This post is for a debate. What caused the universe?

KissedbySun comments on Sep 26, 2018:

I don't think we can know, or need to know

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Christologist Why are you here commenting? If you know the answer why don’t you tell us what it is? The deep questions about reality are simply unknown. The most truthful and courageous response is just to say you don’t know. It is perfectly legitimate to discuss ideas about those questions in a give and take manner, but no one has the ultimate answers. I see that you claim to be a “believer”. Belief is useless—worse than useless. Is it belief in God that you are flaunting? Then you are merely substituting one mystery for another because the idea of “God” is nothing but a symbol for the great unknown reality beyond the senses. It’s not about belief. The only reasonable responses that I can see to the overwhelming mysteries of reality are awareness, appreciation, and gratitude. This in turn is expressed as respect for each other.

Where Did the Universe Come From?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 26, 2018:

According to current quantum theories of physics, time does not exist. See Carlo Rovelli’s book “Reality is Not What it Seems”. If time is merely an illusion “come from” is not a meaningful concept, and your question can not be answered, especially not within the framework of our ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Christologist do you really think that physicists have no observable, repeatable, testable evidence for their theories? I have no compunctions about quoting professionals. There is nothing shameful or deficient in doing so. It became known over a hundred years ago through Einstein that time as we experience it is an illusion in that there is no universal time standard. But in quantum field theory it has been discovered that time is simply not needed. The way I think of it is like a book of trigonometric tables. In that book are many fluctuations and changes, and those changes are real and can be tested. But trigonometry has nothing to do with time. Another analogy is a novel. The pages of a novel are ordered in sequence—one page follows another. A person reading that book creates her own sense of time. Time is a function of awareness. The actual book is timeless. There is getting to be a credibility gap here. You are claiming to have answers to the deep questions of existence, yet I don’t see you putting forth any of those answers. Surely a person of your great knowledge would have published books by now and achieved great fame. Can you point to any such books? If your answer is that God did it, you have no answer at all. You are merely substituting one mystery for another.

Do I have free will?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 26, 2018:

I lean toward thinking that our bodies are automatons and that they have no conscious awareness. How can a bunch of particles stuck together have awareness? The idea makes no sense to me, and no one seems able to explain how it could happen. Without conscious awareness obviously there can be no free...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Christologist it’s not a question of belief—no belief is necessary. Yes, what we know is conscious awareness. All our experiences are framed in awareness. The nature of that awareness is a mystery to me, but I lean toward the idea that it is something shared, and that our sense of self as an individual is an illusion.

Do I exist? Can I really know anything? Where do you begin in philosophy?

Dietl comments on Sep 26, 2018:

Yes. Depends on your definition of 'to know'. Depends on your taste. I suggest trying essays of the famous philosophers on topics you like.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Christologist We know nothing except superficially. Ultimate reality is a deep and unfathomable mystery and if you think you understand it you are mistaken.

Where Did the Universe Come From?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 26, 2018:

According to current quantum theories of physics, time does not exist. See Carlo Rovelli’s book “Reality is Not What it Seems”. If time is merely an illusion “come from” is not a meaningful concept, and your question can not be answered, especially not within the framework of our ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Christologist I do not have an advanced degree in physics. I have quoted a noted physicist. Take it up with him.

Where Did the Universe Come From?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 26, 2018:

According to current quantum theories of physics, time does not exist. See Carlo Rovelli’s book “Reality is Not What it Seems”. If time is merely an illusion “come from” is not a meaningful concept, and your question can not be answered, especially not within the framework of our ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@Christologist “We must learn to think of the world not as something that changes in time, but in some other way. Things change only in relation to one another. At a fundamental level there is no time. Our sense of the passage of time is only an approximation that is valid for our macroscopic scale. It derives from the fact that we perceive the world in a coarse-grained fashion.” Carlo Rovelli “Reality is not What it Seems” Sounds like what you are saying I think. But saying that things happen in order, one after the other, isn’t that the same thing as time? I’m confused. I understand also that on the quantum level weird things happen with time that challenges the normal notion of time. I am way beyond my range of knowledge.

From my experience there are large numbers of people that will not come out and call themselves an ...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 25, 2018:

I am an atheist with respect to the mythical pagan gods of old, and I am an atheist with respect to Yahweh, the God of the Bible. But I do not call myself an atheist or agnostic in general because I lean toward the idea of universal consciousness— something like Brahman or ultimate reality. I ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

@xenoview Not so. I am describing subjective experiences. I am not making assertions that require proof. Also I said that I “lean”. That leaves plenty of room for dissent. There are a lot of ways to discuss the pros and cons of universal consciousness. Demanding proof is not one of them. You are the one making a bald-faced assertion. Please present proof that I am required to present proof.

Where Did the Universe Come From?

LenHazell53 comments on Sep 26, 2018:

Existence is, because the natural state of affairs demands it to be so. The alternate is non existence which is an impossibility, since non existence is the absence of all existence, like cold and dark this is only a concept, there is not an actual thing, as that would negate that which is being ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 26, 2018:

For me it is not possible to shrug off the question so easily. Your answer is a non-answer.

For the ones who are spiritual, which and what do you believe and how did you come to believe it

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 24, 2018:

Spirituality is not much concerned with belief or disbelief. Spirituality comes from deep awareness and appreciation for the higher and truer reality beyond the senses. Spiritual people live in joy and gratitude because they are not afraid to face the staggering, overpowering implications of the ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 25, 2018:

@Proto Of course I agree that beliefs about objective reality should be based on testable facts. The question was about spirituality and I was trying to explain that spirituality is subjective—it’s about awareness, appreciation, awe, etc, and that belief or disbelief simply don’t apply. The correct response is bewilderment IMO.

For the ones who are spiritual, which and what do you believe and how did you come to believe it

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 24, 2018:

Spirituality is not much concerned with belief or disbelief. Spirituality comes from deep awareness and appreciation for the higher and truer reality beyond the senses. Spiritual people live in joy and gratitude because they are not afraid to face the staggering, overpowering implications of the ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 24, 2018:

@Proto It is almost universally acknowledged that the perceptions of our senses are nothing but a symbolic representation of reality created by our minds—basically a dream based on a matter/space/time model. There is nothing to believe or disbelieve about that. It is established fact and plain to everyone who even thinks about it briefly. Read “Reality is Not What it Seems” by eminent man of physics, Carlo Rovelli. Heck, read any of thousands of books on physics. Sir Arthur Eddington: The universe is of the nature of a thought or sensation in a universal Mind... To put the conclusion crudely — the stuff of the world is mind-stuff. We are no longer tempted to condemn the spiritual aspects of our nature as illusory because of their lack of concreteness. The scientific answer is relevant so far as concerns the sense-impressions... For the rest the human spirit must turn to the unseen world to which it itself belongs.

The one thing we all have in common is that we don't buy into organized religion, however, is there ...

GeorgeRocheleau comments on Sep 24, 2018:

I believe in electrons, but l have never seen one.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 24, 2018:

@PraiseXenu As I understand it, quantum gravity theory has it that particles exist only as interactions within or between fields, and are not “things”. Of course that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I’ve never seen a particle of beauty but I sometimes experience beauty indirectly. It exists as a mental phenomenon. It boils down to the meaning of “exist”.

The one thing we all have in common is that we don't buy into organized religion, however, is there ...

ipdg77 comments on Sep 23, 2018:

I believe that all consciousness is connected we just haven't evolved enough yet to get anywhere near understanding it or its potential (or otherwise)

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 23, 2018:

Great response! I’m with you 100%.

Do you agree with stem cell research?

JackPedigo comments on Sep 22, 2018:

Yes and no? One, often overlooked aspect of our exponential population growth is people (like me) living longer. Keeping us alive and well takes resources away from others. often younger people. I have lived a great life and still contribute as much as I can. But, still keeping me going (especially ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 22, 2018:

I agree with what you are saying.

A word from Socrates worth thinking about.

