignorant, not us...everything is relative--but along the same general lines.
I agree order and harmony opens up lines of communication, while conversely discord blocks communication and separates people along ideological or other lines.
If one's goal is to elevate himself or herself ABOVE others, discord will often be the result.
If one's goal is to find and establish a mood of commonality, order will follow.
THEN minds can be changed, attitudes adjusted.
Be careful, though; yours may be the mind thus changed, and it may be YOUR attitude adjusted.
As an agnostic, in fact, I'm always open to that possible eventuality.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@JeffMesser I'm copying that down.
The Desiderata includes the words, "...speak your truth clearly and quietly, and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant...they too have their story." Very different--and arrogant to think THEY are dull and ignorant, not us...everything is relative--but along the same general lines.
I agree order and harmony opens up lines of communication, while conversely discord blocks communication and separates people along ideological or other lines.
If one's goal is to elevate himself or herself ABOVE others, discord will often be the result.
If one's goal is to find and establish a mood of commonality, order will follow.
THEN minds can be changed, attitudes adjusted.
Be careful, though; yours may be the mind thus changed, and it may be YOUR attitude adjusted.
As an agnostic, in fact, I'm always open to that possible eventuality.
Talk about ridiculous...lol.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 24, 2020:
Omg is that for REAL?
UNBELIEVABLE.
Pornographic ignorance.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@MissKathleen Forgive me; the urge to rant is sometimes, like sexual expression, sometimes difficult to resist.
NOT for real?
How disappointing.
I stand by my rant, with the only adjunct it might as well be.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 24, 2020:
Omg is that for REAL?
UNBELIEVABLE.
Pornographic ignorance.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@MissKathleen Forgive me; the urge to rant is sometimes, like sexual expression, sometimes difficult to resist.
NOT for real?
How disappointing.
I stand by my rant, with the only adjunct it might as well be.
I grew up in the Bible Belt in a non-religious home.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@joeymf86 Not my point, but might I add even chimpanzees organize into hunting parties--rarely to be sure--to capture and consume small game.
That said, I fail to see how one's vegetarian status confers on one higher moral standing, or amounts to a superior dietary regimen, or in any way is "better" than any other lifestyle choice, EXCEPT TO the individual whose choice it is.
That, to me, also applies to one's opinions of anything else, including the existence or NON-existence of 'god.'
Storm1752 comments on Jan 26, 2020:
No I just go with it.
I think Paul--of whom I'm not otherwise a big fan--said somewhere to do that.
For instance, I'm a vegetarian, but if I'm invited to dine at someone's a house and they offer up hamburgers, I do not say, 'No thanks, I'm a vegetarian."
I eat it.
Same, for me, with religion. I...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 27, 2020:
@joeymf86 Not my point, but might I add even chimpanzees organize into hunting parties--rarely to be sure--to capture and consume small game.
That said, I fail to see how one's vegetarian status confers on one higher moral standing, or amounts to a superior dietary regimen, or in any way is "better" than any other lifestyle choice, EXCEPT TO the individual whose choice it is.
That, to me, also applies to one's opinions of anything else, including the existence or NON-existence of 'god.'
Virgin birth...
nicknotes comments on Jan 26, 2020:
Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
In Galatians Paul is doing his best to give Jesus "a buildup."
Had Paul known that Jesus was born of a virgin, Paul would have certainly used that to give Jesus a proper "build ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 26, 2020:
Yawn.
Since there WAS, in all likelihood, no Mary and no Jesus to begin with, it's it's all beside-the-point irrelevant anyway, is it not?
nicknotes comments on Jan 26, 2020:
Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
In Galatians Paul is doing his best to give Jesus "a buildup."
Had Paul known that Jesus was born of a virgin, Paul would have certainly used that to give Jesus a proper "build ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 26, 2020:
Yawn.
Since there WAS, in all likelihood, no Mary and no Jesus to begin with, it's it's all beside-the-point irrelevant anyway, is it not?
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
BitFlipper comments on Jan 25, 2020:
Mother Nature
Storm1752 replies on Jan 26, 2020:
Gaia.
BitFlipper comments on Jan 25, 2020:
Mother Nature
Storm1752 replies on Jan 26, 2020:
Gaia.
Talk about ridiculous...lol.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 24, 2020:
Omg is that for REAL?
UNBELIEVABLE.
Pornographic ignorance.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 26, 2020:
@MissKathleen No?
I meant, I'm always struck by how OBSESSED Evangelicals are about sex, and how their railing against anything about it they consider deviant (almost everything) approaches pornographic levels. Especially men, who are often discovered to be extremely deviant themselves, perhaps because 'normal' outlets for sexual expression are denied them.
Indeed, why do they care what other people do with their bodies? Why is it any of their business? Are they jealous they are so repressed they cannot fulfill themselves, so would deny it to others?
Is the fact masturbating, in some ways, amounts to an admission of sexual desire and/or unfullfillment, that some men and (gasp!) women want to fill the void with self-pleasure, (or simply enjoy it for it's own sake) the reason they take it upon themselves to try to discourage it?
And by doing so are they actually admitting such activity takes place? Obviously they are masturbating for a REASON! And bringing it up in the first place DOES conjure up all kinds of images of young beautiful women doing so!
Oh my!
Anyway, I DO think there is a pornographic aspect to it.
The "ignorance" is of course a different subject. In short, the creators of this rather disgusting piece do not seem to know masturbation is a normal, healthy activity.
And because their churches preach to them that it, like many things about human nature, is 'sinful' and must be resisted, repression of their basic instincts becomes a way of life.
Many Agnostics and atheists are brought up that way, and many never overcome all of this negative conditioning, it seems to me.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 24, 2020:
Omg is that for REAL?
UNBELIEVABLE.
Pornographic ignorance.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 26, 2020:
@MissKathleen No?
I meant, I'm always struck by how OBSESSED Evangelicals are about sex, and how their railing against anything about it they consider deviant (almost everything) approaches pornographic levels. Especially men, who are often discovered to be extremely deviant themselves, perhaps because 'normal' outlets for sexual expression are denied them.
Indeed, why do they care what other people do with their bodies? Why is it any of their business? Are they jealous they are so repressed they cannot fulfill themselves, so would deny it to others?
Is the fact masturbating, in some ways, amounts to an admission of sexual desire and/or unfullfillment, that some men and (gasp!) women want to fill the void with self-pleasure, (or simply enjoy it for it's own sake) the reason they take it upon themselves to try to discourage it?
And by doing so are they actually admitting such activity takes place? Obviously they are masturbating for a REASON! And bringing it up in the first place DOES conjure up all kinds of images of young beautiful women doing so!
Oh my!
Anyway, I DO think there is a pornographic aspect to it.
The "ignorance" is of course a different subject. In short, the creators of this rather disgusting piece do not seem to know masturbation is a normal, healthy activity.
And because their churches preach to them that it, like many things about human nature, is 'sinful' and must be resisted, repression of their basic instincts becomes a way of life.
Many Agnostics and atheists are brought up that way, and many never overcome all of this negative conditioning, it seems to me.
"It just makes sense that god exist"`is an argument that annoys me to no end.
brentan comments on Jan 25, 2020:
I'm happy enough that the patriarchal idea of God doesn't make sense but I wonder about an entity we can't understand, at least so far. I'm thinking of something like universal consciousness.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 25, 2020:
I agree.
brentan comments on Jan 25, 2020:
I'm happy enough that the patriarchal idea of God doesn't make sense but I wonder about an entity we can't understand, at least so far. I'm thinking of something like universal consciousness.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 25, 2020:
I agree.
Thoughts on extraterrestrial life?
MichaelSpinler comments on Jan 23, 2020:
well. as long as supernatural is not invoked, i have no issue with the possibilities. ancient aleins on history. is a woo based nonsense show. based on a book by a liar.
as far as life on other worlds i take a jody foster view. it would be a waste of space if there were not.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 25, 2020:
I think the Ancient Aliens program is some percentage nonsense with a lot of interesting information sprinkled liberally throughout.
MichaelSpinler comments on Jan 23, 2020:
well. as long as supernatural is not invoked, i have no issue with the possibilities. ancient aleins on history. is a woo based nonsense show. based on a book by a liar.
as far as life on other worlds i take a jody foster view. it would be a waste of space if there were not.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 25, 2020:
I think the Ancient Aliens program is some percentage nonsense with a lot of interesting information sprinkled liberally throughout.
Thoughts on extraterrestrial life?
blzjz comments on Jan 23, 2020:
this whole thread gingerly skirts around issues that strike me as quasi-conspiracy based ... although not explicitly named.....
a quote from S.C.Collins has a great ending which pulls pretty heavily on my 'shirt sleeve' ....
