TomMcGiverin's Profile

Do you think it is dysfunctional when 50 YO kids and their parent(s) spend nearly all their free ...

CrazyQuilter comments on Jul 14, 2019:

First of all, my apologies to those who spend a lot of time with their supportive and nurturing families. Yes, I come from a dysfunctional family and I still struggle with understanding ‘what is normal?’ After more thinking, I realize that what I’ve seen is that a few families I have ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

What you describe seems to be a close, functional, but ill-mannered family, at least by my middle class standards. For what sounds like a lower class family, that would not be considered ill-mannered, maybe not even considered ill-mannered by upper class families, but I wouldn't know since I have never partied with any of that crowd, esp. not around their parents. I come from an estranged, splintered dysfunctional family, so I get your points and agree with most of them. Functional or not, honestly close or not, being oriented towards family seems to be very important and mainstream expected in Iowa if you don't want to be seen and rejected as an outcast, esp. in the dating game. So, I have had a lot of blanket rejection since being widowed.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

creative51 comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Depends on your definition of special. I have met some wonderful, interesting and insightful people who are male, female, straight, gay and trans. I consider that special. No I have not met my dream - ideal woman on here, likely because such a woman does not exist in reality, only in my imagination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven Point well taken. I'm not proud of it, but speaking of settling for losers, sometimes, to cheer myself up a little on my dating woes, I watch WE's Love After Lock-Up, to remind myself there are worse things than being rejected across the board on Match, namely trying to date an inmate or ex-con........

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

creative51 comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Depends on your definition of special. I have met some wonderful, interesting and insightful people who are male, female, straight, gay and trans. I consider that special. No I have not met my dream - ideal woman on here, likely because such a woman does not exist in reality, only in my imagination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven Ain't that the fucking truth. Problem is, I don't have alcohol to blind me enough about a woman, as I don't drink, and I refuse to deny the truth, so lowering my standards doesn't work for me either.., not on the few dealbreakers I have on my end, not the woman's end, where most women seem to have way more dealbreakers than me.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

snytiger6 comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I've read that some people have. The sit eis only about 2 years old. I don't think the datign aspect of the site will be all that effective for most persons until the membership has grown more. Still for a site that only a coupel years old it has grown pretty fast. For me this is just a site ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

Actually I think it's at least 3 years old, maybe more. As far as growth, there's been almost none in my local area over the last two years, at least for women my age.....

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

Ms_McSteven comments on Jul 15, 2019:

There are a few anonymous screen names I have a friendly rapport with. I passed up two separate opportunities to meet members face to face. One was someone who decided from my photo and location that he wanted to date me, and I was bothered by that, because I had only been on the site for about a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

I traded messages with two women who live in the same town as me soon after I joined and neither one would meet me. One seemed to be out of my league in looks and the other was average looking. The good looking one made a lame excuse why we weren't a match. The average-looking one simply ghosted me once I suggested meeting. So, I can relate...

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@daylily She is the Raquel Welch for men of my generation who are progressive hipsters who like cougars and, like Raquel, she has aged quite well. Too bad she dumped Tim Robbins, who I also admire, for a younger man. When I was much younger, Raquel was my celeb crush...

Deal-breakers and Red Flags are often discussed here - this is the opposite. Not a bad start?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Those are all positive things, but you have no way of becoming aware of them until you have at least met the person several times in person for dates or meetings. Trading messages with them or even talking on the phone are still so indirect and impersonal that they really won't provide you any clues...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Allamanda I hear your point, but I've lived in Iowa my whole life. I know the culture here way better than an outsider and I am just being honest and realistic about what it's like in my area. You can either take my word on it or not and make of it what you will...A woman, in my local culture, can get away with being a lot more assertive and direct with men early in the dating process, and thus, be able to bring up and evaluate this stuff early. But if a man tries it, he will scare women away, as I described. I know this from experience......Of course, the woman will scare away some men too, but not if, as McSteven above said on another thread, she has an attractive photo, then the men will abide her aggressive approach and give her the data we both are after.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@OwlInASack No worries, Owl. Esp. these days, I tend to be what the Brits call a bit thick when it comes to picking up on snark or tongue in cheek humor. My anger or defensiveness gets triggered easily in ambiguous or impersonal things like text messages or online boards.

