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Political criticisms and calling out hypocrisy:

I'm not only an atheist, but I don't buy into at least some of what are held up as basic Christian concepts around morality and social ethics.

This means that when I run across a seemingly slam-dunk criticism of some political figure based on how their behavior is in stark conflict with their implicit or explicit adherence to Christian or Judaeo-Christian principles, I can't really get involved with or buy into that criticism.

I'm wondering if others here have thoughts on this.

kmaz 7 Oct 19
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Given the facts on the ground, this is the absolute epitome of cynical hypocrisy.

Google, "Ahed Tamimi"

“Justice, justice you shall pursue.”

These simple words from the Torah were radical: in a time when power was wielded through the sword and by wealth, the idea that justice should be the ultimate goal of every person and the worthiest form of power was bold and new. It goes to the essence of what civilisation is: without justice we cannot thrive or be considered civilised.

Antisemitism is known as “the oldest hatred.” It is no mere prejudice; it endures because it is an ideology. It presents itself as a form of justice. Whereas other forms of racism slur their victims to diminish them, antisemitism does the opposite. Jews are presented as conniving, corrupting, parasites who wield immense power to the detriment of society. Antisemites present themselves as agents of justice, freeing mankind from Jewish dominance.

Like all ideologies, antisemitism has its own antibodies. Every Jewish contribution to society is cast as a bid for power. Every person who does not adopt antisemitism is dismissed as weak and blind. Every opponent of antisemitism is discredited as being part of a Jewish conspiracy or in the of Jews. Call an antisemite antisemitic and they will insist that you are smearing them to stop them exposing Jewish power.

The struggle against antisemitism is not just the pursuit of justice; it is the struggle to define justice itself. Will society see “justice” as the protector of the few against the many, or will subverted “justice” be the mechanism by which the few are persecuted and the many corrupted?

History’s golden ages have been times when “justice” has been the guarantor of equality and freedom, and history’s darkest ages have been those times when “justice” was subverted. One need not look back far to see the part that antisemitism has played in perverting justice and society.

Antisemitism never sleeps. It is powerful again and unraveling the fringes of society, seeping into the mainstream. It is our duty as individuals to ensure that justice prevails by reporting antisemitism and ensuring that the criminal justice system repels this disease that threatens society itself.

This guide has been prepared for Campaign Against Antisemitism by a team of eminent Queen’s Counsel so that you may personally play your part in the battle for justice. Should you need help or have questions, please contact us.

Already across Europe, antisemitism is reaching levels that have caused Jewish citizens to leave their countries. Jews have been sought out and murdered. The forces of justice have responded too late and inadequately. It must not be so in Britain.

Justice, justice, we must pursue.

Gideon Falter
Chairman

Campaign Against Antisemitism is a volunteer-led charity dedicated to exposing and countering antisemitism through education and zero-tolerance enforcement of the law.
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BitinDawg Level 4 Mar 9, 2019

Hi -
Are you pasting this from someplace else? If so, please provide a link (not just to the site, but to the exact source of the paragraphs)

Or, have you written these points out extemporaneously and are signing this yourself as Gideon Falter the author of these points? If so, I want to say basically what you've done is post write out a semi-unintelligible somewhat-irrelevant mess on someone else's thread. Normally I think most of us would not comment, but it's my thread, and I cared about my original point (that you have basically not addressed) so I will just take the opportunity to reiterate, and better explain my own point:

Since I don't buy necessarily into Judaeo-Christian principles of what is good/not-good, this means for me when I see a public figure or elected official criticized for not engaging in personal or public qualities of charity/mercy/selflessness, then I don't necessarily agree that the criticism is relying on valid definitions of what is and is not good personal character. When I see someone criticized for their actions in office on the same grounds (failure to heed similar supposed virtues) I think the same. When I see them praised for what might be called Christian virtues, I am also sometimes not sure what to make of this.

As to hypocrisy, I guess one point I want to make here is that ultimately I'm not sure virtues and qualities of character that are often taken to be "Christian" are necessarily practicable by humans on Earth. I think ultimately people of integrity to their best human qualities will have difficulty living consistently practicing supposed Christian values and virtues.

