WilliamFleming's Profile

Gender Pay Gap?

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 17, 2018:

I don’t want women doing those jobs. Girls are born with about two million human eggs in their bodies. For the future of humanity a few of those eggs need to be protected, nourished, and possibly fertilized by a lucky male. Females are biologically more valuable. We guys are a dime a dozen. We...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 17, 2018:

@Jnei: As individuals we can do as we like, but please note that societies that used women for dangerous occupations died out ages ago, or they really never got started. There are good reasons why things are as they are.

Indoctrination within all religious services should not be allowed.

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 17, 2018:

There are some deep questions that are simply not understandable. Churches should foster awareness, appreciation, awe and gratitude. It is also important IMO for schools not to teach from a materialist/physicalist/reductionist philosophy. Schools should foster awareness, appreciation, awe and ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 17, 2018:

@MichealRay Really? Surely not a public school? I’ve done a few surveys in Bethel. Did that Ill-fated airport tower ever get built?

Gender Pay Gap?

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 17, 2018:

I don’t want women doing those jobs. Girls are born with about two million human eggs in their bodies. For the future of humanity a few of those eggs need to be protected, nourished, and possibly fertilized by a lucky male. Females are biologically more valuable. We guys are a dime a dozen. We...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 17, 2018:

@Dietl Of course I care about them. My uncle was killed in the invasion of Tarawa and I never got to meet him. It’s just that no society uses women in that way. If you believe in social evolution you might consider that societies that did not protect women died out. It’s survival of the fittest.

Gender Pay Gap?

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 17, 2018:

I don’t want women doing those jobs. Girls are born with about two million human eggs in their bodies. For the future of humanity a few of those eggs need to be protected, nourished, and possibly fertilized by a lucky male. Females are biologically more valuable. We guys are a dime a dozen. We...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 17, 2018:

@maturin1919, @dahermit, @Dietl Think of your mama, eight months pregnant with you inside. Now visualize her up on a scaffold a hundred feet high. Better yet think of her storming the beach at Tarawa with the Marines.

Gender Pay Gap?

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 17, 2018:

I don’t want women doing those jobs. Girls are born with about two million human eggs in their bodies. For the future of humanity a few of those eggs need to be protected, nourished, and possibly fertilized by a lucky male. Females are biologically more valuable. We guys are a dime a dozen. We...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 17, 2018:

@maturin1919, @Dietl I’m hardwired by nature to think that way. I have no choice. :-(

Free Will: Missing In Action.

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 16, 2018:

In answer to your last sentence, Yes. You wanted to write your post. You made a conscious decision do so and your body obeyed. If your post is nothing but just mindless automatic writing why should we read it? I have limited control over the internal workings of my iPhone but I have a lot of...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 17, 2018:

@johnprytz “Ah, but how do you know the Devil didn't make me do it, or maybe it was pixies who possessed me and imposed their will on me?” You are speaking of yourself as though you were your body. “You” are actually those pixies. Your true identity is the cosmos, everywhere at all times. The placebo effect actually does present a problem for those who think consciousness is created by the brain and that there’s no free will. The thought or belief that the body is healed actually brings real, measurable and testable changes to the physical body. Voila, it’s mind over matter—something that can’t happen under the materialist world view—but it happens nevertheless. And yes, it works the other way too, but it’s still mind over matter. So far as an experiment that demonstrates free will, this response is one such. I had a conscious desire to respond and I coaxed my body into action. The desire arose from factors not totally under my control, but I need not have given in to that desire. This kind of friendly banter is enjoyable for some reason, but so are other activities. It all comes down to my conscious awareness—without that I’d be nothing but a robot, and would have no free will.

Free Will: Missing In Action.

MrControversy comments on Dec 16, 2018:

I agree completely. My favorite one is the Dilemma of Determinism. It proves using logic why free will doesn’t exist. It divides the decision making process into two categories: it either happens randomly or it is determined by something. If our decisions were random we might as well roll dice for...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 16, 2018:

If our choices are determined by something, couldn’t that thing be a conscious being?

Evangelical Christians Helped Elect Donald Trump, but Their Time as a Major Political Force Is ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 14, 2018:

Trump was not elected by White evangelicals. Donald Trump was elected by a broad spectrum of voters from around the country. Only 20% of Americans report being White evangelicals, and only 77% of those voted for Trump. The numbers just aren’t there but I guess it feels good to have someone to ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 15, 2018:

@Flyingsaucesir, @Marine Do their votes not count? Who makes them vote as a bloc? I thought a bloc would be 100% and it was nowhere near 100% anywhere. Maybe it wasn’t a bloc, aye? Look at a map of the parts of the country that went for Trump. It was a total landslide in terms of electoral votes. You can not blame any one region or any one demographic.

Evangelical Christians Helped Elect Donald Trump, but Their Time as a Major Political Force Is ...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 14, 2018:

Trump was not elected by White evangelicals. Donald Trump was elected by a broad spectrum of voters from around the country. Only 20% of Americans report being White evangelicals, and only 77% of those voted for Trump. The numbers just aren’t there but I guess it feels good to have someone to ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 15, 2018:

@Flyingsaucesir Harrumph! My sister is a Baptist and she has absolutely no interest in creating a Christian State, nor does anyone else I know. You are way, way off in conspiracy theory land sir. It is truly odd that you would ascribe Trump’s victory to such a small demographic. Hey, 52% of White women voted for Trump. Why aren’t you ragging on them? Vast swaths of your own state of California voted for Trump. The votes were counted, Trump won, and not by a slim margin at all in terms of electoral votes. No one is to “blame”—the wishes of the public were made known. If all redheads in the Midwest had voted for Clinton she might have won. They didn’t and it is a meaningless speculation. I myself didn’t vote for Trump, but since he won, out of respect for the judgment of my fellow Americans I am giving him my full support, just as I did for Obama. That’s what democracy is about.

