The latest mass shooting in Jacksonville, Fl, was a terrible event.

jondspen comments on Aug 27, 2018:

I agree that we need a culture shift, b/c gun legislation isn't going to do it. We share nearly 2000 mile border with Mexico where guns are legal, and huge coastal areas on the east and west coast. Prohibition in the 1920s just empowered criminals and gave rise to the mafia. The War On Drugs in the 1980s just gave mid/south american cartels vast amounts of money and power. A prohibition on guns won't help much IMHO. From what I can tell, most of the proposed gun legislation wouldn't have made a difference in most of these shootings anyway. We have a serious mental health problem in the USA. People are depressed, suicidal, violent, tribal, and alone. We praise individuality and the entrepreneur, yet have millions with full time jobs that live below the poverty level b/c businesses can't pay a livable wage. We have a government mandated education-camp system that is falling behind the rest of industrialized nations, and is nothing more than a place for kids to get bullied (a.k.a, prision-lite). But hey, we have the biggest military in the world so we can maintain $2 gas! Go America!!!!

Just wondering, how many feel like I do.

jondspen comments on Aug 27, 2018:

Me too...didn't agree with his policies (I am assuming b/c he was republican, but I also don't like the democratic platform), but from what I could tell he was level headed, had integrity, and understood that compromise was a necessity in a country with so many different beliefs.

Think Socialist Programs Are UnAmerican?

jondspen comments on Aug 27, 2018:

Of course, if the government wasn't so anti-labor and in bed with corporations, people wouldn't need Social Security, Medicare, and could afford to put their kids in a private school where they actually learned stuff. But you're right. My bible thumper dad and step-mom are republicans, believe in small government, and protested when Tennessee was creating their scholarship lottery about 20 yrs ago b/c it was sinful gambling. BTW, he hasn't worked in 20 yrs (was stay at home-schooling dad) and now pulls in SS, she has her masters and works for the state as a prison school teacher, and my half sister went to school on that same lottery scholarship. Kinda hard to get behind small government when every cent coming into your household is the product of big government. I don't mind people standing up for their beliefs...just don't be a hypocrite about it. BTW...out of all mentioned, the local fire department may be the only one not completely mismanaged, bloated, inefficient, in serious decay, or worse, killing us via poison or as unarmed citizens with no repercussions. If you're argument was that moderate socialism in America can be productive and beneficial, you might want to rethink your examples.

Let me just say that Shooting people and killing them because you came in second place over a game ...

jondspen comments on Aug 27, 2018:

OMG...is that what prompted the shooting?!?! We really need to address the mental health problems in this country.

What's the big deal about Level 8?

jondspen comments on Aug 27, 2018:

Guess if you're a nudist then it really doesn't matter :)

My ex is trying to claim divorce costs from me, my solicitor and I are asking him to drop the claim ...

jondspen comments on Aug 27, 2018:

Here in the USA, filing for legal costs incurred is just part of it, but very very seldom are the other parties held responsible for anything other than their legal costs. It's just a game - nothing about being fair or reasonable. You ask for everything under the sun, then act with indignation when you have to compromise away things you didn't really care for or expect in the first place. Another reason why I think government has no need to be involved with who should marry whom. It's just a racket for the lawyers/judges to fleece the public.

What do you do on Sundays?

jondspen comments on Aug 26, 2018:

I watch The Atheist Experience, or enjoy the lack of crowds by getting out in the morning while all the bible thumpers are at church.

Buddhism, the Good and the Bad - Scientific American Blog Network

jondspen comments on Aug 26, 2018:

Atheism can be argued as anti-scientific or anti-intellectual since it avoids wrestling with big "why" questions. All it really addresses is the disbelief in the existence of deities. Now many atheist may believe in the scientific method (most do) and logic/reason, but by strict definition it only deals with the question of supernatural gods. Seems the article critiques Theravada or Mahayana (or their offshoots) approach to Buddhism, but attributes the deceit and deficits to "Western Buddhists". It has been my experience that W.B. don't follow the dogma of the old schools, and do concentrate more on their personal struggle with anger, desire, and how they individually affect the world. Some may even be defined Atheist Buddhist on evaluation of their belief system, denying reincarnation, and defining karma as nothing more than the logical conclusion that if you live in a community and do bad stuff, the people there are going to know you as a bad person and treat you in kind. Given the above, I think this article is disingenuous.