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@1of5 I think you totally nailed it, All these women who left failed marriages with divorce ARE intimidated by widowed men, esp. if the women never went to therapy during or after their divorce, because it threatens their whole denial about their fault or role in the failure of their marriage. I was going to write before your reply came out here that it seems to me like many or most divorced women seem more interested in finding another divorced man to date so they can go on thinking that the whole problem was their ex, also have a new man to date who will presumably understand their pain of divorce and want to hear their complaining about their ex, etc. (not that any emotionally healthy, nurturing, and empathetic widowed man couldn't do just as well, even without having been divorced). So, my advice to divorced women would be: If you want to have a better chance at success in your next LTR, try dating a widowed man. If you are more interested in blaming your ex and repeating the cycle, pick another divorced man to date. Plan to be unhappy again, followed by being along again. Better yet, if you are interested in learning something about yourself and maybe not repeat the cycle again, try getting some therapy, then dating a widowed man. Seeing the therapist will give you a chance to also bitch about your ex, but it's more healthy than what most women do, which is not get therapy, then pick another divorced man......... As far as success screwing me over, you're goddamn right I am angry and bitter over that in the dating game. I shouldn't have to prove shit to people that I am ready to date again and can do relationships better than most men. My fucking record proves that, but nobody seems to give a damn or feel like giving me a chance on Match. And it's not because I'm overly picky or always trying to date out of my league on looks either. I worked with a dating coach for a month and she reviewed my activity on Match, saying she was not concerned that I was trying to date out of my league even after I asked her opinion on it.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@JacobMeyers, @OwlInASack With all due respect, Owl, I really like and dig your comments on these boards, but I am no longer some innocent, blindly hopeful kid anymore. I am a fairly depressed, discouraged, older and widowed guy who, as I shared in another thread, was almost broken a few years ago by watching my late wife suffer with dementia and then die. I am just doing my best to get out of bed each day and stay out of it, get out of my apt. and find something to do each day out in the world, see or call my friends each day, etc. I am nowhere near strong and brave enough to take on the emotional and energy strain of trying to date LD, even tho I have the money and the time, being retired. I am not strong enough emotionally to take on all the emotional risk and potential disappointment. It might finally break me if it didn't work out. And even if it did work out, I would probably need to relocate, as nobody from a hipper, more progressive area is going to be interested in moving to Iowa. I know this because all the women on here that I have become friends with have told me so. So that would leave me with having to move away on the hope the relationship worked out and leaving my friends, my whole support system outside the new girlfriend, behind here in Iowa. Sorry, not going to walk the tightrope without a safety net. If the LD relationship tanked, I would have to either start all over in a new town or move back here. Love may be blind, but I'm not. Like I have said before when well-meaning people on here have tried to advise me, I have already done the research and deep thinking about my situation, both with friends and my therapist, and, trust me, I know what I am talking about here for me better than anyone on these boards.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@JacobMeyers You nailed it, Jacob. As for Agnostic, I have no choice but to wait (in vain I believe) for more local women my age to join here. Meanwhile I will continue to use Match, which appears to be the best of the worst of paid dating sites. There are women on here that I would try to date in a heartbeat if they lived in my area. Some I have approached and become friends with, some I haven't. They all know I won't date LD as I make that well known here. Some are interested in being Agnostic pen pals, some aren't. I don't blame those that aren't interested in that. I also totally agree with your point about seeking someone who values character and personality as well as relationships over achievements. A big reason I am estranged from my siblings is that they only value money, success and achievements, instead of relationships, character, and integrity.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@daylily You have it right, it's nothing personal, it's a blanket policy on distance. I wouldn't care if the woman looked like Susan Sarandon, my longtime adult crush, and also shared her politics, like mine, along with liking younger men like me, tho she prefers them looking way hotter than me. I still wouldn't try dating that kind of woman LD.

Deal-breakers and Red Flags are often discussed here - this is the opposite. Not a bad start?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Those are all positive things, but you have no way of becoming aware of them until you have at least met the person several times in person for dates or meetings. Trading messages with them or even talking on the phone are still so indirect and impersonal that they really won't provide you any clues...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Allamanda I get your point and I know what my needs are. But I garuantee you that, at least in my local area, if you try bringing up those kind of things early on in the dating process, like the first several times you see someone or, even worse, while you are trading messages or talking by phone after you connect and before you finally meet, you will scare off any potentially compatible women as you will come off too serious or desperate as a man. Maybe a woman could bring up those things early on and get away with it, but I know a man, at least in my situation, can't. Maybe because Iowa is a very traditional place and, even tho this view may be traditionalist and is not mine, it is the predominant culture here and I have to live with it or work around it in the dating game..unless I chose to date LD, which I won't...

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@1of5 Thank you for the validation and kind words. People who haven't been there as a dementia spouse have no idea what it's like. It does change you forever. It seems like with online dating most women my age who are divorced don't want to try dating anyone who's widowed for the reasons you mentioned, the cynical assumption that the man will never accept anyone else after the spouse's death or, even worse, the assumption that no men are ever done grieving their late wife even a few years after the death. Hellooo? Ever hear of anticipatory grieving? It's what I and most people do while the spouse with dementia is still alive and is necessary for one to cope and maintain one's sanity. By the time the spouse dies, most of the grieving for who they used to be is already done. Man, I wish more women were enlightened about this stuff.... As far as the benefit of having someone whose relationship was successful and happy, rather than a bitter divorce like the majority of women on Match, you're preaching to the choir here, bro. Before I started online dating, I blissfully and ignorantly assumed that most women on paid dating sites would be eager to give me a chance because, with only my marriage to my late wife as my one LTR, that women would be impressed by my better relationship track record compared to most men. But boy was I wrong! It seems like most women, for whatever reason, prefer to stick to the familiar and date only men who are fellow divorcees, even tho they have worse relationship track records. Apparently, being widowed from the only LTR in your history, even a successful happy one, cuts no ice with or impresses no one these days on the paid sites. And that's one reason I am bitter and frustrated by the lack of interest and response on Match...