"Once you are forced to hypothesize whole new technologies to keep ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 25, 2020:
S.C. Collins sounds like a real stick-in-the-mud, addicted to non-belief in ANYTHING for it's own sake.
I feel sorry for both of you.
blzjz comments on Jan 23, 2020:
this whole thread gingerly skirts around issues that strike me as quasi-conspiracy based ... although not explicitly named.....
a quote from S.C.Collins has a great ending which pulls pretty heavily on my 'shirt sleeve' ....
"Once you are forced to hypothesize whole new technologies to keep ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 25, 2020:
S.C. Collins sounds like a real stick-in-the-mud, addicted to non-belief in ANYTHING for it's own sake.
I feel sorry for both of you.
Thoughts on extraterrestrial life?
bmchizzle comments on Jan 24, 2020:
I'll be honest and say I am a healthy skeptic but OPEN to the possibility. Statistically speaking it is hard for me to imagine that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. However, I am skeptical about any level of contact we have or have not had.
One of my favorite quotes about it ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 24, 2020:
Great quote.
I'm in group number 1.5.
I DO think most things are pure coincidence, that the chances of any one particular thing happening is purely part of a random chain of events.
BUT in terms of a reward-punishment system not instituted by some 'god,' but as part of an overall interconnectedness of all matter and energy--'karma' if you will--I'm prone to think there may be something to it
Why?
Because it just SEEMS like it would be that way. With scientific underpinnings based on natural law.
So coincidence for most things, but either a positive or negative outcome for some things based on primal justice.
(Oh, and no doubt in my mind about the existence and presence of some kinds of extraterrestials conveyences.)
bmchizzle comments on Jan 24, 2020:
I'll be honest and say I am a healthy skeptic but OPEN to the possibility. Statistically speaking it is hard for me to imagine that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. However, I am skeptical about any level of contact we have or have not had.
One of my favorite quotes about it ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 24, 2020:
Great quote.
I'm in group number 1.5.
I DO think most things are pure coincidence, that the chances of any one particular thing happening is purely part of a random chain of events.
BUT in terms of a reward-punishment system not instituted by some 'god,' but as part of an overall interconnectedness of all matter and energy--'karma' if you will--I'm prone to think there may be something to it
Why?
Because it just SEEMS like it would be that way. With scientific underpinnings based on natural law.
So coincidence for most things, but either a positive or negative outcome for some things based on primal justice.
(Oh, and no doubt in my mind about the existence and presence of some kinds of extraterrestials conveyences.)
How do people feel about pulling good guy (or good person) deeds as an atheist?
Storm1752 comments on Jan 17, 2020:
Pulling good guy deeds?
(I'll answer that 'cause the rest of your posts is about something else. I don't see the connection.)
Anyway, my impulse to do "good deeds" used to be a lot stronger, frankly. Now it's leavened by being taken advantage a few times too often.
Not by doing the good deed, ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 18, 2020:
@AnneWimsey Yeah that's possible.
The other one I hear is that they are practically professionals and have cars and apartments, etc., have regular hours, techniques, "really have it down to a science " (!)
I doubt it. Maybe a few, but not most.
Mental illness, bad luck, some kind of disaster, physical problems...who knows?
I'm not particularly kind; I just find if I DON'T do certain things, it bothers me...I feel guilty. Better to do it and kick myself for being a soft touch.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 17, 2020:
Pulling good guy deeds?
(I'll answer that 'cause the rest of your posts is about something else. I don't see the connection.)
Anyway, my impulse to do "good deeds" used to be a lot stronger, frankly. Now it's leavened by being taken advantage a few times too often.
Not by doing the good deed, ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 18, 2020:
@AnneWimsey Yeah that's possible.
The other one I hear is that they are practically professionals and have cars and apartments, etc., have regular hours, techniques, "really have it down to a science " (!)
I doubt it. Maybe a few, but not most.
Mental illness, bad luck, some kind of disaster, physical problems...who knows?
I'm not particularly kind; I just find if I DON'T do certain things, it bothers me...I feel guilty. Better to do it and kick myself for being a soft touch.
Major evangelical nonprofits are trying a new strategy with the IRS - The Washington Post
Word comments on Jan 17, 2020:
United States of America and its tax code is of European invadors and the secret religion of the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers.
Why should any one be forced or required to worship the devil and the beast-666 by paying taxes?
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@Paul4747 Hi troll
Btw---there is no 'Satan.'
Word comments on Jan 17, 2020:
United States of America and its tax code is of European invadors and the secret religion of the Masonic lodge secret religion racist devil worshippers.
Why should any one be forced or required to worship the devil and the beast-666 by paying taxes?
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@Paul4747 Hi troll
Btw---there is no 'Satan.'
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
I fine. I enjoy putting you in your place
You make me feel like a genius! You are so enraptured by your counterfeit, bankrupt ideology you just can't see you're blinded by it.
You have such a high regard for human beings you think for the right thing if only the evil guv'mint would get out of the way...ha! That's genuinely funny.
But I AM done with you because it's like beating up a cripple on the street, or making fun of a retarded person
Hahaha.
Have a nice life.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
I fine. I enjoy putting you in your place
You make me feel like a genius! You are so enraptured by your counterfeit, bankrupt ideology you just can't see you're blinded by it.
You have such a high regard for human beings you think for the right thing if only the evil guv'mint would get out of the way...ha! That's genuinely funny.
But I AM done with you because it's like beating up a cripple on the street, or making fun of a retarded person
Hahaha.
Have a nice life.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
dalefvictor comments on Jan 15, 2020:
Great sarcasm.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD No I DON'T think citizens should have ALL their money to spend "as they see fit."
That goes for my neighbors as well.
People will spend their money exactly as you'd expect: for their own good and betterment.
The common good, the betterment of society in general? Hah! Screw that!
People like you are precisely why we need government: to protect me from you. Or Jack from Henry. Or Harry from Bertrand.
No, the same people who are ruining the world would LOVE an unregulated marketplace in which they could rape and pillage their "fellow man" with impunity.
You, my friend, are living in a dream world.
dalefvictor comments on Jan 15, 2020:
Great sarcasm.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD No I DON'T think citizens should have ALL their money to spend "as they see fit."
That goes for my neighbors as well.
People will spend their money exactly as you'd expect: for their own good and betterment.
The common good, the betterment of society in general? Hah! Screw that!
People like you are precisely why we need government: to protect me from you. Or Jack from Henry. Or Harry from Bertrand.
No, the same people who are ruining the world would LOVE an unregulated marketplace in which they could rape and pillage their "fellow man" with impunity.
You, my friend, are living in a dream world.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
FatherOfNyx comments on Jan 15, 2020:
I get it.. You're trying to equate the government to god in hopes of implanting anti-government ideals in atheists and agnostics.
It's not going to work, but I get it.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD Yes, you sound like a libertarian anarchist.
You mean you're not?
FatherOfNyx comments on Jan 15, 2020:
I get it.. You're trying to equate the government to god in hopes of implanting anti-government ideals in atheists and agnostics.
It's not going to work, but I get it.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD Yes, you sound like a libertarian anarchist.
You mean you're not?
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD There is no such thing as a "libertarian form of government," except as a useful theory which in practice would be a complete disaster.
Why do you think, for instance, the Security and Exchange Commission exists, because people are capable of self-regulating financial transactions?
Or the EPA, because people will voluntarily preserve a environmentally critical wetland when they could sell it or develop it at maximum profit?
Or OSHA...I suppose employers will all create safe workplaces without the interfering government stepping in?
The list goes on and on.
PEOPLE (some anyway) HAVE TO BE REGULATED!
Your de-regulated world? No thanks.
And where does the big bad government get the money to regulate, among other things? US, in the form of taxes.
In fact, we should be taxing rich people and corporations MORE, so we could regulate more!
Ralph Waldo Emetson famously said, "The best form of government is no government at all, and when people are ready for it, that's the form of government they'll have."
News Flash: people ain't ready for it! Do you live under a rock or something?!?
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD There is no such thing as a "libertarian form of government," except as a useful theory which in practice would be a complete disaster.
Why do you think, for instance, the Security and Exchange Commission exists, because people are capable of self-regulating financial transactions?
Or the EPA, because people will voluntarily preserve a environmentally critical wetland when they could sell it or develop it at maximum profit?
Or OSHA...I suppose employers will all create safe workplaces without the interfering government stepping in?
The list goes on and on.
PEOPLE (some anyway) HAVE TO BE REGULATED!