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 21, 2018:

Sometimes when people lose arguments they resort to slander.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 21, 2018:

@genessa Some sometimes.

See it all the time.

Matias comments on Sep 21, 2018:

If happiness is based on an illusion, why should we destroy it? Truth is not a good or an end in itself (people who think so are unwittingly falling in the trap of an old Christian prejudice: that "the Truth will liberate us"). No, sometimes illusions are conducive to health and happiness, and ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 21, 2018:

Interesting article. I think that in general a person is better off with the truth. Depression arises from thinking untrue thoughts related to that truth, not the truth itself. In order to become depressed I first have to recognize some potentially disturbing circumstance. Then I have to embellish the circumstance with fearful predictions. A person who merely accepts the truth and makes the best of the situation does not become depressed. Someone who refuses to recognize truth might go along blithely, happy as a lark, but they stay in a rut and miss a higher sort of happiness. That’s what I think anyway.

Octopuses taking MDMA get all huggy and loved-up with each other | New Scientist

chalupacabre comments on Sep 21, 2018:

I know a lot of people who call it abuse when they hear of pet owners blowing pot into the faces of their dogs or cats to see them do silly things. I'm not sure how this is different, especially given the significantly different physiology between people and octopi. It sounds like they simply chose ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 21, 2018:

Has turning octopi into sushi been vetted for ethics?

Growing up in casual association with the Baptist Church in the Heart of Dixie in the 1950s, I had a...

Tominator comments on Sep 20, 2018:

1950s deep south, everyone could mutually agree to just hate the black folk.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 21, 2018:

@Tominator of course I remember all that. You said that everyone in the Deep South hated Blacks, and that just isn’t true. For example, Blacks are people and presumably they didn’t hate themselves. I was growing up in Alabama in the fifties and I don’t remember many expressions of hatred, There was definitely resistance to integration but that is not necessarily hatred. In our household we saw our parents being respectful, and in our rural neighborhood that was the norm. Instead of concentrating on the “Deep South” it would be more rational to talk about racial discrimination across the country and what progress has been made. There are professional studies that show which places are still today burdened with segregation and racism, and the Deep South is nowhere near the top of the list. Lynchings are nothing but vigilante justice—certainly not justifiable, but isn’t vigilante justice happening in cities around the country right now? Six cases in ten years in the South make great fodder for South bashers but that’s nothing like the number that occur daily around the country. Work for harmony and fairness by setting an example—let go the past.

Growing up in casual association with the Baptist Church in the Heart of Dixie in the 1950s, I had a...

Tominator comments on Sep 20, 2018:

1950s deep south, everyone could mutually agree to just hate the black folk.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 20, 2018:

Not really. Your statement is too general.

Personal stories harm caused by religion.

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 21, 2018:

Better to dwell on the good things from the past. If any harm was caused, I was complicit, and I take responsibility. Either way, the past is gone—the present moment is beautiful and miraculous.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 19, 2018:

@Happyonearth Maybe I was lucky.

Do you think that living in a foreign country for a long period of time changes people?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 18, 2018:

I think that whatever you do that puts you in contact with a greater world will change you and broaden your perspectives. Just being in the army taught me respect for all types of people. If you lived out on a farm and never even went to town, by necessity your opinions would be mostly based on ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 19, 2018:

@Johnnyvee Great, and I agree to some degree. I was just asking, that’s all. A few social programs are good and necessary IMO if they are well managed and don’t get out of hand. It’ll be interesting to see how Cuba progresses from here—how much the free market is allowed.

Do you think that living in a foreign country for a long period of time changes people?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 18, 2018:

I think that whatever you do that puts you in contact with a greater world will change you and broaden your perspectives. Just being in the army taught me respect for all types of people. If you lived out on a farm and never even went to town, by necessity your opinions would be mostly based on ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 19, 2018:

@Johnnyvee Do you think that Marxist Communism is superior to a free market economy?

Do you think that living in a foreign country for a long period of time changes people?

JanGarber comments on Sep 19, 2018:

I have always wondered what the people we think of as conservatives are conserving.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 19, 2018:

When Jimmy Carter was running for president he said that he was a fiscal conservative, meaning I suppose that he wanted to conserve a free market economy. Many conservatives want to conserve the right to keep and bear arms. Others want to conserve the right to free speech, freedom of religion, the right to assemble, etc. IMO, a conservative can also be liberal, and vs versa.

Do you think that living in a foreign country for a long period of time changes people?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 18, 2018:

I think that whatever you do that puts you in contact with a greater world will change you and broaden your perspectives. Just being in the army taught me respect for all types of people. If you lived out on a farm and never even went to town, by necessity your opinions would be mostly based on ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 18, 2018:

@Wangobango3 I have no doubt that there are some good things about Cuba. There were some good things about communist Russia, but eventually systems like that fail. From Wikipedia: The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (also known as "El Paredón").[141][142] Human Rights Watch has stated that the government "represses nearly all forms of political dissent" and that "Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law".[143] I expect that a few years in Cuba would open your eyes. I spent a year among Cubans in Miami, and I can assure you that there are two sides to the issue.

Do you think that living in a foreign country for a long period of time changes people?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 18, 2018:

I think that whatever you do that puts you in contact with a greater world will change you and broaden your perspectives. Just being in the army taught me respect for all types of people. If you lived out on a farm and never even went to town, by necessity your opinions would be mostly based on ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 18, 2018:

@Johnnyvee I just looked it up and I see that Castro did come to power near the end of the Eisenhower administration, so I was wrong. Still I don’t think Nixon can be blamed for the US rejection of Castro.

Do you think that living in a foreign country for a long period of time changes people?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 18, 2018:

I think that whatever you do that puts you in contact with a greater world will change you and broaden your perspectives. Just being in the army taught me respect for all types of people. If you lived out on a farm and never even went to town, by necessity your opinions would be mostly based on ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 18, 2018:

@Johnnyvee I didn’t call liberals narrow-minded. I said that there is narrow-mindedness on both sides of the political spectrum. I know that narrow-mindedness is not a liberal trait, but there are hordes of people calling themselves liberal who have no liberal traits. I’m sure there are some good things about the Cuban system, however, people are not flocking there to live. They flock to places where a free-market has brought wealth and well-being and where they can start businesses. Pure communism has fallen flat wherever it has been imposed, or has only survived, as in China, by embracing some traits of a free market economy. As I recall, Nixon was only Vice President, and that was under Eisenhower. Castro gained power while JFK was in office. Maybe you are thinking of Batista. The implication in the post is that if conservatives would only live in foreign countries for a spell they’d become liberals—that sounds bogus to me..

Creationism isn't just wrong scientifically and historically, it's also wrong ethically and morally.

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 17, 2018:

You seem angry.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 18, 2018:

@Ritchie Now you sound serene and that makes me relax. :-) Actually you have every right to be zealous. It’s none of my business. Speaking of evolution, are you up on epigenetics? I don’t know much about it myself, but I understand that newer studies show that genes can be turned on and off, making possible changes that occur much too fast to be caused by natural selection. That in no way invalidates the theory of evolution or points toward creationism. It just means that there’s a lot more to evolution than what we were taught in school. I personally am open to the idea that the course of evolution can be influenced through conscious awareness. In fact, it is demonstrably true. It happens all the time when breeders select for certain desired traits.