The Simulation Hypothesis: Evidence from Mental States.

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 12, 2018:

You raise some good points and make an interesting case. But who is the programmer and who is operating the computer? What is their reality like? Wouldn’t they have to be conscious and have free will? How is the computer constructed and where is it located? You say: “The elephant in the room...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 15, 2018:

@johnprytz IMO there’s no such thing as the supernatural, at least not in the magical sense in which the word is usually used. There is just the aspect of nature that we are unable to detect or understand with our human-based matter/space/time model of reality. If science ever grows beyond its present self-imposed limitations things considered metaphysics today might become physics. You can slap any label you want on it. The founders of quantum physics called it Universal Consciousness. Some say Panpsychism, others Panspiritism. Ancient Hindus called it Brahman, or ultimate reality. If anyone wants to call it God, I will not be disturbed in the least. No matter what silly word is used, we humans remain in deep ignorance. You seem to be calling it simulation theory and I’m fine with that. You raise interesting points.

For those interested, here’s a very thorough paper about what I’ve been calling Universal ...

cava comments on Dec 14, 2018:

STUART HAMEROFF got all tied up in his own thoughts :) I like the idea of panpsychism only not as something that adheres in all particles, but rather as the result of how certain particles are arranged, so then on a higher meta plane, somewhat like a higher dimension as was discussed. They ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 14, 2018:

We get crossed up with words. What I think organisms have is bodily sentience, or sensitivity to sensory input. What I’ve been calling deep conscious awareness is knowledge and appreciation for one’s existence. A robot can be equipped with sensors, and can be programmed to respond to sensations, but a robot doesn’t know that it exists. That’s just my usage—not necessarily the standard. It seems to me that whatever we detect using our senses has to be merely illusory or symbolic of an underlying reality that is totally inaccessible. Thanks for your response.

The Simulation Hypothesis: Evidence from Mental States.

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 12, 2018:

You raise some good points and make an interesting case. But who is the programmer and who is operating the computer? What is their reality like? Wouldn’t they have to be conscious and have free will? How is the computer constructed and where is it located? You say: “The elephant in the room...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 14, 2018:

@johnprytz Well sure, the characters “exist”, but only in the mind of the game player. Look inside your computer, examine the various software routines relating to the characters, and nowhere will you find anything remotely resembling the characters. No, it is not possible for me to assume that the characters will someday have conscious awareness. Above you were arguing that we ourselves don’t have conscious awareness and now you want me to assume that computer simulations will someday be conscious. Conscious awareness is the basic foundation of reality, not some simple thing made with software or neurons. I see the computer simulation concept as an analogy, and a very good one, The computer/operator in question is the cosmos itself. Our sense of existence as separate, aware individuals is illusory. It is true that we have existence of a sort, but it is an ephemeral existence in the cosmic mind. We as individuals have no conscious awareness and no free will, and as such we can neither see nor understand ultimate reality.

Bret Weinstein on the Dawkins Debate - YouTube

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 11, 2018:

I just watched it all. Thanks skado. As a layperson I am fully on board with evolution theory, and also I see nothing wrong with social evolution. For example, it makes perfect sense to me that tribes that did not protect women—that sent them to war or to hunt dangerous animals—those tribes ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 13, 2018:

@skado I made it partway through—maybe I’ll come back later. The book is a lot more understandable but it was a long time ago that I read it. Here’s a link to a very thorough treatment of Universal Consciousness: https://www.ecstadelic.net/top-stories/the-unified-field-and-the-quantum-nature-of-consciousness I’ll post it so anyone interested can read.

The Simulation Hypothesis: Evidence from Mental States.

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 12, 2018:

You raise some good points and make an interesting case. But who is the programmer and who is operating the computer? What is their reality like? Wouldn’t they have to be conscious and have free will? How is the computer constructed and where is it located? You say: “The elephant in the room...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 13, 2018:

@johnprytz The character in a video game is nothing but a symbolic arrangement of pixels created for the convenience of the user. Those characters have no true existence and they certainly have no conscious free will. You want me to ask the question from the perspective of one of the characters, but the characters have no perspective and such a question would be totally impossible. Whatever the characters appear to be thinking is just illusion or imagination. All of the consciousness, and all of the free will is being had by the player of the game, while character traits and behavior are preprogrammed. “Thinking” is analysis done by software. It’s a great analogy for what I’ve been suggesting all along. Our human bodies have no conscious awareness and no free will. In the background is an Ultimate Reality, and that reality is what has conscious awareness and free will. In that the player of the game is wrapped up with and identified with the fake reality of the illusory characters, she does not detect or understand Ultimate Reality, even though she herself is an extension of that reality.

