Hey guys what do say when you meet someone in person from online dating and you are not physically ...

skado comments on Aug 14, 2019:

I don’t think there is a good answer to this question. Arranging a date with someone you’ve never met seems like putting the cart before the horse, to me. Online dating is a horrible idea. I’d rather at least see a person with my own eyes first, and have a conversation in a non-dating ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

@skado In almost two years, the answer is that it isn't, but I have little choice. My considerable efforts in the past to meet women organically offline have gone nowhere and offline anyway results in way too few opportunities to have any real chance of meeting someone compatible.

Hey guys what do say when you meet someone in person from online dating and you are not physically ...

Sticks48 comments on Aug 14, 2019:

I would rather just be ghosted. No stress on you, and I really don't need to know the reason.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

This is a rare one where we differ, Sticks. Most of the time I don't want to or need to know the reason I'm being rejected, but once in a while, esp. if the woman and I seem to have a lot in common and also share a good rapport in the first meeting, then I do appreciate a reality check from time to time on whether the reason is lack of physical attraction on their part. It has two purposes for me, one, it helps me know if I am trying to date too much out of my league lookswise, and secondly, it lets me know if it really is something other than looks that was the issue. Because, in my experience, looks is usually the issue when a woman meets you and has no interest after that, but they just don't want to say so. That's why I usually assume that unless proven otherwise. I doubt you get rejected nearly as often as I do Sticks, and thus, you have way less reason to care about the why of the rejection..... Jus' sayin'.

Hey guys what do say when you meet someone in person from online dating and you are not physically ...

bobwjr comments on Aug 14, 2019:

Be honest, polite and respectful

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

@bobwjr Anyone who is above average in looks, which you easily are, will run into this often, so you may as well figure out a strategy that works for you. This comment is for LL.

Hey guys what do say when you meet someone in person from online dating and you are not physically ...

Athena comments on Aug 14, 2019:

"I'm so glad we finally got the opportunity to meet because, as you know, it's such an important part of seeing whether there's chemistry. I really enjoyed our time together, but I don't feel a romantic connection which is what you're looking for. I hope you'll appreciate my being up front. I'd want...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

Well said. It's almost exactly what a former friend said to me during a first meeting after she answered my voice personal ad in the 90s. She did make it clear that she was interested in a platonic friendship with me and, unlike most men who would never be able to accept and handle sticking to such an arrangement with a gorgeous woman like her, we had a great two year friendship. Imagine that.......

Hey guys what do say when you meet someone in person from online dating and you are not physically ...

skado comments on Aug 14, 2019:

I don’t think there is a good answer to this question. Arranging a date with someone you’ve never met seems like putting the cart before the horse, to me. Online dating is a horrible idea. I’d rather at least see a person with my own eyes first, and have a conversation in a non-dating ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

That is true for most people at most ages, but when you get older and are no longer working it becomes very hard to meet people who are single and of decent health as well as interesting and compatible for hipsters like me. Online dating becomes a necessary evil, as my therapist admitted to me today.

DC MD VA peeps. Happy hour get together posted in our group.

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 14, 2019:

Wish something like that could happen in the Des Moines area on here, but we don't even have the critical mass to try it.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

@GreenAtheist In talking with other non-believers in the Des Moines area, there appear to be two reasons that non-believers move to Iowa. One is the lower cost of living compared to living on the coasts, thus, even with lower pay, a professional living here can have a higher standard of living than on the coasts. The other reason is, at our age, is that they come here to be around family, either frail parents or younger adult kids and grandkids. Those cases represent our opportunity at dating, at least in our age group.

DC MD VA peeps. Happy hour get together posted in our group.

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 14, 2019:

Wish something like that could happen in the Des Moines area on here, but we don't even have the critical mass to try it.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

@GreenAtheist Your two comments sure explain a lot of what I see in my area as far as a lack of non-believers to hang with or date. Now I really feel doomed to being alone.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 11, 2019:

I have been on Match for almost two years and the vast majority of female profiles my age describe themselves as " About Average" in the body type category they choose for themselves. I have gotten to the point that I will not bother messaging the woman if she does not include a full body shot photo...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 14, 2019:

@A2Jennifer As I said elsewhere, I believe that I and most men see the body type descriptions on dating sites and take them with a grain of salt rather than at face value, esp. if there are any full-body photos. If there are, we go by that regardless of the self-description. Based on your photos in your profile here, you qualify as curvy. I don't know who Kate Upton is or even care. Neither should you, as your figure would be attractive to most men, so why should you care about comparison to her?

Only atheists.

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 10, 2019:

Living in San Fran, you should have tons of non-believing men to choose from, unlike us folks here in flyover land. The stats are definitely on your side in that locale.......

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 13, 2019:

@yvilletom True, but it still leaves her with better stats to work with than me here in Des Moines around all the believing, family-oriented, traditional farmer's daughters in Iowa........

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Objective beauty, as he defines it, is a real issue that does matter a lot to both men and women. The proof of that is which sort of people on dating sites get their messages read, much less replied to. If your pics are not attractive enough, people will swipe away or reject you on that initial ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 13, 2019:

@bleurowz Well, we agree there at least. That's the reality of how online dating works with at least 95% of the people and it's not going to change as far as what they do, no matter what any of us thinks.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

TheDoubter comments on Aug 12, 2019:

i go for personality, intelligence

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 13, 2019:

I go for the whole package. I won't lie to myself or this group, looks matter at least to a degree with me, maybe not as much or as little as to others on these boards, even more so with people on real paid dating sites.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

BitFlipper comments on Aug 12, 2019:

The pep talk provided some inspiration, but it's hard to imagine how to put his ideas into action. It's hard to take the word of an attractive person giving advice to the unattractive.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 13, 2019:

@bleurowz I agree with BF. HIs pep talk teaches me nothing new and it gives me no help in overcoming the stacked odds and wall of objective beauty in online dating that dooms me from having a chance with over 90% of the people I message, including both average and above average-looking women on paid sites like Match. His advice holds maybe some more water in offline dating that happens organically, because in those situations you are not competing with every other man on the dating site. Instead, you are only being measured by the other person against their own "types" or baseline standards of objective beauty when you first meet them, so if you manage to pass those tests, you then may have a shot at winning them over with your perceived beauty if they will meet you again a time or two. Still long odds if you are a 5 or a 6 and they are a 7 or 8 on the looks scale. For reasons of comparision, Mr. Hussey appears to be at least a 7, and more likely an 8 or 9 on the scale. In other words, he is playing in a totally different league than BF, me, or Bob, and there's no getting around that.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Objective beauty, as he defines it, is a real issue that does matter a lot to both men and women. The proof of that is which sort of people on dating sites get their messages read, much less replied to. If your pics are not attractive enough, people will swipe away or reject you on that initial ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@bleurowz My point is that I am not discounting the importance of valuing yourself or feeling adequate about yourself, etc. I am saying that in online dating if you are someone, anyone, whose looks are average or worse, you will be ignored and rejected by most people on dating sites based on objective beauty. That is how the system works and Gwendolyn validated all of that in the past on here, even backed it up with studies. That is how the game is played and works. You, me, and anyone else can resent it until the cows come home, but it will not change the reality and dynamics of dating sites..........

