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It's not science OR religion.
t1nick comments on Jun 22, 2018:
With all due respect. I disagree. They are two very separate and distinct paradigms. In many ways diametrically opposed to one another. For a practicing believer to also be a practicing scientist, a compromise has to be reached. In doing so, in my opinion, you lesson the value of both ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
I suspect that most of those notable scientists were very rebellious toward the dogma of organized religion, which I agree is a separate paradigm, and would be hard or impossible to integrate with the spirit of science.
In my opinion there is a deeper and more meaningful kind of religion which might be described as awareness, awe, appreciation, gratitude, etc. The Christian emphasis on belief or faith is a deep flaw IMO, but in general I see religion as a human behavior pattern rather than a body of claimed knowledge. For myself, I have tried to throw out the chaff and keep the valuable kernels.
t1nick comments on Jun 22, 2018:
With all due respect. I disagree. They are two very separate and distinct paradigms. In many ways diametrically opposed to one another. For a practicing believer to also be a practicing scientist, a compromise has to be reached. In doing so, in my opinion, you lesson the value of both ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
I suspect that most of those notable scientists were very rebellious toward the dogma of organized religion, which I agree is a separate paradigm, and would be hard or impossible to integrate with the spirit of science.
In my opinion there is a deeper and more meaningful kind of religion which might be described as awareness, awe, appreciation, gratitude, etc. The Christian emphasis on belief or faith is a deep flaw IMO, but in general I see religion as a human behavior pattern rather than a body of claimed knowledge. For myself, I have tried to throw out the chaff and keep the valuable kernels.
The evolution of religion: Why belief systems are literally false and metaphorically true
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
“Belief systems” could include a lot more than just religion. There are philosophical systems and political belief systems for example. A devout Marxist would survive better under communism I would think.
As I see it, religion is more of a behavior pattern than a set of beliefs.
I’m ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@Gwendolyn2018 Interesting idea. Maybe organized religions really do serve a purpose in restraining selfish behavior that harms others. It is sad to think that a person would need the fear of hell in order to keep from doing criminal stuff. What kind of life would that be? There must be something better.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
“Belief systems” could include a lot more than just religion. There are philosophical systems and political belief systems for example. A devout Marxist would survive better under communism I would think.
As I see it, religion is more of a behavior pattern than a set of beliefs.
I’m ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@Gwendolyn2018 Interesting idea. Maybe organized religions really do serve a purpose in restraining selfish behavior that harms others. It is sad to think that a person would need the fear of hell in order to keep from doing criminal stuff. What kind of life would that be? There must be something better.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 It’s only because the sense of self as a separate, bodily being is an illusion. Collectively we are of great significance. The Implications of our conscious existence are absolutely staggering in their significance. That’s how I see it anyway. :-)
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 It’s only because the sense of self as a separate, bodily being is an illusion. Collectively we are of great significance. The Implications of our conscious existence are absolutely staggering in their significance. That’s how I see it anyway. :-)
What would you think if a religious person said they did not believe in magic ?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 22, 2018:
Einstein and a host of other creative geniuses described themselves as religious. Would it be ok for them not to believe in magic, or at least to assign a very low level of likelihood to certain magical events?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@pashaonenine Maybe, just maybe, some of those folks knew more about it than you or me. Metals are being transmuted right now through LENR, so maybe Newton was on to something.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 22, 2018:
Einstein and a host of other creative geniuses described themselves as religious. Would it be ok for them not to believe in magic, or at least to assign a very low level of likelihood to certain magical events?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@pashaonenine Maybe, just maybe, some of those folks knew more about it than you or me. Metals are being transmuted right now through LENR, so maybe Newton was on to something.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 If you did, from a cosmic perspective it would be of no significance. However, your family and friends would be devastated. Please don’t do it. :-(
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 If you did, from a cosmic perspective it would be of no significance. However, your family and friends would be devastated. Please don’t do it. :-(
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 All of those things are about competition among various life-forms or bodies, and competition is both necessary and desirable. Without a competitive environment no evolutionary progress would have ever been made. Check your birth contract and you’ll find no mention that life will be easy or fair or peaceful or abundant.
You left out such things as tsunamis, earthquakes, and strikes by asteroids.Supposedly if God exists she should prevent such things, aye? But not so fast. I lean heavily toward the idea of universal consciousness in which we all share. In this model human bodies are mere robots, unaware and expendable. Consciousness likes having a river of organisms with which to interact but the life of single organisms is of little concern. Even if some cataclysmic event wiped out all life it would be of little concern—life arises anew. A lapse of a trillion years would seem instantaneous from the perspective of consciousness itself.
No need to ask for proof since I don’t have one. It’s just an idea which resolves the issue.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 22, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 All of those things are about competition among various life-forms or bodies, and competition is both necessary and desirable. Without a competitive environment no evolutionary progress would have ever been made. Check your birth contract and you’ll find no mention that life will be easy or fair or peaceful or abundant.
You left out such things as tsunamis, earthquakes, and strikes by asteroids.Supposedly if God exists she should prevent such things, aye? But not so fast. I lean heavily toward the idea of universal consciousness in which we all share. In this model human bodies are mere robots, unaware and expendable. Consciousness likes having a river of organisms with which to interact but the life of single organisms is of little concern. Even if some cataclysmic event wiped out all life it would be of little concern—life arises anew. A lapse of a trillion years would seem instantaneous from the perspective of consciousness itself.
No need to ask for proof since I don’t have one. It’s just an idea which resolves the issue.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 What things are there about the universe that you have judged to be incorrect?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 21, 2018:
Evil is just stuff we don’t like. From a higher perspective, it might be that things are as they ought to be and as they must be.
Epicurus had a limited perspective, thinking of God in human terms.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 21, 2018:
@TheoryNumber3 What things are there about the universe that you have judged to be incorrect?
Language is important, at least it is to me.
BanjoTango comments on Jun 16, 2018:
With 85% of the Universe invisible to Humans, and a mere say 6,000 years of human education compared to the Billions of Years of planetary existence, - its a brave man who thinks that an understanding of "reality" is cut and dried.
Its only been 100 years since the realization that the whole of ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2018:
Great comment! Thank you sir.
BanjoTango comments on Jun 16, 2018:
With 85% of the Universe invisible to Humans, and a mere say 6,000 years of human education compared to the Billions of Years of planetary existence, - its a brave man who thinks that an understanding of "reality" is cut and dried.
Its only been 100 years since the realization that the whole of ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 16, 2018:
Great comment! Thank you sir.
To all the wonderful people of agnostic.
TheDarkNolanite comments on Jun 15, 2018:
Agreed 100%. You can say whatever you want about Christianity, and nobody cries "Christianophobia!" But whenever you say something about Islam, suddenly you're the most racist thing since Birth of a Nation. Ridiculous! Islam isn't a race. End of story. It breaks my heart to see people on this site ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 15, 2018:
Islam is not a race and that is yet another reason not to fear and hate those who practice it. If you stereotype one fourth of humanity you smear some very good people.
TheDarkNolanite comments on Jun 15, 2018:
Agreed 100%. You can say whatever you want about Christianity, and nobody cries "Christianophobia!" But whenever you say something about Islam, suddenly you're the most racist thing since Birth of a Nation. Ridiculous! Islam isn't a race. End of story. It breaks my heart to see people on this site ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 15, 2018:
Islam is not a race and that is yet another reason not to fear and hate those who practice it. If you stereotype one fourth of humanity you smear some very good people.
To all the wonderful people of agnostic.
TheDarkNolanite comments on Jun 15, 2018:
Agreed 100%. You can say whatever you want about Christianity, and nobody cries "Christianophobia!" But whenever you say something about Islam, suddenly you're the most racist thing since Birth of a Nation. Ridiculous! Islam isn't a race. End of story. It breaks my heart to see people on this site ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 15, 2018:
@CallMeDave Homophobia Involves fear and hatred of certain sexual behavior. Islamaphobia involves stereotyping. It is perfectly reasonable to fear and hate the Taliban, but there’s no need to impugn one fourth of the human race.
TheDarkNolanite comments on Jun 15, 2018:
Agreed 100%. You can say whatever you want about Christianity, and nobody cries "Christianophobia!" But whenever you say something about Islam, suddenly you're the most racist thing since Birth of a Nation. Ridiculous! Islam isn't a race. End of story. It breaks my heart to see people on this site ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 15, 2018:
@CallMeDave Homophobia Involves fear and hatred of certain sexual behavior. Islamaphobia involves stereotyping. It is perfectly reasonable to fear and hate the Taliban, but there’s no need to impugn one fourth of the human race.
I'm wondering about this Jesus thing, He was born and it was celebrated and they still celebrate it.
JackPedigo comments on Jun 13, 2018:
One basic fact that is often overlooked was that 33 was considered the life expectancy of the period. He would have been an old man when he was executed. Also, note that historians have changed the start times for history from BC (before Christ) and AD (Anno Domini) to BCE (before the common Era) ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2018:
If 33 was the life expectancy it was only because of childhood mortality. I don’t think a person of 33 would be considered old.
://revealedrome.com/2012/06/ancient-rome-daily-life-women-age/
JackPedigo comments on Jun 13, 2018:
One basic fact that is often overlooked was that 33 was considered the life expectancy of the period. He would have been an old man when he was executed. Also, note that historians have changed the start times for history from BC (before Christ) and AD (Anno Domini) to BCE (before the common Era) ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2018:
If 33 was the life expectancy it was only because of childhood mortality. I don’t think a person of 33 would be considered old.
://revealedrome.com/2012/06/ancient-rome-daily-life-women-age/
I'm wondering about this Jesus thing, He was born and it was celebrated and they still celebrate it.
ldheinz comments on Jun 13, 2018:
Jesus of Nazareth is a myth. There is ZERO contemporaneous evidence that he ever existed. Everything about him was written decades later by people who never met him. Nazareth didn't even exist until the late 3rd century.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2018:
The crucifixion is well documented in Jewish and Roman literature, so your assertion that there is ZERO evidence is incorrect .
Wikipedia has a thorough article on the subject.
Why does it matter? Myths are often built up around people who actually lived. Anyway, many of Jesus’s teachings, as reported, seem very admirable to me. He is reported to have said that he should not be called master, but brother—also that whatever he did, anyone can do.
Not so admirable was his belief in hell. Also the stealing of a donkey upon which to ride into Jerusalem so that prophecy would be fulfilled—hmm...not so admirable.
ldheinz comments on Jun 13, 2018:
Jesus of Nazareth is a myth. There is ZERO contemporaneous evidence that he ever existed. Everything about him was written decades later by people who never met him. Nazareth didn't even exist until the late 3rd century.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2018:
The crucifixion is well documented in Jewish and Roman literature, so your assertion that there is ZERO evidence is incorrect .
Wikipedia has a thorough article on the subject.
Why does it matter? Myths are often built up around people who actually lived. Anyway, many of Jesus’s teachings, as reported, seem very admirable to me. He is reported to have said that he should not be called master, but brother—also that whatever he did, anyone can do.
Not so admirable was his belief in hell. Also the stealing of a donkey upon which to ride into Jerusalem so that prophecy would be fulfilled—hmm...not so admirable.
Are there any other theories aside from the mainstream big bang theory that you think is a likely ...
LenHazell53 comments on Jun 13, 2018:
I'm something of a fan of version of the anthropic principle based upon the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and Niels Bohr, conception that physical existence is reliant on measurement and observation, therefore physical existence and consciousness are reliant on each other.
That which is ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2018:
Well said! I lean toward thinking that conscious awareness is primary in reality.
LenHazell53 comments on Jun 13, 2018:
I'm something of a fan of version of the anthropic principle based upon the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and Niels Bohr, conception that physical existence is reliant on measurement and observation, therefore physical existence and consciousness are reliant on each other.
