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From your personal experience, are some people simply not wired (say, neurologically or ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
I don’t think belief or disbelief are very important, and those words are not a good way to describe a person.
There are many ideas and concepts that we think about and discuss, ideas very worthy but probably not provable. We might lean toward belief or disbelief without knowing for sure.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 23, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Yes, I have.
Good point. I can’t say if it’s genetic or something else. I’m thinking.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 23, 2019:
I don’t think belief or disbelief are very important, and those words are not a good way to describe a person.
There are many ideas and concepts that we think about and discuss, ideas very worthy but probably not provable. We might lean toward belief or disbelief without knowing for sure.
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 23, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Yes, I have.
Good point. I can’t say if it’s genetic or something else. I’m thinking.
Alabama governor signs law allowing church to have its own police force
Dougl35534 comments on Jun 21, 2019:
First you had Amish mafia, now it's pentecostal police. Hopes and prayers were not enough to protect everyone? Go figure.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2019:
It’s not Pentecostal, it’s Presbyterian.
Them Presbyterians are a vicious lot, known for their goal to establish a worldwide theocracy. The first step will be to shoot all the Baptists and Methodists once they get their police force.
Dougl35534 comments on Jun 21, 2019:
First you had Amish mafia, now it's pentecostal police. Hopes and prayers were not enough to protect everyone? Go figure.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2019:
It’s not Pentecostal, it’s Presbyterian.
Them Presbyterians are a vicious lot, known for their goal to establish a worldwide theocracy. The first step will be to shoot all the Baptists and Methodists once they get their police force.
Have you ever had anything that could be termed miraculous happen to you?
JimG comments on Jun 22, 2019:
Your view basically boils down to the argument of incredulity, a logical fallacy. In summary it's I don't understand how something could happen by normal means; so....**MAGIC**
A miracle is a supernatural occurrence that defies the laws of physics and an impossibility. Anything that can happen ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2019:
It need not be considered magic or supernatural. There are miraculous events happening all the time. They are events that we can not understand, and they trigger a sense of awe and wonder, but if we had more awareness and insight those things might be understandable.
JimG comments on Jun 22, 2019:
Your view basically boils down to the argument of incredulity, a logical fallacy. In summary it's I don't understand how something could happen by normal means; so....**MAGIC**
A miracle is a supernatural occurrence that defies the laws of physics and an impossibility. Anything that can happen ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2019:
It need not be considered magic or supernatural. There are miraculous events happening all the time. They are events that we can not understand, and they trigger a sense of awe and wonder, but if we had more awareness and insight those things might be understandable.
[youtu.be]
This is an intetesting take on religion.
Matias comments on Jun 22, 2019:
Many atheists like to point out that there is a clear correlation between poverty on the one side and religion on the other side: the more religious a society is, the poorer it tends to be on average.
Now the common interpretation of this fact is: religion is the cause of that poverty because it...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2019:
@Allamanda Who are the “we” who are going to let or not let them get on with it?
In the US anyway a great majority are religious. It would be the tail wagging the dog.
Matias comments on Jun 22, 2019:
Many atheists like to point out that there is a clear correlation between poverty on the one side and religion on the other side: the more religious a society is, the poorer it tends to be on average.
Now the common interpretation of this fact is: religion is the cause of that poverty because it...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2019:
@Allamanda Who are the “we” who are going to let or not let them get on with it?
In the US anyway a great majority are religious. It would be the tail wagging the dog.
Alabama governor signs law allowing church to have its own police force
Bigwavedave comments on Jun 21, 2019:
This is so bad its funny. I mean scary funny. You know those Alabamans , they got their hate down. Blacks, Jews, Catholics, Immigrants, Gays. SECULAR HUMANIST OH MY. The christian PO PO gonna get you. Avoid Alabama at all costs. Mississippi too.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
It’s hard to avoid since I was born here.
Are you absolutely sure that North Carolina is any better?
Bigwavedave comments on Jun 21, 2019:
This is so bad its funny. I mean scary funny. You know those Alabamans , they got their hate down. Blacks, Jews, Catholics, Immigrants, Gays. SECULAR HUMANIST OH MY. The christian PO PO gonna get you. Avoid Alabama at all costs. Mississippi too.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
It’s hard to avoid since I was born here.
Are you absolutely sure that North Carolina is any better?
Alabama governor signs law allowing church to have its own police force
Kc2222 comments on Jun 21, 2019:
This comes from a state where 67% of the population is white, yet 54% of those incarcerated are african american. I think its been clear for awhile now that its an injust system thats only getting worse.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas and Hawaii have the lowest Black/White incarceration ratios in the nation, around 3.5/1, still too high. The really high ones are in the Northeast and Midwest at over 12/1 in some states. Your own state of Florida is no shining example either.
What the hell does that have to do with a church having it’s own police?
Kc2222 comments on Jun 21, 2019:
This comes from a state where 67% of the population is white, yet 54% of those incarcerated are african american. I think its been clear for awhile now that its an injust system thats only getting worse.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas and Hawaii have the lowest Black/White incarceration ratios in the nation, around 3.5/1, still too high. The really high ones are in the Northeast and Midwest at over 12/1 in some states. Your own state of Florida is no shining example either.
What the hell does that have to do with a church having it’s own police?
Supreme Court Cross Case: Memorial Can Stand On Public Land : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
IMO it was a reasonable decision. There are no limits to where this might have gone if the cross had been ordered down.
Consider public libraries. Within those libraries are books of art that show churches with crosses. Would you order that those books be destroyed? Also there are many religious...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
@jerry99 Yes. I’ve noticed that small-town libraries tend to be well stocked with Christian books, and only a few books about other religions. Maybe it’s based on demand. I’ve never asked, but maybe they’d send out for books on other religions, or for those critical analyses.
What if a city acquired an old church building and turned it into a museum? Should that be legal? Presumably there would be religious icons in the building, maybe a cross on top.
Some of those old churches are very beautiful but are falling into disuse. They would be a great addition to a historical district. That would be better than have them deteriorate IMO. Remember, the purpose would not be to establish a religion or favor a particular religion—just to keep the city looking nice.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
IMO it was a reasonable decision. There are no limits to where this might have gone if the cross had been ordered down.
Consider public libraries. Within those libraries are books of art that show churches with crosses. Would you order that those books be destroyed? Also there are many religious...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
@jerry99 Yes. I’ve noticed that small-town libraries tend to be well stocked with Christian books, and only a few books about other religions. Maybe it’s based on demand. I’ve never asked, but maybe they’d send out for books on other religions, or for those critical analyses.
What if a city acquired an old church building and turned it into a museum? Should that be legal? Presumably there would be religious icons in the building, maybe a cross on top.
Some of those old churches are very beautiful but are falling into disuse. They would be a great addition to a historical district. That would be better than have them deteriorate IMO. Remember, the purpose would not be to establish a religion or favor a particular religion—just to keep the city looking nice.
Supreme Court Cross Case: Memorial Can Stand On Public Land : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
IMO it was a reasonable decision. There are no limits to where this might have gone if the cross had been ordered down.
Consider public libraries. Within those libraries are books of art that show churches with crosses. Would you order that those books be destroyed? Also there are many religious...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
@jerry99 Does that include religious books in publicly funded libraries?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
IMO it was a reasonable decision. There are no limits to where this might have gone if the cross had been ordered down.
Consider public libraries. Within those libraries are books of art that show churches with crosses. Would you order that those books be destroyed? Also there are many religious...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
@jerry99 Does that include religious books in publicly funded libraries?
Atheism in America: misunderstandings, explained - Vox
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
@jlynn37 I agree 100%.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2019:
@jlynn37 I agree 100%.
Atheism in America: misunderstandings, explained - Vox
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@jlynn37 What is as it should be and must be?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@jlynn37 What is as it should be and must be?
Young people develop bone spurs at base of skull from looking down at smartphones
WalterWhite comments on Jun 20, 2019:
Well, if teens find out they can grow horns by talking on their phones that will just encourage them to do more of it. lol :)
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
Teens are horny enough already.
WalterWhite comments on Jun 20, 2019:
Well, if teens find out they can grow horns by talking on their phones that will just encourage them to do more of it. lol :)
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
Teens are horny enough already.
Supreme Court Cross Case: Memorial Can Stand On Public Land : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@SeaGreenEyez If the Maryland legislature votes to take it down, then there is no precedent one way or another.
See my post above about libraries.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@SeaGreenEyez If the Maryland legislature votes to take it down, then there is no precedent one way or another.
See my post above about libraries.
Supreme Court Cross Case: Memorial Can Stand On Public Land : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@SeaGreenEyez According to NPR:
“The decision could have sweeping implications in terms of symbols, like crosses and the Ten Commandments that are already constructed. Those that are already there are unlikely to be removed, but putting up new crosses or other religious symbols on public property very likely would not stand under Thursday's ruling.”
In other words, no precedents are being set.
Anyway, the place to argue about such things is in the legislative branch. If you don’t want the thing there you should take it up with the Maryland legislature. I don’t like these end runs through the courts to address everyone’s grievances.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@SeaGreenEyez According to NPR:
“The decision could have sweeping implications in terms of symbols, like crosses and the Ten Commandments that are already constructed. Those that are already there are unlikely to be removed, but putting up new crosses or other religious symbols on public property very likely would not stand under Thursday's ruling.”
In other words, no precedents are being set.
Anyway, the place to argue about such things is in the legislative branch. If you don’t want the thing there you should take it up with the Maryland legislature. I don’t like these end runs through the courts to address everyone’s grievances.
Atheism in America: misunderstandings, explained - Vox
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Consider moving to Alabama.
:-)
Oh wait—We have Roy Moore.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Consider moving to Alabama.
:-)
Oh wait—We have Roy Moore.
Supreme Court Cross Case: Memorial Can Stand On Public Land : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@dare2dream, @bingst People were not concerned for a hundred years. They were secure in their religious opinions and beliefs and did not feel threatened by a the presence of a mere symbol.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@dare2dream, @bingst People were not concerned for a hundred years. They were secure in their religious opinions and beliefs and did not feel threatened by a the presence of a mere symbol.
Supreme Court Cross Case: Memorial Can Stand On Public Land : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@dare2dream It’s not happening. I pay no taxes to Maryland, but if I did I wouldn’t be bothered.
I am secure enough in my religious orientation not to feel threatened by mere symbols.
The prospect of Roy Moore as a senator—now THAT is something to be concerned about.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@dare2dream It’s not happening. I pay no taxes to Maryland, but if I did I wouldn’t be bothered.
I am secure enough in my religious orientation not to feel threatened by mere symbols.
The prospect of Roy Moore as a senator—now THAT is something to be concerned about.
