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Islam - The Three Stages of Jihad

All the nonbeliever needs to know about Islam. It is no more a religion of peace than any other Judeo/Xian sect. They just developed a "stealth plan" early on for the destruction and assimilation of other cultures.

This is one of the few issues I vehemently disagree with Obama on. He demonstrated either his utter misunderstanding of the Quran or...I don't even want to consider the alternatives

By DangerDave8
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I can understand with us here having no means of defense, it would be an easy means to seize control, but the "Mudslimes" are trying to be elected in to positions of power,slowly changing perceptions,soon as in England(if not already here) muslim operated "No Go Zones" may be setting up in some areas, the muslims are posting on peoples doors to keep their Dogs inside, as to the muslims, Dogs are unclean,expect Dog poisoning or worse from the muslims..........

Mike1947 Level 7 Sep 12, 2018
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The entire video in a nutshell!

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Islam (like every religion) will be understood at the same level of understanding as its followers. If its followers are sophisticated they will be drawn to the more peaceful components of its doctrine. If the follower is unsophisticated and exhibit tribal, fear based ignorance then they will be drawn to those texts. Christianity and Judaism offer the same opportunities. This is why within the same Christian label you see various levels of sophistication. The relatively unsophisticated Evangelical sect is very different from the Prosperity Gospel of Joel Osteen and others, for example. Even among the "Spiritual Non-Religious" there are various levels of sophistication. The magical "Light Healers" are currently striving to push a hurricane out to sea with their accumulated prayers (so I guess FEMA can relax). So the problem is with the ignorance level of a society not the religious or spiritual regime they identify with. If religions didn't exist people would replace them with other tribal identifications. Nationalism or Racial Superiority are two of the most obvious. Of course we all know that the content of one's character should be the only real measure of a persons worth, but its much easier to claim superiority due to religious belief, racial makeup, or geographic inhabitance.

These are simply some typical replies of the "moderates" of all judeo/xian islamic faiths. Excuses but no apologies and definitely no solutions. "Boys will be boys", right?

Yes, there are other negative tribal identifications. Our very survival as a species very likely depends on dealing with those as well.

@DangerDave The thing is Dave, the people who we often find criticizing various religious and ethnic groups also exhibit the same base level of consciousness as the people they are critical of. So while their criticism of these groups may be accurate, they fail to recognize their own short comings. More importantly, because they fail to demonstrate a higher level of thought, they are incapable of providing a good example for less sophisticated people to follow or learn from. The result is an increase in fear, ignorance and hatred rather than a lessoning of these factors. Reduction of fear, ignorance and the resulting hatred of the "other" is the only thing that will ensure the survival of our species.

Good luck with that. It offers no solution to the problems presented by extremists of all ideologies.

I personally think our best bet is "lessoning" them that their beliefs are BS but, being a Seminarian, you yourself are already fully indoctrinated too.

@DangerDave Indoctrination can occur with any belief system. I would point out that within any religious group their are many different theologies. Secular groups are the same way. The answer to your question is that we must provide good examples and logical arguments along with education and hope for a better future in order to eliminate religious extremism. Not exhibit the same behavior from a secular point of view and practicing bigotry or racism toward those less evolved. My Seminary is very open to science and differing theology. We even accept the atheist theology, as long as it works for its followers. Who are we do judge what belief works for others as long as it is benign to its non-believers. I accept your point though that many religious people allow their beliefs to effect others negatively. That is always wrong.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

Unless you're going to selectively go through the "holie" texts of these religions and remove EVERY verse that describes how and why we should kill or vilify any unbelievers/heretics/infidels/heathens...then your methods are doomed to failure...but why propagate the lies?

It is neither bigotry or racism to flatly tell someone their belief system is based on nonsense perpetrated by the power hungry and/or mentally ill.

Instead of perpetuating the lies we definitely need to facilitate more moments like this one.