That which is ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 13, 2018:
Well said! I lean toward thinking that conscious awareness is primary in reality.
Is religious eradication a step in the right direction?
dare2dream comments on Jun 12, 2018:
Faith is believing in something without evidence or in spite of evidence to the contrary. Faith is what children use to believe Santa Claus exists. Should adults use this same method to believe anything? I don't think so!
Religion is different than faith. People use faith to believe their ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 12, 2018:
Who are the “we” who are going to do the replacing? Each person has to decide privately, and that decision is no one else’s business.
dare2dream comments on Jun 12, 2018:
Faith is believing in something without evidence or in spite of evidence to the contrary. Faith is what children use to believe Santa Claus exists. Should adults use this same method to believe anything? I don't think so!
Religion is different than faith. People use faith to believe their ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 12, 2018:
Who are the “we” who are going to do the replacing? Each person has to decide privately, and that decision is no one else’s business.
Conservatives Vote Their Fears
Liberals Vote Their Hopes
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 11, 2018:
Over-generalization based on stereotyping. I’ve heard often that conservatives tend to be optimistic while liberals see the world in a negative way. I believe that to be true. Liberals think everything needs fixing.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 12, 2018:
@MichaelSpinler IMO it is condescending and disrespectful as well as destructive to walk around pretending to be a great savior of “the poor”. A person can have empathy and still not think that the government should be a mother figure to all.
A deeply aware person sees beauty everywhere. Others see only ugliness.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 11, 2018:
Over-generalization based on stereotyping. I’ve heard often that conservatives tend to be optimistic while liberals see the world in a negative way. I believe that to be true. Liberals think everything needs fixing.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 12, 2018:
@MichaelSpinler IMO it is condescending and disrespectful as well as destructive to walk around pretending to be a great savior of “the poor”. A person can have empathy and still not think that the government should be a mother figure to all.
A deeply aware person sees beauty everywhere. Others see only ugliness.
“All” I know about physics I learned from 2 sources: The book A Brief History of Time and the TV...
TheAstroChuck comments on Jun 11, 2018:
The Big Bang is a singularity, analogous to dividing any number by 0 (zero). From Einstein's relativity, time is a fourth dimension every bit as integral to the universe as the 3-spatial dimensions. Consequently, time came into existence at the point of the Big Bang. Time did not exist prior to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 11, 2018:
@COGITOERGOSUM Some things we will never understand, but it might help to start thinking in a different way. IMO reality as we perceive it is an illusion. Space, time, and matter are part of that illusion. The only thing we truly experience is awareness. If our perceptions lead to contradictions and paradoxes, then something is wrong with our perceptions and with our worldview.
There are various new ideas on the subject. The theory I like best is the Conscious Realism of Donald Hoffman. Another is set forth in “Biocentrism”, written by Robert Lanza.
These are fascinating ideas, but IMO, in an ultimate sense, we are just about totally ignorant, and the most honest response is bewilderment.
TheAstroChuck comments on Jun 11, 2018:
The Big Bang is a singularity, analogous to dividing any number by 0 (zero). From Einstein's relativity, time is a fourth dimension every bit as integral to the universe as the 3-spatial dimensions. Consequently, time came into existence at the point of the Big Bang. Time did not exist prior to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 11, 2018:
@COGITOERGOSUM Some things we will never understand, but it might help to start thinking in a different way. IMO reality as we perceive it is an illusion. Space, time, and matter are part of that illusion. The only thing we truly experience is awareness. If our perceptions lead to contradictions and paradoxes, then something is wrong with our perceptions and with our worldview.
There are various new ideas on the subject. The theory I like best is the Conscious Realism of Donald Hoffman. Another is set forth in “Biocentrism”, written by Robert Lanza.
These are fascinating ideas, but IMO, in an ultimate sense, we are just about totally ignorant, and the most honest response is bewilderment.
Sometimes I think about how much harm religion has done to scientific or just moral progress for the...
Lifestone comments on Jun 11, 2018:
I understand where you're coming from, I really do. Unfortunately Nothing in life is that simple. Wild the religious have been a gigantic stumbling block to human development certain points in history they have also contributed to it. The greatest bars intellectual Utopia ism in the modern era is ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 11, 2018:
Good point. The communist countries have been non-religious and none of them have been utopias.
Lifestone comments on Jun 11, 2018:
I understand where you're coming from, I really do. Unfortunately Nothing in life is that simple. Wild the religious have been a gigantic stumbling block to human development certain points in history they have also contributed to it. The greatest bars intellectual Utopia ism in the modern era is ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 11, 2018:
Good point. The communist countries have been non-religious and none of them have been utopias.
The Tipping Point When Minority Views Take Over - The Atlantic
Ellatynemouth comments on Jun 10, 2018:
Just the title sounds like more Atlantic right wing propaganda.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 10, 2018:
Hmm...I’ve never heard The Atlantic called right wing. It’s just the opposite IMO.
Ellatynemouth comments on Jun 10, 2018:
Just the title sounds like more Atlantic right wing propaganda.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 10, 2018:
Hmm...I’ve never heard The Atlantic called right wing. It’s just the opposite IMO.
Who else starts their day with a crossword puzzle to blow the cobwebs out of their mind over a cup ...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2018:
I used to do the daily NYT crossword on my iPhone, but it started costing too much so I switched to paper and pencil version. Great fun!
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 10, 2018:
@Geoffrey51 Yes, some of those puzzles just can’t be done by the likes of me, a person with no TV and little sports knowledge. Sometimes I can sleep on them and they’ll come together.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2018:
I used to do the daily NYT crossword on my iPhone, but it started costing too much so I switched to paper and pencil version. Great fun!
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 10, 2018:
@Geoffrey51 Yes, some of those puzzles just can’t be done by the likes of me, a person with no TV and little sports knowledge. Sometimes I can sleep on them and they’ll come together.
Death is only real because we believe in it's inevitability.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2018:
Individual bodies come and go. Our common spirit lives forever. “You were not born and you will not die.” Bhagavad Gita
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 10, 2018:
@Simon1 I don’t know. I don’t know if it has a power source. Even if it did, what would be the power source of the power source. I don’t know if the question is applicable.
Besides Hindu scriptures, you have Max Planck talking about Universal Awareness. More recently we have Donald Hoffman with Conscious Awareness. They make it sound reasonable, at least to me.
If nothing else, you could take “common spirit” to be life in general.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 9, 2018:
Individual bodies come and go. Our common spirit lives forever. “You were not born and you will not die.” Bhagavad Gita
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 10, 2018:
@Simon1 I don’t know. I don’t know if it has a power source. Even if it did, what would be the power source of the power source. I don’t know if the question is applicable.
Besides Hindu scriptures, you have Max Planck talking about Universal Awareness. More recently we have Donald Hoffman with Conscious Awareness. They make it sound reasonable, at least to me.
If nothing else, you could take “common spirit” to be life in general.
Whilst my heart goes out to anyone who suffers so intensely as to feel there is no other option but ...
Storybook comments on Jun 9, 2018:
I have never heard of this chef, I’m from England and rarely watch TV.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2018:
I heard that television in the UK is a cut above our deplorable fare. I have no TV and plan never to have one.
Storybook comments on Jun 9, 2018:
I have never heard of this chef, I’m from England and rarely watch TV.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2018:
I heard that television in the UK is a cut above our deplorable fare. I have no TV and plan never to have one.
When raising children is it OK to let them go with a friend to a Bible camp?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 8, 2018:
It’s all about indoctrination: prayers, preaching, bible reading, etc.
I’d look for something else if it were my kids.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2018:
@OroLee Thanks for that link. I didn’t know such a thing existed. And there’s one right over there in Mississippi.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 8, 2018:
It’s all about indoctrination: prayers, preaching, bible reading, etc.
I’d look for something else if it were my kids.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 9, 2018:
@OroLee Thanks for that link. I didn’t know such a thing existed. And there’s one right over there in Mississippi.
What About Mandatory Mental Health Classes in Schools?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 8, 2018:
I’m for it if the students learn about the horrific side effects of psychotropic drugs.
Also, the students should study in detail “Help Yourself to Happiness” by Maxie Maultsby Jr., or similar literature.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
@Kimberclimbs, @buzz13 You are probably right. In some cases drugs might be necessary. Hopefully their use would be minimal and temporary. I’m not an expert on that subject, but I do have some experience. I recently read “Rethinking Maddness” and other books on the subject. I think a rebellion is brewing against routine dosing of people.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 8, 2018:
I’m for it if the students learn about the horrific side effects of psychotropic drugs.
Also, the students should study in detail “Help Yourself to Happiness” by Maxie Maultsby Jr., or similar literature.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
@Kimberclimbs, @buzz13 You are probably right. In some cases drugs might be necessary. Hopefully their use would be minimal and temporary. I’m not an expert on that subject, but I do have some experience. I recently read “Rethinking Maddness” and other books on the subject. I think a rebellion is brewing against routine dosing of people.
What About Mandatory Mental Health Classes in Schools?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 8, 2018:
I’m for it if the students learn about the horrific side effects of psychotropic drugs.
Also, the students should study in detail “Help Yourself to Happiness” by Maxie Maultsby Jr., or similar literature.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
@Kimberclimbs As far as I know, LSD is not a psychotropic drug. I’m talking about the legal drugs prescribed by psychiatrists.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 8, 2018:
I’m for it if the students learn about the horrific side effects of psychotropic drugs.
Also, the students should study in detail “Help Yourself to Happiness” by Maxie Maultsby Jr., or similar literature.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
@Kimberclimbs As far as I know, LSD is not a psychotropic drug. I’m talking about the legal drugs prescribed by psychiatrists.
Discussion with my 10 year-old at dinner:
K- Mom, do you think praying over dinner evolved because ...
Lavergne comments on Jun 8, 2018:
I think praying over dinner evolved because food was frequently scarce.....if you've gone hungry long enough, you'll be thankful for pretty much anything that hits your plate. ;) Having said that, I'm sure there was a lot of "accidental" poisonings due to food spoilage back then - so your ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
Interesting. Now with modern agricultural methods we have the opposite problem. I was asked to say grace last Thanksgiving, and I prayed for will power not to overeat.
Lavergne comments on Jun 8, 2018:
I think praying over dinner evolved because food was frequently scarce.....if you've gone hungry long enough, you'll be thankful for pretty much anything that hits your plate. ;) Having said that, I'm sure there was a lot of "accidental" poisonings due to food spoilage back then - so your ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
Interesting. Now with modern agricultural methods we have the opposite problem. I was asked to say grace last Thanksgiving, and I prayed for will power not to overeat.
Religion is the waste deposited by human philosophy.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
True religion is the highest and greatest human experience, and is the basis of all human creativity. You are talking only about the defiled gibberish of organized religions. But even churches offer some benefits to their adherents, else there’d be no churches.
A degree of anger might be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
@Falsifiable1 “True religion”, as I use it, is an individual experience. It is not based on a set of prescribed beliefs, but consists of joyful awareness and appreciation for the staggering implications of existence.with all its mystery and grandeur. It is a kind of orientation or attitude toward reality—what you would experience if your consciousness had suddenly awakened to the world and you had no idea what it all meant.
I think that many of those imposing religious organizations that have strict irrational dogmas might have started out as the true religious sentiment of a leader, but gradually became mired in rote ceremonies and ridiculous beliefs as ego-ridden organizers flocked in and used fear and guilt to gain power. That type of person has little idea of the meaning of true religion. Yet, hidden beneath a load of garbage, there often remains a few gems. Aldous Huxley compiled a list of those gems in “The Perennial Philosophy”.