Atheism in America: misunderstandings, explained - Vox
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Maybe it’s different in different places. We did have a morning prayer, said over the intercom, but the instruction was purely secular.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
“The government cannot promote atheism over religion, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean the government cannot do things in public schools and elsewhere that happen to be inconsistent with what some religious people believe.” (quote from article)
In all my school years in Alabama not once...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Maybe it’s different in different places. We did have a morning prayer, said over the intercom, but the instruction was purely secular.
Supreme Court Cross Case: Memorial Can Stand On Public Land : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@bingst I didn’t miss that it was a Supreme Court ruling, but I doubt it sets much of a precedent. The thing stood there for a hundred years without challenge—that is the precedent. 7-2 makes it pretty definite.
Try putting up a new cross on public land and I doubt you’d get very far.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 20, 2019:
It’s a small matter, not worth a lot of emotional energy.
If someone wants to put up some symbol I don’t care as long as they don’t try to make me kneel and vow allegiance or coerce me into belief.
The crucifixion and resurrection, even if they happened as claimed, are totally meaningless ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 20, 2019:
@bingst I didn’t miss that it was a Supreme Court ruling, but I doubt it sets much of a precedent. The thing stood there for a hundred years without challenge—that is the precedent. 7-2 makes it pretty definite.
Try putting up a new cross on public land and I doubt you’d get very far.
Have you ever heard about the lynching of a woman in Kabul, Afghanistan which took place in 2015?
St-Sinner comments on Jun 18, 2019:
Same things are being done in India by Hindu fanatics.
It is true that cruelty and atrocities stem from fanaticism which is an off-shoot of conservatism.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 19, 2019:
@St-Sinner You are talking all around the issue. You made the bald faced statement above that fanaticism is an offshoot of conservatism. What in hell are you talking about? It is a blatantly untrue statement.
You seem to be interchanging the words “religion” and “conservatism” as though they were the same thing. They aren’t.
St-Sinner comments on Jun 18, 2019:
Same things are being done in India by Hindu fanatics.
It is true that cruelty and atrocities stem from fanaticism which is an off-shoot of conservatism.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 19, 2019:
@St-Sinner You are talking all around the issue. You made the bald faced statement above that fanaticism is an offshoot of conservatism. What in hell are you talking about? It is a blatantly untrue statement.
You seem to be interchanging the words “religion” and “conservatism” as though they were the same thing. They aren’t.
The "God" Part of the Brain: A Scientific Interpretation of Human Spirituality and God is a very ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 19, 2019:
@Grecio For me spirituality begins with awareness that the world as we perceive it is illusory—awareness that there is an ultimate reality beyond the senses. Some people think of the spiritual realm as something ethereal and supernatural but actually ultimate reality is basic, primary, and substantial. One comes to realize that the very concept of existence is an abject mystery and that we do not know what we ourselves are. We seem to have conscious awareness, but what that is and how it arises is not understood.
Following that awareness there arises a sense of deep awe and reverence. Those are just emotional, bodily reactions to our conscious awareness. I guess I would say that awe and reverence are spiritual experiences. Others might use different words.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 19, 2019:
@Grecio For me spirituality begins with awareness that the world as we perceive it is illusory—awareness that there is an ultimate reality beyond the senses. Some people think of the spiritual realm as something ethereal and supernatural but actually ultimate reality is basic, primary, and substantial. One comes to realize that the very concept of existence is an abject mystery and that we do not know what we ourselves are. We seem to have conscious awareness, but what that is and how it arises is not understood.
Following that awareness there arises a sense of deep awe and reverence. Those are just emotional, bodily reactions to our conscious awareness. I guess I would say that awe and reverence are spiritual experiences. Others might use different words.
Should we all become teetotalers because there are alcoholics?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT Sorry ma’am.
It’s in our blood to do good. That has no direct relation to the religious impulse of mankind, which is founded on deep awareness, awe and reverence for the overwhelming and profound mystery of our existence as conscious beings.
Please don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT Sorry ma’am.
It’s in our blood to do good. That has no direct relation to the religious impulse of mankind, which is founded on deep awareness, awe and reverence for the overwhelming and profound mystery of our existence as conscious beings.
Please don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
Do you suspect there is an evangelical arm of atheism that wants to convert religious practitioners ...
JackBord comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I would like to help believers to see the light of reality. I would not do it in such a way as to threaten them with some sort of damnation as they threaten us with.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
If you can see the light of reality you are way ahead of me. All I can see is utter mystery and bewilderment. What is this light of which you speak?
JackBord comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I would like to help believers to see the light of reality. I would not do it in such a way as to threaten them with some sort of damnation as they threaten us with.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
If you can see the light of reality you are way ahead of me. All I can see is utter mystery and bewilderment. What is this light of which you speak?
Should we all become teetotalers because there are alcoholics?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT There’s more to religion sir than just adults believing in make-believe. I agree that traditional Christianity promotes belief in some things that are not believable, but there are many religions that require no belief at all. There’s the UU for example. The Friends require no belief. New Thought Churches are not about belief. Besides that there is Buddhism which has no God concept.
Most of those do speak of God—they have a sophisticated God concept that bears no relation to your “Sky-Daddy” quip. Your use of that label shows that you yourself are not dealing with reality. When it comes to talk of God, none of us know what we are talking about. The word is a symbol for a great unknown—for ultimate reality beyond the senses.
We are free to think whatever we want about ultimate reality. Why do you insist that you hold the only correct opinion?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT There’s more to religion sir than just adults believing in make-believe. I agree that traditional Christianity promotes belief in some things that are not believable, but there are many religions that require no belief at all. There’s the UU for example. The Friends require no belief. New Thought Churches are not about belief. Besides that there is Buddhism which has no God concept.
Most of those do speak of God—they have a sophisticated God concept that bears no relation to your “Sky-Daddy” quip. Your use of that label shows that you yourself are not dealing with reality. When it comes to talk of God, none of us know what we are talking about. The word is a symbol for a great unknown—for ultimate reality beyond the senses.
We are free to think whatever we want about ultimate reality. Why do you insist that you hold the only correct opinion?
Have you ever heard about the lynching of a woman in Kabul, Afghanistan which took place in 2015?
St-Sinner comments on Jun 18, 2019:
Same things are being done in India by Hindu fanatics.
It is true that cruelty and atrocities stem from fanaticism which is an off-shoot of conservatism.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@St-Sinner It seems to me that fanatics have been driven by a variety of causes, mostly political and economic, but only occasionally by religious fanaticism and its partner, fanatical atheism.
Fanaticism is nothing but a blatant expression of ego. The causes taken up by fanatics are of no significance—they are all false. Trying to associate conservatism with various atrocities amounts to stereotyping in my opinion.
St-Sinner comments on Jun 18, 2019:
Same things are being done in India by Hindu fanatics.
It is true that cruelty and atrocities stem from fanaticism which is an off-shoot of conservatism.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@St-Sinner It seems to me that fanatics have been driven by a variety of causes, mostly political and economic, but only occasionally by religious fanaticism and its partner, fanatical atheism.
Fanaticism is nothing but a blatant expression of ego. The causes taken up by fanatics are of no significance—they are all false. Trying to associate conservatism with various atrocities amounts to stereotyping in my opinion.
Should we all become teetotalers because there are alcoholics?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT “As for convincing the masses there is no Sky-Daddy? We'll get there - eventually. I don't see a mass-de conversion in anyone's future.”
If I thought that was all there was to religion I would probably agree. You have a skewed perception IMO.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT “As for convincing the masses there is no Sky-Daddy? We'll get there - eventually. I don't see a mass-de conversion in anyone's future.”
If I thought that was all there was to religion I would probably agree. You have a skewed perception IMO.
Should we all become teetotalers because there are alcoholics?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT People will be people. Only through brutal, violent tyranny has religion been eliminated in the past, and it always comes back.
Who are the “we” that are going to enforce your edicts? Certainly not a majority.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 18, 2019:
I agree.
Religion must serve some purpose to humanity or it wouldn’t exist. Religion seems to keep some people from leading trashy lifestyles, and that alone justifies its existence, even fundamentalism.
It seems more rational to me to observe the world without judgment and try to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
@RavenCT People will be people. Only through brutal, violent tyranny has religion been eliminated in the past, and it always comes back.
Who are the “we” that are going to enforce your edicts? Certainly not a majority.
Have you ever heard about the lynching of a woman in Kabul, Afghanistan which took place in 2015?
St-Sinner comments on Jun 18, 2019:
Same things are being done in India by Hindu fanatics.
It is true that cruelty and atrocities stem from fanaticism which is an off-shoot of conservatism.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
Pol Pot was not a conservative. He was a leftist fanatic. Maybe fanaticism is an offshoot of liberalism.
St-Sinner comments on Jun 18, 2019:
Same things are being done in India by Hindu fanatics.
It is true that cruelty and atrocities stem from fanaticism which is an off-shoot of conservatism.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 18, 2019:
Pol Pot was not a conservative. He was a leftist fanatic. Maybe fanaticism is an offshoot of liberalism.
God and I reached an understanding.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
I provided no religious training to my children other than my persistent philosophical rumblings, but now I’m trying to atone for my earlier neglect.
Here’s a great religious song that skado recently posted, and I have forwarded it to my adult children for their edification:
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 17, 2019:
@Bigwavedave Thanks are due to skado. Problem with the song is that I keep laughing whenever I think about it. Is that healthy?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 17, 2019:
I provided no religious training to my children other than my persistent philosophical rumblings, but now I’m trying to atone for my earlier neglect.
Here’s a great religious song that skado recently posted, and I have forwarded it to my adult children for their edification:
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 17, 2019:
@Bigwavedave Thanks are due to skado. Problem with the song is that I keep laughing whenever I think about it. Is that healthy?
Are positive illusions a necessary condition for being happy?
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 24, 2019:
Our reality is one big illusion IMO. Whether or not it is a happy illusion depends entirely on your habits of thought. A person can choose happiness as easily as flipping a switch. Life is inherently joyful, but by constantly dwelling on untrue, negative or judgmental thoughts a smokescreen can be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 17, 2019:
@kodimerlyn I am sorry that you have the problem of depression. I am certainly not an expert in the field. Dr. Maultsby’s books worked for me in a dramatic way and I advertise that fact whenever the occasion arises. I must say however that my case was probably not as severe as what you describe.
I don’t think you can force your brain to do anything. What you can do however is to just observe in a detached way what you are thinking and feeling. Meditation trains you to note your thoughts and emotions without judgement and to turn gently away—over and over if need be.
Dr. Maultsby’s method requires that you sit down with pencil and paper and do an analysis of the thoughts that led up to mental pain. I learned that I was creating my own pain through the thinking of untrue things, and once I had it straightened out the pain disappeared. Specifically, it is analysis, NOT “positive thinking”. If a person has certain feelings, well damn it, that’s just the way it is—go with the flow.
