Estranged from family members... anyone experience this?

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 20, 2019:

My transition from xian to atheist didn't have any effect on any relationships. My kids were already non believers, non of my sibs are believers or were simply social xians. They went to church for community, not because they believed. My parents were not strong believers, and they have already ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

You were luckier than most of us with our families of origin. I am happy for you!

How can we encourage people to be more honest about their agnosticism?

Kafirah comments on Apr 20, 2019:

To openly declare yourself agnostic or atheist in today's religious climate requires a certain level of courage most do not possess. The courage to lose everyone in your life that matters. The courage to be an outcast among your peers. The courage to stand against the world alone. The courage to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

Coming out these days as a non-believer takes a similar courage to coming out as LGBT was maybe a decade or two ago as far as the non-acceptance, likelihood of rejection and retaliation, not that coming out as either is ever easy these days. Most people don't have the courage and that's why a lot of our society is filled with people that don't have integrity or courage and know they are living a lie in some way by conforming to the mainstream. If most people had that kind of guts, our mainstream values and lifestyles might be very different than what we see now. But most people are more content to conform than be authentic in how they live and how they are known to others.

I haven't been here much lately.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

How did you meet him, on Agnostic? I would be very surprised if you did. Is he long distance or local? Seeing your location on your bio, I'm guessing he is LD and from Agnostic. His traits are so offbeat and rare among the general pop,, it sounds like you found a unicorn.....In my local area, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

@SkotlandSkye So you are widowed like me? I went to support group for widowed people for several months, but quit going after that because, one, they all seemed very traditional and conformist, compared to me and most Agnostic.com types, and secondly, almost all the women were way older in their age or their thinking and acting. So I didn't see the point in continuing. Their informational programs at each meeting were boring and not telling me anything I didn't already know about grieving or widowed life. So the only two reasons to stay would have been to meet someone for dating or get support from the group. It was clear to me that neither of those were ever going to happen for me with all the cultural and age diffs between me and the group. Glad you ran into a better group that had at least one cool, hipster type in it. That was never going to happen for me in Des Moines Iowa.

BUTTIGIEG IS FULL OF SH-T -- Seeing as how PB is surging in the polls based, I believe, on ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Mayor Pete is being promoted by the corporate media and the Dem party's leaders and establishment as the golden boy because it's all part of a move by those groups and the Dem's big money donors to stop Bernie at all costs without having to kill him or attack him directly. So, yes, there is nothing ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sgt_Spanky Same here.I know my enemies, and who I can trust or not as a socialist and progressive by the company they keep. If Wall Street, corporate America, the corporate media, the Dem leaders and establishment, and the big money donors all hate and fear Bernie, then I know that he's the right one for me and is on my side. Same with Pete and the company he keeps and who supports him tells me he is not on my side and not to be trusted.

BUTTIGIEG IS FULL OF SH-T -- Seeing as how PB is surging in the polls based, I believe, on ...

A2Jennifer comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Bernie would be better for the progressive cause *IF* he could get elected but it’s centrists and independents that will swing the election and I would rather have literally anyone who will beat Trump than have my ideal candidate lose to him.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

He would, of course, have all the corporate media against him as well as possibly even the Dem party against him, but if Bernie got into the presidential debates he would wipe the floor with Trump, as would have Nader if he had ever got the chance during the times he ran. The reason Bernie could still win after that even if the groups I mentioned were against him is that his message of hope and actually fighting for the poor and working class would motivate most of those who don't vote anymore because they are poor and feel otherwise not represented or cared about by either party, and thus, we would suddenly have 75% or higher, maybe 90%, of eligible voters turn out. And Bernie would get most of those former non-voters. We normally get about a 50% turnout in a prez election and that's because the groups I mentioned have figured out that neither party cares about them and given up voting. Before the 1970s, we used to have way higher turnouts, but then the Dems lost credibility with those groups so they stopped voting.

I haven't been here much lately.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

How did you meet him, on Agnostic? I would be very surprised if you did. Is he long distance or local? Seeing your location on your bio, I'm guessing he is LD and from Agnostic. His traits are so offbeat and rare among the general pop,, it sounds like you found a unicorn.....In my local area, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@SkotlandSkye Still didn't say how you met him. Online, chance meeting in public, at a gym, what? You are correct that you beat overwhelming odds in meeting someone so compatible so close by in OK.

When I was small, growing up on a Haiti mission in the 1950s and 60s, we children sometimes played ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

If I had your psychic ability I would use it to track down the one or few people in my area that were compatible for me to date and mentally influence them to want to meet me. By that logic you should already have found your match(es).

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@birdingnut I think we are very different from each other that way, you and I. I will leave it at that and respectfully disagree with you.

I was flipping through channels and briefly paused on the ID channel (true crime.

wordywalt comments on Apr 19, 2019:

White southern cordiality extends only to fellow white believers and defenders of the conservative and racist southern order. I know, as I grew up in the rural south, and saw the same all throughout the region.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

I believe you and it's all as phony as "Iowa Nice" in my state. It's mean-spirited and judgemental hidden behind fake politeness and a smile, all of which disappears as soon they discover you are different than them. I have rejected it my whole adult life as an Iowan. It is also a companion of the Midwest-wide norm of enforced politeness, in which you are a terrible person should you ever be really honest, confrontational, or assertive in a social setting.

Just to Note: I think I was just Blocked by someone.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

According to my current count, I have now blocked 11 people and am probably blocked now by at least half that many or more. I really no longer care about either of those things. I have strong opinions and I state them on the boards without mincing words. Nowadays, on Agnostic, it seems like many ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Deiter Now you know...

Just to Note: I think I was just Blocked by someone.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

According to my current count, I have now blocked 11 people and am probably blocked now by at least half that many or more. I really no longer care about either of those things. I have strong opinions and I state them on the boards without mincing words. Nowadays, on Agnostic, it seems like many ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Deiter With me personally or on the boards in general?

Are there any elementary education teachers out there?

Deiter comments on Apr 19, 2019:

This discussion has become a battlefield. Some see it as a denial of their right for existence. And don't think the Right Wing media isn't lapping it up. Good luck with that! https://youtu.be/4WEnYPIrfb4

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Deiter Hell, I've seen and even got caught up in dramas like this on these boards before. No wonder I end up having to block as many as I have. Same kind of intolerance as in the video.

The joys of dating. 😞😝

maturin1919 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

It's like that in your 30s too.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

I can believe that too. I dated unsuccessfully for 20 years, usually wanting an LTR without any success, before I met my late wife. Mainly couldn't find an LTR or anyone compatible because I didn't want kids or someone who already had them. So that dealbreaker made it impossible, esp. here in Iowa, where being childless by choice is very rare and seen as just as weird and immoral as being a non-believer, esp. during the ages when most people are wanting and having kids together.

