Agnostic.com
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My starting premise on religion

I do not believe in God.

My starting premise on religion is a quote from Sophocles - "Reason is God's crowning gift to mankind." I love the dichotomy this quote forces us to consider. Think about it: Reason - THE ultimate gift to us, from God! I believe it is reasonable to believe that he would expect us to develop and use this 'gift' to our maximum potential.

If God created us, and did so in his image, wouldn't he expect us to be all we can be? Man's fundamental distinction from other life forms on this earth, is that he is a rational being - that is, he is capable of reasoning, of rational thought. Other animals are able to sense, and perceive, but they do not have the ability to think, to integrate and discriminate , to form concepts, to develop abstract thoughts.

If God created us, I believe he would expect us to use our minds to the fullest and not accept anything on faith alone.

Reason tells us that absolute truths DO exist. We can recognize them because they Correspond to Reality, that is - things exist or they don't. Ideas, although important, are not reality in this sense. They are the "means by which" we know reality. Absolute Truths are also Self Evident (it is impossible to consider their opposite, i.e., "a whole is the sum of its parts" ); they are Universal (true for everyone, if they are true for one); Global (there are no cultural, geographical or ethnic boundaries); Timeless (true now if ever true and always will be true; and Absolute (there are no degrees of Truth).

There are however, 'degrees' of knowledge - starting with self-evident truths but also including merely evident truths (those that require evidence & reason to defend them). Knowledge also includes opinions - in the strong sense of knowledge at one extreme, and opinions in the weak sense of knowledge, at the other extreme.

Leaps of faith (whether about religion, politics, economics or ethics... whatever) are most often, opinions - without evidence, and often without serious thought (reason) to back them up. Hence my reluctance to accept the premises that most organized religions are founded upon, and even the values that they espouse. Although I would concede that most religious values can often find reasoned justification for why they are correct values (often the test of tradition and culture are the reasons). But not all values are supported by reason. Otherwise, Christian values would find common ground with Muslim, Jewish, Seventh Day Adventist, and so many other 'varieties' of religious based values.

To accept ANYTHING on the basis of faith alone (that is, with total disregard for rational thought) seems contradictory to the unique gift that we humans have.

What's more, 'fundamentalism' in religion, whether Muslim or Christian (or any other), is dangerous and deadly, as we have seen.  Sadly, (I believe) mainstream or moderate religion enables and legitimizes all other religions, including fundamentalism.  It is also scary (here in the U.S.) that the Southern Baptist (THE Christian fundamentalists) have been so successful in dominating our political system, with their extremely competent and powerful organization.  They have even succeeded in uniting with many Catholics and (although contrary to the “more liberal views of the majority of lay American Catholics)... “includes nearly every bishop and cardinal in the United States.”  These Catholics believe that “there can be no personal morality, and no legitimate political system, that does not acknowledge God as the ultimate authority” [from “The Age of American Unreason].  And consider that John G. Roberts and Samuel A. Alito are Catholics, chosen by George W. Bush for the Supreme Court.  The alignment of fundamentalists with catholics is only one example of [previously?] mainline religion legitimizing the intolerance of fundamentalist religion.

My other concern is, if I were to consider becoming a person of 'faith' - who's god would I worship?  And which bible (of the more than 3,000 (Christian) bibles - all with their own interpretations)) would I choose [and, which of the two stories of Genesis, would I accept?]... and WHY?   Perhaps the Mormon's are 'right' with their beliefs, or the Jehovah's Witness, or Quakers, Methodists, Unitarian's, Episcopalians... or perhaps I should simply 'pick and choose' from each and form my own religion (which is how most (all?) religions have been formed)?  And who is to say that the Fundamentalists are wrong?  After all, they now outnumber Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and members of the Church of Christ (those religions that 'used' to be considered 'mainline,'😉 - combined!  Rigid and literal belief in the 'Old Testament' is common to many religions, including the Souther Baptist "Christians," the Muslims, the Jews, and to some extent, Catholics. 

