Trouble for DeJoy? Biden makes new choices for USPS board

mischl comments on Nov 20, 2021:

This is GOOD news AFAIC. Biden certainly took long enough to make a move.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2021:

He sure did! Knowing how much of a corporate tool Biden is, and that since 2006 both parties have been colluding to privatize the Postal Service after first killing it off, I thought there was no way Biden was going to act to stop it. Still, he is maybe only doing it now to help the Dems in the midterms, but I won't believe his effort is for real until DeJoy is actually fired and replaced with someone who supports maintaining a good Postal Service. Corporate Dems like Biden are great at appearing to try to do the right thing or making a fake effort to reform things, and then blaming their secret caving or collusion on the big, bad Repubs, when the real cause is their loyalty to their corporate and rich donors.

[msnbc.com] A good assessment, I think.

dalefvictor comments on Nov 19, 2021:

So what I want to know concerns two topics. First, can a white man now carry an automatic rifle and when he seems someone else with a gun, shoot them just because they might want to shoot him. Second, I would think that the next time Kyle is walking down the street someone could just shoot him out ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2021:

His lawyer said in a post trial interview that he will be moving away from his hometown for his safety, kind of like having to enter witness protection after you are acquitted. I still hope that he is discovered in his new hiding place and gets whacked.

Tweedledee and Tweedledum thinking looking cute will get them some table scraps. 🌭

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on Nov 19, 2021:

Is it working?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2021:

It would with me...

I got stood up by a guy from a dating site.

Santanaman9 comments on Nov 17, 2021:

Pretty lame excuse: "I got tied up at the office". That's older than ME! It suggests that the guy is already in a relationship... and it just out seeing if he can get some "hits". It was good that you "missed" him. Saved yourself torment.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 18, 2021:

I agree. He was probably just out for the ego trip of seeing how many women he could rack up that would agree to meet him, and still get his kicks from standing them up. There are some real sick puppies out there, of both sexes, that get a kick out of standing people up, both from the power trip of feeling in control or superior, and also from being wanted by others. I have heard plenty of stories from the front of there being lots of people who use dating sites simply for entertainment or ego boosts by seeing how many people they can connect with and be attractive to, or how many they can line up to meet them, all with no intention of actually meeting anyone in person, much less actually dating someone. Very sick and selfish.... Probably has a lot in common with porn addictions....

I got stood up by a guy from a dating site.

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 17, 2021:

I feel bad for you, but, as others below have said, boorish behavior, by both sexes, is becoming common with dating sites. I almost felt like giving up when, during a six month period before Covid, I got stood up by four different women. In each case, there was nothing to excuse or tip me off that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 17, 2021:

@Organist1 I think you are right about the male counterpart of resting bitch face. Both types have a cold, hard stare in their pics, and they have no real empathy or warmth for others in their heart. I have tried to learn from that experience with that woman and never message women with only pics like that. In fact, after I confronted her about standing me up, she simply said she forgot about it and didn't even apologize for it. And to think that she is a peds nurse, like you, it kind of chilled my spine... The guy standing next to the sports car sounds like the typical macho sociopath, but what's really sick is that plenty of women would find that look, and the sports car with it, to be a real turn on. There's no accounting for taste....

I got stood up by a guy from a dating site.

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 17, 2021:

I feel bad for you, but, as others below have said, boorish behavior, by both sexes, is becoming common with dating sites. I almost felt like giving up when, during a six month period before Covid, I got stood up by four different women. In each case, there was nothing to excuse or tip me off that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 17, 2021:

@Organist1 Where to start? One woman simply said she forgot about the coffee date, after I got home and confronted her with a message on Match. Another said that she assumed, wrongly, that I had changed my mind about meeting her because four days had gone by since we agreed on the plans and I hadn't messaged her after that to confirm my interest, etc., which to me felt way too much like parenting or being responsible for stroking someone's ego and making them feel important just to get them to keep their word and show up. That woman apologized when I messaged and confronted her, asked me for another chance and I told her I would pass, since I couldn't trust her. The other two, I can't remember why they didn't show, but they didn't express any apology for standing me up. It's cold and brutal out there. I remember that first woman who stood me up was a nurse and all her profile pics showed her never smiling. My younger female friends told me that was a tipoff about her personality, that she had a "resting bitch face" in those pics, so I try to avoid women in the future with that trait. They didn't ghost me, I wouldn't say. They just didn't show, and then we never met later either. I can imagine your former hubby coming out as gay had to feel shocking and like a real betrayal, that would really do a number on your mind. I do think there is a lot of passive aggressive type anger in many of these people, projected onto the opposite sex for things their ex or maybe other men later, have done to them. I never see this sort of behavior from widowed women, probably because their experience with relationships is more positive, so they don't act out against the opposite sex. As far as moving away for a better dating pool, I have had that suggested to me by lots of ignorant people on here, but I would never do it. I don't know about you, but I need the emotional and social support of my local friends way too much to risk moving away for some uncertain prospect of finding a partner while meanwhile I am living in a city where I have no friends or local support system, hoping to snag a long term partner soon after I move there. Much easier and less painful in theory than in practice.

I got stood up by a guy from a dating site.

Secretguy comments on Nov 17, 2021:

I often think how awful it would be to be a twenty something trying to date. But I guess that applies to all ages.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 17, 2021:

@Organist1 Exactly right, Gail. The diff between the younger and older dating pools, is that, with maybe the exception of the widowed, the older pool is mostly rejects and recycled folks, who have good reasons why they are not coupled, usually, like you say, because of either addiction issues or personality disorders, sometimes both, which are long-standing and unlikely to change. That is why I continue to be amazed at how many divorced women seem unwilling to date widowed men, maybe because they fear competition or comparison with a dead woman, who knows? But logically speaking, it would make sense for them to consider the possibility that the widowed men might be better potential partners than another divorced man, unless what the woman is really after is sympathy, understanding about her hurts from her divorce, and a shoulder to cry on. And if that is the case, they really haven't moved on from the divorce, nor are they really ready for another relationship. But that is probably common for people who refuse to get therapy after a divorce.

Here, the surge never ended. In rural California, hospitals are pushed to the brink

BitFlipper comments on Nov 15, 2021:

The title contains the reason: "rural".

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2021:

Why I will never again live in a rural area. I can't stand the hicks, rednecks, their country music, their religion, and their Repub politics.

Here, the surge never ended. In rural California, hospitals are pushed to the brink

silverotter11 comments on Nov 15, 2021:

Same story pretty much everywhere in America, the rural folks are conservative and do not appear to get much news input other than fox, oann, talk radio, etc. Same situation here in eastern WA. Lower vaccination rates, high community spread and hospitals full. The correlation is there - vaccines,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2021:

We can only hope that enough of these ignorant hicks die off and that it allows for our country's politics to regain some sanity.

How the right wants to divide us

racocn8 comments on Nov 14, 2021:

Except that after inheriting the stock market collapse due to marketing fraudulently graded securities, Obama didn't indict a single Wall Streeter. Law and Order thrown out of the window- - and the middle of the end...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 14, 2021:

Agreed. He was a total corporatist and sellout, which made the white working class feel justifiably betrayed, and thus he paved the way for Trump. And Biden is doing the same thing, so we can expect the Dems to lose big in 2022 and 2024, because simply not being Repubs is not enough to get votes from working class people, nor should it be....

Is there somebody for everybody or does everybody settle for somebody

Lauren comments on Nov 3, 2021:

Those are broad, simplistic generalizations there. The number of single people in the world would indicate that not everyone is settling, and the idea that there's one ideal partner for everyone is limiting and unrealistic. If that were the case, how would anyone ever stumble upon their perfect ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2021:

@Lauren Everyone has deal breakers, and within reason, those are a good thing. At the same time, you make a great point in that while we all have deal breakers as to what things make someone a non-match, for us at least, at the same time, we all need to be realistic and pragmatic about both what we bring to the table or have to offer a partner, and also what things we may have to compromise on or tolerate as far as personal differences with a prospective partner in order to be able to find a match within our respective dating pools. And if we are not willing to be reasonable or pragmatic regarding those things I mentioned in my last sentence, then it's likely, as you say, that the person is really not that interested in wanting to share their life with someone or find another partner. And they may even be fully or partly unaware of their ambivalence about it. But in my case, for example, I am a very small minority within my local online dating pool, so, in order to be reasonable and pragmatic, because I really do want to share my life with someone again, I can't afford to have very many deal breakers at all, since the slice of compatible women in my dating pool is so small to begin with, and, on top of that, most of them are well aware that they are part of the majority culture and lifestyle in my dating pool, so they can easily afford to have more dealbreakers than me and be less open to compromise and tolerance of differences. I would love to be able to choose from only women who were politically very lefty, hated country music, were not at all family-oriented, well-educated, above average-looking, non-religious, non-smokers, and who only drank socially. But that is not realistic, and would leave me with practically nobody to choose from, at least nobody that would choose an average-looking bald man with financial security, but not rich by any means. So I have to compromise and tolerate women who like country music some, but not their favorite genre, women who are moderately religious, be open to women who are only average-looking, women who are occaisional smokers, or moderate drinkers, and women with kids who are only moderately family-oriented. Because the alternative, realistically, is either being alone for a long time at the very least, or needing to move away to a better dating pool, which I have already discussed ad nauseum why I won't do it. So if you factor in the necessary pragmatism that must of us, as non-mainstream folks, have to engage in, along with the compromises I mentioned, about all of us end up settling, at least somewhat, whether we realize it or not, unless we get very lucky or are actually not that interested in sharing our life with someone, and still happen to hit the relationship lottery.