How about raising the age to buy firearms?

jondspen comments on Aug 26, 2018:

How about raising the age to go to war and die? Seems pretty stupid you can be a parent of a 3 year old (or maybe older depending on your state's age of consent laws), have went to war and come back with sever emotional and physical traumas, but you're not considered mature enough to handle alcohol. How about government protecting our children in these government mandated education camps? How about school admins take action against bullying students. How about instead of us spending over 50% of our budget on military and a foreign policy that does more harm than good, we up an percent or two to educating and protecting our kids at home? Or maybe even tackling our mental health problem in this country? I think there are a lot of other things we can do that would have better and immediate results instead of spinning our wheels on gun legislation,esp. since most of what has been proposed wouldn't have made any difference in the shooting sprees that have happened in the past few years anyway. I truly fear our government more than I do a random mentally disturbed person shooting or stabbing me.

Where are all the evangelicals support for the homeless and those less fortunate than ...

jondspen comments on Aug 25, 2018:

Regardless if you are for or against, I find it amazing that those most vocal about illegal aliens, sanctaury cities, and have no problem ripping apart families and scarring children are typically bible thumping christians who seem to never have hear of NIV Luke 3:11, "Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same."

Tomorrow’s Sunday Morning Bible Lesson.

jondspen comments on Aug 25, 2018:

You had better wear a rain coat and galoshes, b/c when the Christian's head explodes, you're gonna wish you had them on.

The Original Double Slit Experiment - YouTube

jondspen comments on Aug 25, 2018:

Dr. Dean Radin did an experiment on the effect of consciousness in the double split experiment. I know this is an atheist/agnostic site, but I do believe there are things in the "supernatural" realm today that will be explained and proven as true in the future.

I am going to miss John McCain so damn much.

jondspen comments on Aug 25, 2018:

I agree. I don't agree with his platform or politics all the time, but he is probably the only person in government I have any respect for. I've always felt regardless of ideas, he consistently served with integrity. Best wishes to him going forward and also to his family.

I'm disgusted... Video shows Houston security guard ignoring police officers’ pleas for help

jondspen comments on Aug 25, 2018:

Well since the supreme court said cops don't have to come to your aid... Might not be right, but cops are reaping the rewards for their assholeness over the past 20-30 years. Wasn't this bad before....I seem to remember relationships with the community start going down hill in the 80's with the "War on Drugs". Wars are shitty things...probably wasn't a good way to tackle the problem by casting it in this kind of light.

This food truck was stranded on the 105 Freeway after a fiery crash closed all lanes.

jondspen comments on Aug 25, 2018:

Lol...makes perfect sense to me...and how convenient for all. btw...any word on the people in the crash? Hope they are ok...

This is the response I got from one of my state senators when I wrote regarding 45's crimes and lack...

jondspen comments on Aug 24, 2018:

Actually the American people didn't vote him in, it was antiquated process involving the electoral college.

Ok so what’s everyone doing tonight? I’m home making a low carb version of “spaghetti”.

jondspen comments on Aug 24, 2018:

I'm baby sitting the grand-daughter. It's a Cat In The Hat marathon on PBS tonight!!! lol

Depression doesn't define my life, but it's something I deal with.

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

Life is hard, and most of the time kinda sucks, but your bio says you just got over an illness. Hope the fear of the unknown doesn't overpower the excitement and possibilities of the unknown. Good luck and best wishes to you!

Is Sessions growing a spine? At loooonnngg last?

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

He's only growning what the Republican party says he can grow, and they are taking their orders from the corporate cabal.

Rambling's of a mad woman (warning, LONG)

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

That's funny, I though Jesus preached about letting go of the riches of this world, wandered around in poverty, and never owned a home. Guess it's another one of those, "You don't understand (our hypocrisy) b/c you don't have faith" things.