Just to get through Friday.

Petter comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Last time I bought what is within out into the world I got arrested for indecent exposure!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Glad I'm retired. Any day can now be a vacation and I also now have the money to travel on one. Just need to find a traveling companion or book a trip for singles.

Are there any elementary education teachers out there?

Deiter comments on Apr 19, 2019:

This discussion has become a battlefield. Some see it as a denial of their right for existence. And don't think the Right Wing media isn't lapping it up. Good luck with that! https://youtu.be/4WEnYPIrfb4

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

Some people need to grow a thicker skin. This video showed how the role of SJW and aggrieved victim can be taken to the point of the absurd. It was almost like an old Monty Python sketch for absurdity. Well done as always my friend..

Just watching 2nd marriage go down the toilet, thinking, really?

Aryn comments on Apr 18, 2019:

They say , “All the good ones are married.” Are you one of the good ones? Can I get my order in early?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

I hope all the good ones aren't married, because right now I'm still a little too young for most of the widows in my area and I really don't want to have to wait a few more years or more until more of the husbands die off.......

Just watching 2nd marriage go down the toilet, thinking, really?

MaxPower comments on Apr 18, 2019:

I still believe marriage licenses should be renewable. Lawyers would be minimum wage. Even 4 year renewals would cut divorce and spousal murder rates down. Its too bad "god" choose trump instead of me to lead this nation.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@MaxPower What is ASD?

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 I can imagine, just like acting. So many talented people trying and so relatively few that ever get rich out of it or even make enough dough to quit their day job, for that matter.....

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 I've heard that most other musicians aren't either. Except maybe the relative few who become big, wealthy stars......

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 As Kurt Vonnegurt would say, like I give a flying fuck what most other people think about my patriotism or lack of conformity......

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 We are a tiny minority, at least in most areas of the US. I now have the money to live much less cheaply than ever before, but I doubt I will change much in my habits or lifestyle, except maybe start taking a few nice trips each year.

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

The pool in my area is fairly deep, as long as you are mainstream in your culture and lifestyle, but if you aren't, like me and most people on Agnostic, who are non-religious, hipsters, not very family-oriented, intellectual, etc., it really is more like a puddle. Esp. when in my case you also add in non-drinker as well, not matter how tolerant and open-minded I am about it. Not being very materialistic doesn't help at all either. The pool on Agnostic is very wide, but about an inch deep, so it's all LD or nothing on here for most of us.

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Why does Jewish have anything to do with the story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@sassygirl3869 I'm not surprise to hear that Lisa. You're probably better off, like most women, from having stayed away from them.

Are we great again yet?

greyeyed123 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Our local news station (owned by conservative Sinclair Broadcast Group) really went all out to spin it all in Trump's favor. The only negative thing they reported was Trump saying "I'm fucked", but they buried it so far into the story that it seemed as if Trump was being persecuted, not blurting ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

What, you mean that repulsive piece of slime got "fucked" by a woman other than his wife where he didn't actually have to pay her? I must have missed some details in the news or maybe I'm not getting the context.... ( sarcasm alert)

Are we great again yet?

SeaGreenEyez comments on Apr 18, 2019:

That is definitely a Trump Supporter personified. She put a bumpersticker on her hat. Oy vey. *smh* (After looking at her again, I'm wondering if that's actually Michael Moore in disguise.) 😛

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I resemble that remark, since I've often been told that Michael Moore and I seem to share the same wardrobe most of the time, except when he wears a suit or a suitjacket (we are both men who dress like slobs and are not great-looking) as well as wearing ballcaps when it's warm outside. I have to say that Michael is noticeably better looking than her, so don't go hating on Michael like that, lol! Even if I do get frustrated sometimes with his tendency to compromise with the Dems on politics. Looking at this pic of the Trumper gal reminds me of that movie Shallow Hal, as in very unattractive inside and out..., esp. inside....

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Why does Jewish have anything to do with the story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@BufftonBeotch I agree. The repetition was needless and annoying. After finishing the story, I came away feeling that neither she or the doctor were any real prize for someone to date.

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Why does Jewish have anything to do with the story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I believe that the woman telling the story was Jewish, so it was a big deal for her to have found someone Jewish to date. She also seemed to think it was a big deal to date a doctor. See my comments below regarding that part.

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

Boxdoc comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Some, but not all, men are attracted to women with large breasts regardless of their personality. They are looking for someone attractive to mate with. Some, but not all, women are attracted to men with large wallets regardless of their personality. They are looking for someone to provide for them....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

And it's also the truth, as I have seen it. Thanks for the blunt honesty.

IF I HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN -- I'd be a teen heartthrob like Justin Bieber was.

altschmerz comments on Apr 17, 2019:

I tried to listen to a couple of Justin Bieber songs. They were absolute rubbish. Worst "music" I've ever heard. I doubt he would have gotten anywhere if he didn't have looks.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@altschmerz Well, I already know some of the songs I want at my memorial service. And they include Hallelujah with Leonard Cohen's own version. What's Good by Lou Reed, and a few others that don't immediately come to mind. It will all be pretty offbeat stuff.

IF I HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN -- I'd be a teen heartthrob like Justin Bieber was.

altschmerz comments on Apr 17, 2019:

I tried to listen to a couple of Justin Bieber songs. They were absolute rubbish. Worst "music" I've ever heard. I doubt he would have gotten anywhere if he didn't have looks.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

His appeal was always about his looks, unlike, say Elvis, or Springsteen, who could both really sing well when they were young. They both had way more talent than him and better songs. In Elvis's case, he used the best songwriters around for some of his songs.

Poll: Church membership in US plummets over past 20 years. A look at the numbers. | News | omaha.com

IAJO163 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Black churches will continue to be full because everybody will come for the show!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I don't think the show is all of it. Another big part is that for many black folks, the church is also more of a source of support and aid to the black community than white churches are for white folks. In other words, for blacks, the church may also serve as sort of a United Way/SalvationArmy/Human Services agency for its members, not just as a place of worship and entertainment. But I'm just a white guy going by observation, research, and second hand info...

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

Hathacat comments on Apr 18, 2019:

That's a funny story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I agree, it's not funny. This woman made a fool of herself and let herself get used by a jerk who (figuratively, pun intended) blew her off after she did (blew off) him. Not funny at all, but what do I know, my recent dating career is a disaster....

