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By the way, the theory that the part in the 2A where it says well regulated means for the Government to be able to regulate with laws, has been debunked.-
"Being my previous post in this group was on the controversial topic of abortion rights, time now for..."

Who do you suppose diehard gun control activists simply wish to totally do away with the 2A? Which would not be a necessary move assuming what they think the phrase well regulated really means what they think it means, and they would just be able to get their cockamamie new laws passed without incident. The term "militia" also doesn't mean what the gun control crowd thinks it means. So once the point that I linked to above is made clear and for all to see, the gun control crowd's argument for a well regulated militia falls apart, and the argument swings in favor of the gun rights side. That conclusion is strictly looking at it from an independent perspective and is no mere opinion, after carefully reviewing the evidence and historical context, and if said evidence would have suggested otherwise then I could certainly admit that my own stance on the matter might need to be modified then at that point. So what else have you got?

SpikeTalon Level 9 Dec 11, 2022

@Garban By the end of this month I might have enough monthly speed data left over in order to watch Giffords documentary, and if I do get a chance to watch it I could give some input afterwards.

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Those who are against any form of authoritarianism aren't going to back down either...

Suggesting and or promoting bans/restrictions on constitutional rights is only putting a bandage on the problem, as the root cause of said problem would still exist at the end of the day. Funny how Democrats complain about Republicans when they pull similar tricks attempting to curb certain rights, and yet the Democrats turn around and do more of the same thing that they supposedly claim to be fighting against, and I must question where exactly does society as a whole gain anything meaningful?

I grew up in the late 1980s into the 90s, and the schools I went to back then didn't even lock their doors, and yet no one worried about school shootings. Many people back then owned high-powered rifles with high-capacity magazines, especially here in Pennsylvania with our hunting culture, yet mass shootings were rare back then. What changed since then, and why have things changed for the worse? You can't blame that on the guns, as such weapons were in private hands for decades and yet mass shootings were not a concern.

Hey Giffords (and you too Garban), how's about actually trying to tackle the real problem plaguing our society, namely destructive addictions to drugs and an increase in those afflicted with mental illnesses, whose of which addictions or mental health have and continue to play a part in influencing mass shooting incidents. Here are a few good sources to read regarding Steve Scalise's take on the gun debate, as he was critically injured in a shooting incident just like Giffords was, except the difference between those two politicians is that the former is actually interested in getting to the root of the problem in an effort to curb such violent behaviors while the latter can only mop around and complain and suggest more authoritarian laws that won't really change a thing for the better. Scalise is right and far more rational on that topic than Giffords could ever hope to be, and when logic and reasoning don't win out we as a whole suffer and lose.-
[scalise.house.gov]

[thehill.com]

I'll say this yet again... the Government who becomes powerful enough to enact serious restrictions (or bans) on gun rights, can eventually turn around and attack other important rights that of which you care about and defend (like LGBT and reproductive rights). You know not the dangerous crap the anti-gun rights crowd are promoting, the can of worms you are opening...

The kicker in all of this is, those promoting more gun control measures also claim to be liberal, and yet there's nothing genuinely liberal about what they are pushing there. Actual liberals don't seek to use laws (more of the same) against others in which to curb their rights nor do they seek to use a show of force, that's the social conservatives that pull that crap off with trying to restrict constitutional rights. Some gun control advocate out there needs to rationally explain to me how they could logically justify being a so-called liberal and simultaneously support restrictive laws (aka, social conservatism)??? Someone who fully supports all rights for everyone regardless of personal convictions and minus supporting needless laws which would give the Government more power (someone like me), are the real liberals. Small wonder why our politics have become so polarized.

SpikeTalon Level 9 Nov 21, 2022

@Garban Haha triggered, I see what you did there. Not triggered though Garban, not even close, more like baffled, baffled that anyone could be so clueless as to honestly believe that more laws is the longterm solution to the problem. Giffords was hardly the only politician who had ever suffered getting struck by a bullet(s), and I'm just curious... do you also feel sympathy for Scalise who was also seriously injured? Somehow I rather doubt it, because Scalise took a different course afterwards unlike Giffords, the latter of which took the opportunist path to exploit her own personal tragedy in order to advance her own personal agenda based on a vendetta. Sounds rather selfish to me.

I really really would like the chance to get to ask in person someone like Giffords that if she truly believes more laws restricting or even banning abortion procedures would not curb every abortion then what on Earth would make her believe more laws restricting gun/gun accessory ownership would ever work? I'm sure any replies I'd receive from her would be asinine and incoherent.

Yes I know they're gun owners... which makes their stance all the more contradicting. Sure would like the opportunity to ask Giffords what she would have thought of someone like my late friend Sgt Ashly Moyer who got killed in Iraq in 2007, killed in action defending every American's individual rights. Giffords survived her injuries no doubt due to excellent medical attention and coverage for politicians, while my friend was not nearly as fortunate having been horribly killed by a roadside bomb. I wonder what that must feel like going around exploiting a personal tragedy in an effort to curb certain other rights, while there are/have been many others out there who had paid the ultimate price in order to ensure that all American's rights are upheld. I'm not fooled by opportunist politicians like Giffords no more than I am by opportunist businessmen like Trump, and if you allow yourself to be swayed by the clever words of such opportunists then good for you I say.