Your de-regulated world? No thanks.
And where does the big bad government get the money to regulate, among other things? US, in the form of taxes.
In fact, we should be taxing rich people and corporations MORE, so we could regulate more!
Ralph Waldo Emetson famously said, "The best form of government is no government at all, and when people are ready for it, that's the form of government they'll have."
News Flash: people ain't ready for it! Do you live under a rock or something?!?
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD I disagree with your premises (along with just about everybody else--say something outlandish and watch the vultures circle!).
Laws: which do you take exception to?
Of course the criminal justice system makes mistakes, but it doesn't systematically punish innocent people. I'm not naive. I know there are abuses. But generally speaking it seems to work well enough.
Taxation: again, not a perfect system, and if it were up to me the money would be spent far differently with much different priorities.
But to say we shouldn't be taxed doesn't make sense.
God: your point being the government is arrogantly ACTING like it IS 'god.'
I just don't see how.
If this were a fascist authoritarian dictatorship, a 1984-Big Brother totalitarian nightmare, then yes, it'd be doing so; but it's a (deeply flawed) democracy, with a Bill of Rights sometimes trampled on but nevertheless in place, and operative.
So in short I think it is YOU who are being naive; without government, AND police (including it's abuses), AND an military (misused but indispensable), there wouldn't be much of a society, now would there?
Civilization as we know it would not exist.
What is your alternative?
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 17, 2020:
@GlyndonD I disagree with your premises (along with just about everybody else--say something outlandish and watch the vultures circle!).
Laws: which do you take exception to?
Of course the criminal justice system makes mistakes, but it doesn't systematically punish innocent people. I'm not naive. I know there are abuses. But generally speaking it seems to work well enough.
Taxation: again, not a perfect system, and if it were up to me the money would be spent far differently with much different priorities.
But to say we shouldn't be taxed doesn't make sense.
God: your point being the government is arrogantly ACTING like it IS 'god.'
I just don't see how.
If this were a fascist authoritarian dictatorship, a 1984-Big Brother totalitarian nightmare, then yes, it'd be doing so; but it's a (deeply flawed) democracy, with a Bill of Rights sometimes trampled on but nevertheless in place, and operative.
So in short I think it is YOU who are being naive; without government, AND police (including it's abuses), AND an military (misused but indispensable), there wouldn't be much of a society, now would there?
Civilization as we know it would not exist.
What is your alternative?
Depressed Agnostics?
JackBord comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Religious people tend to have higher serotonin levels as their belief system gives them the feeling of special status in the world. Serotonin is a feel good neurotransmitter.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@Grecio There MAY be an afterlife.
JackBord comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Religious people tend to have higher serotonin levels as their belief system gives them the feeling of special status in the world. Serotonin is a feel good neurotransmitter.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@Grecio There MAY be an afterlife.
Depressed Agnostics?
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
If you asked me this as a neutral question, I'd say, "definitely no!'
I'm much happier.
I wish you'd cited the article.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@Grecio Thank you.
Given the source of the article, I lend it no credence whatsoever, troll.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
If you asked me this as a neutral question, I'd say, "definitely no!'
I'm much happier.
I wish you'd cited the article.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@Grecio Thank you.
Given the source of the article, I lend it no credence whatsoever, troll.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD YOU, maybe.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 16, 2020:
Who is 'we?'
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD YOU, maybe.
Strange particles found in Antarctica cannot be explained by physics | New Scientist
TimeOutForMe comments on Jan 16, 2020:
What do you suggest it could be? Secret landing of UFOs? Please tell 😊
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
Some say there's an ET base underneath the ice.
TimeOutForMe comments on Jan 16, 2020:
What do you suggest it could be? Secret landing of UFOs? Please tell 😊
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
Some say there's an ET base underneath the ice.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
BitFlipper comments on Jan 15, 2020:
WTF? That dissertation isn't anything like proof. It's a list of assertions and opinions. Give me a break!
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD Dear Airhead:
Our government is a reflection of us. We OWN it. If it falls, it's because we have failed.
BUT our collective strangth thus marshalled and focused on collective problems makes up for any deficiencies.
I criticize our government, but I wouldn't want it to simply 'go away!'
You apparently do.
You apparently should live somewhere with no government.
Sorry.
No such place.
I guess you're stuck here.
BitFlipper comments on Jan 15, 2020:
WTF? That dissertation isn't anything like proof. It's a list of assertions and opinions. Give me a break!
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD Dear Airhead:
Our government is a reflection of us. We OWN it. If it falls, it's because we have failed.
BUT our collective strangth thus marshalled and focused on collective problems makes up for any deficiencies.
I criticize our government, but I wouldn't want it to simply 'go away!'
You apparently do.
You apparently should live somewhere with no government.
Sorry.
No such place.
I guess you're stuck here.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
skado comments on Jan 15, 2020:
We create our own government. Government doesn't create us.
We don't create our own physics. Physics creates us.
If there is a proper candidate for the abstraction we call God,
it’s the entirety of reality and its natural laws.
Not something we, ourselves made.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
Well said.
skado comments on Jan 15, 2020:
We create our own government. Government doesn't create us.
We don't create our own physics. Physics creates us.
If there is a proper candidate for the abstraction we call God,
it’s the entirety of reality and its natural laws.
Not something we, ourselves made.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
Well said.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
Shawno1972 comments on Jan 15, 2020:
Kewl. So which Government? There are hundreds throughout the world...thousands if you include region, city, etc.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD The 16th Amendment?
Are you high?
I'd personally rather have a national sales tax, but to say a government levying an income tax is assuming god-like powers is, frankly, Looney Tunes.
You're in the wrong place, my friend.
Shawno1972 comments on Jan 15, 2020:
Kewl. So which Government? There are hundreds throughout the world...thousands if you include region, city, etc.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD The 16th Amendment?
Are you high?
I'd personally rather have a national sales tax, but to say a government levying an income tax is assuming god-like powers is, frankly, Looney Tunes.
You're in the wrong place, my friend.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
FatherOfNyx comments on Jan 15, 2020:
I get it.. You're trying to equate the government to god in hopes of implanting anti-government ideals in atheists and agnostics.
It's not going to work, but I get it.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD Spoken like a true Republican.
Or Anarchist.
Ever hear of Ronald Raegan? You'd have loved him. Said the same thing.
FatherOfNyx comments on Jan 15, 2020:
I get it.. You're trying to equate the government to god in hopes of implanting anti-government ideals in atheists and agnostics.
It's not going to work, but I get it.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
@GlyndonD Spoken like a true Republican.
Or Anarchist.
Ever hear of Ronald Raegan? You'd have loved him. Said the same thing.
The Proof: That God Exists
There is a hierarchy in Animalia, not only as quantified by the DNA ...
Fred_Snerd comments on Jan 16, 2020:
It's hard to believe the hate this thread is getting, since I have carried the same thoughts as the OP for years. Government is full of corruption in the major parties. Elections are run Madison Avenue style to get us excited about worthless products. They try to lure the empathetic or the narrow ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
I don't feel 'enslaved.'
Sorry.
Fred_Snerd comments on Jan 16, 2020:
It's hard to believe the hate this thread is getting, since I have carried the same thoughts as the OP for years. Government is full of corruption in the major parties. Elections are run Madison Avenue style to get us excited about worthless products. They try to lure the empathetic or the narrow ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 16, 2020:
I don't feel 'enslaved.'
Sorry.
Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven | The Independent
Aurora62 comments on Jan 15, 2020:
Dear Pope Francis.... Where is heaven exactly?? And do we really want to go there... thank you but no thank you, I’ll pass lol.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 15, 2020:
Not so fast!
He also said if you sin you sin...no free rides! Do the crime, do the time!
Aurora62 comments on Jan 15, 2020:
Dear Pope Francis.... Where is heaven exactly?? And do we really want to go there... thank you but no thank you, I’ll pass lol.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 15, 2020:
Not so fast!
He also said if you sin you sin...no free rides! Do the crime, do the time!
In need for advice and/or support.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 14, 2020:
It's always possible there are more bad than good people in the world!
That aside, I seem to get taken advantage of...I can be manipulated, have trouble standing my ground, and maybe tagged as weak by sociopaths who are good at "culling the vulnerable from the herd."
I try to not make myself a ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 15, 2020:
@Barnie2years Ha. Seems like their job is to make us as UNcomfortable as possible! Test us. See if we have what it takes.
My attitude is to "go with the flow" and not worry about it.
I said I haven't given up, but part of that overarching strategy IS to give up.
I live alone and I'm concentrating on getting to know myself better, be comfortable with myself TO myself, become my own best friend.