Agnostic vs Atheist Sorry to rake up this seemingly old one up again but there have been so many ...

believeinlove comments on Aug 12, 2019:

I think many agnostics are for the most part atheists who want to avoid the negative connotations associated with the word "atheist".

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

Probably true. I really don't fucking care about the difference tho. Neither do most of us. As Sticks, said, how much longer will this dead horse be beat on these boards?

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

UUNJ comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Whether you want to attract a partner or a friend, the photos you post matter. Photos taken on a laptop screen never look good because the lighting and angle suck. Shots from below aren’t flattering — no one needs to see up your nostrils. There’s something to be said for smiling and showing ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@UUNJ I don't get that concerned about whether the photos suggest a scammer or not, because the rest of the profile is already full of tipoffs about if it's legit or not. As far as real photos, I prefer photos that are not selfies, and thus in their car, bed, or bathroom, but if they are I don't hold it against them if the photos still suggest they are attractive-looking, at least to me. Not everyone has helpful friends with cameras that can shoot for them. But having those kind of friends are a plus in my feeling they are of good character and personality. People who appear to have few or no friends are a red flag to me. I am kind of a slob when it comes to dress, so I am not going to be that critical of how fashionable a woman dresses. Personally, I think it is a little shallow to put a lot of stock in how someone dresses, but that's me. As long as their clothes are clean and seem to fit them ok, I really don't care that much. They should also have their hair at least decently clean and cut too. So I guess hygiene matters some to me. I really hate it when women use filters on their photos of their face or do fish faces with their lips on the photos. It looks foolish and immature rather than sexy.......

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

bobwjr comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Beauty is more in the person than skin have known beautiful woman who had ugly inside and vice versa

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@bobwjr Thanks, Bob. I have never had regrets on that friendship. It was enriching and if I had tried to pursue a romantic relationship with her later I would have missed out on a lot. Part of my experience with her was the constant looks of interest and admiration I got from other people at restuarants, concerts, and other public places whenever I was with her, in other words, how being with her seemed to validate in the eyes of others that I seemed to maybe somehow be worthy of her as a romantic partner even tho they were all incorrectly assuming that we were a couple. My experience with her is much of my proof or evidence for the strong opinions I have posted on these boards about attraction and how we treat others around that issue as worthy or not of our company and romantic interest. My time with her was enriching as it proved to me that a beautiful woman on the outside could also be so on the inside and value the friendship of a man who was way out of her league in physical beauty, but it also was quite disillusioning in what it taught me about the attitudes of both men and women who observed us together.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

BitFlipper comments on Aug 12, 2019:

The pep talk provided some inspiration, but it's hard to imagine how to put his ideas into action. It's hard to take the word of an attractive person giving advice to the unattractive.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

Very astute point. It's akin to a white-privilege or rich person trying to give advice to a poor, black person. Well-intentioned, but how practical and useful will it be for someone without the same privilege as the advisor? And how much empathy does the advisor really have? This guy is smart, but man, he kept repeating himself a lot and going over the same ground a lot. The whole talk could have been given much more concisely, maybe in 5 min. or less.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

bobwjr comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Beauty is more in the person than skin have known beautiful woman who had ugly inside and vice versa

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@bobwjr Most or all of the others probably were princess syndrome types. The woman who was a 9 was very kind, honest, and emotionally supportive early on and all thru our 2 year friendship. But I asked her at the beginning of our first meeting if she was attracted to me and she not only said No, she also said that she could usually tell from the beginning if she was ever going to feel physical attraction for a man. So, true to my usual nature and policy, I immediately switched to interacting with her on a strictly platonic level and permanently dropped any hope of a change in her viewpoint. To do otherwise would have ruined any chance at a friendship. So I don't quite get what you are saying Bob about how she or I could have tried anything different that would have caused us to end up a romantic couple. She rejected me for that, plain and simple and I had long given up trying to play out some alternative drama to that long before I met her and have never gone back on that policy since either.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

bobwjr comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Beauty is more in the person than skin have known beautiful woman who had ugly inside and vice versa

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

I too have experienced some of that kind of thing with women who were good-looking. There is some of that truth in the movie Shallow Hal. Honestly, I have only gotten to know a small number of women in my life well enough to get an idea of their inner personality and character, and, unfortunately, most of them are not that beautiful on the inside, probably because with their looks they could always get away with a lot of bad behavior or being unkind to others, esp. men. However, the best looking woman I ever got to know, a true 9 on the outside and inside, the only 9 I ever met, was one of the best people I ever had as a friend. Met her thru a personal ad in the 90s and too bad I wasn't in her league lookswise.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Objective beauty, as he defines it, is a real issue that does matter a lot to both men and women. The proof of that is which sort of people on dating sites get their messages read, much less replied to. If your pics are not attractive enough, people will swipe away or reject you on that initial ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@bleurowz More or less, you are agreeing with the point made to me by the dating coach, which is, that if someone sees you as not attractive enough from the pics to be interested in you, it's pointless to expect a reply from them or any contact at all from them. You seem to be making a negative moral judgement about them for their mindset. The coach was not making any judgement in her comment/advice to me, she was just saying this is how it is and there's no point getting emotional about it or expecting people to vary from the norm by replying to you if they do not find your photos attractive, at least to them.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

UUNJ comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Whether you want to attract a partner or a friend, the photos you post matter. Photos taken on a laptop screen never look good because the lighting and angle suck. Shots from below aren’t flattering — no one needs to see up your nostrils. There’s something to be said for smiling and showing ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@UUNJ And most women never click on guys, even ones who message them, if the main profile pic does not meet the woman's standards of objective beauty. I have seen the proof in all the messages I have sent that were unread and the lack of views from women that I messaged. You really do have to get past the initial screening process for personality, character, and perceived beauty to come into play and you never will, with most people, male and female, if your main photo is not objectively beautiful enough.

"Are You Pretty Enough For Him?