Deal-breakers and Red Flags are often discussed here - this is the opposite. Not a bad start?

Druvius comments on Jul 15, 2019:

--- Has a cat. ;)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Marionville My late wife got up to 3 cats at one time, so she decided to get rid of them all and not be a crazy cat lady......

Deal-breakers and Red Flags are often discussed here - this is the opposite. Not a bad start?

Druvius comments on Jul 15, 2019:

--- Has a cat. ;)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Marionville Then in my book, you are not yet a crazy cat lady. You are still one cat short of it!

Deal-breakers and Red Flags are often discussed here - this is the opposite. Not a bad start?

Druvius comments on Jul 15, 2019:

--- Has a cat. ;)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Marionville Everybody with cats are good people. Dogs are also good judges of character, better at it than some people, in fact...

Deal-breakers and Red Flags are often discussed here - this is the opposite. Not a bad start?

Allamanda comments on Jul 15, 2019:

on the same note...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

The only one of those I have a hard time saying is WS, mainly because it's hard to pronounce for me.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@OwlInASack Let's hear the suggestion. If it's date LD, then forget it. I will give up before doing that.

So Ive just restarted match.

Cutiebeauty comments on Jul 13, 2019:

I'm not old enough to have an opinion on this subject except to say, I prefer guys my age + - 5 years....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

I think that is probably very common. The younger a person's age, the narrower the age range of who they want to date, and appropriately so, since the younger you are, the less mature most of us are as well as how prepared we are to adjust to what life throws at us, since we have less experience to draw on and guide us. The older and more experienced we are, the better we can understand and relate to someone who is much older or younger, because, at least with most of us, the older we get, the more empathy we are capable of. Most of the very young these days have way less empathy than most who are much older, which is partly a result of age and culture. Empathy can help bridge differences in age within a primary relationship, even tho it will not erase differences in experience.

So Ive just restarted match.

GreenAtheist comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Young boys expect to spend less money upon older women

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

That is probably often or usually true, first, because the older women often have more money than the younger guys, and, secondly, there is probably an expectation that the older woman should expect to "pay" or sacrifice a bit financially compared to how much she would expect an older man to spend on her in exchange for better sex or enjoying a younger man's body......My guess is these are unspoken assumptions on the part of both the younger men and the older women....

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@1of5 I think I understand well your situation with your ex, tho it sounds as if your situation was even more severe than mine was, as well as the toll it takes. My wife was happy, mentally healthy, and had all her marbles before the dementia. Sounds like your ex was mentally ill before the hypoxia. After the dementia, my wife too lost most of who she was after a few years and a few times got upset at what was happening with her and even hit me a few times after getting angry at me. She threatened to divorce me when she had to go to the locked dementia unit from assisted living and living with me. Most people have no idea how traumatic those experiences can be for both the patient and the spouse unless they have been there. It does emotionally break you some. I even had nightmares about it for a few years after. The last couple years I rarely dream about my wife, but when I do, she is normal again, without dementia, and the dreams seem to say that she is ok now in them. Glad things have worked out for your and your life has improved so much. It really does take the love of another person to help most of us recover and heal from being broken, in spite of all this happy talk of needing to love yourself first, etc. Hope someone gives me the kind of chance you got, but I won't hold my breath anymore.......

My sister died yesterday after being sick for 2-3 years.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My condolences. I could not read any Christian text either at a funeral mass. I did speak for a few minutes at my mother's visitation service, but I was allowed to compose that myself so it was authentic and comfortable for me. Like Pam and UUNJ said below, maybe you could suggest to your niece ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@RavenCT That's good and encouraging to know.

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@1of5 My wife's dementia was five and a half years from onset to death. Are you talking about the same woman or someone different when you mention someone still alive and the woman you met from this site and moved with? Did you divorce your first wife, what I and others might call a medical divorce? I am totally agreed that I am scarred and will never be the same after my wife's dementia and death and, yes, it broke me. But I began grieving a few years before she died and finished it at least two years ago. What is breaking me again is the dating struggle with all the rejection and game playing......

So Ive just restarted match.

LiterateHiker comments on Jul 14, 2019:

I want a man near my age. Not interested in a youngster. The Vietnam War, civil rights, women's rights, voting rights, establishment of the Environmental Protection Act, sex, abortion rights, drugs, rock and roll, youth revolution, the assassinations of President John. F. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Lauraleigh39 I'm probably their age, but I love discussing intellectual and historical stuff. You need to find men who are intellectuals and not couch potatoes.