I figure I only have myself, when it comes right down to it.
Being REALLY alone means not being connected needfully.
I've been reading some online articles on how to be a successful recluse. It's amazing how many people are adopting that state of being as a lifestyle choice.
If you're UNHAPPY being alone, it's an unhappy time fraught with loneliness, feelings of inadequacy, despair..
But if you can embrace it and take advantage of that time to learn, develop, grow, and appreciate yourself for the special and unique creation you are, it's all to the good.
Know what I mean?
Storm1752 comments on Jan 14, 2020:
It's always possible there are more bad than good people in the world!
That aside, I seem to get taken advantage of...I can be manipulated, have trouble standing my ground, and maybe tagged as weak by sociopaths who are good at "culling the vulnerable from the herd."
I try to not make myself a ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 15, 2020:
@Barnie2years Ha. Seems like their job is to make us as UNcomfortable as possible! Test us. See if we have what it takes.
My attitude is to "go with the flow" and not worry about it.
I said I haven't given up, but part of that overarching strategy IS to give up.
I live alone and I'm concentrating on getting to know myself better, be comfortable with myself TO myself, become my own best friend.
I figure I only have myself, when it comes right down to it.
Being REALLY alone means not being connected needfully.
I've been reading some online articles on how to be a successful recluse. It's amazing how many people are adopting that state of being as a lifestyle choice.
If you're UNHAPPY being alone, it's an unhappy time fraught with loneliness, feelings of inadequacy, despair..
But if you can embrace it and take advantage of that time to learn, develop, grow, and appreciate yourself for the special and unique creation you are, it's all to the good.
Know what I mean?
We all have our shit.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 14, 2020:
Good one.
My siblings insist on blaming our mother for everything.
I don't.
Problems? Yes.
Her fault? Well,...maybe her strict Catholic fundamentalism didn't help, but it was far from the whole story.
She did her best; now it's up to me.
It's hard sometimes not to scapegoat, but I find it ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
@MissKathleen I'm FINE, more or less.
Everybody's got problems. Welcome to planet Earth
Storm1752 comments on Jan 14, 2020:
Good one.
My siblings insist on blaming our mother for everything.
I don't.
Problems? Yes.
Her fault? Well,...maybe her strict Catholic fundamentalism didn't help, but it was far from the whole story.
She did her best; now it's up to me.
It's hard sometimes not to scapegoat, but I find it ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
@MissKathleen I'm FINE, more or less.
Everybody's got problems. Welcome to planet Earth
The best thing about being agnostic is knowing (as much as it is humanly possible) there is no hell.
powder comments on Jan 11, 2020:
I have wondered if the mind survives the body. If it does then the mind would be without physical restrains. So if the mind believed in hell then it's not so much of a stretch the mind would create its own.
So be careful what you believe....perhaps.
An awful lot of ifs here. Why it's belief or a ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
Shining?
A shinning light WOULD be...what's a shinning light?
powder comments on Jan 11, 2020:
I have wondered if the mind survives the body. If it does then the mind would be without physical restrains. So if the mind believed in hell then it's not so much of a stretch the mind would create its own.
So be careful what you believe....perhaps.
An awful lot of ifs here. Why it's belief or a ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
Shining?
A shinning light WOULD be...what's a shinning light?
The best thing about being agnostic is knowing (as much as it is humanly possible) there is no hell.
Paddypereira comments on Jan 12, 2020:
Many times we make our own Hell during our lives. As we aren't perfect, the best we can do is finding balance between our qualities and our faults. I think that's more than enough for us.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
@Dee138 Have you NEVER seen the research which seems to all but prove reincarnation is real, or at least strongly indicated?
It may surprise you.
Paddypereira comments on Jan 12, 2020:
Many times we make our own Hell during our lives. As we aren't perfect, the best we can do is finding balance between our qualities and our faults. I think that's more than enough for us.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
@Dee138 Have you NEVER seen the research which seems to all but prove reincarnation is real, or at least strongly indicated?
It may surprise you.
The best thing about being agnostic is knowing (as much as it is humanly possible) there is no hell.
Davesnothere comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I overcame notions of hell long before I discarded notions of a God because . . .
The Christian concept of Hell turns God into an extortionist.
For God, being all knowing, timeless and ever present, created man with full knowledge he would fall (or your definition fails and God is not all ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
I know. Most of us do.
No better news than THAT!
It's been a long time since I settled that question to my complete satisfaction--oh, maybe 10 or 40 years--and've been on an intermittent high ever since.
Can't ALWAYS be giddy with elation and relief.
Davesnothere comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I overcame notions of hell long before I discarded notions of a God because . . .
The Christian concept of Hell turns God into an extortionist.
For God, being all knowing, timeless and ever present, created man with full knowledge he would fall (or your definition fails and God is not all ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
I know. Most of us do.
No better news than THAT!
It's been a long time since I settled that question to my complete satisfaction--oh, maybe 10 or 40 years--and've been on an intermittent high ever since.
Can't ALWAYS be giddy with elation and relief.
The best thing about being agnostic is knowing (as much as it is humanly possible) there is no hell.
Larry-new comments on Jan 12, 2020:
The prospect of a sky-daddy is laughable, yet agnostics hold open the silly possibility. Ha.
I must then consider including agnostics among the deluded.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
You're wrong.
Atheists are so depressing ..
Why can't you open your mind to other possibilities than a talking Purple Dragon in in your garage?!?
It COULD be anything, including an impersonal non-entity which explains
1. Matter and energy
2. Consciousness
3. Life.
Or maybe not. SOMETHING explains it! No, I don't know what.
No, there's no "evidence" except for psychism, reincarnation, the Gaza pyramids, and dozens, maybe hundreds, THOUSANDS, of other phenomena, which you obviously and willfully ignore, because you like things absolute, black-and-white, and so simple you don't have to think about it.
That's up to you, but calling us "delusional" only strongly indicates to me you don't want to examine life in all it's complexity, but only to reduce it to a cartoonish mundanity.
By claiming you already KNOW the "truth," you can't be bothered with inconvenient, contrary details.
This makes you no better than the theists you make such a show of despising.
You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face.
Not that I do. I just investigate, research the ramifications, get nowhere, and try again.
You're BORING.
Larry-new comments on Jan 12, 2020:
The prospect of a sky-daddy is laughable, yet agnostics hold open the silly possibility. Ha.
I must then consider including agnostics among the deluded.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
You're wrong.
Atheists are so depressing ..
Why can't you open your mind to other possibilities than a talking Purple Dragon in in your garage?!?
It COULD be anything, including an impersonal non-entity which explains
1. Matter and energy
2. Consciousness
3. Life.
Or maybe not. SOMETHING explains it! No, I don't know what.
No, there's no "evidence" except for psychism, reincarnation, the Gaza pyramids, and dozens, maybe hundreds, THOUSANDS, of other phenomena, which you obviously and willfully ignore, because you like things absolute, black-and-white, and so simple you don't have to think about it.
That's up to you, but calling us "delusional" only strongly indicates to me you don't want to examine life in all it's complexity, but only to reduce it to a cartoonish mundanity.
By claiming you already KNOW the "truth," you can't be bothered with inconvenient, contrary details.
This makes you no better than the theists you make such a show of despising.
You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face.
Not that I do. I just investigate, research the ramifications, get nowhere, and try again.
You're BORING.
I have come to find agnostic/atheists decrying "know it all" atheists to be nearly as wrong and ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
@Davesnothere No I do not believe in God, and if there IS such a thing it probably won't be "explaining" anything to me because it probably isn't an entity with a brain and a mouth and thoughts, etc.
Who I'm envisioning EXPLAINING these things will be scientists, in all likelihood, and they almost certainly won't be explaining anything to me because I will be long gone.
Scientists are learning new things every day, though, so I haven't entirely given up hope.
It seems you are very orthodox in your atheistic beliefs, fancy yourself agnostic but cannot accept many heretical agnostic thoughts, so in reaction to what I'm saying accuse me of being a theist, which is I assure you not true.
It's sad you can't understand my position, but it's not unusual for people to have divergent thoughts.
In the meantime you will cling to your beliefs and adopt a passive-aggressive attitude of "show me the evidence."
Haha. My good fellow, I'm under no obligation to show you anything.
If you want to ignore all the evidence available literally in the palm of your hand, for such things as reincarnation, psychism, and the Gaza pyramids, and MANY other things, do so with my unnecessary permission and acquiescence.