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

He sunk himself. He couldn't get black voters. lf you are a Dem and don't get the black voters support, you won't win. Don't forget, he is not a Democrat. He is a registered Independent. I like Bernie, but he fucked himself, and I will vote for which ever person gets the nomination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@Sticks48 I hope you are right about Bernie not being taken out, but I won't hold my breath if he gets too close to power. I agree with you about the Repub estab. wanting anyone but Cruz or Trump for the nomination last time.

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

He sunk himself. He couldn't get black voters. lf you are a Dem and don't get the black voters support, you won't win. Don't forget, he is not a Democrat. He is a registered Independent. I like Bernie, but he fucked himself, and I will vote for which ever person gets the nomination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@Sticks48 Sticks I honestly don't think going after them more or differently would have helped Bernie or made any diff in 2016 with most black voters. Their group loyalty to Bill was too strong and they were going to support Hillary no matter what over Bernie because she was married to Bill, even tho I think that whole relationship is a fraud/charade based on convenience and political ambition, but that's another discussion...I really hope Bernie succeeds this time, but I'm a born cynic and I also wouldn't be surprised if Bernie suffered a convenient heart attack (with some help from the powers that be) if he did get the nomination, got close to the general election, or won the general election. Also, after seeing what happened to Mel Carnahan and Paul Wellstone, I would advise Bernie to start staying away from small aircraft. Call me paranoid, but I have seen too much history of what happens to people who buck the status quo too much and piss off the wrong evil people, like Cheney, for example....

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

cava comments on Apr 18, 2019:

"Bernie Sanders because hindsight is 2020." It appears as though Dem establishment money is falling behind Mayor Pete https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/17/pete-buttigieg-enlists-barack-obama-hillary-clinton-fundraisers-for-2020-campaign.html

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

It figures, all the same people who supported the corrupt Hillary and the equally corrupt, lying fraud Obama, both corporate Dems, would be behind Pete, so even more reason for progressives to distrust Pete. They'll probably succeed in screwing Bernie again, with the help of the corporate media as well, from getting the nomination and Trump will win, which is what the Dem leaders and their big money and corporate donors really want. Which is why I never feel bad for them or their centrist supporters when they lose to the Repubs in a prez election. Because they get what they really deserve and were asking for.

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

He sunk himself. He couldn't get black voters. lf you are a Dem and don't get the black voters support, you won't win. Don't forget, he is not a Democrat. He is a registered Independent. I like Bernie, but he fucked himself, and I will vote for which ever person gets the nomination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

Sticks I really like and respect you man, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Here's why: Yes, I totally agree that a candidate for the Dem nomination has to have about all the support from black voters in the primaries to win the nomination and Bernie didn't have that, tho he did have the support of a lot of black women in the nursing unions because of his support for single payer health care. But it wasn't his fault or anything he did that cost him the support of most blacks for the nomination. It was the fact that he was running against Bill Clinton's wife, who most blacks were going to support instead of him no matter what Bernie did, out of longtime loyalty to Bill, who was always very popular with blacks, had many blacks serve in his administration, and many personal friends who are black. Their group loyalty and support was transferred to Hillary, that simple. As I remember it, back when Bill was prez, he was seen by many blacks as the unofficial "first black president".

Agree or disagree?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

Would be nice, but it now seems pretty unlikely. Seems like few singles take the opportunity after a divorce or breakup to get some counseling or therapy so they go right back out to the dating market without taking a look at themselves, learning anything new about themselves or how to treat others,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 It seems like nowadays the women don't talk about having emotional scars in their profile essays. Maybe they did in the last century on dating sites, but I wouldn't know as I was married then.

Agree or disagree?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

Would be nice, but it now seems pretty unlikely. Seems like few singles take the opportunity after a divorce or breakup to get some counseling or therapy so they go right back out to the dating market without taking a look at themselves, learning anything new about themselves or how to treat others,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Trust me, it has changed a lot since then, except for the fact that most of the profile essays in my area say the same things. One diff is that they all want a social drinker, not a sober man. The walking on the beach part is still there, along with wanting a family man with kids who likes to travel and is a non-smoker. They aren't looking for instant sex, but don't indicate they want a shoulder to cry on Employment is also desired. Wait a minute, did I say things had changed, lol? Thank goodness the speedos are at least gone.....

White Privilege Is it real? Please answer honestly.

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 17, 2019:

*Of course* white privilege is real. As a white person, I don't worry about: 1. Being harassed, beat up or called racist names due to the color of my skin. 2. While driving, get stopped by police for no reason, and fear being shot and killed. 3. Discriminated against in housing, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

Well defined Kathleen....

Agree or disagree?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

Would be nice, but it now seems pretty unlikely. Seems like few singles take the opportunity after a divorce or breakup to get some counseling or therapy so they go right back out to the dating market without taking a look at themselves, learning anything new about themselves or how to treat others,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Well, I can only speak about the women's profile essays, since I've only seen a few of the men's, just checking out the competition once in a blue moon. Didn't get the impression that these women were hoping to get laid quickly after meeting men, but your point could well apply to most of the men's essays. I wouldn't know..... Maybe your point is that by projecting the attitude that the person is perfect to the members viewing their profile and that their failed relationship was all the fault of the other party, they will look more attractive and get laid. That does sound inept, but quite plausible. Please clarify I have this right.

Are you a ritual defier?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

I really don't notice or care about trivial things like that. I probably do a lot of things in the course of a day that are done in a ritual manner of the same way every time, but I'm oblivious to it.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

@azzow2 What is li?

White Privilege Is it real? Please answer honestly.

Neenz comments on Apr 17, 2019:

A friend once told me that we don't know what privilege we have till we lose it or step away from it. But how do we do so? He said beautiful people don't understand that power they have till they stop being beautiful if someone treated them fair they think the person is being rude because it's ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

Thank you for mentioning that the beautiful and great-looking also have a form of privilege and power in the world, esp. in the dating game, even tho they and many other people who aren't great-looking seem unaware of this or refuse to acknowledge it. But I have seen it countless times in person and it's there. You're also right on the overall point, most are never aware of their privilege until they lose it. Stepping away from it and walking in the other person's shoes is something few will be willing to do voluntarily. Most people are too selfish and won't leave their comfort zone.

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@Moravian Your opinion is noted and still disagreed with. I am not talking about politicians, I am talking about oligarchs and the ultra-rich, if they can be gotten to. Those people will never allow peaceful revolution to happen. They will instruct their bought politicians to crush the peaceful attempts at revolution thru the military and security forces the same way they did the Occupy Wall Street movement's camps. If you want to see a preview of the future should peaceful revolution be attempted by protests, there it was......