SnowyOwl posted a thread about mortality/ethics, and this article discusses whether or or not ...

DenoPenno comments on Nov 13, 2021:

This is true. As for me, I am not worried about morality in any way. You make your own morality in how you deal with others. Discussing it with the religious is a no win situation.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2021:

Morality is proven and tested by actions, not words and beliefs. As Jesus himself said, to paraphrase, "Talk is cheap". And, as a poli sci professor once said, so eloquently, "Until you have power and are tempted to use it corruptly, I don't really know who you are, morally and ethically, because you haven't been tested yet".... Very profound words.

I thought this was a joke but it turns out it’s pretty interesting at least on a Neurological ...

racocn8 comments on Nov 13, 2021:

And that's why many pet-owners have started to give their cats CBD; it helps their depression and bipolar issues.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2021:

We already knew that cats liked getting high, they may even love CBD more than catnip!

I've never been a Taylor Swift fan but this new video I happened upon certainly evokes the accurate ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 13, 2021:

I have seldom had that happen to me, tho I have been dumped plenty of times when I was young. My first real dating experience of length was one where I did feel totally played and abandoned from someone I trusted and thought was solid, but I was very young and naive. It was a very formative ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2021:

@UUNJ Personally, I have never been impressed, at least not positively, by either of them. One song of Mayer's that I particularly hate is his cop-out song regarding protest, Waiting For The World To Change, which is a backlash against Boomers who criticize his generation for being apolitical and apathetic about actually getting out and pushing for change. The song is such a lame, chickenshit response to how much his generation dropped out from politics to escape into their video games and social media, the net, etc., instead of voting or protesting. He is such a wanker, as the Brits would say.

So you know the difference

BitFlipper comments on Nov 10, 2021:

Yes, and on the 11th month, the 11th day, and the 11th hour I'll be attending an event with Veterans For Peace.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 11, 2021:

@BitFlipper I agree you are on the right side, as the Vietnam War was clearly a huge mistake and the first war where the public was told the Big Lie about why we were involved there. I am 63 years old and missed the draft by several years, but I was old enough then in the late sixties to a have begun thinking about what I would do if I was drafted. I decided I would seek CO status, but never had to actually deal with that, as the war and draft ended before I was of age, tho I still had to register for the draft. I like to think if the draft and war had gone on for several more years, that I would have had the guts to act on my convictions. Since then I have opposed every war our leaders have lied us into, including the Kosovo War, and both Gulf Wars, as well as Afghanistan. The all turned out to be mistakes or based on lies, usually both.

Is there somebody for everybody or does everybody settle for somebody

Lauren comments on Nov 3, 2021:

Those are broad, simplistic generalizations there. The number of single people in the world would indicate that not everyone is settling, and the idea that there's one ideal partner for everyone is limiting and unrealistic. If that were the case, how would anyone ever stumble upon their perfect ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 11, 2021:

Well said. You seem way too sensible and sane to be single, but so am I. Too bad almost everybody here lives hundreds of miles apart. And, yet, in my local dating pool on Match, it seems like so many women have a narrow, rigid checklist of traits that a man must meet, or they won't even consider replying to him, much less meeting him in person to see what he's like. I often wonder if it's really because they are too busy to bother putting the time into meeting that many different men, even ones who may differ some way from the woman or vary a bit from their shopping list, or is it because they just have such faith in only seeking men who strictly meet their rigid, narrow list of requirements? So many seem to forget that we are dealing with complex, flawed, human beings, no matter whether they meet the checklist or not, and the only way to be sure, both if they are right for you, or if they are incompatible, is to spend some time and effort at communicating with them and being around them. And irrational as it may seem, few people seem concerned that they might actually miss out on someone compatible and good for them by being too picky or spending too little time meeting those who seem less than a perfect match on paper.

This makes a good point

racocn8 comments on Nov 11, 2021:

The US died decades ago. We're only just now seeing the rot without disguise.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 11, 2021:

The death of democracy began with JFK's murder by the shadow government, that FDR warned us about, the same shadow government that conspired to oust FDR with a military coup. Few Americans are even aware of that event.

So you know the difference

BitFlipper comments on Nov 10, 2021:

Yes, and on the 11th month, the 11th day, and the 11th hour I'll be attending an event with Veterans For Peace.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 10, 2021:

I wish war resisters and peace activists could get the same kind of honor and respect as veterans, since, ironically, they in their way, are doing just as much if not more to support the welfare and protect the lives of the future soldiers and the youth. Instead they are treated as pariahs and unpatriotic cowards, when in fact, they have probably greater love for their country and their fellow man than most of the gung ho soldiers. Their critics are actually not patriots, just people in love with war, authority, and nationalism.

This is what we got

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 10, 2021:

I agree with the gist of that, but unfortunately, when the next elections happen in a years, most voters will only be thinking about how high inflation is and how their personal economics did not improve significantly, and that they did not personally get any promised benefits like child tax ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 10, 2021:

@racocn8 I get that, but most voters are very ignorant of how the fed govt. works and also do not get or think at all in nuances, so they reflexively blame whoever formally holds power in the congress and White House, no matter how much obstruction the Repubs do.

Has everyone been unable to post anything for the past 13 or 14 hours?

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 10, 2021:

So the site is now officially a ghost ship?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 10, 2021:

@Mcflewster It appears to be without one.

That's why we have a problem today

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 8, 2021:

Because inflation continues to eat up worker's wages, while wages have remained stagnant for most since the early 1970s. Meanwhile, productivity has gone way up. Where did all the increased profit and wealth from that go? Not to the workers, but up the chain to the top 1%. They got enormously richer...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 10, 2021:

@callmedubious Socialism seems to work fine in some Euro countries, so I disagree on that. I agree that the ruling class has taken over both major parties here. I believe the system could change without a complete financial collapse, but only if most eligible voters threw off the brainwashing of the corporate media and started voting for third party candidates, like the Green Party, and drained the swamp that way. That is how peaceful revolution could happen. But I am not hopeful that will ever happen, at least not in my lifetime. Most disillusioned Americans instead choose to stop voting, rather than vote for third parties, which is very self-defeating.

The highest paid workers in this country are unionized, don't believe me.

bobwjr comments on Nov 9, 2021:

Have been in unions they are great

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 9, 2021:

Same here, it was the only job I ever had that had good yearly pay increases, great benefits, and where I was able to put away a good amount of money for retirement. Every other job I ever had, I was living hand to mouth and barely scraping by, or not. I was glad and proud to join the union the first week I was on the job, never regretted the union dues I paid, just regretted all the freeloaders who sponged off the union and refused to join or pay dues. I hated that the union still had to represent the freeloaders if they got in trouble with management, as well as how they got the same pay raises and benefits that I got. The only thing the union couldn't do, due to its low membership, was fight for us against shithead managers and bad work conditions.

Andrew Yang says the two-party system fuels extremism: "The people are losing"

Barnie2years comments on Nov 9, 2021:

Until someone who comes up with a way to split up BOTH Parties into at least two or three Parties at the same time with a way to assure that they remain that way, this would be a dangerous move. The Democrats would love to have Trumplicans pull off Republican voters, making it easier to win ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 9, 2021:

Ranked choice voting would solve the whole thing, as then people could vote for third party candidates without having to risk being a spoiler vote, and the same thing with candidates outside the two party system. This would keep both major parties more honest, as they could no longer triangulate and tell their more liberal or conservative voters to just shut up and fall in line, on the assumption they have nowhere else to go or no one else to vote for. I would esp. enjoy watching RCV taking away the argument of that smug prick Rahm Emanuel, who told progressive Dems they were "retarded" and had nowhere else to go but the Dem Party.

A different take, what are your feelings?

Lauren comments on Nov 9, 2021:

I agree that the value is in its abundance, and I can never hear it - or say it - too often. Not just to my partner, but to my kids, my friends, my family. It triggers a sweet swell of emotion each time. Sometimes it triggers other things, too, and that's nice. My husband and I said it every ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 9, 2021:

@Lauren You said it. That's why I have such a hard time relating with and dealing with some of the women in my dating pool from Match, because the majority of them are divorced, rather than widowed, like you and me, so they seem to have so much hurt, cynicism, and distrust of the opposite sex, from all their baggage over their divorce. And it seems like very few of them have every gotten any therapy for their divorce issues. Instead, they just take out their stuff on whatever poor slobs they encounter on the dating sites. And, BTW, them simply having attended a divorce support group or a divorce class after their divorce does not cut it or really deal adequately, in most cases, with all their issues over the divorce. I encounter many divorced women from Match, and I do ask them what help they got after their divorce, and most of them confirm that all they did were the classes or groups, not individual therapy. And it shows.....

A different take, what are your feelings?

Lauren comments on Nov 9, 2021:

I agree that the value is in its abundance, and I can never hear it - or say it - too often. Not just to my partner, but to my kids, my friends, my family. It triggers a sweet swell of emotion each time. Sometimes it triggers other things, too, and that's nice. My husband and I said it every ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 9, 2021:

As a fellow widowed person, I can relate. I think that many divorced people, who have not lost a loved spouse by death, don't relate, and tend to be more callous in how they treat current or potential partners.

That's why we have a problem today

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 8, 2021:

Because inflation continues to eat up worker's wages, while wages have remained stagnant for most since the early 1970s. Meanwhile, productivity has gone way up. Where did all the increased profit and wealth from that go? Not to the workers, but up the chain to the top 1%. They got enormously richer...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2021:

@silverotter11 Sounds like a wise decision. I am the same with my siblings, even the ones that vote Dem and agree me on some politics, because, in the end, there is always conflict between them and me on the status quo, as I am a socialist who opposes continued business as usual capitalism, and my siblings, who are all just fine with the system as it is, will never agree with or accept my views on this as valid and equal to theirs.