The Middle Way Society: Agnosticism

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 17, 2018:

I’m all for the middle way, and thanks for the link. I’m going to save that. I have the problem of not knowing if agnosticism is the middle way for me with respect to the existence of God. There’s a plethora of mythical gods out there, such as Thor, etc. and with respect to those I am a hard ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 18, 2018:

@TheMiddleWay I got that about hard agnosticism, but in my case I have no doubt at all that there is an ultimate reality behind the sense world. I am almost totally ignorant about the nature of that reality, but if I start calling myself a hard agnostic that will imply that I don’t know if such a reality exists, which is not true. To complicate matters, we ourselves are a part of that higher reality. It seems to me that our response need not include belief or faith or disbelief or the withholding of belief. That is settled. Nor do we have to refuse to deal in metaphysical questions because there are no rational answers and probably will never be rational answers. The response that seems correct to me is continuous awareness, appreciation, awe and gratitude. Those are subjective reactions, not analyses of what is “out there”. It’s all about me. :-)

What physics or physical law(s), principle(s) or relationship(s) determine the value of the physical...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 16, 2018:

It is a mind-boggling question, along with several other questions with no scientific answers. Why does anything exist at all? What is conscious awareness and how does it arise. How did life begin? Why am I me? Explain how a system of cells can have free will. I would appreciate a prompt answer. ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 17, 2018:

@johnprytz I agree there’s nothing wrong in saying we don’t know, and to say that God did it is no answer at all. That just substitutes one mystery for another. I’m not sure what you mean by emergent. Do you mean that those things arose through the interplay of particles of matter? As I see it, that explanation also just substitutes one mystery for another. I don’t see how our bodies can have true free will—seems impossible. Yet we experience free will directly through conscious awareness. It seems that “WE” are something else than just bodies.

So...do doctors cure people or do prayers cure people...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 16, 2018:

Neither. Our bodies heal themselves. Doctors can sometimes assist in the process. A positive mental attitude is very helpful IMO.

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 16, 2018:

@TheAstroChuck Good points. Maybe those big pharmaceutical companies need to be sued out of existence if they are doing more harm than good.

Do you celebrate Christmas?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 15, 2018:

Most of what we do at Christmas comes from old Germanic customs that predate Christianity. It was cause for celebration that the days were starting to get longer, so our ancestors put up a tree, had a feast, decorated their houses with greenery, lit candles, burned the Yule log, and gave gifts to ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 16, 2018:

@helionoftroy I’m not sure but one dictionary says it was just the winter months in Old English. I think in Sweden they say Yul for Christmas. How would you get it started? It’s hard to change such an ingrained word. Yule could start on the Solstice and last through New Year’s Day. Christians could still have their Christmas as usual I suppose.

We know that the human mind did not evolve to know reality as such but only those aspects of reality...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 16, 2018:

I agree fully with this assessment. “Ultimate Reality” is not a thing to be believed or disbelieved. About all we can do with regards to Ultimate Reality is to stand in awe and appreciation. Maybe the word “God” has been ruined through misuse, and should be abandoned. Matias, I hope ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 16, 2018:

@skado I get what you are saying, and I agree to some extent. The problem as I see it is that the word “God” includes a host of ancient mythical figures such as Zeus, Woden, Ares, etc., etc. Then there’s Yahweh, the old Semitic God that is worshipped by Jews, Muslims, and Christians in some form or other. I’m not very well educated about this, but isn’t Yahweh a product of the harsh desert society, patriarchal, stern, punishing. That is the God worshipped by most of the world’s people. I don’t call myself an atheist but if that’s all I knew about God I’d be an atheist too. The Hindus have a bunch of minor gods or demigods in their possession, but then, while keeping those they developed the sophisticated metaphysical concept of Brahman, a concept that resonates with me and makes me shiver in awe, even though I have no training in the subject. Brahman of the Upanishads is a different kettle of fish than mythical gods like Jahweh, and anyway, I don’t think the Indians present Brahman as a god. “Ultimate Reality” would be closer. As I say, I am no expert, but I do lean toward thinking there’s a higher power beyond the world of our senses, and that the word “God” as it is used by most people is not an adequate name for that higher power. I greatly value your input.

“Either God wants to get rid of evil, but he can’t; or God can, but he doesn’t want to; or God...

genessa comments on Sep 16, 2018:

this has been posted here many times and it proves nothing. there is no god but this isn't what proves it. all this proves is that those who believe in a god need to make their definitions clearer. there is no proof that there is no god. there doesn't need to be proof; you can't prove a ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 16, 2018:

@genessa Proving a Negative: http://departments.bloomu.edu/philosophy/pages/content/hales/articlepdf/proveanegative.pdf

“Either God wants to get rid of evil, but he can’t; or God can, but he doesn’t want to; or God...

genessa comments on Sep 16, 2018:

this has been posted here many times and it proves nothing. there is no god but this isn't what proves it. all this proves is that those who believe in a god need to make their definitions clearer. there is no proof that there is no god. there doesn't need to be proof; you can't prove a ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 16, 2018:

Good reply, and I basically agree, except that proving a negative is no problem at all.

Any recovering Southern Baptists out there?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 15, 2018:

Maybe I’m already recovered. On a deep level I don’t think I ever bought into the hell thing, probably because my mama used to rail against the concept. I’ve seen first hand though that early indoctrination about hell has been a severe burden for some. Whoever thought up the concept of hell...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 16, 2018:

@tshaaj If you spend your time thinking about disgusting, horrible things then yes, believing it so does make it so for you. You create your own hell on earth.

Albert Einstein believed in the pantheistic god of 17th century rationalist Baruch Spinoza.

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 13, 2018:

For me the concept of God is a mental symbol, an icon that represents the great and mysterious reality beyond our sense world. God is not a thing—belief or disbelief in an icon is entirely inappropriate. The only thing appropriate in regards to an icon is awareness, appreciation, awe and gratitude...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 13, 2018:

@benhmiller I’m sorry you have such a negative opinion of us humans. I don’t see it that way at all. It’s true that our bodies are part of the natural world, and our bodies have to deal with nature in its most brutal aspect, and we have to compete for life with the other animals. But I lean toward thinking that our bodies are nothing but robots and that our true selves are something else, a universal consciousness in which all share. That might sound like woo to you but that’s what I think.

Albert Einstein believed in the pantheistic god of 17th century rationalist Baruch Spinoza.

genessa comments on Sep 13, 2018:

that's odd, because einstein didn't claim to believe in any kind of gods at all. in fact he indicated otherwise. g

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 13, 2018:

@genessa It sounds as though you are well versed in Dr. Einstein’s views. His views seem very confused and contradictory, somewhat like mine. Maybe all we should say about him is that he was very reverent toward nature. Deep awareness trumps religious opinions IMO.

Capitalism works on much the same principle as evolution.

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 12, 2018:

If ALL Christians denied evolution and also worshipped capitalism it would be extremely odd indeed. However I know a lot of Christians who have no problem with evolution, and I know a lot of Christians who lean toward socialism. For various reasons agricultural regions tend to be conservative in...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 13, 2018:

@pnfullifidian I don’t like to even think about all those silly Christian doctrines. There are some modern churches that emphasize the teachings of Jesus and foster reverence and awe for reality. Others retain the old dogmas to a degree but allow for interpretations that are consistent with science. A Pew study shows that about half of all scientists believe in God. I can’t believe that those scientists are involved in the fundamentalist churches that you and I grew up in.

Albert Einstein believed in the pantheistic god of 17th century rationalist Baruch Spinoza.

genessa comments on Sep 13, 2018:

that's odd, because einstein didn't claim to believe in any kind of gods at all. in fact he indicated otherwise. g

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 13, 2018:

“I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.” I think I got that off Wikiquotes.

Capitalism works on much the same principle as evolution.

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 12, 2018:

If ALL Christians denied evolution and also worshipped capitalism it would be extremely odd indeed. However I know a lot of Christians who have no problem with evolution, and I know a lot of Christians who lean toward socialism. For various reasons agricultural regions tend to be conservative in...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 12, 2018:

@BeerAndWine What’s the name of the group? How many of ‘em are there?

Capitalism works on much the same principle as evolution.

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 12, 2018:

If ALL Christians denied evolution and also worshipped capitalism it would be extremely odd indeed. However I know a lot of Christians who have no problem with evolution, and I know a lot of Christians who lean toward socialism. For various reasons agricultural regions tend to be conservative in...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 12, 2018:

For some reason I can no longer edit my remarks. I get a weird form labeled “answer” “source”& “photo”. The text appears, and I can alter that text, but when I press “submit” nothing happens. I tried reloading the app. Can someone help?

