Agnostic.com
7 3

This is an interesting read for the newcomer and other atheists concerning AA's (and NA, CA, etc.) principles.
It's horrifying that so many of us in recovery are subjected and coerced into that organization. How it's "suggested" we follow it or else.....
Yea there's other groups out there, but no where near me... only online.

"Twelve-Step Groups as Religious Organizations"

[atheisticaa.com]

anthonyco 5 June 1
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I don't think I 'boasted' about anything, simply stated that AA, with it's talk of a higher power, saved my life. I battled with the God word, and all the othe religious type writing, but remembering the book was written in 1935, in America, and I lesrned to 'take what i liked and leave the rest. Having said that the 12 steps in all their entirety were a must for me, to be broken of ego and false thinking. There is nothing scary there. The 5th step states admitted to God, ,(or superman or your dog), yourself and another human being the exact nature of your wrongs. This is after a longvand deliberative look at just how you got into the position you are now in. It"s not quick, or easy, but the relief to start with a clean slate cannot be comprehended easily. All this is followed up with daily inventory, making of amends and service work. It can be hard to get past the word god, and the religious type undertones, but i was fighting for my life, rock bottom, as are most who walk through the doors of a twelve step program.

Jandii Level 4 Aug 7, 2018
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I feel the need to say something here. I'm a recovering addict/alcoholic with over 20 years sobriety. It took me 5 years to get & stay clean whilst i was busy battling with the semantics of the 12 step program. The 'big book' is written in such a way as to offend anyone looking for something to be offended by, looking for a way out; but go beyond the old-fashioned language and it is a brilliant piece of writing. People don't generally come into the rooms with fully functioning reasoning powers, ie most of us are 'a little bit insane' (something else to be offended by). But think on this: Where has your best thinking got you so far? A 12 step program saved my life. It may just save yours.

Jandii Level 4 June 8, 2018

Hi. Good for you on your 20 years. Yes, I get that we come into the program in a distorted state of mind. Been there.... As far as "your best thinking" goes- well that's pure AA dogma right there. Heard that numerous times from AA fundamentalist, The BB thumpers who like to spew all the one-liners and slogans to those fresh out of rehab.
Since you boast about 12 step faith healing programs, why not shed some light on exactly how You did it???? Did you follow any secular AA programs? Did you read up on any programs outside the AA indoctrination such as CBT, the Sinclair method, SMART Recovery, the Freedom Model? Shed some light on the issue instead of just vaguely saying how a 12 step program saved your life......... This is an agnostic/atheist forum. C'mon now....

2

For me there’s enough secularity in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous for me to get sober. It says that I do not need to consider another’s conception of God (that includes the god of the big book, Bill W’s, and Dr. Bob’s). It says I get to choose what all of the spiritual terms and expressions in the book mean to me. So I did. I used to spend a lot of time arguing about God, decrying the inconsistencies in the book and the program and the fellowship around the idea of God, the hypocrisy and the out and out fraud of claiming not to be allied with any sect or denomination while reciting the only prayer in the Bible that is said to come directly from Jesus himself. I spent so much time arguing about it that I forgot I was supposed to be getting sane and sober!

I made a decision to stop worrying about it and practice the rest of the program as enthusiastically as I could. That was my step three. Steps four through nine is where it really came together for me - taking inventory and working through character defects and making amends. No God is required for any of it. I consider step 10 a continuation of practicing steps four through nine.

I have become knowledgeable enough about the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous to shut down anyone who tries to tell me I need their kind of God to work the steps. There are very few in my area who are as knowledgeable as I am. The ones that are know I’m working the steps as intended and have even recommended me as a sponsor to others.

Some meetings get tedious when people wax on about their higher power (which they choose to call God). I choose to look at that as an opportunity to practice love and tolerance of others. I have a reasonable rate of success in doing this.

Bikes4Fish Level 7 June 2, 2018

I hear ya. that's I look at the alternate steps to fill in the blanks of the god related parts.
Plus, if anyone gets uppity with me, I just remind them of tradition 3 - The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking. Bang. Shuts them down.
I crossed that line in a meeting last night when sharing. I told them straight out that I was an atheist, and at this point in the program I have adopted alternate steps, and rely on other recovery resources outside their program. I don't shutdown AA completely because I still feel the need for certain meetings. I just use the other resources in conjunction with their program.....
Oddly, most of them agreed with that, and accepted it. There's quite a few people at this particular meeting that are atheist/agnostics.

1

I loved 12 step meetings for many years and I now see I was indoctrinated. The 12 step program is just a liberal religion for people with mental issues.

SalC Level 6 June 2, 2018
1

SMART Recovery

JulianB Level 4 June 2, 2018

Yes. I've been looking into them more as well. Thank you.

1

Agree with pretty much everything in here but there is a way to work a 12-step program and separate all the christianity. I don't surrender to a higher power. I surrender to reality.

[agnostic.com]

There have been quite a few comments and posts here on us non-believers fitting into 12-step programs. I have been proselytized to more than once in a meeting but I have found quite a surprising amount of acceptance too. A few times I've even had some others interested in my non-belief. I'm in EA which sounds surprisingly different from AA and NA. My meetings feel more like a group therapy session than a religious ceremony. Also there is nothing inherently wrong with a ritual; as long as you recognize it as exactly that.

kmdskit3 Level 8 June 1, 2018

Yes. I remember seeing that previous post. Some good advice there.
I too have looked at the alternate steps, and some are quite fitting. I also have discovered some non-believers in the program, and we share ideas about this.
Surrender to reality -- exactly. I simply admit that, yes, I have a problem, and I will deal with it with the support of others.

This is one I like to browse as well: [aabeyondbelief.org]

@anthonyco I agree. Having others who are going through what you are for mutual support and guidance is so helpful.

@anthonyco Excellent link.

@kmdskit3 Glad you found it useful.

3

When I was pregnant with my son...his dad and I had broken up...I had no one, panicking and I needed to drink so I went to AA for support.. I argued with them....first time I talked. IF I WANTED TO HEAR ABOUT GOD Id GO DOWN TO THE REVIVAL AT THE CHURCH...I COME TO STAY SOBER. I was rude and ugly....then I used a rock for higher power....lol....at any rate stayed sober and had a big old beautiful boy.....

Wezzy Level 4 June 1, 2018

Glad that worked out for you. I mean for some people it works. More power to them if that's what they want.
That's just it - many of us are scared and vulnerable in those 1st days of recovery, so we'll take anything. After awhile though I could see thru the bs.... I'll still go here and there for the social aspect, and to keep me away from drinking... I simply ignore the whole religious undertone there.

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