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Objective beauty, as he defines it, is a real issue that does matter a lot to both men and women. The proof of that is which sort of people on dating sites get their messages read, much less replied to. If your pics are not attractive enough, people will swipe away or reject you on that initial ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@bleurowz I'm not encouraging that mindset or thinking, but I recognize it as a powerful reality, like it or not. I would rather deal with online dating in a realistic manner than not, since it appears to be a necessary evil at my age and in my situation.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

Sadanty comments on Aug 12, 2019:

Around 5 ' 3'' tall and about 155 pounds ... :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

Too true.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

BitFlipper comments on Aug 12, 2019:

All the self-assessments are open to interpretation. "Average" usually means "average for our overweight population". I describe myself as average and that's the rationale I claim. The one that kills me is "athletic". Some of the women who describe themselves as athletic are runners or ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

The self-chosen categories are a crock. Photos tell the real story and even then only if they are real and recent. The dating sites may as well get rid of the self-chosen categories as no one viewing a profile puts much stock in them. The only thing those reveal is the level of truthfulness or delusion of the site member about themselves, which can be useful in judging the character of the person. And for those who refuse to include real, recent photos that include a full body shot and a close up head shot, they are too thin-skinned to be on a dating site in the first place.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 11, 2019:

I have been on Match for almost two years and the vast majority of female profiles my age describe themselves as " About Average" in the body type category they choose for themselves. I have gotten to the point that I will not bother messaging the woman if she does not include a full body shot photo...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@brainyactress Same with bowling. A sport that hardly does anything to build an athletic body. You can be a champ in that even with a huge beer gut.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

WonderWartHog99 comments on Aug 12, 2019:

## If she describes herself as average, she's boring. If that's the best way she can describe herself it's time to keep looking. It doesn't matter how good looking she is, how great the sex is, at some point she opens her yap. You don't want to hear how extensive the research has been to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 12, 2019:

@UUNJ I just checked the Match options for men, which I guess differ some from the options women have. Men can choose About Average, Heavyset, Slender, and Athletic And Toned. Pretty limited set.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

of-the-mountain comments on Aug 11, 2019:

If you stand up and look down and can not see your feet, what are you? Most of what I have seen in person and via photographs of women and men think they are average not being able to actually see their feet! I personally have no gut or belly over hang, yet weight in today at 250# at 72"! ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 11, 2019:

Not sure I would go that far. I think that a simple majority, not the vast majority, of both sexes, lie somewhat about their weight.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 11, 2019:

I have been on Match for almost two years and the vast majority of female profiles my age describe themselves as " About Average" in the body type category they choose for themselves. I have gotten to the point that I will not bother messaging the woman if she does not include a full body shot photo...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 11, 2019:

@UUNJ Honest photos expose the lie about people self-defining their body type. Which is why I pretty much ignore the self-chosen category if there are full-body photos. It's silly how many people think they can lie about it. I won't message someone without a full body pic and as far as the diff between average and curvy? That diff is whether the woman's breasts and hips are larger than normal or average, at least in the mind of this male and probably most men.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

azzow2 comments on Aug 11, 2019:

Average is hard to calculate height is always a consideration. I describe my self as average. I am 6 foot 3 inches tall 250 lbs. If I was a foot shorter my weight would make me considerably large.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 11, 2019:

@azzow2 That's a common occurence.

Curious what men here think when a woman describes herself as “about average” on a dating site ...

azzow2 comments on Aug 11, 2019:

Average is hard to calculate height is always a consideration. I describe my self as average. I am 6 foot 3 inches tall 250 lbs. If I was a foot shorter my weight would make me considerably large.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 11, 2019:

I stand a little over 6'1" and weigh 190 lbs. That is right on the far end of average and a BMI of 25. Most of my life I have been considered slender, but age has caught up with me.

Sad and disturbing news for non-Christians hoping to adopt.

Sticks48 comments on Aug 11, 2019:

What is infuriating is this man is no more of a believer than you or I. He is a sick fuck.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 11, 2019:

I know and that should be obvious to all the fundys that support him, like my older sister, but they don't seem to care as long as he supports their pet issues like outlawing abortion and nominating right wing judges. Shows how shallow and hypocritical their religion is.

Only atheists.

Looking4-Others comments on Aug 10, 2019:

I'm gonna be a slug and go ahead and say it..At this point after 9 years of not getting any still when I see a woman I think I may be attracted to I think about the other aspects of that person which is that believer crap and that pretty much does it for me. I have to constantly remind myself that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 10, 2019:

@Looking4-Others you're welcome. I admit there is a certain efficiency and simplicity to it.

Only atheists.

Looking4-Others comments on Aug 10, 2019:

I'm gonna be a slug and go ahead and say it..At this point after 9 years of not getting any still when I see a woman I think I may be attracted to I think about the other aspects of that person which is that believer crap and that pretty much does it for me. I have to constantly remind myself that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 10, 2019:

You remind me a bit of that country song about an often-divorced guy who deals with his occasional urge to get married by instead just finding a woman he hates and buying her a house, as a way to cut thru to the chase and get rid of that urge to wed.

Agnostic and More

Sticks48 comments on Aug 10, 2019:

Who gives a fuck. You folks could not possibly beat this dead horse any more dead than it has been since I joined this site a year and a half ago. This has gotten beyond BORING!!!

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 10, 2019:

@Sticks48 I haven't drank alcohol since the mid 90s, so we are peers in that too.

Iowa Religious Extremist Who Burned Library Books Faces The Law [au.

Killtheskyfairy comments on Aug 9, 2019:

It pisses me off that Iowa gets the attention and huge input into our Presidential elections when most Iowans are stupid yahoos and religious fanatics like this guy. Book burners are not who we want making major decisions about our future.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 10, 2019:

@Killtheskyfairy It's not you. She is a strange one. I have traded some PMs with her. She seems to be more of a typical Iowan than a progressive hipster like most of us. Sometimes all we have in common on this site is our non-belief, otherwise some of us are just as conservative and traditional as the believers in the Bible Belt. So it's important not to assume too much just because someone is a member of this site and a non-believer.

Iowa Religious Extremist Who Burned Library Books Faces The Law [au.

Killtheskyfairy comments on Aug 9, 2019:

It pisses me off that Iowa gets the attention and huge input into our Presidential elections when most Iowans are stupid yahoos and religious fanatics like this guy. Book burners are not who we want making major decisions about our future.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 10, 2019:

@Killtheskyfairy I've lived in Iowa my whole life and you'll get no argument from me about how most of them are ignorant hicks. There are really only about three liveable areas in the whole state and they all have universities in them. The rest of the state is rural backwaters and still exert a large cultural influence even on the liveable areas I mentioned. That is why it's so tough to find anyone compatible to date even in the most urban part of Iowa unless you are lucky enough to meet a transplant to Iowa from somewhere more progressive that just happens to be available and interested in dating when you meet them, like my late wife was in '95.

On a positive note.

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 10, 2019:

I am exactly who I say I am on here, for better or worse. Too bad there is no one local to date from Agnostic. Still feel fairly alone on this site.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 10, 2019:

@BitFlipper As Bill Murray said in Stripes, " Das de fact, Jack!".......

Only atheists.

NoPlanetB comments on Aug 9, 2019:

Yep, I live in Oklahoma and finding a older non-believer liberal man is like trying to find one particular grain of sand at the beach.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 10, 2019:

@Heidi68 Sounds like your sticker critic needs to get a life. Props on the Make America Think Again sticker.

Only atheists.