Maybe I am stretching things to call that religion—Einstein and I call it religion. As you say, language is messy.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
True religion is the highest and greatest human experience, and is the basis of all human creativity. You are talking only about the defiled gibberish of organized religions. But even churches offer some benefits to their adherents, else there’d be no churches.
A degree of anger might be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 8, 2018:
@Falsifiable1 “True religion”, as I use it, is an individual experience. It is not based on a set of prescribed beliefs, but consists of joyful awareness and appreciation for the staggering implications of existence.with all its mystery and grandeur. It is a kind of orientation or attitude toward reality—what you would experience if your consciousness had suddenly awakened to the world and you had no idea what it all meant.
I think that many of those imposing religious organizations that have strict irrational dogmas might have started out as the true religious sentiment of a leader, but gradually became mired in rote ceremonies and ridiculous beliefs as ego-ridden organizers flocked in and used fear and guilt to gain power. That type of person has little idea of the meaning of true religion. Yet, hidden beneath a load of garbage, there often remains a few gems. Aldous Huxley compiled a list of those gems in “The Perennial Philosophy”.
Maybe I am stretching things to call that religion—Einstein and I call it religion. As you say, language is messy.
I just read an article about the recent school shooting in Texas in a magazine called The Week.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
Obsession with violent video games might well be a precursor to mass murder, but I’m not sure if anything can be done about it—after all, the media is rife with violence. Even some of Shakespear’s plays are extremely violent. Primates tend toward violence.
What is not mentioned is the role ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@memorylikeasieve You might be right, however, I am not the only one making that connection. Many qualified professionals are saying it:
https://www.google.com/search?q=school+shootings+and+psychotropic+drugs&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari
You’d think the subject would at least warrant a thorough scientific study. They could compare the behavior of those on psychiatric drugs with the behavior of those with the same condition who were given only talk therapy. I am far from being an expert here, but I’ve seen the problem up close, and it disturbs me.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
Obsession with violent video games might well be a precursor to mass murder, but I’m not sure if anything can be done about it—after all, the media is rife with violence. Even some of Shakespear’s plays are extremely violent. Primates tend toward violence.
What is not mentioned is the role ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@memorylikeasieve You might be right, however, I am not the only one making that connection. Many qualified professionals are saying it:
https://www.google.com/search?q=school+shootings+and+psychotropic+drugs&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us=safari
You’d think the subject would at least warrant a thorough scientific study. They could compare the behavior of those on psychiatric drugs with the behavior of those with the same condition who were given only talk therapy. I am far from being an expert here, but I’ve seen the problem up close, and it disturbs me.
So desperately are many believers clinging to their comforting delusions (despite those persistently...
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
It is nothing but myth that you can’t prove a negative. Every assertion can be couched in negative terms. Google it.
God can not be defined, and if is silly to even talk about a proof one way or the other. Proof simply has no meaning at that level of awareness.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@DaveSchumacher Here is one of many websites that explains it all:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/believing-bull/201109/you-can-prove-negative%3famp
“You can’t prove a negative” is itself a negative assertion. Probably what you mean is that you can’t prove something exists. That is only true part of the time. Some things can be proven to exist.
I agree though that is is absurd to demand a proof that there is no God. There are various concepts of God, but in the end, God can not be defined. I suspect that our concept of proof simply has no application. God is a subject way over our heads and no one understands what they are talking about when they speak of God.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
It is nothing but myth that you can’t prove a negative. Every assertion can be couched in negative terms. Google it.
God can not be defined, and if is silly to even talk about a proof one way or the other. Proof simply has no meaning at that level of awareness.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@DaveSchumacher Here is one of many websites that explains it all:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/believing-bull/201109/you-can-prove-negative%3famp
“You can’t prove a negative” is itself a negative assertion. Probably what you mean is that you can’t prove something exists. That is only true part of the time. Some things can be proven to exist.
I agree though that is is absurd to demand a proof that there is no God. There are various concepts of God, but in the end, God can not be defined. I suspect that our concept of proof simply has no application. God is a subject way over our heads and no one understands what they are talking about when they speak of God.
Another post made me think of this.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
It has generally been men’s role to perform the most dangerous jobs: to hunt, fight wars, erect buildings, etc. The reason is that women are biologically more valuable and can not be risked.
The playing field has already been leveled by nature, and in fact has been tilted in favor of women ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@Xena Go ahead and take as much power as you like. Just do it in the democratic way. Our Governor, Kay Ivy was just re-elected. She is a great leader and an asset to Alabama. She was re-elected because she appeals to both men and women of all races. I doubt if a strident, power-hungry egotistic feminist will ever get elected however.
In addition to all those negative things about men, please consider all the great advances in human society that were brought about through male energy, ingenuity, and sacrifice. I realize that women have been instrumental also in those advances, but IMO the greatest good comes when men and women work together as teams. If the two sides hate each other, think what that means: depression, unhappiness, loneliness, ill health, early death, no babies, etc.,etc.
I vote for mutual respect and love.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
It has generally been men’s role to perform the most dangerous jobs: to hunt, fight wars, erect buildings, etc. The reason is that women are biologically more valuable and can not be risked.
The playing field has already been leveled by nature, and in fact has been tilted in favor of women ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@Xena Go ahead and take as much power as you like. Just do it in the democratic way. Our Governor, Kay Ivy was just re-elected. She is a great leader and an asset to Alabama. She was re-elected because she appeals to both men and women of all races. I doubt if a strident, power-hungry egotistic feminist will ever get elected however.
In addition to all those negative things about men, please consider all the great advances in human society that were brought about through male energy, ingenuity, and sacrifice. I realize that women have been instrumental also in those advances, but IMO the greatest good comes when men and women work together as teams. If the two sides hate each other, think what that means: depression, unhappiness, loneliness, ill health, early death, no babies, etc.,etc.
I vote for mutual respect and love.
Religion is the waste deposited by human philosophy.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
True religion is the highest and greatest human experience, and is the basis of all human creativity. You are talking only about the defiled gibberish of organized religions. But even churches offer some benefits to their adherents, else there’d be no churches.
A degree of anger might be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@Falsifiable1, @TiberiusGracchus See my reply to Falsifiable.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
True religion is the highest and greatest human experience, and is the basis of all human creativity. You are talking only about the defiled gibberish of organized religions. But even churches offer some benefits to their adherents, else there’d be no churches.
A degree of anger might be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@Falsifiable1, @TiberiusGracchus See my reply to Falsifiable.
Religion is the waste deposited by human philosophy.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
True religion is the highest and greatest human experience, and is the basis of all human creativity. You are talking only about the defiled gibberish of organized religions. But even churches offer some benefits to their adherents, else there’d be no churches.
A degree of anger might be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@Falsifiable1 There is no fallacy. It is perfectly logical to divide a set into subsets. If I said that true tea is made from tea leaves, I would be correct. It is true that tea can be made from something else, say rose hips, but that would be tea in name only. It would be better to call that herbal tea. You might look in your dictionary and see herbal tea listed under “tea”, and in that case we could engage in a useless infantile argument over semantics.
If I said that all true Scotsmen have red hair, that would be a fallacy, similar to the one you are committing here. You are asserting (in a crude and offensive way) that no religion has value. To prove you wrong I need only present one religion that has value. I present three: Unitarianism. The Society of Friends, and Unity. None of these has ever promoted anything but peace, love, and harmony. None requires belief.
You want me to prove that religion is the highest and greatest of human experience. I doubt if anything I said would persuade you, but you could read the words of physicists on the subject of religion. You might follow the website closertotruth.com. A great variety of arguments and opinions are presented there from all perspectives.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 7, 2018:
True religion is the highest and greatest human experience, and is the basis of all human creativity. You are talking only about the defiled gibberish of organized religions. But even churches offer some benefits to their adherents, else there’d be no churches.
A degree of anger might be ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 7, 2018:
@Falsifiable1 There is no fallacy. It is perfectly logical to divide a set into subsets. If I said that true tea is made from tea leaves, I would be correct. It is true that tea can be made from something else, say rose hips, but that would be tea in name only. It would be better to call that herbal tea. You might look in your dictionary and see herbal tea listed under “tea”, and in that case we could engage in a useless infantile argument over semantics.
If I said that all true Scotsmen have red hair, that would be a fallacy, similar to the one you are committing here. You are asserting (in a crude and offensive way) that no religion has value. To prove you wrong I need only present one religion that has value. I present three: Unitarianism. The Society of Friends, and Unity. None of these has ever promoted anything but peace, love, and harmony. None requires belief.
You want me to prove that religion is the highest and greatest of human experience. I doubt if anything I said would persuade you, but you could read the words of physicists on the subject of religion. You might follow the website closertotruth.com. A great variety of arguments and opinions are presented there from all perspectives.
Columbia and Yale scientists just found the spiritual part of our brains — Quartz
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 6, 2018:
Does this mean that if I experience deep awareness and appreciation for the mysteries of existence it is only the firing of neurons, and that my experience is invalid? If certain neurons fire while I am looking at a work of art, does that prove there’s no such thing as art. If certain neurons fire...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@tnorman1236 Good Point. I like your analogy with money. Maybe the firing of neurons is symbolic.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 6, 2018:
Does this mean that if I experience deep awareness and appreciation for the mysteries of existence it is only the firing of neurons, and that my experience is invalid? If certain neurons fire while I am looking at a work of art, does that prove there’s no such thing as art. If certain neurons fire...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@tnorman1236 Good Point. I like your analogy with money. Maybe the firing of neurons is symbolic.
FIFA World Cup
Is the interest in this confined to this side of the Atlantic?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 5, 2018:
What is FIFA?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@Tedoi I don’t have TV and don’t plan to ever have it.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 5, 2018:
What is FIFA?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@Tedoi I don’t have TV and don’t plan to ever have it.
I know a lot of good kind theists.
SimonCyrene comments on Jun 6, 2018:
Band-aid yes, the rest not so much. Religion teaches people to hate those who are different from you. Religious belief stems mostly from a fear of death or 'the end'.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
I was brought up in a Baptist church, and never once was I taught to hate anyone.
SimonCyrene comments on Jun 6, 2018:
Band-aid yes, the rest not so much. Religion teaches people to hate those who are different from you. Religious belief stems mostly from a fear of death or 'the end'.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
I was brought up in a Baptist church, and never once was I taught to hate anyone.
FIFA World Cup
Is the interest in this confined to this side of the Atlantic?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 5, 2018:
What is FIFA?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@Tedoi Thanks. I played a little bit of informal soccer in the army. It’s the only sport I liked and was ever good at. I hope that the playing of soccer continues to increase in this country.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 5, 2018:
What is FIFA?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@Tedoi Thanks. I played a little bit of informal soccer in the army. It’s the only sport I liked and was ever good at. I hope that the playing of soccer continues to increase in this country.
When to tell children we don’t all believe in God
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 5, 2018:
If they broached the subject I’d give my opinion straight out. The heck with the parents. Children are not fragile.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@MarvelAnn I do not advocate trying to indoctrinate anyone’s children. All I’m saying is that I would give my personal opinion on the matter the same as if I were talking to adults. After all, the children expressed their opinion. I do not believe in sensitive subjects that should not be broached to children. The parents do not own those children. They will be hearing all manner of things as they advance through school.
BTW, in that I am not atheist or agnostic, my opinion would include some concept of a universal consciousness.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 5, 2018:
If they broached the subject I’d give my opinion straight out. The heck with the parents. Children are not fragile.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 6, 2018:
@MarvelAnn I do not advocate trying to indoctrinate anyone’s children. All I’m saying is that I would give my personal opinion on the matter the same as if I were talking to adults. After all, the children expressed their opinion. I do not believe in sensitive subjects that should not be broached to children. The parents do not own those children. They will be hearing all manner of things as they advance through school.
BTW, in that I am not atheist or agnostic, my opinion would include some concept of a universal consciousness.