I became convinced that our feelings are triggered solely by our thoughts. Those thoughts might be forgotten or suppressed however, and if so would be hard to ferret out.
Again, I am not offering this as some sort of expert. You have my utmost respect and I wish you the best of luck.
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 24, 2019:
Our reality is one big illusion IMO. Whether or not it is a happy illusion depends entirely on your habits of thought. A person can choose happiness as easily as flipping a switch. Life is inherently joyful, but by constantly dwelling on untrue, negative or judgmental thoughts a smokescreen can be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 17, 2019:
@kodimerlyn I am sorry that you have the problem of depression. I am certainly not an expert in the field. Dr. Maultsby’s books worked for me in a dramatic way and I advertise that fact whenever the occasion arises. I must say however that my case was probably not as severe as what you describe.
I don’t think you can force your brain to do anything. What you can do however is to just observe in a detached way what you are thinking and feeling. Meditation trains you to note your thoughts and emotions without judgement and to turn gently away—over and over if need be.
Dr. Maultsby’s method requires that you sit down with pencil and paper and do an analysis of the thoughts that led up to mental pain. I learned that I was creating my own pain through the thinking of untrue things, and once I had it straightened out the pain disappeared. Specifically, it is analysis, NOT “positive thinking”. If a person has certain feelings, well damn it, that’s just the way it is—go with the flow.
I became convinced that our feelings are triggered solely by our thoughts. Those thoughts might be forgotten or suppressed however, and if so would be hard to ferret out.
Again, I am not offering this as some sort of expert. You have my utmost respect and I wish you the best of luck.
Are positive illusions a necessary condition for being happy?
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 24, 2019:
Our reality is one big illusion IMO. Whether or not it is a happy illusion depends entirely on your habits of thought. A person can choose happiness as easily as flipping a switch. Life is inherently joyful, but by constantly dwelling on untrue, negative or judgmental thoughts a smokescreen can be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@kodimerlyn Your assessment only. Why are you so sensitive about what I say?
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 24, 2019:
Our reality is one big illusion IMO. Whether or not it is a happy illusion depends entirely on your habits of thought. A person can choose happiness as easily as flipping a switch. Life is inherently joyful, but by constantly dwelling on untrue, negative or judgmental thoughts a smokescreen can be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@kodimerlyn Your assessment only. Why are you so sensitive about what I say?
Strange how many people see depression as a form of not being happy!
There are many cases of ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 16, 2019:
What you do is not “think your way out of it”. You learn how to analyze the thoughts that you were having when you created the depression. The subconscious mind has no discrimination—it believes whatever you tell it, and worse, it controls your bodily reactions to reflect the lies you were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@kodimerlyn Care to say WHY you think the work of the late eminent Maxie Maultsby is horseshit? Just throwing out insults does nothing to advance your argument.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 16, 2019:
What you do is not “think your way out of it”. You learn how to analyze the thoughts that you were having when you created the depression. The subconscious mind has no discrimination—it believes whatever you tell it, and worse, it controls your bodily reactions to reflect the lies you were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@kodimerlyn Care to say WHY you think the work of the late eminent Maxie Maultsby is horseshit? Just throwing out insults does nothing to advance your argument.
Strange how many people see depression as a form of not being happy!
There are many cases of ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 16, 2019:
What you do is not “think your way out of it”. You learn how to analyze the thoughts that you were having when you created the depression. The subconscious mind has no discrimination—it believes whatever you tell it, and worse, it controls your bodily reactions to reflect the lies you were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 If a person is too agitated to think, I can see where a mild and temporary sedative might be called for.
Does science truly know how to get in there and fine-tune your brain—balance out those chemicals? I don’t think they do. Drug companies test substances randomly. They tried lithium and got some results. Then they tried rat poison (warfarin) and that changed moods to some extent. Hell, you might as well drink a quart of whiskey. It’d certainly change your mood. So would a quart of kerosene.Those clowns don’t know what they’re doing—they just want to get money.
The problem is not a brain problem in the first place. It is a thought problem. As an analogy, imagine that someone is trying to learn piano but they are horribly frustrated and depressed because they keep hitting the wrong notes. You might send some joker over with a pair of wire cutters to clip out the offending strings. That might temporarily relieve the frustration, but when the student realized that you had damaged her piano she would be liable to react with rage and violence. That’s how mass shooters are created.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 16, 2019:
What you do is not “think your way out of it”. You learn how to analyze the thoughts that you were having when you created the depression. The subconscious mind has no discrimination—it believes whatever you tell it, and worse, it controls your bodily reactions to reflect the lies you were ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 If a person is too agitated to think, I can see where a mild and temporary sedative might be called for.
Does science truly know how to get in there and fine-tune your brain—balance out those chemicals? I don’t think they do. Drug companies test substances randomly. They tried lithium and got some results. Then they tried rat poison (warfarin) and that changed moods to some extent. Hell, you might as well drink a quart of whiskey. It’d certainly change your mood. So would a quart of kerosene.Those clowns don’t know what they’re doing—they just want to get money.
The problem is not a brain problem in the first place. It is a thought problem. As an analogy, imagine that someone is trying to learn piano but they are horribly frustrated and depressed because they keep hitting the wrong notes. You might send some joker over with a pair of wire cutters to clip out the offending strings. That might temporarily relieve the frustration, but when the student realized that you had damaged her piano she would be liable to react with rage and violence. That’s how mass shooters are created.
New York Ends Religious Exemptions to Vaccines : NPR
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 15, 2019:
I can see a requirement that to attend a public school a person has to be vaccinated. Can the government actually tie someone up and vaccinate them against their will?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@darthfaja Nobody. I was asking a question.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 15, 2019:
I can see a requirement that to attend a public school a person has to be vaccinated. Can the government actually tie someone up and vaccinate them against their will?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2019:
@darthfaja Nobody. I was asking a question.
Canadian police chief gives $575 ticket to driver who tossed a lit cigarette out his car window
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
For best results a forest should be burned every three years.
Devil’s advocate here.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
@Carin I think they wait about ten years for the first burning. Burn too soon and the trees will be killed. Wait too long and you might have a conflagration that also will kill the trees.
I’m talking about pines in my area. It would probably be different in other places.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
For best results a forest should be burned every three years.
Devil’s advocate here.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
@Carin I think they wait about ten years for the first burning. Burn too soon and the trees will be killed. Wait too long and you might have a conflagration that also will kill the trees.
I’m talking about pines in my area. It would probably be different in other places.
HORRORS OF HINDUISM
The ancient Hindu tradition called ‘Sati’, wherein a widow would burn ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 14, 2019:
We are talking here about an Indian funeral custom that clashes with our Western values. I’m not sure if that custom is an example of the “horrors of Hinduism” as a religion. “Hindu” just means “Indian”. The traditional religion of India is a very disjointed thing, having no ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
@St-Sinner I’m sure you know more about it than I do, especially if your mother was Indian. I have read in various places that the word “Hindu” did not originate in India but originally was a label used by others for the people of India. The word “Hinduism” as a religion came into use only in the nineteenth century, coined by westerners.
http://pluralism.org/religions/hinduism/introduction-to-hinduism/what-does-hindu-mean/
Despite all the negative and questionable beliefs and practices associated with Hinduism I believe that within their tradition there lie some precepts and teachings of the utmost value to humanity as a whole. The technique of meditation is one of those, and the ancient Indians developed a religious philosophy par excellence IMO. The first time I read The Bhagavad Gita my spirits rose and I felt like shouting. I read that book every year or two. I am currently reading The Mandukya Upanishad, a profound book, full of deep meaning.
Obviously I can not become a Hindu. Besides not being able to remember their names, I feel no affinity for their various gods and goddesses or for their ceremonies and rituals. Astrology leaves me cold. Yet I have a great love for their scriptures and I respect their culture, imperfect though it may be.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 14, 2019:
We are talking here about an Indian funeral custom that clashes with our Western values. I’m not sure if that custom is an example of the “horrors of Hinduism” as a religion. “Hindu” just means “Indian”. The traditional religion of India is a very disjointed thing, having no ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
@St-Sinner I’m sure you know more about it than I do, especially if your mother was Indian. I have read in various places that the word “Hindu” did not originate in India but originally was a label used by others for the people of India. The word “Hinduism” as a religion came into use only in the nineteenth century, coined by westerners.
http://pluralism.org/religions/hinduism/introduction-to-hinduism/what-does-hindu-mean/
Despite all the negative and questionable beliefs and practices associated with Hinduism I believe that within their tradition there lie some precepts and teachings of the utmost value to humanity as a whole. The technique of meditation is one of those, and the ancient Indians developed a religious philosophy par excellence IMO. The first time I read The Bhagavad Gita my spirits rose and I felt like shouting. I read that book every year or two. I am currently reading The Mandukya Upanishad, a profound book, full of deep meaning.
Obviously I can not become a Hindu. Besides not being able to remember their names, I feel no affinity for their various gods and goddesses or for their ceremonies and rituals. Astrology leaves me cold. Yet I have a great love for their scriptures and I respect their culture, imperfect though it may be.
HORRORS OF HINDUISM
The ancient Hindu tradition called ‘Sati’, wherein a widow would burn ...
Deiter comments on Jun 14, 2019:
They're rather anti-sex too, despite those famous temples covered in Kama Sutra relief. (What's good for Krishna apparently ain't good for you.) The religious obsession with sex is (nearly) universal, it seems. Even Buddhism believes *one should neither be attached to nor crave sensual pleasure.* ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
You should read the Kama Sutra, thought ro have been written AD 100 to 600, available on Gutenberg Press.
It is s sizzling and very frank insight into Indian sexual practices of the day, and they weren’t the least bit prudish.
Deiter comments on Jun 14, 2019:
They're rather anti-sex too, despite those famous temples covered in Kama Sutra relief. (What's good for Krishna apparently ain't good for you.) The religious obsession with sex is (nearly) universal, it seems. Even Buddhism believes *one should neither be attached to nor crave sensual pleasure.* ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
You should read the Kama Sutra, thought ro have been written AD 100 to 600, available on Gutenberg Press.
It is s sizzling and very frank insight into Indian sexual practices of the day, and they weren’t the least bit prudish.
French philosopher Jean-Pierre Faye was the first to describe the horseshoe theory, the concept that...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
Interesting. Conversely broad-minded genuine conservatives and broad-minded genuine liberals are not at loggerheads. In fact, a person can be both liberal and conservative at the same time.
The same pattern can be seen in other areas. For example, an extreme hater of religion who has a dogmatic ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
@Matias Libertarians are liberal about personal freedoms such as a woman’s freedom to choose an abortion and the freedom to use drugs. They have conservative values when it comes to economics, but I’m sure you already knew that. Jimmy Carter, when he was running for president, described himself as liberal on social issues and conservative on financial matters.