NoPlanetB comments on Aug 9, 2019:

Yep, I live in Oklahoma and finding a older non-believer liberal man is like trying to find one particular grain of sand at the beach.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 9, 2019:

@NoPlanetB Actually, around here I am truly worried about worse than that happening, namely cut tires and smashed windshield. In my very religious and Repub suburb, I would never leave my car parked at night on a dark side street as I know it would probably be targeted for vandalism. The only times I leave it parked outside in my town is in broad daylight in a crowded lot, so little is likely to happen to it then. The times I am concerned about it is during my visits to Des Moines, when it is parked at night in on the street, where things are more open-minded, but not enough for me to want to have anything too radical on my bumper.

Only atheists.

NoPlanetB comments on Aug 9, 2019:

Yep, I live in Oklahoma and finding a older non-believer liberal man is like trying to find one particular grain of sand at the beach.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 9, 2019:

@NoPlanetB They would have been. Not worth risking the sale or value of your home before it was sold with the inevitable vandalism that would have occurred. Same reason I will not put certain bumper stickers on my car, even tho I wholeheartedly endorse those viewpoints. Some speech is just too damn expensive and inconvenient these days.

Only atheists.

NoPlanetB comments on Aug 9, 2019:

Yep, I live in Oklahoma and finding a older non-believer liberal man is like trying to find one particular grain of sand at the beach.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 9, 2019:

@Heidi68 Here is close enough. I wouldn't be able to take living it it like you. Would by now have either moved out of desperation or probably checked out if I hadn't met my late wife.

Only atheists.

NoPlanetB comments on Aug 9, 2019:

Yep, I live in Oklahoma and finding a older non-believer liberal man is like trying to find one particular grain of sand at the beach.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 9, 2019:

Similar odds in Iowa. It's not as Bible Belt as OK, but close enough to it.

Iowa Religious Extremist Who Burned Library Books Faces The Law [au.

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 9, 2019:

His attitude is not surprising as he lives in the western part of Iowa, a cultural wasteland and backwater, as far as this Iowan is concerned. There are no universities there, almost everyone is conservative, white, and religious, and Steve King represents them in congress, a man who is openly as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 9, 2019:

@greyeyed123 Possibly, if only because he pissed off a lot of the farmers who voted for him with his tariffs against China on crops they grow as well as his lack of support for ethanol and renewable energy. He lost some support with his stands on each of those issues. I could have told them back in 2016 what he was going to do on each issue, but these fools would never have believed me.

Iowa Religious Extremist Who Burned Library Books Faces The Law [au.

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 9, 2019:

His attitude is not surprising as he lives in the western part of Iowa, a cultural wasteland and backwater, as far as this Iowan is concerned. There are no universities there, almost everyone is conservative, white, and religious, and Steve King represents them in congress, a man who is openly as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 9, 2019:

@greyeyed123 Nope, it isn't. More like the T-shirt I bought from a local snarky shop that says "Iowa, a great black hole you can never escape from, but a great black hole to raise kids in ".........

[aarp.

Sticks48 comments on Aug 9, 2019:

There is nothing new there. This is stuff you should figure out by at least your 30's. It's all common sense no matter your age. Given all of that, when someone immediately knocks your socks off, all of that shit goes out the window, at least until you can catch your breath and reason things out. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 9, 2019:

Agreed. Already knew this and more. This is for people who haven't been on the market or tried dating in decades and are starting clueless.

Mass shootings. Perhaps it's a societal issue like obesity and religion?

TomMcGiverin comments on Aug 6, 2019:

Nobody but the police or military need automatic weapons or ones that can easily be converted to automatic weapons. If you have so little trust in your police and military to think that they will be against you should the government decide to impose martial law and become a dictatorship, then you ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 7, 2019:

@JamesUC I'm not even going to attempt to debate it with you. You either see the reason, namely under-restricted weapons compared to the rest of the world, correlated with way more mass shootings than the rest of the world, or you don't. We're done...

OK. How many people come to this site to find a partner?

hippydog comments on Aug 6, 2019:

New people are joining all the time.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 7, 2019:

@hippydog I mentioned info about the site to a local atheists and freethinkers group that had a booth at the local gay pride parade this summer and encouraged them to join here, but as far as I can tell no women my age joined. Plus, I know from a male friend already in that group that very few women ever come to their meetings and the ones that do are already coupled.

OK. How many people come to this site to find a partner?

ArtzyNerd comments on Aug 6, 2019:

I did initially but seems my compatible partners are way too far away...I am not giving up hope. And it could be my perfect match is 4000 miles away. So I am still open to the possibility that my match could be here.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 6, 2019:

Same here. I will not date LD, but I have little to no hope that anyone compatible will join in my area.

OK. How many people come to this site to find a partner?

hippydog comments on Aug 6, 2019:

New people are joining all the time.

TomMcGiverin replies on Aug 6, 2019:

Maybe so, but no women my age have joined in my area for the last two years, so I have little hope of finding anyone less than hundreds of miles away, if even that.....

Ok.

Anonbene comments on Jul 27, 2019:

You could blow him while his mom is in the room. I'll bet you already thought of that. 😂

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 28, 2019:

@Cabsmom Thank you for being more honest than most women here who talk about the dating game and say that they always wait several dates before having sex with someone they meet for a real relationship, not just FWB or hookups, and also thank you for admitting that you are like most men are, namely that you are usually aware very early on or quickly if you have any sexual attraction to someone. I think all this talk about how women either don't know early on if someone is attractive to them or that attraction for them has developed slowly over time is more like discussion of unicorns. In other words it is somewhat dishonest or based in fantasy rather than reality.

Sometimes its not the song that makes you emotional, it's the people and things that come to mind ...

HippieChick58 comments on Jul 27, 2019:

I've often heard people say it is "their" song because it was playing when something very good happened.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 27, 2019:

@HippieChick58 Ditto.

Ok.

Anonbene comments on Jul 27, 2019:

You could blow him while his mom is in the room. I'll bet you already thought of that. 😂

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 27, 2019:

@Cabsmom I''ve never had sex on a first date either, even when I was young. Chill out, Cindy, not all men our age are after first date sex, or even second date either.

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

mischl comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Yes, some women do equally douchey things. The most common is showing a photo that is ten or twenty years old. The second most common is hiding their body weight (if they're fat). I've learned that women showing face only are usually overweight. I've also learned that a good way to get blocked is by...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 26, 2019:

@mischl I got to know two women who admitted to me that they had put on a lot of weight within months after being raped or nearly raped because it unconsciously made them feel safer from attack by being less attractive to men.

I just told my friend I think I am the runaway bride of dating!

of-the-mountain comments on Jul 26, 2019:

Shit does happen, especially when dealing with others who you are notbatunevto in any form or fashion!

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 26, 2019:

Ain't that the fucking truth for most of us!

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

mischl comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Yes, some women do equally douchey things. The most common is showing a photo that is ten or twenty years old. The second most common is hiding their body weight (if they're fat). I've learned that women showing face only are usually overweight. I've also learned that a good way to get blocked is by...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 26, 2019:

@mischl Same here. I think we share that with most men, but it appears most men are just not as honest about it, either because they fear the wrath of feminists, or they just enjoy telling women what they want to hear. I respect myself and others too much to lie to them, so let the haters hate, I say.