Drug company CEO calls 400 percent price hike ‘moral requirement’

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 11, 2018:

A rational person would not normally pay such prices, but under our system, where insurance is involved, people often don’t even know what the price is. I’m afraid it’s a big free-for-all at the hog trough, and the result is a huge health insurance premium for all. In a high percentage of ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 11, 2018:

@Krish55 I know, but something will have to happen at some point. What do you propose?

Can science and religion be reconciled?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 8, 2018:

There is nothing to reconcile. Science and religion are in different categories. It’s like asking if art can be reconciled with mathematics. Science deals in objective reality. It makes observations of nature and discovers mathematical equations that model those observations. Science is good at...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 11, 2018:

@Fibonacci1618 I just read about simulation theory on Wikipedia. It reminds me of Donald Hoffman and his theory of Conscious Realism. That is something that seems to resonate.

Can science and religion be reconciled?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 8, 2018:

There is nothing to reconcile. Science and religion are in different categories. It’s like asking if art can be reconciled with mathematics. Science deals in objective reality. It makes observations of nature and discovers mathematical equations that model those observations. Science is good at...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 11, 2018:

@Fibonacci1618 I’ve briefly looked at the book, and I’m sort of floored. I’m not a psychic kind of person—not at this time. I am open to psychic ideas from a philosophical perspective. Maybe our entire conscious experience is one big psychic phenomenon. I’ll keep the book on my iPhone and try to work my way through it—try to understand and relate. Do you have some of those psychic experiences yourself?

Can science and religion be reconciled?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 8, 2018:

There is nothing to reconcile. Science and religion are in different categories. It’s like asking if art can be reconciled with mathematics. Science deals in objective reality. It makes observations of nature and discovers mathematical equations that model those observations. Science is good at...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 11, 2018:

@TheMiddleWay Thanks, I’ll check into that.

FACT AND FICTION - - - - - - Some members of this forum have accused me of trying to reconcile fact...

Marionville comments on Sep 11, 2018:

It is hard for most people who have been in an indoctrinated religion to see things in as nuanced a manner as you. They see things through the prism of their former religious belief, and having concluded that they were deceived into believing a myth and feel they were lied to, they tend to have a ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 11, 2018:

Very well said! Thank you.

Religions: More harm then good?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 3, 2018:

The interchanging of the words “faith” and “religion” does not seem right to me because not all religious groups require faith or belief. Besides, there are large numbers of people who are not associated with any religious group but who practice their own private forms of religion. It is ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 9, 2018:

@HereticSin I have never thought of religion as an alternative to science. They are in different categories. Science has come a long way, but at its core science is superficial. I don’t know what you mean by transcendent but if you mean supernatural you are not describing what I think, unless you say that all of nature is supernatural. “Wow, this is really deep” does not even begin to describe what I experience in regard to the staggering implications of the mystery of existence.

Can science and religion be reconciled?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 8, 2018:

There is nothing to reconcile. Science and religion are in different categories. It’s like asking if art can be reconciled with mathematics. Science deals in objective reality. It makes observations of nature and discovers mathematical equations that model those observations. Science is good at...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 9, 2018:

@Matias Good point. If we seem science and religion as contradicting each other, we can reconcile them in our minds through analysis.

Can science and religion be reconciled?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 8, 2018:

There is nothing to reconcile. Science and religion are in different categories. It’s like asking if art can be reconciled with mathematics. Science deals in objective reality. It makes observations of nature and discovers mathematical equations that model those observations. Science is good at...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 9, 2018:

@Fibonacci1618 Thanks, I’ll check it out.

Religions: More harm then good?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 3, 2018:

The interchanging of the words “faith” and “religion” does not seem right to me because not all religious groups require faith or belief. Besides, there are large numbers of people who are not associated with any religious group but who practice their own private forms of religion. It is ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 9, 2018:

@HereticSin perhaps you are right, and someday science will provide some of those answers. No one knows the future, so such musings fall into the category of speculation or faith. Neuroscience can study nerve impulses until doomsday, but they’ll be no closer to understanding the nature of conscious awareness IMO. They might catalog some of the nuts and bolts, but as long as they are stuck in the materialist rut all their explanations will be superficial. On the other hand, cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman has an intriguing theory. Perhaps there’s hope.

Religions: More harm then good?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 3, 2018:

The interchanging of the words “faith” and “religion” does not seem right to me because not all religious groups require faith or belief. Besides, there are large numbers of people who are not associated with any religious group but who practice their own private forms of religion. It is ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 7, 2018:

@pnfullifidian “I would ask you to name several ‘mysteries’ that science does not address, and further ask that, if they truly are unknowable, of what use is it to make any claim or assertion regarding them?” In the introduction to his book titled “QED”, Richard Feynman discusses the limits of science. Feynman had worked out an elegant mathematical model that accurately predicts the probability of various paths followed by photons. It is a very intriguing and unexpected model, leading to questions about why things should be that way. Feynman warns against asking why. He says that no one knows why and will probably never know why. When students ask why, they are told to shut up and compute. There are various profoundly deep questions not addressed by science. Why does anything exist at all? What is the nature of deep conscious awareness and how does it arise. The enigma of personal identity: Why am I me? How can we have free will if we are only material bodies? How did life get started? In the final analysis, IMO nothing at all is truly understood except superficially. There are those who sit on their golden thrones of scientific knowledge, thinking that they understand just about everything there is to know and looking with condescension upon anyone who dares mention metaphysical ideas. Yet those people haven’t the slightest idea of who or what they are, or of the nature of their only vehicle for knowing, conscious awareness. They take for granted the very nature of existence itself: according to quantum gravity theory there are no “things”. Reality is not made out of matter. Time does not exist. Space is granular. It’s not a matter of making claims and assertions. Some churches do make unfounded claims and assertions, and I join with you in criticizing them, But their doing so does not invalidate or impugn metaphysical speculation in general, intuitive ideas, or deep awareness, appreciation, and gratitude for reality.

Religions: More harm then good?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 3, 2018:

The interchanging of the words “faith” and “religion” does not seem right to me because not all religious groups require faith or belief. Besides, there are large numbers of people who are not associated with any religious group but who practice their own private forms of religion. It is ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 6, 2018:

@pnfullifidian Great quote from your avatar. I like that very much. “Can we rationally expect religion to offer answers for which science remains ignorant? Must we resort to a gap-filling faith rather than simply say, we don't know, and neither does religion?” Of course not. Religion is not a set of beliefs or faith about nature, or ought not be. There are some very deep and profound mysteries about reality that are not even addressed by science, and are perhaps unknowable by the human mind. The role of religion IMO is to foster awareness, appreciation, and gratitude. To say that God did it is no answer at all. IMO it is perfectly legitimate to discuss and speculate about the possibility of a higher intelligence beyond our human realm. Discussion of the unknown is an integral part of science. How would science ever learn anything new if scientists only studied things that were already accepted and proven? Granted that some religious organizations have put forth a lot of false information, but that in no way invalidates the concept of a higher intelligence. That question is still open.

Those of us who favor critical thinking and arguments based on scientific evidence should avoid ...

wordywalt comments on Sep 4, 2018:

While I agree with the sentiment of your assertions. I disagree with a number of your assertions, themselves: 1. Religion was invented by common men and women to deal with their feelings of ignorance and powerlessness (see Feuerbach and Fromm). The priests simply took advantage from here. 2. ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 5, 2018:

How can you claim that Nazism and Communism did not perpetrate large amounts of violence? Please explain.

Those of us who favor critical thinking and arguments based on scientific evidence should avoid ...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 4, 2018:

I agree with all of this except that I’ve never heard anyone say that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao’s atrocities were motivated by religion. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. were atheists but I don’t think their main motivation was atheism. In general the atheist state concept has been an abysmal failure....