I think being liberal or conservative means having certain personal traits. To be liberal is to love, respect and honor all your fellow humans—it’s not just to be in favor of programs that have been labeled as “liberal”. To be conservative is to be optimistic, to value the world the way it is and to respect tradition. Though liberals and conservatives might disagree on issues, there is no reason a person can’t have both liberal and conservative characteristics at the same time.
Maybe the true dichotomy is not left vs right but it is between radicalism and broad mindedness. Ego driven zealots are convinced that they have the true and correct solution for the problems of society, and they’ll do almost anything to promote their agendas. It doesn’t matter what they are pushing, whether left or right they’re all the same and their opinions are generally worthless. At the other end of the spectrum are leaders like Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter who tried to find consensus and promote harmony.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
Interesting. Conversely broad-minded genuine conservatives and broad-minded genuine liberals are not at loggerheads. In fact, a person can be both liberal and conservative at the same time.
The same pattern can be seen in other areas. For example, an extreme hater of religion who has a dogmatic ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 14, 2019:
@Matias Libertarians are liberal about personal freedoms such as a woman’s freedom to choose an abortion and the freedom to use drugs. They have conservative values when it comes to economics, but I’m sure you already knew that. Jimmy Carter, when he was running for president, described himself as liberal on social issues and conservative on financial matters.
I think being liberal or conservative means having certain personal traits. To be liberal is to love, respect and honor all your fellow humans—it’s not just to be in favor of programs that have been labeled as “liberal”. To be conservative is to be optimistic, to value the world the way it is and to respect tradition. Though liberals and conservatives might disagree on issues, there is no reason a person can’t have both liberal and conservative characteristics at the same time.
Maybe the true dichotomy is not left vs right but it is between radicalism and broad mindedness. Ego driven zealots are convinced that they have the true and correct solution for the problems of society, and they’ll do almost anything to promote their agendas. It doesn’t matter what they are pushing, whether left or right they’re all the same and their opinions are generally worthless. At the other end of the spectrum are leaders like Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter who tried to find consensus and promote harmony.
Curious how the patriotic words of The Star-Spangled Banner are set to a British tune!
Pre ...
Healthydoc70 comments on Jun 13, 2019:
Written by a white Supremacist and slave holder. THe 3rd stanza is anything but patriotic.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2019:
Slavery and the doctrine of White Supremacy were so pervasive at the time I’m surprised you would single out Francis Scott Key. According to Wikipedia Key freed his slaves by 1830 and became an abolitionist.
That third verse appears to be a scathing, bitter attack on the enemy marines, who were composed primarily of mercenaries and slaves. It’s overdone no doubt, but remember that Key had just witnessed a brutal attack on his home. In any event, I don’t see anything unpatriotic about the third stanza.
Healthydoc70 comments on Jun 13, 2019:
Written by a white Supremacist and slave holder. THe 3rd stanza is anything but patriotic.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2019:
Slavery and the doctrine of White Supremacy were so pervasive at the time I’m surprised you would single out Francis Scott Key. According to Wikipedia Key freed his slaves by 1830 and became an abolitionist.
That third verse appears to be a scathing, bitter attack on the enemy marines, who were composed primarily of mercenaries and slaves. It’s overdone no doubt, but remember that Key had just witnessed a brutal attack on his home. In any event, I don’t see anything unpatriotic about the third stanza.
Has anyone here been hypnotised, either by a stage hypnotist or clinically?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
I’ve seen it at shows but I simply can not allow myself to be controlled in that way. It is very fascinating though.
What is your experience in that regard?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 You and I can pride ourselves on being in the elite 10%. :-)
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
I’ve seen it at shows but I simply can not allow myself to be controlled in that way. It is very fascinating though.
What is your experience in that regard?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2019:
@Geoffrey51 You and I can pride ourselves on being in the elite 10%. :-)
Canadian police chief gives $575 ticket to driver who tossed a lit cigarette out his car window
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
For best results a forest should be burned every three years.
Devil’s advocate here.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2019:
@desertastronomer No, a controlled burn.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 13, 2019:
For best results a forest should be burned every three years.
Devil’s advocate here.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2019:
@desertastronomer No, a controlled burn.
"Conservatives tend to exhibit less support for egalitarian policies and generally oppose ...
webbew1 comments on Jun 12, 2019:
This does not take in to account the fact that there is a big difference between what goes on in the board room and what goes on in the bedroom. More cerebral activities such as business and governing (while certainly competative in their own way) require a communal effort in order to ultimately be...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 12, 2019:
Those elite breeding males might not be the ones sitting in board rooms or offices. They could be be farmers, practitioners of various sorts, commercial fishermen, entrepreneurs, athletes, construction workers, or just about anything else. They could even be drug lords.
webbew1 comments on Jun 12, 2019:
This does not take in to account the fact that there is a big difference between what goes on in the board room and what goes on in the bedroom. More cerebral activities such as business and governing (while certainly competative in their own way) require a communal effort in order to ultimately be...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 12, 2019:
Those elite breeding males might not be the ones sitting in board rooms or offices. They could be be farmers, practitioners of various sorts, commercial fishermen, entrepreneurs, athletes, construction workers, or just about anything else. They could even be drug lords.
So.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2019:
For all you folks bashing Donald, remember, Barack Obama ran on a platform that was in opposition to gay marriage the first time. He changed with the political tide.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@Remi I was talking about DonaldHRoberts but DT works also. You say Pence wants to eradicate people? I missed that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/opinion/mike-pence-is-not-anti-gay-im-a-gay-man-who-knows-hes-been-falsely-accused.amp
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2019:
For all you folks bashing Donald, remember, Barack Obama ran on a platform that was in opposition to gay marriage the first time. He changed with the political tide.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@Remi I was talking about DonaldHRoberts but DT works also. You say Pence wants to eradicate people? I missed that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/opinion/mike-pence-is-not-anti-gay-im-a-gay-man-who-knows-hes-been-falsely-accused.amp
“The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance—it is the illusion of knowledge.” -
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Only one thing is known with certainty, and that is that only one thing is known with certainty.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@gigihein That one thing is that only one thing...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Only one thing is known with certainty, and that is that only one thing is known with certainty.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@gigihein That one thing is that only one thing...
Wherever the poetry of myth is interpreted as biography, history, or science, it is killed.
FrostyJim comments on Jun 7, 2019:
The art of the absurd is only art to the absurd... it is what you want it to be and to those that are also absurd...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@FrostyJim I follow you. I don’t think Bohr was trying to be absurd though.
In high school we had to read Poe’s “The Raven”. At the time I thought it was ridiculous. A raven flying in and lighting over the door? “Never more” my ass! Ravens can’t talk.
Recently I heard it read on YouTube and I was affected in a totally different way. There are subconscious stirrings, not readily understood that arise having to do with a young man’s melancholy.
I could undertake to prove the poem false—it would be easy, but that would miss the point of the whole thing. I think that’s what Campbell is talking about in regard to mythology.
FrostyJim comments on Jun 7, 2019:
The art of the absurd is only art to the absurd... it is what you want it to be and to those that are also absurd...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@FrostyJim I follow you. I don’t think Bohr was trying to be absurd though.
In high school we had to read Poe’s “The Raven”. At the time I thought it was ridiculous. A raven flying in and lighting over the door? “Never more” my ass! Ravens can’t talk.
Recently I heard it read on YouTube and I was affected in a totally different way. There are subconscious stirrings, not readily understood that arise having to do with a young man’s melancholy.
I could undertake to prove the poem false—it would be easy, but that would miss the point of the whole thing. I think that’s what Campbell is talking about in regard to mythology.
How do you debunk it when someone claims religion, no matter it's true or false' serves as an ...
Vintenar comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I believe strongly that there is no gods, but do I know for sure there is no gods. I have no evidence that there Isn't a god just a much as they have no evidence that there is a god, so why should I try to persuade them that there beliefs are wrong.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Gareth
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/believing-bull/201109/you-can-prove-negative?amp
I didn’t mean it to be rude, but that thing about not being able to prove a negative is nothing but myth.
It is sometimes difficult or impossible to prove that something exists or does not exist with absolute certainty. Proof enough for me is that the unicorn is DEFINED in the dictionary as mythical.
Vintenar comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I believe strongly that there is no gods, but do I know for sure there is no gods. I have no evidence that there Isn't a god just a much as they have no evidence that there is a god, so why should I try to persuade them that there beliefs are wrong.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Gareth
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/believing-bull/201109/you-can-prove-negative?amp
I didn’t mean it to be rude, but that thing about not being able to prove a negative is nothing but myth.
It is sometimes difficult or impossible to prove that something exists or does not exist with absolute certainty. Proof enough for me is that the unicorn is DEFINED in the dictionary as mythical.
Wherever the poetry of myth is interpreted as biography, history, or science, it is killed.
FrostyJim comments on Jun 7, 2019:
The art of the absurd is only art to the absurd... it is what you want it to be and to those that are also absurd...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@FrostyJim Whatever. I guess what is absurd to one person is meaningful to another. Perhaps if you studied it further you might learn to grasp meaning or beauty.
FrostyJim comments on Jun 7, 2019:
The art of the absurd is only art to the absurd... it is what you want it to be and to those that are also absurd...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@FrostyJim Whatever. I guess what is absurd to one person is meaningful to another. Perhaps if you studied it further you might learn to grasp meaning or beauty.
How do you debunk it when someone claims religion, no matter it's true or false' serves as an ...
Vintenar comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I believe strongly that there is no gods, but do I know for sure there is no gods. I have no evidence that there Isn't a god just a much as they have no evidence that there is a god, so why should I try to persuade them that there beliefs are wrong.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Gareth Wrong. You can have evidence for negative assertions. Negative assertions are as easily proven as positive assertions.
Vintenar comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I believe strongly that there is no gods, but do I know for sure there is no gods. I have no evidence that there Isn't a god just a much as they have no evidence that there is a god, so why should I try to persuade them that there beliefs are wrong.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Gareth Wrong. You can have evidence for negative assertions. Negative assertions are as easily proven as positive assertions.
Wherever the poetry of myth is interpreted as biography, history, or science, it is killed.
FrostyJim comments on Jun 7, 2019:
The art of the absurd is only art to the absurd... it is what you want it to be and to those that are also absurd...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
Do you really think that such an eminent physicist as Niels Bohr should be classified as absurd?