A different take, what are your feelings?

itsmedammit comments on Nov 8, 2021:

Saying it frequently does not devalue it. Rather it reinforces the bond.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2021:

Like most things that are said, it all depends on the intentions and motives of the person's speech. If it is to manipulate or placate someone, it has little emotional value or genuineness, while, if it is said honestly, sincerely, and without conditions, then it really is a statement and act of love each time.

Most serial killers are men.

KKGator comments on Nov 8, 2021:

Yeah, not even a little funny. But hey, way to perpetuate misogyny. Well done. 🙄

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2021:

@JonnaBononna Easy for you to say that, JB, but my case of the female serial killer makes my point, the worst possible outcome is the same for either gender, but if you are going to speak only in generalities, of course, women are generally physically weaker, less likely to be able to defend themselves in hand to hand combat without weapons, are generally smaller, etc.. So we all get that, JB, but the fact is most people are harmless in the dating game, tho many are nasty and mean, it seems and that goes both ways with both genders. So I will not concede that there is this huge danger for women in general and that men have no risk at all, relatively speaking, in the dating game, because the mere fact of female serial killers using dating ads proves my point, that both genders are capable of killing others in the dating world. And we all know, without it being said, that women face the possibility of sexual assault from a man they meet in the dating game, but of course, there are also things to do to help avoid that, same with men who might get lured into situations with violent, armed women. Like don't go home with them to their place early on in the dating process, esp. if you have been drinking heavily, etc. Common sense safety measures. Men mainly just face the risk of physical violence, women also face possible sexual violence also. See, I said it all for you so you don't have to state the obvious, JB.

Most serial killers are men.

KKGator comments on Nov 8, 2021:

Yeah, not even a little funny. But hey, way to perpetuate misogyny. Well done. 🙄

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2021:

I agree, lumping serial killers in with gender hatred or resentment is not funny. A book I recently read discussed a woman from long ago who may well have been America's first known female serial killer, possibly the most prolific female one ever. She killed at least 40 men that she lured to her farm with personal ads she placed in newspapers. And to think how bad we consider today's online dating to be, it proves that things have always been dangerous with dating, at least in some cases. Dealing with strangers in the dating world has always had risks, and for both genders, it seems.

That's why we have a problem today

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 8, 2021:

Because inflation continues to eat up worker's wages, while wages have remained stagnant for most since the early 1970s. Meanwhile, productivity has gone way up. Where did all the increased profit and wealth from that go? Not to the workers, but up the chain to the top 1%. They got enormously richer...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2021:

@silverotter11 To most conservatives and Libertarians, their political beliefs are like a religion to them, they will not listen to anything that contradicts their beliefs. They are willfully ignorant, and I decided long ago to not waste my breath, energy, or time on them. I will simply wait and not engage with them, until, if ever, they become deprogrammed thru life experience which finally crashes their belief system such as them experiencing personal poverty or loss of their privilege or standard of living. But sometimes, even that does not wise them up, they just continue with their beliefs and find some scapegoat, like liberals or immigrants, to blame their fate on, instead of their rich masters, who are their real enemies, not me or you, but they never recognize this.

That's why we have a problem today

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 8, 2021:

Because inflation continues to eat up worker's wages, while wages have remained stagnant for most since the early 1970s. Meanwhile, productivity has gone way up. Where did all the increased profit and wealth from that go? Not to the workers, but up the chain to the top 1%. They got enormously richer...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2021:

@silverotter11 I already said why that is, and we both know the answer to the ?, they just don't want to hear it. Besides union membership being only a fraction of what it was back in the 1960s, another factor in inflation rising without wages increasing, is the lack of anti-trust enforcement and the lack of regulation of industries that have become monopolized, such as the oil companies and drug companies,, which allow companies to raise prices as much as they want or to fix prices, while consumers have little or no choice but to pay what they charge.

Anti-Vaxxers are Vaccine Zombies.

racocn8 comments on Nov 5, 2021:

That is how the stupid ones 'own the libs', so they think.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 7, 2021:

Then let them own the Libs from the grave....

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

DenoPenno comments on Nov 6, 2021:

I'm open to anything that does not drastically change my life and I am certainly not looking or a caregiver. Live and let live here.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 7, 2021:

@itsmedammit Glad you at least succeeded in finding and making a couple friends. Joining free groups is fine for that purpose. Paying money for dating sites, tho, is not something done for finding new platonic friends, tho those may end up being an occaisional side benefit. It is not why people join those and if that is all they get out of it, then they are wasting their money, in my opinion.

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

bobwjr comments on Nov 6, 2021:

I get tired with all the elimination of xians and crazies

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 7, 2021:

@itsmedammit Unfortunately, Sharon, in my area, what you are referring to as progressive women, are few and far between in my past experience with Meetup groups. It seemed like the few that were around limited themselves to just attending the Humanist, Atheist, Freethinker groups, etc. and when they did attend those, according to a male friend who went to those, there were few women there, esp. in my age group, and those that did attend appeared to be already coupled, according to him. As far as singles only groups, like you said at the end, I attended one of them for about a year a few years ago, and it was a bust as far as finding anyone to date. I did meet a female platonic friend out of it, but she was the only person in the whole group that I had much in common with or hit it off with. The rest were either not educated or intellectual at all or else pretty dull and boring. The so-called progressive women in my area seem to mostly limit themselves to groups within the local Unitarian church and most of the single ones within that subset don't appear interested in dating, from what I am told by other women at the church.

I was shopping today and the place was filled with xmas stuff, I prefer my commercial holidays with ...

itsmedammit comments on Nov 3, 2021:

Apparently we have been unsuccessful in killing Christmas. Maybe next year.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 7, 2021:

We can always hope. As the saying goes, " If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again...."..

Man imprisoned 45 years for wife's killing is acquitted (America's 2nd longest serving innocent ...

Druvius comments on Nov 6, 2021:

A case like this is why the UK abolished the death penalty. A fellow was hung for murdering his wife, turned out she'd been killed by a serial killer living in the flat below. And police had missed things like a fencepost propped up with a human femur in his garden.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

The death penalty has been discredited long ago in more civilized countries than the US. But unfortunately, too many Americans are stupid enough to buy the con that having a death penalty actually makes them any safer. And Americans also are more into vengence than justice anyway. So pols will always be able to sell the death penalty here in the red states. Another big argument against the death penalty is not only how it is misused against actual violent criminals, but how easily it is abused in dictatorships and authoritarian countries against any political opponents of the ruling government. It is the ultimate punishment and oppression tool in governments that have become lawless.

This is an example of the power of religion?[agnostic.com]

HippieChick58 comments on Nov 6, 2021:

Yeah, that is some f-cked up stuff.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

Yup, sounds about right.

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 6, 2021:

It's funny, Sharon, that you live in the Midwest, same as me, and yet your Meetup groups are dominated by women, totally the opposite of Des Moines.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

@itsmedammit No worries, Sharon. You and I seem good with each other. Notice how below Julie makes up an accusation out of thin air and no accurate reading of my comments about how I am supposedly dissing you below. She is so full of shit and out to make trouble for or with me whenever I disagree with her about women in general and call her out on her BS.

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

Julie808 comments on Nov 6, 2021:

Yes, it's the same in my area, it's mostly women, and a few men, though the numbers are evening out, as men are catching on it's a great way to socialize. I love it because it's a non-threatening way to meet people of all genders, with no expectations as there are with dating sites. The men ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

@Julie808 I wasn't dissing her Julie, and once again, you show your dismissive, careless reading of my comments. Maybe you should start reading them more carefully or show some humility and not comment on my comments. I merely told her that in my neck of the woods, the Meetup groups are very lopsided with men, instead of or opposite of her experiences with Meetup. Maybe I should start deliberately twisting or misreading your comments and accusing you of saying something different than what you write, since you seem to have no respect for accuracy or fairness regarding what I did, write. And if you choose to block me, like Deb 57 did, after calling her out, or in this case, calling you out on your admittedly arrogant attitude of not reading my comments carefully, but still feeling entitled to criticize or disagree with me, then bring it on. I will not miss someone who is so selfish that she feels entitled to broadcast her opinions on my or my thoughts, but feels no obligation to actually read the content fully and carefully, or to be accurate in what she is commenting on. Talk about arrogant.... Nobody died and made you admin. or moderator, Julie.

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 6, 2021:

It's funny, Sharon, that you live in the Midwest, same as me, and yet your Meetup groups are dominated by women, totally the opposite of Des Moines.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

@itsmedammit More like, unlucky me...but I get your snark, Sharon...

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

Julie808 comments on Nov 6, 2021:

Yes, it's the same in my area, it's mostly women, and a few men, though the numbers are evening out, as men are catching on it's a great way to socialize. I love it because it's a non-threatening way to meet people of all genders, with no expectations as there are with dating sites. The men ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

@Julie808 You must have a reading problem, as I make it clear that I don't like having to pursue women all the time and for them to never make the first move. I have no problem with women who are more aggressive, or at least don't expect to be chased. In fact, I think most men welcome that difference, tho they rarely encounter it, esp. here in the Midwest. One thing we can agree on, and I appreciate your honesty on, is that most men and women, including you, decide in a few minutes after the first in person meeting begins, if they have any sexual attraction or interest in someone or if that person is only friendzone material. I am so sick of women who deny this about themselves, or even about other women in general. More candor and honesty, with less denial, would greatly improve the dating game and relations in general between the genders.