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@Moravian I don't think the rich and their politicians are going to allow that. That's why I mentioned assassinations. Maybe you are naive or I am too cynical. Time will tell.

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@Moravian Yeah, nationalism, racism, and xenophobia are all running well all over the globe as the oligarchs and their puppet politicians divide and conquer the masses during globalization's rein of terror over the planet by pitting one racial group or country against another. While all the billionaires gather at Davos and laugh at the suckers who fall for it and leave them blameless instead of fighting back against them with revolution or targeted assassinations.

Cute and funny! Watch the cats reaction. [youtu.be]

orange_girl comments on Apr 16, 2019:

That bird is pushing their luck. LOL

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Kitty is ready to pounce if the bird weren't behind glass, with how that tail is wagging.

I really don't get it.

Lorajay comments on Apr 16, 2019:

Manipulation of the ego has always been very effective. People never want to feel like their bad luck is there fault. When it's obvious to a person that they are not special they readily accept the race issue so that they can hold on to some Glimmer of Pride.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@OwlInASack Thank you. LBJ, in some ways, was a great prez as he passed Medicare and Medicaid, along with all the Great Society anti-poverty programs. Also the Peace Corps (with JFK) and VISTA programs, the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. He also was pretty sharp for a guy born dirt poor in the hill country of east Texas who went to the state's teacher college instead of an Ivy League college like most of his political peers. If it weren't for Vietnam, he would be seen as one of the great American presidents.

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Yeah, MAGA never fooled me. Should have had the guts to call a spade a spade and say it was Make America White Again, but wouldn't have sounded so high-minded and patriotic. All about the advertising angles.

I really don't get it.

Lorajay comments on Apr 16, 2019:

Manipulation of the ego has always been very effective. People never want to feel like their bad luck is there fault. When it's obvious to a person that they are not special they readily accept the race issue so that they can hold on to some Glimmer of Pride.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Yup, that is why poor white trash, so to speak and rednecks fall for racism and all the Trump crap because it appeals to their anger and white pride so they can feel that glimmer of hope and pride that they are still better than others who are black or brown. As former president LBJ once said, "If you can make the trashiest poor white man feel that he is still better than the best black man, he won't notice while you are picking his pockets". Truer words were never spoken......LBJ said that back in the 60s and it's just as true today....

What is the proper wait time etiquette when hooking up with someone who your friend likes?

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Why not ask the woman if she wants to meet you for coffee or a meal? She can say yes or no.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@McWalsoft I never had kids, by choice, so we have that in common, as well as the interests in sports, politics, news, etc., but we obviously hang with very different crowds, probably related to our age difference. But I still think we are a world apart on attitudes towards women. I do give you props for never cheating on anyone, that's better than most men out there, but that may be related more to how you don't really do relationships on a regular basis either. As far as the drunk girls and those on the rebound tho, have to disagree with you on whether they really are that independent, strong, wanting to have fun and enjoy life responsibly or whether that is just a self-serving rationalization on your part to justify you getting what you want. I hope that you are able to get what you are after without causing hurt to anyone, including yourself, but I won't be surprised if that happens. Hope you don't end up, like you say, on the news or in jail someday for a sexual assault charge. My other advice is, like the Trojan commercial, Always Wear Your Life Jacket......Also, while you're at it, since you aren't interested in having kids, a vasectomy might not be a bad idea either.......

What is the proper wait time etiquette when hooking up with someone who your friend likes?

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Why not ask the woman if she wants to meet you for coffee or a meal? She can say yes or no.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@McWalsoft I think we live in very different, but parallel worlds, man......I respect that you are honest and open about what you want and who you are. That's all I can really ask of others in dialoguing. After reading the rest of the thread, I have to say that, for me, you and I could still never be friends because, even tho it looks like you are putting your friendship with Joey first over the fling, I am just too different in my values about women to be ok with your dealings with women and being such a player. I would not be comfortable with a friend that rolled that way and you would not with someone as old school and moralistic as me. Many years ago I heard a guy your age talk about what you are looking for with this woman. He used the term "sport fuck". This was back in the late 80s. Another guy in the discussion called him out on it and said, "Hey man, if I ever heard you say that about having had a sport fuck with my sister, I'd punch you in the fucking mouth!". I get your point about having heard that she wanted that, but I hope you get my point about respecting women in general and maybe giving her a break since she is on the rebound and may not be making good decisions right now. Would you take advantage of a drunk woman at a bar that was too drunk to consent? My guess would be "yes". See the similarity?

Are you happy?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

No, I'm not. I'm actually worse than when I was watching my late wife suffer and die because back then I at least had some hope that I would meet someone else later and had more support in my life than now from friends. Now that I've been widowed two years and been alone for that long, my friends ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@BeeHappy Thank you Bonnie. You can always message me if you like. I guess that's why, personally, I refrain from offering advice to others on Agnostic about mental health issues that I am not experienced in or that are very complicated. I am afraid of speaking in ignorance to others, even with the best intentions, because I know how that feels on the receiving end.

Are you happy?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

No, I'm not. I'm actually worse than when I was watching my late wife suffer and die because back then I at least had some hope that I would meet someone else later and had more support in my life than now from friends. Now that I've been widowed two years and been alone for that long, my friends ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@BeeHappy With all due respect, I am not still grieving the loss. My wife lost her personality and most of her cognitive functioning about three years before she died. I began my grieving back then as well as also beginning to emotionally withdraw from her for my own protection. I was doing much better two years ago and had already finished most of my grieving when she died. My depression is about all the rejection in the dating scene and my loss of hope about ever having a partner again. Unless you have lost a spouse to dementia, which is a very different process than other terminal diseases, you don't understand my experience. I have been ready to date for some time. The problem is few will give me a chance and I don't have enough support and socialization in my life. So the rejection in the dating scene is overwhelming. It has nothing to do with unfinished grieving. BTW, my therapist agrees with this and has been working with me since 2015. She also lost an older sister to dementia and has been in practice 30 years, so I think she knows a bit more. So yes, Bonnie, I may be too depressed by now to not turn off women in person, but I was not that way before I started getting rejected so much over the last 18 months and it is not related to grief. It is related to rejection, isolation, and lack of hope. Or maybe not. Two weeks ago I met a woman at a stage play and chatted with her afterwards about the play. I looked her up on FB and sent her a message thanking her for the chat and that I was glad to meet her. She sent me a friend request and we chatted some more, discovering that she was a little too young for me and that she wasn't open to dating anybody at this time, but wanted to be friends. So maybe you are just assuming too much about me.

Are you happy?