Bret Weinstein on the Dawkins Debate - YouTube

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 11, 2018:

I just watched it all. Thanks skado. As a layperson I am fully on board with evolution theory, and also I see nothing wrong with social evolution. For example, it makes perfect sense to me that tribes that did not protect women—that sent them to war or to hunt dangerous animals—those tribes ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 12, 2018:

@skado I think I got the idea from the book by Jerry Fodor, the American philosopher, “What Darwin Got Wrong”. Fodor believes that natural selection plays a secondary role. But you are right, although Fodor cites studies, it’s the opinion of a philosopher and not a scientific study. Regretfully I have to retract. I never thought that epigenetics toppled the science of genetics or disproved the theory of evolution. What it does is show that the traditional way of understanding evolution, the way we were taught in school, is flawed and incomplete. I realize that few if any biological scientists are talking about a conscious universe. That kind of talk might get them fired. In the final analysis, what I think is that no one understands the evolution of life and that the previous cock-sure, know-it-all posturing is unsubstantiated. IMO, the door is open a little bit to the idea that Universal Consciousness might play a role. Universal Consciousnes, Panspiritism, or whatever you want to call it is not supernatural religious babble—some very astute scientists have advocated the concept. It is unproven metaphysics, but it is perfectly legitimate to think about and discuss.

Bret Weinstein on the Dawkins Debate - YouTube

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 11, 2018:

I just watched it all. Thanks skado. As a layperson I am fully on board with evolution theory, and also I see nothing wrong with social evolution. For example, it makes perfect sense to me that tribes that did not protect women—that sent them to war or to hunt dangerous animals—those tribes ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 12, 2018:

@skado https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090126203207.htm https://evolutionnews.org/2015/01/problem_4_natur/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/1736-greatest-mysteries-drives-evolution.html https://epigenie.com/epigenetics-at-the-intersection-of-environment-and-selection/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/aeon.co/amp/essays/on-epigenetics-we-need-both-darwin-s-and-lamarck-s-theories

Bret Weinstein on the Dawkins Debate - YouTube

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 11, 2018:

I just watched it all. Thanks skado. As a layperson I am fully on board with evolution theory, and also I see nothing wrong with social evolution. For example, it makes perfect sense to me that tribes that did not protect women—that sent them to war or to hunt dangerous animals—those tribes ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 12, 2018:

@skado OK, so evolution is not totally based on random happenings—only the mutations are random. The very rare beneficial mutation is supposedly preserved through natural selection while all the others are weeded out. I still have trouble accepting that standard evolution theory tells the whole story. One reason is the staggering complexity of organisms. That all of this could come into existence at all, no matter by what agency, is a miracle beyond miraculous. The powers that be want us to believe that all is well-understood and that life arose through simple mechanistic processes which we are not to question. I have doubts. Another reason: Why is no one talking about epigenetics? Studies show that adaptations do NOT happen primarily through natural selection, but through something else, something not easily understood with the mechanistic model but totally reasonable under the conscious-universe concept. Out of respect for you I am saying “mechanistic” rather than “materialistic”. :-) Let’s agree that all those genetic traits are encoded in the spiral strands of DNA, all coiled up there, lying in the cell. Compare with the set of blueprints lying on a table in a construction shack. You’ve got your plans for a skyscraper lying there, but that building doesn’t build itself. Conscious beings read those plans and take action.

Bret Weinstein on the Dawkins Debate - YouTube

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 11, 2018:

I just watched it all. Thanks skado. As a layperson I am fully on board with evolution theory, and also I see nothing wrong with social evolution. For example, it makes perfect sense to me that tribes that did not protect women—that sent them to war or to hunt dangerous animals—those tribes ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 11, 2018:

@skado Yes, I lean toward thinking such a thing. Maybe Homo Sapiens are a part somehow of an aware universe. It’s just too hard for me to believe that things fall together by random accidents.

Climate Science and the Myths of Renewable Energy - FOS Steve Goreham [youtu.

Dietl comments on Dec 11, 2018:

An article about Goreham and his false claims, for anyone interested: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/may/20/heartland-institute-scientists *"We know Mr Goreham isn't a climate scientist, in fact, isn't a publishing scientist at all."* Is there ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 11, 2018:

@bingst Who is “we”?

Climate Science and the Myths of Renewable Energy - FOS Steve Goreham [youtu.

Dietl comments on Dec 11, 2018:

An article about Goreham and his false claims, for anyone interested: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/may/20/heartland-institute-scientists *"We know Mr Goreham isn't a climate scientist, in fact, isn't a publishing scientist at all."* Is there ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 11, 2018:

Neither is Al Gore a climate scientist. What of it? Is there anything more to say, really?

Climate Science and the Myths of Renewable Energy - FOS Steve Goreham [youtu.

Bobbyzen comments on Dec 11, 2018:

I can’t even watch this. Even if you believe the minority of scientists who claim human activity has no impact on climate change, ignoring the documented negative impact on human health from oil & gas extraction, distribution, refining, wastewater injection, et.al. is a complete surrender to the ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 11, 2018:

But the public is 100% complicit—we are not victims. Besides that, without the use of fossil fuels a huge percent of the world’s population would have starved by now. AND besides that, those corporations are us, the shareholders. Anyone who has a retirement account more than likely is big oil. Do you propose going back to sailing ships, plowing with animals, mule trains for freight? Fine, but get ready for a big die-off.

If we Atheists and Agnostics are the antidote or solution to a religious world gone crazy, how can ...

skado comments on Dec 8, 2018:

The first word of your post may really be the operative word. The premise that follows that conjunction assumes that one group of people (a small minority) has the knowledge, the right, and presumably the power to set the majority straight. That doesn’t seem realistic, or maybe even morally ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 8, 2018:

BRAVO!!!

Can Patriotism as religion encourage a sense of superiority by those who clain to be Patriots?