'Science without religion is lame.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@Aralt Yes, you are probably right. I seem to remember something like that from his credo. I don’t call myself agnostic, but if that means you don’t know for sure, then perhaps I am agnostic. After all, I don’t believe in a judgmental overseer God who deals out rewards and punishments either.
I lean toward the idea of universal consciousness in which we share.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@Aralt Yes, you are probably right. I seem to remember something like that from his credo. I don’t call myself agnostic, but if that means you don’t know for sure, then perhaps I am agnostic. After all, I don’t believe in a judgmental overseer God who deals out rewards and punishments either.
I lean toward the idea of universal consciousness in which we share.
'Science without religion is lame.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I have posted some of his quotes, but I know that he was not infallible. However, nearly all of the founders of modern physics were deeply religious in a certain way. What I conclude is that it’s not necessarily a dumb, ridiculous thing to be a non-atheist.
51% of scientists believe in God,
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@Petter if I said it wrong, sorry. Still a good many scientists are theists. There’s no shame or stupidity in leaning toward belief in a higher power.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I have posted some of his quotes, but I know that he was not infallible. However, nearly all of the founders of modern physics were deeply religious in a certain way. What I conclude is that it’s not necessarily a dumb, ridiculous thing to be a non-atheist.
51% of scientists believe in God,
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@Petter if I said it wrong, sorry. Still a good many scientists are theists. There’s no shame or stupidity in leaning toward belief in a higher power.
'Science without religion is lame.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@TheAstroChuck, @atheist, @Aralt, @zblaze I doubt he meant that in a churchy or new age sense. However, it must have meant something to him. I wonder if Einstein’s view changed over the years. There’s a lot of contradiction.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@TheAstroChuck, @atheist, @Aralt, @zblaze I doubt he meant that in a churchy or new age sense. However, it must have meant something to him. I wonder if Einstein’s view changed over the years. There’s a lot of contradiction.
'Science without religion is lame.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@TheAstroChuck, @atheist, @Aralt He made a lot of conflicting remarks about religion. I read a remark where he was very critical of some atheists—the zealous ones. One little book I read years ago was his “Credo”. I’m going to try and find that because it should clear things up. Regardless of what that guy thought, it is up to each person to decide.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@TheAstroChuck, @atheist, @Aralt He made a lot of conflicting remarks about religion. I read a remark where he was very critical of some atheists—the zealous ones. One little book I read years ago was his “Credo”. I’m going to try and find that because it should clear things up. Regardless of what that guy thought, it is up to each person to decide.
'Science without religion is lame.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@TheAstroChuck, @atheist You don’t have to, but that’s what Einstein called it.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 5, 2018:
@TheAstroChuck, @atheist You don’t have to, but that’s what Einstein called it.
What’s are some of your Pavlovian responses?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 4, 2018:
It’s greatly abated at this point, but in high school I could hardly stand up without being embarrassed by an erection.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@Theskeptic I’m a has-been :-(
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 4, 2018:
It’s greatly abated at this point, but in high school I could hardly stand up without being embarrassed by an erection.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@Theskeptic I’m a has-been :-(
'Science without religion is lame.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I have posted some of his quotes, but I know that he was not infallible. However, nearly all of the founders of modern physics were deeply religious in a certain way. What I conclude is that it’s not necessarily a dumb, ridiculous thing to be a non-atheist.
51% of scientists believe in God,
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@Petter Some refused to answer or were undecided.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I have posted some of his quotes, but I know that he was not infallible. However, nearly all of the founders of modern physics were deeply religious in a certain way. What I conclude is that it’s not necessarily a dumb, ridiculous thing to be a non-atheist.
51% of scientists believe in God,
...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@Petter Some refused to answer or were undecided.
'Science without religion is lame.
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
How about that one?
zblaze comments on Jun 4, 2018:
One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks by Xtains is "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"; But he also said, "It was of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being 'systematically' repeated. I do not believe in a personal ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
How about that one?
Does anyone think if we get serious that we will be able to save the earth from overheating?
sassysapiosexual comments on Jun 4, 2018:
Clearly, not enough is going to change.
What we really need to do is reduce the human population. WAY too many of us.
Then adaptation science **might** be able to make us more "comfortable."
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
After you ma’am.
sassysapiosexual comments on Jun 4, 2018:
Clearly, not enough is going to change.
What we really need to do is reduce the human population. WAY too many of us.
Then adaptation science **might** be able to make us more "comfortable."
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
After you ma’am.
I've been watching some shows about WWII lately.
BigBoMclain comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I've often thought the same thing. Look at Vietnam 58,000 young men died all because of our government's paranoia of communism. The people in S. Vietnam didn't give a hoot in hell what kind of government they were under. Their lives wouldn't have changed regardless. I cringe everytime I hear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@josephr I have deep respect for the people of Vietnam, and also for all my fellow Americans.
BigBoMclain comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I've often thought the same thing. Look at Vietnam 58,000 young men died all because of our government's paranoia of communism. The people in S. Vietnam didn't give a hoot in hell what kind of government they were under. Their lives wouldn't have changed regardless. I cringe everytime I hear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@josephr I have deep respect for the people of Vietnam, and also for all my fellow Americans.
I've been watching some shows about WWII lately.
BigBoMclain comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I've often thought the same thing. Look at Vietnam 58,000 young men died all because of our government's paranoia of communism. The people in S. Vietnam didn't give a hoot in hell what kind of government they were under. Their lives wouldn't have changed regardless. I cringe everytime I hear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
Don’t forget the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese who died. IMO the US should not have intervened in Vietnamese affairs, except perhaps with financial assistance or with advisers. Politicians like Johnson were afraid of communism, and they overreacted.
Talk to Vietnamese immigrants and you’ll find many who were staunch patriots of South Vietnam. To this day they still say “Saigon”.
BigBoMclain comments on Jun 4, 2018:
I've often thought the same thing. Look at Vietnam 58,000 young men died all because of our government's paranoia of communism. The people in S. Vietnam didn't give a hoot in hell what kind of government they were under. Their lives wouldn't have changed regardless. I cringe everytime I hear ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
Don’t forget the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese who died. IMO the US should not have intervened in Vietnamese affairs, except perhaps with financial assistance or with advisers. Politicians like Johnson were afraid of communism, and they overreacted.
Talk to Vietnamese immigrants and you’ll find many who were staunch patriots of South Vietnam. To this day they still say “Saigon”.
I've been watching some shows about WWII lately.
VAL3941 comments on Jun 4, 2018:
And upholds Religion ? Much of that war was religiously inspired, but not mentioned much ?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@TheGreatShadow Hitler didn’t kill in the name of God any more than Stalin and Pol Pot killed in the name of atheism. Citing the atrocities committed by politicians does nothing to advance the argument for the doctrine of atheism.
VAL3941 comments on Jun 4, 2018:
And upholds Religion ? Much of that war was religiously inspired, but not mentioned much ?
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 4, 2018:
@TheGreatShadow Hitler didn’t kill in the name of God any more than Stalin and Pol Pot killed in the name of atheism. Citing the atrocities committed by politicians does nothing to advance the argument for the doctrine of atheism.
The dangers of promoting humans over humanity.
wordywalt comments on Jun 3, 2018:
Race does not exist. It is an artificial human construct. There is no human race, but a human species. To some degree, we do have different gene pools in which inbreeding has produced some characteristics which tend to be associated with specific gene pools. But, those differences are more visual...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2018:
I agree basically, but what are you going to call those gene pools created by inbreeding that are more visual than substantive? You’ll need some word or other. The current word is “race”. Isn’t that good enough? Whatever label you choose will become skewed and misleading. Do you propose having no label at all.
For domestic animals we have “breeds”. For plants we have “varieties”. I expect the populace is going to continue referring to Blacks, Asians, Whites, etc as races whether or not we like it. The reason is that some word is needed.
wordywalt comments on Jun 3, 2018:
Race does not exist. It is an artificial human construct. There is no human race, but a human species. To some degree, we do have different gene pools in which inbreeding has produced some characteristics which tend to be associated with specific gene pools. But, those differences are more visual...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 3, 2018:
I agree basically, but what are you going to call those gene pools created by inbreeding that are more visual than substantive? You’ll need some word or other. The current word is “race”. Isn’t that good enough? Whatever label you choose will become skewed and misleading. Do you propose having no label at all.
For domestic animals we have “breeds”. For plants we have “varieties”. I expect the populace is going to continue referring to Blacks, Asians, Whites, etc as races whether or not we like it. The reason is that some word is needed.
How Faith Breaks Your Thinker
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 2, 2018:
I agree with Carter in some ways, however, I think there is a type of religion that requires no faith or belief. IMO true religion is not based on belief, but on deep awareness and appreciation for the staggering implications of the mystery of existence.
I know what he means by faith, but in ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2018:
@mordant OK
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 2, 2018:
I agree with Carter in some ways, however, I think there is a type of religion that requires no faith or belief. IMO true religion is not based on belief, but on deep awareness and appreciation for the staggering implications of the mystery of existence.
I know what he means by faith, but in ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2018:
@mordant OK
Firebrand atheists
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 2, 2018:
I think it depends on what you feel inside. I’m not an atheist at all, but to break away from my Baptist upbringing required a measure of anger, so I was a firebrand rebel for a long time. I absolutely was not going to allow myself to be lulled back in, and anger was needed.
At this point I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2018:
@AShep82 I know exactly what you mean. Some of that arrogance can be hard to take. Luckily not all church people are that way. You could be a firebrand when under attack maybe, and otherwise just be your normal nice guy with the live and let live mentality. For myself, I don’t think that a person’s opinion about religion is all that important because no one really knows anything except superficially. No one can define or understand God, and we don’t understand reality or our consciousness. We don’t even know who or what we are IMO. The most honest state of mind would just be bewilderment.
Love supersedes ego, but sometimes ego serves a purpose temporarily.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 2, 2018:
I think it depends on what you feel inside. I’m not an atheist at all, but to break away from my Baptist upbringing required a measure of anger, so I was a firebrand rebel for a long time. I absolutely was not going to allow myself to be lulled back in, and anger was needed.
At this point I ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2018:
@AShep82 I know exactly what you mean. Some of that arrogance can be hard to take. Luckily not all church people are that way. You could be a firebrand when under attack maybe, and otherwise just be your normal nice guy with the live and let live mentality. For myself, I don’t think that a person’s opinion about religion is all that important because no one really knows anything except superficially. No one can define or understand God, and we don’t understand reality or our consciousness. We don’t even know who or what we are IMO. The most honest state of mind would just be bewilderment.
Love supersedes ego, but sometimes ego serves a purpose temporarily.
How many people eat organic?
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 2, 2018:
I’m allergic to organic—eat only inorganic stuff.
Actually we grow most of our own food, but we use chemical fertilizer. Also use liberal applications of dihydrous oxide, a chemical so deadly that just a teaspoonful breathed into your lungs will kill you in minutes. It causes the plants to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2018:
@Ravenwolfcasey Yes, but we really do apply dihydrous oxide. The stuff isn’t approved but farmers around here use it anyway.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 2, 2018:
I’m allergic to organic—eat only inorganic stuff.
Actually we grow most of our own food, but we use chemical fertilizer. Also use liberal applications of dihydrous oxide, a chemical so deadly that just a teaspoonful breathed into your lungs will kill you in minutes. It causes the plants to ...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 2, 2018:
@Ravenwolfcasey Yes, but we really do apply dihydrous oxide. The stuff isn’t approved but farmers around here use it anyway.
The myth of race, debunked in 3 minutes - YouTube
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2018:
It comes down to a matter of semantics. Race is whatever it is defined to mean. There really are genetic differences among various groups.