Very deep meme

HippieChick58 comments on Nov 6, 2021:

The circle of life

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

Or, as Tony Soprano put it, when his shrink suggested the idea to him, "Yeah, more like the circle jerk of life"...... Had to love Tony's unique take on things....

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

bobwjr comments on Nov 6, 2021:

I get tired with all the elimination of xians and crazies

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

@bobwjr Thank you, I appreciate the validation, esp. before some woman on here like Deb57 comes along to tell me it's all in my head or that my dating pool problems are all in me, rather than with the dating pool or some of the women in it. Oh, wait, Deb won't be doing that because she recently blocked me here on Agnostic and won't be reading this, after I called her out on publicly humiliating me here on the boards last week.

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

bobwjr comments on Nov 6, 2021:

I get tired with all the elimination of xians and crazies

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

It was also my experience with Meetup groups a few years ago, before Covid, that almost all the women were also members of Meetup groups for Christian Singles in my area, so, needless to say, they were unlikely to be open-minded enough to date a non-believer, even if I was willing to accept them, as I have found that people who are part of the majority culture and lifestyle here are seldom willing to compromise or accept someone with differences from them in one or more of these areas. Instead, it has always been a one-way street, where we must accept their differences if we want the privilege of dating one of them.

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

DenoPenno comments on Nov 6, 2021:

I'm open to anything that does not drastically change my life and I am certainly not looking or a caregiver. Live and let live here.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

It's sad and tiresome that so many single women are so defensive and cynical about men in general, leading them to assume that most of us are needing and looking for a caregiver. It would be just as easy for us to assume, in the same negative way, that most of them are just looking for a meal ticket or sugar daddy for them. But I have never dropped into that way of thinking, I just make it clear that I am seeking an equal partner, someone who has their own money, and is not looking for me to always pay her way. And yet, if I make that clear early on in the dating process, instead of leaving it unsaid and paying her way thru all the early meals and dates, then I run the risk of being rejected or friendzoned, esp. by women who are more than a few years older than me, for being "not romantic enough", or not "sweeping them off their feet and pampering them, etc". With these kinds of double standards, you can't win either way, and it often feels hard, DP, to just "live and let live".

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

NoMagicCookie comments on Nov 6, 2021:

What an interesting data point. Reminds me of the exact opposite trend twenty-two years ago when Yahoo had a free singles on-line dating service. In their earlier roll-out Yahoo posted the number of people signed up as classified in their different gender / preference categories. If memory ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

Thank you for confirming my local reality with Meetup groups and validating how my experience with them has been the same as Yahoo's dating service 20 years ago. It's not surprising to me how little has changed, at least here in the Midwest, where little ever changes when it comes to the dating and mating game. Any changes that happen on the coasts, regarding social trends, always involve a long delay before they ever, if at all, make it to Iowa. So it appears that with Meetup, my area is still living the same reality as Yahoo's group long ago. Will probably never change, either.

I am signed up a for a a couple of Meetups, and, as usual, 80 to 90 % of the attendees will be ...

Julie808 comments on Nov 6, 2021:

Yes, it's the same in my area, it's mostly women, and a few men, though the numbers are evening out, as men are catching on it's a great way to socialize. I love it because it's a non-threatening way to meet people of all genders, with no expectations as there are with dating sites. The men ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2021:

Yes, you are generalizing from what you see around you. And I am not looking for a caretaker, by any means. I have my own money and am looking for a woman who is an equal and a partner to be active with, so I don't meet the criteria of the men who come around your group. It appears your local dating pool and mine may as well be on different planets. The men who come around your group may or may not enjoy all the rejection and so called harmless flirting and drama of all the women who have little interests in dating and appear to instead just be hooked on the regular ego stroking and power trips of getting all the welcome attention and always saying no to the suitors, but to me, that would quickly become tiresome as kind of a sick tease. Glad I don't live in your area, tho it sounds like a great arrangement if you are a female with a strong sense of misandry.

Top US Catholic bishop calls social justice movements ‘pseudo-religion’ [religionnews.com]

Beowulfsfriend comments on Nov 4, 2021:

My response to him - bullshit. Some justice movements are, or have been, needed because of fucking religion. Slavery, sexuality, women's rights, etc.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 5, 2021:

You got it. When organized religion consistently focuses only on the afterlife and spiritual development, while neglecting to lead or inspire people to change the here and now for the better, at the societal level as well as the personal level, then social movements are necessary to fill the void. If doesn't like it, tough titty....

Notice how rare and few are the posts here, compared to a few years ago, when this group was formed,...

BitFlipper comments on Oct 31, 2021:

As for me, I don't have any new stories. My expectations are MUCH lower. Rejection is much easier to take, and I just keep plodding along. I really don't expect to meet anyone, so when one is willing to exchange a few messages with me it feels like a success.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 4, 2021:

, @BitFlipper I hear you Dave. As Howard, racocn08, has sagely advised me, none of that matters if there are other guys for the woman to choose, with those same advantages, plus better looks than you or me. Few women will admit it, but looks are just as important to them as they are to men, in the dating game. Neither you or I have above average looks, so as long as there is lots of competition who have that, plus most of our other qualities, we will lose out time and time again.

Notice how rare and few are the posts here, compared to a few years ago, when this group was formed,...

BitFlipper comments on Oct 31, 2021:

As for me, I don't have any new stories. My expectations are MUCH lower. Rejection is much easier to take, and I just keep plodding along. I really don't expect to meet anyone, so when one is willing to exchange a few messages with me it feels like a success.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 4, 2021:

I feel bad for you , Dave, that you have been conditioned to that. I would never be willing to settle for that, even tho my expectations are definitely lower than when I began online dating. I used to assume that divorced women were impressed, in a positive way, by men who were widowed and had never been divorced, but instead, I learned that most of them are irrational, at least on dating sites, and only interested in those who have as much as possible in common with them, including being divorced, having kids, being religious, and drinking at least moderately. All which sounds like people who are very insecure about who they are and wanting to stick with the familiar, even if that means missing out on people who might actually be healthier, better at relationships than divorced people, and possibly even a better match for them. For most, it seems, maintaining a narrow comfort zone is more important than success in future relationships, which to me, is a sign that they never got the post-divorce therapy they badly need.

Agnostic. MIA: Missing in Administration.

David1955 comments on Nov 3, 2021:

The time to really start worrying is if the site just disappeared never to return. Where else we'd all hook up I just don't know.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 4, 2021:

There is already a FB of people who left here or, in the case of the group's creator, got booted out of here. Ironically, I joined there a while back, at the invitation of a couple members of the group, but Jo Slaight, the one who got booted out of here, kicked me out of her group a few weeks after I joined. Funny how those things work. Personally, I think she just enjoyed the power trip of being in charge of that group and getting to compensate and make up for getting kicked out of here, so she used her power to do that to me. Personally, David, if this site went poof, I would undoubtedly miss it for a while, but I would eventually get over it.

Agnostic. MIA: Missing in Administration.

KKGator comments on Nov 3, 2021:

While I can't say for sure, not having an active Admin hasn't seemed to be much of a problem. Site support is still available, isn't it? The increased concern over Admin's seeming lack of participation is relatively new to me. Are there issues I'm unaware of, which require Admin's attention?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 3, 2021:

Personally, as long as someone is doing regular maintainence of the site so it doesn't crash, I couldn't care less about an absent admin., esp. if it reduces needless moderation and sanctioning of members by whiny, conservative snowflakes who can't take verbal combat like real men, and instead run crying to the admin. after they start shit on the boards. The only other function I can think of is to remove scammers from here after they have been reported. I reported one today and that username is now gone, but that may or may have not been the doing of site admin. or site support, since I told the party that I was reporting them and they would be booted out, so the scammer may have beat them to the punch. Who knows?

Is there somebody for everybody or does everybody settle for somebody

Julie808 comments on Nov 2, 2021:

I see it every day in my line of work as a wedding officiant. I think outgoing people who cross paths with lots of like-minded people have a better chance at finding love than introverts (like me) who don't venture out all that much, and surely don't make eye contact or initiate conversations ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 2, 2021:

You can do all the self improvement you want or any other kind of work to radiate more happiness, but if your situation only allows few opportunities to meet other single people, it either won't matter a damn bit or at best will probably take a long time in order for you to meet someone compatible. As someone said to me long ago, dating is, more than anything else, a numbers game, as far as success or failure. Effort and method, of course matter some, but with shitty numbers, as far as prospects or opportunities to meet other singles, it's very unlikely to happen anytime soon. I guess if one wants to rely on very limited meeting opportunities, that's their business, but they'd better plan on a long wait, unless they get lottery -type lucky with one of their early prospects.

Newsflash! Jesus has resurrected a second time! I know this because yesterday, I saw a huge ...

mischl comments on Nov 2, 2021:

How can that be? Jesus showed up right on time today and mowed my lawn. I said buenos dias to him (he's from Ecuador and doesn't speak much English), and he waved back. Oh, and because this is the first Tuesday of the month, he brought his wife (Maria) to trim the booshes.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 2, 2021:

Smartass...

Newsflash! Jesus has resurrected a second time! I know this because yesterday, I saw a huge ...