So Ive just restarted match.

Julie808 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

When I was in my 50s, I tried a little bit of online dating. Lots of younger guys 20+ years my junior contacted me. Some were admittedly looking for a sugar mama and some just wanted to add an easy notch on their bedpost, to gain experience, and I'm guessing maybe participating in a game or ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

The vast majority of women in my area from Match who are in their 50s are only interested in dating younger or at most a few years older than them. What that tells me could be one or more of three reasons. One, they are just out to play and have fun, just after sex and not any serious relationship or LTR. Two, it could be they are assuming all men over 60 have ED and don't want to deal with that. Three, they feel the men who are much older than them are too rigid or controlling, not open-minded or flexible enough about how much time the woman needs to make for them around the woman's work and kids, along with the men not being pro-feminist or PC enough for them. Of course, this goes both ways, as men were already doing this long ago, dating only women way younger than them. Doesn't make it fair or right, but it's all about what you have to offer and what you can get in the dating market, whether it's looks, money, or both.....

I wish to share my feelings of joy! I was never looking for this love that filled my life, not ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Happy for you. Wish I still had hope of meeting someone like that for me, but the last two years have pretty much beaten it out of me.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@Neenz Thanks for editing your comment. What site did you meet on? I am still not at all afraid of being who I am, never have been. It's just that no one that I want is buying or wanting to date who I am, so yes, I am negative, because I am not willing to lie to myself or others on how things feel these days with what has happened to me not only in the last two years, but the first 7 of this decade as well....

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@callmedubious Trust me, even at my age, if you don't have a lot of money AND seem like you will gladly spend it being someone's meal ticket or sugar daddy, you had better have a full head of hair and an athletic body to attract any women who are above average or even average-looking. That is what I and several other comparable men my age from my area have learned from online dating. You either need above average money and the willingness to spend it on a woman, not just having financial security, otherwise better have good looks. You wouldn't know because you've been out of the game too long. Things are a lot more crass and shallow nowadays.

{{{originally posted on}}} 6-6-06 (Seriously folks, if you love your faith, Don’t Read This!!!)...

Storm1752 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Don't quit your day job.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

I finally got to in 2018, by retiring.....

{{{originally posted on}}} 6-6-06 (Seriously folks, if you love your faith, Don’t Read This!!!)...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

In the words of the bard, Bob Dylan, in "Positively 4th St.." " You have no faith to lose, and you know it".

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@KKGator If I live to be 80, which I am beginning to doubt (you and I are about the same age, BTW), I'll be happy if I can find my keys and remember who I am and what day it is. But, then again, compared to Bob, I've consumed only a tiny fraction of the weed and booze, not to mention other drugs I never touched, that he has. So there's that to encourage me.... I've been telling my fellow hipster friend my age that my guess is the next superstars to die from the 60s will be Bob and Joni Mitchell, followed sometime after that by Patti Smith, Bob's friend who sang in his place at the Nobel Prize ceremony.

{{{originally posted on}}} 6-6-06 (Seriously folks, if you love your faith, Don’t Read This!!!)...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

In the words of the bard, Bob Dylan, in "Positively 4th St.." " You have no faith to lose, and you know it".

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@KKGator Esp. Bob. He can't even remember the words or chords by heart anymore to some of the songs he wrote......

You know, Oklahoma and Kansas are pretty easy to pick on.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Your travalogue reminds me of the Charlie Daniels song, Uneasy Rider, about how one needs to avoid the whole South to get from east to west. Charlie sang about going from the Northeast to LA and that next time he was going to go thru Omaha, just to avoid the South. I no longer need to deal with OK ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@GuyKeith In OK and KS, the money is kept by the minority of the rich residents and businesses of each state, so they don't have to pay for the welfare of their poorer neighbors and fellow citizens. The really rich have private planes, so they don't care how poor the roads or motels are, less the schools, when their kids probably all go to private boarding schools out of state.

{{{originally posted on}}} 6-6-06 (Seriously folks, if you love your faith, Don’t Read This!!!)...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

In the words of the bard, Bob Dylan, in "Positively 4th St.." " You have no faith to lose, and you know it".

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@KKGator Yup, you're right. I am getting old.....

I wish to share my feelings of joy! I was never looking for this love that filled my life, not ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Happy for you. Wish I still had hope of meeting someone like that for me, but the last two years have pretty much beaten it out of me.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@Neenz I have no idea what you are saying in your final sentence there. Can you clarify or explain? Which site did you meet on? Likely one with no women my age on there, I bet......

Self touring safaris. Sometimes taking your POV isn't the best idea:

HippieChick58 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

I wonder if they know that the smallest ones are the most tender.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

Naw, the scrawny ones are always tougher and less meaty.........

