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The first miracle that Jesus performs should show everyone exactly what Jesus' ministry really promotes, taking life and killing it! How can the bible claim that getting drunk leads to sin and that serving drunks is helping people sin, and then say that Jesus is the son of god after he turns water into wine? The bible says that after they had drank all the wine at a wedding, Jesus filled twelve barrels of water and turned it into the best wine ever tasted. If they had already drank all the wine they had for the wedding then chances are that someone in the party was already drunk. We know this because the bible says they were "merry", or feeling good! If Jesus gives wine to even one drunk person then he is already setting that person up to sin, which would be a sin also!

IpraiseMYSELF 6 June 1
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You certainly have a point, though when I have tried this argument, Christians argue that wine back then was watered down because it had to be, as people drank it all the time. Water was not purified like it is today and was often full of bacteria. When sailors went to sea they took kegs of beer, wine, brandy or grog with them, not water. Water was too dangerous. Arguing that feeling merry was the same as being drunk didn't get me anywhere either.

Heraclitus Level 8 June 7, 2018

I have also heard that wine was very expensive and that when Jesus supposedly did this miracle it was giving the family a fortune as a wedding gift! I think that is probably true that wine was for the rich in that time and the poor did not have much of it. The problem is that now Jesus makes himself a hypocrite and a liar when he later tells everyone that only the poor can enter the kingdom of heaven. By his own words and actions he literally condemns this family to hell by making them rich. Then he tells people he is the only way to come to the father in heaven. Can you see the hypocrisy?

@IpraiseMYSELF Yes, if your assumption that wine was very expensive back then is true. I would be interested in what your source is for that as I have not heard that before. I can believe that very good wine back then was expensive back then, as it is now. But, it does not make sense to me that all wine back then was very expensive since anyone can make wine very easily and very cheaply out of fermented grapes, and grapes grow all over the world.

@Heraclitus The knowledge of making wine was not something you could just look up on the internet like you can today. Furthermore there is no assumption, it is a fact that the rich had wine and the poor traveled for miles to wells in order to get water. Nice try though!



@Heraclitus oh look, something on the internet! So where does it say that the poor had wine and that it was not expensive?


Jesus didn't preformed any miracle. he never lived. or is that the wrong answer for this group? sorry if it is.

MissaDixon Level 7 June 1, 2018

All answers are acceptable for this group. Many answers I give will be trying to disprove Christianity to or in front of Christian believers therefore we tend to try and get on their stupidity level in order to show them how messed up their religion really is. Is there a possibility that Jesus never lived of course there is and that is a very valid argument. unfortunately you will never persuade a Christian that their savior did not exist. when we show them facts about their religion that do not make sense, or that are just hateful like, (slavery) they may not admit it but deep down inside they know their religion is false! Later when the church pisses them off the chances of them leaving the religion are now higher because we have opened that door with reason. The less believers they have, the less donations they get and the less power they have in our government!

@IpraiseMYSELF I almost got arrested two days ago because so poor trumpie said she go over being rapped and so would her granddaughter. GRRRRRR


There's a good case for Jesus being the one who was pissed.
Would you shout down your own moher and call her "woman" at a public event if you were sober?

And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?
John 2:1-5

Good observation, Jesus got pissed a few times didn't he! Also in the ten commandments it clearly states to obey your mother and father. Therefore you have just pointed out another sin of Jesus who Christians claim to be a sinless sacrifice.


Why would a loving god set their child up to sin only to save them from sin in the end? Regardless of whether Jesus served drunk people or not the fact is that he turns life giving water into life taking alcohol. Now I do not want people to think that I am against alcohol because I am not, but when talking to a Christian it is nice to be able to use their beliefs against them and that is what we need to keep in mind here! Without water it is a fact that your body can not and will not function, and it is also a fact that alcohol kills people every day. So why would god take something that gives you life (water) and turn it into something that kills people (alcohol)? This is the first miracle Jesus supposedly did, which tells us exactly what his ministry is all about, taking life and killing it. Later on in his ministry Jesus admits his true calling and tells his followers to follow him to death!

Jesus states to give everything you have to the poor and pick up your CROSS, and follow me!Can Jesus be any clearer, as a Christian you must die for your religion or you are not a Christian at all and you will burn in hell. Maybe that's why Jesus states that only a few will enter the kingdom of heaven because over ninety percent of Christians will never die for their religion! The fact remains that Jesus is asking all of his followers to kill their own lives, like he did, to save their souls from eternal hell, a place that Jesus and his father are the creators of! So if you do not kill yourself now, then god will torture you for eternity. This is what the Christian god calls love. Jesus most definitely takes life and kills it!

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