MyTVC15 comments on Nov 2, 2021:

I wonder how many gold pieces he charges for such a performance.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 2, 2021:

BeJeezus, I always thought he worked for free, including the water into wine magic show.... This inspires so many take off jokes on this from Monty Python's Life Of Brian...... Unfortunately, many of these folks wouldn't know Jesus, even if he actually existed, if he came up and bit them on their pecker or their ass, depending on their gender...

Is there somebody for everybody or does everybody settle for somebody

Sticks48 comments on Nov 2, 2021:

I believe there are a lot of somebodys for most people. Finding them is the tricky part. 🙃

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 2, 2021:

@twill You make a good point. My own parents were miserable together much of the time, but they stayed together, I can only assume, for the so-called good of the kids, the morality of the church, and the traditions of their generation. Nowadays tho, there is no stigma for divorce like back then, so I can only assume that most couples these days, esp. people in my dating age range, stay together because they want to and still get along, since by my age the kids are already grown and long gone in most cases, since I am talking about women who are at least 55. Misery-causing people do seem to be able to find partners again, if they are women who have the looks or men who have the looks and/or money. I also believe that, in adult relationships, divorce is seldom 100% the fault or responsibility of just one partner, as adult relationships are entirely voluntary, unlike membership in a family you are born into. We all usually play some part in why our adult relationships, including friendships, end or fail. Adult relationships are usually too complex to be solely one person's fault or success. So I must disagree, that dating widowed people in general, rather than coupling up with divorced people, may be a better bet for finding someone who is healthier emotionally and more functional. Of course, everyone needs to evaluate potential partners as individuals and go case by case. I am just speaking in generalities, for purposes of discussion. And as far as your "C'mon, man", expression, who are you, Joe Biden, lol?

Is there somebody for everybody or does everybody settle for somebody

Sticks48 comments on Nov 2, 2021:

I believe there are a lot of somebodys for most people. Finding them is the tricky part. 🙃

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 2, 2021:

Esp. if you are at a point in life where about the only network left for you to meet singles is dating sites. Because then, as another member here told me privately over the phone, you are dealing only with people that usually have issues, except for maybe the widowed, and the rest are mostly the dregs, so to speak, of the dating pool, instead of the more healthy and functional people, who are usually taken and coupled already., And, as he said, in that situation, you really do end up having to settle for someone who will be a challenge all the time in the relationship, or else accept being alone. Pretty fatalistic and pessimistic, but he may well be right.

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

twill comments on Oct 29, 2021:

A fair number of the women don't hang around long, I've noticed. Nothing scientific, just what I have noticed. Might be the same with the men? As barjoe wrote, it seems to be a community with a core of regulars, both sexes/ genders. That's good enough for me. But ya just never know what might ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 1, 2021:

@twill My regular distance limit is 55 miles away. If I have to drive more than an hour to meet them, I consider it LD dating, which never allows for anything spontaneous as far as getting together, and that is a minus.

A lot of silent M's in the world these days. :/

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 30, 2021:

I have been a non-conformist, who seldom follows the herd or mainstream, for about all of my adult life, once I developed the confidence and strength to trust my own judgement, over assuming the majority is always right or better than the minority, as most people unfortunately do. I hate the idea of...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 31, 2021:

@Castlepaloma Guess I don't have your looks, so I have little luck with women who care about the man's social status based on occupation. My financial status has not been issue, at least not by itself, with any women that I know of on Match. Sucks to be me, rather than you, I guess.

A lot of silent M's in the world these days. :/

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 30, 2021:

I have been a non-conformist, who seldom follows the herd or mainstream, for about all of my adult life, once I developed the confidence and strength to trust my own judgement, over assuming the majority is always right or better than the minority, as most people unfortunately do. I hate the idea of...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 31, 2021:

@Castlepaloma Now that I've been retired for a few years, you would think that women in the dating game, esp. ones who are also retired, would care nothing at all about what you did for work before that, whether it was a garbage collector or a lawyer, but you would be wrong. A great many of those single women who are educated, white collar professionals, as well as some who are not, care deeply about dating only men with high status careers, either currently or before they retired. Just as chauvinist men seek to date and marry only trophy women who are eye candy, there is an equal number of women who only date and marry similar "success" object men or trophy men, that they can show off and brag about to their friends and family. Objectification in the dating game goes both ways, but few of those women will admit it and many of their sisters in the gender will excuse it as just being fair play to mimic what men have been doing for centuries. But that is hardly fair to the men like me that get passed over for it. And trust me, these are women who probably have a lower net worth than me, and would know it if they gave me a chance for them to get to know me, but for them it's not about financial status, it's about social status, even if I have the money to live, travel, and enjoy entertainment at their same economic level without needing for them to level up or help me pay my way on that stuff, which is why most people choose partners who are on the same financial level as them.

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

Julie808 comments on Oct 30, 2021:

You might try Bumble. The last 2 hetero couples I married who met online, did so through Bumble, which allows the female to choose who she wants to contact, so it saves time from weeding through incompatible prospects, and feels safer for the female.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 31, 2021:

@twill I seriously hope it works for you, man. I refuse to get a smartphone, so that probably shuts me out of using that app., right Julie? Anyway, I browsed the site, and the photos suggest it's pretty much for younger folks instead of my age group.

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

Organist1 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

There are no men on the East Coast here that I know of. It's frustrating.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@Organist1 You've got it, Gail. We need partners who are independent and open-minded, and in my dating pool most of the women are so family-oriented, as they call it, that they would never think of being independent or balanced in their relationships with their families, much less with their partner. So I simply don't fit in with the mainstream lifestyle and culture of most women in my dating pool. The men here are likely, as you say, of the same mentality as the women, but I can only guess on that.

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

Organist1 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

There are no men on the East Coast here that I know of. It's frustrating.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@Organist1 Thanks for your perspective. I need to hear from women that are not so picky, narrow-minded and traditional like all the farmer's daughter types that dominate my dating pool. Most of them would never accept a man who wants to split expenses evenly from the beginning of dating, etc. They still expect the man to pay everything from the first meeting on, at least for a while, or else they feel he is either too cheap for them, doesn't appreciate them as important or is not romantic enough, etc. and all other kinds of reasons to reject him as not having the right chemistry or any physical attraction for him as he is "treating them too much like a friend". I think their attitude is bullshit, since all of them seem to have as much money as me and have their own money to spend. I won't play their games or jump thru all their hoops. Your new guy sounds like a man after my own heart. He sounds like a cool, honest, down to earth guy. I hope it works out for you both. I think the key is to find someone as open-minded as we are, but they are few and far between, at least on paid dating sites, in places like Iowa, where conformity and acceptance is everything to most people who grew up here.

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

Organist1 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

There are no men on the East Coast here that I know of. It's frustrating.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@Organist1 Same with me, in my years here on Agnostic, I have made several female friends that I would love to try dating if they lived in my area, and vice versa, but neither of us, in each case, are really that interested or willing to try dating hundreds or more miles apart. with the odds of LD dating succeeding being so slim. Realistically, dating needs to be 100 miles or less apart to begin with. and even then, only if early on there is a clear and mutually agreeable plan for one of the parties to eventually move to where the other lives, even if it's not living together. Your reasons for rejecting me, totally appropriate and reasonable as they are, are quite different than what keeps squashing me in my dating pool, maybe because you are more open-minded and less rigid than women in my dating pool. My physical condition is fair to good for my age, and my education level is high, but my rejection by women is mostly about cultural and lifestyle traits the women are so rigid and picky about. They only want family men with kids, men who drink moderately or more, and men who are religious, like them. It's funny how your standards are so different and so less narrow than theirs.

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

BitFlipper comments on Oct 30, 2021:

Maybe all those females have found partners.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

Could well be true, Dave, but I kind of doubt it. Non-believer, non-conformists, that most of us are, it usually takes a lot of luck and time to find compatible partners, esp. if you are older and no longer part of the usual networks that used to connect you to other singles: work, school, single friends, church. By our 60s, most of us don't have any of those in our lives much, if any at all, as non-believers, so that pretty much leaves bars and dating sites. And, at least for me, the quality of singles in bars these days is pretty bad. Plus, I don't drink, and only visit bars for live music and to sing karaoke. And meeting people to date thru bars involves having some skills or game, as the kids call it, in selling yourself to women, etc., and by now I zero courage or confidence in doing that to some strange woman I meet there that may, for all I know, be really drunk, only friendly to me because she is loaded, as I, being a non-drinker who doesn't hang around with any heavy drinkers, am pretty clueless when some people are loaded. And even if the woman was friendly to me and it was the alcohol supplying the friendly vibe, I wouldn't be interested, as she likely is promiscuous, and may well be carrying STIs. The book I'm reading about the history of seeking love in America, quoted a 2019 Stanford U. study that found that out of hetero couples, 39% met thru dating sites or dating apps, 27% thru bars or restaurants, 20% thru friends (and probably mainly or exclusively other single friends-most of us older folks have only married friends who don't know any singles), and 11% thru work. That leaves 3% misc. sources, most likely chance encounters at public or private events, public facilities, transportation encounters, etc. It would be really interesting to see either a study of how hetero couple met that was either exclusively people in their 60s and 70s when they met, or some other kind of study that teased out how the methods of meeting, as general trends, differ according to the age of the singles when they met. I bet as people get older, say 50s or older, church and dating sites become an even higher % of cases for how people met. So that pretty well leaves me with just the 39% dating sites option.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

twill comments on Oct 28, 2021:

With online dating we all end up seeing depressing patterns. I might soon be diving back in. Wish me luck if I do

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@twill In a nutshell, yes, it seems to be. Or, as Deb put it, it's a jungle. Either way, it is brutal, competitive, and most people in it seem to have very calloused hearts, whether their skin is similarly thick or not.