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

Jinx5555555 comments on Jul 25, 2019:

This whole thread is hilarious. Male/Female relationships are too dysfunctional to work anymore. Popular media has raised generations of men and women that are too different to work together. Bring on the sex robots and test-tube procreation.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 26, 2019:

@Cherie4444 Not sure what you are saying. When I met my late wife I still had a fair amount of hair on my head and I could still get dates with women that were attractive to me, at least. It does seem to me that the dating market is worse now, at least in my experience compared to the last time, and I think that is for other reasons as well as me being bald or not as athletic looking as back then either. Make of it what you will. I think most of the reasons are that women are way more closed and guarded than back then about dating as well as being pickier than then. It makes the whole process really an ordeal for both.

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

mischl comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Yes, some women do equally douchey things. The most common is showing a photo that is ten or twenty years old. The second most common is hiding their body weight (if they're fat). I've learned that women showing face only are usually overweight. I've also learned that a good way to get blocked is by...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 26, 2019:

@Justjoni He is just being honest, Jj. I will not message a woman who does not have a full body pic because I am not on dating sites for the primary purpose of making platonic friends. I want someone who seems to at least have some potential of me being physically attracted to them before I waste my time or theirs. Dating does eventually usually lead to trying sex with someone if it goes far and long enough. I don't want to set them or me up for disappointment if I know from the pics I am not likely to be attracted due to their body type. Their is a reason everybody on paid dating sites wants current pics in the profile and usually at least on close up head shot and one full body shot. Because looks are important to about everyone, all other traits being equal and compatible.

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

PolyComrade comments on Jul 24, 2019:

I don't really think of this site as a dating site/app. I mean, initially I signed up for it thinking it was a dating site, but quickly my perspective shifted. Now I just think of agnostic dot com as basically social media for atheists.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@IAJO163 Most of us can meet people here for long distance or online friendship, but as far as dating anyone from here, most of us would have to travel at least hundreds of miles.

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

RavenCT comments on Jul 24, 2019:

If you full on steal someone else's photos - you're being a scammer. If you're posting photos from 10 or 20 years ago - or using a filter that makes you look that much younger? You're being dishonest. I remember a member going from "filtered photo" to non-filtered and I went "OMG It's the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

I've never met anyone in person from Agnostic, but it appears to me that most members of this site who are open to dating are much more honest about their pics than people on the paid sites.

Alaska is Far Out ! Anybody travilin' up this way is welcome to look me up.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 25, 2019:

I leave Sun. on a cruise from Seattle to AK, but it only goes as far north as Juneau, so I won't see you.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@FrostyJim Would I have any use on this trip for any short sleeved polo shirts, or are they just dead weight in my bags?

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

Jinx5555555 comments on Jul 25, 2019:

This whole thread is hilarious. Male/Female relationships are too dysfunctional to work anymore. Popular media has raised generations of men and women that are too different to work together. Bring on the sex robots and test-tube procreation.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@Cherie4444 My 22 yr. LTR and marriage allowed me to temporarily beat the odds and be with someone attractive and compatible that I may never be able to find another at my age that is even close to that due to being bald, Agnostic, childfree, average looking and not the culture and lifestyle the vast majority of women in my area want. That dating market and game have really gotten worse since I was in it in the mid-90s, plus being older now. Jinx is totally right about how unlikely I am to find someone compatible in today's system.

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

RickyAdams comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Agree 100%. But, chicks shouldnt put filters on every pic of them or post pics of their kids instead of themselves, either.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@GrungeGirl90s I'm a straight up, average looking but bald guy who just happens to live in a shitty dating pool for a childfree hipster like me at my age. I probably like more of the same music as you, GG, than do most single guys your age in your area, but unfortunately most of the women my age in my area like country music-which I hate- and only about 25% of them are open to dating someone non-religious. They are also almost all very family-oriented, whether they have kids or not. Only family men need apply. It could always be worse for you, just sayin'....

The hypocrisy of the Republicans is almost unbelievable to me.

mscoulter comments on Jul 25, 2019:

Dems are stuck on stupid when it comes to "going high".

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

True. Being wimpy instead of tough gets you nowhere when you are fighting people who are ruthless and have no scruples. And it also looks bad to voters when you claim to be on their side more than the Repubs, but don't appear to be willing and tough enough to fight for them against the Repubs. So the voters on the fence either vote for the side that seems tougher or sit out the election. Everyone wants to vote for a tough champion of their cause and a winner, otherwise, they don't get enthused about a candidate.

friends are important...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Yes and no. While making platonic friends thru a paid dating site like Match happens all the time and there is nothing wrong with that, I recently had an experience with Match what makes me beg to differ on all the happy talk of collateral friendship from dating sites. I met a woman for coffee after...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@BitFlipper That was my point. People join hoping to meet potential romantic partners after, of course, beginning as friends. The harsh fact is that becoming friends thru a dating site if something usually offered as sort of a consolation prize on the part of the person who is rejecting the other person as being unworthy of a relationship greater than friendzone with them. In fact, this offer of a strictly friendzone relationship is often made in a hollow, insincere way these day and is really more about the person offering not wanting to feel guilty or uncomfortable about rejecting the other person romantically and without any intention of pursuing a truly close friendship with the other person or spending much time together at all. Totally bogus and nothing I would be interested in. I find that who idea of a fake consolation prize insulting and I would prefer that game players like that not bother with even meeting me if they have already decided before meeting me that I will never be worthy of more than friendzone material to them.

I had a date yesterday with a guy I was talking to on okc back in April.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Good for you. I had a pretty disappointing one yesterday. After trading several long positive messages with her over a few days, we met for coffee and talked for over two hours. She seemed very excited to see me when we met and thru most of the conversation, but I could see her expression change in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 25, 2019:

@BitFlipper Apparently that's what the higher end dating coaches do. They observe the dates and then de-brief each party on how it went...

friends are important...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Yes and no. While making platonic friends thru a paid dating site like Match happens all the time and there is nothing wrong with that, I recently had an experience with Match what makes me beg to differ on all the happy talk of collateral friendship from dating sites. I met a woman for coffee after...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 24, 2019:

@Cutiebeauty No need to get nasty or crude. Not exactly moderator behavior. Some of you mods have too much power for your level of tolerance towards others.

What is the worst date you've ever been on?