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 4, 2018:

@resserts I’m not sure if I agree. In those quotes, the physicists were speaking in general terms about their religious sentiments. They were not attempting to explain anything about nature, and certainly not by postulating some god or other. Well, maybe Planck was postulating universal consciousness as a matrix for all matter, but he must have had good reasons for that statement. He didn’t just throw up his hands and say, “God did it”. My opinion is that true religion has nothing to do with explaining reality. It is the realization that reality can not be explained except superficially. It is to be aware, appreciative, and grateful. It is a way of life. It is not something to be proven or disproven. I guess organized religion hasn’t gotten the word yet.

Those of us who favor critical thinking and arguments based on scientific evidence should avoid ...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 4, 2018:

I agree with all of this except that I’ve never heard anyone say that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao’s atrocities were motivated by religion. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. were atheists but I don’t think their main motivation was atheism. In general the atheist state concept has been an abysmal failure....

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 4, 2018:

@resserts Sorry but I just cannot resist making one more reply. Here are some opinions from some of those very top level scientists you referenced—the founders of modern physics: Werner Karl Heisenberg: "The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you." "The atoms or elementary particles themselves are not real; they form a world of potentialities or possibilities rather than one of things or facts." “In the history of science, ever since the famous trial of Galileo, it has repeatedly been claimed that scientific truth cannot be reconciled with the religious interpretation of the world. Although I am now convinced that scientific truth is unassailable in its own field, I have never found it possible to dismiss the content of religious thinking as simply part of an outmoded phase in the consciousness of mankind, a part we shall have to give up from now on. Thus in the course of my life I have repeatedly been compelled to ponder on the relationship of these two regions of thought, for I have never been able to doubt the reality of that to which they point.” Niels Bohr: "I myself find the division of the world into an objective and a subjective side much too arbitrary. The fact that religions through the ages have spoken in images, parables, and paradoxes means simply that there are no other ways of grasping the reality to which they refer. But that does not mean that it is not a genuine reality. And splitting this reality into an objective and a subjective side won't get us very far." Sir Arthur Eddington: "The universe is of the nature of a thought or sensation in a universal Mind... To put the conclusion crudely — the stuff of the world is mind-stuff." "We are no longer tempted to condemn the spiritual aspects of our nature as illusory because of their lack of concreteness." "The scientific answer is relevant so far as concerns the sense-impressions... For the rest the human spirit must turn to the unseen world to which it itself belongs." Max Planck: "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." I am openly and without shame appealing to authority.

Those of us who favor critical thinking and arguments based on scientific evidence should avoid ...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 4, 2018:

I agree with all of this except that I’ve never heard anyone say that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao’s atrocities were motivated by religion. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. were atheists but I don’t think their main motivation was atheism. In general the atheist state concept has been an abysmal failure....

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 4, 2018:

@resserts Thanks for your response. It’s been a stimulating interchange.

Those of us who favor critical thinking and arguments based on scientific evidence should avoid ...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 4, 2018:

I agree with all of this except that I’ve never heard anyone say that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao’s atrocities were motivated by religion. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. were atheists but I don’t think their main motivation was atheism. In general the atheist state concept has been an abysmal failure....

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 4, 2018:

@resserts You are correct. My so-called “appeal to authority” proves nothing about theology. I was not trying to prove anything about theology. What it proves is that having religious sentiments does not imply stupidity or cowardice as is often implied on this forum. But even if I had been trying to prove something about theology, there would be absolutely nothing wrong or illogical about appealing to authority. The opinion of experts is, in fact, evidence. Haven’t you heard of expert testimony in court? What about the global warming advocates who cite that 97% figure? Appeal to authority, no? Apparently appeal to authority is only allowed if you agree with the premises of the person doing the appealing.

Those of us who favor critical thinking and arguments based on scientific evidence should avoid ...

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 4, 2018:

I agree with all of this except that I’ve never heard anyone say that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao’s atrocities were motivated by religion. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. were atheists but I don’t think their main motivation was atheism. In general the atheist state concept has been an abysmal failure....

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 4, 2018:

@resserts I didn’t say one way or the other whether there is a God. I don’t know anything about that, or even if the question has meaning in human terms. IMO there’s no such thing as the supernatural. There’s just the aspect of nature that we can not perceive directly or understand in terms of our space/time/matter model of reality. That aspect is dazzling, overpowering, and staggering in its implications. All I’m saying is that there is evidence. Each person has to consider that evidence and decide if the evidence is persuasive or meaningful. Just because there is evidence doesn’t mean the issue is proven. If you want to say that the evidence is not sufficient or is not persuasive, then fine, but if you shout THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE, then to me that is the sign of a closed mind, one protecting a dogmatic world view.

Religions: More harm then good?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 3, 2018:

The interchanging of the words “faith” and “religion” does not seem right to me because not all religious groups require faith or belief. Besides, there are large numbers of people who are not associated with any religious group but who practice their own private forms of religion. It is ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 3, 2018:

@NoMagicCookie Maybe you are the one who has struck out. https://www.google.com/search?q=atheist+quakers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari You can advocate for certain concepts without requiring belief. Scientists do that all the time. I don’t have to redefine evidence, and I have not done so. In a court of law you have all sorts of evidence. There’s eyewitness testimony, expert opinion, circumstantial evidence, material evidence, etc. All those are evidence. In a laboratory most of those types could not be used, but they are still evidence. We are not in a laboratory.

Religions: More harm then good?

WilliamFleming comments on Sep 3, 2018:

The interchanging of the words “faith” and “religion” does not seem right to me because not all religious groups require faith or belief. Besides, there are large numbers of people who are not associated with any religious group but who practice their own private forms of religion. It is ...

WilliamFleming replies on Sep 3, 2018:

@NoMagicCookie So far as organized religions, Generally New Thought churches do not require belief, although they do set forth a God concept. I believe that the Quakers require no belief. Also, there is the Unitarian Church which requires no belief, and which is attended by many atheists. Buddhism is not about belief in God. I don’t know that they require anything except meditation. In the way of personal, private religious sentiment, there are many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” and who do not view their spirituality as a belief or faith. Einstein, for example, sometimes said that he was an atheist, yet we have this: “My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." Finally. You say that faith is belief without evidence, and I don’t agree with that. In almost every case there is at least some evidence. It might not be the testable evidence that you require, but it is evidence nevertheless. We all make decisions daily based on evidence that is not air-tight. What I am saying is that there are a lot of people who are critical thinkers, courageous and intelligent who follow a religious path.

I've seen the word "plausible" thrown around quite a bit here in regards to spiritual/religious ...

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 31, 2018:

If something is plausible it SEEMS reasonable or likely. What seems likely to some people might not seem so to others. There is at least some evidence for nearly every idea, and it is perfectly legitimate to discuss those ideas whether or not they are accepted by the scientific establishment. I ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

@HereticSin The way you are defining the word, it IS bullshit. There’s no such thing as the “supernatural” IMO. It’s not just sensory—it’s the fact that space, time, and matter as we experience them do not exist except in our imaginations.The stark facts by far out-woo the woo. I still think however that the word “spiritual” is a good one and that most people who describe themselves as spiritual are intelligent and perceptive. In the final analysis we are abjectly ignorant when it comes to the deep questions of life. As a person who lives in total awe and bewilderment I am not much interested in arguing over semantics.

I've seen the word "plausible" thrown around quite a bit here in regards to spiritual/religious ...

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 31, 2018:

If something is plausible it SEEMS reasonable or likely. What seems likely to some people might not seem so to others. There is at least some evidence for nearly every idea, and it is perfectly legitimate to discuss those ideas whether or not they are accepted by the scientific establishment. I ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

@HereticSin If you are looking at a map of Alaska, a higher realm would be Alaska itself. If I am watching a movie in a theater, a realm higher than the world of the movie would be the world outside the theater. Reality as we perceive it is just made up and is displayed in our minds as matter moving in space and time.There’s a higher reality beyond our senses that we can’t understand except a little bit with mathematical modeling. You can’t say much about a world that’s outside your perception, but you can marvel and wonder.

I've seen the word "plausible" thrown around quite a bit here in regards to spiritual/religious ...