Now posing for his first encounter from behind

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 30, 2021:

I can only hope, but I doubt he will get sent to a real, as they say in Office Space, "Pound me in the ass, prison"......

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@bobwjr Do they make those, that cover the cornhole in the rear, lol? Like Peter Gruber's neighbor says in Office Space, "You make sure to watch out for your cornhole....".

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

Organist1 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

There are no men on the East Coast here that I know of. It's frustrating.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@Organist1 Gail, I really think the problem is nothing about you personally, just that, like me, you are a poor match for your particular local dating pool, whether it's here on Agnostic, or a regular paid site like Match. We misfits just don't mesh with the mainstream culture and lifestyle, in most cases, of the majority of singles our age in those local dating pools, on any site. And you are also right about many, if not most men in our age group. Personally, I think they are wasting their time by always chasing younger women on dating sites who, realistically, are never going to want them, unless the man is very financially well-off or good-looking. And anyway, in that first one, that is really more of a business transactional relationship, which none of us here want anyway. I have heard plenty of stories on here and from women on Match that so many men in their 60s or early 70s are not wanting to date anyone their own age, or esp. anyone even a few years older, still chasing younger women in vain, unless they are just wanting sex from women their own age or a little older as a casual, temporary thing, on the assumption that women in that age range are desperate and lonely, waiting to be used and discarded.

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

Organist1 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

There are no men on the East Coast here that I know of. It's frustrating.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

That is really surprising, since that region is so less religious than the Midwest or the South, so you would think that Agnostic.com would have a decent number of compatible non-believing men for you to connect with. I am sorry to hear that. As far as compatible women in my age group, I searched the Nearby Members list from your profile page, and found only one woman with a 50% or more compatibility rating that was still active on the site, so, if the men are anything like the women on Agnostic for that region, you're right, the cupboard is pretty bare....

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

Julie808 comments on Oct 30, 2021:

There are definitely lots of females who visit the site regularly, but they might not be in your geographic area and/or might not be seeking a romantic partner. My first thought when joining this site was to meet people near me, but of the dozen or so who signed up in my geographic area, they ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

Almost all the women in my whole state of Iowa are level 2 or less, because they quickly saw it was not a dating site for them, at least not with any local options for that, so they soon left rather than participate in the site and move up in levels. And I did try spreading the word about this site after I joined, mentioning it to people at the local Unitarian church and also talking it up to everyone a few years ago at the annual Pride Festival booth for the Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers group, but nobody from either group ever joined here. So, you can lead a horse to water, but.........

I had hoped this would be a place to find a female partner, but all the profiles I look at, their ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 29, 2021:

Same situation here. In my local area, or even my whole state, almost all of the women joined some time ago, back when Agnostic's founder was frequently advertising the site on FB, but it seems all those women took a quick look at the site, saw there were no local men to date, at least none they ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@Seeker55 Glad you took it as I meant it, which was not being harsh, just honest and realistic with a touch of humor.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

@Deb57 I feel sad to hear you say that Deb, because the story is 100% true, whether you believe it or not. And, to be honest, since we will never meet in person or date, it really doesn't matter much to me in the long run if it seems credible to you or not. My friends here where I live all know way better than you that it's the truth, as they knew me before I was widowed and still do after. What do you really know about me, Deb? Hell, according to your own past words, if I remember correctly, you have been married and divorced four times, and wouldn't, according to your own words, know if a man was good or healthy emotionally or not, because you have been wrong so many times. So, while I wish you felt more positively about me, I consider the source, and don't put much stock in your judgement, since even you have invalidated it in the past. Please keep your future judgements about me to yourself, Deb, or I will block you. I am tired of your constant criticism and negative judgement of me on this forum, and I doubt most other people here see it as fair and valid either, or they would be weighing in on your side. Ever think about that aspect, Deb? You really do seem somewhat callous and lacking in empathy, Deb, which is funny for someone who in the past has, herself, repeated the same tales of cruelty by your former husbands. I am one for one on successful LTRs with my one good marriage, How about your record, if you feel you have so much qualification to judge me, Deb? Ever notice how nobody has jumped in to record an emoji of agreement with you or me about this dispute, Deb? Nor have they posted any comments of agreement or disagreement. Why do you feel the need to publicly humiliate me here? Just because an unpopular story, at least to some, is repeated, does not make it automatically untrue. Check your logic on that, Deb. Like all of us on this forum, Deb, I have the right to speak my truth, to my opinions, and to my feelings. And you, on this thread, have continually shown little respect or compassion for any of those... Who died and made you moderator or judge for this forum?

And greed at it’s worst.

19dacar52 comments on Oct 28, 2021:

Corporations and billionaires, the real "deep state".

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 30, 2021:

As George Carlin used to say, they are the true owners of America, and we will never be part of their club, so shut up and pay your taxes, suckers, as you don't matter and the elections are just a charade for show, to make you think you still live in a democracy....

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

@Deb57 One bitter truth, I must admit, Deb, is that when I first began online dating, I still had this fantasy, belief, or delusion, that having been in only one LTR, a marriage that was long, happy and successful, ending in widowhood, would somehow be impressive enough to most women in the dating pool on Match, that they would be fairly interested in me and that I would not have anything like the struggles I have had to find even a few women who were compatible enough and mutually interested enough to end up meeting up or dating more than a couple times. Boy, did I quickly discover, not only how mismatched I was for the vast majority of the women in my dating pool, esp. in their eyes, but I also found that, even tho my relationship history and track record were seemingly superior, as a widower who was one for one with successful LTRs, that it cut no ice with or impressed most of the women on Match, even the divorced women and probably esp. them, because they have always seemed to mainly prefer men who were divorced like them, illogical as that seems. My guess is probably that they prefer fellow divorced folks as potential partners, because they assume widowed men either don't understand their divorce experience enough, can't empathize adequately, etc. or that widowed men are all still hung up on their dead wives or will never accept another woman, etc. Either way, to me, those attitudes and assumptions, wrong tho they may be about widowed men by divorced women, prove my point that probably way too few divorced women seek and receive competent therapy after their divorce, so they prefer men who are divorced so they can get some of that sympathy and understanding they failed to get from a therapist after their divorce. Such is life and nothing I can do about their bad, wrong choices on any of that, not seeking therapy, and choosing to try again only with men that also share their history of failed relationships and probably bad relationship skills and qualities..

Notice how rare and few are the posts here, compared to a few years ago, when this group was formed,...

Wangobango3 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

I know two couples who may have gotten their start on this site. I had an amazing romance with a woman I met on POF. It only ended because she had a virulent form of lung cancer that killed her in a matter of a few months. I met my current partner on a dating site although we had met in RL decades...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

@Wangobango3 For what it's worth, I keep up with this site pretty regularly, and between you and all the rest of those who have posted comments on couples from here, we still have ended up with only a handful of couples total who met here, so it is still piss poor as a dating site. I do agree with you that your region is way less religious than the US, so that might help this place as a dating site or connection in general among non-believers for dating than in the US.

Notice how rare and few are the posts here, compared to a few years ago, when this group was formed,...

Wangobango3 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

I know two couples who may have gotten their start on this site. I had an amazing romance with a woman I met on POF. It only ended because she had a virulent form of lung cancer that killed her in a matter of a few months. I met my current partner on a dating site although we had met in RL decades...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

Good for you. Your experiences with online dating, both here and on other sites, beats the hell out of mine. And, BTW, two couples out of the several thousand that have come here, joined, then left or even stuck around since this site was formed, is a piss poor drop in the bucket, in my mind. So BFD that a few met someone right on here. Whoop-de- freakin'-doo.

Notice how rare and few are the posts here, compared to a few years ago, when this group was formed,...

HippieChick58 comments on Oct 29, 2021:

The pandemic kinda slowed things down a bit. Maybe it will pick back up as things improve.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

The pandemic is not likely a factor anyway, at least I don't think so, as it kept people at home and isolated them. If anything, it probably caused most people who hadn't already left this site, to spend MORE time on here than before. And anyway, the worst of the pandemic is already over, so if that were a factor, it would have already picked up. So I must disagree, Paula.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 25, 2021:

That is a hard ? to answer, because so much depends on what other options or resources an individual person has for meeting compatible singles to date. Another variable is how important said search is to the person's life, as in, do they have lots of friends, family, children or grandchildren that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

@twill Well, I have to say, I appreciate hearing that. Esp. after Deb, below, keeps taking me to task for everything I say here. I have had enough bashing here from her.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

twill comments on Oct 28, 2021:

With online dating we all end up seeing depressing patterns. I might soon be diving back in. Wish me luck if I do