I wish to share my feelings of joy! I was never looking for this love that filled my life, not ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Happy for you. Wish I still had hope of meeting someone like that for me, but the last two years have pretty much beaten it out of me.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@Neenz I appreciate the support and encouragement, but the cynic and rational side of me says that the whole "it only happens and/or always happens after you quit looking" is simply magical thinking. And I gave that up when I rejected religion long ago...... Also consider, Neenz, that I have been on Agnostic for over two and a half years and have yet to meet even one woman from here in person. It definitely ain't going to happen from here with anybody local and I won't put myself thru LD dating again at my age........... Again, congrats.....

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

Ms_McSteven comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My participation here has nothing to do with dating, it's more of a discussion forum. When I was in the online dating world, I always stated I was a non-believer, and it was never an issue for anyone who contacted me. But, I had a nice photo, and they were horny men, so my religious beliefs ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

I agree that religion is used often as a way for people to reject the other person, including in online dating, but that has not been the case in my experience, as, in my experience, the other person has already seen my photos and profile, so they already have decided my looks and being non-religious are acceptable to them before they would reply to me. If they have already seen your photo and still communicate with you, your looks are not the issue with them. Same with being non-religious, as far as being accepted or rejected by women. It was always other reasons once we started trading messages and discussing dealbreakers or met in person to do the same. But you make a good point. Sometimes women have replied to me and said they were not interested. I would ask them why and they would say that it was my being non-religious and my suspicion was that it was really my looks. But how will you ever know?

If dtrumph hates immigrants so much why does he keep marrying them?

bobwjr comments on Jul 14, 2019:

He can own and manipulate them also they are desperate

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

Bingo! American-raised women would usually not tolerate it, unless they grew up in some misogynist religious cult.

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@1of5 Prior to meeting my late wife, in late 1995, none of mine lasted over six months, tho five of them became sexual for a while and of course, none of them involved living together. Pretty discouraging and frustrating, just like now. Except now I'm older, my health isn't as good, I'm bald, and not as attractive looking. Plus, with what I've been thru, it's a lot harder to have hope than when I was younger and more innocent, as well as in better shape and more attractive-looking. About the only pluses of now compared to when I was young are that I am financially secure, retired and not having stress or unhappiness from a bad job, have a much better idea of what I want in a partner and what kind of woman I am compatible with, a much better idea of how to do relationships. I also know myself better and am more secure with myself. Unfortunately, I have never learned how to market or advertise myself well and I don't get nearly enough opportunities to meet single women offline that are viable for being fruitful, nor do I get enough opportunities to meet women from online dating to keep in practice talking to single women. I need Will Smith's Hitch yesterday, lol!

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@1of5 Geez, you sound like my brother in arms. We seem to have followed the same arc in life. I knew I would not be a good father either, like you, and so the kids issue killed any chances of LTRs when I was young. Here in Iowa, being not family-oriented, even with childless women, is a big dealbreaker with women, even tho I have very good reason to not be close with my family, which is now just my siblings left. Women just assume that if you are not close with your family it is all your fault and that you are defective or mentally ill. I can do relationships and a partnership with a woman just fine (which my 18 year marriage proved) and my marriage was happy and great, but nobody seems to want to give me a chance, which is what one woman from Match even said it me after we agreed we weren't a match. Dude, you are my age and live in a much better area for dating when one is a non-religious hipster like us. You should have better odds than me. In fact, you live in the same city as my childhood crush, Jean Maixner, now married and still a childfree hipster. I wish I lived in your dating pool instead of mine. Good luck man......

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

Same with me. Until I met my late wife, who was childfree by choice, like me, at age 37 for me, no women ever wanted to date me seriously or for that long because I didn't want to be a dad or stepdad when I was young. At that time, my late wife was also way older than me, which is why she didn't care about having kids then either. Now that I am older and widowed, my being Agnostic is the biggest, but not the only issue, because I live in Iowa, (even around its largest city) where 75% or more of single women on Match are religious and not open to dating non-religious men. The other issues that impact my efforts at dating are being way out of the mainstream culture and lifestyle in other ways, like being a non-drinker, hating country music, not being family-oriented, and not being big on college sports, the last one being the least important by far....Not being family-oriented, meaning not wanting to see a woman's grandkids or adult kids frequently, is probably as big a reason as lack of religion for me. Even the women without kids seem to want to see their family frequently and have the man come along with them. As it is, childless women my age who are single AND non-religious are very rare in Iowa, maybe a few % at most. It's not quite the needle in the haystack, but it sure feels like it and it's still pretty fucking close to that......

As recently as 30 years ago, America was over 90% Christian.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Same as Christianity losing its numbers in America, you see the same dynamic with white males losing their privilege, they act cornered and get frightened and angry, lashing out at women, gay people, and racial minorities for allegedly taking away their power, status, and jobs. So they vote for ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@Piratefish And I'm tired of your paranoid delusions of being individually and personally persecuted by others. Get some therapy. I agree with your political points, but you take PC way too personally. Enjoy the block.....

I'm not that brave:

HippieChick58 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Yeah, I'm still bigger then they are and have opposable thumbs to open the cat food. I'm still boss.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

Better make sure you keep those opposable thumbs, or the cat will know you are redundant.....