*
* Niels Bohr:
*
* I feel very much like Dirac: the idea of a personal God is foreign to me. But we ought to remember that religion uses language in quite a different way from science. The language of religion is more closely related to the language of poetry than to the language of science. True, we are inclined to think that science deals with information about objective facts, and poetry with subjective feelings. Hence we conclude that if religion does indeed deal with objective truths, it ought to adopt the same criteria of truth as science. But I myself find the division of the world into an objective and a subjective side much too arbitrary. The fact that religions through the ages have spoken in images, parables, and paradoxes means simply that there are no other ways of grasping the reality to which they refer. But that does not mean that it is not a genuine reality. And splitting this reality into an objective and a subjective side won't get us very far.
FrostyJim comments on Jun 7, 2019:
The art of the absurd is only art to the absurd... it is what you want it to be and to those that are also absurd...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
Do you really think that such an eminent physicist as Niels Bohr should be classified as absurd?
*
* Niels Bohr:
*
* I feel very much like Dirac: the idea of a personal God is foreign to me. But we ought to remember that religion uses language in quite a different way from science. The language of religion is more closely related to the language of poetry than to the language of science. True, we are inclined to think that science deals with information about objective facts, and poetry with subjective feelings. Hence we conclude that if religion does indeed deal with objective truths, it ought to adopt the same criteria of truth as science. But I myself find the division of the world into an objective and a subjective side much too arbitrary. The fact that religions through the ages have spoken in images, parables, and paradoxes means simply that there are no other ways of grasping the reality to which they refer. But that does not mean that it is not a genuine reality. And splitting this reality into an objective and a subjective side won't get us very far.
More Americans have died, this year, because of guns than there were Americans killed on D-Day.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Rob1948 All of your suggestions seem reasonable. Both silencers and fully automatic firearms are so heavily controlled as to be essentially illegal already for most people.
Assault type rifles, machine guns, grenades, etc. might be limited to those who belong to a well regulated militia or rifle club.
I’ll probably get clobbered for this but I think before anyone is prescribed a psychotropic drug there should be an inspection of their homes to ensure that they will not be having access to firearms. Or just outlaw psychotropic drugs.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Rob1948 All of your suggestions seem reasonable. Both silencers and fully automatic firearms are so heavily controlled as to be essentially illegal already for most people.
Assault type rifles, machine guns, grenades, etc. might be limited to those who belong to a well regulated militia or rifle club.
I’ll probably get clobbered for this but I think before anyone is prescribed a psychotropic drug there should be an inspection of their homes to ensure that they will not be having access to firearms. Or just outlaw psychotropic drugs.
Wherever the poetry of myth is interpreted as biography, history, or science, it is killed.
magicwatch comments on Jun 7, 2019:
why dosent delete work ?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell
magicwatch comments on Jun 7, 2019:
why dosent delete work ?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell
To think that our human species of all the species on earth and of all the "earths" in the universe ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Mystics do not always vaunt the human species. A typical view by mystics is that we are not our bodies-that all of life is one thing, and that ultimate reality is comprised of universal consciousness.
Those undesirable outcomes that you deplore are seen simply as part of nature, neither good nor ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@FrostyJim Offhand I don’t see how you have any way of knowing. You go beyond the realm of science when you make value judgments regarding humanity.
Also when you state that competition among humans is “perpetuated by some mystical belief system”. Do you have evidence for this empirical truth of yours? Even our primate cousins fight among each other for territory and breeding rights.
Maybe truth is different in Wasilla.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Mystics do not always vaunt the human species. A typical view by mystics is that we are not our bodies-that all of life is one thing, and that ultimate reality is comprised of universal consciousness.
Those undesirable outcomes that you deplore are seen simply as part of nature, neither good nor ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@FrostyJim Offhand I don’t see how you have any way of knowing. You go beyond the realm of science when you make value judgments regarding humanity.
Also when you state that competition among humans is “perpetuated by some mystical belief system”. Do you have evidence for this empirical truth of yours? Even our primate cousins fight among each other for territory and breeding rights.
Maybe truth is different in Wasilla.
More Americans have died, this year, because of guns than there were Americans killed on D-Day.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@Rob1948 I feel safe enough, but from time to time there are attacks. I like to have a gun handy just in case.
Why don’t you want me to be able to defend my family?
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@Rob1948 I feel safe enough, but from time to time there are attacks. I like to have a gun handy just in case.
Why don’t you want me to be able to defend my family?
To think that our human species of all the species on earth and of all the "earths" in the universe ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Mystics do not always vaunt the human species. A typical view by mystics is that we are not our bodies-that all of life is one thing, and that ultimate reality is comprised of universal consciousness.
Those undesirable outcomes that you deplore are seen simply as part of nature, neither good nor ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@FrostyJim I don’t think there’s such a thing as empirical truth. Truth is not absolute but relative. Truth and falsity are value judgments—emotions.
I agree with your first sentence about evolution, but to infer from that that all of reality is nothing but a meaningless mechanistic process takes a religious-like leap of faith. Reality is a deeply profound, overwhelming phenomenon of staggering significance and value. Our conscious awareness of reality means that we are far beyond just being “superior” to other species. Our bodies are neither superior nor inferior to theirs. The continuum of life is consciously aware. “We” are them and “They” are us and existence is the mother of all miracles.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Mystics do not always vaunt the human species. A typical view by mystics is that we are not our bodies-that all of life is one thing, and that ultimate reality is comprised of universal consciousness.
Those undesirable outcomes that you deplore are seen simply as part of nature, neither good nor ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@FrostyJim I don’t think there’s such a thing as empirical truth. Truth is not absolute but relative. Truth and falsity are value judgments—emotions.
I agree with your first sentence about evolution, but to infer from that that all of reality is nothing but a meaningless mechanistic process takes a religious-like leap of faith. Reality is a deeply profound, overwhelming phenomenon of staggering significance and value. Our conscious awareness of reality means that we are far beyond just being “superior” to other species. Our bodies are neither superior nor inferior to theirs. The continuum of life is consciously aware. “We” are them and “They” are us and existence is the mother of all miracles.
More Americans have died, this year, because of guns than there were Americans killed on D-Day.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@Rob1948 No matter what time of day, it is a duty to defend yourself and your family however you can. Acting alone, your chances would be slim, but if death is in store a person has nothing to lose by fighting.
Under such circumstances there would be loosely organized militias on alert, and there might be advance warning,
Do you advocate just giving up in those circumstances—hoping the police or army might come? Remember, this is not some fantasy—it’s happened over and over.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@Rob1948 No matter what time of day, it is a duty to defend yourself and your family however you can. Acting alone, your chances would be slim, but if death is in store a person has nothing to lose by fighting.
Under such circumstances there would be loosely organized militias on alert, and there might be advance warning,
Do you advocate just giving up in those circumstances—hoping the police or army might come? Remember, this is not some fantasy—it’s happened over and over.
More Americans have died, this year, because of guns than there were Americans killed on D-Day.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@LenHazell53 I’m not actually saying that but I suppose that at some point government could turn on its citizens. In Algeria, and many other places it hasn’t been the government murdering people but fanatical terrorist groups.
In the early days of settlement firearms were absolutely essential for self-defense in this country, and there have been periods of unrest since then where firearm ownership by lawful citizens has prevented mayhem and anarchy.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@LenHazell53 I’m not actually saying that but I suppose that at some point government could turn on its citizens. In Algeria, and many other places it hasn’t been the government murdering people but fanatical terrorist groups.
In the early days of settlement firearms were absolutely essential for self-defense in this country, and there have been periods of unrest since then where firearm ownership by lawful citizens has prevented mayhem and anarchy.
More Americans have died, this year, because of guns than there were Americans killed on D-Day.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
Excellent response!
Some years back it was common for terrorist soldiers to sweep into Algerian neighborhoods and order the residents into the streets where they would be gunned down. I thought at the time that such a thing would not happen in the US where people are armed and ready.
BD66 comments on Jun 7, 2019:
This is what happens to unarmed populations:
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
Excellent response!
Some years back it was common for terrorist soldiers to sweep into Algerian neighborhoods and order the residents into the streets where they would be gunned down. I thought at the time that such a thing would not happen in the US where people are armed and ready.
One of basic flaws of arguments against religion as such put forward by Richard Dawkins and other ...
Bierbasstard comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Nations throughout history have waged war and conquest based on their religious beliefs. Modern extremism is a remnant of this outlook and behavior and should be condemned and the "sins of the father" acknowledged and recognized as the practices of ignorance.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
I can’t think of all that many wars that had religion as their basis. The Crusades, various Middle East wars. None fought by the US. But the list of wars fought for non-religious causes goes on and on.
Bierbasstard comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Nations throughout history have waged war and conquest based on their religious beliefs. Modern extremism is a remnant of this outlook and behavior and should be condemned and the "sins of the father" acknowledged and recognized as the practices of ignorance.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2019:
I can’t think of all that many wars that had religion as their basis. The Crusades, various Middle East wars. None fought by the US. But the list of wars fought for non-religious causes goes on and on.
How to write holy texts
4 simple rules
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner And what was the result? Was Christianity brought to the Middle East and established as the predominant religion or were the crusaders eventually kicked out?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner And what was the result? Was Christianity brought to the Middle East and established as the predominant religion or were the crusaders eventually kicked out?
Many atheists take it as self-evident that we are born as atheists, that not to believe anything ...
AnneWimsey comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Source(s)? Got any?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
We don’t need a source to express our intuitive insights. Some thoughts can be original. Think: What would be the source of the source? The source of the source of the source, ad infinitum?
AnneWimsey comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Source(s)? Got any?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
We don’t need a source to express our intuitive insights. Some thoughts can be original. Think: What would be the source of the source? The source of the source of the source, ad infinitum?
How to write holy texts
4 simple rules
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner I guess we’ll just have to disagree.
Wars are generally not fought in anger and hatred, they are fought for perceived self-interest. Anger and hatred in fact are detrimental emotions while fighting a war.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner I guess we’ll just have to disagree.
Wars are generally not fought in anger and hatred, they are fought for perceived self-interest. Anger and hatred in fact are detrimental emotions while fighting a war.
How to write holy texts
4 simple rules
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner Hatred is not helpful because it spawns more and more hatred, snowballing into pure hell.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner Hatred is not helpful because it spawns more and more hatred, snowballing into pure hell.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.
How to write holy texts
4 simple rules
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner It is enough to just speak out and give your opinion. Anger and hatred hurts only your self.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Claim you found some gold tablets out in the woods.
Translate those tablets into the English of the King James era. You need not be a scholar of ancient languages. Say that angels made way with the tablets and that they are not available for study by professionals.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@St-Sinner It is enough to just speak out and give your opinion. Anger and hatred hurts only your self.
"Beliefs define how we see the world and act within it; without them, there would be no plots to ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer You are supposedly a scientist. I would expect that a scientist would be very familiar with mathematical models.
