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What would it matter if realization was preconscious?

The autonomic nervous system acknowledges and reacts milliseconds before the conscious mind. Perceptual experience renders this simultaneous. This suggests an evolutionarily derived predisposition to perceptual lag.

surrealhoax 7 Dec 26
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That is like Sam Harris's argument against Free Will. Hard to argue with science...

racocn8 Level 9 Dec 26, 2021

Right, I think I just need to go on Google Scholar to see if this has already been researched.

Er, not as much. To claim there's an evolutionarily derived predisposition to such a lag assumes there were organisms that didn't have said lag. Without such a lag, it would be possible for those organisms to have free will...

@surrealhoax @jeffMurray Harris's argument is that the decision-making occurs and can be detected in the lower parts of the brain, before the "self-aware" part is conscious of said decision. All this assumes that Free Will resides in the frontal cortex. Maybe that assumption is right and maybe not. Maybe Free Will needs more definition or is a total misnomer.

@racocn8 I am very aware of Harris' argument, however I do not think it is a simple assumption that free will requires origination in conscious thought.

@JeffMurray Where is free will if it is not within the purview and control of consciousness?

@racocn8 @JeffMurray I don't think that this would negate free will, necessarily. I understand the argument, but I also see that free will is an ongoing process rather than a single event.

@racocn8 My point exactly. I don't think that's just something he assumes. I think he lays out a very clear argument why that must necessarily be the case.

@surrealhoax How exactly is a singular choice an ongoing process?

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Word Salad if i ever saw it.

AnneWimsey Level 9 Dec 26, 2021
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It only suggests that if there was ever also organisms that didn't have said lag, no?

Yeah, and how to study that is a totally different issue.

@surrealhoax But your statement assumes it's already known that there was organisms without said lag. There are huge implications to such an assumption.

You don't think it would sound as though I'm assuming there were ancestors of homo sapiens that had 6 fingers if I said humans had an evolutionarily derived predisposition to 5 fingers instead of 6?

@JeffMurray I see what you mean. I think that I made my assumption without proper reading on the theory and evidence. I will admit some obvious ignorance on this point, so if you do have any reading to suggest I could dig in.

@surrealhoax On free will in general, or on your statement about lag specifically?

@JeffMurray I made an assumption about lag. I will also admit that I did not especially mean to implicate free will, but your inclusion of it as a potential implication complicated my understanding.

@surrealhoax Either way, I'd be happy to help you find what you're looking for or share my understanding of it as a sort of TLDR situation, but currently, I'm not exactly sure what it is you want more information on.

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At the moment we simply do not know. It may even be different for male and female brains.

Sofabeast Level 7 Dec 26, 2021

The amount of lag? If lag exists or not in one? Very curious what your comment is referring to.

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