'In God We Trust' now must be displayed in all Florida schools - wptv.com

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

Same here in Tennessee. Would like to see how much that trust helps these kids out when they can't get a job b/c the education they received was crap compared to the EU or Asia....or when they are bullied at school...or when they are killed b/c another school attack claims more lives. But hey, we got a F-ing plaque that says we trust god to make everything a-ok, just keep drinking the kool-aid.

Proof of no god?

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

It's the same proof that there are no unicorns, leprechauns, fairies, etc., which is the lack of ANY evidence they exist or influence the physical world in any way. Do you feel the same about these mythical creatures as you do about 'gods'?

Should prostitution be illegal?

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

I voted other b/c I don't think the government has a right to stick their nose into a relationship between two people, be they a woman and her john, an inter-racial married couple, a hetro-couple, gay couple, etc. IMHO saying the government should legalize it is implying they have a right to dictate it in the first place.

Prayers at meetings

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

To OP: unfortunately it sounds like you need to just move on. I miss some of the people from my old church, but then again when I became atheist, they didn't seem to care or still continue a relationship. That hurt to realize these people I considered friends did not feel the same toward me, but I moved on and learned to only value relationships that have merit and real value. Much like spring cleaning the house, pain in the ass while you're doing it, but you feel so much better and enjoy your home much more after.

I am new to this site, so this may be an old and common question, but here goes.

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

I wish I was, but sorry, no. Grew up in the south, and religion is like...well...a religion down here. Trust me, you didn't miss out on anything, other than self-loathing, guilt, and years of depression.

Twenty-two states ask U.S. appeals court to reinstate 'net neutrality' rules

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

Government can't (legally at least) limit free speech, so they pressure corporations to do it for them. USA is getting to a breaking point I'm afraid.

"It's not what I say, it's what the Bible says."

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

I typically pull out do you agree with slavery, genocide, raping young girls, stoning people, etc.? These are things the bible is ok with, so you should support them 100%.

Well I went to the barber shop there was several people in there.

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

I agree. I don't mind discussing my disbelief, but I don't go around preaching ANY gospel anymore. I wasn't over the top when I was religious, but I seized any opportunity to share my faith, b/c that's what I was taught you were suppose to do. Now I look back and realize how intrusive and obnoxious I may have seemed to some.

What if you are wrong and there IS a god

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

Just b/c I end up being wrong, doesn't necessarily mean that Christians got it right. What if the Jews are right, Jesus is a phony, not the Messiah...and Yahweh sends you to hell for worshiping a false god? What if the Muslims are right, still the same god of Abraham, Issac, and Joshua...but you worshiped Jesus, so to the eternal human BBQ for you! What if there is a god who's named Odin, or Zeus, or Osiris? How do you know Protestant Christianity is right and not Orthodox, Catholic, Restorationism or Nontrinitarianism (Mormon or Jehovah Witness)? How do you know there is a god and ALL our religions didn't get it completely wrong? Even if some proof of a god can be provided, there is still a huge burden of proof left to be addressed that your interpretation is 100% correct and infallible to 1) prove he/she/it made a hell and 2) what do I have to do to avoid it. Following your religion just because mommy and daddy told you too, when you have never practiced any others to see if they better miracles and revelations, isn't just putting all your eggs in one basket. It seeing the other baskets, and without any reasoning or experimentation, determining they won't hold your eggs b/c they aren't real baskets to begin with. Although I must say, most religious people I meet are 100% basket cases! :)

So, I'm getting off my butt and volunteering for a candidate running for Congress in my district.

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

I disagree...just being a member of a political organization doesn't make one qualified for the office, nor the best candidate. I do applaud you though for getting involved, and hope that you keep it up. Please stay involved and continue to hold the elected official accountable throughout the term, not just voting them in and then trusting them to do the right thing.

Are you an open or closet agnostic/atheist, and why?

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

Very open. Why - because I believe in integrity and being honest about who I am and what I believe. I don't go around preaching the gospel of it though. Did that when I was a Christian, and vowed never to make the same mistake twice.

Should public nudity be legal?