Marine comments on Dec 6, 2018:

I consider myself a Patriot meaning I respect and am loyal to the concepts of our Constitution, military laws,and the laws of of country. It does not mean I accept bad laws or the or the neglect in upholding the merits of the Constitution such as the separation of church and state which is so ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 7, 2018:

@Marine In my opinion real religion is a personal subjective set of experiences and a way of life. That kind of religion requires no organization whatsoever, and certainly not one that demands respect, loyalty, and deference. So far as religious organizations that don’t require those things, you have Unitarians that require nothing. Quakers, New Thought Churches, and many others require nothing, not even belief. I think in general, Protestant Churches require belief in a creed, but as far as demanding respect, loyalty, and deference, no. I grew up in a Baptist Church, and other than affirming belief in Baptist doctrines, there were no demands. There is no hierarchy of power—ministers answer to the members of each church, and they habitually get fired by vote. There is no one to demand anything. A Baptist Church could switch to Islam by a simple vote if it wanted to.

Can Patriotism as religion encourage a sense of superiority by those who clain to be Patriots?

Marine comments on Dec 6, 2018:

I consider myself a Patriot meaning I respect and am loyal to the concepts of our Constitution, military laws,and the laws of of country. It does not mean I accept bad laws or the or the neglect in upholding the merits of the Constitution such as the separation of church and state which is so ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 6, 2018:

Not all religions are like that.

Hey Jesus, what do you think of the many people who kill life giving trees in a silly celebration of...

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 4, 2018:

The Yule tree is an old Germanic custom that far predates Christianity. So far as destroying life, forests need thinning. Even where the trees are grown commercially there’s no loss overall. The production of Yule trees is carbon-neutral. I doubt if ol’ JC would give it much thought. Of ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 5, 2018:

@IAJO163 IMO organic waste should never be hauled off to a landfill. Far better to compost on site if possible. If there’s no room for a compost pile, burning would be better for something like a Yule tree. I’m starting to sound like a contrarian I know. Sorry, that’s just the way I am. :-(

Lost Cause for the Confederacy For those who think the civil war has ended think again

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 4, 2018:

This is just the kind of fear-mongering, irresponsible, exaggerated article that I abhor. The thesis seems to be that southerners are chomping at the bit to reopen hostilities. It is an idiotic idea with no basis. What I suspect is an effort to arouse political support for left-wing causes through ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 5, 2018:

@JackPedigo OK, then where are the professional surveys that show such a serious looming problem? Cite those professional studies and reports please. Not some article concocted by a bigoted, hateful reporter.

Albert Einstein's 'God letter' sells for $2.9m - BBC News

Benthoven comments on Dec 4, 2018:

I have a book of talks he gave over the years to various groups, and it's a fascinating read.

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 4, 2018:

Is it a published book, available?

Lost Cause for the Confederacy For those who think the civil war has ended think again

Elganned comments on Dec 4, 2018:

My biggest problem with all the Confederate statues and monuments and such is not that they promote slavery (which they do); the North wasn't fighting to end slavery, and desertions spiked immediately after the Emancipation Proclamation. My problem with them is that they memorialize traitors. ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 4, 2018:

@Elganned “But there are those who, to this day, think that the cause was just and wish to carry it forward. Until there is repentance, there will be no forgiveness.” There are very few who wish to carry it forward. See my post above. So far as repentance, just who is it that has sinned here? Who is it that is to forgive? Great-great-grandchildren on both sides? How ridiculous! How condescending! In what way have you been wronged? I’ve said all I know about the subject. If you want to continue fighting the Civil War you’ll have to find another enemy.

Lost Cause for the Confederacy For those who think the civil war has ended think again

Elganned comments on Dec 4, 2018:

My biggest problem with all the Confederate statues and monuments and such is not that they promote slavery (which they do); the North wasn't fighting to end slavery, and desertions spiked immediately after the Emancipation Proclamation. My problem with them is that they memorialize traitors. ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 4, 2018:

@Elganned Why not honor and the respect the soldiers on both sides and let it rest? After all, no one alive today had anything whatsoever to do with that war. Demonization and name-calling will accomplish nothing. “Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” —Martin Luther King, Jr.

Lost Cause for the Confederacy For those who think the civil war has ended think again

Elganned comments on Dec 4, 2018:

My biggest problem with all the Confederate statues and monuments and such is not that they promote slavery (which they do); the North wasn't fighting to end slavery, and desertions spiked immediately after the Emancipation Proclamation. My problem with them is that they memorialize traitors. ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 4, 2018:

@Elganned Please explain what “deal with it” means to you. The parties came together after the war in a spirit of reconciliation and unity. It is only in modern times that left wing factions have tried to reopen the quarrel with their demands, accusations, and demonization. It is political propaganda. Can’t we move forward with mutual respect and get along?

Lost Cause for the Confederacy For those who think the civil war has ended think again

Elganned comments on Dec 4, 2018:

My biggest problem with all the Confederate statues and monuments and such is not that they promote slavery (which they do); the North wasn't fighting to end slavery, and desertions spiked immediately after the Emancipation Proclamation. My problem with them is that they memorialize traitors. ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 4, 2018:

I guess if there had been some sort of insurrection and an attempt to illegally seize control of the government I’d agree with the “traitor” part. That not the way it happened. One third of the country voted to go their own way. They thought they had that right. The Confederate soldiers were loyal to their states, to their families, and to the South. In my mind they were heroes. I do think that the southerners were mistaken to cling to slavery, but the North did not fight to end slavery—they fought to preserve the federation. The war could have been avoided. Compare with Brexit. No one is proposing to raise armies to keep Britain in the EU. We have a right to honor whomever we wish. Polls show that a majority of Americans, both Black and White, favor leaving Confederate memorials in place. If those things bother you, look the other way, or better yet, analyze your thoughts and emotions.