Ron_R comments on Apr 15, 2019:

A take on John Lennon's quote perhaps? “When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down 'happy'. They told me I didn't understand the assignment, and I told them they ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Lennon was one of my cultural heroes and role models. Working Class Hero is my anthem....

Are you happy?

josh_is_exciting comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Ebb and flow. Many people ask "how're you doing?", it's interesting to see how different people respond when you genuinely open up and reveal difficulties you're dealing with. I'm doing pretty well right now, could be better, could be worse. How are you? :) I knew a guy once, he really ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

He's pretty fucking rare. With almost everyone, it's a mere formality of politeness, like How's the weather. Few people are really genuine and caring to most of those they are familiar with.

If you have a wonderful partner......🤗😘

mrveggieman187 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

People like that are non existent. That's why men take the red pill and become MGTOW.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

They are not non-existent. I was married to one. My problem now is finding another one that's available and wants me. Widowed and two years alone, 18 months on Match, no luck. I may die alone or end up depressed enough to kill myself someday, but I won't take your red pill route. I feel no need to reject women as a whole, even tho the vast majority seem to reject me.

I came across something on a dating site that touched me.

Tinocca comments on Apr 15, 2019:

If only everyone felt like that and acted accordingly. That would be nice.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Tinocca I try it, but it gets me nowhere... I'm getting pretty pessimistic about how many other people out there ever try this. Seems like everybody is very closed, critical, and totally selfish about the online dating process..... Why would most people try this if being the other way, punishing and rejecting, works for them? Out of the kindness of their hearts? I think that is a little naive. It seems like nowadays, if you have the looks, like a 7 or above, you can get what and who you want in the online dating game without being kind, so that's why I get what I get from women. And yes, we all know it goes both ways. I get so fucking sick of having to add that so nobody rides in to be a troll and bash me for saying the rest of it.

I came across something on a dating site that touched me.

Tinocca comments on Apr 15, 2019:

If only everyone felt like that and acted accordingly. That would be nice.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

But very few do. As I said above, most people use learning about your past only to vet you and decide whether to reject you or stay interested in being involved with you. All about self-protection and buying the perfect new shiny toy they are shopping for. Sorry if that sounds cynical, but that's how it seems these days.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Bigger cities help, but not always. The Des Moines metro area is about 650K, but not nearly as progressive and hip as the Twin Cities. There just are not that many non-believer hipster women available my age in my area. I have no doubt if I lived in Minneapolis or Chicago I could find compatible women to date much more easily than where I live, but I'm not moving or dating LD. Guess I'm just doomed to being alone. Don't have the guts to risk the disappointment of trying LD dating and having it fail, also don;t have the energy for it. Can't risk moving because I need my friends too much since my family is no support to me.

Useless Advice on Dating Lately, some have posted about their fatigue and frustrations of being ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Problem is my friends don't have any parties and neither do the groups I attend, so I won't meet anyone compatible that way.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Deiter I'm fully aware of how bleak, but I can't seem to get myself to suspend disbelief.....As my wife was dying and I started to think sometimes about dating again, I never thought it would go this long without actually meeting someone and starting to go out on some real dates instead of just a series of coffee meetings that went really nowhere......It's like two years of job-seeking leading to six interviews and no job, just a couple connections that led to strictly friendzone relationships that lasted for a few months, the equivalent of short-term non-paying internships in the job world.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Good for you. I don't have that luxury offline.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Agree. I've made plenty of friends here and have several offline, but I'd really like to date again and not be sitting on the sidelines almost all the time like I am with Match......

For this is all a dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago... [youtu.be]

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

This has always been my favorite Dead song. The link doesn't work. The video won't play.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Lutherzme Nope, still says video unavailable.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

"Doesn't have the numbers yet", and, at least in my area, I'm afraid it never will......

Daniel Ellsberg On Assange Arrest: The Beginning of the End For Press Freedom

WilliamCharles comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I think too many responding don't get it. It doesn't matter if he's a jerk. It doesn't matter if outing Hillary and the DNC gives you a sad. The help in hacking charges are just that and have yet to be established. It's the government that needs to be transparent. Next you'll be clamoring for a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Some people haven't read 1984 or wouldn't recognize it happening right in front of them.

"It's the same big club they use to beat you over the head all day long when they tell you what to...

mongo1977 comments on Apr 14, 2019:

It's comically embarrassing that liberals believe academics and Hollywood elites really do care about them.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Some do care, some don't. Notable ones who do care include Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon.

According to statistics, the average person over 18 consumes 3 alcoholic drinks a week.

Triphid comments on Apr 14, 2019:

Jeez they mustn't have interviewed me then, I haven't had anything alcoholic for years now.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@EyesThatSmile That stat about 30% of adults being non-drinkers doesn't match at all with my experience with women's profiles on Match, where only about 5% or less list themselves as non-drinkers on their profile checklist of lifestyle traits. That supports my guess that women who are recovering alcoholics do not end up using paid dating sites to find men to date, instead, they meet them thru the AA program and program social events. That makes total sense to me, because all the recovering alcoholics I've known told me they stay out of bars and also try to avoid situations with lots of social drinking, esp. early in their recovery. That's why they prefer to go to AA social events, which are dry, of course. Of course, there's no way to prove this, but it sure would explain it. And I am too honest to start going to AA meetings and faking it, tho there are probably men who do to find women to date.

According to statistics, the average person over 18 consumes 3 alcoholic drinks a week.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 14, 2019:

I haven't drank alcohol since the mid 1990s, and no, it's not because I'm a recovering alcoholic. So my answer would be no. I have found that in online dating my non-drinking is probably one of the biggest dealbreakers I run into with women, on their part, not mine. Almost all the women's profiles ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@A2Jennifer They sure as hell do. I don't believe in lying on my profile, but I may follow suit with you. I just began working with a dating and relationship coach and when we get to revising my dating profile, we may go with that switch, maybe not. In my current profile on Match, not on Agnostic, I mention in my essay that my late wife was a social drinker and we were fine on that issue, even went to wineries together. But that disclaimer either isn't believed by the women who see it or it's irrelevant to them because they want a man who drinks socially so he will fit in with them, their friends, and the woman's family, who all drink at least socially. Like hiring for a job, what they really care about is find a man who is a "fit" for their family and social circle, as well as a man who will drink with them and share the woman's love of wine or alcohol for social drinking. To many women, I think that to them, social drinking is like hiking is for Literate Hiker, they want someone who will join them in what for them is an important part of their social life, same as hiking is for LR's rec life. I think this rigid checklist requirement that the vast majority of women I run across have is sad, but there's nothing I can do but either lie or keep getting rejected on this, if not on something else.