The fact remains that everyone alive is descended from a very long line of survivors, and as such, is entitled to the utmost respect and love.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2018:
@McVinegar It is a minute difference, but enough to be noticed. The word has become loaded with illogical baggage. How many words in the dictionary are that way? Quite a lot.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2018:
It comes down to a matter of semantics. Race is whatever it is defined to mean. There really are genetic differences among various groups.
The fact remains that everyone alive is descended from a very long line of survivors, and as such, is entitled to the utmost respect and love.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2018:
@McVinegar It is a minute difference, but enough to be noticed. The word has become loaded with illogical baggage. How many words in the dictionary are that way? Quite a lot.
I am just finding out now, at 61, that some of my friends are racist.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2018:
What I find is that most of those people who sound racist aren’t really all that racist. If you pay attention to their actions you see that they are caring people who treat all fairly. I guess what comes out of their mouths is just shallow, learned behavior in most cases. Sometimes they just enjoy...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2018:
@mauxjen I was just basing it on a couple of local people that I know. I know for a fact that they aren’t truly hateful—they seem to be very popular in the Black community because of their benevolent actions.
It sounds like your two friends are actually hateful racists. If I were in your place I would probably avoid those people. I’d be embarrassed to be associated with them. You might get them to change their speech habits, but IMO any real change has to come from experience. If they got to know some Blacks maybe they’d realize that their earlier judgments were mistaken.
WilliamFleming comments on Jun 1, 2018:
What I find is that most of those people who sound racist aren’t really all that racist. If you pay attention to their actions you see that they are caring people who treat all fairly. I guess what comes out of their mouths is just shallow, learned behavior in most cases. Sometimes they just enjoy...
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2018:
@mauxjen I was just basing it on a couple of local people that I know. I know for a fact that they aren’t truly hateful—they seem to be very popular in the Black community because of their benevolent actions.
It sounds like your two friends are actually hateful racists. If I were in your place I would probably avoid those people. I’d be embarrassed to be associated with them. You might get them to change their speech habits, but IMO any real change has to come from experience. If they got to know some Blacks maybe they’d realize that their earlier judgments were mistaken.
Does a dog have a consciousness?
JeffMesser comments on Jun 1, 2018:
the same self or awareness that resides within us also resides within the dog. it is just filtered through different apparatus no the ability to connect is limited.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2018:
I read your profile. Consider me on board with your ideas about consciousness. Have you looked at CTMU, Christopher Langan’s creation? There’s also the theory of Conscious Realism by Cognitive Scientist Donald Hoffman that is of interest.
JeffMesser comments on Jun 1, 2018:
the same self or awareness that resides within us also resides within the dog. it is just filtered through different apparatus no the ability to connect is limited.
WilliamFleming replies on Jun 1, 2018:
I read your profile. Consider me on board with your ideas about consciousness. Have you looked at CTMU, Christopher Langan’s creation? There’s also the theory of Conscious Realism by Cognitive Scientist Donald Hoffman that is of interest.
Does anyone think we will live in a post-religious society?
WilliamFleming comments on May 31, 2018:
Depends on how you define religion. Religious organizations seem to be on the wane, but deep religious sentiment by individuals is an integral and valuable part of humanity IMO.
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 31, 2018:
@brentan Sounds like we think alike.
WilliamFleming comments on May 31, 2018:
Depends on how you define religion. Religious organizations seem to be on the wane, but deep religious sentiment by individuals is an integral and valuable part of humanity IMO.
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 31, 2018:
@brentan Sounds like we think alike.
Do you find it offensive when theist think without a belief in god/gods, it’s impossible to have ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 30, 2018:
Being offended is unhealthy and unnecessary. If you are going to buck the crowd you know in advance that you’ll get flak from some quarters.
I suppose a person could make a big whoop-de-doo over being different and superior just for ego purposes, and in that case, being offended would ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@OroLee Well said. You are probably right.
WilliamFleming comments on May 30, 2018:
Being offended is unhealthy and unnecessary. If you are going to buck the crowd you know in advance that you’ll get flak from some quarters.
I suppose a person could make a big whoop-de-doo over being different and superior just for ego purposes, and in that case, being offended would ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@OroLee Well said. You are probably right.
Schrodinger's positivism
WilliamFleming comments on May 30, 2018:
Was Schrödinger a positivist? I can find no connection. This is from Wikipedia, discussing Schrödinger’s “What is Life?”:
“Upanishads considered this insight of "ATHMAN = BRAHMAN" to "represent quintessence of deepest insights into the happenings of the world. Schrödinger rejects the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@EOrionSpero OK, I get it. Thanks.
WilliamFleming comments on May 30, 2018:
Was Schrödinger a positivist? I can find no connection. This is from Wikipedia, discussing Schrödinger’s “What is Life?”:
“Upanishads considered this insight of "ATHMAN = BRAHMAN" to "represent quintessence of deepest insights into the happenings of the world. Schrödinger rejects the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@EOrionSpero OK, I get it. Thanks.
'Nuff Said
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2018:
There’s no logic to the crucifixion narrative. Jesus would have died at some point, as we all do. Being nailed to a cross was just the common method of execution at the time.
If some modern person were put to death because of their teachings, and zealots made up a religion about it, then future...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@JackPedigo Great letter!
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2018:
There’s no logic to the crucifixion narrative. Jesus would have died at some point, as we all do. Being nailed to a cross was just the common method of execution at the time.
If some modern person were put to death because of their teachings, and zealots made up a religion about it, then future...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@JackPedigo Great letter!
Imagine yourself walking along a path to an unknown destination.
KKTRANScender comments on May 29, 2018:
Lots of comments here. A lot of people missed what I was implying here. So I put it too you more plainly.
A theist and and anti-theist walk into a bar. Naturally an argument ensues.
Theist: there is a God! I have all the proof here in this book.
Anti- theist: there is no God. Your proof is ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@Wurlitzer I get your point. On Bigfoot I will remain undecided unless better evidence comes forth, but I might lean one way or the other. I lean toward disbelief at this point. Bigfoot is a clearly defined concept. There are various concepts of God, none well defined but some of which interest me greatly. IMO, belief or disbelief is entirely inappropriate. What I think is appropriate is abject shock and awe in the face of existence and consciousness, and I equate that with KK’s chasm.
KKTRANScender comments on May 29, 2018:
Lots of comments here. A lot of people missed what I was implying here. So I put it too you more plainly.
A theist and and anti-theist walk into a bar. Naturally an argument ensues.
Theist: there is a God! I have all the proof here in this book.
Anti- theist: there is no God. Your proof is ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@Wurlitzer I get your point. On Bigfoot I will remain undecided unless better evidence comes forth, but I might lean one way or the other. I lean toward disbelief at this point. Bigfoot is a clearly defined concept. There are various concepts of God, none well defined but some of which interest me greatly. IMO, belief or disbelief is entirely inappropriate. What I think is appropriate is abject shock and awe in the face of existence and consciousness, and I equate that with KK’s chasm.
Imagine yourself walking along a path to an unknown destination.
KKTRANScender comments on May 29, 2018:
Lots of comments here. A lot of people missed what I was implying here. So I put it too you more plainly.
A theist and and anti-theist walk into a bar. Naturally an argument ensues.
Theist: there is a God! I have all the proof here in this book.
Anti- theist: there is no God. Your proof is ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@Wurlitzer “Evidence can only exist for the positive, and burden of proof is on that claim and that claim alone until some evidence can be presented.“
I agree with KK: The burden of proof concept has no application in society at large. No one has a burden to prove anything at all. Everyone is perfectly free to propose theories, speculation, opinions or whatever they please, and no proof is necessary. If you disagree with a person’s opinion, and you want them to change, rather than demand proof and shout that there is ZERO evidence, it would be more affective to present evidence of your own. Say WHY you believe as you do.
Your statement that evidence can only exist for the positive is incorrect. I don’t know who started the silly saying that you can’t prove a negative, but if you google you’ll learn that you can indeed prove a negative assertion. In fact, every assertion can be expressed in negative or positive terms. For example, the statement “you can’t prove a negative” is itself a negative assertion. If negative assertions can not be proven, then you should not make that statement.
KKTRANScender comments on May 29, 2018:
Lots of comments here. A lot of people missed what I was implying here. So I put it too you more plainly.
A theist and and anti-theist walk into a bar. Naturally an argument ensues.
Theist: there is a God! I have all the proof here in this book.
Anti- theist: there is no God. Your proof is ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 30, 2018:
@Wurlitzer “Evidence can only exist for the positive, and burden of proof is on that claim and that claim alone until some evidence can be presented.“
I agree with KK: The burden of proof concept has no application in society at large. No one has a burden to prove anything at all. Everyone is perfectly free to propose theories, speculation, opinions or whatever they please, and no proof is necessary. If you disagree with a person’s opinion, and you want them to change, rather than demand proof and shout that there is ZERO evidence, it would be more affective to present evidence of your own. Say WHY you believe as you do.
Your statement that evidence can only exist for the positive is incorrect. I don’t know who started the silly saying that you can’t prove a negative, but if you google you’ll learn that you can indeed prove a negative assertion. In fact, every assertion can be expressed in negative or positive terms. For example, the statement “you can’t prove a negative” is itself a negative assertion. If negative assertions can not be proven, then you should not make that statement.
'Nuff Said
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2018:
There’s no logic to the crucifixion narrative. Jesus would have died at some point, as we all do. Being nailed to a cross was just the common method of execution at the time.
If some modern person were put to death because of their teachings, and zealots made up a religion about it, then future...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@JackPedigo How can you prove there is no heaven? How can you prove there are only levels of hell? In my opinion there is no hell, except for what we create for ourselves with untrue, negative thoughts. If you define heaven as a higher reality beyond the scope of our limited earthly perspective, it makes sense to say that we are actually in heaven but are unable to appreciate that fact.
The crucifixion narrative as presented by churches seems illogical to me, and makes no sense. Whatever Roman officials may have thought or done has nothing to do with my point.
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2018:
There’s no logic to the crucifixion narrative. Jesus would have died at some point, as we all do. Being nailed to a cross was just the common method of execution at the time.
If some modern person were put to death because of their teachings, and zealots made up a religion about it, then future...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@JackPedigo How can you prove there is no heaven? How can you prove there are only levels of hell? In my opinion there is no hell, except for what we create for ourselves with untrue, negative thoughts. If you define heaven as a higher reality beyond the scope of our limited earthly perspective, it makes sense to say that we are actually in heaven but are unable to appreciate that fact.
The crucifixion narrative as presented by churches seems illogical to me, and makes no sense. Whatever Roman officials may have thought or done has nothing to do with my point.
Recently a friend told me a joke about a couple arriving in Heaven and receiving a tour.
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2018:
There is a heaven and we are in it right now, but we lack awareness because of untrue, mistaken thoughts.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@dare2dream We deal with those things as they arise, but they need not bring anguish or long-term unhappiness IMO.
Suppose an asteroid totally destroyed the earth, wiping out conscious awareness. From one perspective it would be of no concern. Consciousness might arise again in a trillion years in another place. It would seem like the blink of an eye, as though zero time had passed. Forms come and go but higher reality is immutable.
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2018:
There is a heaven and we are in it right now, but we lack awareness because of untrue, mistaken thoughts.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@dare2dream We deal with those things as they arise, but they need not bring anguish or long-term unhappiness IMO.
Suppose an asteroid totally destroyed the earth, wiping out conscious awareness. From one perspective it would be of no concern. Consciousness might arise again in a trillion years in another place. It would seem like the blink of an eye, as though zero time had passed. Forms come and go but higher reality is immutable.
Recently a friend told me a joke about a couple arriving in Heaven and receiving a tour.
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2018:
There is a heaven and we are in it right now, but we lack awareness because of untrue, mistaken thoughts.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@dare2dream IMO we cause our own suffering through untrue thoughts—making negative judgments, blowing things out of proportion, and nursing grudges.