What kind of man do women really want? Nailed it! [youtube.com]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Sounds about right. Translation: It's all bullshit and many women actually have no idea what they really want in a partner, unless maybe they have been to therapy, taken their own notes, and learned something about themselves. Same with most guys (not me tho, I've got the notes and knowledge to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@TheoryNumber3 Something tells me Trump has enough spare change to cover his med costs.

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@callmedubious Trust me, it is important to many women, probably anywhere from 40% to 60%, depending on the age group. And, unlike Bezos, I don't even have my first million yet (and never will have), much less my first billion. I doubt Bezos would do ok with most women if he wasn't rich and famous, based on personality and overall appearance, including baldness.....

Whats it like for members who live in Bible Belts?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

I'm not sure, does Iowa qualify as Bible Belt? I know the South does, but not sure about the Midwest. Somebody help me on that and I'll weigh in if I qualify.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@JeffMesser I hear ya Jeff.....

Whats it like for members who live in Bible Belts?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

I'm not sure, does Iowa qualify as Bible Belt? I know the South does, but not sure about the Midwest. Somebody help me on that and I'll weigh in if I qualify.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2019:

@JeffMesser I looked it up on the web and technically, Iowa is not in the Bible Belt, tho it borders Missouri, which is part of the edge of the Bible Belt. I don't feel qualified then, tho I do feel like an outcast in my area and have felt that way my whole life in Iowa.

As recently as 30 years ago, America was over 90% Christian.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Same as Christianity losing its numbers in America, you see the same dynamic with white males losing their privilege, they act cornered and get frightened and angry, lashing out at women, gay people, and racial minorities for allegedly taking away their power, status, and jobs. So they vote for ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@Piratefish I don't do any of that, and I'm by no means saying that all white men do those things. But it does seem like about all the mass shootings, hate crimes, and Trump supporters are white, so I stand by my criticism. You are entitled to disagree with me. Some people can accept losing their Perceived privilege, and some can't. There is a difference between the two. Perceived privilege, for many white men, is the feeling that they are entitled to jobs, more money and status than women and minorities, for example by being white men. Actual privilege for white men, even poor white men, are things like not getting stopped and shot by cops for being white and male. Or being followed around a store because they are white. Get it?

What kind of man do women really want? Nailed it! [youtube.com]

webbew1 comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Good rule of thumb: Never listen to what a woman says she wants in a man. Always look closely at the type of men she elects to become romantically involved with. That’ll give you your answer.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@webbew1 Quite true. I see lots of profiles on Match spouting the usual PC kind of bullshit about what they are seeking in a man and what the woman is like herself. I have come to put little to no stock into how accurate and honest it is.

As recently as 30 years ago, America was over 90% Christian.

RussRAB comments on Jul 13, 2019:

The reputation of Christianity is being harmed by their support of Trump. We may well see the percentage of American Christians slip from its current 75%. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/evangelical-christians-face-deepening-crisis/593353/

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

I asked my evangelical sister how she could support a godless, pig of a man like Trump without being ashamed as a Christian and she righteously said it's because he supports prayer in schools and is against abortion. Apparently, other issues and the rest of his un- Christian qualities don't matter, which shows how shallow and hypocritical the belief of most Christians are.

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@Athena Thanks for the support. I'll be thinking of you while I smile and wave at the Trumpers while muttering under my breath what fucking assholes they are......

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@Athena Glad you had a happy ending. I've been waiting a couple years now for one with me. More likely than not, I will die before I get one. I'm up early this morning because I will be marching in a local parade with the other Bernie supporters. Should be fun and entertaining, because I live in a suburb full of Repubs and conservative Christians. So I'm sure we'll be getting lots of trash talk and nasty gestures from the Trumpers on the sides of the street.I enjoy baiting them....

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@Athena Of course it goes the other way, but probably only very rarely. Human behavior, like everything else, has a wide spectrum and there are always outliers in any distribution of outcomes or traits. It's a cute story, but it doesn't really refute or change the general trends of behavior and preference. I can go into any bar, restuarant, concert or other public place where there are lots of obvious couples, and only very rarely will I see a so-called mismatch in a couple where one is, say, an 8, and the other is even a 6 or less. Couples generally tend to match up where there is only one or two points difference, at most. And studies have proven this over and over.....

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@JesseBoren It's funny Jesse. I have always been brave enough as an adult to be very honest, but at the same time, I have always been pretty conformist about my appearance, at least my hair, and body. I have never been interested in getting any tats, but even if I was, I would probably not be brave enough to get any visible ones outside my clothes. Same with hair, until the last few years, I was not brave enough to start shaving my balding head either. So I am a paradox, brave about my opinions and feelings, conformist and timid about my body and hair..