@DangerDave Agreed, but the way you accomplish that is not by villainization or condescension. Once again the texts were written to reflect the society at the time they were written. Every religion also contains within it a benign mystical translation, which should be promoted. Sufiism is that sect within Islam. While it may never become the dominant version, elements can eventually infiltrate the majority view. Historically ask any Jew which ancient culture was more accepting Christianity or Islam and they will tell you it was Islam and it wasn't even close. This destroys the original argument of the first video, The modern hatred between the two groups is economically driven.

Nothing in that statement negates the simple fact Mohammed was (at least in part) "economically motivated" in planning the 3 stage takeover of Mecca.

Also, the very idea that the few random "fluffy verses" in all of the aforementioned hate filled "holie" texts are worthy of any support from any sane individual is ludicrous. Lies are lies, and the lies meant to instill hate are the worst of all.

Think and do what you will but if you feel you can somehow "soften" the judeo/xian/muslim religions without completely editing their "holy books" I see no hope whatsoever for your cause.

@DangerDave I agree that the actual history of Mohammed was violent. I would only support the violent text in that it shows a past stage of human conscious evolution. (The Warrior Stage) I would not encourage using it as an example of model behavior. The Jews today never say the story of Joshua is an example of how to live. In Joshua's case archeologists today know the story didn't happen. It is better seen as an allegory for the violent nature of the creation of the universe (just like the older stories which featured the slaying of behemoths, leviathan etc.) To read these texts as literal is as Bishop John Spong says a heresy and they should not be taught that way (the problem is they still are). Of course to regard a scripture as holy means you should not edit the actual text, there has been too much of that already to the detriment of everyone. The Noah story, for example, is one of the bible's oldest allegories and does emphasize a brotherhood among all humans. Too bad that is never the feature of the story people remember. The problem is the way it is taught. Holy Scriptures are hate filled and violent because that is how people act. If taught correctly, these texts also provide a remedy using the most effective means, through story telling and provocative discussion.

So long as these passages are in these texts they will be taught and taken literally (as they were meant to be) by too many. Even if they were completely removed, the fallacy of "believers are better" would still remain.

@DangerDave Yes but that's illogical isn't it. Forced conversions are even more illogical yet Fundys would still force their beliefs on us through legislation. Dumbest thing they could ever do. Updated morality tales are probably a more effective way of teaching values today. I really like the Pastafarian message. Very relatable.

I appreciate the works of the Pastafarians. I'm a Dudeist myself...I just found it more relatable. I may have to give up my ordination in Jediism. It's actually becoming a religion for too many.

Likewise Spiritual Humanism, which seeks to unify religions. I can disagree, which is accepted, but the problem with them is, like the Universalists, this unification makes them very susceptible to the dogmas they seek to unite.

Whatever we can do to progress humanity beyond the need for dogma, even among atheists, is our only hope for our survival as as species in my (not always humble) opinion.

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Well christians come from a peaceful prophet which is tons better than a warlord sex addict prophet. I choose christian neighbors over islamic ones any day.

Not really. Xians have their share of extremists, though in Murica they tend more toward supporting corrupt politicians who will legistrate their dogmatic agendas for them.

In case you felt I'd left them out: [agnostic.com]

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Can you imagine how inflammatory it would have been for him to stand on a podium and denounce Islam? The idea is to calm things down. Unlike the current POS POTUS

I take issue that he felt a need to mention it at all, especially since he failed to mention the dark side of Islam.

Conversely though, to mention the dark side of xianty would be political suicide in this country.

Agreed, Obama was is a tight spot. But to think he wasn't aware, as even then we were witnessing the assimilation of Europe, is truly beyond belief.

He didn't have to go out of his way to defend it as much as he did. I respect Obama in other areas, but saying "The future must not belong to those who would slander the prophet of Islam" is a bit alarming. That and the fact that he considered the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group which has been trying to achieve stealth theocracy for 100 years, "a friend and ally."

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