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 31, 2018:

If something is plausible it SEEMS reasonable or likely. What seems likely to some people might not seem so to others. There is at least some evidence for nearly every idea, and it is perfectly legitimate to discuss those ideas whether or not they are accepted by the scientific establishment. I ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

@HereticSin No matter how you label it, The reality you see before you is only a crude and symbolic representation of a higher realm. According to quantum loop theory there is no such thing as time. Space is not smooth and continuous but rather granular in nature. Particles are not things, they are field fluctuations. It is precisely what spirituality oriented people are talking about—there is no difference. If the word “spirituality” disturbes you I’ll try to remember and say “quantum” in the future, however, time is an illusion so the meaning of “future” is uncertain.

PragerFU: Do We Have Free Will? - misterdeity [youtube.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I am put on alert when people assert that there is NO evidence for this or that idea. There is nearly always some evidence. That evidence might be slim and unconvincing, but it is evidence nevertheless. IMO it would be more accurate to say that the evidence is not conclusive. I’ll readily admit...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

@phxbillcee IMO there are many valuable ideas worth pondering and discussing that have not been proven or that are unprovable. There is nothing wrong with discussing unproven ideas, and in fact, such discussion is an integral part of science. When I was in elementary school plate tectonics was considered a far-out, fringe topic, but not today. If you don’t want to think about it, then don’t. If you are interested you might read about Donald Hoffman’s “Conscious Realism”.

I've seen the word "plausible" thrown around quite a bit here in regards to spiritual/religious ...

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 31, 2018:

If something is plausible it SEEMS reasonable or likely. What seems likely to some people might not seem so to others. There is at least some evidence for nearly every idea, and it is perfectly legitimate to discuss those ideas whether or not they are accepted by the scientific establishment. I ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

@HereticSin But what is a spiritual realm? Is it not the higher, truer reality that lies beyond the realm of our senses based on our artificial model of matter, space and time? Just about any modern physics book will confirm such a higher reality. For example, read “Reality is not What it Seems” by Rovelli. What evidence could you possibly have upon which to base your rejection?

PragerFU: Do We Have Free Will? - misterdeity [youtube.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I am put on alert when people assert that there is NO evidence for this or that idea. There is nearly always some evidence. That evidence might be slim and unconvincing, but it is evidence nevertheless. IMO it would be more accurate to say that the evidence is not conclusive. I’ll readily admit...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

@phxbillcee See my reply to RandyTerry. If our sense of self as a separate body is an illusion, then what the heck are we? We must be something because we experience awareness. Perhaps our true and higher essence is that awareness. The same awareness that is watching and managing your robotic body might be doing the same for mine. We might be considered extensions of that higher conscious awareness. It’s just an intuitive concept that can’t be proven, but some very astute people have entertained the idea, among them several of the founders of modern physics.

PragerFU: Do We Have Free Will? - misterdeity [youtube.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I am put on alert when people assert that there is NO evidence for this or that idea. There is nearly always some evidence. That evidence might be slim and unconvincing, but it is evidence nevertheless. IMO it would be more accurate to say that the evidence is not conclusive. I’ll readily admit...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

@RandyTerry I think you have to differentiate between bodily consciousness, which is a product of the brain, and deep conscious awareness—the experience of being aware of our existence. A computer/robot can be equipped with sensors, and have sentience, but it has no awareness. That which is aware is of a higher order IMO. I don’t see how a physical object such as s brain or computer could possibly produce conscious awareness. I don’t care how many neurons are firing or how many switches are being turned on and off, that is just mechanical. To me it seems impossible, and no one has ever explained how it might be done. We don’t even know what conscious awareness is, except it’s what we experience, and we certainly don’t understand how it is created, if that is even a meaningful concept.

How did religion affect you personally?

escapetypist comments on Aug 31, 2018:

I have always been an outsider but practiced the customs of Christmas. It was liberating to actually acknowledge that Christmas and all its forced gift giving was phony, stressful, and not at all fun. And when a good friend said that they wanted Christmas back, it was the key that released me from...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 31, 2018:

Ha, you aren’t offensive at all! I think most people think very few religious thoughts at Christmas. That’s because most of what we do during Christmas comes from old germanic customs that predate Christianity. It’s sort of like Tet.

PragerFU: Do We Have Free Will? - misterdeity [youtube.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I am put on alert when people assert that there is NO evidence for this or that idea. There is nearly always some evidence. That evidence might be slim and unconvincing, but it is evidence nevertheless. IMO it would be more accurate to say that the evidence is not conclusive. I’ll readily admit...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 30, 2018:

@RandyTerry The brain was involved, but the idea to respond did not originate with the brain IMO. I lean toward thinking that our bodies are unaware robots with no consciousness. Consciousness is a higher level thing, primary in nature. It’s not MY consciousness and YOUR consciousness. It’s just consciousness period, The sense of self as a separate body is an illusion IMO. The robotic body can function on its own for a long time basing its decisions on instinct, learned behavior or randomness, but it has no true free will. Consciousness has to nudge the body into some course of action, but body/brain/mind is then on its own. Consciousness watches and attends to its various robotic bodies, trains them, instructs them, but their internal processes are automatic.

PragerFU: Do We Have Free Will? - misterdeity [youtube.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I am put on alert when people assert that there is NO evidence for this or that idea. There is nearly always some evidence. That evidence might be slim and unconvincing, but it is evidence nevertheless. IMO it would be more accurate to say that the evidence is not conclusive. I’ll readily admit...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 30, 2018:

@phxbillcee, @RandyTerry I just chose to reply to you. I am exercising free will.

PragerFU: Do We Have Free Will? - misterdeity [youtube.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I am put on alert when people assert that there is NO evidence for this or that idea. There is nearly always some evidence. That evidence might be slim and unconvincing, but it is evidence nevertheless. IMO it would be more accurate to say that the evidence is not conclusive. I’ll readily admit...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 30, 2018:

@phxbillcee Thx, I’ll check it out.

PragerFU: Do We Have Free Will? - misterdeity [youtube.com]

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I am put on alert when people assert that there is NO evidence for this or that idea. There is nearly always some evidence. That evidence might be slim and unconvincing, but it is evidence nevertheless. IMO it would be more accurate to say that the evidence is not conclusive. I’ll readily admit...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 30, 2018:

@phxbillcee I agree. It is only in moments of contemplation that we are afforded the luxury of that impractical other stuff. I just read about Sam Harris on Wikipedia and I liked what I read very much. I plan to download some of his podcasts.

Spent part of my day visiting a Baha'i temple.

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 30, 2018:

I recently attended a Greek Orthodox fund raiser and I was favorably impressed with the people I met as well as with their cultural traditions as presented. I think religious proselytizing is most prominent among Protestant groups. I used to be very defensive about being confronted, but now I ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 30, 2018:

@KKGator I get your point. Not everybody is the same. I used to become very angry, and would seeth for hours after being approached by church people, but I was merely irritated by other salesmen.

The introspection illusion.

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 29, 2018:

I sometimes wonder if our bodies are not vast, extensive hierarchical systems. For convenience we think of ourselves as units. We think of ourselves as single things, but perhaps we are not all that unified. If we really are a hierarchical system, then it makes sense that our introspections would be...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 30, 2018:

@Matias It sounds like a good book. I’ll put it on my list.

If you left being a part of a religion...

WilliamFleming comments on Jun 4, 2018:

Back in ‘61 I attended a Baptist seminar with some folks from Auburn. As I sat there, it suddenly occurred to me that I didn’t believe anything that was being said. On the way back in the car, I openly expressed my opinion, The others were surprised, but offered no criticism or arguments. Other ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 28, 2018:

@DenoPenno Some of the teachings of Jesus have appeal to me. I very much enjoy Hindu scriptures, and I find value there. To each his own.