Do you read physics books? I recommend “Reality is not What it Seems” by Carlo Rovelli.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer You are supposedly a scientist. I would expect that a scientist would be very familiar with mathematical models.
Do you read physics books? I recommend “Reality is not What it Seems” by Carlo Rovelli.
"Beliefs define how we see the world and act within it; without them, there would be no plots to ...
SCal comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Science is not about belief.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer We all need beliefs to function. Beliefs are value judgments or emotions. You must have believed that your message would be seen and read, otherwise why did you respond?
SCal comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Science is not about belief.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer We all need beliefs to function. Beliefs are value judgments or emotions. You must have believed that your message would be seen and read, otherwise why did you respond?
"Beliefs define how we see the world and act within it; without them, there would be no plots to ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer The planetary model works well for some purposes but we should never forget that, after all, it is just a model—a thought tool.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer The planetary model works well for some purposes but we should never forget that, after all, it is just a model—a thought tool.
"Beliefs define how we see the world and act within it; without them, there would be no plots to ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer “You woke up this morning. Wouldn't you call that an absolute truth?”
There’s nothing absolute about it. A body with which I am associated woke up if I remember correctly. My true and higher nature is an unknown mystery. Besides that, according to quantum gravity theory there’s no such thing as time. If you think you have possession of absolute truth you are sadly deluded.
Reality is not about belief. From a cosmic perspective human beliefs are insignificant and meaningless emotions. Emotions, that’s what beliefs are.
The nature of reality is a profound mystery. The appropriate response is not belief but a sense of utter bewilderment.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer “You woke up this morning. Wouldn't you call that an absolute truth?”
There’s nothing absolute about it. A body with which I am associated woke up if I remember correctly. My true and higher nature is an unknown mystery. Besides that, according to quantum gravity theory there’s no such thing as time. If you think you have possession of absolute truth you are sadly deluded.
Reality is not about belief. From a cosmic perspective human beliefs are insignificant and meaningless emotions. Emotions, that’s what beliefs are.
The nature of reality is a profound mystery. The appropriate response is not belief but a sense of utter bewilderment.
"Beliefs define how we see the world and act within it; without them, there would be no plots to ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer There is alway evidence but what is convincing evidence for some is not for others. Evidence or not, there’s no such thing as absolute truth. And whatever beliefs or opinions we humans profess with our pea brains are generally meaningless.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Beliefs are nothing but strong opinions. That’s my belief anyway.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
@desertastronomer There is alway evidence but what is convincing evidence for some is not for others. Evidence or not, there’s no such thing as absolute truth. And whatever beliefs or opinions we humans profess with our pea brains are generally meaningless.
Dutch KLM is going to use a new airplane that carries passengers in its wings.
rogueflyer comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Present aircraft designs are inherently stable. Something has to go horribly wrong for you to fall out of the sky. Flying wings are not. It takes extraordinary measures to keep them flying. The problems with the 737 max are caused by software. Standard airframe designs want to fly even under ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
Looks like it has a couple of very large tails. Maybe those will give it stability.
rogueflyer comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Present aircraft designs are inherently stable. Something has to go horribly wrong for you to fall out of the sky. Flying wings are not. It takes extraordinary measures to keep them flying. The problems with the 737 max are caused by software. Standard airframe designs want to fly even under ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
Looks like it has a couple of very large tails. Maybe those will give it stability.
"Beliefs define how we see the world and act within it; without them, there would be no plots to ...
SCal comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Science is not about belief.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
True, but scientists are human and humans seem to need beliefs to function.
SCal comments on Jun 3, 2019:
Science is not about belief.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2019:
True, but scientists are human and humans seem to need beliefs to function.
The "God" Part of the Brain: A Scientific Interpretation of Human Spirituality and God is a very ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2019:
@JacobMeyers There’s a limit to what a person can read, plus it costs money. If from reviews a person can get the drift I see it as perfectly rational to not read certain books. For example, if someone recommended that you read “Paradise Lost”, knowing that it is based on Christian theology would you feel obligated to read it anyway?
It works both ways. If you are touting this book because it reinforces your materialistic world view, then that is also cognitive bias.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2019:
@JacobMeyers There’s a limit to what a person can read, plus it costs money. If from reviews a person can get the drift I see it as perfectly rational to not read certain books. For example, if someone recommended that you read “Paradise Lost”, knowing that it is based on Christian theology would you feel obligated to read it anyway?
It works both ways. If you are touting this book because it reinforces your materialistic world view, then that is also cognitive bias.
There are a few on this site that think that capitalism is the end all be all.
Allamanda comments on Jun 1, 2019:
This is the third time I'm inserting this today, but really so relevant - and the only likely way out of the situation I can see! https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6278&v=QX3M8Ka9vUA
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@icolan You are diverting. I didn’t say that you were calling for the killing of wealthy people. It is a THOUGHT experiment showing that wealthy people are not the cause of poverty. You seem to have no argument to support your claim other than that the wealthy have more political influence. Each person gets one vote. Have you wondered why these hungry masses haven’t long since voted in a communist government? Instead it appears they are voting for the likes of Donald Trump. Maybe your pessimistic assessment in off base.
As I said, money is not true wealth. It is a fact so clear to me that I am amazed you don’t see it. Yes, if you have money you can trade for goods and services. Potentially you can obtain the things you need. The point is that having a trillion dollars does not make you a billion times richer than someone with only a thousand dollars. Beyond a certain point extra money is superfluous. We each eat a comparable amount of food, and wear one set of clothes at the time. A rich person might eat more expensive food, have a larger house, etc., but only by a marginal amount. The national supply of food, clothing and housing is not being depleted by the rich.
I’m off to bed. Good night.
Allamanda comments on Jun 1, 2019:
This is the third time I'm inserting this today, but really so relevant - and the only likely way out of the situation I can see! https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6278&v=QX3M8Ka9vUA
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@icolan You are diverting. I didn’t say that you were calling for the killing of wealthy people. It is a THOUGHT experiment showing that wealthy people are not the cause of poverty. You seem to have no argument to support your claim other than that the wealthy have more political influence. Each person gets one vote. Have you wondered why these hungry masses haven’t long since voted in a communist government? Instead it appears they are voting for the likes of Donald Trump. Maybe your pessimistic assessment in off base.
As I said, money is not true wealth. It is a fact so clear to me that I am amazed you don’t see it. Yes, if you have money you can trade for goods and services. Potentially you can obtain the things you need. The point is that having a trillion dollars does not make you a billion times richer than someone with only a thousand dollars. Beyond a certain point extra money is superfluous. We each eat a comparable amount of food, and wear one set of clothes at the time. A rich person might eat more expensive food, have a larger house, etc., but only by a marginal amount. The national supply of food, clothing and housing is not being depleted by the rich.
I’m off to bed. Good night.
There are a few on this site that think that capitalism is the end all be all.
Allamanda comments on Jun 1, 2019:
This is the third time I'm inserting this today, but really so relevant - and the only likely way out of the situation I can see! https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6278&v=QX3M8Ka9vUA
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@icolan As an argument against your assertions I present the following thought experiment: Since you think wealthy people are the cause of poverty, suppose we get rid of all those wealthy people. Just shoot’em or take away their stuff and make’em sleep in ditches and eat slop. Would that in any way add to the well-being of poor people? If you think so, please explain. For the life of me I can’t see how it would help. I can however see that there’d be overall degradation and even more poverty, as happened in Cambodia. Those fat cats serve a role.
Where there is hunger, the solution is to produce food, or to produce something that can be traded for food. Railing about “wealth” inequality accomplishes nothing. Money is not real wealth.
Allamanda comments on Jun 1, 2019:
This is the third time I'm inserting this today, but really so relevant - and the only likely way out of the situation I can see! https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6278&v=QX3M8Ka9vUA
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@icolan As an argument against your assertions I present the following thought experiment: Since you think wealthy people are the cause of poverty, suppose we get rid of all those wealthy people. Just shoot’em or take away their stuff and make’em sleep in ditches and eat slop. Would that in any way add to the well-being of poor people? If you think so, please explain. For the life of me I can’t see how it would help. I can however see that there’d be overall degradation and even more poverty, as happened in Cambodia. Those fat cats serve a role.
Where there is hunger, the solution is to produce food, or to produce something that can be traded for food. Railing about “wealth” inequality accomplishes nothing. Money is not real wealth.
There are a few on this site that think that capitalism is the end all be all.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
So far as material goods, humans are as well or better off as they have ever been. We are literally immersed in food, clothing and shelter. Besides that, we work relatively short hours and the hardest labor is done with the help of machines. I see little reason for grievance.
The economy ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@t1nick, @callmedubious I am very worried by that debt. Don’t blame it on the free market system. Blame it on ignorant greedy politicians, with GW Bush leading the pack.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
So far as material goods, humans are as well or better off as they have ever been. We are literally immersed in food, clothing and shelter. Besides that, we work relatively short hours and the hardest labor is done with the help of machines. I see little reason for grievance.
The economy ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@t1nick, @callmedubious I am very worried by that debt. Don’t blame it on the free market system. Blame it on ignorant greedy politicians, with GW Bush leading the pack.
There are a few on this site that think that capitalism is the end all be all.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
So far as material goods, humans are as well or better off as they have ever been. We are literally immersed in food, clothing and shelter. Besides that, we work relatively short hours and the hardest labor is done with the help of machines. I see little reason for grievance.
The economy ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@t1nick I know you aren’t calling for wealth redistribution. I was trying to define real wealth vs. money wealth. If you want to generate real wealth in your community maybe you could start up a new venture of some kind. That would be more productive than casting an envious eye upon the portfolios of certain individuals. You’ve already been adding wealth to your community through your teaching you know. You’re doing your part.
You are talking to an old cotton picker here. I’m not totally out of touch, but yes, I’ve been very fortunate. Our parents taught us about hard work, saving, and investing. For every advantage there’s a disadvantage though, and vice versa.
Vietnam was said to be one of the poorer countries, yet when I was there I was enthralled with their style of living. They might have been money-poor but they were living very well IMO. Life is not just about money.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
So far as material goods, humans are as well or better off as they have ever been. We are literally immersed in food, clothing and shelter. Besides that, we work relatively short hours and the hardest labor is done with the help of machines. I see little reason for grievance.
The economy ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@t1nick I know you aren’t calling for wealth redistribution. I was trying to define real wealth vs. money wealth. If you want to generate real wealth in your community maybe you could start up a new venture of some kind. That would be more productive than casting an envious eye upon the portfolios of certain individuals. You’ve already been adding wealth to your community through your teaching you know. You’re doing your part.
You are talking to an old cotton picker here. I’m not totally out of touch, but yes, I’ve been very fortunate. Our parents taught us about hard work, saving, and investing. For every advantage there’s a disadvantage though, and vice versa.