The worst event you can rhink of would be trivial as viewed from a higher perspective.
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2018:
There is a heaven and we are in it right now, but we lack awareness because of untrue, mistaken thoughts.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@dare2dream IMO we cause our own suffering through untrue thoughts—making negative judgments, blowing things out of proportion, and nursing grudges.
The worst event you can rhink of would be trivial as viewed from a higher perspective.
Imagine yourself walking along a path to an unknown destination.
KKGator comments on May 29, 2018:
Unless and until there is credible, verifiable evidence of any god, it's reasonable to assert that there aren't any. I don't have to prove there is no "THERE" there. There's never been any evidence to prove there is.
I can't even tell you "nice try", because it wasn't.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
She said not one word about there being a god.
KKGator comments on May 29, 2018:
Unless and until there is credible, verifiable evidence of any god, it's reasonable to assert that there aren't any. I don't have to prove there is no "THERE" there. There's never been any evidence to prove there is.
I can't even tell you "nice try", because it wasn't.
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
She said not one word about there being a god.
Imagine yourself walking along a path to an unknown destination.
poetdi56 comments on May 29, 2018:
I don't need "faith" to know there is no god. You are entitled to your view, of course, which is one reason I love this site. But there is NO evidence there is a god/ess/s, so where is the need for faith? I'm not looking for evidence that there is NO god, there is no evidence that that there IS ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
I saw where she talked about a chasm, but nothing about there being a God.
poetdi56 comments on May 29, 2018:
I don't need "faith" to know there is no god. You are entitled to your view, of course, which is one reason I love this site. But there is NO evidence there is a god/ess/s, so where is the need for faith? I'm not looking for evidence that there is NO god, there is no evidence that that there IS ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
I saw where she talked about a chasm, but nothing about there being a God.
Imagine yourself walking along a path to an unknown destination.
IAMGROOT comments on May 29, 2018:
Sorry, but you are placing the burden of proof on the side that is requiring evidence. Religious "faith" is based solely on that; faith. It requires you to accept that for which there is no proof. Nonbelievers don't believe BECAUSE there is no proof. They are not required to disprove that which ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
What claims were made that require a proof? People are totally free to express and discuss their intuitive, metaphysical opinions. The concept of proof simply does not apply.
James Clerk Maxwell:
“It has been asserted that metaphysical speculation is a thing of the past, and that physical science has extirpated it. The discussion of the categories of existence, however, does not appear to be in danger of coming to an end in our time, and the exercise of speculation continues as fascinating to every fresh mind as it was in the days of Thales.”
IAMGROOT comments on May 29, 2018:
Sorry, but you are placing the burden of proof on the side that is requiring evidence. Religious "faith" is based solely on that; faith. It requires you to accept that for which there is no proof. Nonbelievers don't believe BECAUSE there is no proof. They are not required to disprove that which ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
What claims were made that require a proof? People are totally free to express and discuss their intuitive, metaphysical opinions. The concept of proof simply does not apply.
James Clerk Maxwell:
“It has been asserted that metaphysical speculation is a thing of the past, and that physical science has extirpated it. The discussion of the categories of existence, however, does not appear to be in danger of coming to an end in our time, and the exercise of speculation continues as fascinating to every fresh mind as it was in the days of Thales.”
I was thinking about the whole cyberpunk concept of transferring the contents of a person's brain ...
Simon1 comments on May 29, 2018:
No it's just a copy . The copy may think it's you but will never be you . It's a bit like triggers broom ...http://foolsandhorses.weebly.com/triggers-broom.html
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@Robotbuilder Amazing isn’t it. I don’t know if it is me or not—hell, I don’t know who or what I am.
Anyway, I notice the book is rated five stars. It’s a wild success with two downloads, one each by me and my daughter.
We aren’t supposed to use this forum for hawking goods. I don’t propose that anyone buy the book. I’m just saying it’s there.
Simon1 comments on May 29, 2018:
No it's just a copy . The copy may think it's you but will never be you . It's a bit like triggers broom ...http://foolsandhorses.weebly.com/triggers-broom.html
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@Robotbuilder Amazing isn’t it. I don’t know if it is me or not—hell, I don’t know who or what I am.
Anyway, I notice the book is rated five stars. It’s a wild success with two downloads, one each by me and my daughter.
We aren’t supposed to use this forum for hawking goods. I don’t propose that anyone buy the book. I’m just saying it’s there.
'Nuff Said
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2018:
There’s no logic to the crucifixion narrative. Jesus would have died at some point, as we all do. Being nailed to a cross was just the common method of execution at the time.
If some modern person were put to death because of their teachings, and zealots made up a religion about it, then future...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@JackPedigo Sure, it probably happened. The illogic is in claiming that Jesus died so that we might be saved, and that if we believe we will go to heaven. If we don’t believe we are supposed to go to hell. Weird and unbelievable.
IMO We are in heaven right now.
WilliamFleming comments on May 28, 2018:
There’s no logic to the crucifixion narrative. Jesus would have died at some point, as we all do. Being nailed to a cross was just the common method of execution at the time.
If some modern person were put to death because of their teachings, and zealots made up a religion about it, then future...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@JackPedigo Sure, it probably happened. The illogic is in claiming that Jesus died so that we might be saved, and that if we believe we will go to heaven. If we don’t believe we are supposed to go to hell. Weird and unbelievable.
IMO We are in heaven right now.
I feel this is true for most people who finally open their eyes to reality.
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2018:
I don’t think people truly believe stuff just because they are told to. They might pretend to believe in order to please their parents, assuage fear, get a good grade, etc, but if the assertions do not seem reasonable their belief is skin deep. If they “lose their faith” it is because they ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@AmyLF Good Point.
WilliamFleming comments on May 29, 2018:
I don’t think people truly believe stuff just because they are told to. They might pretend to believe in order to please their parents, assuage fear, get a good grade, etc, but if the assertions do not seem reasonable their belief is skin deep. If they “lose their faith” it is because they ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 29, 2018:
@AmyLF Good Point.
Is Reality Just a Figment of Our Imagination?
WilliamFleming comments on May 23, 2018:
I think the everyday physical world perceived by our senses is illusory. It is symbolic though of a higher reality that we can not detect. Space, time, and matter are only parameters, useful by our minds in organizing data for survival.
Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman theorizes “Conscious ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2018:
@doug6352 You make some excellent points. The true spirit of science requires a mind open to new ideas. Debunking anything that goes against the science establishment—that is what pseudoscience is IMO. It’s just an opinion but I think Andrea Rossi is poised to change the world very soon, but when I say that aloud I get skewered.
I’ll check out Dr. Klenner.
WilliamFleming comments on May 23, 2018:
I think the everyday physical world perceived by our senses is illusory. It is symbolic though of a higher reality that we can not detect. Space, time, and matter are only parameters, useful by our minds in organizing data for survival.
Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman theorizes “Conscious ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2018:
@doug6352 You make some excellent points. The true spirit of science requires a mind open to new ideas. Debunking anything that goes against the science establishment—that is what pseudoscience is IMO. It’s just an opinion but I think Andrea Rossi is poised to change the world very soon, but when I say that aloud I get skewered.
I’ll check out Dr. Klenner.
Flat Earthers. Seriuosly?
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2018:
The flat earth model is very limited but it does have some uses. For example, land surveyors often assume that the earth is flat when they do small surveys.
What is usually overlooked is that the planetary model with a spheroidal earth is also nothing but a mathematical model. Just think, the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2018:
@DaveMania A bit of reading will give you some superficial knowledge, and I maintain that superficial knowledge is all that anyone has. The true nature of reality is a deep and unfathomable mystery.
I guess superficial knowledge is better than a deliberate false paradigm. Could those folks just be jerking our chains or playing for attention?
WilliamFleming comments on May 27, 2018:
The flat earth model is very limited but it does have some uses. For example, land surveyors often assume that the earth is flat when they do small surveys.
What is usually overlooked is that the planetary model with a spheroidal earth is also nothing but a mathematical model. Just think, the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 28, 2018:
@DaveMania A bit of reading will give you some superficial knowledge, and I maintain that superficial knowledge is all that anyone has. The true nature of reality is a deep and unfathomable mystery.
I guess superficial knowledge is better than a deliberate false paradigm. Could those folks just be jerking our chains or playing for attention?
Is Reality Just a Figment of Our Imagination?
WilliamFleming comments on May 23, 2018:
I think the everyday physical world perceived by our senses is illusory. It is symbolic though of a higher reality that we can not detect. Space, time, and matter are only parameters, useful by our minds in organizing data for survival.
Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman theorizes “Conscious ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2018:
@doug6352 Thanks for that link. I just watched it all. Also I previously read Sheldrake’s book on the same subject. I didn’t know he had been banned from TED though.
Did you read “Biocentrism”. I was taken with it but the follow-up book was disappointing.
WilliamFleming comments on May 23, 2018:
I think the everyday physical world perceived by our senses is illusory. It is symbolic though of a higher reality that we can not detect. Space, time, and matter are only parameters, useful by our minds in organizing data for survival.
Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman theorizes “Conscious ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2018:
@doug6352 Thanks for that link. I just watched it all. Also I previously read Sheldrake’s book on the same subject. I didn’t know he had been banned from TED though.
Did you read “Biocentrism”. I was taken with it but the follow-up book was disappointing.
Is Reality Just a Figment of Our Imagination?
WilliamFleming comments on May 23, 2018:
I think the everyday physical world perceived by our senses is illusory. It is symbolic though of a higher reality that we can not detect. Space, time, and matter are only parameters, useful by our minds in organizing data for survival.
Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman theorizes “Conscious ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2018:
@doug6352 I don’t pretend to understand Dr. Hoffman completely, but I think you are right. He says there is a true reality, and it’s not just a dream or whatever. It’s not that we misperceive so much as that things we perceive are only icons or symbols of the real thing. He thinks that rather than space, time, and matter, reality is made out of “conscious agents”.
It’s an idea that seems to resonate with me for some reason but I doubt it’s a complete and true picture. Nobody knows what reality is IMO.
WilliamFleming comments on May 23, 2018:
I think the everyday physical world perceived by our senses is illusory. It is symbolic though of a higher reality that we can not detect. Space, time, and matter are only parameters, useful by our minds in organizing data for survival.
Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman theorizes “Conscious ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 27, 2018:
@doug6352 I don’t pretend to understand Dr. Hoffman completely, but I think you are right. He says there is a true reality, and it’s not just a dream or whatever. It’s not that we misperceive so much as that things we perceive are only icons or symbols of the real thing. He thinks that rather than space, time, and matter, reality is made out of “conscious agents”.
It’s an idea that seems to resonate with me for some reason but I doubt it’s a complete and true picture. Nobody knows what reality is IMO.
Do you think that the religious are Gullible?
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2018:
Can’t check any of the three options. There have been, however, some very intelligent religious people—Einstein for example.
IMO the most meaningful dichotomy is not between theists and atheists but between those with the courage to evolve in their understanding and those with fixed, ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 25, 2018:
@Piece2YourPuzzle Maybe we should say that he was a religious atheist.
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2018:
Can’t check any of the three options. There have been, however, some very intelligent religious people—Einstein for example.
IMO the most meaningful dichotomy is not between theists and atheists but between those with the courage to evolve in their understanding and those with fixed, ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 25, 2018:
@Piece2YourPuzzle Maybe we should say that he was a religious atheist.
Do you think that the religious are Gullible?
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2018:
Can’t check any of the three options. There have been, however, some very intelligent religious people—Einstein for example.
IMO the most meaningful dichotomy is not between theists and atheists but between those with the courage to evolve in their understanding and those with fixed, ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 25, 2018:
@TheLiberalGent Einstein described himself many times as being religious. Just look at his quotes in Wikiquote.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.”