Remember when students put flowers on the end of rifles?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 14, 2019:

Would have but I was just a bit too young then.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@Heidi68 Saw your profile. You still seem like an old hippie at heart, just like my late wife.

I tell people "oh I'm open to the idea of a relationship I'm not closed off or letting my past ...

LadyAlyxandrea comments on Apr 14, 2019:

He's mighty friendly, comes over to my office at least 6 or 7 times through the night and chats. Showed me his pics of his marine uniforms (I believe if men were birds this prominent display of honorable and respected attire is the equivalent of plumege? Surely a sign of at least interest) But ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@LadyAlyxandrea Speaking of tired, if you snooze now and let this rare specimen of a man who is not the typical uncompatible Kansas man slip away, you will be kicking yourself later while fully rested when you are open to a relationship and there appear to be nothing left but Trump supporters and Bible thumpers....

I tell people "oh I'm open to the idea of a relationship I'm not closed off or letting my past ...

LadyAlyxandrea comments on Apr 14, 2019:

He's mighty friendly, comes over to my office at least 6 or 7 times through the night and chats. Showed me his pics of his marine uniforms (I believe if men were birds this prominent display of honorable and respected attire is the equivalent of plumege? Surely a sign of at least interest) But ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

Then why aren't you making the jump? Only you know the answer to that ?

Hi all.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

My reasons for opposing the death penalty are not related to rehabilitation at all, altho I do think it is admirable when a murderer does change, turn their life around, and devote themselves to helping others in prison as a way of making up for what they did. But my reasons, if it's not off-topic, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@Amisja Thank you, I get lucky once in a while. I stole part of my argument from the lyrics of Elvis Costello's song Let Him Dangle, a song against the death penalty.

I am so emotionally raw.

SKH78 comments on Apr 13, 2019:

It takes a lot of time to find someone. It is the pits, but that is life. Good friends and good intimate partners are difficult to find. Keep on trying and eventually you will find someone who is compatible with you.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

No offense, but nowadays those just seem like nice words, " Keep on trying and.." I don't have any hope.

But Magic is no instrument.

aahouck49 comments on Apr 13, 2019:

Deiter add to that: if I have to hear what is your "bucket list"one more time I may go medieval on somebody! Yes my family had to same thing happen, and my niece and nephew are on their parents side of worshiping money and I just tell them please do not do that but they are not listening to auntie ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

My family has always valued money and appearances over heart and relationships, so that is why I have no contact with my siblings and little with my parents until they got old and sick, then they began to be more respectful and accepting of me, because with their changes in age and health they then needed me more. I then became more involved with them and the relationships improved, because the balance of power and need, so to speak, had shifted. But my siblings have not changed, so we remain estranged. That is why my friends have replaced my siblings and been my real family and support for my whole adult life.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

dare2dream comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can relate! I too am a democratic socialist, secular humanist, futurist, and an idealist. I was widowed at 65 and thrown out into the obscure wilderness of the dating world without a playbook or compass and not knowing in which direction to go. I agree with your thoughts on politics and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@dare2dream For me, the in person kind of meeting women is probably not going to work. I don't have the confidence or skills anymore to approach women in person. Don't have any friends that could help me as matchmaker, except one friend who won't do it. And all of the interest groups that I already attend do not have any compatible women for me as far as age, being single, and any cultural things in common (being non-religious, liberal, disliking country music, not being very family-oriented, etc.). I need a big dating pool to have any chance of meeting the small number of women in my area that are my age and fellow hipsters and non-conformists.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

dare2dream comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can relate! I too am a democratic socialist, secular humanist, futurist, and an idealist. I was widowed at 65 and thrown out into the obscure wilderness of the dating world without a playbook or compass and not knowing in which direction to go. I agree with your thoughts on politics and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@dare2dream I have joined a local Meetup group and am going to hear a band tonite with some members of it and maybe dance. Hopefully I can enjoy some support and encouragement from the group's meetings and informal social events like tonite. Maybe also make a friend or two that I can share phone support with and meet some for coffee or a meal between group meetings. The group is for singles of all types, tho it's called Dating After Divorce, and is open to widowed like me. The vast majority of them are divorced, female, and way younger than me. Also almost all of them are Christian too. So, never going to find anyone to date there out of the 40-50 people that regularly show up at the group. The group is run and founded by a dating and relationship coach. I am going to work with her as a client for a month or two and see if she can help me some. My friends are all married and they either don't get it as far as the dating struggles and/or don't want to hear about it very much. So I need the support of this group. As far as widows, I must disagree somewhat with you. My experience on Match with widows is not that they are unkind or as closed or defensive as many divorced women. My experience with the widowed women is that they do usually wait quite a while after the death to start dating again and they get pretty comfortable with being on their own. So they seem more ambivalent about dating than the divorced women. I have chatted with several of them thru Match and then they decide to not meet with me or drop off the dating site, saying that after chatting with me and other men they don't think they are ready to date yet. Maybe those women do remain married to their dead spouse, Go figure... I may try Our Time after my Match membership runs out, because even tho Match has a deeper pool than Our Time, I am starting to see that as I get older Match is beginning to run short of women who are old enough for me and can't come up with enough new matches for me that are my age.

The face that deserves a boot will be putting his in yours.

brentan comments on Apr 13, 2019:

How do we deal with the accusation that he put many lives at risk by his disclosures? Can it be ignored? I think people view what he did as a 'mixed bag' and conclude that he did more good than harm. We could trust these details to be untangled in court if we could trust the courts to do it outside ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@WilliamCharles It will now be " How many fingers, Julian..".

The face that deserves a boot will be putting his in yours.

brentan comments on Apr 13, 2019:

How do we deal with the accusation that he put many lives at risk by his disclosures? Can it be ignored? I think people view what he did as a 'mixed bag' and conclude that he did more good than harm. We could trust these details to be untangled in court if we could trust the courts to do it outside ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@WilliamCharles Damn right. I know he won't get a fair trial and I doubt it will even be a public trial. Also, like with Bradley Manning, the corporate media will probably ignore it unless it can be used to make him look bad. If the trial is public and his defense is allowed to present evidence about what he exposed, you can bet the media will avoid mentioning any of that in coverage. I doubt the court will allow any evidence about what Assange uncovered.

Hello! Welcome to spinter - spring/winter - or winring?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I know this is off-topic, but it's too bad we have only handful of members in this group that still actually live in Iowa. It would be nice to have a meetup sometime in Des Moines, but I'm not holding my breath....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@Donna_I Don't know right now. Feel free to message me about this instead.