The logic of Buddhist philosophy goes beyond simple truth | Aeon Essays

Dietl comments on Dec 3, 2018:

As someone who studied logic it is a very interesting read but it didn't really convince me that it makes sense or is useful. The problem I have with it is that it takes natural languages and tries to somehow fit it into a logical structure, which is always possible even with things that make no ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 4, 2018:

@Dietl If nothing else it’s fun to talk about.

The logic of Buddhist philosophy goes beyond simple truth | Aeon Essays

Dietl comments on Dec 3, 2018:

As someone who studied logic it is a very interesting read but it didn't really convince me that it makes sense or is useful. The problem I have with it is that it takes natural languages and tries to somehow fit it into a logical structure, which is always possible even with things that make no ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 3, 2018:

@Dietl Assumptions underlie every logical system. Within a specific system an assertion is either true or false but there may be no way of finding out which. The assertion could also be meaningless or undefined as in your “pink is 15”. But change the assumptions and a true statement might become false and vice versa. Or it could become undecided or meaningless. In our ordinary everyday lives we take for granted a lot of assertions and think they are true, and they are true in the context of our personal realities. Many of those assertions are meaningless in the context of modern physics.

The logic of Buddhist philosophy goes beyond simple truth | Aeon Essays

Dietl comments on Dec 3, 2018:

As someone who studied logic it is a very interesting read but it didn't really convince me that it makes sense or is useful. The problem I have with it is that it takes natural languages and tries to somehow fit it into a logical structure, which is always possible even with things that make no ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 3, 2018:

Perhaps PEM is both true and not true. PEM is also indeterminate and also undefined. An assertion that is true in a particular logical system is one that does not contradict the other assertions within that system which were previously determined to be true. But also the assertion must be derivable from the assumptions of that system. If the assertion contradicts then it is false with respect to that system. If derivable and harmonious it is true with respect to that system. If it is derivable and not harmonious the system is kaput. If it does not contradict but is not derivable the assertion is undecided or indeterminate. The assertion could also be undefined or meaningless with respect to the system. Under a lot of different systems an assertion can be classified in a lot of different ways. Is there a universal or ultimate truth? I don’t know. This is what I am thinking in regards to the article, but I could be off course. In any event, I am not very confident about verbal logic as it is bandied about.

Which path do you prefer?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 30, 2018:

If a person concocts some far-fetched world view just to be comfortable then of course that would cast doubt on the validity of such a world view. On the other hand, a great many very intelligent people, going back to earliest history have toyed with the idea of universal consciousness. That ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 1, 2018:

@skado I don’t know why—I just want to know. Maybe if the spiritual paradigm becomes predominant people will be happier and there’ll be less conflict.

Which path do you prefer?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 30, 2018:

If a person concocts some far-fetched world view just to be comfortable then of course that would cast doubt on the validity of such a world view. On the other hand, a great many very intelligent people, going back to earliest history have toyed with the idea of universal consciousness. That ...

WilliamFleming replies on Dec 1, 2018:

@skado I don’t think that the concept of Universal Consciousness is the sort of thing that science, in its current form, is capable of analyzing. It is a metaphysical concept that does not lend itself to testing in a laboratory. I think the reason is that the concept is not about objective reality but rather it concerns personal identity and spirituality, as well as the nature of ultimate reality outside the world of our everyday experience. To someone bent on having a glorious eternal life in heaven as a separate ego, Universal Consciousness offers scant consolation. Look at it this way: We expect that when we die others will live on, and that the chain of life will continue. If the universe itself has conscious awareness, that is all that matters—we can just look at our identity as part of greater reality rather than just as a human body. People, even on this forum, keep saying that our sense of conscious awareness and free will is nothing but an illusion, and I tend to agree. It is impossible to see how a machine-like mass of flesh could be conscious and exercise free will, no matter how many neurons are firing. It is one of those deep, hard problems that has no solution under a materialist perspective, but if reality itself is conscious and has free will, then the problem dissolves. All of this is just a glimmer of insight based mainly on intuition. I certainly don’t understand Ultimate Reality because that is a very deep and impenetrable mystery. But IMO no one else understands either, and in particular, the materialist approach dies not even begin to provide answers. I agree with you in one way. Our human model of reality as matter moving through space and time is necessary for everyday functioning and survival, and all of us are tethered to that model most of the time—after all, we have these bodies to look after. But I enjoy thinking about the big picture part of the time—I get a feeling of intense alertness, of being poised on the edge of something unbelievably astounding. There is great value to life!

Which path do you prefer?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 30, 2018:

If a person concocts some far-fetched world view just to be comfortable then of course that would cast doubt on the validity of such a world view. On the other hand, a great many very intelligent people, going back to earliest history have toyed with the idea of universal consciousness. That ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 30, 2018:

@skado Can’t you lean heavily toward a conjecture without having absolutely solid proof? If no one ever thought about or discussed such things, then there would never be proof. When Einstein was working on his revolutionary ideas, it must have seemed absolutely ridiculous to many. After all, there was scant evidence and no proof at all, but that didn’t deter Einstein. As for me, when eminent physicists such as Max Planck write about Universal Consciousness, I will read with rapt attention and try to grasp the concept. If you want to see the evidence look at the books I mentioned in that other response. There are various deep questions that can not be answered from a materialist perspective but which are easily explained from the perspective of Universal Consciousness, or as Taylor calls it, Panspiritism.

