I'm an ex-muslim atheist born in the UK, when it comes to politics I'm a centrist liberal, but what I can't stand is that some liberals have bought into the idea that criticisms of islam is bigotry, are you one of these people, if so please say why in the comment
There's a certain kind of liberal who loves to be seen to oppose anything that could possibly be seen as islamaphobic, even at a stretch, not because they have any interest in defending Islam itself but because they feel it portrays the right image of themselves.In practice, they're aligning themselves with the extreme cultural sensitivity of many Islamic countries, strongly defending anything they perceive as criticism. They're the same kind of people who see "baa baa black sheep" as racist.
I don't think I am one of 'those people' but when i hear/see/critisism of Islam, Judaism etc I'm wary and very curious as to whose doing it and why.
All too often critisism/condemnation is used to fuel the fires of ignorance and hatred. For example, a state that is nominally muslim (perhaps in the way that the British state is Christian) will take some kind of action. That can very quickly become 'the Muslims did....'
Think of what the Israeli state is doing in Palestine and how that gets talked about as though 'the jews' are doing it
There are many groups on all sides that have a vested interest in whipping up hatred.
PLUS theres a lot to be said for sorting out your own back yard first. for example, there certainly are groups of men of culturally muslim origins that have been praying on vulnerable children in Britain. Its a proven fact and obviously completely shocking and wrong. I would applaud anyone within the muslim community seeking to tackle this.
HOWEVER it is insignificant compared to the organised and systematic abuse of children that has been going on for decades within the various christian organisations
I recently read 'Islam and the future of tolerance' by Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz. Maajid refers to these people as the regressive left. Criticism of people is not the same as criticism of ideas, and to anyone (muslim or otherwise) who says that criticising islam is racist/Islamophobic, then I have to strongly disagree with them, and would happily debate anyone who wished to have that converstion
It must seem particularly absurd to someone who has grown up with the all the good and all the bad that comes with a culture and faith. I think criticism of Islam is important, but must be done from the perspective of actually understanding it. Many arrogantly and ignorantly rail against Muslims as individuals, and indeed often don't bother check that those individuals are even Muslim. Maryam Namazie has made a distinction between what she terms "Islamophobia" and "Muslimophobia". She is also ex-Muslim and I really respect what she has to say much of the time. I try to make this distinction every time I talk about my opposition to religion, and that this includes Islam.
It's good that you feel able to speak out against the religion which is so much part of your culture. i think that is the hardest thing for for people brought up in a very 'tight' traditional religion whether they are jews, muslims, hindus, or extreme christians. I am sure there are many muslims who have no genuine religious beliefs but it is very hard to come out against your entire culture. I criticise all relgions - I think they are poisonous and dangerous and i refuse to be silenced by people who conflate religion and nationality.
No it is not bigotry, just like in this current labour party row, criticizing Israel is not anti-Semitic.
However having been trapped in a library in 1988 by a rampaging mob of British Muslims screaming "Rushdie, Rushdie, give us Rushdie" outside and demanding every copy of the Satanic Verses should be given to them so they could publicly burn them, or else the would burn down the library and everyone and everything in it, I am a little cautious about criticizing the beliefs of the insane to their faces, especially when there are about 500 of them.
Still it did not stop me yelling out of the window
"He's not here, try next door"
@GodlessWahid666 Corbyn is not a racist in any form, but he is also not strong enough to bring socialism back in to play as a major factor in the Labour Party, he is a nice man and in dog eat dog politics that is not enough if he were thirty years younger Dennis Skinner might have been the man.
I am not familiar enough with the work of Owen Jones to have an opinion, sorry.
Posted by MoravianTory Corruption ?
Posted by MoravianA Tory Christmas carol
Posted by MoravianAny takers
Posted by MattHardyA Boris promise is just a lie that hasn't happened yet. Whatever Sue Grey says, no way is Boris going to admit he lied and resign.
Posted by MoravianJacob Rees Mogg is one of my least favourite people in the world.
Posted by MoravianBoris certainly has his finger on the pulse
Posted by webspider555No trump to take the spotlight off him now
Posted by MannanWhat do you think.....?hahaha
Posted by McflewsterEVERY BORIS SPEECH [agnostic.com]
Posted by MoravianPolitics in the UK
Posted by webspider555All set to go well with the vaccination roll out
Posted by webspider555Vaccine already in production
Posted by webspider555If Boris is mentioned then I cannot rule out it being true
Posted by HawkeyeNew to this group, thanks for having me :) Thought I would share something that has had my poor wee atheist brain turning for a few days (the article is a few days old).
Posted by McflewsterWhere Religion ,Monarchy and Private Education meet. Taken from the Book "BOY" by Roald Dahl "Tales of Childhood" [agnostic.com]
Posted by webspider555I’m beginning to wonder whether our government is just incompetent or are all these things happening just to get us in a rage arguing amongst ourselves.