Anyway, regarding BitinDawg's post, yes, questions of anti-semitism are somewhat worth discussing (though possibly not worth discussing if the conversation is not coherent and fairly well-reasoned), but may I suggest this topic have its own thread where BitinDawg can make more clear what he is trying to say, and what points are his, and what points are those of someone else?

I want to add, in reviewing, perhaps I was too harsh in my previous response. However, the introduction of the topic of anti-semitism, and with such harshness (in my opinion) on the part of that organization, seemed out of left field, and I am wary of where that organization is going with it, and (never having run into them before) of the way they have framed things.

@kmaz Surely antisemitism is a matter of the utmost importance. As it has and is roiling the U.S. Congress as we hunt and peck at our keyboards.
Though, I would think that antisemitism is or has actually become a euphemism that camouflages the real problem which is Jew hatred. Not so much in America, leaving out David Duke and his entourage. But, in the promised land itself.
Israel is a land that absolutely throbs with hatred. The Palestinians are so imbued with Jew hatred they attack Jews with any and everything that they can get their hands on.
Methinks we need to address the antisemitic trope that God did not give Palestine to the Jews. Manifestly that land belongs to the Jews. And they have nuclear weapons to back up their claim. Clearly the Jews were gifted that land by a divine entity that they call their God. And their God is the same one that Evangelical Christendom worships and gives allegiance to.
Jew hatred in Israel is so dangerously contagious that it even infects girls like Ahed Tamimi and even highly educated and intelligent Jews like Gideon Levy and Gilad Atzmon.

@kmaz Here is even more evidence of Jew hatred. The whole United nations would seem to be infected with it. Surely the world needs to address this. It is almost another holocaust in the making. [globalresearch.ca]

@BitinDawg
"...Surely antisemitism is a matter of the utmost importance...."

Thanks, but that wasn't the point, and never is going to be the point, in this thread. There are a lot of "important" topics, about a lot of things, and they do not just all generally apply to any discussion anywhere.

So, since it's a bit more clear now to me that your focus here is not relevant to the thread, I'll ask: Please stop commenting in this thread, as it seems clear from your posts that your points have nothing to do with my original intended topic, and I would prefer to receive either relevant thoughts on that topic, or nothing.

If you want to start a discussion of Jews, Israel and anti-semitism, I suggest you please do it somewhere else, such as in your own thread that you start on your own.

Thanks,

@kmaz KMAZ, my apologies. It appears that I have spooked you. Too bad, as a critical thinker, yours is the kind of opinion that I value the highest. But, I get your message, take your free thinking and put it under a blanket.
But, hey, yes, that is what I am trying to get too. Where are or how do our Christian or Judeo Christian ethics fit into or get actualized in the context of the USA as a super power steering and or exercising a veto in international politics. Are there lines? And or, where are they drawn?

@BitinDawg

You wrote: "...Where are or how do our Christian or Judeo Christian ethics fit into or get actualized in the context of the USA as a super power steering and or exercising a veto in international politics. Are there lines? And or, where are they drawn?"

So, my question is: What Christian or Judeo-Christian ethics? How do you know they are ethical and not objectively awful behavior?

In the comments in another thread I wrote:

"So, my question is: What Christian or Judeo-Christian ethics? How do you know they are ethical and not objectively awful behavior?"

I was re-reading this, and realized there is a slight chance it could be misinterpreted, so to try to ensure that it is understood, what I mean is: People throw around the concepts of Christian and Judeo-Christian morals and ethics and there seems to be (in many conversations) the idea that such definitions of morals and ethics should go unquestioned.... that if Christianity or Judaism or some other revered institution has labeled behavior as moral or immoral, good or bad, ethical or not ethical, then the label is not to be questioned.

I do think broad concepts of good/bad/morality/ethics are very important, but do not buy (for an instant) that we should accept at face value various specifics of how Abrahamic religion or other systems define something as good good/bad/moral/ethical.

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