If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer | Isabella Tree | Opinion | The Guardian

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 27, 2018:

The article raises a good point. Most land is unsuitable for row-crops due to steepness, soil composition, poor drainage, or non-availability of water, but that land can be utilized for livestock. The world has to eat—we need to keep our options open. A middle way would be to just eat LESS ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 27, 2018:

@Qualia Do we really know what’s in the future? According to satellite measurements by NASA, the earth has been warming at the rate of 0.13 C per decade since 1979. That’s not much, and no one knows if that rate will continue. Extremely drastic actions based on fear are very apt to cause more damage than no actions at all IMO.

Once emotion is involved in cognition (and emotionless cognition is quite rare), our mental system ...

chalupacabre comments on Aug 27, 2018:

My sister-in-law has proudly stated that, when conflicted, she goes with her gut, over available facts. Meeting the woman and hearing her speak leaves no doubt.

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 27, 2018:

That “gut” is the subconscious mind communicating, and very often it is saying important things IMO. For most of my important life decisions I’ve HAD to rely on those gut feelings, because logical analyses were inadequate.

If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer | Isabella Tree | Opinion | The Guardian

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 27, 2018:

The article raises a good point. Most land is unsuitable for row-crops due to steepness, soil composition, poor drainage, or non-availability of water, but that land can be utilized for livestock. The world has to eat—we need to keep our options open. A middle way would be to just eat LESS ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 27, 2018:

@Qualia I’m not sure what that is but it sounds drastic. Not every place is overpopulated. Despite our current high population most people are living very well—better than at any time in history. I can see that there is an upper limit to the numbers that can be supported, but my plan is to let nature take care of the problem.

The Enlightenment and the origins of racism

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 18, 2018:

It’s an interesting article but I don’t see how grappling with history is going to help us in the present.

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 19, 2018:

@Matias I have always been uneasy with the constant trumpeting and glorification of western culture, said to be founded in logic by ancient Greek philosophers. There is a tendency to downplay or even disparage Eastern culture as lacking in rationality, but for me it is the Hindu philosophy of the Upanishads that truly grips.

What makes you choose the poitics you support?

LiterateHiker comments on Aug 15, 2018:

My values, education, reading and research make me a lifelong Democrat and environmentalist. At age 10 with my family, I watched President John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address. When he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country," those words hit me in ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 15, 2018:

@LiterateHiker JFK’s German was off. I’m not sure how the Germans would say it, but translated literally, JFK said, “I am a donut”. A berliner is some sort of pastry.

Atheist Business Owner in The Bible Belt

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 12, 2018:

I am not thoroughly convinced that there’s such a thing as a Bible Belt.

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 12, 2018:

@ghettophilosopher Under where it says”Belief in God among adults in the South” is a bar chart with blue bars, and under that is a tab for comparing regions. It says COMPARE: Belief in God by regions”. The other religious practices have similar tabs. I’m on my iPhone. I was sort of surprised also

Atheist Business Owner in The Bible Belt

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 12, 2018:

I am not thoroughly convinced that there’s such a thing as a Bible Belt.

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 12, 2018:

@ghettophilosopher Religion in the "Bible Belt" http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/region/south/ If you click on the above link you'll see a rating of various religious practices and values in the South. Under each table is a tab to click on and see how the various regions compare in religious practices. If you look you'll see that while the South is indeed more religious, the differences among the regions are not very great. There are certainly not enough differences to warrant labeling the South as the "bible belt". The South is a huge and diverse region, the most populous region, with every conceivable religion and religious opinion.

What is your favorite breakfast cereal?

WilliamFleming comments on Aug 12, 2018:

Freshly ground feed wheat from the farmer’s cooperative. It’s very tasty and costs next to nothing.

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 12, 2018:

@Spag84 That’s really what I eat, and all I’ve eaten for many years. I got tired of shelling out money for boxed cereal that would be gone in a few days. A bag of wheat might last me a couple of years and costs $8. What’s good enough for a cow is good enough for me.

How Women's ‘Health-Care Gaslighting’ Went Mainstream - The Atlantic

TheMiddleWay comments on Aug 11, 2018:

I think this has more to do with the medical profession than with gender. For one, the exact same thing that happened to Serena Williams happened to me: I was about to get sent home with some pain meds after very sharp excrutiating pain to my side. It was only after an MRI was requested that it ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 11, 2018:

@jorj Curious about your reply, I googled, thinking I’d find you wrong, but actually there seems to be some truth to what you are saying. This Atlantic article eg: https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96jun/cancer/kadar.htm Maybe women aren’t the victims some claim to be.

How Women's ‘Health-Care Gaslighting’ Went Mainstream - The Atlantic

TheMiddleWay comments on Aug 11, 2018:

I think this has more to do with the medical profession than with gender. For one, the exact same thing that happened to Serena Williams happened to me: I was about to get sent home with some pain meds after very sharp excrutiating pain to my side. It was only after an MRI was requested that it ...

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 11, 2018:

@TheMiddleWay According to this article lifetime healthcare spending for women is a third higher for women. Part of that is because women live longer on average. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361028/ As you say, that’s not the topic at hand. A neighbor recently was diagnosed with intestinal flu, and what he actually had was an intestinal blood clot. Healthcare is simply not an exact science.

Have you ever been devastated by a lie?

pixiedust comments on Aug 11, 2018:

I once puched someone for lying to me. Not because he lied, but because he thought I was stupid enough to believe the lie. That was the only time I ever struck someone not in self-defense :-(

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 11, 2018:

I think you’ve nailed it. It’s usually not so much the lie itself that hurts. The pain comes from what we tell ourselves about the situation. If we judge ourselves to be incompetent saps for being taken, then that causes us to feel badly. The truth is that it could happen to anyone.

Does anyone recycle?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 27, 2018:

I recycle paper by burning it. I recycle organics by composting. I cycle.

WilliamFleming replies on Aug 10, 2018:

@joeymf86 IMO paper is just a part of nature, no worse than fallen leaves. There would be no crime against nature in just throwing it on the ground to rot. The paper would blow all around and be unsightly though, so I elect to burn it in a barrel and dump the ashes on the ground. Nature takes over from there. IMO glass and metal came from the earth, and there is nothing wrong with burying them in a landfill. What bothers me is when people put organic material such as grass clippings in the garbage. Organic material buried is likely to contaminate the ground water with bacteria. I’m not sure about plastic. Ideally there should be facilities for recycling plastic, but many places lack those facilities, and it gets buried.

Behemoth, bully, thief: how the English language is taking over the planet | News | The Guardian

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 27, 2018:

I wonder why English speakers were able to spread themselves over such a large portion of the globe, and why were they able to thrive and succeed so well. Was it sheer luck or was there some sort of inherent strength lacking in others. Was it divine providence? Oh shoot! I didn’t mean to say ...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 27, 2018:

@tnorman1236 I’ll look for that. Thanks.

Anyone into podcasts?

antitheism comments on Jul 27, 2018:

I used to listen to most all of them but I've grown so tired of religion being injected into everything that I now find the anti-religion talk equally tiresome as the religion talk. Telling people they're fools for their beliefs is hypocritical since civil law guarantees people the right to believe ...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 27, 2018:

I’m with you 100% on that!

Does the bible unwittingly promote Atheism?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 26, 2018:

People are saying such things. I think that reading the Bible critically might relieve you of your childhood indoctrination, and if you had had a childish concept of God you might start saying that you were an atheist. However, reality is one huge mysterious enigma. As for me, my relationship to ...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 27, 2018:

@Flyingsaucesir I did that already, and I am forever reading laymen’s books on physics. Valuable as it is, science does not even address, much less answer the deep questions of reality. I’m very appreciative of science, and I do feel kinship with all living things. The glimmers of understanding afforded by science however are shallow, and beyond there is a very great and staggering unknown.

Is balance worthwhile?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 26, 2018:

Very intriguing post. This one is worth pondering. Maybe the dark was just misperception, untrue thoughts and wrong judgments. It never really existed.

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 26, 2018:

@JSchaper Maybe in our daily lives we have to think in dualistic terms for efficiency and survival. In that context the middle way makes sense—balance is a worthy goal. In our more enlightened moments we might see through the illusion. We can’t stay in that mode all the time however—we have to eat.