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

If you do, maybe it will give you a better appreciation of my situation and why it is so tough to take the risk of moving away to a new city, and leaving your whole network behind, esp. after you have been beat down emotionally for a few years already by online dating. I wish you well, but your experience is likely to be much like mine, except you do have the much better dating pool of Chicago, compared to Des Moines, like me. I bet what you will find is that, while there are many more women in your area, and probably also a higher % of them being without kids, not wanting only men with kids, not wanting men who are religious, at the same time, you are going to have even more competition for those women on the dating site, from other men who are non-believers, than I do here, so in a way, it may be a wash or even out between your dating pool and mine as far as finding success. Another member here, EyesThatSmile (Marianne) told me a while ago that one of the problems with dating sites is that even if you are compatible with some of the few women out there in your local dating pool that are a match for you and are on a paid site, to actually find a partner and start dating them, you still have to win the "competition" at that time between you and any other compatible men, for her, that are active on the site the same time you and the woman are there as members, and I now realize quite well what she meant. She told me that "you don't want to deal with all of that competition, Tom", because she knew that with my lack of confidence, or "game" for selling myself as a dating partner to women, combined with my only average looks, that I would usually lose out to some other guy on the dating site that had somewhat better looks and more game than me with a woman, even if both of us were compatible with her. So few people in online dating seem to realize, much less admit, that competitive aspect of the format, compared to organic dating, where the woman usually isn't connecting with or seeing other men the same time you meet her, so that, in that format, compatibility is much simpler. You either meet the woman's general, established preferences or standards, and if you pass those tests and she seems to enjoy seeing you, then you are off to the races for dating steady, assuming she is generally interested in doing that in the first place, rather than just parallel or casual dating, where she is seeing multiple men, playing the field, or maybe just wanting FWB arrangements with more than one man. Of course all of this may be equally true with men as well for how they screen and select women, but I kind of doubt it.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 25, 2021:

That is a hard ? to answer, because so much depends on what other options or resources an individual person has for meeting compatible singles to date. Another variable is how important said search is to the person's life, as in, do they have lots of friends, family, children or grandchildren that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

@twill I choose staying put, tough as it is, because moving away with no safety net of local listeners, like the friends and therapist, are what helps me cope with the emotional rollercoaster of online dating. I feel very certain that if I removed myself from them by moving hundreds of miles away, not knowing anyone where I moved to, at least for most of a year, let's say, would be emotionally devastating and pretty likely to make me depressed enough to become suicidal within less than a year, so it really would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I am not willing to gamble like that with my life and my mental health, much as I may be already suffering now. And remember, there are no garauntees that dating would work out and succeed in a better city soon enough to get me a new, compatible partner there, and make up for what support I left behind here. It is a much easier gamble to make when you are someone else making armchair quarterback judgements on another person's life. You are risking nothing yourself in urging me to move away. You are basing your advice more on theory, while I know myself better than anyone else and I am basing my decision on personal history, facts, and my unique knowledge of how I am wired, compared to other people who might do better in making that move rather than staying put.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 25, 2021:

That is a hard ? to answer, because so much depends on what other options or resources an individual person has for meeting compatible singles to date. Another variable is how important said search is to the person's life, as in, do they have lots of friends, family, children or grandchildren that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

@twill That is what I wrote. What you didn't seem to appreciate is that all I have, as far as a support system, is here in the Des Moines area. If I moved away, I would have nothing for a support system locally, just friends back in Des Moines available only by phone or e-mail, which would be very inadequate for me, emotionally. If I did move away for a better dating pool, it would probably be Minneapolis or Chicago.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 25, 2021:

That is a hard ? to answer, because so much depends on what other options or resources an individual person has for meeting compatible singles to date. Another variable is how important said search is to the person's life, as in, do they have lots of friends, family, children or grandchildren that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2021:

@twill Did you just skip over reading the part about my family and that my friends here are my whole support system, twill? I am going to guess that your reading skills are fine and that you are simply mentally obtuse, like the warden in The Shawshank Redemption. You most likely lack any basic empathy and that's why you made such an ignorant and stupid judgement and suggestion. Why should I move and leave my whole support system behind on the blind hope that moving to a better dating pool, without even knowing anyone in my new city, will turn out to be successful in finding a partner, while meanwhile I get to be lonely and isolated from my support system as far as in person contact? You clearly have no appreciation of my present emotional reality or what it is like to risk jumping from the frying pan in to the fire, so to speak, emotionally, by leaving behind one's emotional support system for a new location and starting over socially from scratch. It is also not that easy at my age, already retired, and seldom attending even a UU church, to make new friends, esp. not knowing anyone to start with in a new town. Or, more likely, you are just a troll that likes to drop a stupid, judgemental quip, with no real intent to help, just so you can start an argument......

Yeah they grew up to be trumpers

JacarC comments on Oct 28, 2021:

NO::: almost all Karens are progressives.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 28, 2021:

Totally disagree. All the fellow progressives I have known or heard from, are very sympathetic to fellow wage slaves, esp. wait staff at bars and restaurants, as well as retail stores. Most of them won't even go to a Wal-Mart, out of guilt and sympathy for the poor workers there. So there is no basis for your accusation, it's all just conservative, or more likely, Libertarian fantasy in your head, JC. You may also be confusing real progressives with sellout, Dem Party liberals, but they are very different groups....

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 28, 2021:

@Deb57 Maybe, maybe not. I do know that I was very lucky to have met my late wife, and that she was, tho not perfect, nobody is, an exceptional woman. But I also have to believe that she is not the only compatible woman for me, and that there is someone still out there that is single, in my local dating pool. But, yes, I do despair that I may well either never meet her, thru online dating, since it appears that most women like that have given up on dating or at the very least, like you, Deb, won't use online dating. If that is the case, I will likely never meet her. The other reason I may never meet someone like that again, is that online dating is, whether people recognize it or not, also a competitive process, where even if someone is compatible for you, you are competing with hundreds of other men they are seeing profiles of at the same time. So it is not like organic dating, where you are usually meeting a woman offline, who is probably not seeing anyone else, and you are only needing to measure up to her general standards for her to begin dating you. In online dating, you not only need to be compatible with her and your standards, but you have to stand out enough against the competition at that given point in time, for her to choose you among the men she is connecting with at that time. So being compatible with her at that time that you meet, is not enough, at least in the online dating scenario, you also have to be the winner among the competition at that time. This, of course, applies to both sexes in online dating, and only to those who choose to seek exclusive, commited relationships as their goal in online dating, rather than just a number of compatible people to date at the same time casually. At least in my local dating pool on Match, it appears that the vast majority of women are seeking the former goal, rather than the latter, in their search for people to date.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 28, 2021:

@Deb57 We'll have to disagree on that, Deb. It would be nice tho, at least in my eyes, to get to change places for a little while, at least, as I think many women lack empathy for what men have to deal with in the dating game. And I have heard plenty from women, including you, about their side of it. And I think I can honestly say that I probably have more empathy for their situation than they have for my side, tho I know you are not going to agree with that.

Time to stop this

JonnaBononna comments on Oct 28, 2021:

If I was still on Facebook and posted that (and I would), it would be taken down and I'd get a ban. Almost every time I've gotten a Facebook ban it's been for speaking negatively about white people.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 28, 2021:

Guess you strike a nerve when you challenge white privilege on there.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 27, 2021:

@Deb57 I may well be wrong Deb, but rest assured, the women who are above average looking, at least in the online dating game here in the Midwest, are able to do exactly that, sit back and never have to pursue the men on the dating site. And if they had to live in my shoes, they might have a whole different perspective about the dating game and how easy or hard it is to do the pursuing and not come off, as you say, impatient or desperate, etc. Much easier to say and judge when you don't have to pursue much, if any, of the time. And I have had this confirmed many times that women who are above average looking get tons of messages from men, some high quality, some low quality, but my point is that it gives them the opportunity to meet several new men each week, keep their dating skills sharp, feel like they have the pick of the litter, as the men keep chasing them, one man after another, and thus they can sit back much more comfortably in the first in person meeting feeling like they hold all the cards, the same way an employer does in the dreaded traditional job interviews that I so hated before I was retired and they sat behind the desk holding all the cards, keeping all their agenda and judgements to themselves, until I got the final verdict, if ever, of being hired or not. I hate that kind of powerlessness and inequality, and I don't miss it a damned bit being retired. Too bad I still have to suffer that in in the dating game.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 27, 2021:

I would love to have the luxury of being a female, with above average looks, living in a dating pool where the social norms allowed me to simply sit back and let men do all the pursuing of me in the dating game, because in that position it is so easy to judge and assume things about the man, which may be totally wrong if they gave him the chance to prove himself and get to know him over time, instead of maybe making some allowances for being lonely, awkward, etc. in his approach. Can you honestly say that women would always or even usually do any better if they had to do the pursuing? Maybe some greater empathy and more realistic expectations, by the woman, would be a better solution to the situation. Because too many women want a man with lots of smooth confidence, or "game" with women, as the kids call it, and yet they also want a man with sensitivity, empathy, a kind heart, honesty, etc. and the fact is, you are seldom going to get all that in one person. So they instead choose the asshole who is self assured, but proves later to have few other positive qualities.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 27, 2021:

@Deb57 So you are saying Deb, in as polite a way as possible, that you think I come off as desperate? Maybe so, maybe not, but you have never been there with me in person for a first in person meeting from a dating site, so how can you honestly know? I really think it is more of simply not fitting the compatibility requirements of my dating pool, on drinking, kids, religion, etc., because I very seldom even get to a first in person meeting in the last six months, as the messaging usually brings up dealbreakers, mainly on their end, sometimes on my end, so the meeting part doesn't even happen. I respect your mind and you have the right to your opinion, Deb, but I think you are wrong here and maybe even projecting a bit onto me from other men you have encountered. Sorry, I will not try to approach women in the asexual manner you are recommending, because, if anything, I already come off too asexual or androganous to most women, from what I have been told. As for being impatient online, I have always been pretty patient about meeting women in person after about always trading some messages, but I have also made it clear to them that I don't want to end up a texting or phone buddy, nor do I want to waste their time or mine by not meeting up in person or video chatting within a couple weeks or less from first connection. And I can tell you that most women in online dating respect and understand that, as their time is valuable too and they don't want to delay it too long and waste time on someone who will never be more than friendzone material. I also, in that messaging, make it clear that I am flexible about waiting on someone who is still employed, and or exceptionally busy. So I must respectfully disagree. The problem is much more about my dating pool than my behavior or approach. The last woman I met in person, twice in three days time, gave me lots of compliments on my interesting personality, gentlemanly behavior, etc, and said she would really like to keep seeing me as a friend, but I told her I felt too much attraction for her, and was open about that even after the first time I met her, to settle for that and subject myself to the frustration of being permanently friendzoned and or disappointed later when she never ended up feeling any chemistry or physical attraction for me. I just think you don't know enough about me, having never even met me Deb, to make those kind of judgments about me. Same with the other women on here that love to blame the man every time for his dating woes. Do you really see much of men on here blaming the woman for her dating woes, cuz' I sure don't.... And if a woman is so insecure, that a man radiating an honest vibe, or even admitting that he is lonely, after several years of being widowed, if that seems like such ...