And consider the adverse effect of religion on education:  40% percent of Americans believe in 'creationism,' which means that they disregard the "scientific method" that supports evolution (and has also given us medicine, technology, et. al.).  They choose to believe that evolution is "just a theory," implying that it is therefore merely someone's opinion - without an understanding that the scientific method is predicated on "gathering observable,empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning... [and] the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses" [from wikipedia] via peer review [using our 'gift' of reason!].  Yes, most theories only approximate absolute truth... never quite reaching confirmation - it is an ongoing process.  But that is a long way from 'opinion.'  And, unlike "creationism," - is not based merely on 'faith' (what a person 'wants' to believe?).

Even more scary than the adverse effect on education is the effect on our laws:  60% of white evangelical Christians believe that the Bible should shape U.S. law.  53% of Black Protestants agree but only 16% of Protestants, 23% of Catholics and 7% of those identifying themselves as secularists [from 2006 research by the Pew Forum].  The fact that 60% believe the Bible should shape our laws suggest too, that they belong to, or agree with, the authoritarian side of evangelical Christians - i.e, 'fundamentalists as represented by James Dobson's Focus on the Family and Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition - that is: hardcore fundamentalists (the ones that outnumber all other's, combined!) and the ones that state (and have organized to do so) that they want to remake American society in THEIR biblical image!!  So-called "Dominionists."

The question about a belief in God is a different question than that of a belief in Christianity or any other particular 'faith.' For me, the philosophical question of 'First Cause' (seems to) prove that God exists. EVERYTHING has a cause and if you trace the cause of a thing back to its source, and that thing to its source, and so on, there seems to be only one (philosophical) conclusion, even though reason [so far] does not provide any evidence that we can accept this as an absolute truth, a truth in the strong sense, or even an opinion in the strong sense. I therefore prefer to err, if indeed it is an error, on the side that demands absolute evidence on such an important matter.

Your thoughts?

Primary sources:
Aristotle (works of)
St. Thomas Aquinas (works of)
Ten Philosophical Mistakes by Mortimer J. Adler
Six Great Ideas by Mortimer Jerome Adler
The Age of American Unreason (Vintage) by Susan Jacoby
Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris
[theocracywatch.org]

SeekingWisdom 6 Dec 18
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There is an opinion that the placing of reason on high has put us on the road to nihilism since the Axial Age. When it has been idolised in history, it has manifested itself in tyranny. I would argue for a better balance between reason and intuition, something the Eastern part of the world always seemed to acknowledge.

brentan Level 8 Dec 19, 2019

I am curious to know your source(s)? for the "opinion that the placing of reason on high has put us on the road to nihilism ." My guess is that it comes from the so-called "Modern Era" and is a consequence of the thinking of "philosophers" such as Marx, Nietzsche and others who were influenced by the confused thinking of Kant, of the 18th century.

My source for that comment is John Vervaeke, who lists his sources on his videos.

0

Before we unpack the rest of your post, what is the reference for the Sophocles quote please.

Thanks

Geoffrey51 Level 8 Dec 18, 2019

“Reason is God's crowning gift to man, and you are right
To warn me against losing mine. I cannot say—
I hope that I shall never want to say!— that you
Have reasoned badly. Yet there are other men
Who can reason, too; and their opinions might be helpful.
You are not in a position to know everything
That people say or do, or what they feel:
Your temper terrifies them—everyone
Will tell you only what you like to hear.”
― Sophocles, The Oedipus Cycle: Oedipus Rex, Oedipus at Colonus, Antigone

@SeekingWisdom it is necessary to acknowledge that Sophocles was an adherent and follower of the Athenian gods and his audience would not have embraced a monotheistic religion

The use of the term ‘God’ is the manner of translation. Although it is relevant to a Westernised translation it can be problematic if taken literally in a Sophoclean context.

@Geoffrey51 I agree, to both points. Of course, it is also true that the use of the term 'God' is problematic for whatever era of monotheistic societies we might be talking about as well. This understanding during the Roman era was quite different than during the middle ages, or the Enlightenment, et. al., or today. My fascination with this quote, and therefore my use of it, is to point out the dichotomy between reason and religion. Man cannot get to 'God' by using reason so of course,' reason' is not a gift from any god or any interpretation of what God means to individuals, of any era.

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