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

lerlo comments on Jul 13, 2019:

does she also want you to date jehovah's witness women? pretty shallow if you don't...sorry total b.s You get to date who you want. Pretty sure she doesnt get a say :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@JesseBoren You're a better and stronger man than I am to continue to work with her in a business. In fact, many couples who work together in a small business end up divorcing because of the effects of the business relationship on their marriage.

Reality in ameriKKKa right now.

Marionville comments on Jul 13, 2019:

I can tell you that I personally know of at least six Irish illegal immigrants who are living in the USA...they are the children of friends of mine.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

Same with white Canadians sneaking over the border and living here, not that I understand why any of them would......

As recently as 30 years ago, America was over 90% Christian.

Heathenman comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Okay, To the 2/3rds consensus below. Yes, the numbers seem off, but the numbers are in a state of decline. There is plenty of data supporting this. Yes, the godbots are still the majority, but they are reacting as a cornered animal. Donations are in decline, their existence is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

Right on. I am sick of how most Americans equate religion with being patriotic. As if only fundy Christians can be truly patriotic. True patriots want a country where everyone is free to be who they are and fairness is the primary value, instead of greed and materialism, which, in truth, is what most Americans truly worship, not God.

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@JesseBoren No shit...It's nice if you can be honest with both yourself and others while still be liked and seen as a good person, but if I have to choose, I would rather be seen as an asshole and honest than as dishonest. I take great pride in my honesty and always have. I totally support you on being open about who you are in the dating scene, altho it does limit your opportunities some, tho not with most of the women you really want to meet in the first place. Like Literate Hiker said a while back, you can lie about yourself in your profile, but either once you meet the woman or soon after that, the truth will come out soon and you will be rejected, so what's the point of lying just to gain a meeting with someone who will soon reject you anyway for lying? What does that prove or accomplish, besides that you were successful at getting to meet them? It might be a nice ego stroke, but the feat won't last very long in making you feel good about yourself. And you're also right that being honest with yourself is challenging because, at least at first, facing the truth about yourself is stressful and anxiety-producing, kind of like living without the comfort most people have of their self delusions which make life less scary for them. Like walking the tightrope without the safety net..

Basic Income?

ShadowAmicus comments on Jul 12, 2019:

You first have to decide what is 'better distribution of wealth' If it is to take money from some and give it to others - how do you justify it and how do you do it? You can not place a high tax burden on the wealthy, because the wealthy can move abroad and many will, reducing tax revenue overall...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@ShadowAmicus But since nowadays few employers are willing to train workers on new skills and college costs are too expensive for most workers, how are the workers to get the new skills? The govt. sure isn't going to pick up the cost in most cases, not here in the US.

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Things like hair color and height are really pretty trivial or minor in the eyes of most singles who are looking to date. It's ridiculous that dating sites even used to list eye color of the member as well as what eye color they were looking for in a partner. What really matters, to me somewhat, as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@JesseBoren I again, appreciate your candor. Those on Agnostic who read me are well aware that even tho I am brutually honest, I don't bow at all to being PC when it stands in the way of truthfullness. I welcome the scorn of the knee-jerk PC crowd when I speak uncomfortable truths....People need to realize that a big part of the resentment, distrust, and sometimes hatred between the sexes in the dating game is because of the disconnect between what people say, both online in forums as well as in dating profiles, and what they actually think and want in their real agenda for dating and a possible relationship. Of course, feeling overly entitled and projection are also factors. That disconnect makes people really frustrated, cynical, and bitter, and rightfully so. Being more truthful can only help gender relations in the long term and at least at the macro level, if not also the micro. Many women on Agnostic will say men's body types and amount of hair on their head are not factors, but frankly, I think most of them are lying, either to themselves or others, as I have talked to plenty of bald men with average bodies who seem to have plenty going for them as dateable, but still get little interest on dating sites. The only possible explanation other than dishonesty of women on Agnostic is the women on here being extreme outliers compared to women on paid dating sites, which is possible, but unlikely in my opinion. I guess the only way we could really test that would be to find out what % of women on Agnostic who say these factors don't matter are also active on paid dating sites. Even then, it would only give us a small glimpse as the sample size would be tiny compared to membership of the paid dating sites. That's one poll I am not eager to post........

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

Apunzelle comments on Jul 12, 2019:

You like what you like. There must be real attraction if you have hope for true passion and chemistry.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@JesseBoren Exactly. There are women I was longtime friends with that I would trust with my life and really care for, but with their body type, I would never feel any attraction, tho I really loved them emotionally.

My ex keeps telling me I'm shallow because I will only date women who are small.