GrungeGirl90s comments on Jul 24, 2019:

This was just this past January. Just started dating this guy maybe two months prior. Invited him to a concert in LA as a birthday present. He seemed psyched to go and even said he'd drive. Well, for one thing I found out he had a daughter (older, 20) but on the dating site he said he didn't have ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 24, 2019:

For what it's worth, I never lie about any of those things. Maybe I should I I simply want to get to meet more women in person and then get rejected for being Agnostic, not having kids or being family-oriented, and for hating country music. I also don't drink alcohol, but have decided to lie about that by listing myself as a social drinker instead of the kiss of death category of Never drinker, because women who are social drinkers seem to all assume that a non-drinker is either a recovering alcoholic or a judgemental teetotaler. I am tired of being rejected on their assumptions without ever getting the chance to meet and explain why I don't drink, namely meds and a minor medical condition.

friends are important...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Yes and no. While making platonic friends thru a paid dating site like Match happens all the time and there is nothing wrong with that, I recently had an experience with Match what makes me beg to differ on all the happy talk of collateral friendship from dating sites. I met a woman for coffee after...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 24, 2019:

@Cutiebeauty No I'm not. I have plenty of friends from outside of online dating. I don't really need more. You seem to be misunderstanding me. Of course, Cutie, when I meet someone from dating site I always begin and approach it as a friendship first, then explore something romantic and even later sexual only if the early compatibility works out. It is deceitful, in my opinion, if I or the woman agrees to meet the other person after already having decided that the other person will never be more than friendzone. I won't do that to a woman and I don't want it done to me because it is leading the other person on to thinking they might have a chance at more than friendship later when you have already rejected that and are keeping that info to yourself. I am done debating this with you. Don't make me block you....

A few suggestions for the guys on dating sites: First, post a picture of YOU and not some actor.

ESmith comments on Jul 24, 2019:

This seems like a no brainer, but I guess some folx just gotta try. But since we're on the subject of truth in advertising... I actually need some opinions on this online dating thing. So, people can be pretty specific with their dating parameters, in particular height. Being short myself ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 24, 2019:

I don't worry about things like height, because I usually fit the height ranges most women list. As for age, if I am only a couple years older than their age limit, I will take a chance and message them if their profile seems otherwise compatible. I have found that messaging women who don't want to date someone my age based on my being 5 or more years older than the top of their stated range, is a waste of time. Esp. since being bald makes me look several years older than if i had hair. Also, if a woman's profile indicates that she is only seeking men with kids or is very family-oriented, I don't bother messaging her. Same with someone who mentions being religious or indicates she will only date men who are religious, which makes up about 75% of the women my age in my area on Match.

friends are important...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 24, 2019:

Yes and no. While making platonic friends thru a paid dating site like Match happens all the time and there is nothing wrong with that, I recently had an experience with Match what makes me beg to differ on all the happy talk of collateral friendship from dating sites. I met a woman for coffee after...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 24, 2019:

@Cutiebeauty I make my friends offline, and not using dating sites. In the last two years I made three, two males from Meetup groups and a woman from a singles group. I get your concept and don't need advice on making friends. This woman is misusing dating sites for her own secret, selfish ends and not being fair to guys who use dating sites hoping to meet potential girlfriends. She is not doing guys any favors by meeting them after she has already decided they are just not worthy of more than permanent friendzone and I bet women would feel the same way about a guy doing that. This is not the first woman on Match that I have met who played this game with me.I already have several friends. I joined dating sites to find a girlfriend.

I had a date yesterday with a guy I was talking to on okc back in April.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Good for you. I had a pretty disappointing one yesterday. After trading several long positive messages with her over a few days, we met for coffee and talked for over two hours. She seemed very excited to see me when we met and thru most of the conversation, but I could see her expression change in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@BitFlipper It's hard to say, BF, maybe they're out of our league, maybe we're out of theirs. Really hard to know unless you brought in a third party, like a dating coach, who talked to both the man and the woman.

My date for tonight had to reschedule because some family stuff came up.

mischl comments on Jul 22, 2019:

When I make a date with a woman and I don't show up, I'm either in the hospital or dead. As you might guess, I'm real BIG on keeping my word.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@Doraz Nope. don't know how and don't want to learn. I would rather leave a VM or ideally talk live by phone. I want to hear a voice and have the context and inflection of voice so the messages are clearer and understood. I hate and reject how communication is becoming more and more impersonal and brief, while most people don't even care whether others understand what they are saying, being more concerned with how cool, smart and snarky they sound to themselves. Too much going on that feeds more narcissism.... I don't need to text, Doraz, and BTW, I have always shown up for a date or coffee meeting with someone in a dating situation, even with all the things that can happen, because I have a high sense of honor and integrity that few other people have. I don't need that crutch of texting to alert someone I'm on the way, etc. Too bad that few other people in the dating world seem to be impressed by that or attracted to me for being very honorable, trustworthy, etc., but it counts for nothing compared to looks, how you dress, and how much money you have and seem willing to spend on a woman, at least that's how it appears to be in my online dating experiences.

My date for tonight had to reschedule because some family stuff came up.

mischl comments on Jul 22, 2019:

When I make a date with a woman and I don't show up, I'm either in the hospital or dead. As you might guess, I'm real BIG on keeping my word.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@Doraz True, but it's very rare that it is really necessary as long as people keep their agreements and show up on time. I am not so busy that I need one or want one. I am retired, manage time very well and always show up on time, so I will not be running late on anything unless I have car trouble or weather trouble, the latter of course would be obvious to someone meeting me. I am reluctant to ask a woman for her phone number until after we have met as it would be offputting to most.

Munchie was being annoying, as per usual, so my husband shut him out of the office.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 22, 2019:

Kitty looks like he's trying to squeeze under the door and might make it thru....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 23, 2019:

@Kynlei Still wants to try......

My date for tonight had to reschedule because some family stuff came up.

mischl comments on Jul 22, 2019:

When I make a date with a woman and I don't show up, I'm either in the hospital or dead. As you might guess, I'm real BIG on keeping my word.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@Doraz One of those would be car trouble, but nowadays everyone has some kind of mobile phone, even me, that they could call the other person as long as the process has already moved on to some way of connecting, even if it's e-mail. Altho that would only work for me if I had already traded phone numbers with the woman, which I would not normally do until after meeting in person. So that's why I need to show up no matter what while trust is still being established enough to communicate outside of messages thu the dating site, since I don't have a smartphone to send messages thru the dating sites.

My date for tonight had to reschedule because some family stuff came up.

mischl comments on Jul 22, 2019:

When I make a date with a woman and I don't show up, I'm either in the hospital or dead. As you might guess, I'm real BIG on keeping my word.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

Me too, but these days it seems like few others are like us, including some women in online dating. You would think everyone could act like real adults, but some still love their games......

I guess even the seemingly perfect relationship is really wrought with problems.

Sticks48 comments on Jul 22, 2019:

This has little to do with being single, and everything to do with being BAT SHIT CRAZY! IMO

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

As you once said, Sticks, all relationships have their rough patches....

Tim Wise on Twitter: "1/ If the Dems blow this election it will not be because they were "too far ...

altschmerz comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I just got off the phone with my brother. He says don’t try to sway the Trump voters – get the non-voters to vote. He said if everybody in the country who could vote went out and voted, the GOP would cease to exist. Quite a bold assertion ....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@altschmerz I proudly voted for Stein and still have my 2106 bumper stickers with Bernie on the left and Jill on the right. I am not at all apologetic for it and if centrist Dems try to blame me for Hillary's loss, I tell them to shove it and that I will do it again if they screw Bernie and nominate someone like Biden or Mayor Pete. I'm done voting lesser evil or for corporate Dems......