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

I wouldn't want someones dingle dangle and pubs around my burger and fries, but at beaches or such I don't see a problem with it. Yes, you do have those that abuse it, and per typical government SOP, instead of dealing with the individual, you make policy for all because of the 1% that cause a problem. Honestly, most places it wouldn't make sense, just for hygienic reasons (ballpark or Mcdonalds, I don't want your scrotum sweat on the seat I'm about to sit in)! My Jehovah Witness daughter (raised in south US and went to Protestant church with me b4 I became atheist) just went to Jamaica. She was telling me (and I could hear the surprise and disbelief) about a 10 y/o girl she saw topless. I've spent time overseas, so I'm use to experiencing those kind of cultural differences. The girl was at a waterfall with her family. I told her yea, other than muslim countries, most of the world isn't as uptight or hypocritical about nudity as the US is. Plus, she was 10 years old, not like she was a sexualized being anyway (although US media sexualizes everything, including kids - just watch tween disney programs). It seemed she just couldn't get her head wrapped around that concept. But then again she is 24, and thinks she's got it all figured out how the world is 'suppose' to be now that she's an adult.

Would the World Be Better Off Without Religion? A Skeptic’s Guide to the Debate - CSI

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

Honestly, if it wasn't religion, it would be something else. Race, political affiliation, cultural identity, nationalism. We are a tribal creature, religion is just one way to draw tribal lines.

Episode 3 of "Stupid things Christians say to me" A coworker and I were discussing the ...

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

I wouldn't advise getting into it at work, but just watched Matt Dillahunty on "Atheist Experience" give an excellent response to this. Essentially, it was, why do you have to have faith? In the OT, Yahweh showed himself, both physically to some, and by signs and miracles to the masses. He even hardend Pharos heart so he could 1) subjugate free will and 2) show off his awesome powers of blights. So why did the playbook change? Why was it ok to not rely on faith then, but now it's required? The woman who called in was quiet for about 5 seconds and finally responded with something along the lines of, "Hmmm, that's a good question. I don't know." LOL - yea, one of the main tenants of your religion and you never thought to examine the logic behind the beliefs. Honestly, not surprising though... I think he later started talking about the hypothetical Hitler accepted Jesus right before dying, but a good person devoted their life to peace and helping others, yet Hitler gets to heaven and the good person goes to hell. Where is the logic, love, or justice in that? Again, you could actually hear the rusted gears in her head trying to turn!

YouTube Punishes Atheist for Exposing Christian Who Wants Gay People Executed – Friendly Atheist

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

While I don't agree with what Alex Jones says on InfoWars, this kind of stuff is no surprise anymore. Gov isn't suppose to directly limit your free speech rights (although they do from time to time), so they threaten private corporations with legislation if they don't suppress it for them. That way they get what they want, but can claim ignorance, innocence, and outrage.

A New Day - TheHumanist.com

jondspen comments on Aug 23, 2018:

What?!? The American prison system is F-ed up and in serious need of reform? Sorry...this isn't news, it's just olds!

Atheist Business Owner in The Bible Belt

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

You're religion, or lack there-of is none of their business. I wouldn't outright lie about it, as that could bite you in the ass (i.e., you are not considered honest and trustworthy), but just because someone assumes something about you, that's on them. And as a side note, would the service you provide or they expected be any different if you were Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Satanist, Atheist? If no, then as far as your business goes...it doesn't matter. Finally, just did a search for Harrison Arkansas on google, and the auto fill first choice was "Harrison Arkansas KKK Headquarters". In a town of "Christians" that would allow that kind of hate group to be headquartered...I wouldn't give a rats ass about what they thought, assumed, or believed. You're personal life and beliefs are just that, personal.

Are we living in an era of "post-truth" ?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I agree with others; the lies and propaganda isn't new...but we live in an age where people are overwhelmed with information. They are also completely unprepared, via the government sanctioned (lack of) education camps, to exercise critical thinking and logic. On top of that, you (and now your spouse too) come home exhausted, because you work more hours than any other person in other industrialized nations. Also, unlike 50-70 yrs ago, it now takes you both working to make ends meet, so you come home and have to deal with all the house stuff that before one spouse was able to handle. So with all the above, you're now inundated with so much data from so many sources, after putting in a full day at one job and more at your part time "home" job, it's no wonder people have problems trying to process it all. Thus the perfect fertile mental pasture to take short cuts in reasoning. It's always been around, but I would argue it's never been as easy to dupe people. On the other hand , it's also never been as easy for a person to do the research themselves and figure this out. But again, based on what a family has to do to make it today....most adults just don't feel they have the time or energy to figure out the BS from the facts, much less properly interpret those facts and make logical, coherent conclusions.