Athena comments on Jul 12, 2019:

I see a lot of the comments here stating "you like what you like." I agree, that we all have certain preferences. However, we could be closing ourselves off to people we might find attractive, under the circumstances that we give them a chance. For example, people will often end up with a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@JesseBoren Your comment speaks volumes, is brutally honest, which I really admire and respect. I also think most men share your view, whether most women on here want to hear it or not.....If the woman you are with long term stops taking care of herself by choice, gains a lot of weight, and you are no longer sexually attracted to her, you are faced with a choice of being unhappy and unattracted the rest of your life if she won't change. In that situation, the choice is up to the individual person, stay or leave. I haven't ever faced that type of situation really, as my late wife became involuntarily terminally ill and I took my marriage vows seriously as well as continued to love her emotionally to the end. I have run across one or two people in online sites that have openly said they are seeking someone to date as their partner lies in a nursing home with dementia. That was not and would never be my choice, but I fully understand and respect their choices there. There is a balance between loyalty as long as the other person is also making their effort and doing their best, but there is also the cold fact of having only one time around in life and not spending it with many years of predictable misery or unhappiness due to a bad relationship.

It seems like everyone complains there are no honest politicians, but if a politician tells it like ...

QuidamOutrepont comments on Jul 12, 2019:

It's hard to get money to get elected when you're too honest.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

Sanders has proven you can fund a presidential campaign without selling out. The problem is you can't run as a Dem and be allowed by the party to be their nominee without selling your soul...I really wish he had taken the Green Party offer to be their nominee after the Dems screwed him last time. He would have had the money to compete, easily.......

Basic Income?

ShadowAmicus comments on Jul 12, 2019:

You first have to decide what is 'better distribution of wealth' If it is to take money from some and give it to others - how do you justify it and how do you do it? You can not place a high tax burden on the wealthy, because the wealthy can move abroad and many will, reducing tax revenue overall...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@ShadowAmicus In a city near me there is a production plant of a company that used to be called Ball Containers. They made glass and plastic jars, bottles, etc. The plant is now almost completely automated, with a few humans around doing the repair and maintainence you describe. It was a net loss of hundreds of jobs...

Basic Income?

ShadowAmicus comments on Jul 12, 2019:

You first have to decide what is 'better distribution of wealth' If it is to take money from some and give it to others - how do you justify it and how do you do it? You can not place a high tax burden on the wealthy, because the wealthy can move abroad and many will, reducing tax revenue overall...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

@ShadowAmicus That's not at all happening this time. The jobs are being eliminated and few or no new jobs are created by the tech changes. Most of the new or open jobs these days are in so called low skill or low wage jobs like food service or home health care, at least until those jobs are eliminated for robots. We now have driverless trucks and trains, for example, and no new jobs are created with the changes, only a net job loss.....

Basic Income?

ShadowAmicus comments on Jul 12, 2019:

You first have to decide what is 'better distribution of wealth' If it is to take money from some and give it to others - how do you justify it and how do you do it? You can not place a high tax burden on the wealthy, because the wealthy can move abroad and many will, reducing tax revenue overall...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2019:

You are ignoring how AI and robotics are eliminating jobs. All the education in the world is not going to provide most people with an income in the middle part of this century. The neighbor working 2 jobs is not who'd be supporting him. It would be the billionaire owning the companies that are eliminating jobs thru automation and thus saving on benefits and Social Security payments for workers. Let the billionaires move away if they like, but also restrict their ability to come back and visit the US for business or pleasure as well as being able to own homes here. That might well cut down on the number of tax-dodging expatriates...... Your Agnostic group memberships are hidden in your profile, but I'm guessing you're a conservative...

Basic Income?

Seminarian comments on Jul 12, 2019:

I see that increasing the tax on the wealthy is far behind in the poll. It is absolutely necessary however. The power gap created by the under taxing of billionaires has not only directly led to dangerous levels of income disparity, it also has several less obvious but even greater indirect ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 12, 2019:

I agree with you about the future of America being total collapse, followed by violent revolution. However, I am not hopeful about the good guys and the common people winning that revolution. What I predict is that instead, after the total economic collapse we get a military crackdown with martial law on the part of the feds, Homeland Security, the US Army and National Guard, all crushing any protest (similar to what the local police and the feds did to crush the Occupy movement years ago) against a fascist takeover with no more charade of democracy and elections. The fascists will come out in the open with members of both the Repub and Dem parties serving as members of a one-party dictatorship controlled by the rich and corporations, as is our present system. If you want to see the film version, check out the Purge movie series. The movie series's New Founding Fathers Of America Party already exists and its members are the corporate pols in DC of both parties. I only hope I am dead by then.....

I've been wondering for a while if most of us on Agnostic are mostly estranged from our families of ...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Jul 11, 2019:

I am not estranged from what is left of my family.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 12, 2019:

@Gwendolyn2018 Agreed. My family is very concerned with appearances and conformity. They would see it as an embarrassment to them and relentlessly nag one about changing your appearance to suit their wishes for conformity and respectability. I know that is the definition of dysfunction, that they see you as an extension of themselves instead of a separate individual, but that's how they are, instead of supportive or respectful of one's right to be themselves. Like Deb said, you are lucky to have had a functional, supportive family.

I've been wondering for a while if most of us on Agnostic are mostly estranged from our families of ...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Jul 11, 2019:

I am not estranged from what is left of my family.