“I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”
Because he did not believe in the personal God prescribed by organized religion does not mean he was not religious.
WilliamFleming comments on May 25, 2018:
Can’t check any of the three options. There have been, however, some very intelligent religious people—Einstein for example.
IMO the most meaningful dichotomy is not between theists and atheists but between those with the courage to evolve in their understanding and those with fixed, ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 25, 2018:
@TheLiberalGent Einstein described himself many times as being religious. Just look at his quotes in Wikiquote.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.”
“I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”
Because he did not believe in the personal God prescribed by organized religion does not mean he was not religious.
Atheists, is atheism the default of the failed philosophical hypothesis of a god or is it the ...
mordant comments on May 22, 2018:
Atheism isn't a belief, it's a position *about* belief, namely, I see no evidence that would substantiate theism's truth claims, so I decline to believe them. This makes me an atheist by definition, not by belief.
More broadly, a skeptic / critical thinker does not afford belief to the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
@mordant Sound good, except that IMO we know nothing except in a superficial way, and certainly nothing outside our space/time/matter model except glimmers of intuition.
mordant comments on May 22, 2018:
Atheism isn't a belief, it's a position *about* belief, namely, I see no evidence that would substantiate theism's truth claims, so I decline to believe them. This makes me an atheist by definition, not by belief.
More broadly, a skeptic / critical thinker does not afford belief to the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
@mordant Sound good, except that IMO we know nothing except in a superficial way, and certainly nothing outside our space/time/matter model except glimmers of intuition.
Appeal to Ignorance
Coldo comments on May 23, 2018:
What Is God?
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
@Coldo Very good quote! Thanks for that link.
Coldo comments on May 23, 2018:
What Is God?
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
@Coldo Very good quote! Thanks for that link.
Atheists, is atheism the default of the failed philosophical hypothesis of a god or is it the ...
mordant comments on May 22, 2018:
Atheism isn't a belief, it's a position *about* belief, namely, I see no evidence that would substantiate theism's truth claims, so I decline to believe them. This makes me an atheist by definition, not by belief.
More broadly, a skeptic / critical thinker does not afford belief to the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
The so-called “supernatural” can be thought of in a way different than magic. Everything can be considered supernatural. The part of this greater reality that we are able to perceive—that is our own personal reality, which we label the physical universe. As such we are all supernatural beings. This is not woo—it’s been established science since the days of Maxwell.
mordant comments on May 22, 2018:
Atheism isn't a belief, it's a position *about* belief, namely, I see no evidence that would substantiate theism's truth claims, so I decline to believe them. This makes me an atheist by definition, not by belief.
More broadly, a skeptic / critical thinker does not afford belief to the ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
The so-called “supernatural” can be thought of in a way different than magic. Everything can be considered supernatural. The part of this greater reality that we are able to perceive—that is our own personal reality, which we label the physical universe. As such we are all supernatural beings. This is not woo—it’s been established science since the days of Maxwell.
Atheists, is atheism the default of the failed philosophical hypothesis of a god or is it the ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 22, 2018:
Logically I see no difference in the assertion that you do not believe in God, and the assertion that you believe that God does not exist. If you said that you were undecided or that you didn’t know, that would be different.
I am not an atheist. I lean toward the concept of universal ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
@phxbillcee It seems to me that there’s a difference in saying that “I believe God doesn’t exist” and the bald-faced assertion that there is no God. The first is a statement about yourself, which would be clearer if prefaced by “in my opinion”. If you were a Canadian you could end with “aye?”
As an analogy, say that two people are looking and one says, “I see a deer” and the other says: “I don’t see it”. They are talking about themselves and there should be no cause for argument. If the second says, “You are full of crap and there is zero evidence for a deer. You have made a positive statement and now you have the burden of proof “, well in that case there might be hard feelings. From the perspective of the first person, it was just a glimmer of a sighting from far off. He has already said all he knows about it and has no further evidence to offer. If they are friends they will accommodate each other’s human limitations without psychoanalyzing or making Ill judgments.
Of course there is the case where the first person forms a deer cult and decrees that anyone who does not see a deer will go to hell. Banding together against such nonsense is perfectly understandable.
The concept of burden of proof makes no sense to me as applied to normal conversation.
WilliamFleming comments on May 22, 2018:
Logically I see no difference in the assertion that you do not believe in God, and the assertion that you believe that God does not exist. If you said that you were undecided or that you didn’t know, that would be different.
I am not an atheist. I lean toward the concept of universal ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 24, 2018:
@phxbillcee It seems to me that there’s a difference in saying that “I believe God doesn’t exist” and the bald-faced assertion that there is no God. The first is a statement about yourself, which would be clearer if prefaced by “in my opinion”. If you were a Canadian you could end with “aye?”
As an analogy, say that two people are looking and one says, “I see a deer” and the other says: “I don’t see it”. They are talking about themselves and there should be no cause for argument. If the second says, “You are full of crap and there is zero evidence for a deer. You have made a positive statement and now you have the burden of proof “, well in that case there might be hard feelings. From the perspective of the first person, it was just a glimmer of a sighting from far off. He has already said all he knows about it and has no further evidence to offer. If they are friends they will accommodate each other’s human limitations without psychoanalyzing or making Ill judgments.
Of course there is the case where the first person forms a deer cult and decrees that anyone who does not see a deer will go to hell. Banding together against such nonsense is perfectly understandable.
The concept of burden of proof makes no sense to me as applied to normal conversation.
Appeal to Ignorance
Coldo comments on May 23, 2018:
What Is God?
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
Lots of unproven assertions there, especially that closing line that God does not exist. What about the burden of proof concept? Does it only apply to assertion with which you disagree?
Coldo comments on May 23, 2018:
What Is God?
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
Lots of unproven assertions there, especially that closing line that God does not exist. What about the burden of proof concept? Does it only apply to assertion with which you disagree?
13 Common (But Silly) Superstitions
DenoPenno comments on May 23, 2018:
While I can stand not walking under a ladder because something like paint just may fall on you, lots of this is plain out silly. Let's take 666 from the Buybull for example. Is it the number of "man" or the number of "a man?" Some just cannot stand it. They want no 666 in their address or phone ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
I prefer 69.
DenoPenno comments on May 23, 2018:
While I can stand not walking under a ladder because something like paint just may fall on you, lots of this is plain out silly. Let's take 666 from the Buybull for example. Is it the number of "man" or the number of "a man?" Some just cannot stand it. They want no 666 in their address or phone ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
I prefer 69.
Is it not as easy to say there is no god, as it is to say there is a god?
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
@KenG, @okiestache I neither affirm nor deny your assertion. You need not offer evidence or proof. I will file this bit of information in a very remote part of memory. If corroborating date comes to light I’ll think about it more.
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
@KenG, @okiestache I neither affirm nor deny your assertion. You need not offer evidence or proof. I will file this bit of information in a very remote part of memory. If corroborating date comes to light I’ll think about it more.
Is it not as easy to say there is no god, as it is to say there is a god?
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
@okiestache, @KenG You are right of course. No one can force another person to believe something.
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
@okiestache, @KenG You are right of course. No one can force another person to believe something.
Is it not as easy to say there is no god, as it is to say there is a god?
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
@okiestache Perhaps you live by science, but there have been many, many eminent, creative, scientists who were deeply religious, among them Einstein, Planck, Bohr, Edmonton, et al. Being deeply religious does not mean that you make claims for the existence of God. and try to prove those claims. It means that the very concept of existence is baffling, and that you are in awe and wonder.
Max Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter".
Planck had every right to express his intuitive thoughts, and he had no obligation to prove them to anyone. BTW, there is abundant evidence in physics for the primacy of consciousness.
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 23, 2018:
@okiestache Perhaps you live by science, but there have been many, many eminent, creative, scientists who were deeply religious, among them Einstein, Planck, Bohr, Edmonton, et al. Being deeply religious does not mean that you make claims for the existence of God. and try to prove those claims. It means that the very concept of existence is baffling, and that you are in awe and wonder.
Max Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter".
Planck had every right to express his intuitive thoughts, and he had no obligation to prove them to anyone. BTW, there is abundant evidence in physics for the primacy of consciousness.
Do you want to "evangelize" chistian family and friends?
wordywalt comments on May 22, 2018:
They have to find their own way to truth. Many of them never will. The best way to promote change is to immerse a person in a different culture which gets them to challenge their beliefs, but treats them with dignity.
WilliamFleming replies on May 22, 2018:
Are you saying that ultimate truth has been discovered and that any honest and intelligent person will come to hold the same opinion as yourself?
How do you explain Albert Einstein, who spoke of God?
wordywalt comments on May 22, 2018:
They have to find their own way to truth. Many of them never will. The best way to promote change is to immerse a person in a different culture which gets them to challenge their beliefs, but treats them with dignity.
WilliamFleming replies on May 22, 2018:
Are you saying that ultimate truth has been discovered and that any honest and intelligent person will come to hold the same opinion as yourself?
How do you explain Albert Einstein, who spoke of God?
Is it not as easy to say there is no god, as it is to say there is a god?
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 22, 2018:
I disagree with the burden of proof concept. That is a bit of legal jargon that means something in court but not in society at large. The is no burden of proof. The only burden is for each person to look at the available evidence with an open mind. There isn’t even a requirement to decide.
There is nothing wrong at all about propagating opinions, speculation, metaphysical ideas, or total fantasy.
People like to say that there is NO evidence for this or that thing. There is always some evidence. What they mean is that the evidence is not scientifically acceptable. But we are not doing science—we are discussing metaphysical ideas or intuitive opinions or what have you.
KenG comments on May 22, 2018:
The person making a claim has the burden of proof.
WilliamFleming replies on May 22, 2018:
I disagree with the burden of proof concept. That is a bit of legal jargon that means something in court but not in society at large. The is no burden of proof. The only burden is for each person to look at the available evidence with an open mind. There isn’t even a requirement to decide.
There is nothing wrong at all about propagating opinions, speculation, metaphysical ideas, or total fantasy.
People like to say that there is NO evidence for this or that thing. There is always some evidence. What they mean is that the evidence is not scientifically acceptable. But we are not doing science—we are discussing metaphysical ideas or intuitive opinions or what have you.
So, the right is saying gun control won't help? So, what will help? I'm not hearing any answers!
Kojaksmom comments on May 18, 2018:
Exactly! Let's hear some solutions. Particularly from the conservative right-wing that I know are in the group
WilliamFleming replies on May 19, 2018:
@Kojaksmom Google and you’ll find lots of information. It’s a sticky subject because the vast majority of those using psychiatric drugs don’t turn into mass murderers. Also, many patients swear by their drugs. My personal unprofessional opinion is that those drugs should be used sparingly and temporarily. There are better ways to help people as described in the book “ Rethinking Madness”. Also read Peter Breggin.
Perhaps those drugs deaden ones sense of empathy—I can’t say.
Kojaksmom comments on May 18, 2018:
Exactly! Let's hear some solutions. Particularly from the conservative right-wing that I know are in the group
WilliamFleming replies on May 19, 2018:
@Kojaksmom Google and you’ll find lots of information. It’s a sticky subject because the vast majority of those using psychiatric drugs don’t turn into mass murderers. Also, many patients swear by their drugs. My personal unprofessional opinion is that those drugs should be used sparingly and temporarily. There are better ways to help people as described in the book “ Rethinking Madness”. Also read Peter Breggin.
Perhaps those drugs deaden ones sense of empathy—I can’t say.
So, the right is saying gun control won't help? So, what will help? I'm not hearing any answers!