Is the Universe Anthropic?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 30, 2018:

“For one, if such tuning has happened, what’s the basis for assuming that it happened with us “in mind”? Before delving into such a question I think we should try to find out what or who we ourselves are, and the nature of conscious awareness which frames our every experience. Please ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 30, 2018:

@jerry99 I’m all for science. But the philosophy of materialism is not science. It is, in fact, just as unscientific as creationism or astrology. Materialism is so prevalent in society that we take it for granted as being the only correct perspective. Anyone who even questions the orthodox dogma is immediately attacked.

Regarding Religion vs.

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 30, 2018:

*“A religion, old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the universe as revealed by modern science might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by conventional faiths. Sooner or later such a religion will emerge.” - Carl Sagan IMO that is the best quote in your ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 30, 2018:

@IslandGyal KIP THORNE: "There are large numbers of my finest colleagues who are quite devout and believe in God [...] There is no fundamental incompatibility between science and religion. I happen to not believe in God."[13] (Wikipedia) Science deals with objective, provable facts while religion is concerned with subjective reality. If there is apparent conflict it is because of ignorance or misunderstanding IMO.

It's been a huge privileged that we exist, being able to communicate about our existence and our ...

Matias comments on Nov 30, 2018:

We are not only able to communicate about our existence and our place in the cosmos, but also to wonder what is it all about? Given that our existence is pointless, the result of chance and necessity, I do not consider it to be a "privilege"

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 30, 2018:

Not a day goes by but that I wonder what it’s all about, but never once have I thought it to be pointless. There’s value in each other in the present and a running connection with all organisms past and future. If that’s not enough meaning, think of what we call nature—even atheists agree there’s a nature. From our human perspective nature seems to have created itself and established universal laws that cannot be broken. Nature brought about the dazzling miracle of life. Besides that, nature is associated with conscious awareness, the crown jewel of existence. I certainly don’t know what it’s all about, but I experience enough of reality to know that every second is priceless!

A young parent once asked me about how to raise an agnostic child.

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 29, 2018:

You seem to be talking about mindless, dogmatic religion, and I agree that children should not be indoctrinated into that sort of program. They should not be indoctrinated into anything. Each person gradually awakens to truth in her own time. The ultimate achievement IMO is to awaken to spirituality...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 29, 2018:

@skado Good point. Children mainly learn spontaneously by watching their parents IMO, and of course there has to be some discipline also, especially at an early age. What I think will backfire is a program or campaign to raise a child to fit certain narrow expectations such a a particular career or religious orientation.

Is all that because I am an atheist ?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 26, 2018:

We are extensions of Ultimate Reality, which is immortal by default. Our bodily individual selves will be gone, but IMO those selves are only illusions anyway. We were not born and we will not die.

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 27, 2018:

@belfodil “Reality is not What it Seems” by Carlo Rovelli is a good book on the subject, written for us laymen. Chapter Seven is “Time Does not Exist”. IMO we can not discover that other side of nature because we are treating it as an object “out there”. Maybe “WE” are that other side—I mean the consciously aware higher self we have in common.

Is all that because I am an atheist ?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 26, 2018:

We are extensions of Ultimate Reality, which is immortal by default. Our bodily individual selves will be gone, but IMO those selves are only illusions anyway. We were not born and we will not die.

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 26, 2018:

@belfodil according to quantum gravity theory there’s no such thing as time. It’s easy to see that without conscious awareness the concept of time is meaningless. From a cosmic perspective, questions about afterlives have no meaning—immortality is the default state. It’s a hell of a profound mystery in any event.

Is all that because I am an atheist ?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 26, 2018:

We are extensions of Ultimate Reality, which is immortal by default. Our bodily individual selves will be gone, but IMO those selves are only illusions anyway. We were not born and we will not die.

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 26, 2018:

As I see it, the world of our everyday lives is only symbolic of actual reality. We think in terms of matter, space and time, but those are just artificial concepts to help us organize sensory data to facilitate survival. According to quantum gravity theory time does not exist, space is particle-like and there are a finite number of space grains. A particle of matter is not a thing but an interaction between covariant quantum fields. Ultimate Reality is not something magical or supernatural. It is the aspect of nature that we can not detect with our senses or understand with our matter/space/time model. A map of Texas is not Texas. Except for superficial glimmers of insight by physicists. Ultimate Reality is a profound mystery. It is all that there is, but little can be said about It. I lean toward thinking that consciousness is an attribute of Ultimate Reality and that when we experience conscious awareness we are experiencing our true self. It is one Self. At that level we are all united. This paragraph is intuition, but there are some good arguments. “Spiritual Science” by psychologist Steve Taylor is a recent book that delves into the subject. Taylor describes himself as not religious.

Does anyone else here actually sit and think about the philosophical ideas of God, Love, .

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 25, 2018:

I do. As a retiree I have plenty of time for pondering things, and I am getting stimulating ideas from this forum. I don’t wrestle with the God question however. “God” has become an inappropriate word IMO for public discussions. But there is Nature, and what a marvel is Nature! This Nature ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 26, 2018:

@ShadowAmicus I wasn’t using “worship” in the religious sense. I think a lot of people who say they worship God actually are just going through the motions—presenting a show of worshiping. I worship Ultimate Reality in the sense of realizing its staggering implications and being totally confounded and left with a feeling of profound awe and appreciation.