Two people walking in opposite directions, heads down, scrolling on their cell phones, walk smack ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 20, 2019:

I own only a tracphone, not a smartphone, and I only use it when I am away from my home landline. I can self entertain with my own thoughts if I am away from home without company or else bring a book to read while I wait on something or need to kill time.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@Zster No worries Les, you are still a true intellectual and a cool person, not a smartphone-hugging meathead.

I had a date yesterday with a guy I was talking to on okc back in April.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Good for you. I had a pretty disappointing one yesterday. After trading several long positive messages with her over a few days, we met for coffee and talked for over two hours. She seemed very excited to see me when we met and thru most of the conversation, but I could see her expression change in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@BitFlipper It didn't exactly tickle, but the way I see it, I picked some valuable graduate credits in the dating school of hard knocks from this woman, lol........When I think it thru all the way, the attitude of those women seems like a cop out on their part, like they are claiming they are out of your league, so you shouldn't be messaging them on a dating site. When the real truth may well be, you are too emotionally healthy and genuine for them. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder and depends on who you ask.....

2020 "Zombie" candidates [youtube.com]

THHA comments on Jul 21, 2019:

They are all zombies, and which one ends up in the White House will not stop the endless wars for profit, the corporatocracy, or the fascism . . . . there is only one thing that will, and that is when Americans get fed up with it all, take to the streets, en masse.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

Well, that was sort of tried with the Occupy movement and look how the cops around the country along with Homeland Security managed to crush it pretty quickly once they got their orders from Obama. It appeared to me to be a dress rehearsal for the kind of uprising we need as well as how the fascists would deal with it. The ? is would they be able to crush it as easily if there were millions at each location and would we ever get the kinds of turnout in the streets for mass protests like they do in Europe? I am not hopeful on any of it.

Tim Wise on Twitter: "1/ If the Dems blow this election it will not be because they were "too far ...

altschmerz comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I just got off the phone with my brother. He says don’t try to sway the Trump voters – get the non-voters to vote. He said if everybody in the country who could vote went out and voted, the GOP would cease to exist. Quite a bold assertion ....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

Exactly. You win by nominating a progressive like Bernie or Warren who gives hope to the usual non-voters among the poor and those other non-voters who give up after realizing both parties are corrupt, bought, and only interested in helping the rich and corporations. You don't accomplish that by nominating a corrupt centrist. The non-voters see right thru that. If the Dems really want to win the White House, which I really doubt they do more than stopping Bernie or Warren, they go for turning out the non-voters rather than trying to win over moderate Repubs, like there are any left anyway, and white guys in the middle of the country like Biden claims he can win over. Those latter groups are both a lost cause and not that big a group compared to the tens of millions of non-voters who are begging for a candidate that appeals to them in the general election. I door-knocked for Bernie yesterday and a woman my age told me sadly how she voted for Trump last time even tho she supported Bernie because of how much she hated Hillary and how her people in the Dem party screwed over Bernie last time. She said she hated Hillary more than Trump, but now she really regrets having voted for him. Wow, and I thought I was bitter at Hillary and her crowd..... She said she will vote for Bernie or Warren if they are nominated, but if they aren't she will sit out the gen election on prez. Wow, again.....

I had a date yesterday with a guy I was talking to on okc back in April.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Good for you. I had a pretty disappointing one yesterday. After trading several long positive messages with her over a few days, we met for coffee and talked for over two hours. She seemed very excited to see me when we met and thru most of the conversation, but I could see her expression change in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 22, 2019:

@BitFlipper Same here man. To be fair to her, I asked her, in my reply to her first terse, bland, generic rejection note, to come back with a longer, more specific and substantial explanation, which she did. She seemed to feel I was completely lacking self-awareness and talked all the time, tho I can remember plenty of her her talking and me sitting back, listening, and then coming back with followup ?s. She shared a lot of personal stuff, too, about her former stepkids, her ex, and her divorce, all of which are considered taboo first meeting material by most. So she is by no means perfect either in being appropriate or talking very little and not blaming others for bad things in her life. It was quite educational and she is quite the actress, which I confronted her on in my second reply to her rejection part two letter. I said she is not doing guys any favors by acting so interested in them longer after she has mentally and emotionally checked out and rejected them, all in the interest of "being kind and not hurting their feelings". What crap! She knew a lot of the same people as me as well as my background, so I won't buy into that crap that she still had reason to be afraid of me by being honest with me and hurting my feelings, as if I were likely to stalk her or react hurtfully to her telling me then or excusing herself to leave.

This sums it up, right here.

Ms_McSteven comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Exactly. This is why I refuse to "date" in the traditional sense of the word. My story is way too long and complicated to tell over a beverage, or lunch, or a walk in the park. There are too many landmines which could blow the whole thing up, and then I have to start all over with the next ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven I too hate the "job interview" format to first meetings in dating, but that seems to be what most women in my area want and it won't help my cause to fight that.

I had a date yesterday with a guy I was talking to on okc back in April.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Good for you. I had a pretty disappointing one yesterday. After trading several long positive messages with her over a few days, we met for coffee and talked for over two hours. She seemed very excited to see me when we met and thru most of the conversation, but I could see her expression change in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@BitFlipper Same with me most of the time. They send the rejection note within hours or else they never send anything and just ghost me. Get this, she actually told me in her follow up message to my request for specifics on why she rejected me that " she felt no physical attraction for me based on my profile pics, but wanted to meet with me anyway in person to see if " I might be worthy friendship material for her. Boy is that not only conceited and not very self-aware of how men feel about and react to that attitude, but when she met me she was beaming and really seemed to be acting like she was feeling chemistry for the first hour we were together. Maybe she should be in acting? She also said she only stayed there for over two hours because she doesn't know how to end coffee dates when she isn't feeling any more interest in being with the man. So in meal dates she depends on the check arriving and using that to excuse herself. I won't go into all the critical things she said about my behavior, outlook on people and my life, and how " I " don't seem to have much going on in my life or to have ever really lived much at all". Too bad we all can't be as perfect as her. BTW, she works in Marketing for a non-profit social service agency, imagine that...... The closest thing I can compare her to in entertainment is the very conceited Elaine character on Seinfeld and her standards for which men were " spongeworthy" in that episode about her fav birth control device....

Two people walking in opposite directions, heads down, scrolling on their cell phones, walk smack ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 20, 2019:

I own only a tracphone, not a smartphone, and I only use it when I am away from my home landline. I can self entertain with my own thoughts if I am away from home without company or else bring a book to read while I wait on something or need to kill time.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@Dew25 Damn right. Thank you for validating my curmadgeon attitude...

This is a post in response to another thread where someone was accused of being an ableist for ...