Kojaksmom comments on May 18, 2018:
Exactly! Let's hear some solutions. Particularly from the conservative right-wing that I know are in the group
WilliamFleming replies on May 18, 2018:
In just about every one of these shooting events the perpetrator was taking psychiatric medicines. Outlaw, regulate, or restrict those medicines.
Don’t have to be a conservative right winger to see the solution—everyone should be yelling bloody murder to get things changed.
Kojaksmom comments on May 18, 2018:
Exactly! Let's hear some solutions. Particularly from the conservative right-wing that I know are in the group
WilliamFleming replies on May 18, 2018:
In just about every one of these shooting events the perpetrator was taking psychiatric medicines. Outlaw, regulate, or restrict those medicines.
Don’t have to be a conservative right winger to see the solution—everyone should be yelling bloody murder to get things changed.
I suffer from existential depression/angst. Can anyone relate?
WilliamFleming comments on May 17, 2018:
I’m an no professional counselor—I can only say what worked for me. I read “Help Yourself to Happiness” by Dr. Maxie Maultsby, and practiced the recommended exercise. It was like flipping a switch, with anger, sadness and loneliness flying away, and joy overtaking me. Emotions follow ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 18, 2018:
@Swingdancer I think I understand. It’s both a curse and a blessing and you don’t want to be “cured”.
You are living on the edge and it feels precarious as well as exhilarating. Do I have it right?
WilliamFleming comments on May 17, 2018:
I’m an no professional counselor—I can only say what worked for me. I read “Help Yourself to Happiness” by Dr. Maxie Maultsby, and practiced the recommended exercise. It was like flipping a switch, with anger, sadness and loneliness flying away, and joy overtaking me. Emotions follow ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 18, 2018:
@Swingdancer I think I understand. It’s both a curse and a blessing and you don’t want to be “cured”.
You are living on the edge and it feels precarious as well as exhilarating. Do I have it right?
I find a lot of non-believers still believe in magical thinking in other areas, outside of organized...
pixiedust comments on May 15, 2018:
Carl Sagan's book, "The Demon Haunted World" explained every odd thing I had ever experienced. It was a relief to no longer feel half nuts.
WilliamFleming replies on May 15, 2018:
Please note that in Carl Sagan’s last book he suggested that there might be something to telekinesis, and he recommended further study of that phenomenon.
True scientists have open minds and do not hesitate to explore new ideas, even when those ideas seem at odds with orthodoxy.
pixiedust comments on May 15, 2018:
Carl Sagan's book, "The Demon Haunted World" explained every odd thing I had ever experienced. It was a relief to no longer feel half nuts.
WilliamFleming replies on May 15, 2018:
Please note that in Carl Sagan’s last book he suggested that there might be something to telekinesis, and he recommended further study of that phenomenon.
True scientists have open minds and do not hesitate to explore new ideas, even when those ideas seem at odds with orthodoxy.
Faith is Not a Source of Knowledge
A common characteristic of both theism and religion is their ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 14, 2018:
@icolan There are various shades of atheism. IMO it is not as simple as a lack of belief. If you say that you do not believe in God, how is that any different than saying that in your opinion there is no God? You might claim to be making an assertion only about yourself, but in reality, you do believe that there is no God.
There are various concepts of God. If you lump them all together and reject all the concepts out of hand you are throwing out the baby with the bath water in my opinion. In order to reject all concepts of God you would need to reject the idea of a higher reality beyond our space/time/matter model. I am not talking here about the supernatural. I am talking about an aspect of nature that we can not experience with our senses. Also, there is a profound mystery connected with conscious awareness. In order to reject every concept of God you would have to believe that conscious awareness is caused by the firing of neurons—another dogma.
I do not call myself an atheist, but I very much value the intelligence and courage exhibited on this site. I feel much more at home here than I would feel on some sort of church site. I respect your opinions and I hope y’all will allow me to participate. A person’s opinion about religion is only a very tiny, trivial fraction of the whole person.
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 14, 2018:
@icolan There are various shades of atheism. IMO it is not as simple as a lack of belief. If you say that you do not believe in God, how is that any different than saying that in your opinion there is no God? You might claim to be making an assertion only about yourself, but in reality, you do believe that there is no God.
There are various concepts of God. If you lump them all together and reject all the concepts out of hand you are throwing out the baby with the bath water in my opinion. In order to reject all concepts of God you would need to reject the idea of a higher reality beyond our space/time/matter model. I am not talking here about the supernatural. I am talking about an aspect of nature that we can not experience with our senses. Also, there is a profound mystery connected with conscious awareness. In order to reject every concept of God you would have to believe that conscious awareness is caused by the firing of neurons—another dogma.
I do not call myself an atheist, but I very much value the intelligence and courage exhibited on this site. I feel much more at home here than I would feel on some sort of church site. I respect your opinions and I hope y’all will allow me to participate. A person’s opinion about religion is only a very tiny, trivial fraction of the whole person.
Faith is Not a Source of Knowledge
A common characteristic of both theism and religion is their ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 13, 2018:
@icolan I think that to understand a person you have to look farther than their statements about what they believe or disbelieve. You have to ask them why they believe or disbelieve. If the question stirs up defensiveness, then that figures into the assessment. We are not dealing here with science or mathematics. IMO true religion is not interested in belief, but in awareness and appreciation.
If you throw all religious sentiment into the same basket and condemn it, then you fault such notable physicists as Albert Einstein, Max Planck, and many others.
I am a disbeliever of church dogma, but I do not call myself an atheist. Arguing over the existence of “God” is a boring, dead end street because no one can define or understand God. A better term would be “The Great Unknown”.
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 13, 2018:
@icolan I think that to understand a person you have to look farther than their statements about what they believe or disbelieve. You have to ask them why they believe or disbelieve. If the question stirs up defensiveness, then that figures into the assessment. We are not dealing here with science or mathematics. IMO true religion is not interested in belief, but in awareness and appreciation.
If you throw all religious sentiment into the same basket and condemn it, then you fault such notable physicists as Albert Einstein, Max Planck, and many others.
I am a disbeliever of church dogma, but I do not call myself an atheist. Arguing over the existence of “God” is a boring, dead end street because no one can define or understand God. A better term would be “The Great Unknown”.
Faith is Not a Source of Knowledge
A common characteristic of both theism and religion is their ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 11, 2018:
@Bobby9, @icolan some people who call themselves atheists believe in a materialist/reductionist model of reality. Their faith is that reality consists of what they perceive with their senses. Another common belief is that conscious awareness is caused by the firing of neurons in our brains. Neither of these beliefs holds up to scientific scrutiny.
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 11, 2018:
@Bobby9, @icolan some people who call themselves atheists believe in a materialist/reductionist model of reality. Their faith is that reality consists of what they perceive with their senses. Another common belief is that conscious awareness is caused by the firing of neurons in our brains. Neither of these beliefs holds up to scientific scrutiny.
Faith is Not a Source of Knowledge
A common characteristic of both theism and religion is their ...
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 9, 2018:
@icolan my dictionary has faith and trust as synonyms for one of the definitions. If you are talking about blind faith in some religious dogma, then I agree with you 100%
In addition, I think that often certain dogmas are associated with atheism also.
WilliamFleming comments on May 7, 2018:
Two points: I personally think that deep Spiritual awareness does not require belief. Many CHURCHES require belief, but that sort of belief is worthless. Comparing deep awe for the implications of existence with the scientific method is like comparing apples and oranges—they are two different ...
WilliamFleming replies on May 9, 2018:
@icolan my dictionary has faith and trust as synonyms for one of the definitions. If you are talking about blind faith in some religious dogma, then I agree with you 100%
In addition, I think that often certain dogmas are associated with atheism also.
"We advocate the atheistic philosophy because it is the only clear, consistent position which seems ...
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Most of the founders of modern physics were deeply religious in their own ways. If you define religion as a set of beliefs, then I am not religious either, but I think there is a deeper and more meaningful way of viewing religion.
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 22, 2018:
@GoldenDoll
They lived in the early part of the twentieth century, the time of my grandparents—things were not all that different. If you read what they had to say about religion you might be surprised.
Albert Einstein:
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."
“The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science."
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
Most of the founders of modern physics were deeply religious in their own ways. If you define religion as a set of beliefs, then I am not religious either, but I think there is a deeper and more meaningful way of viewing religion.
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 22, 2018:
@GoldenDoll
They lived in the early part of the twentieth century, the time of my grandparents—things were not all that different. If you read what they had to say about religion you might be surprised.
Albert Einstein:
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."
“The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science."
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
Atheism and mortality.
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
I’m not an atheist—not anything, but I feel that the sense of identity as an individual person is just an illusion to begin with. Also space, time and matter are illusions. The entire chain of organisms can be thought of as a single entity.
If you go into a forest you’ll see death and ...
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 21, 2018:
@NothinnXpreVails
Then in that case, maybe the correct term should be “unpersuaded” rather than “atheist”. You’d probably need some sort of qualifier to clarify which deist ideas you are unpersuaded about.
Isn’t saying that you do not believe in God logically equivalent to saying that there is no God? Maybe not, since the first statement is a statement about yourself, and the second is a bald faced universal declaration. Interesting thing to ponder.
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
I’m not an atheist—not anything, but I feel that the sense of identity as an individual person is just an illusion to begin with. Also space, time and matter are illusions. The entire chain of organisms can be thought of as a single entity.
If you go into a forest you’ll see death and ...
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 21, 2018:
@NothinnXpreVails
Then in that case, maybe the correct term should be “unpersuaded” rather than “atheist”. You’d probably need some sort of qualifier to clarify which deist ideas you are unpersuaded about.
Isn’t saying that you do not believe in God logically equivalent to saying that there is no God? Maybe not, since the first statement is a statement about yourself, and the second is a bald faced universal declaration. Interesting thing to ponder.
Atheism and mortality.
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
I’m not an atheist—not anything, but I feel that the sense of identity as an individual person is just an illusion to begin with. Also space, time and matter are illusions. The entire chain of organisms can be thought of as a single entity.
If you go into a forest you’ll see death and ...
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 21, 2018:
@NothinnXpreVails
Yes, various claims are made by different parties about the meaning of existence, reality, and conscious awareness. Whether made in the name of religion, science, philosophy, or whatever, no one really knows the answer. Words are just words. No need to believe or disbelieve
Some proposals are very interesting however.
Conscious Realism:
http://www.cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/ConsciousRealism2.pdf
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
I’m not an atheist—not anything, but I feel that the sense of identity as an individual person is just an illusion to begin with. Also space, time and matter are illusions. The entire chain of organisms can be thought of as a single entity.
If you go into a forest you’ll see death and ...
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 21, 2018:
@NothinnXpreVails
Yes, various claims are made by different parties about the meaning of existence, reality, and conscious awareness. Whether made in the name of religion, science, philosophy, or whatever, no one really knows the answer. Words are just words. No need to believe or disbelieve
Some proposals are very interesting however.
Conscious Realism:
http://www.cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/ConsciousRealism2.pdf
Atheism and mortality.
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
I’m not an atheist—not anything, but I feel that the sense of identity as an individual person is just an illusion to begin with. Also space, time and matter are illusions. The entire chain of organisms can be thought of as a single entity.
If you go into a forest you’ll see death and ...
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@NothinnXpreVails
I do not think that belief is very appropriate one way or the other. There is something poignant, startling, staggering, and awe-filling about the experience of conscious awareness.
WilliamFleming comments on Apr 20, 2018:
I’m not an atheist—not anything, but I feel that the sense of identity as an individual person is just an illusion to begin with. Also space, time and matter are illusions. The entire chain of organisms can be thought of as a single entity.
If you go into a forest you’ll see death and ...
WilliamFleming replies on Apr 20, 2018:
@NothinnXpreVails
I do not think that belief is very appropriate one way or the other. There is something poignant, startling, staggering, and awe-filling about the experience of conscious awareness.
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