Bible Belt leads the Nation in Black Friday Violence [patheos.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 24, 2018:

Apparently we are supposed to think that since religious behaviors are a few percentage points more prominent in the South, and fights are somewhat more likely in some southern places, then the cause of fighting is religion. It is a flawed way of thinking IMO. In the first place, the South is a vast...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 25, 2018:

@RavenCT I suppose you could call it that. It’s the taking of an advertisement by a real estate company that had a frivolous “study” attached and turning that into a vicious attack against one third of the country and against all religious people everywhere through over-generalization, also known as stereotyping.

Bible Belt leads the Nation in Black Friday Violence [patheos.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 24, 2018:

Apparently we are supposed to think that since religious behaviors are a few percentage points more prominent in the South, and fights are somewhat more likely in some southern places, then the cause of fighting is religion. It is a flawed way of thinking IMO. In the first place, the South is a vast...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 24, 2018:

@RavenCT Atheists are people with the courage, education and intelligence to break away from religious dogma, or they were raised as atheists. Either way, it is perfectly understandable that there would be but few atheists in prison. You can not from that infer that religious people are more likely to be criminals. As I pointed out, there is a different class of person who tends to do criminal acts, and I gave a link showing various studies that show confirmation. The so-called study was worthless. They didn’t look specifically at fighting in stores. They merely looked at government data on crime rates for each state and pretended to correlate that with some data they claim they gleaned from Facebook. If you want to launch a hateful attack on some of your fellow citizens, it is easy to point to some online article to back up your point of view. Never mind that other articles refute that point of view.

What platitudes really drive you mad?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 24, 2018:

I believe that from a cosmic perspective things really do happen for reasons and things that happen transcend the human concept of good vs. bad. It’s all good IMO, and that’s no platitude.

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 24, 2018:

@Fernapple Good idea—write my own Bible!

What platitudes really drive you mad?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 24, 2018:

I believe that from a cosmic perspective things really do happen for reasons and things that happen transcend the human concept of good vs. bad. It’s all good IMO, and that’s no platitude.

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 24, 2018:

@Amisja What you say is true but you are not taking a cosmic perspective. Nature places little value on the life of single organisms, but in a very real sense we are not our bodies anyway. We are Nature herself.

Who is God

Amisja comments on Nov 23, 2018:

Hello person behind this profile. I am reaching out to you, not the fake person you claim to be. Seriously look around this site. This site chooses evidence over fantasy, chooses science over hopes and prayers. It understands the frailty of human life but is prepared to stick around anyway. I know ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 23, 2018:

@Amisja Yes, I don’t understand.

How does a writer point to white male dominance?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 23, 2018:

Maybe White males are dominant in Arkansas but I’m not seeing it at my location. Somebody said we were supposed to be dominant but every time I try to exercise my dominance I get slapped down. Maybe I’ll move to Arkansas to where I can cash in on my White male dominance. So far as White ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 23, 2018:

@Sunsetmermaid I do not deny or dispute that there were past injustices, or that there are still biases, though to a lesser degree than before. There have also been a lot of exaggerations. My plan is to move forward with respect for all my fellow humans. I did not intend to insult you or denigrate your state. Sorry. Wallace is an interesting character study. I remember hearing him speak at Auburn when he was making his first successful run for governor. Clad in a brilliant blue suit, he cut quite a figure. There were Blacks and Whites in the outdoor audience and he had all of us in the palm of his hand. On his first, unsuccessful run, he had the backing of the NAACP because of his liberal views. Years later, on his final run for governor, he was swept into office with overwhelming support from the Black community. The intervening years were filled with an ego-ridden campaign of demagoguery and lust for power. Maybe getting shot was good for him. In the end his true nature came out. Actions speak louder than words. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/sept98/wallace031795.htm

Who is God

Amisja comments on Nov 23, 2018:

Hello person behind this profile. I am reaching out to you, not the fake person you claim to be. Seriously look around this site. This site chooses evidence over fantasy, chooses science over hopes and prayers. It understands the frailty of human life but is prepared to stick around anyway. I know ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 23, 2018:

How do you read all that into such simple and innocent questions?

Kiss Your Afterlife Goodbye! You can only hope to achieve an afterlife if you have some sort of ...

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 22, 2018:

“You are entirely 100% material at the end of your term since that's how you started out.” That depends on the definition of “you”. What evidence do you have for a materialistic reality? There is no such evidence, and in fact evidence points toward matter as being nothing but an ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 23, 2018:

@johnprytz Sorry, but my body’s instinct, and learned behavior refuses to proceed with the experiment, and our shared consciously aware self is totally disinterested because the proposed experiment would be meaningless. Consciousness, in fact, creates pain specifically to train and discipline the body and prolong its survival. The movement of matter in space and time is an artificial, symbolic human concept that helps us survive. There is Ultimate Reality, but it is of a wholly different category of existence. What you are proposing is for thoughts to control the physical body in setting up a bowling ball ten feet up and releasing it to fall on the foot. Have you stopped to consider what you are proposing? You are proposing that mind exert primary control over matter. It’s called telekinesis.

Free will or determinism?

David_Cooper comments on Nov 18, 2018:

We just do what we're driven to do - there's no real choice because all we ever do is try to do the best thing, and any attempt to do otherwise in order to demonstrate that we have free will immediately fail because that inferior choice would be driven by a desire to demonstrate free will.

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 18, 2018:

Likewise, any effort to demonstrate that we have no free will fails, since a desire to make such a demonstration is itself a demonstration of free will.

Regarding Atheists & Atheism: Some Random Thoughts Atheism is not just another faith, a faith ...