Hello! Welcome to spinter - spring/winter - or winring?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I know this is off-topic, but it's too bad we have only handful of members in this group that still actually live in Iowa. It would be nice to have a meetup sometime in Des Moines, but I'm not holding my breath....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@Donna_I Everybody eats. Why not get together for a lunch some weekend at a modest to medium-priced restaurant?

Religious People On Dating Websites Are All Like...

KKGator comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I had to Google Joyce Meyer. I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing who she is, and I would have been completely content in my ignorance of her existence.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@Paul4747 Always loved that the Church Lady on SNL was played by a gay man, how ironic...

Having a sad today.

CarolinaGirl60 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I tried talking to a few yesterday who are celebrating the signing of a bill in NC to ‘ban post birth abortion’. Of course there’s no such thing. I tried advocating Hospice care for fetus/infant that has no chance of survival, even if showing signs of life after induced ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@CarolinaGirl60 I used to work in hospice too and my wife was in hospice for her final few months. I hear you. Quality, not quantity. There are worse things than death and I've seen them.

Having a sad today.

CarolinaGirl60 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I tried talking to a few yesterday who are celebrating the signing of a bill in NC to ‘ban post birth abortion’. Of course there’s no such thing. I tried advocating Hospice care for fetus/infant that has no chance of survival, even if showing signs of life after induced ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

Confuse not the minds of the ignorant (or in this case, the deluded), they will only hate you for it.

How (and Why) Americans Were Taught to Hate Atheists

gearl comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I'm somebody that's old enough to vaguely remember Eisenhower. I can even remember the "I Like Ike" buttons that the kids in fourth grade were wearing in school. I tend to be an optimist and I really believe that maybe the tide will change. We have a gay man running for president and early polling ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

I hope you're right, but for the present we are in about the same place as queer people were in 1980 as far as America.

How (and Why) Americans Were Taught to Hate Atheists

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I would be interested in polling data that said what % of Americans identified themselves as non-believers, Atheist or Agnostic. I'm guessing the total would still be about 5% or less. I know that in my area most people would still be distrustful or at least uncomfortable with you after finding out ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@SeaGreenEyez You and I both live in the US, I think. I figured all the hoopla over the increase in nons and their overall size in the population was all hype. Thanks for the confirmation. My intuition and personal experience had already make me suspect that.

I am deeply troubled by the virulent efforts of the anti abortionist movement to criminalise women ...

Triphid comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Draconian laws in an equally Draconian Religiously indoctrinated State and Country in my opinion. A woman has the ONLY right to decide what happens within and to her body, it IS her body, her property, it belongs to her and to NO-ONE else.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I have read The Handmaid's Tale and also seen the movie. When it comes to restricting abortion, men should have no say whatsoever in it. They are not the ones who have to experience pregnancy, birth, or live with the raising of the child should the father choose to walk away, tho the man would still be financially responsible, which only provides more incentive for men to support abortion rights or stay out of the debate.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@TCameron Of course it goes both ways T. I like to think most of us here on Agnostic that participate on the boards understand this, but some don't and I get tired of always having to add that into any statement I make about my experience with women in online dating or make some qualifying statement about how my dating experience is only with women, etc. It should be obvious and as controversial as it is with some of the women on these threads. But I guess it always will be contentious because, as Gwendolyn once told me, some women just can't stand hearing the same comments about women from a man that they would otherwise agree with and accept hearing from a woman. When I run into that, it is not my problem that they have resentments and issues with men that color how they read and hear things. It says more about them than me. And I am also aware and honest enough to say that THAT also goes both ways on these boards. Some men can't handle critical comments about men in general or their behavior. I am secure enough in myself and self aware enough to not take those comments personally, but some other men aren't. I have no need or reason to defend men in general. It would be nice if more women on here were the same way, but I'm not holding my breath on the ones that I have already blocked or have blocked me.

Alright, I have to earn a place in the queue.

Patrick comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Not a fair question I guess, but it got me up and running on this site. I still suspect that some of you also wonder in your darkest mind and heart. I just hope I don't. Thanks for all the replies.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

Check out Unitarian Universalism. Many of them, the ones who do believe in some kind of afterlife, believe there is no hell and that everyone gets into heaven. That is a doctrine that came from the Universalists, who merged their denomination with the Unitarians in 1961.

Alright, I have to earn a place in the queue.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Salvation won't be on my mind, hoping I'm not in pain, suffering, or alone probably will be.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Patrick Not the first time I've been called hard core, but it's usually been about another subject or other times being called hard-headed.

Which is as it should be

Dew25 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I'm a bit surprised at how many seem to disagree with this. Without nitpicking words, to me there is a clear idea here. I believe the best and enduring relationships are equal partnerships. In my experience and observation, problems and dissatisfaction, eventually always arise when one partner is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Dew25 It is always available, esp. if both people are able-bodied, maybe even if they aren't, functioning, employable and equally-willing mature adults. Like John and Yoko said about ending war, it can be "If you want it". Sorry you got exploited during your marriages. My wife got sick of carrying most of the load with her previous hubby, the addict. He was a college professor who thought all he should contribute to the home and marriage was bring in the big bucks in his job. My wife got tired of being the homemaker and faculty wife, so she went back to college, started working, got her two degrees, bought a house without his help, and kicked his ass to the curb. She had really grown as a woman by the time I met her and she was not going to settle for less than an equal partner. She was a hell of a woman......

Which is as it should be

Dew25 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I'm a bit surprised at how many seem to disagree with this. Without nitpicking words, to me there is a clear idea here. I believe the best and enduring relationships are equal partnerships. In my experience and observation, problems and dissatisfaction, eventually always arise when one partner is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

You are ok with me, Dew. My marriage worked because we were an equal partnership and both wanted it that way. It was my first and only marriage and I was very pro-feminist and pro-equality already. My wife was divorced twice and was done with being the caretaker and being responsible for doing most of the work in the home or being the only responsible one in the relationship like she was with her alcoholic, drug addicted, cheating previous hubby. We split all the bills and expenses down the middle, she paid the bills, but we each saw everything about the finances and also shopped together for the groceries. I did all the outside stuff and some of the cleaning in the house. She cooked some and cleaned some in the house. I would not want or recommend any other arrangement that was much different than this. We both really wanted this to work and feel fair to both people and that was the key. Her two previous hubbies didn't and she also was, back then, not yet strong and independent enough to demand different or better as she was raised to be a traditional wife.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@TCameron I think you've nailed it T. What I see on the paid dating sites is many women who seem to have decided after their divorce that they want the perfect man this time around who will accept and tolerate them with no compromise on their part so that it will all be magic and roses. Of course, these women also show no signs of having gotten any therapy since their divorce, much less taken a look at themselves and decided to make any changes in themselves.