Someone who supports all of these gun control measures still needs to rationally and logically explain to me how they could simultaneously claim to be liberal, which all sounds like a blatant contradiction to me as there's nothing truly liberal about agreeing with such authoritarian measures. So far no one in this group had taken me up on that query, and gee whiz I wonder why that is? Could be because deep down inside they realize their ways on that matter are indeed authoritarian in nature and not liberal, but cannot bring themselves to say that much publicly though. I suspect in private a good number of the gun control activists know their cause is slanted and based largely upon how they feel emotionally, and their suggestions aren't exactly logical. I've chatted in private with a few such individuals on this site, and won't mention their names here, but suffice to say there are some gun control activists among us who do realize the gun control stance is hardly an honest endeavor like some make it out to be.

All that said, thank you for at least responding, and that is how you get a conversation going, you know? Maybe your new nickname on this site should be "Garban the generous", and that's being quite generous there bestowing such a title on you, lol. Later.

@Garban No, I meant Giffords actions were selfish compared to Scalise, the latter of whom realized that the true problem we face lies in human beings who have issues with varying addictions and those who get caught up in gangs that are violent-prone along with the current system failing too many kids by allowing them to just drop out of school on a whim. Quite different compared to Gifford's stance, being she is putting the blame on inanimate objects and not focusing on the direct problem, which in my opinion is akin to merely putting a bandage on the problem. Never meant you were selfish, and if I ever had any strong reason to believe that you were a selfish person I probably would ignore your posts and not comment on them like I still do.

As for watching that documentary, while I won't totally rule out ever watching it, all the same I'm in no hurry as I've got a good idea as to what to expect to hear/see, and need I remind you that at one point I was on the side of more gun control, so I am quite familiar with their tactics and propaganda. Perhaps one time when I am out and about and have some spare time and there's WiFi access, I may look up that documentary on Hulu and download it to my android to watch later. Maybe...

As for giving the kiddies and club goers a sporting chance... these maniacs who are randomly shooting up schools and bars and shopping malls are not sportsmen, they are cold-blooded killers with pretty much nothing else left to lose. They aren't hunting, they are on extermination sprees, to kill as many as possible, which serves a different albeit evil purpose than mere hunting. Besides, how would your laws limiting magazine capacity work with those who either circumvent the system by purchasing weapons on the black market or who 3D print their own magazines? Neverminding the fact of there being thousands of high capacity magazines already privately owned, and what would we do about those? Turn otherwise law abiding gun owners into criminals if they refuse to turn those magazines in? How would such a scenario honestly be considered any sort of genuine progress?

As for safety classes/protocol etc, I'm not against teaching gun safety per se, but you'll need to be a bit more specific on that... are we talking just something like a safety class first in order to carry or something that has to do with passing laws on how every gun owner needs to handle their weapons in their own home etc? If safety is your concern there and that you wish for me to go along with all of that, fair enough, but if safety is the thing then I'm also going to stop fighting against invasive laws regarding abortion procedures too, as any medical procedure carries risk so if some politicians want to impose more safety measures such as waiting periods/hospital admissions/safety training for doctors etc that would all sound reasonable to me then if safety is the direct concern. Can't say that I'd be in favor of that though, but think you get the point I'm trying to make.

A big part of that problem I think starts with one's education, and kids that don't receive a decent education and drop out are more likely to indulge in a life of gangs and crime and addictions, which in turn is bad for society as a whole. The high-capacity gun magazines are not the problem, as prior to twenty or so years ago many gun owners possessed them and yet back then there weren't mass shootings like nowadays, and prior to 1986 fully automatics were legal. So what exactly changed in the past two decades? That's the question we should be asking, because gun availability in the US is pretty much the same as it was back then, so you can't blame the guns. Political polarization these days is a big part of the problem too, and it's no mere coincidence this rise in violent crime while politics have become a bone of contention among many of our fellow Americans. If we were to focus more on improving the education system, along with making sure mental health services are accessible to all who need it, and maybe perhaps learn to get along better with each other regardless of differing political views, you would see violent crimes involving guns go down considerably. Far too many out there have sadly concluded they have nothing left to live for, there's nothing in society left worth fighting for or getting excited over anymore, and that's all been a recipe for disaster so far. People like Giffords don't talk nearly enough about issues like that, and instead suggest more laws of the same which have repeatedly failed us, and that's what I take issue with. Nevermind sane gun owners like me who may own some of those high-capacity magazines, people like me aren't denying the kids and barhops a "sporting chance", the current system in place along with heavily divided politics are denying average people a sporting chance to live out a decent and prosperous existence, and that my friend is the real existential threat to all of society.

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I know the story but this might be quite a movie.

DenoPenno Level 9 Nov 20, 2022

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