None of those things require a belief in god, btw. They MAY require of some people an open mind, however.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 14, 2020:
@Davesnothere No I do not believe in God, and if there IS such a thing it probably won't be "explaining" anything to me because it probably isn't an entity with a brain and a mouth and thoughts, etc.
Who I'm envisioning EXPLAINING these things will be scientists, in all likelihood, and they almost certainly won't be explaining anything to me because I will be long gone.
Scientists are learning new things every day, though, so I haven't entirely given up hope.
It seems you are very orthodox in your atheistic beliefs, fancy yourself agnostic but cannot accept many heretical agnostic thoughts, so in reaction to what I'm saying accuse me of being a theist, which is I assure you not true.
It's sad you can't understand my position, but it's not unusual for people to have divergent thoughts.
In the meantime you will cling to your beliefs and adopt a passive-aggressive attitude of "show me the evidence."
Haha. My good fellow, I'm under no obligation to show you anything.
If you want to ignore all the evidence available literally in the palm of your hand, for such things as reincarnation, psychism, and the Gaza pyramids, and MANY other things, do so with my unnecessary permission and acquiescence.
None of those things require a belief in god, btw. They MAY require of some people an open mind, however.
Why atheist get it wrong when addressing apologetics.
Cast1es comments on Jan 13, 2020:
In my opinion , "Why bother ? " is a better question . Other than when they come knocking on my door , I try not to get into these debates with those of other religions . Sahira law aside , I choose to let others believe in whatever they believe . If their religion satisifies whatever their needs ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
Sharia law.
Cast1es comments on Jan 13, 2020:
In my opinion , "Why bother ? " is a better question . Other than when they come knocking on my door , I try not to get into these debates with those of other religions . Sahira law aside , I choose to let others believe in whatever they believe . If their religion satisifies whatever their needs ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
Sharia law.
Why atheist get it wrong when addressing apologetics.
Outsideit67 comments on Jan 13, 2020:
Humans in general seem to be overly protective of things they love or are attached to . They have this god that is Omnipotent, so why in theory would it need defense? Because this god of their’s does not show up to defend itself , they see themselves as it’s children or disciples , so they ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
Huh?
Outsideit67 comments on Jan 13, 2020:
Humans in general seem to be overly protective of things they love or are attached to . They have this god that is Omnipotent, so why in theory would it need defense? Because this god of their’s does not show up to defend itself , they see themselves as it’s children or disciples , so they ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
Huh?
God is not necessary for religion.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 13, 2020:
Do animals and even insects have consciousness?
Yes.
Do they have a written-down set of laws, rituals, etc.?
No.
Are there certain 'natural laws' by which they abide?
Sure.
So do we.
It's like some conservatives think they invented the free enterprise system, when in fact it's always existed....
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@Omnedon No. Awkward phrasing. I was proposing (not stating as fact as it may've sounded) religions are based on 'natural law' (instincts, needs, desires insuring the survival and propagation of the species) but interpret these laws in artificial ways to fit their particular ideology--just as political conservatives co-opt basic economics to fit THEIR ideology and forestall progress.
As usual, obsolete dogma lives on, despite new discoveries, because it has the imprimatur of a godly origin. If god said it....well, you know...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 13, 2020:
Do animals and even insects have consciousness?
Yes.
Do they have a written-down set of laws, rituals, etc.?
No.
Are there certain 'natural laws' by which they abide?
Sure.
So do we.
It's like some conservatives think they invented the free enterprise system, when in fact it's always existed....
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@Omnedon No. Awkward phrasing. I was proposing (not stating as fact as it may've sounded) religions are based on 'natural law' (instincts, needs, desires insuring the survival and propagation of the species) but interpret these laws in artificial ways to fit their particular ideology--just as political conservatives co-opt basic economics to fit THEIR ideology and forestall progress.
As usual, obsolete dogma lives on, despite new discoveries, because it has the imprimatur of a godly origin. If god said it....well, you know...
I have come to find agnostic/atheists decrying "know it all" atheists to be nearly as wrong and ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@Davesnothere Better explanations for reality...hmmm...like what? I'VE never heard of a good one.
The Buddhists say the universe expands and contracts in an eternal cycle: Big Bang from a tiny speck, expansion, burnout, implosion back into a tiny speck, explosion, on and on and on, forever. A reality which is born, lives, dies, is reborn, etc.
They say the physical world (Maya) has always existed, no beginning, no end.
Might be an "explanation," might be b*llsh*t; regardless, it really doesn't REALLY explain anything, does it?
I have a feeling it WILL be explained eventually, which will prove to also be the 'explanation' of 'god.'
I think extra-planetary civilizations far older, more advanced and sophisticated than us already have many if not all of these explanations.
So are we fundamentally disagreeing on our definitions of god?
This has been my main point all along, and I guess I might not have 'explained' myself well enough.
If I call Jetson's conveyance a 'flying car' and you call it a 'plane,' we are both using 21st Century words and concepts, right?
What if it was actually an antigravitational device, and George Jetson ( being from the technologically superior 25th Century) called it a 'levitron?' What if despite appearances it was nothing like a car OR a plane?
You and I would both be wrong, wouldn't we? We'd be mis-identifying the 'evidence' of our eyes, falsely defining it based on ignorance.
10 centuries after they bury George, 'levitrons' would've given way long since to teleporters, wormhole transporters, and interdimensional orbs or saucers. We would be totally amazed, speechless. Our brains would likely freeze and lock up! These people, only 1300 years later, might even appear to be 'gods!' Or, they'd have made contact with 'god,' or at the very least know it's fundamental properties!
Anyway, our differing definitions and terminology, as you say, may be the real issue.
Finally, I'm happy to report I'm feeling stable, despite my lack of answers due to man's state of scientific ignorance. But holding up nicely, thank you.
I AM nervous YOU risk stress-related problems stemming from your concern for my mental health.
Fear not.
Rest assured I feel no need to 'prove' god; keep in mind I'm aware that IS at present impossible. I'm not saying it even exists anyway--just that it's possible IF one first finds out what god (ultimate basic knowledge of the physical world, for starters?) is, BEFORE trying to define it.
IT must be something; surely you're not saying scientists already understand everything?
I want to clarify: I do NOT believe Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Odin, Jesus, etc., will ever be proven, in the same way I don"t believe demons will be proven to cause physical or mental illness or death, for example (though BELIEF IN them CAN ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@Davesnothere Better explanations for reality...hmmm...like what? I'VE never heard of a good one.
The Buddhists say the universe expands and contracts in an eternal cycle: Big Bang from a tiny speck, expansion, burnout, implosion back into a tiny speck, explosion, on and on and on, forever. A reality which is born, lives, dies, is reborn, etc.
They say the physical world (Maya) has always existed, no beginning, no end.
Might be an "explanation," might be b*llsh*t; regardless, it really doesn't REALLY explain anything, does it?
I have a feeling it WILL be explained eventually, which will prove to also be the 'explanation' of 'god.'
I think extra-planetary civilizations far older, more advanced and sophisticated than us already have many if not all of these explanations.
So are we fundamentally disagreeing on our definitions of god?
This has been my main point all along, and I guess I might not have 'explained' myself well enough.
If I call Jetson's conveyance a 'flying car' and you call it a 'plane,' we are both using 21st Century words and concepts, right?
What if it was actually an antigravitational device, and George Jetson ( being from the technologically superior 25th Century) called it a 'levitron?' What if despite appearances it was nothing like a car OR a plane?
You and I would both be wrong, wouldn't we? We'd be mis-identifying the 'evidence' of our eyes, falsely defining it based on ignorance.
10 centuries after they bury George, 'levitrons' would've given way long since to teleporters, wormhole transporters, and interdimensional orbs or saucers. We would be totally amazed, speechless. Our brains would likely freeze and lock up! These people, only 1300 years later, might even appear to be 'gods!' Or, they'd have made contact with 'god,' or at the very least know it's fundamental properties!
Anyway, our differing definitions and terminology, as you say, may be the real issue.
Finally, I'm happy to report I'm feeling stable, despite my lack of answers due to man's state of scientific ignorance. But holding up nicely, thank you.
I AM nervous YOU risk stress-related problems stemming from your concern for my mental health.
Fear not.
Rest assured I feel no need to 'prove' god; keep in mind I'm aware that IS at present impossible. I'm not saying it even exists anyway--just that it's possible IF one first finds out what god (ultimate basic knowledge of the physical world, for starters?) is, BEFORE trying to define it.
IT must be something; surely you're not saying scientists already understand everything?
I want to clarify: I do NOT believe Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Odin, Jesus, etc., will ever be proven, in the same way I don"t believe demons will be proven to cause physical or mental illness or death, for example (though BELIEF IN them CAN ...