Decided to use my financial advisers face on my Visa card

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 27, 2021:

They do dictate the money spent on cat food and pet products, at the very least. If they had their way, they would be in your will as heirs....

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 27, 2021:

@CurmudgeonBoy I'm sure he appreciates being an heir and will miss you if you die before him, lol...

Church Attendance is Declining Even on Military Bases | Hemant Mehta | Friendly Atheist | Patheos

freedom41 comments on Oct 26, 2021:

Maybe, that's a good sign we will be an Atheist nation one day

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 27, 2021:

@domos I think you are right. Social trends are often more complex than they seem, and there are usually things going on under the surface that the mass media never picks up on.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 27, 2021:

@Deb57 I wish I had that kind of gender ratio in my local dating pool on Match, but, like you say, it wouldn't really make much or any difference, as they would not accept someone with my culture and lifestyle traits differing from them, and I would not accept women who were strongly religious, country music lovers, or political conservatives, as well as heavy drinkers or daily smokers. Or someone really family-oriented. And those differences set me as incompatible, either from my end or theirs, with about 97% of the women in my local dating pool. So I have no choice but to keep plugging away and hope I can win somewhere down the line, by playing the long game, as they say in sports... I also agree with you Deb, about how in a dating pool that lopsided with women, men who are still single at our age are either misfits for the local dating pool, like me, or else they do have something personally wrong with them. I am firmly in the first group and my long and happy marriage before my late wife got ill and died, is my proof of that, my "human credential", as Fox Mulder used to say on The X-Files TV show. And, as that was my only LTR so far in my life, I will put my relationship track record up against anybody and in most cases, mine will be better and more successful than all these divorcees that reject me so often on Match. Why the hell do they think they are so superior to me, with their comparatively failed record at relationships? That is the ? I would love to hear answered by some of them, but never will...

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 27, 2021:

@Deb57 I have no doubt that was the case, and it is also partly why at this age, I am very reluctant to approach a woman at a concert or public event, even if she looks attractive and might have some things in common with me. Too tired of being shot down or striking out, and no doubt a lot of it is due to conditioning that women in our region experience from the creeps and users, since they tend to lump all men who are strangers that approach them into one negative group. I am too fed up with it to risk my feelings or spend my time approaching strange women who are unlikely to give me a chance, no matter how well I talk to them. Esp. since I have never had great confidence approaching strange women at bars or concerts, even when I was younger and more attractive looking. Trying that now seems silly and useless. I would rather use a dating site, where I at least know that most of the time they are truly single and looking to date, plus it plays to my strengths, which are writing and expressing myself well in describing who I am thru the profile format. Not much I can do about my looks. My pics either pass their test for looks or they don't.

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 26, 2021:

@Bigwavedave Part of the reasons for the singles group where you live could be that your neighbors there are much older than me or Deb, and thus, there is a greater % of women who are widowed, rather than still married, while the married men there have wives that are still kicking, so they aren't widowed yet and thus, are not again looking for partners. It's my curse that I am still young enough that most women my age have not become widowed yet, and if they are single at this time, it is due to divorce. The numbers, and my prospects for dating, may well improve a lot in another five or ten years with more women in my dating pool becoming widowed, but why would I want to just sit on my hands, still alone, and wait for that?

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 25, 2021:

That is a hard ? to answer, because so much depends on what other options or resources an individual person has for meeting compatible singles to date. Another variable is how important said search is to the person's life, as in, do they have lots of friends, family, children or grandchildren that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 26, 2021:

@Bigwavedave It is depressing, but it is reality. I have both a trusted female friend that advises me on this and other matters, as well as a female therapist who is in her 30s. They both concur and agree with my assessment on the local dating pool and my predicament. It is what it is, Dave... I have several good local friends, who are my support system. I have three siblings, whom I am estranged from, that all live out of state anyway. I have no other living family, except a cousin who lives far away in Indiana. So yes, finding a partner is a big focus in my life, and appropriately so, according to me, my friends, and my therapist. And the success of that search is mostly out of my hands...Count yourself lucky Dave, if, like I used to be before becoming widowed, you are part of the smugly married.

EXCLUSIVE: Jan.

JonnaBononna comments on Oct 25, 2021:

https://youtu.be/wxlhyX-4qKI

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 25, 2021:

The parrot's voice sure sounds like the comedian Gilbert Gottfried...

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

racocn8 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

Yes, they are not worth it, but what else is there? Yes they are a waste of time, until they aren't. I was tortured for years by different dating services. I am so glad to have finally found someone. Loneliness is ugly, but so many bring it on themselves.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 25, 2021:

@racocn8 I have never been burned by a scammer, either just lucky I guess, or too smart for them. I also never considered messaging a black woman on a dating site, as I figured, "Why bother? It's hard enough to find a white woman with mutual compatibility for me?" But then, I started to realize that maybe some black women are ok with and interested in possibly dating white men, not just within their race, and that also, some of them might actually be more realistic and open-minded about who they will date than most of the white women who kept rejecting me out of my local dating pool on Match. So I finally did meet up with a younger black woman from Match that seemed to click with me, but she ended up rejecting me after we met in person, probably due to a combination of my being twelve years older, and also, tho I know it may sound shallow on her part, because I refuse to get a smartphone. She probably felt or assumed I was too rigid or outdated for her. My experience has been just like you tho, most of my time on Match, 90-95% of my first messages to new women have been ignored or not replied to. Since Covid tho, my response rate has been significantly higher than before Covid. Why that is, I can't really know, but I can guess a few factors have helped. Since last spring, Match returned to its old profile format in an important way, in that members can once again view what trait preferences the other member is looking for in a partner, on things like race, education level, kids situation, religious affiliation, drinking/smoking habits, etc. Before that, for over a year, you had to just fly blind in choosing who to message that might be compatible and try to guess those things from the profile essay and what traits they identified for themselves on those issues. So, during that time, I was probably messaging way more women who, on paper at least, were not very compatible for me, at least in their minds. Secondly, since Covid, and all the isolated alone time it brought for singles, I think many of these women have rethought their previous attitudes on going it alone the rest of their lives and are giving online dating more of a serious and honest effort to find someone for a life partner. They seem to have less apathy, ambivalence, and impossibly high standards, compared to before Covid. Ah, the blessings of a pandemic!...

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

Deb57 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

I have never tried using a dating app and have only heard horror stories about them. As hard as it is to vet people in person, I'd think it'd be a nightmare online. Being alone is clearly not the worst thing that can happen to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 25, 2021:

Compared to women, men have little choice at our age but to use dating apps, unless they are part of some social network like a church or still working in a job where they can meet singles. And, esp. in more conservative and traditional parts of the country, like the Midwest, women are not going to approach men in public or at private events for men to meet them that way. But, as some women here on Agnostic have said, if a woman is good looking enough, she will get approached by single men on a regular basis at events, even at our age. So, provided they have the elite looks, women, at least in some parts of the country, will get all the opportunities to date single men as they desire, just from being approached when they are out and about. That is not going to happen for single men in this society, even if they are above average looking. Of course there are always exceptions, but the rules I've mentioned here seem very true. So I have no doubt, Deb,. with your looks, you could get about all the dating opportunities you wanted, same as from a dating app., but quality of opportunities and of dating partners, is a whole other matter and a separate discussion entirely.... Maybe these things explain why you have never used a dating app, or even needed to, besides just your general ambivalence about dating....

Just curious what people are feeling about dating apps.

racocn8 comments on Oct 25, 2021:

Yes, they are not worth it, but what else is there? Yes they are a waste of time, until they aren't. I was tortured for years by different dating services. I am so glad to have finally found someone. Loneliness is ugly, but so many bring it on themselves.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 25, 2021:

You are so right about all of that. Your comment speaks volumes. Finally meeting someone and dating them steadily, even if it isn't permanent, feels so good to no longer be alone and feeling hopeless and discouraged. Which is probably also why some online dating veterans end up settling for someone that they never would have settled for when they first set out on the search, but that is natural human nature, to simply want to be done with it for a long while, if not for good. as the dating game just exhausts and sucks the life out of you if it goes on for years fruitlessly. And you are also right, that so many bring it on themselves, either thru clinging to impossible standards for a partner, at least impossible for them with what they bring to the table, and sometimes impossible for anybody to measure up to. Another way people doom themselves to loneliness, is thru continued toxic behavior in the dating game, by sabotaging themselves or constantly mistreating others in the process, thru lying, game-playing, or not showing appreciation or kindness to others, instead just being selfish about the whole process.

I think she's right.

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 25, 2021:

Looks like Scooter blocked me, no idea why. Anybody else know?

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 25, 2021:

@Petter Maybe, but she also deleted her replies to you, and blocked you as well. Strange indeed.