Have you ever been in a newspaper story?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I wrote an Op-Ed to the college paper against the idea of invading Iraq prior to us going in. Disabled vet, 6 yrs in the Marine Corps, so not like I'm a liberal or anti-military, just my time in Somalia woke me up to what war was about...and that wasn't even a war! Of course post 9-11, you couldn't reason or argue with people...even on a college campus, the need to deepen the Bush family oil pockets was just too important - oh...and and getting rid of Saddam who masterminded the 9-11 attack with his WMDs, yea, yea...that too. The war fever was like a religion at that time...and unfortunately not much has changed.

For those of us who live in the thick of it.

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Assembly of God - they are essentially Pentecostals that don't wear denim all the time.

God, mental disorder ?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

According to courts, it's perfect sanity, but only because the person believes in it. That was the argument given to debunk Pastafarianism as a religion, cause while you believe in an imaginary friend in some other dimension that is one god but in three parts, where one is a son but no mother (im talking pre-earth visit savior), and then came to earth to sacrifice yourself to yourself to create a loophole for rules yourself made...believing in a spaghetti monster is just absurd. But of course Schizophrenia is obviously not a religion, since they really believe it , but that is obviously just crazy talk. I wonder what cracker jack box that judge got his credentials from?

What did you learn today? (I learned not to eat salmon that's been in the fridge too long)

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Using Duolingo to learn spanish. Did you know the word dress (el vestido) in spanish is a masculine word? That makes a lot of F-ing sense, huh?

Which do you like better, Star Wars or Star Trek? Why?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I think the question should be qualified as pre/post TLJ. After that cluster fuk of a movie, Star Trek it is...although some of the Trek TV shows were pretty bad. I think Sci-Fiction is cool, but I've always leaned more to Sci-Fantasy. BTW...why isn't Buck Rogers in the mix. Is it b/c Twiki is about as popular as Jar Jar?!?

I've always argued against the biggest islamic claim that the Quran is somehow unaltered since it ...

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

What?!? You mean people make shit up to accommodate their desires and fears? Say it ain't so!!!

Poll.

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I have heard about her 'compassion' for those suffering. Don't know how much is true, but knowing religions and governments, seems the ends justifies the means. Funny how she would let these people suffer in their pain, but when her end was approaching, she moved to a more industrialized area to received top-notch health care. I wasn't there, nor do I know any first hand accounts, but given current priests record of child molestation and abuse...would anyone be surprised she was fast tracked to sainthood?

Just wanted to say hello! Hello! 😊

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Heya back at'cha!

Do you ever miss the religious life?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I miss the friendships...but then again, once I became an atheist...those 'friends' disappeared, so guess they weren't really friends to begin with. Overall, no. I don't miss feeling like I was not worthy of love. I don't miss feeling guilty about nearly every part of my life. And I definitely don't miss the programmed self-loathing you must have to be a good Christian. It was hard changing my beliefs after such zeal for such a long time, but the emotional weight off my shoulders was almost immediate and so liberating.

Dating after 50

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Lmao And you must be in a better part of the US than I have been. Tennessee and Texas mostly, so back that date up a couple of decades.

What is your response when people threaten you with religious punishments? (i.e. Hell/Jahannam)

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I ask them what religion they believe, then with that I ask them how much time they spent following other religions (Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindi, etc). When they say they have never practiced another religion, I ask them how much arrogance you have to know you got the right one on the first try out of the 3 thousand+ others that have existed over the years. Then when they say "I just know"...I reply back that "I'm not going to hell, because I just know!" Love seeing the confusion on their faces as their jaw just sit there on the floor and that deer in headlights look glazes over their eyes!