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 14, 2018:

John, John, now there’s no reason you have to fight against religion. I’ve been speaking out against Christianity for most of my life and not once have I been attacked by believers in the way you describe. Besides that I live squarely in the heart of the so-called Bible Belt. Is Australia more ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 18, 2018:

@johnprytz Sounds reasonable. I have no argument against what you say. The task at hand as I see it is to tame and console those fearful souls, and get them to realize that humanity is all one, an extension of Universal Consciousness and that the success of one is the success of all. “Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” —Martin Luther King, Jr.

Do you think it true?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 17, 2018:

Of course nature has meaning—an extreme amount of value and meaning! Why is that kind of awareness a danger? On the contrary, awareness and appreciation for the great mystery of Ultimate Reality lends the keenest of motivation to survive and live well. What is a danger is a dogmatic belief in ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 18, 2018:

@Fernapple The Nature whereof you speak is one that created itself, decreed certain immutable laws, brought about the dazzling miracle of life, and is awash with conscious awareness, which is the crown jewel of existence. How can you possibly suggest that nature has no meaning or purpose? Nature IS meaning, purpose, and value! One ideology that has been set up without evidence and that has led to accepting dishonesty in yourself and others—that ideology is the materialist, reductionist, physicalist dogma of scientism. That horrible delusion has led to untold misery in the world, countless wars and massive environmental destruction. That glittery fairytale lures people into a drunken, ego-driven sense of arrogance and condescension, leading them to believe that they have great knowledge and understanding of reality. In truth they are abysmally and totally ignorant and they are blind to that fact. How unfortunate to have leapt from the frying pan of dogmatic religious belief into the fire of dogmatic scientism! I have just begun to read a brilliant book, “Spiritual Science, Why Science Needs Spirituality to make Sense of the World”, by your fellow Brit, Steve Taylor. FYI, spirituality is not some magical, supernatural superstition. The spirituality of Steve Taylor is firmly grounded in reality, and there is much evidence. Open-minded people look directly at that evidence without blinders.

Answer without mind

Buxx comments on Nov 17, 2018:

Yes. There is proof. https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/a-mathematical-proof-that-the-universe-could-have-formed-spontaneously-from-nothing-ed7ed0f304a3 Quantum fluctuations.

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 17, 2018:

Those quantum fluctuations that are supposed to have caused the Big Bang: where did the quantum fields come from that did the fluctuating? What caused the laws of nature? Reality is a very deep and profound mystery, probably not understandable in human terms, and that article certainly sheds no light.

Regarding Atheists & Atheism: Some Random Thoughts Atheism is not just another faith, a faith ...

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 14, 2018:

John, John, now there’s no reason you have to fight against religion. I’ve been speaking out against Christianity for most of my life and not once have I been attacked by believers in the way you describe. Besides that I live squarely in the heart of the so-called Bible Belt. Is Australia more ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 17, 2018:

@johnprytz I guess it depends on your definition of extreme right wing. According to our illustrious news media, anyone who is a member of an “evangelical” church and votes Republican is a dangerous theocrat. There are two worlds, the world presented by news organizations and the real world of ordinary Americans. Those politicians you name might promote policies that favor the exercise of religion, but that is a long way from advocating theocracy. To establish a theocracy would require a coup d’etat and in the ensuing war the theocrats would be thoroughly thrashed. All this talk about theocracy is so much hyperbole IMO.

Regarding Atheists & Atheism: Some Random Thoughts Atheism is not just another faith, a faith ...

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 14, 2018:

John, John, now there’s no reason you have to fight against religion. I’ve been speaking out against Christianity for most of my life and not once have I been attacked by believers in the way you describe. Besides that I live squarely in the heart of the so-called Bible Belt. Is Australia more ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 16, 2018:

@johnprytz What about this? https://www.google.com/search?q=is+religion+declining+in+the+us%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari I predict that as organized religion continues to decline there will be fewer and fewer sleazy politicians who use religion to gain power. On the other hand, you have awakened me to the very real existence of a theocratic movement in the US, but it is a movement that is well below the horizon. https://www.google.com/search?q=does+the+religous+right+advocate+theocracy%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari#ip=1 Those groups bear watching, that’s for sure, and they must never be allowed to achieve their goals.

Regarding Atheists & Atheism: Some Random Thoughts Atheism is not just another faith, a faith ...

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 14, 2018:

John, John, now there’s no reason you have to fight against religion. I’ve been speaking out against Christianity for most of my life and not once have I been attacked by believers in the way you describe. Besides that I live squarely in the heart of the so-called Bible Belt. Is Australia more ...

WilliamFleming replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@johnprytz http://www.pewforum.org/2018/08/29/the-religious-typology/ According to this study only 12% of very religious people are strident religious conservatives, and that translates into only 5% of the general American population. There is a huge percentage of Americans who are conservative and who, incidentally are also religious and who are of no threat whatsoever. The “God and Country” types are extreme right-wingers who use religion as a cudgel. I do not believe in fear, except in temporary spontaneous flashes of alarm. Feed your fears with exaggerated or untrue judgmental thoughts and not only will you become seized with fear—you’ll become mortally unhappy. Political trends run in cycles. If these radicals get too powerful they’ll get batted down—you’ll see.

Capital punishment?

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 13, 2018:

I am undecided, however, for me it is not a moral issue—it is a question of what works best. From one perspective, we are not our bodies—we were not born and we do not die. We have responsible control of bodies though. It is unsociable to harm a person’s body or other property, such as ...