LiterateHiker comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Please post your question without naming me. Everyone has personal preferences. Just be kind to people. A man just messaged me saying I'm "a bit too slender and less curvy than I prefer. You're not my type." That was mean.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@LiterateHiker It goes both ways. No different than me and being bald or not ripped and muscled and in the past being too thin for most women. Suck it up. If it was said in private and you wanted them to comment on your photos, and, by accident, your looks in general, get over it. I would if I were in your shoes and I have had similar comments made here in the open by people who viewed my photos and gave me unsolicited commentary. We are all adults here, woman up a little.

Agnostic Cat Meme of DA DAI 🐱

Booklover comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Oh Grumpy we miss you.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

I worship the late Grumpy over God or Jesus....

This is a post in response to another thread where someone was accused of being an ableist for ...

LiterateHiker comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Please post your question without naming me. Everyone has personal preferences. Just be kind to people. A man just messaged me saying I'm "a bit too slender and less curvy than I prefer. You're not my type." That was mean.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

Maybe he was responding to your earlier request that he view your profile pics and tell what he thought of them, maybe adding TMI innocently. Quite being so thin-skinned.....

Man tries to guilt me into meeting him 2,000 miles away.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I make no secret of my unwillingness to date LD as well as the reasons why not. I guess I should be grateful that I am undateable or unattractive enough that nobody LD has ever tried to push me into meeting them LD, lol....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@LiterateHiker I just tried again. Check your PMs.

Man tries to guilt me into meeting him 2,000 miles away.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

I make no secret of my unwillingness to date LD as well as the reasons why not. I guess I should be grateful that I am undateable or unattractive enough that nobody LD has ever tried to push me into meeting them LD, lol....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@LiterateHiker Long distance. I assume you were being snarky. BTW, what did you think of my PM about your pics?

Man tries to guilt me into meeting him 2,000 miles away.

RickyAdams comments on Jul 21, 2019:

It is what it is. Ive been ignored or rejected by every woman ive shown interest in on here so far. And yea it sucks. And ive wondered what the problem is. Is it my looks, is it my approach, is it something ive put in my profile. But i accept it and move on. Ive never even considered being a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

The sad thing is, like with the woman I met yesterday from Match, is that when they ghost you or just give you a vague, short, generic rejection note, like she did me, you have no data or info to use for learning what was wrong or how to improve anything for the next opportunity with someone new. Mindreading and/or continuing to fly blind on why you are being rejected will not help you change anything that might be improved.... Some people are capable of and interested in being honest and helpful, but most aren't....

Man tries to guilt me into meeting him 2,000 miles away.

Deiter comments on Jul 21, 2019:

*If you didn't want to be so hard to resist you shouldn't've been so hot!* You so fine you able the disabled, if you know what I'm saying. Seriously, I say this as one who I hope is considered an ally, and as a co-creator of two women myself (well, for the data-input part anyway), never a day ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@UUNJ Sorry to hear you are getting so much rejection, but glad to hear it goes both ways. Dieter is right that in online dating most women are unlike you and other women on Agnostic, in being women making the first move in messaging. I get over a 90% rejection rate too of my first messages never being replied to, so I'm glad to hear that it can go both ways genderwise. As for LH, I don't think there's anything inappropriate or biased about rejecting a disabled man for living too far away OR for being disabled when she clearly wants a man who can walk and is fit enough to hike at her level,

I had a date yesterday with a guy I was talking to on okc back in April.

bobwjr comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Sounds good give him a try be cautious I'm in the same boat hoping a future date works out for me hope springs eternal for all of us in the same boat nothing ventured nothing gained

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@ArtzyNerd I'm like you in that, but I don't bounce back quite as quickly. I have another woman to meet after my cruise and I'll meet her early next month.

I had a date yesterday with a guy I was talking to on okc back in April.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 21, 2019:

Good for you. I had a pretty disappointing one yesterday. After trading several long positive messages with her over a few days, we met for coffee and talked for over two hours. She seemed very excited to see me when we met and thru most of the conversation, but I could see her expression change in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 21, 2019:

@ArtzyNerd Same here. But I need someone, obviously, who is either not conservative and either shares my politics or is middle of the road or liberal and doesn't care much about politics for it to work. As this person made it obvious that, like a strongly religious person, they are not willing to be tolerant enough of difference, unlike most of us, if there is much difference in political views. I am going to have a very hard time in my area finding an otherwise compatible woman who shares my socialism and does not have the other usual dealbreakers about religion, family, kids, country music, social drinking, etc. This woman appears to have only had issues around politics and maybe no physical attraction for me, assuming she is being honest about that. I have done this long enough that I can tell usually when I first meet someone if they are attracted to my looks or not when they first see me in person and she seemed to be. She also had my pics in the profile. I really think politics were the barrier this time. I was all in so far and quite willing to accept her difference here. I wish her luck finding another liberal, Agnostic, hipster who loves cats and college sports as well as her type of music, like the Indigo Girls, in my area. She may find the pickings of men like me who are also centrist Dems to be pretty slim.....Oh, well..

Two people walking in opposite directions, heads down, scrolling on their cell phones, walk smack ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 20, 2019:

I own only a tracphone, not a smartphone, and I only use it when I am away from my home landline. I can self entertain with my own thoughts if I am away from home without company or else bring a book to read while I wait on something or need to kill time.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2019:

@Deiter The coverage is better and I don't want to be reachable much of the time away from home. If I want to talk to someone casually, I'll do it from home, where I am most of the time when awake. When I am away from home I am usually busy doing something that needs my attention and I don't want to be reached. If someone needs to pass on info, they can leave a VM on my old school digital answering machine and I will call them back at the times they indicate in their message that they can be reached. Yes, it sometimes leads to phone tag, but I am always home when I say I will be and if they do the same and honor my attempts to call back by picking up at the times they said they would be available, then it all works out. It requires both parties to be responsible and reliable and tells you fairly quick who can be counted on and who can't to honor their word. If I or they are on another call when the other calls, we both have call waiting. It sounds Amish, but like the Amish, I will use tech only as it fits with my principles and how I want to maintain my relations with others, on my terms, not that of the herd.

The Cats Trailer Looks Great, You Weirdos

Mofo1953 comments on Jul 20, 2019:

now if they change the name to Pussies, I might go and see that shit.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2019:

That would be the XXX porn version, lol. I'm old enough to remember the newspaper ads for those, with their names that were a play on the names of mainstream films they were playing off of.

They can sense brain death...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2019:

Forget about brain death. A lot of chronic Fox News viewers make me wonder if they ever had a brain to begin with........

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2019:

@snytiger6 That is a good analogy for it. For that matter tho, most Americans, whether they skew to the left, right, or middle that are part of the sheeple, have never learned critical thinking and just follow whatever their peers subscribe to.

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2019:

@1of5 Totally hear you, bro..

The image is black letters on white: “I don’t need to flirt, I will seduce you with my ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

I could probably use a T-shirt like that. There's a local shop for snarky shirts like that called Raygun. I might call them and see if they could get the rights to that slogan and make me one.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2019:

Like they say, I should always play to my strengths.....