Vietnam was said to be one of the poorer countries, yet when I was there I was enthralled with their style of living. They might have been money-poor but they were living very well IMO. Life is not just about money.
There are a few on this site that think that capitalism is the end all be all.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
So far as material goods, humans are as well or better off as they have ever been. We are literally immersed in food, clothing and shelter. Besides that, we work relatively short hours and the hardest labor is done with the help of machines. I see little reason for grievance.
The economy ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@t1nick Lots of non-white folks live all around me. Most of them appear to be living well, or at least getting by without working multiple jobs. Some appear to get by just doing occasional day labor. Maybe where you live conditions are different, but I can’t believe that nation-wide 70% of the population works two to three jobs.
I think that the main point of our disagreement is that we have different definitions of wealth. You either have enough to live on or you don’t. If you have enough to fulfill your expectations you are wealthy. Having a trillion dollars in assets adds nothing to your well-being, nor does it take away well-being from others. Money is just an accounting system. I once calculated that if Bill Gates’s assets were equally distributed to the world’s population each person would receive enough money for a cup of coffee. More to the point, giving a million dollars to every person would not accomplish a thing. True wealth is created through hard work and imagination.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
So far as material goods, humans are as well or better off as they have ever been. We are literally immersed in food, clothing and shelter. Besides that, we work relatively short hours and the hardest labor is done with the help of machines. I see little reason for grievance.
The economy ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@t1nick Lots of non-white folks live all around me. Most of them appear to be living well, or at least getting by without working multiple jobs. Some appear to get by just doing occasional day labor. Maybe where you live conditions are different, but I can’t believe that nation-wide 70% of the population works two to three jobs.
I think that the main point of our disagreement is that we have different definitions of wealth. You either have enough to live on or you don’t. If you have enough to fulfill your expectations you are wealthy. Having a trillion dollars in assets adds nothing to your well-being, nor does it take away well-being from others. Money is just an accounting system. I once calculated that if Bill Gates’s assets were equally distributed to the world’s population each person would receive enough money for a cup of coffee. More to the point, giving a million dollars to every person would not accomplish a thing. True wealth is created through hard work and imagination.
There are a few on this site that think that capitalism is the end all be all.
Allamanda comments on Jun 1, 2019:
This is the third time I'm inserting this today, but really so relevant - and the only likely way out of the situation I can see! https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6278&v=QX3M8Ka9vUA
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
It’s all about gloom and doom and fear-mongering, and it’s based on envy. So what if a handful of people own most of the world’s securities? The only pertinent question is whether necessary goods and services are being produced and made available.
The world is awash in material wealth. The future is bright!
Allamanda comments on Jun 1, 2019:
This is the third time I'm inserting this today, but really so relevant - and the only likely way out of the situation I can see! https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6278&v=QX3M8Ka9vUA
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
It’s all about gloom and doom and fear-mongering, and it’s based on envy. So what if a handful of people own most of the world’s securities? The only pertinent question is whether necessary goods and services are being produced and made available.
The world is awash in material wealth. The future is bright!
The "God" Part of the Brain: A Scientific Interpretation of Human Spirituality and God is a very ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@powder Good point. We sometimes experience emotion in connection with some deeply inspiring thought. Emotion must surely be something produced by our brains and bodies. But that doesn’t invalidate what is behind the emotion.
Behind everything is a spark of conscious awareness.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@powder Good point. We sometimes experience emotion in connection with some deeply inspiring thought. Emotion must surely be something produced by our brains and bodies. But that doesn’t invalidate what is behind the emotion.
Behind everything is a spark of conscious awareness.
The "God" Part of the Brain: A Scientific Interpretation of Human Spirituality and God is a very ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@FrostyJim I’ve read some reviews, and while the book sounds interesting I am very skeptical.
If you are going to explain away spirituality by saying that our brains evolved to be spiritual as a survival tool, what’s to keep you from doing the same with every other human creation? Mathematics, art, communism, atheism, etc.?
Maybe our brains did evolve in that way through mutation and natural selection, but the deep questions about reality and existence remain. The mystery of conscious awareness and personal identity is not explained. And even if everything gets explained away as brain-stuff, we still are in total darkness because the basic parameters of our perception are illusions.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2019:
I haven’t read that book, but I am guessing how it goes. Neuroscientists have learned that when a person is having a spiritual experience a certain part of the brain becomes more active. Therefore spirituality is nothing but the firing of neurons, a rote mechanical process of no meaning or ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2019:
@FrostyJim I’ve read some reviews, and while the book sounds interesting I am very skeptical.
If you are going to explain away spirituality by saying that our brains evolved to be spiritual as a survival tool, what’s to keep you from doing the same with every other human creation? Mathematics, art, communism, atheism, etc.?
Maybe our brains did evolve in that way through mutation and natural selection, but the deep questions about reality and existence remain. The mystery of conscious awareness and personal identity is not explained. And even if everything gets explained away as brain-stuff, we still are in total darkness because the basic parameters of our perception are illusions.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 31, 2019:
@Kojaksmom I have the feeling you are trying to push my buttons. I am not in favor of any of those things and I will not discuss it further.
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 31, 2019:
@Kojaksmom I have the feeling you are trying to push my buttons. I am not in favor of any of those things and I will not discuss it further.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2019:
@Kojaksmom I thought I answered this yesterday. I am not a Christian Conservative in any shape, form or fashion. I was attending a service at the request of a daughter, but I left the Baptists 57 years ago. Though not a member, I don’t like seeing prejudice and hatred directed toward any group, especially under the guise of liberalism. It’s no better than racism. I live in the Deep South while you are in Appalachia. Maybe things are different there. After all, the South is a huge region with a third of the nation’s population.
Politically I lean toward Libertarianism, which is both liberal and conservative.
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2019:
@Kojaksmom I thought I answered this yesterday. I am not a Christian Conservative in any shape, form or fashion. I was attending a service at the request of a daughter, but I left the Baptists 57 years ago. Though not a member, I don’t like seeing prejudice and hatred directed toward any group, especially under the guise of liberalism. It’s no better than racism. I live in the Deep South while you are in Appalachia. Maybe things are different there. After all, the South is a huge region with a third of the nation’s population.
Politically I lean toward Libertarianism, which is both liberal and conservative.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2019:
@Kojaksmom “This is accomplished by the female taking a backseat and cowering to her husband's wishes.”
Maybe that has happened in your world but I’ve never seen it. I’ve heard of it.
When you throw out that “evangelical” word you might as well just say “Christian” because evangelism is pretty near universal among churches, even the Catholic Church. I once attended an evangelical church service where the topic of the male role in marriage was discussed. The male role was said to be that of walking ahead and bearing the brunt of life’s difficulties by defending and providing for the family. Personal dominance is not prescribed for either partner.
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2019:
@Kojaksmom “This is accomplished by the female taking a backseat and cowering to her husband's wishes.”
Maybe that has happened in your world but I’ve never seen it. I’ve heard of it.
When you throw out that “evangelical” word you might as well just say “Christian” because evangelism is pretty near universal among churches, even the Catholic Church. I once attended an evangelical church service where the topic of the male role in marriage was discussed. The male role was said to be that of walking ahead and bearing the brunt of life’s difficulties by defending and providing for the family. Personal dominance is not prescribed for either partner.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom Men.
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom Men.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom, @MST3K I agree on the suppression of doubt and questioning.
I’m thinking about the other part. My observation is that women tend to dominate.
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom, @MST3K I agree on the suppression of doubt and questioning.
I’m thinking about the other part. My observation is that women tend to dominate.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom “Southern Baptists are the worst.” And yet they send delegates to their convention who pass liberal resolutions.
Do what you want, but I don’t like making absolutist stereotypical judgments about any group. How is that better or different than racism?
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom “Southern Baptists are the worst.” And yet they send delegates to their convention who pass liberal resolutions.
Do what you want, but I don’t like making absolutist stereotypical judgments about any group. How is that better or different than racism?
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom That’s what evangelicals do—they spread the word. That’s what the term means.
That’s a long way from being a White Supremacist, wouldn’t you say? We are talking here about some of my friends and family members. It’s news to me about their being White Supremacists. I’ll have to ask them about that.
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom That’s what evangelicals do—they spread the word. That’s what the term means.
That’s a long way from being a White Supremacist, wouldn’t you say? We are talking here about some of my friends and family members. It’s news to me about their being White Supremacists. I’ll have to ask them about that.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2019:
Why just evangelical? Those same ten items are also present in the other Christian churches as well.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@irascible All I see is that fundamentalists are just like everyone else. If you know of some murderous Christian groups I’d like to learn just who they are.
You need to find a different label for your murderous Christian groups. The world “fundamentalist” is already taken, and is used by numerous religious groups around the world, all proudly a part of the fundamentalist movement.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fundamentalist_denominations
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2019:
Why just evangelical? Those same ten items are also present in the other Christian churches as well.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@irascible All I see is that fundamentalists are just like everyone else. If you know of some murderous Christian groups I’d like to learn just who they are.
You need to find a different label for your murderous Christian groups. The world “fundamentalist” is already taken, and is used by numerous religious groups around the world, all proudly a part of the fundamentalist movement.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fundamentalist_denominations
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom I don’t see how you can discount resolutions made in their convention. Southern Baptists are extremely democratic, meaning that the opinions of the delegates are closely aligned with the opinions of the church members. Of course the resolutions were not approved by all delegates—just a majority. Still, don’t you see that as good news?
Even if some of them do lean toward white supremacy, I don’t think you help matters by stereotyping and demonizing the group as a whole.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@Kojaksmom I don’t see how you can discount resolutions made in their convention. Southern Baptists are extremely democratic, meaning that the opinions of the delegates are closely aligned with the opinions of the church members. Of course the resolutions were not approved by all delegates—just a majority. Still, don’t you see that as good news?
Even if some of them do lean toward white supremacy, I don’t think you help matters by stereotyping and demonizing the group as a whole.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
—Martin Luther King, Jr.
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
If you read the most recent resolutions of the Southern Baptist Convention you’ll see that they in no way support or allow racism in any form.
http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/2287/on-renouncing-the-doctrine-of-the-curse-of-ham-as-a-justification-for-racism
Kojaksmom comments on May 29, 2019:
I live in the Bible Belt and it's incredibly disturbing how much in common the Evangelical ,anti-abortion men and women in the deep southern states are to the White supremacists. If you follow the teachings of the Southern Baptist evangelicals, you basically will create a dream come true for the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
If you read the most recent resolutions of the Southern Baptist Convention you’ll see that they in no way support or allow racism in any form.
http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/2287/on-renouncing-the-doctrine-of-the-curse-of-ham-as-a-justification-for-racism
Does anyone else also make a point of readign books which have been banned at one time?
