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It's interesting to me that many "New Atheists" are happy to disregard the majoritarian authority of god-believers worldwide (some 80% of our species) on the question of God's existence, but rush to reinstate that majoritarian authority when considering the question of literalism vs. metaphoricalism. They are happy to support an elite minority position on the existence of a literal god (as am I) but seem mostly disinterested in acknowledging the value and historical standing of an elite, metaphorical interpretation of world scripture. The response I hear so often is "But an overwhelming majority of believers do take their scripture literally." Yes, they do, but does that give them authority?

There are some exceptions. Michael Shermer for example:

"They're making the mistake of linking their belief in faith, in their religion, to actual factual tenets. These are not factual stories to be taken as historical events, they're really stories about how we should live our lives. They're moral homilies. What can I personally get out of the Bible for me, today. That's what those stories are about. And to take them literally is; you're missing the point of the Bible!"

Other of the New Atheists, such as Dan Dennett and Sam Harris, have on occasion let slip the token acknowledgment that a metaphorical interpretation might be of some limited value, but continue to regularly refer to "religion" in a wholesale condemnatory way.

This inconsistency seems to me to be due to a tribal identity impulse that, unfortunately, resembles the tribal identity that likely drives the phenomenon they are trying to condemn. Maybe there is some justification for fighting fire with fire, but as the aphorism often attributed to Gandhi warns us, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

In the largest historical context, the insistence that the word "god" must refer to only a literal, sentient, all-powerful, creator-person is a view held more often by the majority - of both believers and atheists - than by the intellectual elite of either. This is why I don't identify as either a theist or an atheist; because a majority of both camps are literalists, and I am not.

When people ask, "But how do you know which parts are supposed to be literal and which parts are metaphorical?" my answer is, "Easy. It is ALL metaphor." Religion is Art, not History. The fact that art often includes, in its depictions, places and people, or things that happen to actually exist, in addition to imaginary things, does not mean we have to struggle to decipher which parts of the painting to take seriously and which parts we are free to ignore. It's ALL Art. It's ALL Metaphor. Metaphor does not equal "lie", or "unnecessarily decorative language". Metaphor is a symbolic, rather than literal, means of conveying truth.

Science tries to describe in the most literal way possible 'what is' in the objective sense. Religion tries to impart, with metaphor and allegory, what the human race has learned over the millennia about resolving our subjective conflicts. One of these subjective conflicts is our natural (understood by science) tendency toward tribal identity. Rational thought does not deny that humans are emotional creatures, and I will claim that the perceived conflict between science and religion is an emotional construct rather than a rational or historical analysis.

Theists and atheists who find themselves locked in disgust toward the 'other' camp are experiencing identity conflicts rather than soldiering for the truth. There is no substantive conflict inherent between fact-finding and peace-of-mind-finding. Believe science. Make peace.

skado 9 June 10
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1

There have always been, as least as long as there have been colleges and universites, many diverse ways of interpreting scripture.
[en.wikipedia.org]
The hangup on literalism is a relatively modern one that is apparently related, believe it or not, to the rise of science and technology which has a very literal worldview. I think it is a very valid point that literalism has contaminated both sides of the argument. However, in my experience most theists are usually not as literalistic as they are accused of being, but believe in a mix of metaphor, allegory, symbolism, and literalism. In a sense, they believe the bible is literal...until it is not.

Heraclitus Level 8 June 11, 2019

Yes, I think you’re right about most theists.

1

To paraphrase Dr. Samuel Johnson

the parts of the bible/religion that are good are not original, and the parts that are original are not good.

and that about encapsulates all I have to say about the points raised in your apologist post.

2

One of my favourite subjects! If viewed in the right way, much of the Bible is really underrated because of our hangup about literalism. The ancient people, and there were many, who wrote the Bible were just like us, just as smart, just as observant, and just as interested in truth as us. The same may be said for the authors of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Norse Sagas, the Vedas, and the Upanishads. They just lacked experience and technology, just as we do. It is also clear that most of the ancient languages were metaphorical and depended on pictographs. The one-to-one semantic correspondence we take for granted in modern European languages would be a great puzzle to these ancient peoples. Some modern languages are still that way, Arabic being one.
The Book of Genesis is worth a read with this in mind. If looked at metaphorically, it outlines with astonishing precision the whole history and prehistory of the human race all backed up by anthropology, paleontology, geology...

amymcmxcii Level 6 June 10, 2019

YES, YES, YES!!!

"The ancient people, and there were many, who wrote the Bible were just like us, just as smart, just as observant, and just as interested in truth as us."

Truer words were never spake. We tend to think of them as only partly human because they lived so long ago, but evolution doesn't do much in two thousand years. They were anatomically and cognitively modern humans. Put one of them in jeans and a T-shirt, give him a high school education, and we couldn't distinguish him from Joe the plumber next door. Their smartest were as brilliant as our smartest today. Language and cultural differences have obscured this fact to the casual observer. The ability to translate through those superficial differences opens a world of wisdom to us.

1

What a brilliant post, especially the references to tribalism. Very clever people passionately support their sports team. Totally irrational and un-Spocklike behaviour but it identifies our emotional and tribal nature.

I suggest the tribal collective is a deeply ingrained evolutionary and genetic trait. Ignore at our peril!

Geoffrey51 Level 8 June 10, 2019

Thank you, and yes, ignore at our own peril exactly. Without identity we don't know who or what we are. We will kill for it.

0

if there are some exceptions, why are you taking an exception to the exception you mentioned? why are politics not an exception? the very WORD "politics" implies majoritarianism.

g

genessa Level 8 June 10, 2019
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