As a former journalist, a few (hopefully) helpful hints to fellow posters:
1.
ElusiveMoby comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I like the way you numbered your points rather than writing in paragraph form. Much easier for the reader.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
TY
ElusiveMoby comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I like the way you numbered your points rather than writing in paragraph form. Much easier for the reader.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
TY
So, I looked at a man’s profile here on the site, to learn a little about him, because of ...
WalterWhite comments on Jan 12, 2020:
Sounds a little desperate and will take anything he can get. But yes, that would be a turnoff for a woman looking for a confident loyal guy who really knows what he's aiming for.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
You're assuming a "confident, loyal guy" can't have a number of "hookups" and/or short-term relationships, THEN find "the one" and be loyal. That's just wrong.
WalterWhite comments on Jan 12, 2020:
Sounds a little desperate and will take anything he can get. But yes, that would be a turnoff for a woman looking for a confident loyal guy who really knows what he's aiming for.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
You're assuming a "confident, loyal guy" can't have a number of "hookups" and/or short-term relationships, THEN find "the one" and be loyal. That's just wrong.
So, I looked at a man’s profile here on the site, to learn a little about him, because of ...
sassygirl3869 comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I agree -hookups are hookups -been there years ago/done that. Not any more. Men are strange creatures. Totally baffled about some of them. Some can prove themselves to be very shallow. Going to try to avoid those from here on out.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
Good luck!
sassygirl3869 comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I agree -hookups are hookups -been there years ago/done that. Not any more. Men are strange creatures. Totally baffled about some of them. Some can prove themselves to be very shallow. Going to try to avoid those from here on out.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
Good luck!
So, I looked at a man’s profile here on the site, to learn a little about him, because of ...
MsHoliday comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I think he is a typical man doing what he was put here for..... to spread his seed. At least he is open about it.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@dare2dream What do you mean, "like that?"
My mother said about my father once, as she exited the bedroom in a huff, pulling her robe around her, "all he ever thinks about is sex!" (He came out a while later looking sheepish.)
They were together until he died at 84. She's 97 now
Yes, us men!
She admitted when I asked her point-blank that yes, she enjoyed sex with him a lot. And they had a lot of sex. I was happy to hear that...it meant I could finally heal from that childhood wound.
HE admitted to me once he had enjoyed a number of "hookups" prior to marriage. He never said how many.
MsHoliday comments on Jan 12, 2020:
I think he is a typical man doing what he was put here for..... to spread his seed. At least he is open about it.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@dare2dream What do you mean, "like that?"
My mother said about my father once, as she exited the bedroom in a huff, pulling her robe around her, "all he ever thinks about is sex!" (He came out a while later looking sheepish.)
They were together until he died at 84. She's 97 now
Yes, us men!
She admitted when I asked her point-blank that yes, she enjoyed sex with him a lot. And they had a lot of sex. I was happy to hear that...it meant I could finally heal from that childhood wound.
HE admitted to me once he had enjoyed a number of "hookups" prior to marriage. He never said how many.
I have come to find agnostic/atheists decrying "know it all" atheists to be nearly as wrong and ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@Davesnothere
I'm saying there is no basis for belief or non-belief. You say DIS-belief. I say there's no difference
Speaking of hell: if you want to make an assertion 'god' is evil, and on that basis say it is possible and understandable hell exists, that's one thing.
If you want to claim 'god' is an entity with human emotions, among them anger, hatred, and a desire for vengeance against disloyal humans, them hell could be a real place.
I don't believe IN any kind of god, but I DO believe the existence of an impersonal, unknowable 'god' is certainly a reasonable idea, because there MUST be an Explanation for matter and energy. They are two forms of the same thing. What IS that thing? God? Maybe, if you want to call it that. Does it have consciousness of itself? Well, WE have consciousness of OURSELVES, and we are made up of matter and energy. So I suppose you could say we are representative of 'god' in that sense.
But what does that MEAN?
No clue.
WE are not immortal. But matter and energy are.
So how are we to understand this? Do we "believe IN" matter and energy? The periodic table? Should we worship the sun? We might as well worship a stone. Or a goat. Or a rainbow. Or a pile of excrement for that matter.
What I am saying is it is not possible to understand god.
That's my 'belief.'
Atheist--believes IN the NON-existence of 'god.'
Agnostic--neither believes nor disbelieves. Thinks 'god' is not something one can be spoken of as existing or not existing.
Of COURSE 'god' exists! Of COURSE 'he' doesn't!
The problem is, we have no idea what 'god' is...IT cannot be spoken of that way.
Take 'dark matter:' does it exist?
Physicists say it must. But what IS it? What is matter? What is energy? I don't know. Do you?
Without the context of a 'supreme deity,' the word ceases to have any meaning to a human mind trapped in four-dimensional space and time.
So, to a 'neo-deist,' God exists as an abstract concept, but we have no way to measure, qualify, quantify, identify, or in any other way describe what IT is.
And THAT is what frustrates atheists about at least THIS agnostics' viewpoint.
I don't know.
Yes IT exists because WE do. Or is it your opinion we don't exist? Who are we? We, along with everything else in the physical universe we see, and everything we can't see or detect with instruments, everything in other dimensions (if they exist), EVERYTHING is god. Or nothing is. Or both!
So, I ask you again, does god exist?
Doesn't it depend on what you mean by god?
That SAID, I DO think reincarnation is a real 'thing,' at least for some people. An afterlife is a real possibility. There are clues and a certain kind of "evidence," circumstantial and otherwise, which could lead a reasonable person to speculate about these things.
But that's it. That's all we...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 13, 2020:
@Davesnothere
I'm saying there is no basis for belief or non-belief. You say DIS-belief. I say there's no difference
Speaking of hell: if you want to make an assertion 'god' is evil, and on that basis say it is possible and understandable hell exists, that's one thing.
If you want to claim 'god' is an entity with human emotions, among them anger, hatred, and a desire for vengeance against disloyal humans, them hell could be a real place.
I don't believe IN any kind of god, but I DO believe the existence of an impersonal, unknowable 'god' is certainly a reasonable idea, because there MUST be an Explanation for matter and energy. They are two forms of the same thing. What IS that thing? God? Maybe, if you want to call it that. Does it have consciousness of itself? Well, WE have consciousness of OURSELVES, and we are made up of matter and energy. So I suppose you could say we are representative of 'god' in that sense.
But what does that MEAN?
No clue.
WE are not immortal. But matter and energy are.
So how are we to understand this? Do we "believe IN" matter and energy? The periodic table? Should we worship the sun? We might as well worship a stone. Or a goat. Or a rainbow. Or a pile of excrement for that matter.
What I am saying is it is not possible to understand god.
That's my 'belief.'
Atheist--believes IN the NON-existence of 'god.'
Agnostic--neither believes nor disbelieves. Thinks 'god' is not something one can be spoken of as existing or not existing.
Of COURSE 'god' exists! Of COURSE 'he' doesn't!
The problem is, we have no idea what 'god' is...IT cannot be spoken of that way.
Take 'dark matter:' does it exist?
Physicists say it must. But what IS it? What is matter? What is energy? I don't know. Do you?
Without the context of a 'supreme deity,' the word ceases to have any meaning to a human mind trapped in four-dimensional space and time.
So, to a 'neo-deist,' God exists as an abstract concept, but we have no way to measure, qualify, quantify, identify, or in any other way describe what IT is.
And THAT is what frustrates atheists about at least THIS agnostics' viewpoint.
I don't know.
Yes IT exists because WE do. Or is it your opinion we don't exist? Who are we? We, along with everything else in the physical universe we see, and everything we can't see or detect with instruments, everything in other dimensions (if they exist), EVERYTHING is god. Or nothing is. Or both!
So, I ask you again, does god exist?
Doesn't it depend on what you mean by god?
That SAID, I DO think reincarnation is a real 'thing,' at least for some people. An afterlife is a real possibility. There are clues and a certain kind of "evidence," circumstantial and otherwise, which could lead a reasonable person to speculate about these things.
But that's it. That's all we...
The best thing about being agnostic is knowing (as much as it is humanly possible) there is no hell.
Jennw comments on Jan 11, 2020:
Sometimes I wish there was a hell because there are some people I'd love to send there!
Storm1752 replies on Jan 11, 2020:
Wow.
Let's not make YOU god, then.
Jennw comments on Jan 11, 2020:
Sometimes I wish there was a hell because there are some people I'd love to send there!
Storm1752 replies on Jan 11, 2020:
Wow.
Let's not make YOU god, then.