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2019:
If you are talking about books being banned by government, prohibited from being printed or distributed, with punishment prescribed for violation, then you will get my immediate attention and I might want to read that book.
If a school decides that a book is inappropriate for its library I’m ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@TheInterlooper Copies seem available from various sources, printed in 1991. Is that the original version?
What is special about the book?
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2019:
If you are talking about books being banned by government, prohibited from being printed or distributed, with punishment prescribed for violation, then you will get my immediate attention and I might want to read that book.
If a school decides that a book is inappropriate for its library I’m ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@TheInterlooper Copies seem available from various sources, printed in 1991. Is that the original version?
What is special about the book?
Here are Evangelical Christianity’s 10 biggest gaslighting tactics
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2019:
Why just evangelical? Those same ten items are also present in the other Christian churches as well.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@MST3K I’m not so sure that evangelicalism and fundamentalism are the same thing, though some groups are both.
Also, I think Catholics and Anglicans are just as irrational. False is false. Are there degrees of falsity?
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2019:
Why just evangelical? Those same ten items are also present in the other Christian churches as well.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2019:
@MST3K I’m not so sure that evangelicalism and fundamentalism are the same thing, though some groups are both.
Also, I think Catholics and Anglicans are just as irrational. False is false. Are there degrees of falsity?
"Science cannot locate freedom, because its world is one of causal relationships.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak Awareness and appreciation for existence in reality as a consciously aware entity lends the keenest motivation to survive and live well, and it brings peace and joy.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak Awareness and appreciation for existence in reality as a consciously aware entity lends the keenest motivation to survive and live well, and it brings peace and joy.
"Science cannot locate freedom, because its world is one of causal relationships.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak Part of my opinion is based on intuitive insights that can not be verified by science in its current state, however it is an opinion promulgated by many eminent scholars and physicists over the last hundred years.
The “nonmaterialistic” part of my opinion has been so well established in physics since the time of Faraday and Maxwell that it needs no further verification.
Sir Arthur Eddington:
“The universe is of the nature of a thought or sensation in a universal Mind... To put the conclusion crudely — the stuff of the world is mind-stuff.
“We are no longer tempted to condemn the spiritual aspects of our nature as illusory because of their lack of concreteness.
“The scientific answer is relevant so far as concerns the sense-impressions... For the rest the human spirit must turn to the unseen world to which it itself belongs.”
Wolfgang Pauli:
“To us ... the only acceptable point of view appears to be the one that recognizes both sides of reality-the quantitative and the qualitative, the physical and the psychical-as compatible with each other, and can embrace them simultaneously ... It would be most satisfactory of all if physis and psyche (i.e., matter and mind) could be seen as complementary aspects of the same reality.”
Max Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter".
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak Part of my opinion is based on intuitive insights that can not be verified by science in its current state, however it is an opinion promulgated by many eminent scholars and physicists over the last hundred years.
The “nonmaterialistic” part of my opinion has been so well established in physics since the time of Faraday and Maxwell that it needs no further verification.
Sir Arthur Eddington:
“The universe is of the nature of a thought or sensation in a universal Mind... To put the conclusion crudely — the stuff of the world is mind-stuff.
“We are no longer tempted to condemn the spiritual aspects of our nature as illusory because of their lack of concreteness.
“The scientific answer is relevant so far as concerns the sense-impressions... For the rest the human spirit must turn to the unseen world to which it itself belongs.”
Wolfgang Pauli:
“To us ... the only acceptable point of view appears to be the one that recognizes both sides of reality-the quantitative and the qualitative, the physical and the psychical-as compatible with each other, and can embrace them simultaneously ... It would be most satisfactory of all if physis and psyche (i.e., matter and mind) could be seen as complementary aspects of the same reality.”
Max Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter".
"Science cannot locate freedom, because its world is one of causal relationships.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak My worldview is aligned with science.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak My worldview is aligned with science.
If this means conservative Christians would move away from the rest of us, I'm all for it.
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2019:
If they propose to be a US state wouldn’t they be subject to the constitution the same as all the other states? The Supreme Court might have something to say about their proposals.
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@UpsideDownAgain Thanks for your input. I’m relieved.
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2019:
If they propose to be a US state wouldn’t they be subject to the constitution the same as all the other states? The Supreme Court might have something to say about their proposals.
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@UpsideDownAgain Thanks for your input. I’m relieved.
"Science cannot locate freedom, because its world is one of causal relationships.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak I need only read the abstract to know that the authors were far off-track before they even began. It’s not a question of top-down control via a homunculus. I have made no such claim and am unaware of any serious claim like that by anyone. The idea is preposterous.
I have no academic credentials in that area but I do have ideas and opinions. IMO our bodies are robots with no free will and no conscious awareness. There is bodily sentience—robots routinely are equipped with sense receptors, but it seems impossible that neural impulses could create the kind of deep awareness that we enjoy—I agree with them on that.
Since conscious awareness can not be explained by rote electrochemical processes, their reaction is to declare that conscious awareness does not exist. They HAVE to make such a determination or else their entire materialistic world view would come crashing down.
Does reality consist of particles of matter moving through space and time? According to quantum gravity theory a particle of matter is not a “thing”, rather it is an interaction between covariant quantum fields. There’s no such thing as time. As far as space, space is nothing like what we imagine—an infinite expanse of emptiness. Space consists of a finite number of granules of planck length size.
The philosophy of materialism is DOA and clinging to that world view is futile. Physicists have long since quit such a simplistic perspective, so why do we continue to see these articles such as this one that you have cited?
What are we? We are not our bodies. Our conscious selves are not illusions brought about by rote physical processes in our bodies. Our bodies, along with the entire physical world of our perception, are illusions brought about by conscious awareness. We are conscious awareness itself, existing in ultimate reality.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2019:
@Gmak I need only read the abstract to know that the authors were far off-track before they even began. It’s not a question of top-down control via a homunculus. I have made no such claim and am unaware of any serious claim like that by anyone. The idea is preposterous.
I have no academic credentials in that area but I do have ideas and opinions. IMO our bodies are robots with no free will and no conscious awareness. There is bodily sentience—robots routinely are equipped with sense receptors, but it seems impossible that neural impulses could create the kind of deep awareness that we enjoy—I agree with them on that.
Since conscious awareness can not be explained by rote electrochemical processes, their reaction is to declare that conscious awareness does not exist. They HAVE to make such a determination or else their entire materialistic world view would come crashing down.
Does reality consist of particles of matter moving through space and time? According to quantum gravity theory a particle of matter is not a “thing”, rather it is an interaction between covariant quantum fields. There’s no such thing as time. As far as space, space is nothing like what we imagine—an infinite expanse of emptiness. Space consists of a finite number of granules of planck length size.
The philosophy of materialism is DOA and clinging to that world view is futile. Physicists have long since quit such a simplistic perspective, so why do we continue to see these articles such as this one that you have cited?
What are we? We are not our bodies. Our conscious selves are not illusions brought about by rote physical processes in our bodies. Our bodies, along with the entire physical world of our perception, are illusions brought about by conscious awareness. We are conscious awareness itself, existing in ultimate reality.
A question that some of the more scientifically minded christians sometimes will ask is:
If ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
To say that God did it is no answer at all unless you can define and understand God. It would be more honest to just say that you don’t know.
No matter what scientific explanations you give for nature, nature remains a deeply profound mystery.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@evidentialist You are right. Just throwing out the god label is meaningless chatter, especially if you mean a supernatural being external to nature. People who do that have no idea of what they are talking about.
The most honest and realistic assessment to me is that we are abjectly and totally ignorant regarding the deep questions of existence. We don’t even know what we ourselves are. No one understands conscious awareness, and the very concept of existence appears meaningless from a cosmic perspective.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
To say that God did it is no answer at all unless you can define and understand God. It would be more honest to just say that you don’t know.
No matter what scientific explanations you give for nature, nature remains a deeply profound mystery.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@evidentialist You are right. Just throwing out the god label is meaningless chatter, especially if you mean a supernatural being external to nature. People who do that have no idea of what they are talking about.
The most honest and realistic assessment to me is that we are abjectly and totally ignorant regarding the deep questions of existence. We don’t even know what we ourselves are. No one understands conscious awareness, and the very concept of existence appears meaningless from a cosmic perspective.
"Science cannot locate freedom, because its world is one of causal relationships.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@Gmak I don’t think memory has to come into play. Why do you think that unconscious memories frame our conscious awareness? I can be aware without remembering or even thinking. That is common in meditation.
There are people who have had brain damage who can only remember for a short while, yet they are consciously aware of their existence.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
How can it be? All our experiences are framed by conscious awareness and a sense of free will. It is the one thing that is NOT an illusion.
Edwin Schrodinger:
“Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@Gmak I don’t think memory has to come into play. Why do you think that unconscious memories frame our conscious awareness? I can be aware without remembering or even thinking. That is common in meditation.
There are people who have had brain damage who can only remember for a short while, yet they are consciously aware of their existence.
What I really like about this sight is, no matter what you post the primary response is ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
The earth is best modeled by an oblate spheroid, but that’s only a model. The earth has lumps.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@zesty It’s flat enough in that the curvature can be ignored for small areas.
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2019:
The earth is best modeled by an oblate spheroid, but that’s only a model. The earth has lumps.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@zesty It’s flat enough in that the curvature can be ignored for small areas.
A question that some of the more scientifically minded christians sometimes will ask is:
If ...
wordywalt comments on May 27, 2019:
Life exists due to a sheerly coincidental confluence of chemical substances and physical forces. It is as simply as that.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
It certainly doesn’t seem very simple to me. Reality is a very deep and profound mystery. There’s more here than meets the eye. Even the concept of existence is not clear. The only logical response that I can think of is total bewilderment.
wordywalt comments on May 27, 2019:
Life exists due to a sheerly coincidental confluence of chemical substances and physical forces. It is as simply as that.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
It certainly doesn’t seem very simple to me. Reality is a very deep and profound mystery. There’s more here than meets the eye. Even the concept of existence is not clear. The only logical response that I can think of is total bewilderment.
If this means conservative Christians would move away from the rest of us, I'm all for it.
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2019:
If they propose to be a US state wouldn’t they be subject to the constitution the same as all the other states? The Supreme Court might have something to say about their proposals.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@UpsideDownAgain Maybe his experiences were in Australia. Maybe it’s worse there.
There’s a small LDS group right here where I live and I can’t imagine that people around here would tolerate such things.
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2019:
If they propose to be a US state wouldn’t they be subject to the constitution the same as all the other states? The Supreme Court might have something to say about their proposals.
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2019:
@UpsideDownAgain Maybe his experiences were in Australia. Maybe it’s worse there.
There’s a small LDS group right here where I live and I can’t imagine that people around here would tolerate such things.
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