How do you respond to religious conversation?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I put Intrigue, but my answer would be "Engage in conversation". I actually filled in as youth pastor one summer for our Teen Ministry, and is what lead me to research (b/c I didn't want to mis-represent anything) and eventually walk away from my faith. I really do enjoy talking to Christians about their faith, b/c I have read/studied the bible, researched the history of early christianity and how the church today came about, and am able to quote back scripture to them that undermines their beliefs. First - it gets them to see how to use critical thinking skills to evaluate what they just accept as truth, and from their own "Moral Authority Guidebook. Second - shows them that I am not an evil Hitler-loving Nazi Satanist. My travels overseas in the Marine Corps taught me that once you start to understand the point of view of others, you see them just as a person who isn't really that different from yourself. That is the best weapon IMHO against small minded people, to plant seeds that will hopefully one day expand their minds.

I have a friend with a drinking problem.

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Well...I don't believe in going around snitching on people, but then again, I would feel bad if I did nothing and a friend ended up killing someone. Not as bad as they would, but still I would feel I was partly responsible. Are you an enabler? Do you host holiday parties where she comes over and gets drunk and then leaves DWI? I wouldn't condone or support it in anyway, but also realize that you can only do so much beyond your own interactions with her. Maybe a sit down, non-confrontational, but just voice your concerns about her health and future by engaging in this behavior. Also put in you're willingness to help her (if you are), say being a DD or a call up taxi from time to time to keep her off the road.

Weirdest food

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Squid chips and fish cheese. BTW...if you're ever in Japan or Okinawa, don't get anything out of a vending machine. :)

How do you address people that are acquaintances but you don't know their name?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I ask them their name. How hard is that?

I’ve been very involved in my local town hall.

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Well...from the brief google search I just did...you are both right. Seems the Supreme Court ruled about a decade ago that it was ok...but also ruled against schools organizing prayer type functions. Of course the Supreme Court upheld slavery at one time, and other injustices, that were only changed once people in general got their heads out of their colons. I don't give too much moral or justice credence to them. Seems they typically just rubber stamp whatever is in the governments interest at the time. I would do some research, possibly reach out to the ACLU or similar organizations to get knowledgeable legal input. I would also see about recruiting other religious organizations to come in and pray (wiccians, Jewish Rabbis, Native American Shamans, Satanists, etc). From what I can tell, they can do it, but can't only allow certain religions (Christians) while refusing others (Muslim Imans). On another note, how important is this issue to you. You might be right and get it blocked, but at what cost to your ability to chime in on other topics. While it shouldn't matter, we all know that if you raise a ruckus on this, all the Bibe-thumpers will ignore you on anything and everything else you might say going forward.

I don't think any nation through the history has sufferd from religion than we are doing in Iran.

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I went to grad school with a woman from Iran. Much like Americans...she loved her country but hated the abuse and idiocracy of its government. Get religion out of the way, and it becomes easier to see that most people in the world just want to live life and love their family. I hope both our countries wake up soon and start moving more to this.

I have a master's degree I was born to my parents, in an apartment, in Tacoma, WA.

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

Good for you trying to overcome the real demons of your past. Wishing you luck and strength in your journey!

Is there such a thing as "cultural theft"?

jondspen comments on Aug 22, 2018:

I don't believe there is such a thing as "cultural theft" or "cultural appropriation". Culture as defined by Wikipedia is "...the social behavior and norms found in human societies. " Societies are not static. Ideas and beliefs change, on a wide range of items. Sometimes someone else builds a better mouse trap, and then people recognize it's a better way, so they adopt it. Now that is not to say that people don't adopt styles, attitudes, language, etc., and do not respect the original value or importance of the thing, or give credit to the original group. Very seldom have I seen it done with "the intent to deprive the lawful owner of it" (theft definition at wikipedia). I can understand Native Americans, Blacks, Polynesian, etc. being upset at their culture being misrepresented by blatant greedy capitalist companies to make a buck, but that is a separate issue. I think the problem comes when it is not done out of respect, but only for personal gains or outright disrespect. As far as disrespect, that is another tough problem since it's near impossible to gauge someone's intent.