The best thing about being agnostic is knowing (as much as it is humanly possible) there is no hell.
Omnedon comments on Jan 11, 2020:
One question: as an agnostic, do you in fact know that there is no hell? (I know you qualify that with "as much as it is humanly possible".) I guess I would have assumed a more neutral view. I'm not being critical at all; I'm just curious how this would differ from being agnostic about the existence...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 11, 2020:
Good point; no I can't say 'no hell.'
BUT by most definitions 'god' is a beneficient, loving, and all-around 'good guy,' right? If so, he or she wouldn't DREAM of creating such a horrid place, right?
So BY DEFINITION there is no hell.
As a Neo-Deist, I envision 'god' as an IT, if it exists at all, like e=mc√, not as someone with human emotions. That's just my concept.
Now if 'god' is indifferent or hostile to humans (another extremely foolish and nonsensical possibility) then yes, hell is in play.
That would require a drastically revised definition of god.
The whole prospect is ludicrous literally beyond belief.
Omnedon comments on Jan 11, 2020:
One question: as an agnostic, do you in fact know that there is no hell? (I know you qualify that with "as much as it is humanly possible".) I guess I would have assumed a more neutral view. I'm not being critical at all; I'm just curious how this would differ from being agnostic about the existence...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 11, 2020:
Good point; no I can't say 'no hell.'
BUT by most definitions 'god' is a beneficient, loving, and all-around 'good guy,' right? If so, he or she wouldn't DREAM of creating such a horrid place, right?
So BY DEFINITION there is no hell.
As a Neo-Deist, I envision 'god' as an IT, if it exists at all, like e=mc√, not as someone with human emotions. That's just my concept.
Now if 'god' is indifferent or hostile to humans (another extremely foolish and nonsensical possibility) then yes, hell is in play.
That would require a drastically revised definition of god.
The whole prospect is ludicrous literally beyond belief.
I imagine there is quite a lot of this these days.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 11, 2020:
Easier said than done.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 11, 2020:
@MissKathleen Oldster?!? Moi?
Ignoring that unintentional slight, yes I suppose you're right.
Being young, such situations, like everything else, are more flexible and fluid. This, it seems to me, CAN be a good thing...or bad...or somewhere in between...
Like even the most basic one-on-one relationships: when young, much more easily entered into, because walls have not gone up, baggage not yet accumulated.
So depending on the luck of the draw, a person who may be reflexively shunned later, may be admitted into a circle of trust, with varying results.
If the result is positive, does that circle get larger; if negative, smaller, until hardly anyone fits inside?
Discrimination can protect one from danger, but can also screen out pleasure and happiness.
Maybe that's why 'oldsters' like us can find ourselves isolated and alone as with the passing of the years, we become fearful of a lot of well-meaning, but 'marginal,' would-be friends we never get to know.
With good reason, oftentimes! But still, it's rather sad, for as with our bones, our outlooks can become brittle and fragile, and our naturally friendly and generous natures may harden, coarsen, and sour.
I say MAY. One can deliberately preserve his or her innocence, and continue to take calculated chances, IF willing to pay the potentially harmful price.
I personally think it's worth it, if risky.
That said, I hope your friends wise up and throw the bums out.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 11, 2020:
Easier said than done.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 11, 2020:
@MissKathleen Oldster?!? Moi?
Ignoring that unintentional slight, yes I suppose you're right.
Being young, such situations, like everything else, are more flexible and fluid. This, it seems to me, CAN be a good thing...or bad...or somewhere in between...
Like even the most basic one-on-one relationships: when young, much more easily entered into, because walls have not gone up, baggage not yet accumulated.
So depending on the luck of the draw, a person who may be reflexively shunned later, may be admitted into a circle of trust, with varying results.
If the result is positive, does that circle get larger; if negative, smaller, until hardly anyone fits inside?
Discrimination can protect one from danger, but can also screen out pleasure and happiness.
Maybe that's why 'oldsters' like us can find ourselves isolated and alone as with the passing of the years, we become fearful of a lot of well-meaning, but 'marginal,' would-be friends we never get to know.
With good reason, oftentimes! But still, it's rather sad, for as with our bones, our outlooks can become brittle and fragile, and our naturally friendly and generous natures may harden, coarsen, and sour.
I say MAY. One can deliberately preserve his or her innocence, and continue to take calculated chances, IF willing to pay the potentially harmful price.
I personally think it's worth it, if risky.
That said, I hope your friends wise up and throw the bums out.
I have come to find agnostic/atheists decrying "know it all" atheists to be nearly as wrong and ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 10, 2020:
@Davesnothere To bypass the fine distinctions and get right to the point, and to speak from a strictly personal point of view (one however I think widely shared by many Agnostics), I am atheistic when it comes to personal, anthropomorphic gods (Abrahamic, Homeric, whatever) because they can be PROVEN (to a 99.9999% certainty) false by simple logic and observation.
However, I am agnostic when it comes to a more abstract god, which wouldn't be describable, definable, or knowable. This may frustrate some atheists, who might say, "If you have no idea what this 'god' might be, then there's nothing to discuss, argue about, or prove or disprove."
Precisely.
Open-mindedness to THIS kind of god would admit wide chasms of ignorance, gaps in our knowledge, science, instruments, and reasoning power which cannot at the present time be bridged.
There ARE circumstantial clues which may point to its existence, however. One obvious (to the point of being trite) are the Gaza pyramids, the precise engineering of which would seem impossible.
Aliens? Evidence of a super-race from an advanced civilization of which we can hardly fathom? One which may have greater knowledge of god, perhaps? I would say so.
YOU may totally disagree. I don't know if or how closely you've looked into this one example, but be that as it may there are numerous clues (I'd say) all around us if we but look, with a skeptical eye, to be sure, but with an open mind.
I completely understand the conventional, mundane, basic arguments atheists use--arrogantly--to dismiss god. I share them, FOR THE OBVIOUS, childish, cartoonish gods promoted by most religions.
But to call themselves agnostic atheists is absurd.
Look, if there is no knowledge, there can be no belief. If you don't KNOW if there is intelligent life on other planets, for instance, you can't BELIEVE IN it.
Of course, EVERYBODY has an opinion. I'd guess most people think it's possible, some, even probable. That's not the same thing.
Another thing: Agnosticist, contrary to your idea of what I'm saying, does NOT belong on a straight line between theism and atheism. Those two 'isms' DO belong on that line, because they are both BELIEF SYSTEMS.
Agnosticism is not a belief system because Agnostics HAVE NO BELIEFS.
Furthermore, this is why, it is my assertion, it is not possible to be BOTH an atheist AND an agnostic. They are mutually exclusive terms. Why can you not understand that?
As a person on that line, you may be 99.9% atheist, but you are still on that line.
As I said, I'm on it with you when it comes to a personal god who takes an interest in my life, answers (or at least listens to) my prayers, and passes judgment on me based on my adherence to certain rules and rituals, and slavish devotion to dogma, etc.
THAT, atheists and many ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 9, 2020:
Atheism is MIS-DEFINED, relative to agnosticism.
By that I mean, the TECHNICAL definition does not equate with the commonly understood one, which holds atheists claim, aver, declare and BELIEVE god DOES NOT EXIST.
ONE CANNOT BE AN AGNOSTIC ATHEIST, PERIOD, any more than one can be atheistic ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 10, 2020:
@Davesnothere To bypass the fine distinctions and get right to the point, and to speak from a strictly personal point of view (one however I think widely shared by many Agnostics), I am atheistic when it comes to personal, anthropomorphic gods (Abrahamic, Homeric, whatever) because they can be PROVEN (to a 99.9999% certainty) false by simple logic and observation.
However, I am agnostic when it comes to a more abstract god, which wouldn't be describable, definable, or knowable. This may frustrate some atheists, who might say, "If you have no idea what this 'god' might be, then there's nothing to discuss, argue about, or prove or disprove."
Precisely.
Open-mindedness to THIS kind of god would admit wide chasms of ignorance, gaps in our knowledge, science, instruments, and reasoning power which cannot at the present time be bridged.
There ARE circumstantial clues which may point to its existence, however. One obvious (to the point of being trite) are the Gaza pyramids, the precise engineering of which would seem impossible.
Aliens? Evidence of a super-race from an advanced civilization of which we can hardly fathom? One which may have greater knowledge of god, perhaps? I would say so.
YOU may totally disagree. I don't know if or how closely you've looked into this one example, but be that as it may there are numerous clues (I'd say) all around us if we but look, with a skeptical eye, to be sure, but with an open mind.