Science and Philosophy Offer More for Grief than Religion Bereavement is horrible, but religion is ...

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 26, 2018:

The scientific opinion often seems to be that we are nothing but our bodies, that conscious awareness is just the firing of neurons and that emotions are nothing but chemistry. The universe just sort of fell into existence on accident. There were some protein molecules lying around that accidentally...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 26, 2018:

@KKGator You were not born and you will not die. My opinion of course.

Critical Thinking Skills: What are They and How Do I Get Them? - Brights Bulletin, Thinker Academy

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 24, 2018:

No matter how much critical thinking is being done, at the end of the day people will still disagree. That might be because no one really knows the answer. We need to be careful about thinking that our opinions are the correct ones because WE are the ones who use critical thinking, while our ...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 26, 2018:

@RoadGoddess It’s not new age, it’s new thought, and there is a difference. I am not making any claims. All I said was that at this point I’m not very concerned about climate change. Your being a woman has nothing to do with anything. Women challenge me all the time. Sounds like you don’t like being challenged by a cheeky man. :-) It’ll always be the other side that isn’t thinking critically. From my perspective, my thinking will always be impeccable. Claiming to be a critical thinker adds nothing to a debate. Aside from all that, I am sorry to have run afoul of a fellow bicycle enthusiast. I rode from Anchorage to LaGrange GA when I was 65. I hope you are having a nice day.

Critical Thinking Skills: What are They and How Do I Get Them? - Brights Bulletin, Thinker Academy

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 24, 2018:

No matter how much critical thinking is being done, at the end of the day people will still disagree. That might be because no one really knows the answer. We need to be careful about thinking that our opinions are the correct ones because WE are the ones who use critical thinking, while our ...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 25, 2018:

@RoadGoddess There is nothing defamatory or shameful about any of those organizations with which Dr. Spencer is said to be associated. Note that your source got part of their information from Wikipedia. The information in Wikipedia is carefully referenced. And the Wikipedia article goes into much detail about the controversy surrounding Dr. Spencer’s views. Critical thinking requires that you read more than just articles that reinforce your personal opinions.

Is the universe amoral?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 23, 2018:

In the first place, good and bad are not opposites. Everything that exists or happens is “good”. Everything fits properly and happens for reasons. It is all correct and benevolent. The concept of “bad” is only a mistake in thinking. We assign the “bad” label to things we don’t like,...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 25, 2018:

@icolan it’s not a question of belief. I’m not anything—no kind of “ist” No one knows the answers to the deep questions about reality, and those questions might be unknowable. The idea of universal consciousness has appeal in several ways, and it’s something I like to think about, but I know it hasn’t been proven by science, and is perhaps unprovable. That doesn’t bother me at all—I am perfectly comfortable discussing it, and a lot of people are interested.

Is the universe amoral?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 23, 2018:

In the first place, good and bad are not opposites. Everything that exists or happens is “good”. Everything fits properly and happens for reasons. It is all correct and benevolent. The concept of “bad” is only a mistake in thinking. We assign the “bad” label to things we don’t like,...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 25, 2018:

@icolan I never said I was an atheist.

Is the universe amoral?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 23, 2018:

In the first place, good and bad are not opposites. Everything that exists or happens is “good”. Everything fits properly and happens for reasons. It is all correct and benevolent. The concept of “bad” is only a mistake in thinking. We assign the “bad” label to things we don’t like,...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 25, 2018:

@icolan If by evidence you mean repeatable experiments that lead to overwhelming proof for the theory of universal consciousness, then you are right—there is no evidence like that. There are other categories of evidence. The fact that we have conscious awareness and are communicating with each other is evidence. That we seem to exist individually is evidence. That anything at all exists is evidence. The results of quantum experiments present evidence. Experimentation in the paranormal, that is evidence. The opinions of people such as John Wheeler, Max Planck et al—that is evidence. Evidence does not have to be air-right and conclusive—it only need to be suggestive—to lead the mind in a certain direction. Compare with courtroom evidence. In court there is personal testimony from witnesses, there is expert opinion, there is circumstantial evidence, and there is physical evidence. In order to convict, all the combined evidence must be overwhelmingly persuasive. If there is acquittal it is not because there was no evidence at all, but because the evidence was insufficient. If you want to say that there is insufficient evidence to persuade you, then I’ll buy that. I am not 100% sure either. I do not see this as religion vs science. I don’t see religion as an explanation for anything, or as a body of knowledge. For me religion is a way of life featuring deep awareness, appreciation and gratitude for the staggering implications of the mysteries of reality. Religion is not something to be proven or disproven.

Is the universe amoral?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 23, 2018:

In the first place, good and bad are not opposites. Everything that exists or happens is “good”. Everything fits properly and happens for reasons. It is all correct and benevolent. The concept of “bad” is only a mistake in thinking. We assign the “bad” label to things we don’t like,...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 24, 2018:

@icolan My level of confidence in the theory of universal consciousness is about 95%. It seems to me that you didn’t read the articles. That third one is about nothing BUT evidence for universal consciousness, but you have to download the pdf. If you are hostile to the concept of universal consciousness, that is your right. If you want to discuss the idea in a meaningful way it would be better to offer insights into why you feel the way you do rather than to snipe about there being no evidence. There is evidence.

Critical Thinking Skills: What are They and How Do I Get Them? - Brights Bulletin, Thinker Academy

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 24, 2018:

No matter how much critical thinking is being done, at the end of the day people will still disagree. That might be because no one really knows the answer. We need to be careful about thinking that our opinions are the correct ones because WE are the ones who use critical thinking, while our ...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 24, 2018:

@RoadGoddess, @JackPedigo My opinion is that you can not determine climate trends for the entire globe from your local weather conditions. The system that Dr. Spencer developed for NASA, for measuring worldwide lower atmospheric temperature seems to me a good method. Since inception of the technique the earth’s temperature has risen at a rate of 0.13C/decade. That is not very much, and it is not certain if that rise will continue. Therefore I am not very concerned at this time.

Critical Thinking Skills: What are They and How Do I Get Them? - Brights Bulletin, Thinker Academy

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 24, 2018:

No matter how much critical thinking is being done, at the end of the day people will still disagree. That might be because no one really knows the answer. We need to be careful about thinking that our opinions are the correct ones because WE are the ones who use critical thinking, while our ...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 24, 2018:

@RoadGoddess Apparently I know more about Dr Spencer than you do. If you are googling just to find support for your own opinions it is easy to find whatever you want. I doubt if you’ll even look at this, but be advised that Dr. Spencer himself developed the NASA technology for measuring the earth’s temperature with satellites. He is a highly acclaimed scientist and it is not becoming to sling insults. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Spencer_(scientist) You didn’t even read what I wrote. I said that ALMOST everyone knows that temperatures have been rising and that humans are causing at least part of the rise. As far as I can determine, that is Dr. Spencer’s position and yours also. Where do you get condescension out of that? You are not making sense—it is you who need to do more research.

Is the universe amoral?

WilliamFleming comments on Jul 23, 2018:

In the first place, good and bad are not opposites. Everything that exists or happens is “good”. Everything fits properly and happens for reasons. It is all correct and benevolent. The concept of “bad” is only a mistake in thinking. We assign the “bad” label to things we don’t like,...

WilliamFleming replies on Jul 24, 2018:

@icolan First of all, I am not calling for belief in anything. You asked what evidence there is for universal consciousness, and I provided a number of links. I’m sure that if you search through those articles you’ll find that there is evidence. Evidence is just evidence, not proof. I have proven nothing, and I myself do not know for certain about universal consciousnesses. It is a subject that intrigues me and which makes sense to me in an intuitive way. It’s not evidence that needs to be falsifiable—it’s the theory itself. Evidence can consist of many things. How much credence you give that evidence determines your level of confidence in the theory. Even if no one can currently think of a way of testing the theory, some day they might. Those with keen scientific minds will continue pondering and discussing the theory, as is their right, whether or not the theory is disturbing to some people.