As you grow older you realize there is a role for everyone you meet in life.

LenHazell53 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Sweet dreams are made of this Who am I to disagree? I travel the world And the seven seas, Everybody's looking for something. Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be abused. Annie Lennox

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I like Annie's better...

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@TCameron No problem, T, I did not take it that you were suggesting that to me at all.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

linxminx comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I stopped trying to date a couple years ago, but before that, also tried the online dating websites. Based on your comments on women's profiles, they sound amazingly similar to men's profiles, with one exception. Male profiles also had a "resume-like" quality to them: Financially independent - ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I agree with you too, linxminx, it goes both ways and our culture is very toxic. I don't fall into it, but many people do on the dating sites and it does become a game for them of draw in, devalue, discard. Also our society has totally become disposable about relationships and people in general.

People who have been single too long are.....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 11, 2019:

I am very open, interested in and ready to date someone if the right woman/women would give me a chance. But it's a two player game and I just don't seem to be able to compete with other men on Batch for the almost all the women I keep messaging and getting ignored or rejected by. And it's not ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Nukdookum I think Cast1es was trying to bait and bully me into trying to defend myself or prove my worth as a partner to my late wife, as you are also trying to do here. I don't need to prove or justify anything about myself to you either, so nice try. Enjoy your block too.

People who have been single too long are.....

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can really agree with this. Having a man in your life might as be like having a 6 foot toddler. Piss on the toilet seat. Dropped laundry everywhere. I want this?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

Tooreen's right. That's not a man, that's an overgrown brat.

People who have been single too long are.....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 11, 2019:

I am very open, interested in and ready to date someone if the right woman/women would give me a chance. But it's a two player game and I just don't seem to be able to compete with other men on Batch for the almost all the women I keep messaging and getting ignored or rejected by. And it's not ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Cast1es You are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said that I am what every woman needs or wants. Nobody is. Nobody is compatible with everyone. I do know from my one LTR of 22 years that I do have a lot of positive things to offer someone who is compatible with me that IS seeking a partner or someone to spend time with or share their life with. Presumably, Cast1es, that is part of or most of why women are on paid dating sites, wouldn't you agree? I had a good, happy marriage and I have no need to prove or explain anything about that or myself to you. Some women grow to be cynical about all men and believe nothing is good or honest about them. Those women should probably stay alone and not try to date, like the ones in that singles group I mentioned. I can see you are trying to bait me and push me into a fight so you can play the victim and get me punished. Nice try, you're blocked instead. I won't fall for it like I did with demifeministgal.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

dare2dream comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can relate! I too am a democratic socialist, secular humanist, futurist, and an idealist. I was widowed at 65 and thrown out into the obscure wilderness of the dating world without a playbook or compass and not knowing in which direction to go. I agree with your thoughts on politics and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I agree with very much of what you've said and I also share your experience, widowed two years ago after a 22 year relationship, 19 year marriage. I feel so alien here in central Iowa where the vast majority of women on Batch seem like they are from a different culture, few of the divorced ones open to dating someone widowed (for whatever reasons), vast majority of them religious and not open to dating someone Agnostic, vast majority of them very family-oriented and only interested in dating a man who has kids, even with his and her kids are all grown adults, because they seem to want the man more as an escort to visit their adult kids and grandkids with than as a partner to do couple stuff with away from family. On top of that add that I am a non-drinker who is very tolerant and accepting of moderate and social drinkers after being happily married to one, but almost no women on Batch my age will accept a man who is not at least a social drinker, no matter what I tell them about my late wife's social drinking. It seems they just have to have someone who shares that lifestyle trait with them, and probably also their friends and family as well. My guess is that all the women my age in Iowa who want a non-drinking partner are all in AA and find their men to date in the program rather than on a dating site. I would add one caveat to what you said, and that is that the women my age who are widowed are way less bitter, sour, or jaded than the ones who are divorced. I think a lot of that is their armor they carry to protect themselves from being hurt again and few of them have gotten the therapy they should have sought to deal with it. But right now I'm at an age where there aren't that many widowed women to choose from in my age group. Plus, the widowed women tend to be picky also because most of them seem to wait quite a while after being widowed before they try to date. So even tho they are kinder to men, they are usually very settled into being on their own and will be very deliberate and selective about who they will date and how they proceed. Which is understandable and fine by me, I just wish there were more of them in comparison to the divorced women on Batch. I am indeed a stranger in a strange land......But I've lived in Iowa my whole life and always been an alienated person from the mainstream culture and lifestyle too, for the most part. The thing is, once I met my late wife, it didn't matter anymore at all, until I lost her. The continued support of my several friends help some with that, but it's not the same as having a partner, not by a long shot....

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

Reignmond comments on Apr 11, 2019:

I can appreciate your feeling on dating. Between Christians, gay women, transexuals, women who lie about not being married, personality issues, women who might think it is harrassment if you say "Hi"...I just am not even motivated to try to date. The few good women I know were taken a long time ago ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

Sadly, you are right about a lot of the women on paid dating sites, as well as the same for men. It goes both ways. As Literate Hiker said not that long ago, when you get to dating after age 40 or when the prospects are mostly divorced, you are dealing mostly with leftovers who are divorced or never married for good reasons relating to their faults. The better prospects tend to be there when we are very young or at the age where most of the singles are widowed as far as being good quality partners.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 11, 2019:

I have no interest in hookups or ever trying a hookup site, but with paid dating sites I have experienced much of the same shit as you, probably because we are both in the same level of looks, no offense meant to you, but that is how most women play the game on the paid sites. The average-looking or above women almost all ignore us and go after the guys who are at least 7s or 8s. Like you, I am also honest to a fault and say so in my profile, but it gets me nowhere. Unlike you tho, I try and usually succeed in holding myself back from saying things in messages to women on paid sites that I think might offend them, while at the same time I am always honest about telling them what my values are, that I am not religious, my political category, my taste in music, my not being very family-oriented, my non-drinking, and my lack of being that interested in college sports, like most women I run across on paid sites. That results in a lot of dealbreakers when I get to the point of trading messages with women who do actually reply to me. Almost never end up meeting in person. 6 women in 18 months. I'm with you T, I'm baffled at what they really want and are seeking in men. I know that another strike against me is that almost all of the women with kids, even adult kids who are gone, don't seem to want a man who doesn't have kids. And 75% of the women I see on paid sites my age have kids. So at least you have that going for you, unlike me.