I completely understand the conventional, mundane, basic arguments atheists use--arrogantly--to dismiss god. I share them, FOR THE OBVIOUS, childish, cartoonish gods promoted by most religions.
But to call themselves agnostic atheists is absurd.
Look, if there is no knowledge, there can be no belief. If you don't KNOW if there is intelligent life on other planets, for instance, you can't BELIEVE IN it.
Of course, EVERYBODY has an opinion. I'd guess most people think it's possible, some, even probable. That's not the same thing.
Another thing: Agnosticist, contrary to your idea of what I'm saying, does NOT belong on a straight line between theism and atheism. Those two 'isms' DO belong on that line, because they are both BELIEF SYSTEMS.
Agnosticism is not a belief system because Agnostics HAVE NO BELIEFS.
Furthermore, this is why, it is my assertion, it is not possible to be BOTH an atheist AND an agnostic. They are mutually exclusive terms. Why can you not understand that?
As a person on that line, you may be 99.9% atheist, but you are still on that line.
As I said, I'm on it with you when it comes to a personal god who takes an interest in my life, answers (or at least listens to) my prayers, and passes judgment on me based on my adherence to certain rules and rituals, and slavish devotion to dogma, etc.
THAT, atheists and many ...
Let’s not use words like “whacky” and “bizarre” in describing the religious beliefs of ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 7, 2020:
You got it. That's it in a nutshell.
I personally was baptized as an infant, so I figure I'm covered just in case, even though I don't believe in heaven and hell, on the 0,0001% chance it's true.
I guess that's so having my cake and eating it too, but hey, I didn't make this stuff up, never ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 10, 2020:
@Aristippus You're asking ME?
Okay, let'see....umm...very good question ..excellent question...nope, no clue...do YOU know?
Wait...it's coming to me...the answer just flashed before my eyes........damn, gone again....I'll get back to you on that one...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 7, 2020:
You got it. That's it in a nutshell.
I personally was baptized as an infant, so I figure I'm covered just in case, even though I don't believe in heaven and hell, on the 0,0001% chance it's true.
I guess that's so having my cake and eating it too, but hey, I didn't make this stuff up, never ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 10, 2020:
@Aristippus You're asking ME?
Okay, let'see....umm...very good question ..excellent question...nope, no clue...do YOU know?
Wait...it's coming to me...the answer just flashed before my eyes........damn, gone again....I'll get back to you on that one...
I have come to find agnostic/atheists decrying "know it all" atheists to be nearly as wrong and ...
Varn comments on Jan 7, 2020:
“*As an agnostic atheist*” - now that makes for an ***Oxymoron*** :D
Storm1752 replies on Jan 9, 2020:
@CommonHuman Agnostic atheist is not a 'thing.'
Varn comments on Jan 7, 2020:
“*As an agnostic atheist*” - now that makes for an ***Oxymoron*** :D
Storm1752 replies on Jan 9, 2020:
@CommonHuman Agnostic atheist is not a 'thing.'
What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?
Storm1752 comments on Jan 7, 2020:
I like the Desiderata. It's as close to a blueprint for living I'll ever have.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 8, 2020:
@Mcflewster Good place for it! Reading words of wisdom sitting on the throne.
Thanks. I'll put it there.https://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html
Storm1752 comments on Jan 7, 2020:
I like the Desiderata. It's as close to a blueprint for living I'll ever have.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 8, 2020:
@Mcflewster Good place for it! Reading words of wisdom sitting on the throne.
Thanks. I'll put it there.https://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html
It's the END OF THE WORLD!!!
The New England Patriots lost.
Bierbasstard comments on Jan 6, 2020:
That was expected. Aside from Buffalo stepping up this year they have routinely played in the weakest division for years. It's easy to get a winning record with practically being given 6 wins per year. They began losing when playing teams with winning records and had to resort to trick plays to ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 6, 2020:
Brady should retire. He won't, probably will go to Miami or L.A. to keep Giselle happy.
Bierbasstard comments on Jan 6, 2020:
That was expected. Aside from Buffalo stepping up this year they have routinely played in the weakest division for years. It's easy to get a winning record with practically being given 6 wins per year. They began losing when playing teams with winning records and had to resort to trick plays to ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 6, 2020:
Brady should retire. He won't, probably will go to Miami or L.A. to keep Giselle happy.
I was listening to One of Richard Dawkins books and it surprised me when he said that on his scale ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 3, 2020:
This is a very useful scale, which points out the crucial difference between Atheists and Agnostics.
If 1 is pure theist, and 7 is pure atheist, then 3.5 would be 'pure' agnostic, right?
Wrong. Agnostics don't belong on a 'scale of belief,' because they neither believe nor disbelieve.
So...5.25 ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 6, 2020:
@Omnedon OR they found a way to transfer their consciousnesses into AI bodies and became androids or cyborgs, or come from other dimensions or alternate universes. Maybe they live or headquarter on other planets in our solar system, or have a base beneath the ice in Antartica. Maybe they live among us and we don't even know it.
All kinds of possibilities most people laugh at, like they used to laugh at the possibility the Earth revolves the sun.
It seems to me theists and atheists and countless others in closed belief systems limit their imaginations to what is readily apparent at THAT GIVEN TIME in the evolution of our bodies, minds, and understanding.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 3, 2020:
This is a very useful scale, which points out the crucial difference between Atheists and Agnostics.
If 1 is pure theist, and 7 is pure atheist, then 3.5 would be 'pure' agnostic, right?
Wrong. Agnostics don't belong on a 'scale of belief,' because they neither believe nor disbelieve.
So...5.25 ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 6, 2020:
@Omnedon OR they found a way to transfer their consciousnesses into AI bodies and became androids or cyborgs, or come from other dimensions or alternate universes. Maybe they live or headquarter on other planets in our solar system, or have a base beneath the ice in Antartica. Maybe they live among us and we don't even know it.
All kinds of possibilities most people laugh at, like they used to laugh at the possibility the Earth revolves the sun.
It seems to me theists and atheists and countless others in closed belief systems limit their imaginations to what is readily apparent at THAT GIVEN TIME in the evolution of our bodies, minds, and understanding.
I was listening to One of Richard Dawkins books and it surprised me when he said that on his scale ...
Storm1752 comments on Jan 3, 2020:
This is a very useful scale, which points out the crucial difference between Atheists and Agnostics.
If 1 is pure theist, and 7 is pure atheist, then 3.5 would be 'pure' agnostic, right?
Wrong. Agnostics don't belong on a 'scale of belief,' because they neither believe nor disbelieve.
So...5.25 ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 5, 2020:
@Omnedon The distances involved might be able to be covered, if it's physically possible. I'm no physicist, but just because we can't (yet) doesn't mean it can't be or ISN'T being done.
Storm1752 comments on Jan 3, 2020:
This is a very useful scale, which points out the crucial difference between Atheists and Agnostics.
If 1 is pure theist, and 7 is pure atheist, then 3.5 would be 'pure' agnostic, right?
Wrong. Agnostics don't belong on a 'scale of belief,' because they neither believe nor disbelieve.
So...5.25 ...
Storm1752 replies on Jan 5, 2020:
@Omnedon The distances involved might be able to be covered, if it's physically possible. I'm no physicist, but just because we can't (yet) doesn't mean it can't be or ISN'T being done.
In a couple of my Amazon books I mention the danger of a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Geoffrey51 comments on Dec 26, 2019:
Judaism is still waiting for the first.
And Eastern minds think it’s a strange idea and don’t give a shit one way or the other!
Don’t get where population fits into your hypothesis.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 5, 2020:
@Aristippus The Rapture isn't in the New Testament either.
Geoffrey51 comments on Dec 26, 2019:
Judaism is still waiting for the first.
And Eastern minds think it’s a strange idea and don’t give a shit one way or the other!
Don’t get where population fits into your hypothesis.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 5, 2020:
@Aristippus The Rapture isn't in the New Testament either.
In a couple of my Amazon books I mention the danger of a self-fulfilling prophesy.
bklynite53 comments on Dec 26, 2019:
can you tell me the other major religion that believe this fairy tale? I know one is Christianity but what is the other one. this is a serious question.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 5, 2020:
@powder I don't think the Jews believe in Armeggedon.
That comes from the New Testament's Book of Revelations (which almost didn't make the cut for inclusion in the first place).
bklynite53 comments on Dec 26, 2019:
can you tell me the other major religion that believe this fairy tale? I know one is Christianity but what is the other one. this is a serious question.
Storm1752 replies on Jan 5, 2020:
@powder I don't think the Jews believe in Armeggedon.
That comes from the New Testament's Book of Revelations (which almost didn't make the cut for inclusion in the first place).
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